DIY tattoo risk
November 13, 2019 7:37 AM Subscribe
My young adult kid (18) is a getting a tattoo at the home of a tattoo artist in our town who evidently has done tattooing (stick and poke) on my kid's friend and others they know. I'm filled with worry.
I cannot "stop" my kid from doing this anymore, and to be honest many risks they take are too great for my own comfort that do not seem to faze others.
What I have done: sent them a bunch of links to articles about the risks of infection and bad ink etc
Good thing: we know from others the artist will open a new needle.
That doesn't mean the artist won't put it down on their couch in the middle or that they won't be using old ink from someone else or ink from some off brand cheap source. I'm very worried.
How worried should I be?
Not helpful: telling me to mind my own business unless you're a parent.
Also not helpful: telling my kid to ask the artist all kinds of questions bc my kid will not do so.
I guess I want to hear whether this is, in fact, SO NORMAL EVERYONE DOES IT etc etc which is what I'm hearing from my teenager.
I cannot "stop" my kid from doing this anymore, and to be honest many risks they take are too great for my own comfort that do not seem to faze others.
What I have done: sent them a bunch of links to articles about the risks of infection and bad ink etc
Good thing: we know from others the artist will open a new needle.
That doesn't mean the artist won't put it down on their couch in the middle or that they won't be using old ink from someone else or ink from some off brand cheap source. I'm very worried.
How worried should I be?
Not helpful: telling me to mind my own business unless you're a parent.
Also not helpful: telling my kid to ask the artist all kinds of questions bc my kid will not do so.
I guess I want to hear whether this is, in fact, SO NORMAL EVERYONE DOES IT etc etc which is what I'm hearing from my teenager.
It's impossible to know if the tattoo artist is clean enough.
Alternative: offer to pay for the difference between this home-brew BS and getting the tattoo in a proper shop.
posted by notsnot at 7:51 AM on November 13, 2019 [37 favorites]
Alternative: offer to pay for the difference between this home-brew BS and getting the tattoo in a proper shop.
posted by notsnot at 7:51 AM on November 13, 2019 [37 favorites]
I got one of my 3 tattoos at a "tattoo party", where the artist was sketching the tattoos and another guy was actually doing the tattooing (i guess so they could both get experience/make some money?). Was this a good idea? Nope. Did anything happen to me? Also nope.
The primary allure of this was that it was suuuuper cheap compared to a traditional tattoo shop, and tbh the work was really high caliber compared to the ones I paid a lot more money for.
So if you really don't want your kid to do this, figure out what the allure is and make it more attractive to do it somewhere else. If it's money, pay. If it's artistic quality, work with your kid to find a shop with the same vibe and pay. I'm betting that throwing money at this is the only way to get what you want.
posted by DoubleLune at 7:53 AM on November 13, 2019 [9 favorites]
The primary allure of this was that it was suuuuper cheap compared to a traditional tattoo shop, and tbh the work was really high caliber compared to the ones I paid a lot more money for.
So if you really don't want your kid to do this, figure out what the allure is and make it more attractive to do it somewhere else. If it's money, pay. If it's artistic quality, work with your kid to find a shop with the same vibe and pay. I'm betting that throwing money at this is the only way to get what you want.
posted by DoubleLune at 7:53 AM on November 13, 2019 [9 favorites]
I'm exactly in the same state komara is in re: my tattoos. (And, frankly, their entire last paragraph, which I heartily co-sign.) The only exception I can think is maybe if the artist were a very good friend who I trusted deeply, and knew well enough to know that everything would be extremely clean and new and that they had shop-level sanitary practices in their home. I might possibly maybe consider it then. This...does not really sound like the case.
Honestly, it sounds like your kid is set on being a dumbshit about this, as teenagers are wont to do. I'm sorry, it sucks, and yes, you're right to worry. I'm sorry I don't know the words to get them to think about what they're actually doing; the only thing I can think of is making sure they do know to come to you if their tattoo starts going weird, possibly infected, etc. (Of course they won't know what a weird healing is necessarily because it sounds like their first and now I'm just annoyed on your behalf all over again. Ask them how it's healing! A lot! I guess?)
(Also, there are artists in shops doing stick and poke now, if its the medium that really pulls them. But I suspect its the setting more than anything else, so to speak.)
posted by kalimac at 7:55 AM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
Honestly, it sounds like your kid is set on being a dumbshit about this, as teenagers are wont to do. I'm sorry, it sucks, and yes, you're right to worry. I'm sorry I don't know the words to get them to think about what they're actually doing; the only thing I can think of is making sure they do know to come to you if their tattoo starts going weird, possibly infected, etc. (Of course they won't know what a weird healing is necessarily because it sounds like their first and now I'm just annoyed on your behalf all over again. Ask them how it's healing! A lot! I guess?)
(Also, there are artists in shops doing stick and poke now, if its the medium that really pulls them. But I suspect its the setting more than anything else, so to speak.)
posted by kalimac at 7:55 AM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
Can you get your kid to at least get a hepatitis vaccine and tetanus booster first? You would probably feel better.
posted by windykites at 7:56 AM on November 13, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by windykites at 7:56 AM on November 13, 2019 [6 favorites]
I have had many friends who did tattoos and piercings at their home, or at the recipients home. They have always been very aware of the risk and worked in a sanitary manner taking the necessary precautions. I have never heard of anyone getting an infection. A tattoo shop is not necessarily cleaner then a home - for me it has to do more with the process then the location.
posted by pilot pirx at 7:58 AM on November 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by pilot pirx at 7:58 AM on November 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. FYI This is not about $ it's about this is the thing to do now that lame old people like me are going to the cool tattoo shops I guess. (Also it's not their first tattoo just their first DIY one)
posted by nantucket at 8:00 AM on November 13, 2019
posted by nantucket at 8:00 AM on November 13, 2019
Best answer: "But I suspect its the setting more than anything else, so to speak."
Same. I got uncharacteristically excited recently when a friend of mine and I decided, more or less on a whim, to get tattoos at the same time. I mean we're both in our 40s, this was nowhere near our first for either of us, and it's not like we got matching tattoos or anything. But it was the whole, "Hell yes we have nothing else to do right now, let's go get some more ink."
And applying that to how I was when I was 18? I would have been out of my mind at the prospect of going to a place and getting a tattoo from the same guy as my friend, especially if (or because) the venue had an underground or non-mainstream vibe to it. It wouldn't have mattered if my parents tried to throw money at me getting a tattoo from a different person at a different studio - that wouldn't have been the thing I wanted. When I wrote my initial comment I wasn't thinking from your kid's perspective but yeah, if I were them I doubt there's anything you could do to dissuade me. Sounds like it's not the tattoo itself, it's the gestalt.
So I'll agree with the sentiment above about just checking in on your kid's health as it heals.
posted by komara at 8:18 AM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
Same. I got uncharacteristically excited recently when a friend of mine and I decided, more or less on a whim, to get tattoos at the same time. I mean we're both in our 40s, this was nowhere near our first for either of us, and it's not like we got matching tattoos or anything. But it was the whole, "Hell yes we have nothing else to do right now, let's go get some more ink."
And applying that to how I was when I was 18? I would have been out of my mind at the prospect of going to a place and getting a tattoo from the same guy as my friend, especially if (or because) the venue had an underground or non-mainstream vibe to it. It wouldn't have mattered if my parents tried to throw money at me getting a tattoo from a different person at a different studio - that wouldn't have been the thing I wanted. When I wrote my initial comment I wasn't thinking from your kid's perspective but yeah, if I were them I doubt there's anything you could do to dissuade me. Sounds like it's not the tattoo itself, it's the gestalt.
So I'll agree with the sentiment above about just checking in on your kid's health as it heals.
posted by komara at 8:18 AM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
like pilot pirx i know many people who've done DIY tattooing and piercing.
tattoo shops are clean because they're regulated and shops and tattoo artists get licensed; stick and pokes are risky because there isn't this risk of regulation. this does NOT mean that a licensed shop is definitely clean, nor does it mean that somebody doing stick and pokes can't take reasonable precautions that limit the likelihood of infection.
if i were in your boots i'd have a conversation with my kid about why i was worried, say that i wasn't going to stop them, but that i'd hope that they'd do research and take precautions because really the adult thing to do is not to try to eliminate all risk but to try to manage it thoughtfully.
posted by entropone at 8:19 AM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
tattoo shops are clean because they're regulated and shops and tattoo artists get licensed; stick and pokes are risky because there isn't this risk of regulation. this does NOT mean that a licensed shop is definitely clean, nor does it mean that somebody doing stick and pokes can't take reasonable precautions that limit the likelihood of infection.
if i were in your boots i'd have a conversation with my kid about why i was worried, say that i wasn't going to stop them, but that i'd hope that they'd do research and take precautions because really the adult thing to do is not to try to eliminate all risk but to try to manage it thoughtfully.
posted by entropone at 8:19 AM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I know SO MANY people who have homemade stick and poke tattoos, it's very common among my... community/subculture or whatever. Some of these tattoos were planned and done by people with experience and an awareness of sanitation, some were impulse jailhouse-style things done with pen ink and a safety pin by drunk friends. Some people I know have just one or two, some have extensive tattoos that are all stick and pokes at home because they prefer that vibe. I know it's just anecdata, but I've never heard of anyone having health issues with these tattoos.
The only suggestion from the above that I think will actually be effective is the hep and tetanus vaccines (which are a good idea regardless, if they haven't already had them) and offering to get them antibiotics if it becomes infected (so they don't try and hide the infection from you until it becomes very serious, which I can definitely see a teenager doing).
Serious conversations are going to probably be ignored, sorry.
posted by 100kb at 8:33 AM on November 13, 2019 [10 favorites]
The only suggestion from the above that I think will actually be effective is the hep and tetanus vaccines (which are a good idea regardless, if they haven't already had them) and offering to get them antibiotics if it becomes infected (so they don't try and hide the infection from you until it becomes very serious, which I can definitely see a teenager doing).
Serious conversations are going to probably be ignored, sorry.
posted by 100kb at 8:33 AM on November 13, 2019 [10 favorites]
Best answer: I know lots of people with stick and pokes, probably done less "professionally" than this one will be. Some of them are, in fact, really good - the tattoo-er worked with the nature of the medium and had a steady hand and good eye.
Mainly I'd talk to your kid about keeping a very close eye on it and telling you right away if it looks inflamed, assuming your kid is not immunocompromised in some way.
Amateur tattoos are not as outre as they seem to middle class people who have mostly gotten into tattoos in the last ten years when tattooing has been substantially professionalized, so while that doesn't mean that flailing away with a tattoo gun that you got on eBay is a fantastic idea, it does mean that lots of people do this and it's usually fine.
posted by Frowner at 8:39 AM on November 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
Mainly I'd talk to your kid about keeping a very close eye on it and telling you right away if it looks inflamed, assuming your kid is not immunocompromised in some way.
Amateur tattoos are not as outre as they seem to middle class people who have mostly gotten into tattoos in the last ten years when tattooing has been substantially professionalized, so while that doesn't mean that flailing away with a tattoo gun that you got on eBay is a fantastic idea, it does mean that lots of people do this and it's usually fine.
posted by Frowner at 8:39 AM on November 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
I have two stick and poke tattoos that I got from a non-tattoo-artist drunk friend, when I was also drunk, at about your son's age. I never had any problems, and I don't necessarily regret them - they make for great stories. I also know a lot of people who do at-home tattooing from friends, both with guns and with needles, and haven't heard any horror stories. We all may be lucky; it's all anecdata. My first professional tattoo, which I got the same year, happened in what I can see in retrospect was a horrifyingly gross shop (they were literally shutting down that day and squeezed me in). No infection or disease, but again I think I was lucky - I healed terribly, and went through some panicked blood tests afterward when I realized how dumb I was.
All my tattoos as an adult are from the same guy, as he's moved between three different shops over the last decade. His setup is pristine, I never have issues with healing, and I'd never do this another way. But I'm an old.
So yeah, nthing hep and tetanus if he's willing, otherwise *shrug* it's a stupid choice, but yeah, I think it's a stupid choice a lot of people made and will keep making.
posted by okayokayigive at 8:56 AM on November 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
All my tattoos as an adult are from the same guy, as he's moved between three different shops over the last decade. His setup is pristine, I never have issues with healing, and I'd never do this another way. But I'm an old.
So yeah, nthing hep and tetanus if he's willing, otherwise *shrug* it's a stupid choice, but yeah, I think it's a stupid choice a lot of people made and will keep making.
posted by okayokayigive at 8:56 AM on November 13, 2019 [2 favorites]
FYI This is not about $ it's about this is the thing to do now that lame old people like me are going to the cool tattoo shops I guess.
A lot of people (not just The Kids, but definitely also The Kids) do like the intimacy and the simplicity/DIY aesthetic of the non-shop stick-and-poke. Heck, I have plenty of "professional" tattoos, but I dig them too. There are professional artists who work out of their homes and use sterile/single-use stick-and-poke kits; not sure if this is the kind of artist kid in question will be visiting, but such artists exist for sure (they mostly find clients through word-of-mouth or social media), and they do follow decent practices, even if they're not licensed.
Honestly, don't worry! This is a very common thing to do, and basically safe, and aftercare is key, as it is for any tattoo!
I would worry less about the needle and more about the ink -- professional tattoo ink is fine, but craft ink / India ink / similar can be a problem. Red inks are the biggest risk for bad reactions, but not-produced-for-tattoos ink of any colour may have impurities, and if the artist dilutes the ink with non-sterile water, you can get rare but nasty results, including cutaneous tuberculosis. Make sure kid knows what a bad reaction looks like, and make sure they know how to get it professionally tended-to, if needed.
You might try looking up the artist on Instagram to get a better idea of the situation. As you say, offering a trip to a professional shop that does machine tattoos wouldn't be enticing, but you could potentially offer to purchase safer supplies if the artist is more "friend who does this stuff for friends" as opposed to "person you pay with money," if you think it might be helpful! Seriously, though, it's probably all going to be fine.
posted by halation at 9:00 AM on November 13, 2019
A lot of people (not just The Kids, but definitely also The Kids) do like the intimacy and the simplicity/DIY aesthetic of the non-shop stick-and-poke. Heck, I have plenty of "professional" tattoos, but I dig them too. There are professional artists who work out of their homes and use sterile/single-use stick-and-poke kits; not sure if this is the kind of artist kid in question will be visiting, but such artists exist for sure (they mostly find clients through word-of-mouth or social media), and they do follow decent practices, even if they're not licensed.
Honestly, don't worry! This is a very common thing to do, and basically safe, and aftercare is key, as it is for any tattoo!
I would worry less about the needle and more about the ink -- professional tattoo ink is fine, but craft ink / India ink / similar can be a problem. Red inks are the biggest risk for bad reactions, but not-produced-for-tattoos ink of any colour may have impurities, and if the artist dilutes the ink with non-sterile water, you can get rare but nasty results, including cutaneous tuberculosis. Make sure kid knows what a bad reaction looks like, and make sure they know how to get it professionally tended-to, if needed.
You might try looking up the artist on Instagram to get a better idea of the situation. As you say, offering a trip to a professional shop that does machine tattoos wouldn't be enticing, but you could potentially offer to purchase safer supplies if the artist is more "friend who does this stuff for friends" as opposed to "person you pay with money," if you think it might be helpful! Seriously, though, it's probably all going to be fine.
posted by halation at 9:00 AM on November 13, 2019
Best answer: You've done what you can do, and that's to provide some point/counterpoint information. Now, you get to sit back and practice letting go. I'm saying this as a dad to three, one of whom just got her first *face* tattoo (thank heavens it's a tiny little star that looks like a beauty mark unless you stare at it, and frankly I'm glad she didn't tell me about it until after she'd gotten it).
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 9:06 AM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 9:06 AM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
Best answer: More anecdata that this is totally normal and unlikely to result in harm. I have a few mid-30s friends with shitty stick and poke tattoos they gave themselves or got from friends in high school, just using ballpoint pen ink and random needles/safety pins. They're all fine, none of them have stories about getting infections. I also know a younger person who got a trendy at-home stick-and-poke more recently and hers actually looks pretty good.
The tattooist likely has relatively few clients (vs. a shop with many artists / lots of people coming in and out), a simple setup that can be fully replaced between clients, is doing relatively small tattoos, makes appointments in advance, and is getting clients by word of mouth - all of these things are promising in terms of limiting infection opportunities and caring about their reputation. I would be more worried about getting, say, a multicolored tattoo with a gun in some random, unvetted shop.
posted by momus_window at 9:30 AM on November 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
The tattooist likely has relatively few clients (vs. a shop with many artists / lots of people coming in and out), a simple setup that can be fully replaced between clients, is doing relatively small tattoos, makes appointments in advance, and is getting clients by word of mouth - all of these things are promising in terms of limiting infection opportunities and caring about their reputation. I would be more worried about getting, say, a multicolored tattoo with a gun in some random, unvetted shop.
posted by momus_window at 9:30 AM on November 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
I guess I want to hear whether this is, in fact, SO NORMAL EVERYONE DOES IT etc etc which is what I'm hearing from my teenager.
It's pretty normal among the cultures where it's normal. I don't know if that's helpful, but in the scenes that I know (mostly punk, but also DIY and other hipster-adjacent on the more body-mod side of things) it wouldn't be considered abnormal.
It might be helpful to know that while there are risks, the actual likelihood of this becoming a dangerous thing is tiny. And, to my mind (as someone with professionally done tattoos but also someone who would possibly still get one of these if I had a friend who was offering) a lot of the "OMG the danger!!" stuff is more of a moral panic than an actual assessment of risks, and then it gets amplified on the internet. Think: Halloween Candy.
Getting in a car is riskier. Taking a shower is riskier. But we feel like these things are necessary parts of being a person in the US and we don't feel the same about tattoos. So I hear what you are saying and I know you're anxious about it. However I do think that this is more normal in your child's culture than it is in yours and that may be making it seem more "out there" than it actually is. I hope it goes well.
posted by jessamyn at 9:43 AM on November 13, 2019 [9 favorites]
It's pretty normal among the cultures where it's normal. I don't know if that's helpful, but in the scenes that I know (mostly punk, but also DIY and other hipster-adjacent on the more body-mod side of things) it wouldn't be considered abnormal.
It might be helpful to know that while there are risks, the actual likelihood of this becoming a dangerous thing is tiny. And, to my mind (as someone with professionally done tattoos but also someone who would possibly still get one of these if I had a friend who was offering) a lot of the "OMG the danger!!" stuff is more of a moral panic than an actual assessment of risks, and then it gets amplified on the internet. Think: Halloween Candy.
Getting in a car is riskier. Taking a shower is riskier. But we feel like these things are necessary parts of being a person in the US and we don't feel the same about tattoos. So I hear what you are saying and I know you're anxious about it. However I do think that this is more normal in your child's culture than it is in yours and that may be making it seem more "out there" than it actually is. I hope it goes well.
posted by jessamyn at 9:43 AM on November 13, 2019 [9 favorites]
We all assess risk differently based on how "acceptable" we consider the activity. Jessamyn mentioned driving a car, which is really madness when you crunch the numbers.
Look at it this way: if your kid were an avid birdwatcher and cut their calf really good clambering over a chainlink fence trying to get a better look at a rare Kirtland's Warbler, how concerned would you be? If it were me, I'd probably clean and bandage it, keep an eye on it in case it needed more care. Maybe some people would get a tetanus shot, but really?
This artist is making a good-faith effort to keep his equipment sanitary, even if that is literally just dunking it in some vodka. But that's a heck of a lot better than what you get from a fence or a gravelly road or a knife covered in raw chicken juice etc. If it gets infected, it's treatable.
This is a low-risk activity.
posted by Krawczak at 10:39 AM on November 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
Look at it this way: if your kid were an avid birdwatcher and cut their calf really good clambering over a chainlink fence trying to get a better look at a rare Kirtland's Warbler, how concerned would you be? If it were me, I'd probably clean and bandage it, keep an eye on it in case it needed more care. Maybe some people would get a tetanus shot, but really?
This artist is making a good-faith effort to keep his equipment sanitary, even if that is literally just dunking it in some vodka. But that's a heck of a lot better than what you get from a fence or a gravelly road or a knife covered in raw chicken juice etc. If it gets infected, it's treatable.
This is a low-risk activity.
posted by Krawczak at 10:39 AM on November 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
Halation made some good points above. In regards to your specific questions -- I don't think you need to be worried, and in my circles it is, indeed, something normal that many people do.
It sounds like the situation you're describing is someone who works as a tattoo artist, and will be doing the tattoo in their home. I have several friends who do this -- basically traveling tattoo artists who set up at parties or events. These people approach their work as a craft, and I would have no less reason to trust them than any random tattoo apprentice in one of the 50+ tattoo parlors in my small town. Even if a tattoo artist like this isn't working at a shop, they have an instagram and a presence in a community where they want to maintain a good reputation.
The other situation you might be describing is someone who doesn't practice this professionally, but is just doing stick and pokes for themselves or friends. I know many, many people who have tattoos like this. While some people do it on a whim, in my experience it is something intimate and serious that friends do for each other -- a symbol of a moment, a friendship, a way to reclaim power over one's own body, a way to feel agency in the world. Non-professionals doing stick and pokes at home with, say, the common india ink and a needle technique are equally interested in not getting infected, and have researched safety techniques. The biggest risk is usually that the tattoo will look kind of shoddy since it wasn't done by an expert.
I would encourage you to consider whether your alarm might be coming from a place of fear less about the actual risks, and more about the unsavory associations tattoos and needles have in our culture. Getting earring piercings at a Claire's in a mall by an underpaid teen with a piercing gun is notoriously unhygienic, but most people don't feel alarmed about it because, hey, so you get an infection -- you pay attention to it, you treat it, it will probably be fine. Your kid is getting a tattoo that they have planned in advance with an artist using a fresh needle, not a spur of the moment "stupid" drunk decision -- it is far more likely that this person will pay attention to safety and hygiene than the person at Claire's. I would wager that the tattoo artist knows and cares far more about safe and hygienic tattoo practices than you do.
I'd like to push back against the idea that getting a stick and poke tattoo at home has something inherently thoughtless and stupid about it. Stick and poke tattoos, also called handpoke tattoos or machinefree tattoos, have a long tradition as part of many culture's historic spiritual and ceremonial practices. There has only recently been a revival of interest in those skills by mainstream tattoo shops, but there are many artists seriously practicing the craft, whether in a studio or at home. Non-professional stick and poke tattooing between friends has also been a part of many subcultures for decades, for example in DIY music or the queer community, because it is empowering and affirming to do something so intimate with your body on your own terms. For example, it was a difficult decision for me whether to get a significant tattoo of mine done in a shop with a machine, or to have a friend handpoke it at home, because I find handpoking to better connect to the traditions of self-determination and self-actualization that are important to me. (I ended up getting it machine inked because vanity won out, and there are no local handpoke professionals where I live.) The other people I know with home-made handpoked tattoos aren't just silly teens -- they're accomplished artists, academics, and scientists. I have personally given an india ink and needle style stick and poke to the head of a research lab at the Air Force and an English professor at the University of Toronto, among a handful of others.
A final thought about safety: you wisely recognized that you can't stop your kid from doing something, but you can inform them so that they are empowered to make safe decisions. When you teach them about not eating food that might poison them, you don't say to never eat sushi -- you say that it's important the fish is fresh, and here's how to tell. When you teach them about safe driving, you don't send them car crash horror stories in the hopes that they will never drive a car -- you remind them to use their seatbelt, and how to watch out for ice. It sounds like you've shared information about what can go wrong (infections, bad ink), so it might be helpful to share information about how they can keep themselves safe: how to make sure the needle is new, how to tell that the ink is good quality, what disinfecting steps the tattoo artist should be taking, how to keep the tattoo clean as it heals, and what early signs to watch out for to address any issues right away. Your kid will be much safer and make safer decisions if they feel supported and informed.
Thanks for asking this question and being open to learning more!
posted by Pwoink at 10:44 AM on November 13, 2019 [9 favorites]
It sounds like the situation you're describing is someone who works as a tattoo artist, and will be doing the tattoo in their home. I have several friends who do this -- basically traveling tattoo artists who set up at parties or events. These people approach their work as a craft, and I would have no less reason to trust them than any random tattoo apprentice in one of the 50+ tattoo parlors in my small town. Even if a tattoo artist like this isn't working at a shop, they have an instagram and a presence in a community where they want to maintain a good reputation.
The other situation you might be describing is someone who doesn't practice this professionally, but is just doing stick and pokes for themselves or friends. I know many, many people who have tattoos like this. While some people do it on a whim, in my experience it is something intimate and serious that friends do for each other -- a symbol of a moment, a friendship, a way to reclaim power over one's own body, a way to feel agency in the world. Non-professionals doing stick and pokes at home with, say, the common india ink and a needle technique are equally interested in not getting infected, and have researched safety techniques. The biggest risk is usually that the tattoo will look kind of shoddy since it wasn't done by an expert.
I would encourage you to consider whether your alarm might be coming from a place of fear less about the actual risks, and more about the unsavory associations tattoos and needles have in our culture. Getting earring piercings at a Claire's in a mall by an underpaid teen with a piercing gun is notoriously unhygienic, but most people don't feel alarmed about it because, hey, so you get an infection -- you pay attention to it, you treat it, it will probably be fine. Your kid is getting a tattoo that they have planned in advance with an artist using a fresh needle, not a spur of the moment "stupid" drunk decision -- it is far more likely that this person will pay attention to safety and hygiene than the person at Claire's. I would wager that the tattoo artist knows and cares far more about safe and hygienic tattoo practices than you do.
I'd like to push back against the idea that getting a stick and poke tattoo at home has something inherently thoughtless and stupid about it. Stick and poke tattoos, also called handpoke tattoos or machinefree tattoos, have a long tradition as part of many culture's historic spiritual and ceremonial practices. There has only recently been a revival of interest in those skills by mainstream tattoo shops, but there are many artists seriously practicing the craft, whether in a studio or at home. Non-professional stick and poke tattooing between friends has also been a part of many subcultures for decades, for example in DIY music or the queer community, because it is empowering and affirming to do something so intimate with your body on your own terms. For example, it was a difficult decision for me whether to get a significant tattoo of mine done in a shop with a machine, or to have a friend handpoke it at home, because I find handpoking to better connect to the traditions of self-determination and self-actualization that are important to me. (I ended up getting it machine inked because vanity won out, and there are no local handpoke professionals where I live.) The other people I know with home-made handpoked tattoos aren't just silly teens -- they're accomplished artists, academics, and scientists. I have personally given an india ink and needle style stick and poke to the head of a research lab at the Air Force and an English professor at the University of Toronto, among a handful of others.
A final thought about safety: you wisely recognized that you can't stop your kid from doing something, but you can inform them so that they are empowered to make safe decisions. When you teach them about not eating food that might poison them, you don't say to never eat sushi -- you say that it's important the fish is fresh, and here's how to tell. When you teach them about safe driving, you don't send them car crash horror stories in the hopes that they will never drive a car -- you remind them to use their seatbelt, and how to watch out for ice. It sounds like you've shared information about what can go wrong (infections, bad ink), so it might be helpful to share information about how they can keep themselves safe: how to make sure the needle is new, how to tell that the ink is good quality, what disinfecting steps the tattoo artist should be taking, how to keep the tattoo clean as it heals, and what early signs to watch out for to address any issues right away. Your kid will be much safer and make safer decisions if they feel supported and informed.
Thanks for asking this question and being open to learning more!
posted by Pwoink at 10:44 AM on November 13, 2019 [9 favorites]
I work with high schoolers, and several of them have these kind of stick and poke tattoos. I don't like them, primarily because of the possible contamination problems. And these are smart kids, some of whom also have professionally-done tattoos. They know I have tattoos, and they know that I support clean (single use needles, ink, gloves, etc) and thought-out tattoos, not the dorm room special.
That said, NONE of the kids have had problems with healing, or infection, or anything like that. So maybe it really is "normal and everybody does it" because us old folks are making the tattoo studios uncool.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 10:50 AM on November 13, 2019
That said, NONE of the kids have had problems with healing, or infection, or anything like that. So maybe it really is "normal and everybody does it" because us old folks are making the tattoo studios uncool.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 10:50 AM on November 13, 2019
Best answer: I am not a doctor, but I and many friends of mine have gotten tattoos in similar circumstances and none of us have had any infections. Stick-and-pokes are very normal among younger alternative types.
posted by noxperpetua at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2019
posted by noxperpetua at 12:06 PM on November 13, 2019
I was invited to one of these kinds of parties 18 years ago and the tattoo artist declined my request because they didn't want to give me one harder to hide if I needed to (I wanted it on my hand).
So, just anecdata that these kinds of these have been around for a few decades at least.
posted by jillithd at 12:44 PM on November 13, 2019
So, just anecdata that these kinds of these have been around for a few decades at least.
posted by jillithd at 12:44 PM on November 13, 2019
1) I suspect a lot of this is that "kids these days" want to go "against the man" and get a "cool" stick and poke. Part of it is the rebellion. Which, teenage rebellion is often being stupid. (Though people in my age group STILL do this and I'm baffled.)
Maybe I'm still too old to listen to - but this 29 year old Fairly Tattooed Person is telling them to go to a shop.
2) The GOOD news is, there are actual, certified, clean artists who do stick a poke style tattoos in shops. It's a popular style, and there is something to be said about some people's attraction to the endurance that it requires and the tradition that it holds. So, see if you can convince them to go to an actual shop for the same style of tattoo. The stick and poke part isn't necessarily more dangerous. It's the environment and cleanliness.
3) I got a tattoo not in a shop. I was fine. It was done with a clean machine and clean needles with gloves and fresh ink by someone whose work I checked and who I trusted in terms of cleanliness. However, I would NEVER recommend it nor would I risk it again. But I lived. In fact, it was an inner lip tattoo and it healed very well and still looks good 10 years on. I told my dad afterward.
4) You can remind them that removals and coverups really fucking suck and are very expensive. My removal of a small not-well-done traditional tattoo was nearly $500. I've done 5 sessions. They all hurt like hell and it blisters. And it's not all the way gone and will require a coverup that will likely cost over $300. Remind them you won't pay for a removal or coverup.
5) Yes, it is highly common for people to have stick and pokes. I would say many people I know that have tattoos have also gotten a stick-and-poke or done one on themselves. MANY of those people have had them covered up or removed to great expense - see above. Though I don't personally know anyone that had any health consequences.
6) In the end, you're right. You cannot stop them. And part of their resistance might be just that YOU don't want them to do it. But you can also let them deal with consequences (besides of course taking them for medical care, but maybe they'll need to pay the co-pays.)
This unfortunately feels like a gotta let them make their own choices issue if you've done all you can to be supportive and educational. Unprotected sex probably has more risks and you know you can't stop that either. Just hope that things go well and that they learn from the experience.
*And as a note, a shop or certified artist does not automatically equal clean, good work. Always do research and check places out.
posted by Crystalinne at 2:17 PM on November 13, 2019
Maybe I'm still too old to listen to - but this 29 year old Fairly Tattooed Person is telling them to go to a shop.
2) The GOOD news is, there are actual, certified, clean artists who do stick a poke style tattoos in shops. It's a popular style, and there is something to be said about some people's attraction to the endurance that it requires and the tradition that it holds. So, see if you can convince them to go to an actual shop for the same style of tattoo. The stick and poke part isn't necessarily more dangerous. It's the environment and cleanliness.
3) I got a tattoo not in a shop. I was fine. It was done with a clean machine and clean needles with gloves and fresh ink by someone whose work I checked and who I trusted in terms of cleanliness. However, I would NEVER recommend it nor would I risk it again. But I lived. In fact, it was an inner lip tattoo and it healed very well and still looks good 10 years on. I told my dad afterward.
4) You can remind them that removals and coverups really fucking suck and are very expensive. My removal of a small not-well-done traditional tattoo was nearly $500. I've done 5 sessions. They all hurt like hell and it blisters. And it's not all the way gone and will require a coverup that will likely cost over $300. Remind them you won't pay for a removal or coverup.
5) Yes, it is highly common for people to have stick and pokes. I would say many people I know that have tattoos have also gotten a stick-and-poke or done one on themselves. MANY of those people have had them covered up or removed to great expense - see above. Though I don't personally know anyone that had any health consequences.
6) In the end, you're right. You cannot stop them. And part of their resistance might be just that YOU don't want them to do it. But you can also let them deal with consequences (besides of course taking them for medical care, but maybe they'll need to pay the co-pays.)
This unfortunately feels like a gotta let them make their own choices issue if you've done all you can to be supportive and educational. Unprotected sex probably has more risks and you know you can't stop that either. Just hope that things go well and that they learn from the experience.
*And as a note, a shop or certified artist does not automatically equal clean, good work. Always do research and check places out.
posted by Crystalinne at 2:17 PM on November 13, 2019
I'm a nurse with many years of experience with hepatitis A, B and C. I know for sure of several people who were infected with hepatitis C at home tattoo parties where the needle was changed between clients, but the ink was not. Someone who was tattooed ahead of my patients was infected with hepatitis C, and the infected ink was injected into my patients. Three of these people know for certain that their hep C was acquired by the tattooing because 1) they had new jobs where baseline testing was done before hiring and had been HCV negative, and 2) in one case several other guests at one party were newly infected by the same tattoo artist.
Home tattooing is not regulated and it's up to the artist to follow strict precautions. Ink is expensive and it is apparently common to change needles but reuse ink. That said, Hep C is curable if a person knows they have it. Hep C frequently has no symptoms at all, and must be specifically tested for - it's not included in a typical "check-up". It also will not produce a positive test for at least 6 weeks after infection, as the screening test is for an antibody - it takes time for the body to produce the antibody. If the first test is negative, I'd suggest repeating it at 12 weeks. If it's not positive then, it is likely there is no infection.
tl:dr
Infection is most often transferred among clients by reuse of ink, particularly expensive colors. Infected people frequently have no symptoms, so it must be specifically tested for. Also, it's probably not all THAT commonly transmitted this way. But it happens often enough that it should be considered. Other infections, like HIV should be considered, though it's much rarer because HIV is relatively less common in the population than hep C. Hep A is very, very rarely gotten by injection and the only cases I know of were among IV drug users, so not tattooing (it's typically an oral/fecal infection) and though Hep B is easily transmitted your child was probably vaccinated against it as a child.
posted by citygirl at 2:20 PM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
Home tattooing is not regulated and it's up to the artist to follow strict precautions. Ink is expensive and it is apparently common to change needles but reuse ink. That said, Hep C is curable if a person knows they have it. Hep C frequently has no symptoms at all, and must be specifically tested for - it's not included in a typical "check-up". It also will not produce a positive test for at least 6 weeks after infection, as the screening test is for an antibody - it takes time for the body to produce the antibody. If the first test is negative, I'd suggest repeating it at 12 weeks. If it's not positive then, it is likely there is no infection.
tl:dr
Infection is most often transferred among clients by reuse of ink, particularly expensive colors. Infected people frequently have no symptoms, so it must be specifically tested for. Also, it's probably not all THAT commonly transmitted this way. But it happens often enough that it should be considered. Other infections, like HIV should be considered, though it's much rarer because HIV is relatively less common in the population than hep C. Hep A is very, very rarely gotten by injection and the only cases I know of were among IV drug users, so not tattooing (it's typically an oral/fecal infection) and though Hep B is easily transmitted your child was probably vaccinated against it as a child.
posted by citygirl at 2:20 PM on November 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
More anecdata: The place that I work has a Slack channel for helping each other out. There are multiple stick and poke-rs on there offering to trade their (at home) tattooing skills for whatever other people want to give: brownies, back rubs, help moving, plumbing help, legal aid, whathaveyou. There are 10s of people I know here who have received said tattoos with no issues.
posted by booooooze at 2:43 PM on November 13, 2019
posted by booooooze at 2:43 PM on November 13, 2019
Since it's not about the $:
-Does your kid have a celebrity idol with tattoos? You could offer to pay for them to see the same professional artist (in a professional setting, etc.) as the idol.
--You could offer to supply the new, quality ink for the in-town home job.
I've known a few people who've gotten this type of tattoo; only one mentioned that she had a problem afterwards, and that antibiotics took care of it.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:27 PM on November 13, 2019
-Does your kid have a celebrity idol with tattoos? You could offer to pay for them to see the same professional artist (in a professional setting, etc.) as the idol.
--You could offer to supply the new, quality ink for the in-town home job.
I've known a few people who've gotten this type of tattoo; only one mentioned that she had a problem afterwards, and that antibiotics took care of it.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:27 PM on November 13, 2019
Response by poster: Follow up: kid has beautiful tattoo. Kid is happy. Mom (me) didn't have a stroke. Will definitely let you all know if something alarming happened. For now: I'm assuming the best. THANK YOU EVERYONE!! SO MUCH.
posted by nantucket at 5:07 PM on November 13, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by nantucket at 5:07 PM on November 13, 2019 [11 favorites]
Glad everything went well. This might be a good trigger to start handing over medical responsibility to your kid. Review their vaccinations, look up the current recommendations, and help them get any boosters they need. Tell them their medical history, as well as their parents and grandparents.
posted by kjs4 at 5:39 PM on November 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by kjs4 at 5:39 PM on November 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Is something terrible going to happen to your kid? Probably not. Would I ever do what they're doing? Absolutely not. Do I know people that have done what your kid is proposing to do? Of course, and they lived, and with no ill effect that I know of.
posted by komara at 7:43 AM on November 13, 2019 [9 favorites]