Job won’t tell me the offer until I pass tests?
October 29, 2019 9:17 AM Subscribe
Is this normal? And would it be entirely rude to wait until I know the salary to make a final (and possible rejecting) decision even if this process takes a week?
Oh my god I hope this is the last time I come to y’all with this job stuff. So sorry.
I asked a question last week about possible yellow flags, and it turns out they’re quite red (for me.) After a lot of gnashing of teeth and convincing myself “you will NOT ruin your career by not taking this job but you might ruin your health for taking this job” I think I’m leaning towards no. However, I said I would wait for an offer because if it was high enough pay, I maybe might consider it.
Yesterday, I was given a verbal “offer” over the phone, however, they said they couldn’t tell me how much the salary would be or what the benefits were until I passed a background check and physical. I hadn’t had that happen before, usually I would say thank you for the contingent offer, and ask for 24 hours to think about it. But this time, there was nothing to think about!
I scheduled my fingerprinting and physical for tomorrow. I asked them what the physical entailed and they said they weren’t sure. Probably a medical history and bending and lifting.
It will be 3-4 days to a week (!!) before my results would come back and they can “calculate the offer.” They asked if I could give my employer two weeks notice now, but I told them I couldn’t without a written offer. I also let them know that I wouldn’t be able to make a final decision without knowing the salary. They were surprised that I wouldn’t accept now. But I have no clue what they’re offering!
Now, I’m leaning towards not taking the job (after much thought about other parts of the job) but I don’t know if I can tell them after knowing the salary? Or should I say this now?
My concern with waiting is that it would be almost a week until I know the actual offer and they could use that time to tell another candidate and offer the job. They might be angry with me that I waited until their week long process for the salary reveal to turn it down.
My other concern is telling them now before my background check would look like I’m hiding something.
But I just don’t get why they can’t give me a salary until I pass all these things... I also am very curious what the salary would be.
What would be the best action in this situation? And is this normal?
Thank you!
Oh my god I hope this is the last time I come to y’all with this job stuff. So sorry.
I asked a question last week about possible yellow flags, and it turns out they’re quite red (for me.) After a lot of gnashing of teeth and convincing myself “you will NOT ruin your career by not taking this job but you might ruin your health for taking this job” I think I’m leaning towards no. However, I said I would wait for an offer because if it was high enough pay, I maybe might consider it.
Yesterday, I was given a verbal “offer” over the phone, however, they said they couldn’t tell me how much the salary would be or what the benefits were until I passed a background check and physical. I hadn’t had that happen before, usually I would say thank you for the contingent offer, and ask for 24 hours to think about it. But this time, there was nothing to think about!
I scheduled my fingerprinting and physical for tomorrow. I asked them what the physical entailed and they said they weren’t sure. Probably a medical history and bending and lifting.
It will be 3-4 days to a week (!!) before my results would come back and they can “calculate the offer.” They asked if I could give my employer two weeks notice now, but I told them I couldn’t without a written offer. I also let them know that I wouldn’t be able to make a final decision without knowing the salary. They were surprised that I wouldn’t accept now. But I have no clue what they’re offering!
Now, I’m leaning towards not taking the job (after much thought about other parts of the job) but I don’t know if I can tell them after knowing the salary? Or should I say this now?
My concern with waiting is that it would be almost a week until I know the actual offer and they could use that time to tell another candidate and offer the job. They might be angry with me that I waited until their week long process for the salary reveal to turn it down.
My other concern is telling them now before my background check would look like I’m hiding something.
But I just don’t get why they can’t give me a salary until I pass all these things... I also am very curious what the salary would be.
What would be the best action in this situation? And is this normal?
Thank you!
If they are angry at you for not accepting or rejecting a contingent verbal offer with no salary info provided: good. Let them be, they are doing it wrong. They don’t get to withhold salary info and expect a reasonable person to give a commitment.
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:21 AM on October 29, 2019 [81 favorites]
posted by SaltySalticid at 9:21 AM on October 29, 2019 [81 favorites]
You do not want to work for these people. They are behaving very strangely and treating you badly. Tell them no now so that you are not tempted by whatever offer they may or may not end up making; or tell them no after they give you an offer, if you must; or never tell them anything and just don't speak to them again; just don't tell them yes.
posted by jordemort at 9:22 AM on October 29, 2019 [27 favorites]
posted by jordemort at 9:22 AM on October 29, 2019 [27 favorites]
I think you've answered your own question. They are throwing bright red burning flags in your direction, and you're dodging them. I think it's perfectly fine for you to wait for an actual offer, but just remember that, like dating, potential employers are not trying to show you all the problems before you start working there. If there's already this much WTF around them, there will be Much, Much More.
*And I work in a field where it's routine to have physicals and background checks. My current job didn't even have me take my physical until my 2nd week there.
posted by DoubleLune at 9:22 AM on October 29, 2019 [11 favorites]
*And I work in a field where it's routine to have physicals and background checks. My current job didn't even have me take my physical until my 2nd week there.
posted by DoubleLune at 9:22 AM on October 29, 2019 [11 favorites]
If it is a job you really want, with an organization you think is great, then jump through the hoops and put up with this nonsense. If not, bail out now.
posted by beagle at 9:23 AM on October 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by beagle at 9:23 AM on October 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
Oh my job did this! I desperately needed to get out of a terrible job turning worse and they agreed that I should wait to give my two weeks until I passed the background and physical, which made it less stressful. The job has turned out to be wonderful, best I've ever had with excellent coworkers. That said I later realized why they didn't tell me the salary, it's a state job with a very set way to determine offers and my manager was new to hiring. He had no idea how to figure it out within the bureaucracy and didn't ask the right person for help. While he's continued that level of bewilderment when anything needs to get done within the system I've gotten much better at navigating it, I just show up in his office now with paperwork for him to sign than take it away to send to the correct people.
posted by lepus at 9:32 AM on October 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by lepus at 9:32 AM on October 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
They asked if I could give my employer two weeks notice now, but I told them I couldn’t without a written offer.
Good!
I also let them know that I wouldn’t be able to make a final decision without knowing the salary.
Also good!
I don’t know if I can tell them after knowing the salary?
Yes, this would be very normal (turning down a job based on a salary offer you didn’t like).
All of your requests are well within the bounds of typical. I’d be surprised if the employer was actually surprised by any of this. If you lose the job because they are “angry” then you’ve just dodged a bullet. If someone else swoops in and makes the risky bet of taking a job without knowing the salary, well, that’s life!
posted by sallybrown at 9:47 AM on October 29, 2019 [18 favorites]
Good!
I also let them know that I wouldn’t be able to make a final decision without knowing the salary.
Also good!
I don’t know if I can tell them after knowing the salary?
Yes, this would be very normal (turning down a job based on a salary offer you didn’t like).
All of your requests are well within the bounds of typical. I’d be surprised if the employer was actually surprised by any of this. If you lose the job because they are “angry” then you’ve just dodged a bullet. If someone else swoops in and makes the risky bet of taking a job without knowing the salary, well, that’s life!
posted by sallybrown at 9:47 AM on October 29, 2019 [18 favorites]
You don't have a job offer until you have a salary offered, period.
You shouldn't quit your current job for another job without an offer in general, so in this specific case, you shouldn't either. You also should consider why it means to work for an employer that considers this to be "normal" and factor it into your decision. At least for me, this makes them look incompetent.
posted by saeculorum at 9:48 AM on October 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
You shouldn't quit your current job for another job without an offer in general, so in this specific case, you shouldn't either. You also should consider why it means to work for an employer that considers this to be "normal" and factor it into your decision. At least for me, this makes them look incompetent.
posted by saeculorum at 9:48 AM on October 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
At any point, you can decide to turn down an offer. Every employer will lay you off according to the needs of the company; you should feel free to treat them the same way.
posted by theora55 at 9:50 AM on October 29, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 9:50 AM on October 29, 2019 [15 favorites]
Does the physical include a drug screen?
posted by theora55 at 9:51 AM on October 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 9:51 AM on October 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
My concern with waiting is that it would be almost a week until I know the actual offer and they could use that time to tell another candidate and offer the job. They might be angry with me that I waited until their week long process for the salary reveal to turn it down.
They won't be -- a week is nothing in the hiring process -- but even if they are, so what?
posted by DarlingBri at 10:01 AM on October 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
They won't be -- a week is nothing in the hiring process -- but even if they are, so what?
posted by DarlingBri at 10:01 AM on October 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
Damn, you're already allowing people, that you have no obligation toward, to manipulate you with their emotions that you don't know they are experience and you don't even know why they're doing this. What's that about? How's that going to manifest in other ways if you take the job?
This sounds like a potential nightmare to me. I've turned down offers last minute after an inept company wouldn't let me shift the start date (and cross country move) back a week until the background check cleared (just in case a former employer tried to black ball me again and I'd have the job offer revoked). They wanted me to start before it did and I refused to take that risk.
I would look at someone expecting me to quit my job without even knowing what the salary is/before the background check cleared as utterly insane.
I get that you're desperate but you can do better.
posted by Young Kullervo at 10:08 AM on October 29, 2019 [8 favorites]
This sounds like a potential nightmare to me. I've turned down offers last minute after an inept company wouldn't let me shift the start date (and cross country move) back a week until the background check cleared (just in case a former employer tried to black ball me again and I'd have the job offer revoked). They wanted me to start before it did and I refused to take that risk.
I would look at someone expecting me to quit my job without even knowing what the salary is/before the background check cleared as utterly insane.
I get that you're desperate but you can do better.
posted by Young Kullervo at 10:08 AM on October 29, 2019 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Does the physical include a drug screen?
No, this company doesn't drug test.
but even if they are, so what?
I just don't want to get on the bad side of the boss, especially if I'm turning down the offer :/ I know the world is small and this boss is ~*famous*~ in parts of my field. I would be afraid that turning it down without being considerate of their timing would put me on her shit list and I would get a bad rep.
Hmm. But now typing that, I realize that it's probably inconsiderate of them to have all these hoops before knowing the dang salary! (Although @lepus good to know that there are exceptions.)
So... just so I'm clear, I'm hearing that it's OK to reject the offer now, before my background screen (possibly look like a shady person maybe) OR get the salary after all these dang tests and still feel OK with rejecting it then even though it might take a week.
posted by buttonedup at 10:22 AM on October 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
No, this company doesn't drug test.
but even if they are, so what?
I just don't want to get on the bad side of the boss, especially if I'm turning down the offer :/ I know the world is small and this boss is ~*famous*~ in parts of my field. I would be afraid that turning it down without being considerate of their timing would put me on her shit list and I would get a bad rep.
Hmm. But now typing that, I realize that it's probably inconsiderate of them to have all these hoops before knowing the dang salary! (Although @lepus good to know that there are exceptions.)
So... just so I'm clear, I'm hearing that it's OK to reject the offer now, before my background screen (possibly look like a shady person maybe) OR get the salary after all these dang tests and still feel OK with rejecting it then even though it might take a week.
posted by buttonedup at 10:22 AM on October 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Now that I learned that I have to drive down (round trip, two hours from my current workplace) both tomorrow AND Thursday to complete these, and take more sick leave, and pay $40, without knowing the details of the salary, I think I must say no before I get to even know the salary.
Thanks all for your clarity again and helping me navigate this. I'm only on my second job post school so this is all strange, I keep second guessing what's normal or not.
posted by buttonedup at 10:25 AM on October 29, 2019 [27 favorites]
Thanks all for your clarity again and helping me navigate this. I'm only on my second job post school so this is all strange, I keep second guessing what's normal or not.
posted by buttonedup at 10:25 AM on October 29, 2019 [27 favorites]
Making you pay for a pre-employment test/physical isn't normal either, just FYI.
posted by Young Kullervo at 10:26 AM on October 29, 2019 [43 favorites]
posted by Young Kullervo at 10:26 AM on October 29, 2019 [43 favorites]
Young got there before I did, but yes you should never ever pay anything for a job.
posted by AlexiaSky at 10:28 AM on October 29, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 10:28 AM on October 29, 2019 [15 favorites]
Money is almost always a neutral reason for rejecting a job that any remotely good boss would not take personally or be offended by. I wouldn’t find it suspicious or weird for you to say “I’m sorry but without knowing the salary to determine whether I can afford to take the job, I can’t invest the time and money in these tests.” Same goes for if you had done the tests and the salary didn’t meet what you wanted. You’ll notice as you spend more time in the workforce just how red of a red flag it is for an employer to push you on hours or salary under the guise of “but if you really cared about this job, you wouldn’t mind.”
posted by sallybrown at 10:34 AM on October 29, 2019 [18 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 10:34 AM on October 29, 2019 [18 favorites]
Conspiratorial me thinks this is a negotiating tactic: get you to accept without knowing salary so that they can come back and super-lowball you. Even if that's not what they're doing, they ARE being extremely manipulative, and I'd run far away from this company if I were you.
posted by kevinbelt at 10:36 AM on October 29, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 10:36 AM on October 29, 2019 [10 favorites]
What could possibly come up in a background check or physical that would affect the *calculation* for how much money to offer you? If the background turns up that you lied about your qualifications, they're going to not hire you, not lowball you. If you fail the physical, they're not going to be able to hire you, not lowball you.
This may just be a stupid, broken process that they are adhering to because they are bad at their jobs, but the explanation doesn't make any sense and it makes the whole thing seem even hinkier. You can wait until the offer comes in and then turn it down -- which would probably make more sense at this point than declining an offer that technically hasn't been made yet -- but unless they offer you an absolute fortune or you hate your current job with a fiery passion and need to get out or go crazy, you will want to turn this down.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:50 AM on October 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
This may just be a stupid, broken process that they are adhering to because they are bad at their jobs, but the explanation doesn't make any sense and it makes the whole thing seem even hinkier. You can wait until the offer comes in and then turn it down -- which would probably make more sense at this point than declining an offer that technically hasn't been made yet -- but unless they offer you an absolute fortune or you hate your current job with a fiery passion and need to get out or go crazy, you will want to turn this down.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:50 AM on October 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
Nope nope nope. One of my current (great) jobs had initial travel/hour requirements along those lines, but they paid me for my time and mileage. It was more like I was in a probationary period than "just" an applicant. And, even when my dad was working in an industry known to be exploitative that had extensive pre-hire screening exams, they didn't make him pay for the tests. Good grief. It's even worse that the boss is so "famous" and therefore probably gets away with this nonsense more often than not.
posted by teremala at 11:02 AM on October 29, 2019
posted by teremala at 11:02 AM on October 29, 2019
You should not have to pay for your pre employment testing.
posted by jeoc at 11:12 AM on October 29, 2019
posted by jeoc at 11:12 AM on October 29, 2019
It will be 3-4 days to a week (!!) before my results would come back and they can “calculate the offer.” They asked if I could give my employer two weeks notice now, but I told them I couldn’t without a written offer. I also let them know that I wouldn’t be able to make a final decision without knowing the salary. They were surprised that I wouldn’t accept now. But I have no clue what they’re offering!
These people are not behaving in any sort of manner that is acceptable or in your interest. Run, don't walk, to the nearest exit.
The gall of we haven't "calculated the offer" yet asking you to quit your job in advance. "I can't even" is my feeling if we threw it into the sun and let it steal all of the sun's energy.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:18 AM on October 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
These people are not behaving in any sort of manner that is acceptable or in your interest. Run, don't walk, to the nearest exit.
The gall of we haven't "calculated the offer" yet asking you to quit your job in advance. "I can't even" is my feeling if we threw it into the sun and let it steal all of the sun's energy.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:18 AM on October 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
You don't have a job offer until you have a salary offered, period.
you should never ever pay anything for a job.
These are universal truths.
posted by PMdixon at 11:19 AM on October 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
you should never ever pay anything for a job.
These are universal truths.
posted by PMdixon at 11:19 AM on October 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
If this is a company with a high media profile, I would honestly consider sending this question to the tips email address of a national or local newspaper. That's how red these flags are.
posted by caek at 11:57 AM on October 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by caek at 11:57 AM on October 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
Many employers structure their recruitment process so that it takes a long time and has you jumping through multiple hoops. This is not an accident, its a negotiating tactic, they are hoping that when you get to the end of the process you will be so worn down that you'll just accept whatever their offer is. What you should do is ask for more - whatever amount they finally offer you, ask for 10-15% more and take it from there.
Also if you ask for more and they agree to it, you can still turn down the role. It's useful to find out what they think you are worth even if you ultimately don't want the job.
posted by Lanark at 12:00 PM on October 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
Also if you ask for more and they agree to it, you can still turn down the role. It's useful to find out what they think you are worth even if you ultimately don't want the job.
posted by Lanark at 12:00 PM on October 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
The best your employer will ever treat you is during the interview process.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:57 PM on October 29, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:57 PM on October 29, 2019 [12 favorites]
I have to drive down (round trip, two hours from my current workplace) both tomorrow AND Thursday to complete these, and take more sick leave, and pay $40
That's absurd. That's so absurd that I'd be tempted to string them along ("Oh, I got stuck in traffic and missed my appointment, I'll try again Tuesday" ... "The phlebotomist couldn't get a good vein, he asked me to come back Thursday when their best nurse was working" ... "Oh, since I was paying for the test, I thought I should receive it myself...it should be in my inbox by Wednesday"... etc.) Waste as much of their time as you can, without wasting any of your own time or money.
If they do eventually give you an offer, practice your negotiating skills. Get more vacation time. Get a better title. Get more money. Get a signing bonus. Get credit for your extra pet care. Whatever.
Get the offer in writing. Get the offer in different writing since your dad is a lawyer and wanted X, Y and Z. Ask for a certified letter. Oh, no, sorry, I needed it sent to a different address.
And then turn them down.
posted by spacewrench at 1:06 PM on October 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
That's absurd. That's so absurd that I'd be tempted to string them along ("Oh, I got stuck in traffic and missed my appointment, I'll try again Tuesday" ... "The phlebotomist couldn't get a good vein, he asked me to come back Thursday when their best nurse was working" ... "Oh, since I was paying for the test, I thought I should receive it myself...it should be in my inbox by Wednesday"... etc.) Waste as much of their time as you can, without wasting any of your own time or money.
If they do eventually give you an offer, practice your negotiating skills. Get more vacation time. Get a better title. Get more money. Get a signing bonus. Get credit for your extra pet care. Whatever.
Get the offer in writing. Get the offer in different writing since your dad is a lawyer and wanted X, Y and Z. Ask for a certified letter. Oh, no, sorry, I needed it sent to a different address.
And then turn them down.
posted by spacewrench at 1:06 PM on October 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Ok, this is my last thing.
OMG @spacewrench I am dead thank you for that.
I will let you all know that I ended up turning it down now. I am cancelling my appointments. I think even if they went and offered me a boat ton of money, it just isn't the right fit for me. So long, working with famous person.
Thank you all. Marking as resolved.
posted by buttonedup at 1:40 PM on October 29, 2019 [21 favorites]
OMG @spacewrench I am dead thank you for that.
I will let you all know that I ended up turning it down now. I am cancelling my appointments. I think even if they went and offered me a boat ton of money, it just isn't the right fit for me. So long, working with famous person.
Thank you all. Marking as resolved.
posted by buttonedup at 1:40 PM on October 29, 2019 [21 favorites]
I got this nonsense with a programming job at Amazon recently. The lack of even a vague salary offer combined with their particularly miserly 401K (the secret terms of which I had to find for myself by Googling), led me to reject them before the interview process got going.
posted by w0mbat at 7:27 PM on October 29, 2019
posted by w0mbat at 7:27 PM on October 29, 2019
If, and only if, you are willing it might be ... manipulative ... to let people (us) know who this organization/person is, so that they might begin to feel some angst about their general behavior.
posted by aramaic at 8:34 PM on October 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 8:34 PM on October 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
Oh man the boss is "famous"? Running away was so the right decision.
posted by grouse at 5:48 PM on November 4, 2019
posted by grouse at 5:48 PM on November 4, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by bq at 9:19 AM on October 29, 2019 [60 favorites]