How are multi-plane trips priced? And can I only use the 2nd flight?
October 19, 2019 7:17 AM Subscribe
In November, I'm flying to Vanuatu from Toronto, which is too far for direct. Pricing out flights, all seem to switch at LAX. It is cheaper for me to fly from Toronto to Vanuatu, switching in LA, than it is to fly directly from LA to Vanuatu on the exact same flight. How does this make sense from a business perspective? Also, if I get to LA on my own a few days early, am I able to show up at LAX take the second flight to Vanuatu after skipping the first out of Toronto?
I have flown direct for almost 30 years and am baffled by the logistics of multi-flight pricing.
I have flown direct for almost 30 years and am baffled by the logistics of multi-flight pricing.
Response by poster: Thanks, pazazygeek.
I should also mention that two different airlines are involved.
posted by dobbs at 7:31 AM on October 19, 2019
I should also mention that two different airlines are involved.
posted by dobbs at 7:31 AM on October 19, 2019
It is a question of how many tickets. Airlines code share and offer connections operated by other airlines. But they are on one ticket. If you don’t show for any leg of a multi leg ticket all remaining legs are normally cancelled by the airline. The only exception is normally if a flight delay or cancellation on one leg caused you to miss the next leg. At that point the airlines have an obligation to get you to your destination. So don’t do that unless you’re prepared not to go to Vanuata or pay for another ticket.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:33 AM on October 19, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:33 AM on October 19, 2019 [2 favorites]
Second question, no. If you don't show up at the gate where the flight begins, you're taken out of the system (don't ask why I know this).
The reason given to me at the time was exactly about pricing: for complex reasons that can be explained (but often aren't), some shorter flights, single flights or whatnot else are made more expensive than most multi-leg multi-airline-alliance flights along the same trajectory and onward*; now if you unilaterally decide to dodge extra costs by picking which leg from such a cheaper multi-leg flight you're using, you prevent the airline(s) from earning money from one of those flights that are intentionally made more expensive, and that's obviously not a decision an airline wants you to make on your own and get away with.
*Over the years, I've paid similar amounts for return tickets Gothenburg-Brussels and for Gothenburg-Washington via Brussels. The only way to avoid this is to poke around for alternative routes or dates.
posted by Namlit at 7:42 AM on October 19, 2019 [3 favorites]
The reason given to me at the time was exactly about pricing: for complex reasons that can be explained (but often aren't), some shorter flights, single flights or whatnot else are made more expensive than most multi-leg multi-airline-alliance flights along the same trajectory and onward*; now if you unilaterally decide to dodge extra costs by picking which leg from such a cheaper multi-leg flight you're using, you prevent the airline(s) from earning money from one of those flights that are intentionally made more expensive, and that's obviously not a decision an airline wants you to make on your own and get away with.
*Over the years, I've paid similar amounts for return tickets Gothenburg-Brussels and for Gothenburg-Washington via Brussels. The only way to avoid this is to poke around for alternative routes or dates.
posted by Namlit at 7:42 AM on October 19, 2019 [3 favorites]
This article talks more about the seeming irrationality of pricing of long connecting flights. tl;dr: airlines use complex pricing algorithms based on expected demand and they often produce counter-intuitive results.
posted by Nelson at 8:18 AM on October 19, 2019
posted by Nelson at 8:18 AM on October 19, 2019
First question: this is not uncommon, I see it all the time. As to why, that's hard to answer. Airline pricing is complicated (and largely counterintuitive in my experience) but demand plays a big role, as does the season, the airline itself, etc. If your route involves multiple airlines (and going somewhere like Vanuatu I could imagine that's true) it gets even more complicated.
Second question: As others mentioned, skipping the first leg is not recommended - if you're a no-show for any segment the airline will likely cancel the remainder of your reservation automatically. People do try variants of this to get cheaper tickets (often called hidden-city ticketing) but I would definitely advise against trying it - many airlines have cracked down on it, going as far as banning people or suing for lost revenue.
posted by photo guy at 8:30 AM on October 19, 2019 [1 favorite]
Second question: As others mentioned, skipping the first leg is not recommended - if you're a no-show for any segment the airline will likely cancel the remainder of your reservation automatically. People do try variants of this to get cheaper tickets (often called hidden-city ticketing) but I would definitely advise against trying it - many airlines have cracked down on it, going as far as banning people or suing for lost revenue.
posted by photo guy at 8:30 AM on October 19, 2019 [1 favorite]
This pricing oddity is quite common. Sometimes, it's absolutely down to supply and demand. The airlines set prices not based on their actual cost, but based on how they believe they can maximize their profit. I have to imagine that other times it's not really on purpose, but happens when hundreds of other optimizations have side effects.
"Hidden city" ticketing is when you take advantage of this, but as others mentioned, you can't skip the first leg. Imagine another example where YYZ > LAX cost $X, but YYZ > Salt Lake City via the same first flight to LAX cost less than $X. You could then (theoretically) get off at LAX and miss your connecting flight to Salt Lake City. This is technically against the contract you agree to by purchasing an airline ticket, and if something goes wrong you'd be on your own (like getting forced to check your carry-on bag all the way through to Salt Lake City).
But for your specific example, there's no way to skip the first leg.
posted by reeddavid at 5:23 PM on October 19, 2019
"Hidden city" ticketing is when you take advantage of this, but as others mentioned, you can't skip the first leg. Imagine another example where YYZ > LAX cost $X, but YYZ > Salt Lake City via the same first flight to LAX cost less than $X. You could then (theoretically) get off at LAX and miss your connecting flight to Salt Lake City. This is technically against the contract you agree to by purchasing an airline ticket, and if something goes wrong you'd be on your own (like getting forced to check your carry-on bag all the way through to Salt Lake City).
But for your specific example, there's no way to skip the first leg.
posted by reeddavid at 5:23 PM on October 19, 2019
Try booking the flight as multi-city. You can tell them which day you want to fly each leg and build in the extra days in LA by picking the date for the second leg a few days after the first leg.
posted by soelo at 11:13 AM on October 20, 2019
posted by soelo at 11:13 AM on October 20, 2019
Response by poster: Thanks, all. I won't skip the first leg.
I still find the pricing bizarre.
Toronto to Vanuatu via FLIGHT 123 out of LAX - $750.
LA to Vanuatu via FLIGHT 123 $900.
posted by dobbs at 5:57 AM on October 21, 2019
I still find the pricing bizarre.
Toronto to Vanuatu via FLIGHT 123 out of LAX - $750.
LA to Vanuatu via FLIGHT 123 $900.
posted by dobbs at 5:57 AM on October 21, 2019
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posted by pazazygeek at 7:21 AM on October 19, 2019 [9 favorites]