Typing as bottleneck. Will dictation software help? Will anything else?
October 16, 2019 6:58 AM   Subscribe

Like every person in the world, a huge amount of my job and life consists of typing. Mostly emails, but also occasional reports, web copy, whatever. And like every person in the world: I have too much to do, and not enough time to do it in. I often feel the greatest bottleneck to my daily productivity is just the speed with which my fingers can type (around maybe 50 wpm). I’m curious how other folks have dealt with this: Learning to type faster? Using text expanders? Dictation software? Something else?

A few things about me:

- I’ve tried a few times to learn to get better at typing without much success. I seem stuck around 45 wpm or so, with so-so accuracy (I don’t look at the keyboard. I don’t use all my fingers the way I should). I’ve used Mavis Beacon and some online training things. It’s hard to find the time to stick with them, and even when I do, my progress seems very slow.

- I don’t have any particular injury or disability that stops me from typing.

- I don’t really like typing. It often feels like a chore.

A few q’s

- I’m curious about people in my position who use dictation software. Has it worked? What are the pros and cons? Any suggestions? (I feel like most people I hear about are people who can’t type, due to carpal tunnel or some other injury. That’s not me) I’d be happy to pay for software if it’d help. It seems like a magical solution, but I gather not many people use it, and I wonder why.

- I’m also curious about any other ways people address the unpleasantness/slowness of typing.

- Any other tips?
posted by ManInSuit to Computers & Internet (38 answers total) 7 users marked this as a favorite
This may not be *exactly* what you're looking for, but I've gone to dictating almost all of my text messages. Yeah, it's a little weird to dictate the commas, the periods, the question-marks, etc. but it certainly is much faster to get the words on the screen and get back to whatever I was doing.

I haven't done as much with short-form or long-form pieces, though because I work in an open environment and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to dictate with others nearby. Dictation speed would probably help here too, but dictation software really seems to do best with homophones and such with an uninterrupted flow of words.

I used ViaVoice for the Mac ~20 years ago, and Dragon Naturally Speaking on the Mac, and I can say that the dictation capabilities built into macOS itself (with no third-party software) are impressively accurate, and certainly would be faster than my hand-typed speed, even if I still had to do some editing afterwards. My tip would be to invest in a good quality headset microphone if you are going to be in a place that's likely to have background noise. Otherwise, the microphone built into your computer may be sufficient for casual use.

If you're looking for humorous but informative reviews, check out David Pogue's reviews of Dragon Naturally Speaking. He's been doing them for years.
posted by Wild_Eep at 7:12 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

Do you often type the same sentence or paragraph? I read an article recently about how customer service teams greatly speed their response times by creating macros of common responses.
posted by spindrifter at 7:13 AM on October 16, 2019 [4 favorites]

Also recommended: TextExpander. You type a short trigger phrase, and it types a custom response that you define in advance. Great for commonly-used responses, or for 'personal-shorthand'.
posted by Wild_Eep at 7:18 AM on October 16, 2019 [5 favorites]

Best answer: The only way to get better at typing is to stick with it. I took it in high school, and have spent my life at a keyboard, so I type super super fast -- ~90-100 wpm, with very good accuracy. I can type much faster than I can write legibly, and have used typing as my main method of composition for 30+ years.

Dictation software is better now than it's ever been, but it's still spotty. And, obviously, you kind of need to be alone to do it -- it's not like you can work in a coffeeshop or an airport with it, and if you're in an open-plan office situation using it would make you pretty unpopular very quickly.

But yeah, my advice would be to take another run at learning to type properly. It's a seriously valuable skill. It's possible that there exist classroom instruction opportunities that might fit your learning style better than self-directed things like Mavis Beacon. It's worth trying for sure.
posted by uberchet at 7:19 AM on October 16, 2019 [14 favorites]

I'd say that the keyboard makes a difference, too. I'm faster on a mechanical keyboard than I am on a keyboard with rubber dome switches. If you spend your whole day typing, it's worth looking into a nice keyboard.
posted by vitout at 7:21 AM on October 16, 2019 [7 favorites]

I came in to say the same thing as vitout. I picked up a cheap mechanical keyboard a year or so ago, and it's made a huge difference.
posted by gregr at 7:26 AM on October 16, 2019 [2 favorites]

The only way to get better at typing is to practice a lot. If you practice every day, you will get better. But you really have to put the time into it and to keep it up. And you have to learn where to put your fingers and focus on doing it correctly.

I'm old enough that I first learned to type on a manual typewriter using a record that told me which numbers to type (I can still hear the voice saying F F F, J J J), after which I took a class. There are lots of tutorials online for typing practice. It's an unbelievably useful skill.
posted by FencingGal at 7:30 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

It depends on what I’m writing! Most anything I write will not improve if I write it faster, but I am usually pretty interested in keeping quality and clarity high. And for me, I can’t do that any faster even if I could type faster, any more than I could extemporaneously recite a good report on a complex subject in one take.

My point is: consider that typing is a useful bottleneck, unless you want your writing to come off as though little thought or preparation went into it.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:30 AM on October 16, 2019 [2 favorites]

I'll nth using TextExpander or similar software. If there's _anything_ you find yourself typing repeatedly, it can be a lifesaver. I've got snippets on my work machine for nearly every recurring thing I have to type as a message, as well as some HTML and CSS coding stuff. I also use snippets for my email address, physical address, and even my name.
posted by SansPoint at 7:41 AM on October 16, 2019

I’m curious about people in my position who use dictation software. [...] It seems like a magical solution, but I gather not many people use it, and I wonder why.

My (somewhat extensive) experience with it was that I found it a frustrating and unpleasant way to work. I think it works better for some voices than others, I hated having to correct things all the time and to dictate punctuation, both of which felt like they kept me at a remove from my full train of thought, if that makes sense -- and I also just hated having to talk so much. This might not be your experience, though, so you certainly might as well give it a try.

At the same time, as someone who types very fast, the idea of liking or not liking it feels strange to me because when I type my fingers just move automatically and I basically don't think about it at all. After speaking, it's the most invisible way I have to express myself in terms of the cognitive load it carries. It definitely could be worth devoting something like a year to just practicing typing a lot to see if you can get to that point in terms of speed and invisibility.
posted by trig at 7:51 AM on October 16, 2019 [4 favorites]

Best answer: Here's a previous AskMe about speeding up typing with lots of good advice.
posted by mustardayonnaise at 7:54 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

What made me the 100 WPM typist I am was being in a very specific cohort of folks who were teenagers when IMing came on the scene. Do you have anything compelling in your life that would force you to type a lot? Do you know someone that you would like chatting with online?

There are quite a few typing programs online, as you've seen. I like typingclub.com best. They have a placement test so you can skip the lessons you don't need. And yes, I still use it from time to time, for a tune-up.
posted by fiercecupcake at 7:56 AM on October 16, 2019 [6 favorites]

You can try out speech to text for free pretty easily, if you can stand it being internet-enabled. Google docs will do it, Dragon Anywhere has a free two-week trial, there's some iOS apps that are similar.

Everyone I know who writes actual books and papers with speech dictation understands that you're never getting more than a first draft. You will have to find time to sit down and turn it into properly-formatted sensible English. I don't know that this is truly efficient for things like emails and web copy UNLESS you have pools of time in your work life where you can't be at a keyboard but have time to talk. Maybe you do - maybe you could fit in some treadmill time every day if you did this, or maybe you're a teaching academic who has to walk to other buildings on campus/have a long walk from a parking lot, or have a long commute.

I think dedicating time to more typing training is probably a better use of your time, and possibly also trying out some different keyboards including lightly and more seriously ergonomic models.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:04 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

I’m curious about people in my position who use dictation software.

I don't know what platform you use, but when I had a shoulder injury I switched almost entirely to Apple's accessibility speech to text feature and was really surprised at how accurate and super fast it was. I am a quick typist but an error-prone one and I still use speech to text for texting most of the time. When I'm sending email I use a LOT of what gmail calls "Canned responses" (I think you can enable it in Labs). The big downside to dictation is you usually need to be somewhere somewhat quiet to use it. I can't really easily text this way from a library or a crowded subway (and people can overhear me which I rarely care about but might matter). I'm pretty sure the accessibility features of Windows machines also have this option, maybe try it out and see if it feels like a weight is off your shoulders?
posted by jessamyn at 8:14 AM on October 16, 2019

Response by poster: Thanks!! A couple things to add:

- I work from home, alone. My job involves a fair amount of talking on the phone. So my work naturally happens in a quiet place where I can talk.

- I'm 51 years old, and busy as hell. Maybe incorrectly, this makes me feel averse to learning to type. My automatic response is "Sure! Learn to type when you are 16, and you have a ton of free time, and your brain is fast at learning, and you have 65 years to reap the rewards of this time-investment. But now - I have less time for this stuff, and it'll take more time/effort for my old brain to learn, and I only have 25 years to reap the rewards...." This is very possibly a counter-productive line of thinking...

- I run Windows 10 mostly (and have a Samsung phone)
posted by ManInSuit at 8:20 AM on October 16, 2019

Oh, yeah, I think your second point is backward. You have limited time - wouldn't you rather spend less of it hunting and pecking typing? It may be because you don't know yet what it feels like to not have to think about typing at all. Once you master touch-typing, it's like words go directly from your brain to the screen.
posted by fiercecupcake at 8:23 AM on October 16, 2019 [4 favorites]

I'm 51 years old, and busy as hell. Maybe incorrectly, this makes me feel averse to learning to type.

I understand that thinking - but it's misplaced, IMO. Yeah, you're probably not going to get 65 years out of it unless we have some amazing medical advances or you have amazing health. But even 20-30 years is worth it, no? Even 10 to 15, really.

When I was a little younger I made a comment to a friend about starting something and "I'll be 40 before I finish." And they said "and how old will you be if you don't do it?"

The best time to learn to type is when you're young. The next best time is right now, to paraphrase a popular saying.
posted by jzb at 8:26 AM on October 16, 2019 [5 favorites]

A different keyboard layout may increase your speed some, though you would have to learn the layout. Dvorak is one of the alternatives for English keyboard layouts.
posted by carrioncomfort at 8:41 AM on October 16, 2019

This is very possibly a counter-productive line of thinking...
Yeah, not gonna be a helpful POV. The idea that being older keeps you from learning, or from taking up anything, is not really true -- but it'll sure become self-fulfilling if you let it.
posted by uberchet at 8:44 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Even if you only had five years to use it, it would be worth it, IMHO. Imagine! Five full years, where every single day the words almost magically leapt straight from your brain to the screen. Seconding that that's what good touch-typing feels like.

I just cannot imagine how frustrating it must be to have to think consciously about how to type rather than have it just happen - it's so worth giving yourself that gift if you can. And not just trying to get faster as you are, but - if it's at all possible - learning and forcing yourself onto the correct keys and then working up from there.

From what I remember of learning shorthand, if you want to increase your speed, you need to practice in a way that forces you to type faster than you currently are, even if that means tripping over the letters a little. I'm sure typing programs cover all that, but it's worth saying - a lot of your practice is a mess because you're trying to force yourself to go just a bit too fast, and it seems impossible you'll ever get off your plateau. But keep chipping away and trying to go faster than you think you can as you practice, and your brain will gradually speed up, and it'll happen.
posted by penguin pie at 9:08 AM on October 16, 2019

Best answer: Oh! And as with all things practice-related, little and often is what works. Switch your computer on 10 minutes early every day and practice.
posted by penguin pie at 9:09 AM on October 16, 2019 [3 favorites]

You're only half as slow as some of the fastest typers who have posted here, I really don't think it's that significant of a change to do, you're still going to be spending too much time typing. Macros and dictation seem like better routes for you from what you've said. Some kind of predictive text software might be helpful like on phones, but I don't personally know of one for PCs.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:16 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

I'm about your age. I never learned to touch-type properly—instead I do what I call "touch hunt-and-peck." I comfortably type at about 60 wpm, not a lot faster than you. My job is all about typing, all the time, and I don't feel like my typing speed is slowing me down. But it's also not something I mind doing, so maybe attitude is a component here.

Keystroke expanders are great. There are a lot of options out there, and I recommend finding one and learning its ins and outs.

In my own limited experience, I found dictation to be slow and frustrating. I know that others have made it work for them. I've got a colleague who has put a huge amount of effort into making it work for him, and I know he's very persnickety about headsets, software, etc, and can quantify how accurate different mics are with dictation.
posted by adamrice at 10:34 AM on October 16, 2019

I use Talon with Dragon for Mac to program, and dictation hasn't so much been about speed as it has been about health. It takes a lot of time, adjustment and money to get to a place where offline speech recognition works well. I still type, using recognition as a supplement, but even for basic English dictation I find it frustrating. At least, more frustrating than my typing. (Which is sloppy, but still touch typing.)

While you have the physical ability to type on a keyboard, I'd recommend learning to touch type, both to make that process gentler on yourself, and to improve your speed.

Also, text snippets / expanders are huge. I had a set I used to provide technical support, and it was very nice to change ",hi ,sorry ,looking ,bye" to "Hi! I'm sorry to hear you had problems. Someone is looking into the issue, and will get back to you. Thank you, Name"
posted by Anonymous Function at 10:46 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

I have an email folder called “form letters” full of boilerplate for 5-6 common emails I get that are easy to have a generic version of. Hang some individualized info at the beginning and maybe add a sentence that pertains to a specific question they asked, and it still takes at least half the time. Having it expand automatically would make it even faster.
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:38 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

People have mentioned formatting and editing and that doesn't go away with voice recognition. A lot of the time I spend writing things is spent revising so there is that and it is annoying. But if the output is supposed to be coherent and informative it is difficult to avoid.

As for the act of typing. I can type a lot faster than I can handwrite and unlike my handwriting, things I type are legible and I can share them with others with ease. So I spend a lot of time typing. The good thing about typing is that it relies heavily on muscle memory. What makes it feel like learning is that all processes that rely on muscle memory start out as a motions or sequences of motions you have to think about - not dissimilar to learning to walk, dance, drive, swim, hit a golf ball, draw, use a knife etc. Once the motions have become second nature they no longer require conscious effort. From what you're saying you started on that journey but stopped before the process had become second nature. So chances are that you only have a small gap to fill. But you do need to want to fill it.

So embrace the challenge. And yes, not all keyboards are designed equally and not all are equally nice to type on. Figure out what gives you the most pleasant typing experience.
posted by koahiatamadl at 11:43 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

As a fellow slow-typer, I recommend creating as many autocorrects as you can. Any long words that you use frequently can be autocorrected to populate when you type just three or four letters.
posted by Clustercuss at 11:55 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

I just posted my own tangentially-related ask yesterday; I have experience using Dragon NaturallySpeaking, a voice recognition software. We are dictating whole texts though, not regular correspondence, but it should be compatible with this use.

The version we use even has features specifically made for email dictation, like asking to import a bunch of your past emails so it can learn your vocabulary (I imagine it's specifically interested in which proper nouns keep coming up in your writing, and how they are spelled).

That being said, I know that while it is (mostly) compatible with the Microsoft suite, it might not let you "input" the text you dictate directly in just any program/window – in those cases, you first have to get your speech written out in a dictation box, which will then be copy/pasted where you wanted it.

The latest versions' voice recognition has gotten better by leaps and bounds (caveat, I use the French version), but it still is an effort and time-consuming proposition to set up. You have to learn how to work with it, and it needs to adapt to your voice and vocabulary.

I can picture it working better for you than I (I happen to have to dictate extremely varied texts so it can never really learn useful special vocabulary, and I'm sure the English version is the most polished), but you do express some difficulty learning new "tech" skills – unless it only is just typing that you can't get the hang of?

I'd suggest maybe running a few videos of people working with dictation software (it doesn't have to be Dragon), so you can see how complicated it looks like in the day-to-day?

I do think it could definitely work out for you, depending on if you can get past the initial technical hurdles of learning to use the software. And also, if you keep in mind that you must always double-check what you have dictated – the computer will inevitably make mistakes, even after years of use, and it's really easy to slur or drop a word while talking.
posted by CelebrenIthil at 11:59 AM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

I learned how to type when I was 8 years old and can bang out well over 100 words per minute if I'm just copying text. But as a physician, a lot of my work ends up being dictated. There is a lot of variability in efficiency, depending on what your setup is. As a resident, we had to dictate admission notes and discharge summaries, and I could never get fast enough at it to make it worth dictating as I was leafing through weeks of hospital records. That was more of a phone dictation/transcription deal, and it was never worth the time that I had to go back and proofread transcription errors, so I mostly just ended up typing things.

Now as an attending, I use real-time dictation with Dragon, and it gets about 90% of things right, but it's right there, so I can correct it instead of waiting for a transcript to post. It has a hard time with proper names and anything vaguely non-Caucasian sounding, and it frequently misrecognizes my speaking voice, but it's easy enough to correct.
posted by honeybee413 at 12:30 PM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

I type 80-90 wpm and I still use dictation software when I'm in a situation where I have to type more than a few hundred words at one whack to save wear-and-tear on my aging tendons and whatnot. I find the speed is a little bit better as well, even figuring in having to go back and correct (I mean, you presumably go back and re-read/edit what you type anyhow--it's just part of that process). I think Google voice recognition is pretty decent these days--better than the Microsoft voice recognition built into Windows 10. In Google docs, it's easy to turn on voice input (under "Tools") if you have any sort of microphone input, although a decent microphone will give you better results. Give it a whack to see what you think.
posted by drlith at 12:57 PM on October 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

Best answer: - I’ve tried a few times to learn to get better at typing without much success. I seem stuck around 45 wpm or so, with so-so accuracy (I don’t look at the keyboard. I don’t use all my fingers the way I should). I’ve used Mavis Beacon and some online training things. It’s hard to find the time to stick with them, and even when I do, my progress seems very slow.
- I don’t have any particular injury or disability that stops me from typing.
- I don’t really like typing. It often feels like a chore.

Uh, if a coworker, student, younger relative, etc. offered this as an explanation regarding their lackluster progress in learning a commonplace-yet-valuable business skill that will pay significant dividends in productivity, what advice would you give them? Because I know that I would kindly suggest that they're going to have to just buckle down and put more consistent effort into it. Building muscle memory isn't an instant-presto phenomenon.

Dictation is not a magical solution. If you dictate, you're still going to have to correct the output significantly, and you'll still frustrated by your inefficient hunt-and-peck.
posted by desuetude at 1:05 PM on October 16, 2019 [3 favorites]

I am a fast touch typist (but error prone). And I've played with dictation in Google docs. I can see that if I got used to it, it would be way faster than typing. Fixing errors or formatting would be no worse than with typing.

So I agree you need to sink time into becoming fast and comfortable with something, but I recommend spending that time on getting used to dictating.

The only reason I haven't is that I'm already able to type faster than I can think. (For my kind of work, I have to think about each sentence for ages), so typing isn't a bottleneck. And actually dictation makes me nervous, like the machine is drumming its fingers waiting for me to hurry up and say something.
posted by lollusc at 8:46 PM on October 16, 2019

Best answer: I'm a very fast typist, and have been typing a lot, nearly every day, for 30+ years. It is a useful skill and I still (over)use it instinctively. However, the reality is that modern dictation software is both easier to learn and, with few exceptions, faster to use than touch typing, and it's only going to get better. More than this, using voice to control your computer through personalised shortcuts can speed up your workflow much more easily than developing and learning a bunch of chorded keyboard commands ever will. Dragon Naturally Speaking supports this very effectively.

You do have to learn to dictate for voice recognition to be a really useful tool. Composing chunks of sentences, including their punctuation, in your head, is not a natural process at first. It does take some time to get used to, but even taking that into account, most people will manage speeds above 45wpm almost immediately. Dictation is a real skill, that does need practice, but it is an easier skill to learn them touch typing.
posted by howfar at 5:18 AM on October 17, 2019

I'm an extremely fast typist (>100 wpm) because I learned when I was very young and then spent my entire young adulthood on the computer, but even I like to dictate sometimes now. I'm a doctor so for better or worse I do a tremendous amount of writing on the computer every day. When I'm fatigued my typing gets sloppier and feels more effortful so I'll often switch to dictation.

I notice that my writing style changes a lot depending on whether I'm typing or dictating; not necessarily good or bad, but definitely different. The nature of dictation is that you can't edit yourself nearly as much while you're doing it, which can be really helpful if you're feeling blocked (but less helpful if you're writing something that needs to be really on point).

As far as other methods besides dictation, I also use macros/dot phrases/whatever you want to call them, shortcuts that expand into text I use frequently. If that's the nature of the typing you do then I would say definitely go ahead and integrate that into your practice, because it's a huge waste of energy to type exactly the same thing over and over, but it requires some upfront investment of energy to create the macros and train yourself to use them.
posted by telegraph at 4:41 PM on October 17, 2019

Response by poster: Thanks!! I realize one tacit assumption I'd had, too, about getting better at typing was "Surely we won't keep interacting with our computers this way in The Future". Some people seem to be addressing that in their comments: That dictation software is getting better and will probably keep doing so.

I think a big point I'm getting here is that anything I do is going to require some investment: It takes some time and work to get better at typing and to learn to use dictation software, and to set up textexpander systems.

My feeling, after reading this thread, is that all of these investments may be worth it. These comments have been super-helpful. Thanks!!!
posted by ManInSuit at 7:30 AM on October 18, 2019 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: So, here's my resolution: My plan is to use keybr.com, practicing 10 to 30 minutes a day, 5 to 7 days a week. My plan right now is to commit to this for at least 3 months, and check in then, but to think of it as a year-long project.

Based on what others have pointed out, this is potentially in investment that will pay off pretty quickly. My hope is that by the end of the year, if I work like this, to be able to type around 80 wpm, and also to experience typing as more fun and less effortful than I do now. From what I've read, that seems like a not-unrealistic hope. And that feels to me like it'd definitely be worth the investment.

Right now, I'm just over a week into the process. I'm finding it fun.

An original objection I had was that I was too busy. But I find it's easy to find time to practice for 5 to 15 minutes at a time. For now, at least, Typing practice feels like a fun break from other work. So I think it ends up eating into time I'd otherwise spend procrastinating or screwing around on social media, not time I'd spend on other productive, important things.

I'll maybe look into dictation software, too. But focusing on typing skills is my first step.
posted by ManInSuit at 9:58 AM on October 27, 2019 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: (Having written the above comment, I found myself wondering what justification there was for waiting to look into dication software. So I got a copy of Dragon Naturally Speaking, and will experiment with that in the coming weeks. So far - it seems pretty cool. Dictation software sure does get better all the time...)
posted by ManInSuit at 12:37 PM on October 27, 2019

Response by poster: Because I am taking this on is a year-long project, I thought it might be a good idea to check in occasionally on this, for anyone who wants to follow up on this thread.

About a month and a half in:

- I continue to work on my typing practice. Progress is coming along. I'm trying to really focus on accuracy, rather than speed. And to be patient: to really understand that the goal is not to get better today, but to be better in like a year from now. So on any given day, my goal is a process goal: to show up and practice. It's going pretty well I think. (I have decided not to worry about my day-to-day typing. I use correct form when I practice and do whatever I want in regular typing. I find the good habits from the practice are gradually starting to seep into my day-to-day. I expect that trend will continue, and am trying to be patient about it)

- I've also started using Dragon Dictate. I really like it! As others have suggested in this thread, it's not a replacement for typing in all contexts. But it's really nice to have a couple of options for how to get text into the computer: for most stuff, typing is better. At least for now. But being able to dictate text has also really changed what's possible for me on the computer. I find I use Dragon a lot for longer, informal things, like longish email updates. Or this post! Which I am dictating. I've always admired people who can, when needed, toss off a five-paragraph email easily. Dragon has helped me become one of those people.

One random piece of advice for anyone checking this thread who wants to use dictation software: you get different kinds of errors when dictating than you do when typing. For me: when I dictate, I get mistakes that are embarrassing to me. Like "then" instead of "than". I don't do that when I type. Also you get weird typos where the wrong word shows up completely, which I think are likely to be a lot more confusing to the reader and the sorts of typos you get when you type. So you have to proofread differently. I find it's taking just a little bit of work to get used to, but it's not that bad.

Thanks to everyone who had suggestions here! This really all does feel tremendously helpful, with stuff that affect my working life every single day. What a great pleasure!
posted by ManInSuit at 8:25 AM on December 10, 2019 [2 favorites]

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