Mr. 40, E and Mr. $hort, Too?

October 13, 2019 6:46 AM

What is the correct way to refer to persons in writing with non-"traditional" names, say, stage/performance names like the rappers "Too Short" and "E-40"?

Reading this article in the Chronicle today, I see they refer to Too $hort and E-40 initially by their "full" names, and later just as "40" and "$hort." Is there a rule for this? And on the basis of the convention employed by the Chronicle here, they would also be indexed/alphabetized/referenced as authors as "40, E." and "$hort, T."--is that correct?

posted by stillmoving to Writing & Language (15 answers total)

I will use Tom Lehrer as my authority here, as per his communication with 2 Chainz.

Lehrer said he was "very proud" to have his song sampled "literally sixty years after I recorded it". Lehrer went on to describe his official response to the request to use his song: "As sole copyright owner of 'The Old Dope Peddler', I grant you motherfuckers permission to do this. Please give my regards to Mr. Chainz, or may I call him 2?"
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:33 AM on October 13, 2019 [22 favorites]

This is a "what does your publications style guide say?" question and not one with a single right answer. A lot of styles keep the stage name intact throughout (so that, contrary to the old joke, Meat Loaf stays Meat Loaf throughout, and isn't Mr. Loaf after the first mention). The Chronicle's apparently doesn't.

If you're not following a style guide someone else wrote, pick one and be consistent. I personally think breaking stage names up ($hort, Mr. Chainz, Mr. Loaf) feels either too pedantic or too sarcastically fake-pedantic for me to want to do it. But if you like it and you don't have an editor or a style guide to answer to, go for it.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:53 AM on October 13, 2019 [11 favorites]

I also see usage of non-stage names, such that Jay-Z becomes Mr. Carter or Carter, for example.
posted by papayaninja at 8:05 AM on October 13, 2019 [7 favorites]

I personally think breaking stage names up ($hort, Mr. Chainz, Mr. Loaf) feels either too pedantic or too sarcastically fake-pedantic for me to want to do it.

I'd agree with this. Use the performers full performer name, or their given name as appropriate.
posted by so fucking future at 8:49 AM on October 13, 2019 [3 favorites]

Don’t know that there’s a right answer but I remember being amused to note the New Yorker apparently breaks up stage names; they referred to Lil Nas X as Nas X. Link.
posted by ferret branca at 9:24 AM on October 13, 2019

nebulawindphone: "(so that, contrary to the old joke, Meat Loaf stays Meat Loaf throughout, and isn't Mr. Loaf after the first mention)"

FWIW, this was supposed to be the NYT, and they say it didn't happen (except as a joke headline).
posted by Chrysostom at 9:59 AM on October 13, 2019 [1 favorite]

I recall an interview with Sir Mix-a-lot during which he was referred to as 'Mr. A Lot,' and it was intended to be humorous. So I would say in a formal article you would use the full name consistently, or follow the style guide / editors direction.
posted by ananci at 10:30 AM on October 13, 2019 [1 favorite]

Same rules apply as they do for Proper first names as for pen names. If you arent familiar with them it would be rude to use nicknames with them unless you are maybe writing a fan zine or blog that is going to be full of references to the name then just use the name most often used by fans or radio stations. (Iggy Azalea ->Iggy; Puff Daddy -> Diddy; 50 Cent -> 50) by no means should you add Mr. Mrs, or any other prefix that wasnt told to you to use .. And hyphenated names and adjectives in place of names or symbols get no change unless you want to protect their identity .
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 10:58 AM on October 13, 2019

We attribute quotes to "Mark Twain," not Samuel Clemens. "Lewis Carroll," not Charles Dodgson. Not seeing this as a problem. You quote the work, the role, and not the person.
posted by SPrintF at 11:08 AM on October 13, 2019 [1 favorite]

"We attribute quotes to 'Mark Twain,' not Samuel Clemens. 'Lewis Carroll,' not Charles Dodgson. Not seeing this as a problem. You quote the work, the role, and not the person."

Maybe, but it's the person who is buying a sports team, winning an award, having a baby, suffering from mental illness, celebrating a birthday, etc... I suppose it's contextual, but there's definitely reason at some points to recognize the actual person instead of the act.
posted by papayaninja at 11:14 AM on October 13, 2019

Sure, but Mark Twain and Lewis Carroll are, although pseudonyms, generally recognized as consisting of a first and last name (even if "Mark Twain" was originally born as a set phrase rather than a personal name), and "Mr. Twain" is a fairly standard form of reference to the person of Samuel Clemens. Interpreting "Too $hort" as a first and a last name is kind of a stretch, by contrast.

I was hoping to find a non-pseudonymous example but there seem to be very few people with legal multi-word names in which some part isn't properly treatable as a family name; people with a single legal name seem to be generally referred to, in print, exclusively by that name with no honorific (there's no style-guide crisis about how to refer to "Cher" or"Teller", or "Sting"; apparently calling "U Thant" Mr. Thant is, if not ideal, within the boundaries of acceptable style).
posted by jackbishop at 11:37 AM on October 13, 2019

I would consider a stage name outside of the norm to be more akin to an Honourific title like Queen Elizabeth II. You never shorten it to Ms. Elizabeth or Mrs Windsor. Celebrity is the new royalty and and that...
posted by saucysault at 1:23 PM on October 13, 2019 [2 favorites]

Jackbishop has a good point. These are not [given name][surname] situations. Treating then as such is amusing, but it's really more analogous with artists who go by one name (Madonna, Cher, etc) though in this case the name is multiple words. No one is going to tell you to use 'Mrs. Cher'
posted by ananci at 2:15 PM on October 13, 2019

This could be a case-by-case thing, honestly. Data point: I happen to know that Ice Cube (born O'Shea Jackson) strongly prefers being referred to as "Cube." Not "Mr. Cube" or "Mr. Jackson," but "Cube."
posted by Dr. Wu at 12:12 PM on October 14, 2019

This is running somewhat into the disparities between western nomenclature and what's acceptable in the wider world, vis-a-vis firstname/lastname versus other conventions. For example, in some parts of the spanish speaking world many people have three names, the middle of which is not the same as a middle name would be in the US (e.g., both a patronymic and a matronymic). In Asia often the familial name is written first (hence WONG Kar-Wai, which is sometimes written as Kar-Wai Wong in western media). Never mind one-named folks like Sting and Cher. Generally the most sensitive thing to do is to allow for the person's own expression of their preferred nomenclature to win out over trying to cram everything into a universal box, though where it makes sense you can apply things like Mr. before a family name (e.g., "Mr Wong" but not "Mr Sting" and "Mr Chainz" except for comedic effect).
posted by axiom at 3:21 PM on October 14, 2019