AI for marriage
August 27, 2019 8:07 AM Subscribe
My relationship is deeply unhealthy, but we are trying one more time to repair what is broken before we proceed with a divorce. Requesting marriage support options that are cost effective while we make one last effort. Details below the fold.
We are both in 1:1 therapy. I don't want to invest in additional couples therapy before my partner has made some significant progress in 1:1 due to the expense and how I barely have any hope that things can improve. Him getting treatment first is the only new variable, so I want to give that time.
I don't want to be married, and there are plenty of reasons not to be married to this person, but I've got enough ambivalence to try solutions once more. The plan is to eventually pursue one more bout of couples counseling but that is a significant cost and not covered by insurance.
We have agreed to try some kind of structured self help program while we wait until couples counseling will have any possibility of helping. I am seeking recommendations for AI marriage tools, virtual web based apps or virtual workshops.
If you have tried something that helped your relationship besides synchronous traditional marital counseling please share. We will be getting some options together. I do not think reading books together and discussing them will work for Reasons so no need to recommend books. I am rather seeking structured apps and virtual workshops or "bootcamps."
Options being considered so far include the Lasting app and the web program Weconcile which is based on validated couples counseling models like EFT. I would love to find a similar resource that is based on Gottman's research but so far haven't found one.
We do not need infidelity support. We do need help with dysregulation, communication, toxic shame, conflict avoidance, and managing the impact of anxiety and severe ADHD.
If you are coming here to say DTMFA please keep scrolling. I am tempted enough to give up without people saying that to me. There is a possibility that my spouse's individual counseling will actually make a functional relationship possible and I have chosen to wait and see if that is the case.
We are both in 1:1 therapy. I don't want to invest in additional couples therapy before my partner has made some significant progress in 1:1 due to the expense and how I barely have any hope that things can improve. Him getting treatment first is the only new variable, so I want to give that time.
I don't want to be married, and there are plenty of reasons not to be married to this person, but I've got enough ambivalence to try solutions once more. The plan is to eventually pursue one more bout of couples counseling but that is a significant cost and not covered by insurance.
We have agreed to try some kind of structured self help program while we wait until couples counseling will have any possibility of helping. I am seeking recommendations for AI marriage tools, virtual web based apps or virtual workshops.
If you have tried something that helped your relationship besides synchronous traditional marital counseling please share. We will be getting some options together. I do not think reading books together and discussing them will work for Reasons so no need to recommend books. I am rather seeking structured apps and virtual workshops or "bootcamps."
Options being considered so far include the Lasting app and the web program Weconcile which is based on validated couples counseling models like EFT. I would love to find a similar resource that is based on Gottman's research but so far haven't found one.
We do not need infidelity support. We do need help with dysregulation, communication, toxic shame, conflict avoidance, and managing the impact of anxiety and severe ADHD.
If you are coming here to say DTMFA please keep scrolling. I am tempted enough to give up without people saying that to me. There is a possibility that my spouse's individual counseling will actually make a functional relationship possible and I have chosen to wait and see if that is the case.
I don't know if this quite meets your qualifications but if you can't attend an in-person Gottman workshop, they do have materials so you can work through everything yourself.
The other app I've seen is Relish, but I cannot offer a personal recommendation.
posted by emkelley at 9:10 AM on August 27, 2019 [3 favorites]
The other app I've seen is Relish, but I cannot offer a personal recommendation.
posted by emkelley at 9:10 AM on August 27, 2019 [3 favorites]
I did an online program called Power of Two. At the time it was too focused on communication for our marriage’s needs but it was useful in that area.
Best of luck.
posted by OrangeVelour at 9:15 AM on August 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
Best of luck.
posted by OrangeVelour at 9:15 AM on August 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
FWIW, my spouse _hated_ EFT and I really appreciated EFT for the way it treated our marriage holistically. I think I understand that EFT tends to think in term of cyclical patterns in relationship communication difficulties. For that reason I feel like I was trying to be a full partner in the counseling and own my part of our problems. My opinion is that my spouse was much more interested in our situation being my fault. To our therapist's credit she stopped our combined EFT-based counseling and recommended we both see a therapist individually until we were ready to re-try EFT.
I don't say this to discourage EFT. I found it to be tremendously helpful. I'm much more able to see cycles of behavior in our conflict. While they are difficult to break out of in the midst of an argument I am able to reflect on conflict and evaluate what I could have done differently to foster more effective communication. My spouse and I did a two-day intensive with one of the counselors listed on this page. It was just us and the therapist. Please feel free to memail me if you want my feedback about my experience.
I continue my individual counseling. My spouse does not. If I may, I tend to take responsibility for the difficulties in my marriage. If this is something that with which you also identify I would suggest you spend time talking about this with your one-on-one therapist. My therapist and I spend a lot of time talking about self-compassion (and I think I'm starting to think in terms of self-esteem/self-compassion). I hope you are able to see that your marriage difficulties are bidirectional and that you don't bear the responsibly of assuming blame or cause for the problems. Good luck. You are not alone. Thank you for the question. The answers may help me as well.
posted by sp_w at 11:59 AM on August 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
I don't say this to discourage EFT. I found it to be tremendously helpful. I'm much more able to see cycles of behavior in our conflict. While they are difficult to break out of in the midst of an argument I am able to reflect on conflict and evaluate what I could have done differently to foster more effective communication. My spouse and I did a two-day intensive with one of the counselors listed on this page. It was just us and the therapist. Please feel free to memail me if you want my feedback about my experience.
I continue my individual counseling. My spouse does not. If I may, I tend to take responsibility for the difficulties in my marriage. If this is something that with which you also identify I would suggest you spend time talking about this with your one-on-one therapist. My therapist and I spend a lot of time talking about self-compassion (and I think I'm starting to think in terms of self-esteem/self-compassion). I hope you are able to see that your marriage difficulties are bidirectional and that you don't bear the responsibly of assuming blame or cause for the problems. Good luck. You are not alone. Thank you for the question. The answers may help me as well.
posted by sp_w at 11:59 AM on August 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
If your partner is actually open to reading something and working on change, I would suggest How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It.
Like the title says, it looks are core attachment issues for men and women and help you understand both your piece and your partners and then gives you very specific things you can do to help avoid unintentionally triggering your partner's core issues. Good news - you can read it and make changes in your own part. More importantly, he can read it and make changes on his part without having to read it together.
The changes won't address the big issues but they can really help deescalate things and support having the hard conversations in a less triggering fashion.
The biggest caveat is that it has a specific view of how "men" and "women" are and assumes that the relationship has one of each. I think it is right about 75% of the time, but whenever I recommend it, I always recommend people look it over first and make sure it fits before recommending to their partner. If you or your partner are both the same gender or more gender fluid, you would have to look more closely to see how much of it is useful.
posted by metahawk at 12:07 PM on August 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
Like the title says, it looks are core attachment issues for men and women and help you understand both your piece and your partners and then gives you very specific things you can do to help avoid unintentionally triggering your partner's core issues. Good news - you can read it and make changes in your own part. More importantly, he can read it and make changes on his part without having to read it together.
The changes won't address the big issues but they can really help deescalate things and support having the hard conversations in a less triggering fashion.
The biggest caveat is that it has a specific view of how "men" and "women" are and assumes that the relationship has one of each. I think it is right about 75% of the time, but whenever I recommend it, I always recommend people look it over first and make sure it fits before recommending to their partner. If you or your partner are both the same gender or more gender fluid, you would have to look more closely to see how much of it is useful.
posted by metahawk at 12:07 PM on August 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Metahawk, thanks, I've seen that book before. Unfortunately, I don't think I can maintain a satisfying relationship where the answer is for a woman to accommodate a man's stereotypical need to not talk. I prefer solutions that recognize both individuals have needs that are valid and provide exercises to help both get their needs met vs woman is subservient to man's preference and hopes in time she can get some feedback that she can then twist to fit what she actually needs. I need solutions that demand growth for both people vs accommodating one of them.
Not sharing to threadsit but to offer an angle that may be relevant for any additional suggestions. The partner being able to opt out of verbal intimacy while the one that needs it has to cater to their avoidance is part of why I'm on my last legs here.
posted by crunchy potato at 1:29 PM on August 27, 2019 [18 favorites]
Not sharing to threadsit but to offer an angle that may be relevant for any additional suggestions. The partner being able to opt out of verbal intimacy while the one that needs it has to cater to their avoidance is part of why I'm on my last legs here.
posted by crunchy potato at 1:29 PM on August 27, 2019 [18 favorites]
This is not from my firsthand experience but two of my close friends had success with Mort Fertel’s Marriage Max. Best of luck to you.
posted by Majorita at 4:49 PM on August 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Majorita at 4:49 PM on August 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
I forgot to mention Marriage Helper. I know they do online coaching (but I haven't done any of their coaching/courses/workshops). Their podcast mentions that they are Christians but I don't think they bill what they do as 'Christian' marriage counseling. Their podcast is interesting if you want to try to get a feel for their methodology.
posted by sp_w at 9:15 AM on August 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by sp_w at 9:15 AM on August 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
One thing I looked into during the disintegration of my own marriage was using MDMA as an adjunct to couples therapy. I never got a chance to use it though so i can't report on the efficacy but there are lots of articles out there if you google. I can't find the one I had read since it has been a few years since I considered this option.
posted by vespabelle at 1:35 PM on August 31, 2019
posted by vespabelle at 1:35 PM on August 31, 2019
Response by poster: Thanks all. We went with the Power of Two which is cute and my spouse finds the format useful.
MDMA is an interesting suggestion but sadly not workable for us at this time. Not to mention, my partner struggles with depression and MDMA can cause a huge rebound depressive episode. Sharing in case future researchers see this question to proceed with caution on that idea.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:47 AM on September 13, 2019
MDMA is an interesting suggestion but sadly not workable for us at this time. Not to mention, my partner struggles with depression and MDMA can cause a huge rebound depressive episode. Sharing in case future researchers see this question to proceed with caution on that idea.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:47 AM on September 13, 2019
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This isn't online, but the book Love Without Hurt by Steven Stosny has a "bootcamp" format and was the single most helpful book of the many we read during my marriage's decline. It seemed to move the needle with my husband in a way that other books' messages never did. The messages/learnings/techniques have been valuable to me ever since. Full disclosure that we did divorce--but I feel like this book's impact allowed things to change in such a way that made that the process it needed to be, if that makes any sense.
Best of luck to you both.
posted by Sublimity at 8:39 AM on August 27, 2019 [3 favorites]