Moving to Salt Lake City - Family edition
August 25, 2019 9:59 AM Subscribe
Considering a move to Salt Lake City for medical reasons. What’s good, bad, ugly for living and raising kids here?
We are currently in Salt Lake City for 2 months as one of our kids is getting certain medical support. For related reasons moving to Salt Lake City is preferable to continuing to live in California (Bay Area). Looking for advice on what is good, bad, ugly about having a young family and living here.
We are less concerned about which neighborhoods to live in (if we move here our choices are going to be driven by proximity to UoU for medical and some other factors related to being in the SLC school district boundary - so is going to be a little self selecting to the top right quadrant of that district preferred ). From what I can tell housing here is a 25%-50% discount to what we currently pay in the Bay..so affordability in an ok neighborhood doesn’t look to be an issue. Job market is not a factor (moving with current role/company)
From what I can tell so far (granted based on very limited three weeks)
Good
We are currently in Salt Lake City for 2 months as one of our kids is getting certain medical support. For related reasons moving to Salt Lake City is preferable to continuing to live in California (Bay Area). Looking for advice on what is good, bad, ugly about having a young family and living here.
We are less concerned about which neighborhoods to live in (if we move here our choices are going to be driven by proximity to UoU for medical and some other factors related to being in the SLC school district boundary - so is going to be a little self selecting to the top right quadrant of that district preferred ). From what I can tell housing here is a 25%-50% discount to what we currently pay in the Bay..so affordability in an ok neighborhood doesn’t look to be an issue. Job market is not a factor (moving with current role/company)
From what I can tell so far (granted based on very limited three weeks)
Good
- Very good kids facilities (Zoo, NHMU, Children’s Museum etc). Sitting in Liberty park as I write this and the kids are having a blast at the splash pad
- State taxes, gas pieces, and general cost of living seem way down on California
- Mountains are amazing (and no more five hour drives to Tahoe!)
- Seems family friendly / lots of family events easily accessible
- Snow cone’s at Bob’s Brain Freeze
- General outdoors activities and locality to drive to some amazing National Parks
- Weather can be stupid hot in summer and super cold in winter. Humidity can be non-existent (I’m almost scared to touch the metal handles of the local supermarket freezer - I keep getting zapped with static!)
- Non-religious isolation given the Mormon tradition here. We have talked to a few locals about this and seems like it can be an issue you need to factor - but is getting better / just means you have to perhaps factor it into where you live / where kids go to school etc.
- No ocean :-(
You’ll probably need to work harder and be more creative about finding groups/activities for your kids. The LDS kids in their classes will be heavily involved in church related activities and your kids may feel a little left out.
posted by doctord at 10:36 AM on August 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by doctord at 10:36 AM on August 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
You’re not wrong about aridity. As noted above, there is also our often-unhealthy, sometimes-downright-embarrassing air quality (summer fires/ground-level ozone, and winter temperature inversions/particulates). I also struggle with the moderate altitude. My ENT tells me this is “the trifecta” for a number of sinus/nose problems, and it seems like half the people I know carry inhalers. Don’t smoke? You effectively will, if you’re here in January or July.
You mention that you already know from crime in the Bay Area, so I won’t harp on this too much, but I will point out that we have less big-city culture to balance out our high rates of property crime, drug problems, and violence against women. I have felt much safer in larger cities walking alone at night than I have felt walking alone at midday in parts of our sleepy-creepy downtown. YMMV.
We can’t drive. No, really, I know a lot of places can’t drive, but we really, really can’t drive. Our unique flavour of bad driving is the “oblivious/solipsist” style. Assume half the people on the roads here are under the influence of Xanax. Situational awareness in general is...not our strong suit. People will barge onto buses and elevators without giving you a chance to exit first. People ride their bikes against traffic on the sidewalks in the dark without any lights. People stop dead in foot traffic. (Again, you might already be well-trained to navigate around this, or it may not bother you.)
One thing that might be neat for your kids, if they are artsy types: the performing arts are actually pretty well respected here. Tons of venues, and being a music or drama person doesn’t make you a pariah at most schools.
The religious influence in the city proper has very much diminished in recent years, but the rest of the state is another story. If you’re non-religious, you’ll have plenty of company in SLC, but if you’re not specifically a bitter ex-Mormon, you’ll still get that “outsider” feeling sometimes. And you might notice outsize degrees of misogyny and depression. You’re not imagining things; we have disproportionately high rates of suicide and the nation’s biggest gender pay gap.
Another downside: “stack them deep and teach them cheap.” Our public schools are overcrowded and underfunded, and they’re convenient whipping-boys for the state legislature. Our charter schools are variably-managed tax-revenue guzzlers — some come well-recommended, but others are surreal dumpster fires.
A lot of people really do love it here. People who love mountains and move here on purpose tend to love it here. I am not trying to talk you out of anything, and I admit that if the mountains disappeared tomorrow I’d be the last person to notice. Grain of salt, etc.
posted by armeowda at 10:40 AM on August 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
You mention that you already know from crime in the Bay Area, so I won’t harp on this too much, but I will point out that we have less big-city culture to balance out our high rates of property crime, drug problems, and violence against women. I have felt much safer in larger cities walking alone at night than I have felt walking alone at midday in parts of our sleepy-creepy downtown. YMMV.
We can’t drive. No, really, I know a lot of places can’t drive, but we really, really can’t drive. Our unique flavour of bad driving is the “oblivious/solipsist” style. Assume half the people on the roads here are under the influence of Xanax. Situational awareness in general is...not our strong suit. People will barge onto buses and elevators without giving you a chance to exit first. People ride their bikes against traffic on the sidewalks in the dark without any lights. People stop dead in foot traffic. (Again, you might already be well-trained to navigate around this, or it may not bother you.)
One thing that might be neat for your kids, if they are artsy types: the performing arts are actually pretty well respected here. Tons of venues, and being a music or drama person doesn’t make you a pariah at most schools.
The religious influence in the city proper has very much diminished in recent years, but the rest of the state is another story. If you’re non-religious, you’ll have plenty of company in SLC, but if you’re not specifically a bitter ex-Mormon, you’ll still get that “outsider” feeling sometimes. And you might notice outsize degrees of misogyny and depression. You’re not imagining things; we have disproportionately high rates of suicide and the nation’s biggest gender pay gap.
Another downside: “stack them deep and teach them cheap.” Our public schools are overcrowded and underfunded, and they’re convenient whipping-boys for the state legislature. Our charter schools are variably-managed tax-revenue guzzlers — some come well-recommended, but others are surreal dumpster fires.
A lot of people really do love it here. People who love mountains and move here on purpose tend to love it here. I am not trying to talk you out of anything, and I admit that if the mountains disappeared tomorrow I’d be the last person to notice. Grain of salt, etc.
posted by armeowda at 10:40 AM on August 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
My ex-girlfriend grew up in SLC and was constantly shut out socially because her family wasn't mormon. It's also very politically conservative and again, unpleasant to people who aren't. Check into the Cleveland Clinic, or Boston Children's. Both cities are more okay with diversity. Hell, I would take Rochester, MN over SLC.
posted by bile and syntax at 11:10 AM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by bile and syntax at 11:10 AM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Non LDS, moved from LA to SLC, lived at 9th and 9th for 10 years. SLC is amazing. I’d still be there if not for a work required move 3 years ago. It is so easy to make friends if you engage in the outdoors. Get Brighton passes (kid/family friendly, fewer tourists), figure out where all the awesome swimming holes are, and everyone you meet outside on Sunday mornings will share your belief system.
Embrace the good parts of LDS influence - kid friendly, beautiful gardens, farm fresh everything (food is damn good in SLC) and tons of volunteers when you need help. Read some LDS history, so you have some perspective on the good and bad. (No man knows my history is a good starting point). Never go to IKEA on Saturday.
I know a lot of smart successful Utah public school graduates. If the public schools don’t do it for you, Rowan Hall is nominally Catholic and very high end. Get thee to your nearest MTB kids and adult clubs. Learn to snowshoe and Nordic ski.
The inversion is awful. Put chapstick in your nose to adjust to aridity. You will need a Subaru and a herding dog for full UT citizenship, haha.
posted by chuke at 11:41 AM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Embrace the good parts of LDS influence - kid friendly, beautiful gardens, farm fresh everything (food is damn good in SLC) and tons of volunteers when you need help. Read some LDS history, so you have some perspective on the good and bad. (No man knows my history is a good starting point). Never go to IKEA on Saturday.
I know a lot of smart successful Utah public school graduates. If the public schools don’t do it for you, Rowan Hall is nominally Catholic and very high end. Get thee to your nearest MTB kids and adult clubs. Learn to snowshoe and Nordic ski.
The inversion is awful. Put chapstick in your nose to adjust to aridity. You will need a Subaru and a herding dog for full UT citizenship, haha.
posted by chuke at 11:41 AM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Quick correction: Rowland (not “Rowan”) Hall is not “nominally Catholic.” It was founded by an Episcopal bishop and is now an independent private school.
posted by armeowda at 11:50 AM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by armeowda at 11:50 AM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
@armeowda, thx, you are correct, my mistake. My nieces/ nephews attended, all were non religious and went on to good universities. I knew it started as a religious school, but was not really anymore.
posted by chuke at 12:09 PM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by chuke at 12:09 PM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks all. Great feedback
regular bouts of very bad air quality
Bummer - and it does give me pause. The air has been great last few weeks but checking in on the AQI ratings I can see it’s very high on average. None of us have breathing/repository issues (but we’d rather keep it that way!) - and we’ve dealt with extended periods of crappy air quality with wildfires north of us in CA - but overall average there is much better. Curious, do you find that you can mitigate it (partially at best) through really good air filtering in homes or is it just horrendous?
Check into the Cleveland Clinic, or Boston Children's
Oh that it was that easy. Children's behavioral health support relative to what we need is super bad most everywhere in the US best we can tell (less so the hospitals but it’s the pairing with out patient / wrap around programs integrated with public schools which evidently SLC has). If it was easy as a world class hospital I’d stay in the Bay Area and be down at Stanford Children’s in a heartbeat. There are maybe 2 or 3 cities in the US that have a good mix best we can tell (fairly exhaustive search by us and a paid placement consultant nationwide). Chicago was another choice - but I have strong desire not to live there for work related reasons and if I’m going to freeze in Winter I’d rather have decent skiing.
It certainly felt like one of the least welcoming places I've visited.
That sucks and it’s certainly something we are aware of - we aren’t POC but it’s a factor in our school selection - we are leaning towards a more diverse school with a “lower score” for that reason. An unfortunate element of our young child’s behavioral / autism issues is a tendency for people who don’t look the same as him making him confused and sometimes upset - long story about a well intentioned 1st grade school project and video on MLK’s life resulting in him associating POC with death :-( . It’s a goal we are working on with him and don’t want him in a mono-tonal class for that reason (amongst other reasons )
might be neat for your kids, if they are artsy types: the performing arts are actually pretty well respected here
Oh cool. That’s good to know. Both kids are very arty and we do a lot of dance and art therapy with them - so that’s a plus.
It's also very politically conservative and again, unpleasant to people who aren't.
I’ve heard - and certainly seen way more “I love the second amendment” type billboards etc which is jarring. I will say though SLC itself seems to have changed since the last time I came a decade ok - and the downtown seemed more diverse / very strongly pro LGBT etc. How much of that is marketing versus reality is hard for me to tell.
You will need a Subaru
Good thing it’s also the official car of Northern California as well, so our Outback with a skybox on the roof has us through to the semi-finals without dropping a set on that one :-)
Never go to IKEA on Saturday.
Wiser and more universally applicable words have never been said. We literally have to call it “super-secret Target” in our house - as even mentioning the name IKEA is pretty much grounds for divorce after the arguments my wife and I have had there about the most optimal way to pack flat pack boxes in the car.
We can’t drive
Funnily enough I was commentating to my wife that driving around seemed very easy compared to the Bay. But I think that may be a perception driven by lack of volume here. I imagine the significant amount of trucks on the highways may cause issues.
The crime thing is interesting and certainly something I need to read up on. As a white male I found downtown fine to amble around alone at midnight (even stopping to egg on a couple of lime scooter riders to jump a flight of stairs at the state capitol at 1am). But totally respect that my experience varies considerably from others on that.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:02 PM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
regular bouts of very bad air quality
Bummer - and it does give me pause. The air has been great last few weeks but checking in on the AQI ratings I can see it’s very high on average. None of us have breathing/repository issues (but we’d rather keep it that way!) - and we’ve dealt with extended periods of crappy air quality with wildfires north of us in CA - but overall average there is much better. Curious, do you find that you can mitigate it (partially at best) through really good air filtering in homes or is it just horrendous?
Check into the Cleveland Clinic, or Boston Children's
Oh that it was that easy. Children's behavioral health support relative to what we need is super bad most everywhere in the US best we can tell (less so the hospitals but it’s the pairing with out patient / wrap around programs integrated with public schools which evidently SLC has). If it was easy as a world class hospital I’d stay in the Bay Area and be down at Stanford Children’s in a heartbeat. There are maybe 2 or 3 cities in the US that have a good mix best we can tell (fairly exhaustive search by us and a paid placement consultant nationwide). Chicago was another choice - but I have strong desire not to live there for work related reasons and if I’m going to freeze in Winter I’d rather have decent skiing.
It certainly felt like one of the least welcoming places I've visited.
That sucks and it’s certainly something we are aware of - we aren’t POC but it’s a factor in our school selection - we are leaning towards a more diverse school with a “lower score” for that reason. An unfortunate element of our young child’s behavioral / autism issues is a tendency for people who don’t look the same as him making him confused and sometimes upset - long story about a well intentioned 1st grade school project and video on MLK’s life resulting in him associating POC with death :-( . It’s a goal we are working on with him and don’t want him in a mono-tonal class for that reason (amongst other reasons )
might be neat for your kids, if they are artsy types: the performing arts are actually pretty well respected here
Oh cool. That’s good to know. Both kids are very arty and we do a lot of dance and art therapy with them - so that’s a plus.
It's also very politically conservative and again, unpleasant to people who aren't.
I’ve heard - and certainly seen way more “I love the second amendment” type billboards etc which is jarring. I will say though SLC itself seems to have changed since the last time I came a decade ok - and the downtown seemed more diverse / very strongly pro LGBT etc. How much of that is marketing versus reality is hard for me to tell.
You will need a Subaru
Good thing it’s also the official car of Northern California as well, so our Outback with a skybox on the roof has us through to the semi-finals without dropping a set on that one :-)
Never go to IKEA on Saturday.
Wiser and more universally applicable words have never been said. We literally have to call it “super-secret Target” in our house - as even mentioning the name IKEA is pretty much grounds for divorce after the arguments my wife and I have had there about the most optimal way to pack flat pack boxes in the car.
We can’t drive
Funnily enough I was commentating to my wife that driving around seemed very easy compared to the Bay. But I think that may be a perception driven by lack of volume here. I imagine the significant amount of trucks on the highways may cause issues.
The crime thing is interesting and certainly something I need to read up on. As a white male I found downtown fine to amble around alone at midnight (even stopping to egg on a couple of lime scooter riders to jump a flight of stairs at the state capitol at 1am). But totally respect that my experience varies considerably from others on that.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 4:02 PM on August 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
My sister, who has an autistic son, now an adult, is thinking of leaving California and retiring to SLC for financial and family reasons. Her son is verbal, but will never be able to live without support, so this may be very different from your situation. However, you might want to know that one issue that gives her pause is the long waiting list for the services he needs if they move to SLC compared to what he has in California. I’m also aware of a tragedy caused by a wait for services there (memail me for more on that). So please make sure that what you need is truly accessible.
I’m considering retiring there for family reasons, and my joke is that the locals will cheerfully mow my lawn and help me grocery shop, then go off to the polls and vote against any financial assistance for the elderly. My daughter asked a local politician what his thoughts were on public transportation, and he said, “I don’t think we can get rid of it entirely.”
posted by FencingGal at 5:26 PM on August 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
I’m considering retiring there for family reasons, and my joke is that the locals will cheerfully mow my lawn and help me grocery shop, then go off to the polls and vote against any financial assistance for the elderly. My daughter asked a local politician what his thoughts were on public transportation, and he said, “I don’t think we can get rid of it entirely.”
posted by FencingGal at 5:26 PM on August 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
More detailed, helpful info about our air quality issues can be found here. There is a considerable intersection of privilege here, to answer your question. People who can afford to live higher up the slope can avoid the very worst of the winter inversion air, for instance, and the very young and very old are in greater danger from it. Our former governor, Olene Walker, had to leave Utah in her final years because it was no longer safe for her to live and breathe here. A friend of mine moved to the Davis County suburbs because her asthma was getting worse and worse every winter.
I will say, at least now people are actually talking about the problem. Twenty years ago, denial was dogma: even mentioning the smog would get a knee-jerk response of “IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, YOU CAN LEEEEEEAVE!”
posted by armeowda at 5:31 PM on August 25, 2019
I will say, at least now people are actually talking about the problem. Twenty years ago, denial was dogma: even mentioning the smog would get a knee-jerk response of “IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, YOU CAN LEEEEEEAVE!”
posted by armeowda at 5:31 PM on August 25, 2019
Response by poster: one issue that gives her pause is the long waiting list for the services he needs if they move to SLC compared to what he has in California
Agreed. It’s a struggle everywhere - our challenge has been there are very limited resources for adolescents - and a shit load of finger pointing as to who will fund what. We have an IEP consultant, a placement consultant, and a lawyer in a California working with us (and expect to end up in Federal court with our school district), and have engaged with educational and placement consultants and advocates here in Utah as well as educational specialists at the Hospital to help us navigate. Gigantic cluster all around but we are going in eyes open.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:52 PM on August 25, 2019
Agreed. It’s a struggle everywhere - our challenge has been there are very limited resources for adolescents - and a shit load of finger pointing as to who will fund what. We have an IEP consultant, a placement consultant, and a lawyer in a California working with us (and expect to end up in Federal court with our school district), and have engaged with educational and placement consultants and advocates here in Utah as well as educational specialists at the Hospital to help us navigate. Gigantic cluster all around but we are going in eyes open.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:52 PM on August 25, 2019
I live in SLC by the University of Utah and I have 2 kids, ages 8 and 13. We are not mormon. i like living here. I'm from the east coast originally, but, I moved here 20+ years ago for college and to ski. I never left. I still ski compulsively.
If you live in the downtown area I wouldn't worry about being ostracized by Mormons, downtown is less than 50% mormon. On a statewide basis, you will feel that though. Every time you go to the liquor store you'll be reminded of that. The state legislature is the worst and most of our elected officials are a backward embarrassment.
As has been mentioned, one of the other drawbacks is the air quality. Last winter it wasn't that bad, we had frequent storms that cleared out the air in the valley and kept the skiing top notch. But, other times it downright gross and unhealthy.
I used to say I wasn't going to live in Salt Lake forever, but, I've been everywhere else and it's either too expensive or too far from the mountains or beach, or too crowded. Salt Lake is a nice middle ground.
posted by trbrts at 7:17 AM on August 26, 2019
If you live in the downtown area I wouldn't worry about being ostracized by Mormons, downtown is less than 50% mormon. On a statewide basis, you will feel that though. Every time you go to the liquor store you'll be reminded of that. The state legislature is the worst and most of our elected officials are a backward embarrassment.
As has been mentioned, one of the other drawbacks is the air quality. Last winter it wasn't that bad, we had frequent storms that cleared out the air in the valley and kept the skiing top notch. But, other times it downright gross and unhealthy.
I used to say I wasn't going to live in Salt Lake forever, but, I've been everywhere else and it's either too expensive or too far from the mountains or beach, or too crowded. Salt Lake is a nice middle ground.
posted by trbrts at 7:17 AM on August 26, 2019
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posted by Ausamor at 10:22 AM on August 25, 2019 [4 favorites]