UK by rail for US rookies?
August 8, 2019 12:24 PM Subscribe
My parents, both 65+, are heading to the UK in October. They want to travel by rail from London to Edinburgh, Edinburgh to Glasgow, and Glasgow to London over a 7-day period. As the family member with the most international experience (though not in the UK) I'm trying to help them book tickets but it is dauntingly complicated.
The Scotland Central rail pass seems unnecessarily expensive for 3 train trips. Are there discounts available to them as seniors? Experienced UK travelers, what would you do?
The Scotland Central rail pass seems unnecessarily expensive for 3 train trips. Are there discounts available to them as seniors? Experienced UK travelers, what would you do?
I did pretty much this exact trip a few years ago and didn't buy a rail pass, I just got the three legs separately. I booked them online at the ScotRail website and seem to recall I was able to walk up to a kiosk at the station, input my reservation number and get a paper ticket.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:14 PM on August 8, 2019
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:14 PM on August 8, 2019
Yeah, start with Seat 61, but in my experience we just booked individual train tickets. We engineered ourselves a pleasant stopover on the way north in York (taking a morning train from London, then spending a couple of hours in York and taking a later train to Edinburgh). I hear York has a lovely cathedral -- it was rainy and my foot hurt too much for the short walk -- but can confirm it has a world-class railway museum practically part of the station, and the pub on the north end of the platform serves a splendid pork pie.
Also, if the flights haven't been booked yet, look into open jaw fares, such as flying into London but home from Glasgow (or Edinburgh if that's also possible). Most flights to America from London leave in the morning or early afternoon, the London airports are a long ways from the central London train stations, and the train from Scotland to London is 4-5 hours. So if you fly home at noon on Tuesday, you have to leave Scotland at supper time on Monday, then spend a night at London rates just for the privilege of waking up early, repacking your bag and schlepping out to the airport. Even if it's a few hundred more, you'll save most of that in train tickets and London hotel premiums, plus have more time to see things other than the trains.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 1:16 PM on August 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
Also, if the flights haven't been booked yet, look into open jaw fares, such as flying into London but home from Glasgow (or Edinburgh if that's also possible). Most flights to America from London leave in the morning or early afternoon, the London airports are a long ways from the central London train stations, and the train from Scotland to London is 4-5 hours. So if you fly home at noon on Tuesday, you have to leave Scotland at supper time on Monday, then spend a night at London rates just for the privilege of waking up early, repacking your bag and schlepping out to the airport. Even if it's a few hundred more, you'll save most of that in train tickets and London hotel premiums, plus have more time to see things other than the trains.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 1:16 PM on August 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
UK rail fares are generally cheaper in advance (especially Advance tickets). Return tickets are virtually always cheaper than two singles by a considerable margin. You might consider getting tickets as follows:
RTN: London-Edinburgh
RTN: Edinburgh-Glasgow
(Or possibly RTN London-Glasgow, then RTN GLA-EDI) since Lon-Gla might be quicker). Be aware that Glasgow will be out of and into London Euston and Edinburgh out of/into London King's Cross or London Euston.
You can buy tickets from a number of online places, as well as sort out options for travel there. E.g. National Rail. The specific rail companies also sell via their own sites and you can download tickets if you download their apps. Otherwise they will mail tickets to your home or you can pick up tickets at stations using a machine that prints them out when you pop in the credit card you used to pay for them.
posted by biffa at 1:22 PM on August 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
RTN: London-Edinburgh
RTN: Edinburgh-Glasgow
(Or possibly RTN London-Glasgow, then RTN GLA-EDI) since Lon-Gla might be quicker). Be aware that Glasgow will be out of and into London Euston and Edinburgh out of/into London King's Cross or London Euston.
You can buy tickets from a number of online places, as well as sort out options for travel there. E.g. National Rail. The specific rail companies also sell via their own sites and you can download tickets if you download their apps. Otherwise they will mail tickets to your home or you can pick up tickets at stations using a machine that prints them out when you pop in the credit card you used to pay for them.
posted by biffa at 1:22 PM on August 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Last time I travelled by train in the UK, I waited until I arrived and bought tickets at the station, because I bought a railcard at the same time, to get a discount.
Railcards are listed here. There's two that would apply - the "Two Together" card and the "Senior" card. You could suggest they get either. They will need to bring photos with them for the cards (like passport photos).
To book in advance (which as others have said, is cheaper), you will want to get your rail card in advance too. You can get a virtual card online, but the fee must be paid with a UK bank card. Do you have any friends or family in the UK who could buy it for them and you can pay them back directly?
posted by girlpublisher at 1:24 PM on August 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
Railcards are listed here. There's two that would apply - the "Two Together" card and the "Senior" card. You could suggest they get either. They will need to bring photos with them for the cards (like passport photos).
To book in advance (which as others have said, is cheaper), you will want to get your rail card in advance too. You can get a virtual card online, but the fee must be paid with a UK bank card. Do you have any friends or family in the UK who could buy it for them and you can pay them back directly?
posted by girlpublisher at 1:24 PM on August 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
(I should specify that I called the railcard office and asked them about buying online and they told me I'd need a bankcard linked to a UK address. I've not actually tried to buy a railcard online with my non-UK bank card - maybe it works?)
posted by girlpublisher at 1:30 PM on August 8, 2019
posted by girlpublisher at 1:30 PM on August 8, 2019
FWIW, Edinburgh to Glasgow is only about £13 for an off-peak single (and about £14 for a return, go figure...). If they get a senior railcard, they'll get a third off that. I'd be inclined to just rock up and buy that bit from the station on the day - it's cheap enough that trying to get a discount by booking in advance probably isn't worth it.
The longer legs, I'd book in advance online, as early as you can, because it can be literally hundreds of pounds cheaper to do it well in advance (the extortionate cost of long-distance rail travel in the UK as opposed to the equivalent air travel is insane but don't get me started...). BUT! IIRC, tickets go on sale 3 months before travel, so if they know their travel dates, make a note in your diary exactly 3 months before each leg, go online that day, and snap up the best prices. It's cheaper if you commit to travelling on a specific train, and you'll get a seat reservation thrown in free of charge. I can't remember if you get to choose, but on the way from London to Edinburgh, they should try and get on the right hand side of the train for the best views along the Northumberland coast.
If you're really lucky, you might find affordable first class seats instead of standard class, in which case I totally recommend taking it - so much more space and tranquility, free snacks (and meals if you're lucky but don't count on it). If you can swing it, it's really worth it. (TBH I'm not sure about this - once upon a time you could get super-affordable first class tickets if you went online early enough, when I looked more recently that didn't seem to be the case, but definitely check).
posted by penguin pie at 2:33 PM on August 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
The longer legs, I'd book in advance online, as early as you can, because it can be literally hundreds of pounds cheaper to do it well in advance (the extortionate cost of long-distance rail travel in the UK as opposed to the equivalent air travel is insane but don't get me started...). BUT! IIRC, tickets go on sale 3 months before travel, so if they know their travel dates, make a note in your diary exactly 3 months before each leg, go online that day, and snap up the best prices. It's cheaper if you commit to travelling on a specific train, and you'll get a seat reservation thrown in free of charge. I can't remember if you get to choose, but on the way from London to Edinburgh, they should try and get on the right hand side of the train for the best views along the Northumberland coast.
If you're really lucky, you might find affordable first class seats instead of standard class, in which case I totally recommend taking it - so much more space and tranquility, free snacks (and meals if you're lucky but don't count on it). If you can swing it, it's really worth it. (TBH I'm not sure about this - once upon a time you could get super-affordable first class tickets if you went online early enough, when I looked more recently that didn't seem to be the case, but definitely check).
posted by penguin pie at 2:33 PM on August 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
(Obviously I'm living in the past... I thought October was way into the future, but you're probably already over the 3 month point in fact, sorry!)
posted by penguin pie at 2:37 PM on August 8, 2019
posted by penguin pie at 2:37 PM on August 8, 2019
It may be worth knowing that many of the long distance journeys allow a weekend upgrade to first class once you are on the train. This gives you a seat in first class, plus free snacks etc usually. Can be a lifesaver if you get on and the train is rammed.
The other reason to book ahead is you can reserve seats, guaranteeing you a seat. UK trains don't require everyone has a seat and there are often more passengers than seats so its worth the reservation for the London-Scotland part of the trip. Less of an issue for Edinburgh -Glasgow.
posted by biffa at 3:13 PM on August 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
The other reason to book ahead is you can reserve seats, guaranteeing you a seat. UK trains don't require everyone has a seat and there are often more passengers than seats so its worth the reservation for the London-Scotland part of the trip. Less of an issue for Edinburgh -Glasgow.
posted by biffa at 3:13 PM on August 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
A final thought is to consider the overnight Caledonian Sleeper - - it's a beautiful old-timey train (recently refurbished) from London to Edinburgh/Glasgow or the reverse. Set off at teatime, arrive early morning. It's a longer journey but something quite special.
Nthing the advice to book as far in advance as possible!
posted by deeker at 3:33 PM on August 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
Nthing the advice to book as far in advance as possible!
posted by deeker at 3:33 PM on August 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
The Caledonian Sleeper was - and has potential to be, in the future - a wonderful thing; indeed - earlier this very year, we had a wonderful holiday in the Highlands on the old stock.
However, right now, I strongly recommend you do not use it.
Otherwise, the advice above holds true. Rail travel in the UK is very expensive and considerably more unpleasant than it ought to be. But it's still better than driving. Mostly.
posted by parm at 4:00 PM on August 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
However, right now, I strongly recommend you do not use it.
Otherwise, the advice above holds true. Rail travel in the UK is very expensive and considerably more unpleasant than it ought to be. But it's still better than driving. Mostly.
posted by parm at 4:00 PM on August 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah, don't both with a rail pass. Just buy the tickets separately. As other's have recommended, try adding a few different rail cards to see if they come out cheaper that way. The 'Two Together' is usually good value if you are taking more than 3-ish trips.
Use The Trainline website to buy tickets. That's what my British relatives recommend. I'm pretty sure I've brought tickets on that site using my US credit.
As long as you purchase the rail card before you get on the first train, you can go ahead and buy tickets with the reduced price. In other words, you can buy the tickets now via the website with the discount, but get the railcard itself once you arrive in person in the UK.
Warning! You will need photo ID cards for the rail cards, and it's hard to find photobooths these days! They will get a photo ID card at the same time as the rail card. So if you plan on getting a railcard, make sure your parents have ID-sized photos before they head to the station.
posted by EllaEm at 5:39 PM on August 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Use The Trainline website to buy tickets. That's what my British relatives recommend. I'm pretty sure I've brought tickets on that site using my US credit.
As long as you purchase the rail card before you get on the first train, you can go ahead and buy tickets with the reduced price. In other words, you can buy the tickets now via the website with the discount, but get the railcard itself once you arrive in person in the UK.
Warning! You will need photo ID cards for the rail cards, and it's hard to find photobooths these days! They will get a photo ID card at the same time as the rail card. So if you plan on getting a railcard, make sure your parents have ID-sized photos before they head to the station.
posted by EllaEm at 5:39 PM on August 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Forgot to add: the 'Two Together' card will be the best value for your parents because it is £30 for two people, whereas the 'Senior Card' is £30 per person. Each give you a third off the price of all tickets you then purchase. Here's the info.
posted by EllaEm at 5:44 PM on August 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by EllaEm at 5:44 PM on August 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
It might be worth giving a station booking office a ring at a quiet time of day to see if they've got any suggestions. My local booking office (Dundee) have managed to find cheaper/upgraded tickets for me several times, and they'll know about special offers you can use.
Also, remember Delay Repay. On both East Coast and ScotRail, if you're delayed 30 minutes you get half the single ticket price back; if you're delayed an hour you get the full price back. So if you're delayed on any of the legs, note down the time you actually arrived, and remember to fill in the online claim form when you get home.
posted by offog at 6:34 PM on August 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Also, remember Delay Repay. On both East Coast and ScotRail, if you're delayed 30 minutes you get half the single ticket price back; if you're delayed an hour you get the full price back. So if you're delayed on any of the legs, note down the time you actually arrived, and remember to fill in the online claim form when you get home.
posted by offog at 6:34 PM on August 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
If you really want a deal, try trainsplit.com
For reasons too tedious to explain, many different / competing train companies in the UK often run services over the same lines, and they don't always price those services accurately. When travelling from A to B via C, it's sometimes way cheaper (like: unbelievably much cheaper) to buy two tickets, a.k.a. a split ticket - from A to C, and from C to B. You don't need to get off at C, just travel on a train that stops there on the way to B. It's well within the rules, but it's not a choice you're offered at the ticket desk. You have to know what to ask for. The trainsplit site works all that out & explains it clearly, with a printable itinerary.
I use it a lot for advance tickets - means it's often possible to travel first class for considerably less than the price of a standard-class walk-up fare. Only real downside is that sometimes you end up with a whole pocketful of tickets when you collect them from the machine, and it can be a little bit harder to keep track of them all. It would probably give you the best price, though.
posted by rd45 at 1:28 AM on August 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
For reasons too tedious to explain, many different / competing train companies in the UK often run services over the same lines, and they don't always price those services accurately. When travelling from A to B via C, it's sometimes way cheaper (like: unbelievably much cheaper) to buy two tickets, a.k.a. a split ticket - from A to C, and from C to B. You don't need to get off at C, just travel on a train that stops there on the way to B. It's well within the rules, but it's not a choice you're offered at the ticket desk. You have to know what to ask for. The trainsplit site works all that out & explains it clearly, with a printable itinerary.
I use it a lot for advance tickets - means it's often possible to travel first class for considerably less than the price of a standard-class walk-up fare. Only real downside is that sometimes you end up with a whole pocketful of tickets when you collect them from the machine, and it can be a little bit harder to keep track of them all. It would probably give you the best price, though.
posted by rd45 at 1:28 AM on August 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
We haven't really discussed peak fares. In and out of London can be pretty steep at the best of times but peak prices (typically Mon-Fri, before 9.30 and after 5 can be prohibitive. Weekends are generally cheaper. Don't get up early to beat the rush!
posted by biffa at 3:04 AM on August 9, 2019
posted by biffa at 3:04 AM on August 9, 2019
For your specific journey: I believe an open return from London to Edinburgh is valid via Glasgow. You have to do the outward part on the one day but you have a month to return, and you can break your journey.
So you use the outward part to go to Edinburgh (not via Glasgow)
Then some days later you use the return part to go to Glasgow
Then some days later still you use the return again to go back to London.
This is a walk up ticket so not cheap (147 off peak) but you can get on any train you like and it's often competitive with 2 advance tickets.
A 2 together railcard would bring that under 100 so would pay for itself 3 times over.
posted by doiheartwentyone at 2:00 PM on August 9, 2019
So you use the outward part to go to Edinburgh (not via Glasgow)
Then some days later you use the return part to go to Glasgow
Then some days later still you use the return again to go back to London.
This is a walk up ticket so not cheap (147 off peak) but you can get on any train you like and it's often competitive with 2 advance tickets.
A 2 together railcard would bring that under 100 so would pay for itself 3 times over.
posted by doiheartwentyone at 2:00 PM on August 9, 2019
UPDATE: I was able to get a digital railcard using my Canadian Visa card and a UK billing address, borrowed from my obliging cousin. If you also have an obliging cousin, you can get one before arriving in the UK too!
posted by girlpublisher at 12:33 PM on August 10, 2019
posted by girlpublisher at 12:33 PM on August 10, 2019
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