Stun-gun Suggestions?
July 25, 2019 12:47 PM Subscribe
Recent early evening rape in a nearby campus building has crystallized a decision to acquire some personal defence devices. While a Katana was considered, carrying a stun-gun may be less awkward during the workday. Amazon lists so many, we are looking for recommendations based on personal experience.
You appear to be in NY; if you go down this road, I would urge you to keep a careful eye out for new legislation re-regulating the possession of stun guns in the state, as the court that struck down the law recently made it clear that not all regulation would be unconstitutional. You don't want the law to change on you without realizing it. There have already been bills introduced to re-introduce regulation.
posted by praemunire at 1:08 PM on July 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 1:08 PM on July 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Seconding the training over/before actually buying anything. Any weapon, even one intended for self defence, is still a weapon, and it's irresponsible both to you and others to carry it without training and ongoing practice. If you are concerned about being attacked in public by a stranger, probably the most important thing to do increase your awareness of your situation, because a stun gun is worthless against someone who gets the jump on you before you can get it out, and having it and not the training will probably just make you overly-confident. Basically, all the same rules that apply and make 95% of concealed carry firearm people negligent gun owners.
If you actually go that route, and I'd urge you not to, be wary of lower-powered civilian ones, as lots of them won't actually incapacitate a person. I've had a friend hit me with a cheap handheld one that just kinda hurt, and I'm not a big guy. On the flip side, a powerful stun gun is a less-than lethal weapon, not a non-lethal weapon. You will want to familiarize yourself in the use of deadly force laws in your state, and the conditions necessary for it to even come into play. Stun guns can kill, so you'd also want to make sure you're 100% okay with the chance that you kill a possible attacker.
It's a big choice you'd want to take more seriously than product reviews and recs. Classes are cheap-ish and taught by experts, so take one first.
posted by neonrev at 1:26 PM on July 25, 2019 [8 favorites]
If you actually go that route, and I'd urge you not to, be wary of lower-powered civilian ones, as lots of them won't actually incapacitate a person. I've had a friend hit me with a cheap handheld one that just kinda hurt, and I'm not a big guy. On the flip side, a powerful stun gun is a less-than lethal weapon, not a non-lethal weapon. You will want to familiarize yourself in the use of deadly force laws in your state, and the conditions necessary for it to even come into play. Stun guns can kill, so you'd also want to make sure you're 100% okay with the chance that you kill a possible attacker.
It's a big choice you'd want to take more seriously than product reviews and recs. Classes are cheap-ish and taught by experts, so take one first.
posted by neonrev at 1:26 PM on July 25, 2019 [8 favorites]
Defensive devices -- any of them, from pepper sprays to stun guns/tasers to firearms -- are really only as good as the training the person receives in their use. They are not magic. There are people who insist that having such a thing without any training creates a net loss of personal security, because the untrained owner might be less vigilant than they'd be without their magic talisman.
If you are concerned about your personal safety, one place to start might be with some level of personal self defense training, not a gadget. There are classes that focus on women, and the techniques that allow a smaller, less strong person to defend against a larger, more powerful attacker.
posted by uberchet at 1:44 PM on July 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
If you are concerned about your personal safety, one place to start might be with some level of personal self defense training, not a gadget. There are classes that focus on women, and the techniques that allow a smaller, less strong person to defend against a larger, more powerful attacker.
posted by uberchet at 1:44 PM on July 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I'm the gf in question here. I live in a state where stun guns are legal (not NY). I have had training in personal self-defense and take this very seriously. I work in an extremely high-crime environment where mugging and sexual assault is very common. I would like to assure everyone that I'm a responsible, extremely careful person who would only use physical force as a last resort. We are looking for recommendations, not lectures on the morality of defending oneself from violent attacks. If you do not have specific recommendations, please skip this thread. Thanks.
posted by phoenix_rising at 2:43 PM on July 25, 2019 [28 favorites]
posted by phoenix_rising at 2:43 PM on July 25, 2019 [28 favorites]
Best answer: A friend of mine sells Damsel In Defense products and swears by them.
posted by tacodave at 3:15 PM on July 25, 2019
posted by tacodave at 3:15 PM on July 25, 2019
My biggest question is if you want something like a Taser Pulse, which you carry and use like a pistol (useful only for firing at people; but quite good at that) or if you'd prefer something like this Vipertek flashlight which can only stun when in contact with a target, but has the option to make loud scary noises as a deterrent.
It's not a stun gun, but some of the women in my office recommended a stabby stick to have something ready that doesn't need batteries at all.
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 3:25 PM on July 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
It's not a stun gun, but some of the women in my office recommended a stabby stick to have something ready that doesn't need batteries at all.
posted by whisk(e)y neat at 3:25 PM on July 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Looking for a flashlight like unit, not a distance weapon. The Taser Strikelight looked good but is pricey. Am fearful that something an order of magnitude cheaper, like the Vipertek, would fail or worse if needed.
posted by Sophont at 3:46 PM on July 25, 2019
posted by Sophont at 3:46 PM on July 25, 2019
I think you are on the right track.
Somewhat out of date hearsay with a large dose of testosterone and a side of salt: the local integrated combatives school instructors ( special forces &/or or ninja badasses), think that the pulsing of the taser products works great, and anything else can be soldiered through with sufficient motivation. They had opinions about the ability to disarm someone with the old taser with prongs on the front, but I believe those are no longer made .
posted by unknown knowns at 6:17 PM on July 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Somewhat out of date hearsay with a large dose of testosterone and a side of salt: the local integrated combatives school instructors ( special forces &/or or ninja badasses), think that the pulsing of the taser products works great, and anything else can be soldiered through with sufficient motivation. They had opinions about the ability to disarm someone with the old taser with prongs on the front, but I believe those are no longer made .
posted by unknown knowns at 6:17 PM on July 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Alright, if you honestly feel comfortable carrying a stun gun, and know how to use it, then I'm sorry, I don't have any recommendations as a personal user. The joke about carrying a Katana instead really, really screams 'dangerously unserious', and that's what that response was based on. I can't apologize for the utter lack of context in the actual question, and I'm very used to giving the same lecture to people who ask which handgun to buy given that same context. My bad.
posted by neonrev at 8:55 PM on July 25, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by neonrev at 8:55 PM on July 25, 2019 [13 favorites]
Best answer: Neonrev -- my partner has a quirky sense of humor; don't read too much into it. The context he provided was that a rape recently occurred in a building near me.
This was the tipping point, after many incidences of sexual assault and strong-arm robbery that have been reported on the university campus where I work, which has me thinking to supplement my self-defense training. I often work late by necessity, and have a short but scary walk from my building to a parking garage. I would have the device in my hand, and hopefully the spark/noise would be a sufficient deterrent. Causing physical pain would be an absolute last resort.
As much as I dislike the thought of hurting someone, I have to live in this reality as a petite, vulnerable woman in a world where some people will take advantage of my (perceived) lack of power. I would appreciate if people did not make assumptions/judgements about my seriousness, responsibility, or knowledge about these matters.
posted by phoenix_rising at 9:23 PM on July 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
This was the tipping point, after many incidences of sexual assault and strong-arm robbery that have been reported on the university campus where I work, which has me thinking to supplement my self-defense training. I often work late by necessity, and have a short but scary walk from my building to a parking garage. I would have the device in my hand, and hopefully the spark/noise would be a sufficient deterrent. Causing physical pain would be an absolute last resort.
As much as I dislike the thought of hurting someone, I have to live in this reality as a petite, vulnerable woman in a world where some people will take advantage of my (perceived) lack of power. I would appreciate if people did not make assumptions/judgements about my seriousness, responsibility, or knowledge about these matters.
posted by phoenix_rising at 9:23 PM on July 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
the women here who track grizzlies use bear spray
posted by cda at 10:21 PM on July 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by cda at 10:21 PM on July 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
There are videos on you tube of people shocking themselves or their friends with all of these models and many others. I recommend watching them for reference, fairly interesting. Some of those weirdos have tested more than one model.
I have a medium priced flashlight model, bought to use against specific aggressive dogs we had a problem with, and while I've never had to use it the noise is fairly impressive and has worked to scare a large dog off twice now. Also a particularly dick-ish Canada Goose.
You do need to keep it charged, that's the failure point for me anyway.
posted by fshgrl at 11:50 PM on July 25, 2019
I have a medium priced flashlight model, bought to use against specific aggressive dogs we had a problem with, and while I've never had to use it the noise is fairly impressive and has worked to scare a large dog off twice now. Also a particularly dick-ish Canada Goose.
You do need to keep it charged, that's the failure point for me anyway.
posted by fshgrl at 11:50 PM on July 25, 2019
Alternatively, does your university have a "Safe Ride" program or have a security force that could escort you to your car?
posted by kuanes at 4:09 AM on July 26, 2019
posted by kuanes at 4:09 AM on July 26, 2019
I was going to suggest bear spray, basically pepper spray in a bigger bottle. Stops bears. Will stop humans.
I think the cheap tasers like Vipertek work fine. It’s a simple-assed technology, easily knocked off in Shenzhen for pennies on the dollar. They have sold so many and generally get strong reviews. Of course most never use these things in any actual combat situation, so reviews tend to be meaningless. But they definitely do deliver the voltage and there are plenty of videos showing them in use for tests and it looks like it hurts.
I keep a Vipertek in my (NYC) car. It seems solidly made.
I’d look for models that have serious weight to them so they’re useful as a club, and designs that have electrodes that wrap around the business end so that someone trying to grab it from you gets shocked.
But I’d also recommend self-defense training. No device will replace situational awareness and hand to hand combat tactics. And if it’s legal where you live (still isn’t in NYC) I would go with pepper spray as the first line of defense because it can be deployed at a distance. Bear spray is awesome because it goes a long way and comes in a powerful dispenser.
As for training and expert opinions ....Anyone who *tells* you they’re an “ex-special forces badas ninja” as marketing for their self-defense business is likely to be lying. The first rule of special forces is you don’t talk about it. I wish I had a dollar for every “former Navy Seal” I’ve met in a bar. My sense is that you probably want an ex-cop for this stuff.
posted by spitbull at 7:01 AM on July 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think the cheap tasers like Vipertek work fine. It’s a simple-assed technology, easily knocked off in Shenzhen for pennies on the dollar. They have sold so many and generally get strong reviews. Of course most never use these things in any actual combat situation, so reviews tend to be meaningless. But they definitely do deliver the voltage and there are plenty of videos showing them in use for tests and it looks like it hurts.
I keep a Vipertek in my (NYC) car. It seems solidly made.
I’d look for models that have serious weight to them so they’re useful as a club, and designs that have electrodes that wrap around the business end so that someone trying to grab it from you gets shocked.
But I’d also recommend self-defense training. No device will replace situational awareness and hand to hand combat tactics. And if it’s legal where you live (still isn’t in NYC) I would go with pepper spray as the first line of defense because it can be deployed at a distance. Bear spray is awesome because it goes a long way and comes in a powerful dispenser.
As for training and expert opinions ....Anyone who *tells* you they’re an “ex-special forces badas ninja” as marketing for their self-defense business is likely to be lying. The first rule of special forces is you don’t talk about it. I wish I had a dollar for every “former Navy Seal” I’ve met in a bar. My sense is that you probably want an ex-cop for this stuff.
posted by spitbull at 7:01 AM on July 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Mod note: A couple deleted. Sorry, but continuing discussion of bear spray is off topic for this question. It's been suggested as an option, and if OP wants to pursue the idea further, they can ask about details in a separate post.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:30 AM on July 27, 2019
posted by taz (staff) at 6:30 AM on July 27, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
Perhaps other people will have more constructive comments re: stun guns specifically, but I would strongly suggest reconsidering.
posted by Paper rabies at 1:07 PM on July 25, 2019 [9 favorites]