Everyone says 'trust your gut' - but I think my gut lies!
July 9, 2019 7:10 AM Subscribe
I fit all the criteria for Relationship OCD - something I'm currently looking for help for - which means I overanalyse whilst at the same time overlooking unacceptable behaviours because I've gotten myself into such a tizzy trying work out what is actually reasonable and rational.
This means my gut is anxious a lot of the time and I don't think it's accurate. I'd appreciate your view on whether these behaviours seem like deal breakers to you. I am currently a little depressed which I know skews my perception of things.
My boyfriend (31) and I (34) have been seeing eachother for 8 months and have lots going for us. We laugh a lot together, I fancy him loads, we have good conversation, he has similar values to me and he makes me feel largely supported. I quite often feel 'in love' and am generally happy most of the time when we're together.
He is a good person, but he is also an awkward one with a cynical and sometimes quite distant exterior, which I think hides a fair amount of insecurity, and he can unwittingly trigger my insecurities and upset me with some of the things he says.
I've been going through some difficult things since we've been together, and recovering from several years of traumatic life events. I've done my best to keep them out of the relationship but where I've needed support he has indicated he is happy to be there for me if I tell him what I need (I have largely not leaned on him massively as didn't want to create that dynamic very early on - it got in the way in my last relationship and the guy essentially dumped me a month after my dad had died and when I needed him the most - leaving me feeling very hurt and abandoned - so I am wary of showing too much vulnerability at this stage).
I'm definitely looking for the one that I settle down with, as is he, and we've spoken quite openly about kids and the future. He has said he doesn't take relationships lightly, and this is his first serious one. From the milestones we're starting to rack up (meeting family etc), and the way he looks at me, I think he may think I'm this person.
On the other hand, I think I have relationship OCD (yes it's a real thing) - I obsess over relationships being wrong in some way, usually by over analysing the other person's behaviour and words and worrying about things all the time. I've let a couple of great people go because of this. I know I have a tendency to throw away relationships quite quickly, leaving the other person feeling blindsided and like they haven't been given the chance to work on stuff. At the moment there is a higher risk of this because I feel the pressure of having to find 'the one'.
I've also been really burnt a few times and am probably not great at talking about my needs or knowing what the difference is between my gut and what is just worry and insecurity (the latter is there pretty much all the time). No one really feels safe.
Hence coming here to ask if you think these behaviours are ok, and whether you think I should try and work with them on him or whether it sounds like we are too incompatible. The things that bother me are:
- He can be a little snappy and behave slightly oddly. For instance, the other day I accidentally spilled chocolate sauce on his trousers and his first reaction was to be ultra annoyed and he snapped 'it was almost like you did that on purpose'. He made me feel like an idiot even though I was obviously sorry. He then tried to pretend it never happened and went to kiss me without actually saying sorry. He did say that he didn't mean it after he realised I was upset. I find it hard to ascertain whether this is just normal humans being humans and then being a bit defensive about saying sorry or the sign of an arsehole. The previous night he'd set one of my pans on fire and burnt the one thing he was helping me cook and I didn't say a word!
On the same day he came back with me to my flat, put a record on and just lay there listening quietly. I went to talk and he basically indicated I should be quiet as he was having quiet time. I found this rude and a little odd. In general he probably thinks I talk too much, and he is naturally quite introverted, although he is generally a good listener.
- He's not very affectionate, and I need a little more physical touch. For instance, he hardly ever uses his tongue while kissing. The other night he jokingly referred to me as 'like a mosquito' because I gave him a few pecks before sleep. I found this quite offensive and sad-making as I don't like being framed as a nuisance.
- Related to this, I've always really enjoyed our sex - he's very generous in bed, although he doesn't get as much out of penetrative sex as your average man does - his body works a little differently. The past three times in a row we've had sex he's not been able to climax, and hasn't seemed into it. I suspect he may have started antidepressants as this is a very common side effect, and he's been quite depressed from a lack of work and said he was going to go to the doctor's about it - but he's not told me. Either way, not great that I feel like sex is a chore now and like he doesn't trust me enough to tell me if he has started medication.
- He's not great at verbal affection. He'll compliment me quite a lot, but has never really said anything substantial about the way he feels about me. He once said that 'of course' he thinks I'm amazing and 'I should just know'. I don't just know.
- It feels more like we're 'dating' still, as only see eachother once or twice a week (always overnight stays). That is also probably of my own making as I have a busy schedule and he's away with work sometimes, but I often feel like we should be a lot further along in terms of intimacy now. We've only spoken a handful of times on the actual phone between dates, for instance, and is seems to be a big deal for him to pick up the phone. In general, I have to indicate that I want us to move forward in some way before he will generally respond and do it.
- The other night he sat there on his phone for half an hour while I did all the washing up and kitchen cleaning after I'd cooked him a three course meal. This was after I'd spent the day travelling to and from another city to visit my dying uncle. It felt selfish and rude. I worry this is part of a wider pattern of being waited on a bit by his Italian mother. He talks of cooking for me but has only done it twice.
- He's a cameraman, and his industry has been very quiet this year. This is making him depressed. However, instead of hustling and getting a side job, doing jobs for cheaper rates, or growing his skills so he can do other kinds of film work, he mostly sits in a cafe writing scripts for a short film he would like to make (at his own expense ). He says he doesn't need money (he has savings, and seems to have no issue paying his rent - I think the work he does get covers this) - and that it would be different with mouths to feed.
In contrast, I've been working my arse off for the past three years to save money for a metaphorical baby and house deposit, going freelance and working night and day. I've also massively increased what I bring in money-wise and would in theory be able to support him if he was a stay at home dad, which he has said he would love to be. But I kind of want someone who's just as focused on being financially solvent as me, and it worries me he's not. I don't have lots saved up and certainly not enough for a London house deposit, which is where I live. I guess it's too early in the relationship for this to be an issue now, but I worry it will be in the future.
On the other hand I know that many women now earn more than their husbands, and being mostly quite feminist myself I'm in principle okay with that. I just don't like the idea of him being lazy. Am I overly worrying about this?
Sorry, realise this is a splurge. I guess I just feel generally like I'm not sure where this is going and whether my worries are justified. I'd really value your thoughts - are any of these deal breakers for you, or do you think my worries are just going into overdrive? Can you relate to any of these?
My boyfriend (31) and I (34) have been seeing eachother for 8 months and have lots going for us. We laugh a lot together, I fancy him loads, we have good conversation, he has similar values to me and he makes me feel largely supported. I quite often feel 'in love' and am generally happy most of the time when we're together.
He is a good person, but he is also an awkward one with a cynical and sometimes quite distant exterior, which I think hides a fair amount of insecurity, and he can unwittingly trigger my insecurities and upset me with some of the things he says.
I've been going through some difficult things since we've been together, and recovering from several years of traumatic life events. I've done my best to keep them out of the relationship but where I've needed support he has indicated he is happy to be there for me if I tell him what I need (I have largely not leaned on him massively as didn't want to create that dynamic very early on - it got in the way in my last relationship and the guy essentially dumped me a month after my dad had died and when I needed him the most - leaving me feeling very hurt and abandoned - so I am wary of showing too much vulnerability at this stage).
I'm definitely looking for the one that I settle down with, as is he, and we've spoken quite openly about kids and the future. He has said he doesn't take relationships lightly, and this is his first serious one. From the milestones we're starting to rack up (meeting family etc), and the way he looks at me, I think he may think I'm this person.
On the other hand, I think I have relationship OCD (yes it's a real thing) - I obsess over relationships being wrong in some way, usually by over analysing the other person's behaviour and words and worrying about things all the time. I've let a couple of great people go because of this. I know I have a tendency to throw away relationships quite quickly, leaving the other person feeling blindsided and like they haven't been given the chance to work on stuff. At the moment there is a higher risk of this because I feel the pressure of having to find 'the one'.
I've also been really burnt a few times and am probably not great at talking about my needs or knowing what the difference is between my gut and what is just worry and insecurity (the latter is there pretty much all the time). No one really feels safe.
Hence coming here to ask if you think these behaviours are ok, and whether you think I should try and work with them on him or whether it sounds like we are too incompatible. The things that bother me are:
- He can be a little snappy and behave slightly oddly. For instance, the other day I accidentally spilled chocolate sauce on his trousers and his first reaction was to be ultra annoyed and he snapped 'it was almost like you did that on purpose'. He made me feel like an idiot even though I was obviously sorry. He then tried to pretend it never happened and went to kiss me without actually saying sorry. He did say that he didn't mean it after he realised I was upset. I find it hard to ascertain whether this is just normal humans being humans and then being a bit defensive about saying sorry or the sign of an arsehole. The previous night he'd set one of my pans on fire and burnt the one thing he was helping me cook and I didn't say a word!
On the same day he came back with me to my flat, put a record on and just lay there listening quietly. I went to talk and he basically indicated I should be quiet as he was having quiet time. I found this rude and a little odd. In general he probably thinks I talk too much, and he is naturally quite introverted, although he is generally a good listener.
- He's not very affectionate, and I need a little more physical touch. For instance, he hardly ever uses his tongue while kissing. The other night he jokingly referred to me as 'like a mosquito' because I gave him a few pecks before sleep. I found this quite offensive and sad-making as I don't like being framed as a nuisance.
- Related to this, I've always really enjoyed our sex - he's very generous in bed, although he doesn't get as much out of penetrative sex as your average man does - his body works a little differently. The past three times in a row we've had sex he's not been able to climax, and hasn't seemed into it. I suspect he may have started antidepressants as this is a very common side effect, and he's been quite depressed from a lack of work and said he was going to go to the doctor's about it - but he's not told me. Either way, not great that I feel like sex is a chore now and like he doesn't trust me enough to tell me if he has started medication.
- He's not great at verbal affection. He'll compliment me quite a lot, but has never really said anything substantial about the way he feels about me. He once said that 'of course' he thinks I'm amazing and 'I should just know'. I don't just know.
- It feels more like we're 'dating' still, as only see eachother once or twice a week (always overnight stays). That is also probably of my own making as I have a busy schedule and he's away with work sometimes, but I often feel like we should be a lot further along in terms of intimacy now. We've only spoken a handful of times on the actual phone between dates, for instance, and is seems to be a big deal for him to pick up the phone. In general, I have to indicate that I want us to move forward in some way before he will generally respond and do it.
- The other night he sat there on his phone for half an hour while I did all the washing up and kitchen cleaning after I'd cooked him a three course meal. This was after I'd spent the day travelling to and from another city to visit my dying uncle. It felt selfish and rude. I worry this is part of a wider pattern of being waited on a bit by his Italian mother. He talks of cooking for me but has only done it twice.
- He's a cameraman, and his industry has been very quiet this year. This is making him depressed. However, instead of hustling and getting a side job, doing jobs for cheaper rates, or growing his skills so he can do other kinds of film work, he mostly sits in a cafe writing scripts for a short film he would like to make (at his own expense ). He says he doesn't need money (he has savings, and seems to have no issue paying his rent - I think the work he does get covers this) - and that it would be different with mouths to feed.
In contrast, I've been working my arse off for the past three years to save money for a metaphorical baby and house deposit, going freelance and working night and day. I've also massively increased what I bring in money-wise and would in theory be able to support him if he was a stay at home dad, which he has said he would love to be. But I kind of want someone who's just as focused on being financially solvent as me, and it worries me he's not. I don't have lots saved up and certainly not enough for a London house deposit, which is where I live. I guess it's too early in the relationship for this to be an issue now, but I worry it will be in the future.
On the other hand I know that many women now earn more than their husbands, and being mostly quite feminist myself I'm in principle okay with that. I just don't like the idea of him being lazy. Am I overly worrying about this?
Sorry, realise this is a splurge. I guess I just feel generally like I'm not sure where this is going and whether my worries are justified. I'd really value your thoughts - are any of these deal breakers for you, or do you think my worries are just going into overdrive? Can you relate to any of these?
Reading this question in combination with your previous question about this relationship makes me think it’s time to let him go. I know it’s challenging to go through with a big change like this (I’m your age so I understand if you have anxiety about feeling old... but we’re not, right?!)
Sending you support as you decide what’s best for you. And please try to trust that gut!
posted by sucre at 7:45 AM on July 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
Sending you support as you decide what’s best for you. And please try to trust that gut!
posted by sucre at 7:45 AM on July 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
It seems you've set the lowest bar for this fellow and he still has trouble clearing it. You don't lean on him for major emotional support, and it sounds like you haven't even told him about your recent traumatic life events so that he can support you. You've framed it as not wanting to set up a dependent dynamic and complicate the relationship with your needs, but are you sure it isn't because you know that he doesn't have the capacity or interest in really being there for you in a loving and emotionally mature way?
Your last question about him revealed some very troubling aspects of his personality and it doesn't sound like he's improved in those areas at all. He's got a cruel streak. The kindest assessment would be that he needs a lot of home training and therapy to become emotionally grown up. He seems uninterested in pursuing it and your response had been to stay mostly quiet about his deficits and instead concentrate on not taxing him at all with your needs. You fix him a fancy dinner and he leaves you to do all the clean up while he plays on his phone? He equates your kisses with insect bites? He snaps at you and then can't even say he's sorry?
You're making yourself small to minimize what's asked of him and he still can't meet the very minimum required. He's a poor communicator and can't even tell you how he feels about you. You also don't seem to share common values around basic financial practices and life plans. The only thing that stands out in the two questions is that he's been generous in bed? That's not enough.
Please don't have children with a man who is emotionally underdeveloped, cruel, selfish, and oblivious to the needs of others. Go reread the answers to your last question and ask yourself why you ask so little and he still can't manage to meet your minimal needs. Go find someone who is emotionally mature and who truly wants and is ready to build a life with a partner. You'll find that your relationship OCD disappears when you're with a man who can exceed your expectations and who makes you feel truly loved and cared for. Your current boyfriend doesn't have the capacity or interest in being that person. If you want children, don't waste your fertile years trying to raise a manbaby.
posted by quince at 9:08 AM on July 9, 2019 [16 favorites]
Your last question about him revealed some very troubling aspects of his personality and it doesn't sound like he's improved in those areas at all. He's got a cruel streak. The kindest assessment would be that he needs a lot of home training and therapy to become emotionally grown up. He seems uninterested in pursuing it and your response had been to stay mostly quiet about his deficits and instead concentrate on not taxing him at all with your needs. You fix him a fancy dinner and he leaves you to do all the clean up while he plays on his phone? He equates your kisses with insect bites? He snaps at you and then can't even say he's sorry?
You're making yourself small to minimize what's asked of him and he still can't meet the very minimum required. He's a poor communicator and can't even tell you how he feels about you. You also don't seem to share common values around basic financial practices and life plans. The only thing that stands out in the two questions is that he's been generous in bed? That's not enough.
Please don't have children with a man who is emotionally underdeveloped, cruel, selfish, and oblivious to the needs of others. Go reread the answers to your last question and ask yourself why you ask so little and he still can't manage to meet your minimal needs. Go find someone who is emotionally mature and who truly wants and is ready to build a life with a partner. You'll find that your relationship OCD disappears when you're with a man who can exceed your expectations and who makes you feel truly loved and cared for. Your current boyfriend doesn't have the capacity or interest in being that person. If you want children, don't waste your fertile years trying to raise a manbaby.
posted by quince at 9:08 AM on July 9, 2019 [16 favorites]
You seem very sensitive but also like you're scared to confront things head on. Don't sit around wondering if he has started taking antidepressants because you read about some of the side effects online, ask him! If you want to make someone a nice dinner but think they should be the ones to clean, tell them! Stewing in these kinds of resentments and suspicions is poisonous to relationships. You're hurt that he's taking medication without telling you, but you don't even know for sure that he is! See how self-defeating that is?
posted by cakelite at 9:11 AM on July 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by cakelite at 9:11 AM on July 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks, guys, for your brilliant responses so far. Just in response to what @quince said, I did talk to him after my last question and laid it on the line re his behaviour. He totally admitted he was out of line, said I had every right to be upset and that he didn't know why he did these things and got quite upset about it. He admitted he had offended others in the past including friends and family and that he doesn't know why he pushes people away like this. He asked that I tell him straightaway if he did it again, which I have once, but in general there really hasn't been anything to complain about. I felt listened to and he has responded by not saying anything offensive again (apart from that mosquito comment). So that turned out to be quite positive.
posted by starstarstar at 9:26 AM on July 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by starstarstar at 9:26 AM on July 9, 2019 [1 favorite]
On the same day he came back with me to my flat, put a record on and just lay there listening quietly. I went to talk and he basically indicated I should be quiet as he was having quiet time.
normal if you've lived together for a little while, acceptable if you're at his place. hilariously, obliviously rude as a guest in your home. and this is your record, too, even. or at least your record player, right
it is in no way your fault he's like this, but it taught him something about you when you didn't react in the moment by laughing at him. affectionately, maybe. mainly that he can indulge all his self-centered impulses as he would when alone, because you don't, so there's space.
like he doesn't trust me enough to tell me if he has started medication.
wanting him to keep his private medical information on file with you is not an intuitive relationship expectation. if you want to know his prescription status & details, ask. if you haven't, I think it is you who don't trust him enough, because you think you will get an angry answer, and that is a problem all in itself, and a valid one.
It felt selfish and rude.
it was.
you should be able to ask once ("I like to have an understanding that when one of us cooks, the other cleans or helps to clean. If you'd rather alternate and each do the whole job of cooking-and-cleaning half the time, that could work too. Which way sounds better to you?" -- forced choice, toddler-training style) and get a good answer, and not ask again. if he just doesn't know what's polite, and is not actively exploitative/sexist/lazy, he will only have to hear this once.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:37 AM on July 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
normal if you've lived together for a little while, acceptable if you're at his place. hilariously, obliviously rude as a guest in your home. and this is your record, too, even. or at least your record player, right
it is in no way your fault he's like this, but it taught him something about you when you didn't react in the moment by laughing at him. affectionately, maybe. mainly that he can indulge all his self-centered impulses as he would when alone, because you don't, so there's space.
like he doesn't trust me enough to tell me if he has started medication.
wanting him to keep his private medical information on file with you is not an intuitive relationship expectation. if you want to know his prescription status & details, ask. if you haven't, I think it is you who don't trust him enough, because you think you will get an angry answer, and that is a problem all in itself, and a valid one.
It felt selfish and rude.
it was.
you should be able to ask once ("I like to have an understanding that when one of us cooks, the other cleans or helps to clean. If you'd rather alternate and each do the whole job of cooking-and-cleaning half the time, that could work too. Which way sounds better to you?" -- forced choice, toddler-training style) and get a good answer, and not ask again. if he just doesn't know what's polite, and is not actively exploitative/sexist/lazy, he will only have to hear this once.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:37 AM on July 9, 2019 [5 favorites]
I'm taking you at your word about OCD, and IMO the last thing you should do is seek out the opinion of others about the topic you're obsessing over. It's tricky, because your question is about a relationship, instead of like a repetitive physical behavior, because aaking questions can seem super reasonable, but probably won't help you resolve the situation you're concerned about.
I have OCD, and could have written this ask a thousand times over. For me it's part of a "checking behavior" - which I describe as the compulsive part. If it's OCD, you're basically taking slices of your life and asking "is this ok?" over and over. Like trying to find "proof" about your relationship. Asking others, reviewing incidents, cataloging behaviors, goals, and trying to find The Meaning (to answer the fear behind this) based on moments your brain has flag and interpreted as relevant to your fear, are all part of OCD behaviors. So how can you know?
I'd suggest you start by admitting that you have ambivalence about the relationship and acknowledging that you can't have a clear answer right now. Like "I'm not sure this is the right relationship for me, but I need to get a handle on my OCD symptoms before figuring it out" and then seeking treatment/ taking steps to not engage in the OCD behaviors. The rest will eventually work itself out.
posted by bindr at 9:59 AM on July 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
I have OCD, and could have written this ask a thousand times over. For me it's part of a "checking behavior" - which I describe as the compulsive part. If it's OCD, you're basically taking slices of your life and asking "is this ok?" over and over. Like trying to find "proof" about your relationship. Asking others, reviewing incidents, cataloging behaviors, goals, and trying to find The Meaning (to answer the fear behind this) based on moments your brain has flag and interpreted as relevant to your fear, are all part of OCD behaviors. So how can you know?
I'd suggest you start by admitting that you have ambivalence about the relationship and acknowledging that you can't have a clear answer right now. Like "I'm not sure this is the right relationship for me, but I need to get a handle on my OCD symptoms before figuring it out" and then seeking treatment/ taking steps to not engage in the OCD behaviors. The rest will eventually work itself out.
posted by bindr at 9:59 AM on July 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
Picture a little girl*, about four years old, watching all of this. (In case you're not familiar: they're pretty canny at that age, and tend to make endlessly clever and astute observations about people.) Picture her seeing you do a bunch of the work of homemaking while he just sits there. Picture him being not great at showing her affection, either verbally or physically. Or maybe he does okay with her, but still falls flat with you, her beloved mom whom she adores. Picture him randomly "indicating" that the two of you should just shush because he wants quiet time, in your own home. Now remember that he's her primary caregiver, and they're together most of the 8+ hours you're working every day. Most of the time he's a kind enough parent, and he does love her, but every once in a while he snaps out a zinger at her. He "just doesn't know why" and wishes he could stop, but he does it. Over and over, though maybe the exact variety of hurtfulness changes. (Sorry but it really hasn't been that long since your last question and he's already done it again and left you feeling shitty.) Some of them you hear and confront him about and he's sad and sorry, but you don't want to undermine him as a parent so these are all conversations you have privately. At best you might insist that he apologize to her directly. But meanwhile, there are plenty of incidents you never hear about, because she's too little to know how to stand up for herself against a parent, and he has all the incentives in the world to twist things around and minimize his "slip-ups" and attribute them to the stress of her making messes, spilling things, needing hugs and kisses.
Don't stay with people expecting them to change. Don't make babies with someone who has known issues around treating partners and family members well expecting him to become a great dad via the miracle of childbirth.
*Or any gender child
posted by teremala at 10:07 AM on July 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
Don't stay with people expecting them to change. Don't make babies with someone who has known issues around treating partners and family members well expecting him to become a great dad via the miracle of childbirth.
*Or any gender child
posted by teremala at 10:07 AM on July 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
Do not seriously date people who do not participate with enthusiastic equality in the relationship. You can spend a bit of time with them for sex and (okay-but-not-great) company if that is a thing you need enough that you're willing to waste some time on it, but remove them from qualification for The Long Haul.
It's a very simple one-question survey: does he participate with enthusiastic equality in the relationship? No, he does not. He does not eagerly communicate about good or bad things, he takes his mental health challenges out on you without direct acknowledgement and good-faith efforts to do better, he is content to let you put more effort into the relationship than he does.
Ding. You're done. It's incompatible with your goals. You want a supportive teammate with similar financial goals. He's neither. It's not even complicated math. He will be a great match for someone else*.
Certainly do pursue whatever help you feel is appropriate for any of your own behaviors you're not happy with, but do know that "I thought everything was fine! I was blindsided! I didn't know you weren't happy!" is a) gaslighting b) happens he didn't fucking care to ask or listen until it meant losing his benefits. Fuck those guys, one hundred percent. It does not make YOU pathological to have some damn standards.
*He won't, actually, but until women are united in noping out of taking on Learned Helplessness Posterboys it's likely someone will settle for his nice-enough self and take care of him alongside the rest of their children.
Hard truth: this may mean you spend a lot more time alone than you'd like. Maybe your whole life. If you want a family, it may mean taking that into your own hands in a way that doesn't obligate you to settle for someone. It may also mean you get on with that and later meet someone who does turn out to be a great partner and it will require a bit of rearranging of your things just as you got them how you liked them, but it'll end up a net positive. But I guarantee you that a life lived alone to your satisfaction is preferable than part of a life lived below your own happiness line until you can't take it anymore so you end it but if you have kids you have to continue having a relationship with him forever, which he may or may not weaponize against you.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:46 AM on July 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
It's a very simple one-question survey: does he participate with enthusiastic equality in the relationship? No, he does not. He does not eagerly communicate about good or bad things, he takes his mental health challenges out on you without direct acknowledgement and good-faith efforts to do better, he is content to let you put more effort into the relationship than he does.
Ding. You're done. It's incompatible with your goals. You want a supportive teammate with similar financial goals. He's neither. It's not even complicated math. He will be a great match for someone else*.
Certainly do pursue whatever help you feel is appropriate for any of your own behaviors you're not happy with, but do know that "I thought everything was fine! I was blindsided! I didn't know you weren't happy!" is a) gaslighting b) happens he didn't fucking care to ask or listen until it meant losing his benefits. Fuck those guys, one hundred percent. It does not make YOU pathological to have some damn standards.
*He won't, actually, but until women are united in noping out of taking on Learned Helplessness Posterboys it's likely someone will settle for his nice-enough self and take care of him alongside the rest of their children.
Hard truth: this may mean you spend a lot more time alone than you'd like. Maybe your whole life. If you want a family, it may mean taking that into your own hands in a way that doesn't obligate you to settle for someone. It may also mean you get on with that and later meet someone who does turn out to be a great partner and it will require a bit of rearranging of your things just as you got them how you liked them, but it'll end up a net positive. But I guarantee you that a life lived alone to your satisfaction is preferable than part of a life lived below your own happiness line until you can't take it anymore so you end it but if you have kids you have to continue having a relationship with him forever, which he may or may not weaponize against you.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:46 AM on July 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
I have anxiety issues that made it very difficult for me to know about my relationship. Advice to trust my gut did not ever help.
I ended up talking with a therapist, which I do recommend for you. They're not just for deep digging into your psychology and trauma: they're also for figuring out what you're feeling and what you want and whether you're acting reasonably in a relationship or if you're self-sabotaging by being insecure or controlling.
A few things from my counselor that changed my life:
1. No "should". Drop it completely and see if your complaint still makes sense. "I want him to", is useful information. "I feel dismissed" is useful information. "Shouldn't a relationship --" is coming from outside you and is not going to help you.
2. Give him a chance to surprise you for the better. You're not telling him things because you're afraid he'll respond badly. But is that fear based on your experience with him, or is it coming from you (and your past)? Treat him like the partner you wish he was, ask him for things and see if he makes an effort. You're considering dropping him entirely, if it turns out he's not willing to tell you about medication or to respond to your requests, what do you lose? You get knowledge, and then you can act with confidence.
3. What do you actually *want*? Think about it. Not what you think you should have or want or give, but what actually draws you? Not necessarily in the relationship but in your life.
posted by Lady Li at 11:44 AM on July 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
I ended up talking with a therapist, which I do recommend for you. They're not just for deep digging into your psychology and trauma: they're also for figuring out what you're feeling and what you want and whether you're acting reasonably in a relationship or if you're self-sabotaging by being insecure or controlling.
A few things from my counselor that changed my life:
1. No "should". Drop it completely and see if your complaint still makes sense. "I want him to", is useful information. "I feel dismissed" is useful information. "Shouldn't a relationship --" is coming from outside you and is not going to help you.
2. Give him a chance to surprise you for the better. You're not telling him things because you're afraid he'll respond badly. But is that fear based on your experience with him, or is it coming from you (and your past)? Treat him like the partner you wish he was, ask him for things and see if he makes an effort. You're considering dropping him entirely, if it turns out he's not willing to tell you about medication or to respond to your requests, what do you lose? You get knowledge, and then you can act with confidence.
3. What do you actually *want*? Think about it. Not what you think you should have or want or give, but what actually draws you? Not necessarily in the relationship but in your life.
posted by Lady Li at 11:44 AM on July 9, 2019 [9 favorites]
A note on #2, though, to be clear: this isn't about giving him infinite chances. This is about not letting your own bad ex or anxiety brain put you in a cage. Don't be stuck in a relationship with your imagined worst-case boyfriend forever instead of a relationship with the (possibly much better!) actual person in front of you.
You are choosing to give him a chance, here, if he screws it up you have the power to break up. So don't back yourself into a corner where you've preemptively decided sympathy and support are an unreasonable thing for you to ask for.
posted by Lady Li at 12:00 PM on July 9, 2019
You are choosing to give him a chance, here, if he screws it up you have the power to break up. So don't back yourself into a corner where you've preemptively decided sympathy and support are an unreasonable thing for you to ask for.
posted by Lady Li at 12:00 PM on July 9, 2019
I have very similar problems, with anxiety, trauma, and really terrible rejection experiences that make me curl up into a ball of fear whenever I have to state needs. It was crushing in my last relationship when I finally asked for what I wanted, "Why aren't you calling me your girlfriend?" and seeing him in shock after 6 months of dating, and he immediately broke up with me. I knew it deep down that he wasn't emotionally avaliable because I kept shrinking myself to not bother him with "my emotional baggage." But instead of thinking, "this guy isn't for me," I kept bending myself to conform to his wishes because I was able to sacrifice myself for what I wanted.
I still cry when I think about it, because the combination of societal conditioning and fear really makes it so easy for socialized as femme folks (I'm non-binary) to distort the shit out of their desires. I get so angry, because I feel powerful in other parts of my life, but relationships are so unbelievably hard for me. It's only my desire for connection that outlasts this, and knowing I have the tools to heal and figure out more for myself.
Give yourself permission to think about this, without thinking about anticipating your boyfriend's reactions and needs. How do you feel? Do you feel loved, supported, empowered? Do you feel like you can go to him without being judged? Can you go to him without feeling like you need to train him into who you want him to be? What would you want, if you could give yourself permission to do anything today? For yourself? Without thinking about him? Now what about him? Can he do what you want simply because you want it? What would you do if you decided you no longer wanted to decide the outcome of these conversations? If you just let the reality set in?
It's so, so unfairly hard, and I have the greatest empathy and sympathies for you. But stay present with your feelings, and know that your desires are always 100% completely valid, regardless if the other person is able to give them or not.
posted by yueliang at 1:21 PM on July 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
I still cry when I think about it, because the combination of societal conditioning and fear really makes it so easy for socialized as femme folks (I'm non-binary) to distort the shit out of their desires. I get so angry, because I feel powerful in other parts of my life, but relationships are so unbelievably hard for me. It's only my desire for connection that outlasts this, and knowing I have the tools to heal and figure out more for myself.
Give yourself permission to think about this, without thinking about anticipating your boyfriend's reactions and needs. How do you feel? Do you feel loved, supported, empowered? Do you feel like you can go to him without being judged? Can you go to him without feeling like you need to train him into who you want him to be? What would you want, if you could give yourself permission to do anything today? For yourself? Without thinking about him? Now what about him? Can he do what you want simply because you want it? What would you do if you decided you no longer wanted to decide the outcome of these conversations? If you just let the reality set in?
It's so, so unfairly hard, and I have the greatest empathy and sympathies for you. But stay present with your feelings, and know that your desires are always 100% completely valid, regardless if the other person is able to give them or not.
posted by yueliang at 1:21 PM on July 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
I don't know whether you have 'relationship OCD' or not, but:
I spent almost 5 years with a man who would never commit to more than 2 days a week, who regularly let me know how attractive he found other women, whose values weren't the same as me, who didn't have the same goals and aims in life etc. etc. Yeah, we had fun sometimes and he is still my friend. But if I'd been on metafilter then, I would have been you, asking questions about him, analysing his behaviour.
I thought I was overly analytical, too much.
Soon after we broke up I met my husband, who, as I wrote on your last question, I never had to analyse. We fit together really easily right from the first day. He never, ever made me guess how he felt. I've never had to analyse him.
This might not be anything to do with relationship OCD, it might just be that you have had a string of shitty guys who keep you guessing for months and even years because they are man babies who cannot grow up. My ex is one of these - lots of fun as a friend, but the worst boyfriend.
I don't think you should trust your gut, in fact I think that is generally crappy and simplistic advice. My 'gut' told me that my ex and I would be perfect for each other, if I could just make things right somehow. I think you should try to ignore your feelings, which are often wrong or dysfunctional (people love their abusers, after all) and instead look at this with your eyes and brain. Is this really what you want for yourself? Would you be happy for things to stay this way for years to come?
posted by thereader at 1:30 PM on July 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
I spent almost 5 years with a man who would never commit to more than 2 days a week, who regularly let me know how attractive he found other women, whose values weren't the same as me, who didn't have the same goals and aims in life etc. etc. Yeah, we had fun sometimes and he is still my friend. But if I'd been on metafilter then, I would have been you, asking questions about him, analysing his behaviour.
I thought I was overly analytical, too much.
Soon after we broke up I met my husband, who, as I wrote on your last question, I never had to analyse. We fit together really easily right from the first day. He never, ever made me guess how he felt. I've never had to analyse him.
This might not be anything to do with relationship OCD, it might just be that you have had a string of shitty guys who keep you guessing for months and even years because they are man babies who cannot grow up. My ex is one of these - lots of fun as a friend, but the worst boyfriend.
I don't think you should trust your gut, in fact I think that is generally crappy and simplistic advice. My 'gut' told me that my ex and I would be perfect for each other, if I could just make things right somehow. I think you should try to ignore your feelings, which are often wrong or dysfunctional (people love their abusers, after all) and instead look at this with your eyes and brain. Is this really what you want for yourself? Would you be happy for things to stay this way for years to come?
posted by thereader at 1:30 PM on July 9, 2019 [4 favorites]
You need to talk to him and tell him your concerns. Tell him you need him to be an equal participant and if you’ve spent the day cooking, the decent thing for him to do is clean. Tell him not to snap at you. I know you might be concerned that he’ll leave and it’ll be over but if you ask him to be a good partner and that’s his reaction, you don’t want him anyway.
His reaction will be the most telling. If he takes it on board and changes, wonderful. But if he doesn’t, it’s not on you to train him to be relationship material and I wouldn’t stick around to find out if you can. I’d lay out my issues and basically tell him you’re looking for an equal, who contributes and cares as much about you as he expects you to and if he can’t or won’t be that, then it’s not going to work and this is the only time you’ll have the conversation. He’s had complaints about his behaviour before. He hasn’t cared enough to change. You’re onto him now. He’s either in or he’s out and you’re not going to cheerlead him into being a grown up.
And this isn’t even for his benefit. This is for yours so you can look back and think that you weren’t too picky, you didn’t throw away a good thing. You tried and if you left, it’s because it was the right thing to do.
posted by Jubey at 3:31 PM on July 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
His reaction will be the most telling. If he takes it on board and changes, wonderful. But if he doesn’t, it’s not on you to train him to be relationship material and I wouldn’t stick around to find out if you can. I’d lay out my issues and basically tell him you’re looking for an equal, who contributes and cares as much about you as he expects you to and if he can’t or won’t be that, then it’s not going to work and this is the only time you’ll have the conversation. He’s had complaints about his behaviour before. He hasn’t cared enough to change. You’re onto him now. He’s either in or he’s out and you’re not going to cheerlead him into being a grown up.
And this isn’t even for his benefit. This is for yours so you can look back and think that you weren’t too picky, you didn’t throw away a good thing. You tried and if you left, it’s because it was the right thing to do.
posted by Jubey at 3:31 PM on July 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
For the first 8 months of a relationship, especially one going fairly slowly, he’s on absolutely his best behaviour and is going out of his way to impress you. This is as good as it gets. It doesn’t sound much good. Will you still be ok when he starts to slack off?
posted by tillsbury at 11:13 PM on July 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by tillsbury at 11:13 PM on July 9, 2019 [3 favorites]
It would be amazing if you could find a person who was demonstrative and generous. A person who carried their half of the relationship, and spontaneously went up to 11 without keeping score.
In fact, your OCD wouldn't even have ammunition because you would never be in doubt about their feelings. They would tell you with words.
Keep trying, don't give up, don't compromise.
posted by ohshenandoah at 5:11 AM on July 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
In fact, your OCD wouldn't even have ammunition because you would never be in doubt about their feelings. They would tell you with words.
Keep trying, don't give up, don't compromise.
posted by ohshenandoah at 5:11 AM on July 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
He sounds like a wonderful person to date for a while and then break up with before pursuing someone else. That's the truth. You may be in love with him but this obviously isn't the one.
posted by karmachameleon at 1:06 AM on July 12, 2019
posted by karmachameleon at 1:06 AM on July 12, 2019
Oh God, I just read your last question about this guy. Scratch everything I said. Just leave him. Six months ago, preferably.
posted by Jubey at 3:03 PM on July 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 3:03 PM on July 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Many of these things could be miscommunication or different styles of approaching relationships, but the thing is that you'll never know if you're not comfortable enough with your romantic partner to discuss them. So the first thing I'd suggest is to have a few very honest conversations where you both can talk about where you are, where you want to go, and how you're getting there.
What other people think about your relationship isn't really all that helpful in the long run, unless someone is finding something that you weren't even noticing (like something being hidden from you). So trust that your gut is valid, and trust also that it's something you can talk about. If you find you can't, that's the biggest red flag to me of all.
posted by xingcat at 7:30 AM on July 9, 2019 [2 favorites]