How much to bill for travel time?
June 24, 2019 6:26 PM Subscribe
I'm a writer type, not knowledgeable about business practices. Can you tell me what's typical and reasonable to bill for travel time?
I’ve been hired to help someone write his memoir. I’m doing some amalgam of transcribing, editing, and ghost writing. The material is being generated by conversations we’re having. The guy is a CEO in the financial world and is uber-wealthy. His company is based in another city, but he has offices in my city, and he comes here every two or three months. I was adamant that we have our conversations face to face, rather than by Skype or whatever, which seems critical to establish rapport. He had originally asked me if I would travel and I said no, but then I realized I could take the train to see him where he’s based, about 4 hours away. We could have a 3-hour meeting, and I could be home the same day. If I did that every six weeks or so, we could keep the thing moving.
I’m charging him an hourly fee like a consultant, because the project is so amorphous I didn’t know how to come up with a project fee. The question I have is how to charge for my travel time. A friend who is familiar with the financial world (something I am not) has instructed me to bill for absolutely everything. Bill for travel? Of course! he says. And I do feel like I should be compensated since it will be a very long day, I’ll have to get a dog sitter, etc. To charge my full fee for the travel time (about 8 hours total) feels like too much. I’m inclined to charge 50% of my normal fee. This is a guy for whom money is no object, and yet I don’t want to gouge him. What’s fair, normal, reasonable?
I’ve been hired to help someone write his memoir. I’m doing some amalgam of transcribing, editing, and ghost writing. The material is being generated by conversations we’re having. The guy is a CEO in the financial world and is uber-wealthy. His company is based in another city, but he has offices in my city, and he comes here every two or three months. I was adamant that we have our conversations face to face, rather than by Skype or whatever, which seems critical to establish rapport. He had originally asked me if I would travel and I said no, but then I realized I could take the train to see him where he’s based, about 4 hours away. We could have a 3-hour meeting, and I could be home the same day. If I did that every six weeks or so, we could keep the thing moving.
I’m charging him an hourly fee like a consultant, because the project is so amorphous I didn’t know how to come up with a project fee. The question I have is how to charge for my travel time. A friend who is familiar with the financial world (something I am not) has instructed me to bill for absolutely everything. Bill for travel? Of course! he says. And I do feel like I should be compensated since it will be a very long day, I’ll have to get a dog sitter, etc. To charge my full fee for the travel time (about 8 hours total) feels like too much. I’m inclined to charge 50% of my normal fee. This is a guy for whom money is no object, and yet I don’t want to gouge him. What’s fair, normal, reasonable?
If it was possible to fly and the consultant opted instead to take the train, I would be significantly more grumpy about the travel time.
Yes, I concur. If a consultant picked anything less than the fastest way to get to the destination and billed me for the extra time, I would be greatly annoyed.
In my industry (electronics manufacturing/design), I would say "normal" policies range all over the place - but all of them end up billing for travel time in one way or another. I've generally seen that hours >8 hours a day in travel are not billed (to avoid the case of a consultant arriving a day earlier, and then charging for the consultant to sleep). I've also generally seen that consultants that bill 100% of their travel time will also specify that the travel time is used for work (ie, working on a plane). I've correspondingly generally seen 50% discounts on travel, but with the caveat that travel time will not be used for work.
posted by saeculorum at 6:37 PM on June 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
Yes, I concur. If a consultant picked anything less than the fastest way to get to the destination and billed me for the extra time, I would be greatly annoyed.
In my industry (electronics manufacturing/design), I would say "normal" policies range all over the place - but all of them end up billing for travel time in one way or another. I've generally seen that hours >8 hours a day in travel are not billed (to avoid the case of a consultant arriving a day earlier, and then charging for the consultant to sleep). I've also generally seen that consultants that bill 100% of their travel time will also specify that the travel time is used for work (ie, working on a plane). I've correspondingly generally seen 50% discounts on travel, but with the caveat that travel time will not be used for work.
posted by saeculorum at 6:37 PM on June 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
I don't work as a consultant, but I think it's reasonable that you would work on the train and then charge as usual for that time, and charge a travel fee that covers the train fare and food. I don't necessarily think you'd need to fly (If you count the time it takes to get to the airport, wait for the plane, etc., it's probably not faster, and it probably also isn't cheaper).
posted by pinochiette at 7:09 PM on June 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by pinochiette at 7:09 PM on June 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
You should bill for travel time at your full rate. You might want to limit this to 8 hours of billable travel time in a given day. I absolutely would not offer a 50% discount to this client. Sure you could do that for a non-profit or some other client with limited means, but not this client.
The only exception is if you are doing other billable work (for another client) while you are traveling. Don't bill for time that you are charging to someone else.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:16 PM on June 24, 2019 [9 favorites]
The only exception is if you are doing other billable work (for another client) while you are traveling. Don't bill for time that you are charging to someone else.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:16 PM on June 24, 2019 [9 favorites]
Presumably you have to prep for the meetings and work with the output of the meetings afterwards? Surely you’ll be doing a chunk of that on the train on those days? If it’s normal working time surely you just charge your normal rate?
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:31 PM on June 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:31 PM on June 24, 2019 [1 favorite]
Don't sell yourself short. Don't think, "I'm a lowly writer, he's a big businessman, and my time isn't worth being paid for."
Your client is wealthy. He works in the financial industry in a very senior position. He is used to paying people many hundreds of dollars an hour to get work done for him. Those people would charge full freight to take a train for 8 hours. He would pay them without blinking an eye. He trusts you to write his memoir. He wants to work with you on this. Your work is just as important and valuable as the work of those other people he has hired.
I have a friend who does government contract work for HUD. They pay her full hourly rate for travel time.
I ran a software consulting company for many years. We always charged full freight for travel time. There were *probably* some times when a client asked us to reduce this, and in that case we likely agreed. But we would never negotiate against ourselves by offering a discounted rate for travel in our proposal. The starting point should be full rate.
Let me tell you a story: I got an email from someone who wanted us to do a couple of days of work on a piece of music software that we had helped write. He wanted some instruments tweaked or something. He said he was working on an art installation. He was from Italy.
I figured he was a student or a poor artist, and so I felt bad quoting him our full rate. I gave him a quote that represented a 50% discount but still came out to about $1,000. He responded to my email immediately, accepting the proposal. It was only then that I Googled him and found out that he and his brother bought Fiat (the company, not the car), turned it around, and sold it to Chrysler a few years later. He had retired from business and turned his attention to art. This was all at a time when my company was short of work and having to scrape to make payroll.
Don't be that person. You don't need to Google this guy. You know he's got the money and is used to paying it. You need it more than he does. He wants to have a working relationship with you, hopefully a respectful one. Valuing your time is a good place to start.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:10 PM on June 24, 2019 [17 favorites]
Your client is wealthy. He works in the financial industry in a very senior position. He is used to paying people many hundreds of dollars an hour to get work done for him. Those people would charge full freight to take a train for 8 hours. He would pay them without blinking an eye. He trusts you to write his memoir. He wants to work with you on this. Your work is just as important and valuable as the work of those other people he has hired.
I have a friend who does government contract work for HUD. They pay her full hourly rate for travel time.
I ran a software consulting company for many years. We always charged full freight for travel time. There were *probably* some times when a client asked us to reduce this, and in that case we likely agreed. But we would never negotiate against ourselves by offering a discounted rate for travel in our proposal. The starting point should be full rate.
Let me tell you a story: I got an email from someone who wanted us to do a couple of days of work on a piece of music software that we had helped write. He wanted some instruments tweaked or something. He said he was working on an art installation. He was from Italy.
I figured he was a student or a poor artist, and so I felt bad quoting him our full rate. I gave him a quote that represented a 50% discount but still came out to about $1,000. He responded to my email immediately, accepting the proposal. It was only then that I Googled him and found out that he and his brother bought Fiat (the company, not the car), turned it around, and sold it to Chrysler a few years later. He had retired from business and turned his attention to art. This was all at a time when my company was short of work and having to scrape to make payroll.
Don't be that person. You don't need to Google this guy. You know he's got the money and is used to paying it. You need it more than he does. He wants to have a working relationship with you, hopefully a respectful one. Valuing your time is a good place to start.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:10 PM on June 24, 2019 [17 favorites]
If you want a point of view from the far other end of the spectrum, at the non profit I worked at we weren’t able to charge for travel time where we were the passenger (so driving-yes, train-no). However, we could put in hours for the time that we were working on the train/plane w/e. Figure out how much time you can reasonably work on the trim and charge for that.
posted by raccoon409 at 8:20 PM on June 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by raccoon409 at 8:20 PM on June 24, 2019 [2 favorites]
Reading between the lines, I suspect your hourly rate is low. Most people make this mistake. No harm done. But the point is: you're almost certainly not going to overcharge him for travel.
Charge your hourly fee for local travel (under 2 hours each way). Charge a daily rate for longer trips. Something like 10x your hourly rate is common. Make sure he covers all expenses (including 3 meals), or round up, or include a per diem.
And if you'd prefer to take the train like a civilized person in a modern country then take the dang train! A flight is 4 hours door-to-door anyway. Don't let this guy (or anyone) tell you you need to fly to be respectful of his time.
posted by caek at 10:13 PM on June 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
Charge your hourly fee for local travel (under 2 hours each way). Charge a daily rate for longer trips. Something like 10x your hourly rate is common. Make sure he covers all expenses (including 3 meals), or round up, or include a per diem.
And if you'd prefer to take the train like a civilized person in a modern country then take the dang train! A flight is 4 hours door-to-door anyway. Don't let this guy (or anyone) tell you you need to fly to be respectful of his time.
posted by caek at 10:13 PM on June 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
Traveling to him IS working for him. I would charge the normal hourly rate, but give him veto power over the plans, just like I would anything else I do for him. If he doesn't like the train idea because it's slower, he can say so (ahead of time) and then maybe the deal's off for now.
Just use the principle of least surprise - if you think he might not agree, ask. He might not agree to the train idea, but it's not a crazy thing to ask.
posted by ctmf at 10:55 PM on June 24, 2019
Just use the principle of least surprise - if you think he might not agree, ask. He might not agree to the train idea, but it's not a crazy thing to ask.
posted by ctmf at 10:55 PM on June 24, 2019
In my world, as a consultant, I charge expenses to the customer (incl. train fares, hotel bills, meals etc) exactly as incurred. If I'm working on the train, I also charge for that time in the normal way - half a day's travel during which I do half a day's work would be charged as such to the customer.
Sometimes I spend the travel time just gazing out of the window, or reading a book, or whatever. IMO, it's disingenuous to charge my customer for that time. If that's how I want to spend my time, that's on me. Although the customer still pays my fare, because they've asked me to attend their location & that's the only reason I'm travelling.
So - if you feel weird about charging for your travel time, just make sure you use that time constructively on this guy's project & you're all set. You're working, so of course you charge him.
Of course, you can typically get a lot more work done on a train journey than on a flight of equivalent mileage - largely because you don't have to dick around in any airports. That's only one of the ways that train travel is more enjoyable.
posted by rd45 at 2:55 AM on June 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
Sometimes I spend the travel time just gazing out of the window, or reading a book, or whatever. IMO, it's disingenuous to charge my customer for that time. If that's how I want to spend my time, that's on me. Although the customer still pays my fare, because they've asked me to attend their location & that's the only reason I'm travelling.
So - if you feel weird about charging for your travel time, just make sure you use that time constructively on this guy's project & you're all set. You're working, so of course you charge him.
Of course, you can typically get a lot more work done on a train journey than on a flight of equivalent mileage - largely because you don't have to dick around in any airports. That's only one of the ways that train travel is more enjoyable.
posted by rd45 at 2:55 AM on June 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
From the moment you step on the train to the moment you step off Bill all expenses to the client. Don’t bill hourly unless you’re working.
posted by geoff. at 4:05 AM on June 25, 2019
posted by geoff. at 4:05 AM on June 25, 2019
You should be billing your client 100%. Full travel days are 8 hours + expenses. Partial travel days are hourly + expenses. That's just the facts. If you're doing something your client told you to do and you're charging an hourly rate, you bill the client your rate + expenses.
This is because if you weren't traveling, your time would be spent either working for pay (for them or some other client), or off-duty. You should be paid for time you're not off. No discounts.
If you can comfortably work during travel (e.g. plane), do so. Otherwise, you can just be thinking about the project.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:44 AM on June 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
This is because if you weren't traveling, your time would be spent either working for pay (for them or some other client), or off-duty. You should be paid for time you're not off. No discounts.
If you can comfortably work during travel (e.g. plane), do so. Otherwise, you can just be thinking about the project.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:44 AM on June 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
Work in a company where we do occasional consultancy work, for which we typically charge 50% for travel time (plus all actual travel costs), but there is no expectation given or expected (particularly as it often involves long haul travel) that that time is being used for work.
IMHO, you are within your rights to charge 100%, but just be prepared for the fact that this may heighten the customer's expectations around the length and method of travel, as well as how prepared you are when you turn up.
posted by ryanbryan at 5:07 AM on June 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
IMHO, you are within your rights to charge 100%, but just be prepared for the fact that this may heighten the customer's expectations around the length and method of travel, as well as how prepared you are when you turn up.
posted by ryanbryan at 5:07 AM on June 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Key point: by traveling to your client, you are providing a special service, and special services have a cost.
Having done something like this...
I drove a couple of hours to meet the client. Because I was driving and therefore not actively working, I charged 50% of my rate for travel time. That's just how I chose to do it.
If I had been taking a train and planned to work for most of the ride, I would have charged full.
Smarter people than me do not charge an hourly rate. They charge a full service package (which would include travel days that may or may not occur) or a retainer fee.
I'll add for clarity that I don't send an invoice for little things like tickets and meals, that seems petty. Instead I charge a high enough fee that all that stuff is easily covered and I still get paid.
Now let me say more about WHY I charge for travel...
Because traveling to someone is a special service. They are paying you to have you come to them, and not the other way around. You are saving them time and energy that allows them to work and focus on other things while you travel. That is a service!
Because traveling has a cost to me beyond simply the costs associated.
Because they are paying to retain my services, so that I do not opt to work with someone else (instead of travelling)
If you weren't traveling, you'd be better able to take on another client in that time and make full wages without traveling, right?
posted by jander03 at 5:18 AM on June 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Having done something like this...
I drove a couple of hours to meet the client. Because I was driving and therefore not actively working, I charged 50% of my rate for travel time. That's just how I chose to do it.
If I had been taking a train and planned to work for most of the ride, I would have charged full.
Smarter people than me do not charge an hourly rate. They charge a full service package (which would include travel days that may or may not occur) or a retainer fee.
I'll add for clarity that I don't send an invoice for little things like tickets and meals, that seems petty. Instead I charge a high enough fee that all that stuff is easily covered and I still get paid.
Now let me say more about WHY I charge for travel...
Because traveling to someone is a special service. They are paying you to have you come to them, and not the other way around. You are saving them time and energy that allows them to work and focus on other things while you travel. That is a service!
Because traveling has a cost to me beyond simply the costs associated.
Because they are paying to retain my services, so that I do not opt to work with someone else (instead of travelling)
If you weren't traveling, you'd be better able to take on another client in that time and make full wages without traveling, right?
posted by jander03 at 5:18 AM on June 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
It sounds like the client has asked you to travel to him instead of using the time when he is in your city anyway? So it's at his convenience? Traveling 8 hr round-trip for a 3-hr meeting seems like a big inconvenience to you!
In that case, I would say bill your travel at 50% time + actual expenses (train fare, meals) if just traveling (daydreaming or working on something else while on the train/plane), or 100% time + expenses if you're actively working on his project while in transit.
If it feels petty to you to expense the fare and the meals or whatever, just charge a travel per diem that folds them in. So if your usual rate is 100/hr, and estimating $150 for trainfare and $50 for meals/parking/other incidentals, you can charge a flat rate of $1000 if working full-time on the train or $600 if the train is just chugging you along.
posted by basalganglia at 5:52 AM on June 25, 2019
In that case, I would say bill your travel at 50% time + actual expenses (train fare, meals) if just traveling (daydreaming or working on something else while on the train/plane), or 100% time + expenses if you're actively working on his project while in transit.
If it feels petty to you to expense the fare and the meals or whatever, just charge a travel per diem that folds them in. So if your usual rate is 100/hr, and estimating $150 for trainfare and $50 for meals/parking/other incidentals, you can charge a flat rate of $1000 if working full-time on the train or $600 if the train is just chugging you along.
posted by basalganglia at 5:52 AM on June 25, 2019
We're talking about non-working travel time here. If you're working while traveling, you bill for it at the full rate to whoever you're working for (not necessarily the client for whom you're traveling).
I don't know of any industry where non-working travel is customarily billed at 100% with no caps, and it's quite routine for client engagements to negotiate even lower than what is customary. In the hourly fee portion of my firm's business, we bill at non-working travel at 50% of the traveling professional's regular hourly rate. We don't have an 8 hour cap and we occasionally recapture some of that discount via our blended average rate cap. (In other words, if for a certain engagement we've agreed that our blended average rate won't exceed $500/hour, and someone who bills $600 an hour is traveling, the $300/hour rate applicable to travel ends of offsetting some of the discount required to get overall time averaging $500/hour.)
The one thing you should be comfortable with is that your client doesn't expect professionals to bill at 0% for non-working travel, and he is very familiar with travel time being very large relative to working time. (As careful as I try to be with our clients' money, sometimes traveling for 10 hours round trip for a 2 hour meeting is just a thing that is necessary.)
posted by MattD at 9:11 AM on June 25, 2019
I don't know of any industry where non-working travel is customarily billed at 100% with no caps, and it's quite routine for client engagements to negotiate even lower than what is customary. In the hourly fee portion of my firm's business, we bill at non-working travel at 50% of the traveling professional's regular hourly rate. We don't have an 8 hour cap and we occasionally recapture some of that discount via our blended average rate cap. (In other words, if for a certain engagement we've agreed that our blended average rate won't exceed $500/hour, and someone who bills $600 an hour is traveling, the $300/hour rate applicable to travel ends of offsetting some of the discount required to get overall time averaging $500/hour.)
The one thing you should be comfortable with is that your client doesn't expect professionals to bill at 0% for non-working travel, and he is very familiar with travel time being very large relative to working time. (As careful as I try to be with our clients' money, sometimes traveling for 10 hours round trip for a 2 hour meeting is just a thing that is necessary.)
posted by MattD at 9:11 AM on June 25, 2019
In my business (essentially a niche area of consulting), we charge full rate for travel time in addition to costs. The only thing we don't do is charge an overtime rate for travel (150%). Travel time is always charged as straight time. Don't undersell yourself.
Also, a 4 hour train trip is likely equivalent to the time you'd spend flying as you need to get to the airport at least an hour ahead of fight time if not more. Travel from your home/office to the airport, airport wait time, flight time, airport exit time will be close to your train charges.
posted by quince at 9:59 AM on June 25, 2019
Also, a 4 hour train trip is likely equivalent to the time you'd spend flying as you need to get to the airport at least an hour ahead of fight time if not more. Travel from your home/office to the airport, airport wait time, flight time, airport exit time will be close to your train charges.
posted by quince at 9:59 AM on June 25, 2019
OP here. I'm going to pierce the shroud of anonymity which I donned out of some excessive sense of protecting the privacy of this client. Thanks to everyone who's weighed in here. There are clearly varying takes and viewpoints. I think the two things that are adding to my hesitancy about how to charge for this is 1) this is a personal project and not "official business." And 2) I'm the one who's been adamant about meeting face to face, as opposed to Skype. He may or may not care, but I absolutely care and feel face to face is essential. So this is my condition, which he probably prefers also. We could wait and have face to face meetings every three months, but that too seems suboptimal for developing rapport and ease. So some of this is me instating what I believe are the best conditions to get down to business, and it just happens to entail travel for which I also feel I should be paid. If I felt Skype was just as good, I'd certainly do it. So anyway. I definitely feel that it's either full fee or 50%. The no fee option is not something I'm considering. Also flying IS an option but I do feel that when all is said and done I might only save an hour. Apparently the train is a short walk from his office. Happily, I have until late July to figure this out.
posted by swheatie at 11:09 AM on June 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by swheatie at 11:09 AM on June 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
this is a personal project and not "official business."
Please don't make distinction between the two. A large number of people need to make their livelihood based on "official business", and having lower-cost "personal projects" undercuts those people. The result is a deflation of labor cost in the market, to the detriment of all the people that do the sort of work you do. Your time is valuable - all of it.
And 2) I'm the one who's been adamant about meeting face to face, as opposed to Skype. He may or may not care, but I absolutely care and feel face to face is essential. So this is my condition, which he probably prefers also.
Business agreements are mutual and include considerations from both side. You have no idea if your client interested in decreasing cost. However, you seem to have good evidence that they are interested in a quality project - probably why they contacted you. You should not negotiate away the quality of your product when you are being contacted due to the quality of your product.
posted by saeculorum at 12:42 PM on June 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
Please don't make distinction between the two. A large number of people need to make their livelihood based on "official business", and having lower-cost "personal projects" undercuts those people. The result is a deflation of labor cost in the market, to the detriment of all the people that do the sort of work you do. Your time is valuable - all of it.
And 2) I'm the one who's been adamant about meeting face to face, as opposed to Skype. He may or may not care, but I absolutely care and feel face to face is essential. So this is my condition, which he probably prefers also.
Business agreements are mutual and include considerations from both side. You have no idea if your client interested in decreasing cost. However, you seem to have good evidence that they are interested in a quality project - probably why they contacted you. You should not negotiate away the quality of your product when you are being contacted due to the quality of your product.
posted by saeculorum at 12:42 PM on June 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
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For non-local travel, it can very a great deal by contract:
We pay a day rate, which includes travel time.
We pay a discounted rate for travel time.
We are charged a block rate for a week and do not pay travel time separately, but it's rolled into the week price.
In all cases where I pay travel time, I specify that the consultant is expected to work where possible on our behalf during the travel. (transcription, etc.)
If it was possible to fly and the consultant opted instead to take the train, I would be significantly more grumpy about the travel time.
posted by frumiousb at 6:30 PM on June 24, 2019 [1 favorite]