what does it feel like to be managed?
June 22, 2019 7:23 PM Subscribe
My employer is expanding rapidly, and I think only now starting to realize there is a distinct skill of managing people as opposed to managing projects. Unfortunately, this is my first job out of college, so I have no idea what good management looks like. If you've been managed well, what were your managers able to do for you? What would be reasonable to ask of a manager?
At least in my department, the managers were promoted from the ranks and describe themselves as minimally completing the necessary paperwork to, e.g., coordinate shifts and get people their paychecks. They freely admit that they do what they do more because someone has to than because they were particularly qualified or enthusiastic.
This place is very self-directed and emphasizes the flatness of its hierarchy. In many cases, I like the effects: I can coordinate directly with peers in other departments. I have substantial freedom to choose and plan my work, including purchasing equipment and supplies. I feel like ideas are considered on their merits, rather than their sponsors. I typically value and trust the advice I get, including on interpersonal questions like, "How can I convince X of Y?" or "Was I out of line there...?"
But I do wonder what I'm missing. Hence this question. If you have had good managers (of people, as opposed to projects, products, or facilities), what were they able to do for you?
Some possibilities, no idea if these are realistic:
- Have regular (quarterly? monthly?) one-on-one meetings where they tell me how I'm doing and how they came to that conclusion. I've gotten raises, and I'm not unappreciative of that, but I have approximately no idea why or what I should do to make them happen again.
- Suggest things I could do better and coach me (over time) as I try to improve. In the past I have explicitly asked where I could do better, but whatever answer they give at the time there is no attempt to make sure I actually do it, or recognition later that I have or have not done so. It's as if they made something up on the spot and immediately forgot about it.
- Tell me what plans they have for my continued presence at the company. What they want me to do for them in N years, what I should be doing now to prepare for that, etc.
I guess part of this is anxiety that at some point I'll fall off this magical gravy train into the rest of the 21st century, and discover that I'm actually way behind in some way that these guys didn't know or care to correct but which future employers will dislike.
If it helps, I'm of above-average tenure and I think (I hope?) I'm regarded as competent and helpful. People ask me for advice and sometimes volunteer praise for the quality of my work. I supervise and evaluate interns, and adjunct (TA? proctor?) the new-hire training. I do not manage anyone, and I think I'm okay with that (unless the pay would be way better).
Because the higher-ups have generally been smart, conscientious people and they often give me good advice on specific questions, I'm hopeful that there are specific requests I could make of them which would be helpful to me and not onerous for them. I just have no idea what the options are.
At least in my department, the managers were promoted from the ranks and describe themselves as minimally completing the necessary paperwork to, e.g., coordinate shifts and get people their paychecks. They freely admit that they do what they do more because someone has to than because they were particularly qualified or enthusiastic.
This place is very self-directed and emphasizes the flatness of its hierarchy. In many cases, I like the effects: I can coordinate directly with peers in other departments. I have substantial freedom to choose and plan my work, including purchasing equipment and supplies. I feel like ideas are considered on their merits, rather than their sponsors. I typically value and trust the advice I get, including on interpersonal questions like, "How can I convince X of Y?" or "Was I out of line there...?"
But I do wonder what I'm missing. Hence this question. If you have had good managers (of people, as opposed to projects, products, or facilities), what were they able to do for you?
Some possibilities, no idea if these are realistic:
- Have regular (quarterly? monthly?) one-on-one meetings where they tell me how I'm doing and how they came to that conclusion. I've gotten raises, and I'm not unappreciative of that, but I have approximately no idea why or what I should do to make them happen again.
- Suggest things I could do better and coach me (over time) as I try to improve. In the past I have explicitly asked where I could do better, but whatever answer they give at the time there is no attempt to make sure I actually do it, or recognition later that I have or have not done so. It's as if they made something up on the spot and immediately forgot about it.
- Tell me what plans they have for my continued presence at the company. What they want me to do for them in N years, what I should be doing now to prepare for that, etc.
I guess part of this is anxiety that at some point I'll fall off this magical gravy train into the rest of the 21st century, and discover that I'm actually way behind in some way that these guys didn't know or care to correct but which future employers will dislike.
If it helps, I'm of above-average tenure and I think (I hope?) I'm regarded as competent and helpful. People ask me for advice and sometimes volunteer praise for the quality of my work. I supervise and evaluate interns, and adjunct (TA? proctor?) the new-hire training. I do not manage anyone, and I think I'm okay with that (unless the pay would be way better).
Because the higher-ups have generally been smart, conscientious people and they often give me good advice on specific questions, I'm hopeful that there are specific requests I could make of them which would be helpful to me and not onerous for them. I just have no idea what the options are.
I could go on about this for a while, because, well, it's kinda what I do when I'm not screwing around on Metafilter. But I would say that, as a very broad rule, a good manager is in it for their team, a bad or mediocre manager is in it for themselves. Companies create bad management by creating perverse incentive structures, like giving managers $X/hr raises, or making managing X people a prerequisite to advancement within the company. Which necessarily results in lots of people with little interest and even less talent for management going into it. Those places tend to be uniformly toxic—which is not to say that there aren't good managers there, just that they'll be swimming against the current in order to not be shitty.
Good managers know their people: know what their goals are, what motivates them, what they hate doing, etc. And they structure taskings and assignments in a way that at least recognizes that knowledge. That's not to say that everyone gets to do what they want to do all the time, but a good manager won't make you eat a shit sandwich and tell you it's tuna; they'll at least be upfront about why you're being asked to do something crappy and what the upside is for you.
Good managers are ethical: there's a lot that can and has been written about ethics, but at a first approximation, a good manager doesn't ask anyone to do anything that they wouldn't do, if the role was reversed. Or, if forced to ask people to do things not in their best interests by the capriciousness of higher management, a good manager at least admits what's going on, and doesn't lie or try to spin a no-win situation as an opportunity when they know that's not the case. (See above re shit sandwiches.)
Good managers take care of 'their people', which implies a concrete understanding of who 'their people' are, which implies a hierarchical relationship and not some "matrix management" bullshit where nobody is really responsible for anyone else. (IMO, matrix management is an invention by sociopaths designed to undermine accountability and allow sociopathic behavior within organizations, by destroying accountability for other people's welfare. Run away screaming from it, if you can.)
I think that I'm a reasonably good manager, but of course this is a classic Dunning-Kruger trap: all managers think they're at least decent managers, and the worst think that they're great ones. Beware of anyone who thinks they're God's gift to management or that they're beloved by all their direct reports; they are probably morons who can't appreciate criticism if it was rendered in the form of a rotten trout and slapped in their face. Good managers are constantly racked by doubt, because some of the questions you have to deal with are fundamentally unknowable, insofar as they involve other people.
Generally speaking, I don't think you can be a good manager if you aren't having at least monthly 1:1 interactions with your direct reports. Individually, preferably in some sort of low-pressure setting. I like to take everyone out to lunch periodically, unless they say they prefer some sort of alternative venue. (Lunch works well for most people but not all, some people don't like it. A reasonable manager is also flexible.) There are lots of managers who don't bother with 1:1s with this sort of frequency; I think there is a high correlation between managers who don't do 1:1s but think they understand what's going on with their direct reports, and managers who get blindsided when one of their direct reports suddenly quits (or goes to HR, or goes to their ombudsman, or whatever). Maybe in slow-moving organizations where you've known everyone for years, you can get away with being a decent manager and not doing monthly 1:1s ... but I am skeptical.
From the employee's perspective, I would have a firm idea of what you want your future to look like within the company, and communicate that. Or at least, work together to figure that out; I wouldn't depend on your manager to come up with your goals for you. Companies inherently would just prefer that nobody ever advance; it's easier if people are interchangeable cogs in a great machine and exist unchanging within that framework. (If you're a Junior Widgetmaker, the company is going to be really stoked if you'll just continue to be a Junior Widgetmaker for the next 20 years, because that means they don't have to do jack shit for you.) If you don't want to keep doing what you're doing forever, you should at the very least communicate that clearly to your manager: you should tell them what you want to be doing in N years, and then let them tell you if that's feasible, and if it is, what you should be doing to get there. They should help with the "how do I get there", but the decision of where you want to go is yours. If you let your manager come up with your goals, you'll end up with pretty unimpressive goals, unless you have a manager who has more ambition for your future than you do (not actually that uncommon, but somewhat depressing).
Your fear that you will fall behind in some way that your current employer doesn't care about, but future employers will dislike, is real and valid. You should think on that and make sure that you are always keeping yourself appealing on the competitive market. Because yes, your company can and will (and is strongly incentivized to) undermine your value to other firms if they can do so while maintaining your value to them. E.g. (ex. from my industry) professional certifications—if your company knows you can do a skill, there's little value to them in paying for a professional cert; that really only matters if you, individually, need to prove you have that skill externally. If you're not in an external-facing role, they'll probably drag their feet on getting you that certification. It costs them money, gains them nothing, and gives you more value in the market, so they'll probably have to pay you more to stay. So if you want stuff like that, you'll need to clearly articulate it, and your manager (if they're not shitty) will go to bat for you to make it happen. But nothing happens if you don't express the desire, because the whole reason things like that—which the company has no inherent interest in—happen, is because otherwise you might quit. That's the only leverage you generally have, and it's what your manager is trying to avoid. Because they do well because you make them look good, by doing your job well, and the reciprocal part of that relationship is they protect you and do things for you to advance your career.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:50 PM on June 22, 2019 [37 favorites]
Good managers know their people: know what their goals are, what motivates them, what they hate doing, etc. And they structure taskings and assignments in a way that at least recognizes that knowledge. That's not to say that everyone gets to do what they want to do all the time, but a good manager won't make you eat a shit sandwich and tell you it's tuna; they'll at least be upfront about why you're being asked to do something crappy and what the upside is for you.
Good managers are ethical: there's a lot that can and has been written about ethics, but at a first approximation, a good manager doesn't ask anyone to do anything that they wouldn't do, if the role was reversed. Or, if forced to ask people to do things not in their best interests by the capriciousness of higher management, a good manager at least admits what's going on, and doesn't lie or try to spin a no-win situation as an opportunity when they know that's not the case. (See above re shit sandwiches.)
Good managers take care of 'their people', which implies a concrete understanding of who 'their people' are, which implies a hierarchical relationship and not some "matrix management" bullshit where nobody is really responsible for anyone else. (IMO, matrix management is an invention by sociopaths designed to undermine accountability and allow sociopathic behavior within organizations, by destroying accountability for other people's welfare. Run away screaming from it, if you can.)
I think that I'm a reasonably good manager, but of course this is a classic Dunning-Kruger trap: all managers think they're at least decent managers, and the worst think that they're great ones. Beware of anyone who thinks they're God's gift to management or that they're beloved by all their direct reports; they are probably morons who can't appreciate criticism if it was rendered in the form of a rotten trout and slapped in their face. Good managers are constantly racked by doubt, because some of the questions you have to deal with are fundamentally unknowable, insofar as they involve other people.
Generally speaking, I don't think you can be a good manager if you aren't having at least monthly 1:1 interactions with your direct reports. Individually, preferably in some sort of low-pressure setting. I like to take everyone out to lunch periodically, unless they say they prefer some sort of alternative venue. (Lunch works well for most people but not all, some people don't like it. A reasonable manager is also flexible.) There are lots of managers who don't bother with 1:1s with this sort of frequency; I think there is a high correlation between managers who don't do 1:1s but think they understand what's going on with their direct reports, and managers who get blindsided when one of their direct reports suddenly quits (or goes to HR, or goes to their ombudsman, or whatever). Maybe in slow-moving organizations where you've known everyone for years, you can get away with being a decent manager and not doing monthly 1:1s ... but I am skeptical.
From the employee's perspective, I would have a firm idea of what you want your future to look like within the company, and communicate that. Or at least, work together to figure that out; I wouldn't depend on your manager to come up with your goals for you. Companies inherently would just prefer that nobody ever advance; it's easier if people are interchangeable cogs in a great machine and exist unchanging within that framework. (If you're a Junior Widgetmaker, the company is going to be really stoked if you'll just continue to be a Junior Widgetmaker for the next 20 years, because that means they don't have to do jack shit for you.) If you don't want to keep doing what you're doing forever, you should at the very least communicate that clearly to your manager: you should tell them what you want to be doing in N years, and then let them tell you if that's feasible, and if it is, what you should be doing to get there. They should help with the "how do I get there", but the decision of where you want to go is yours. If you let your manager come up with your goals, you'll end up with pretty unimpressive goals, unless you have a manager who has more ambition for your future than you do (not actually that uncommon, but somewhat depressing).
Your fear that you will fall behind in some way that your current employer doesn't care about, but future employers will dislike, is real and valid. You should think on that and make sure that you are always keeping yourself appealing on the competitive market. Because yes, your company can and will (and is strongly incentivized to) undermine your value to other firms if they can do so while maintaining your value to them. E.g. (ex. from my industry) professional certifications—if your company knows you can do a skill, there's little value to them in paying for a professional cert; that really only matters if you, individually, need to prove you have that skill externally. If you're not in an external-facing role, they'll probably drag their feet on getting you that certification. It costs them money, gains them nothing, and gives you more value in the market, so they'll probably have to pay you more to stay. So if you want stuff like that, you'll need to clearly articulate it, and your manager (if they're not shitty) will go to bat for you to make it happen. But nothing happens if you don't express the desire, because the whole reason things like that—which the company has no inherent interest in—happen, is because otherwise you might quit. That's the only leverage you generally have, and it's what your manager is trying to avoid. Because they do well because you make them look good, by doing your job well, and the reciprocal part of that relationship is they protect you and do things for you to advance your career.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:50 PM on June 22, 2019 [37 favorites]
Having regular one-on-ones is extremely helpful for both the manager and the employee. I have one weekly with my manager and also with my direct report. It's a good chance to catch up on project statuses, talk about priorities, for the employee to bring up any concerns or questions, for the manager to provide coaching. I'm sorry your manager is not doing these for you. You could suggest one and provide a suggested format.
It's also totally reasonable for your manager to give you guidelines on how to move up and help coach you as you're working towards this. I am a Manager and am trying to get to Senior Manager, and my boss has given me big-picture expectations as well as specific direction and also feedback when I could have handled something better.
posted by radioamy at 10:32 PM on June 22, 2019
It's also totally reasonable for your manager to give you guidelines on how to move up and help coach you as you're working towards this. I am a Manager and am trying to get to Senior Manager, and my boss has given me big-picture expectations as well as specific direction and also feedback when I could have handled something better.
posted by radioamy at 10:32 PM on June 22, 2019
One of my best managers told me his job was the following:
* Give me the resources I needed to do to do my job.
* Prevent other teams from trying to take my time away.
* Ensure that all credit was given to the team (and none of it to him).
* Ensure that all blame was laid at his feet (and not at his team's).
He was a great manager at a large corporation with a pretty political environment (that we were entirely shielded from).
posted by el io at 12:34 AM on June 23, 2019 [12 favorites]
* Give me the resources I needed to do to do my job.
* Prevent other teams from trying to take my time away.
* Ensure that all credit was given to the team (and none of it to him).
* Ensure that all blame was laid at his feet (and not at his team's).
He was a great manager at a large corporation with a pretty political environment (that we were entirely shielded from).
posted by el io at 12:34 AM on June 23, 2019 [12 favorites]
that we were entirely shielded from
This is key.
Hire competent people, make sure they understand what needs to be done, get out of their way while they do it, and be an umbrella to shelter them from the inevitable rain of bullshit from the C suite.
It's a dirty thankless job and I wouldn't do it in a pink fit; intractable technological problems are much easier to deal with than intractable people problems. But I have spent many years appreciating the hell out of people who have the skills and do it well. A good manager can make a workplace not merely tolerable but actually enjoyable.
posted by flabdablet at 4:56 AM on June 23, 2019 [5 favorites]
This is key.
Hire competent people, make sure they understand what needs to be done, get out of their way while they do it, and be an umbrella to shelter them from the inevitable rain of bullshit from the C suite.
It's a dirty thankless job and I wouldn't do it in a pink fit; intractable technological problems are much easier to deal with than intractable people problems. But I have spent many years appreciating the hell out of people who have the skills and do it well. A good manager can make a workplace not merely tolerable but actually enjoyable.
posted by flabdablet at 4:56 AM on June 23, 2019 [5 favorites]
One thing that good management shares with good parenting is an orientation toward building on strengths rather than trying to correct weaknesses. Obviously both of these things will need to be done at some point, but it's amazing how much better people work when the former is the default position.
posted by flabdablet at 7:15 AM on June 23, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 7:15 AM on June 23, 2019 [4 favorites]
Decent or average managers demonstrated an understanding of my strengths and weaknesses and my personality and how it related to how I did my job. Great managers spent little to no time telling me telling me to improve my weaknesses and more time working with me to apply my strengths where it could have the most impact.
My previous (great) manager routed a high impact project away from a highly visible and competitive "superstar" employee and directed it to me because he understood that I was better at thinking analytically, wasn't going to step on toes while getting it done, and would be willing to stick with the problem for a couple of years instead of seeking out the next high recognition activity before it was done. It quickly became my signature achievement, and other managers in the business have sent their employees to me for guidance.
Contrast this with my current, well-meaning but kind of crappy manager. Lots of talk about how I need to "move the needle", constant focus on what I'm going to do to improve my perceived weaknesses, no real acknowledgement or understanding of what my strengths are. Doesn't understand why I'm not going to be a highly competitive superstar like him. Seems kind of offended when I don't come out for after work drinks (I have kids, he doesn't).
posted by TrialByMedia at 9:45 AM on June 23, 2019 [5 favorites]
My previous (great) manager routed a high impact project away from a highly visible and competitive "superstar" employee and directed it to me because he understood that I was better at thinking analytically, wasn't going to step on toes while getting it done, and would be willing to stick with the problem for a couple of years instead of seeking out the next high recognition activity before it was done. It quickly became my signature achievement, and other managers in the business have sent their employees to me for guidance.
Contrast this with my current, well-meaning but kind of crappy manager. Lots of talk about how I need to "move the needle", constant focus on what I'm going to do to improve my perceived weaknesses, no real acknowledgement or understanding of what my strengths are. Doesn't understand why I'm not going to be a highly competitive superstar like him. Seems kind of offended when I don't come out for after work drinks (I have kids, he doesn't).
posted by TrialByMedia at 9:45 AM on June 23, 2019 [5 favorites]
This is a great resource that covers a lot: https://managerchecklist.teambit.io/
posted by lafemma at 3:36 PM on June 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by lafemma at 3:36 PM on June 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
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posted by caek at 7:51 PM on June 22, 2019