A Strange Situation
June 22, 2019 9:07 AM Subscribe
Can you give me tips and strategies to deal with my boss's strange behavior?
I am having a hard time working with my manager and need advice. Manager is mid-fifties, female. I am mid-forties, female. We have worked together for twelve years.
My job has its perks and is very stressful, as many jobs are. Boss has a hyper, type-A personality. I'll list some of manager's behaviors and maybe AskMe can provide more insight and advice on how I should proceed.
• Talks loudly over others, interrupts
• Talks loudly in general
• Likes to be center of attention
• Dominates the conversation and rarely allows the client or coworker to tell their story
• Is unprofessional and often talks about inappropriate things in front of clients, i.e. sex, her period, drinking, politics, will talk in ebonics or mock Asian accent
• Has obsession with running. Seems to identify with it. Talks about running often during the day. This is her largest topic.
• Brags endlessly about her race times, athletic achievements, or other perceived or real achievements
• Obsessed with her weight
• Talks daily about her glory days as a high-school and college athlete
• Says highschool was the best part of her life, while freely admitting she was a bully in highschool
• Lies often about why she is leaving office for three-and four-day weekends, or leaving early for the day. Why not tell the truth? Who cares? I think she wants to slip out without upper management knowing she is gone and doesn't want to use it as personal time off.
• Lies and stalls about a particular piece of equipment that needs repair or replacement. This equipment is vital to our job and brings a great deal of stress that it’s not working
• Is manipulative and often tries to “butter people up” in order to get something from them. Example: I often edit her work, create documents, etc. for her. I am one kind of professional. She is another. I take care of the people. She’s the manager and creating, editing, and composing professional documents or presentations is her domain. I often “rescue” her when she needs help with these items, or when she’s stuck.
• Regularly steels from other departments in order not to pay for items we need to operate our department
• I work just as many hours and practically run the place apart from the budget standpoint. I know all the inner workings of clients and their problems and needs. She should have more of a handle on this but doesn’t. She is checked out.
• Waits until last minute to make schedule. Makes frequent errors. Will ask me to work on days off. I always say yes.
• Always thinking ahead. Talks constantly. Very frazzled. Makes numerous errors. Is talking to herself when she enters the door. Narrates her day in the future. Example: “At 1pm I’m going to do this. When I get home, I’m going to do that.”
• Tells me what to do because she’s hyper and controlling. (I’ve done it a million times before and am competent.)
• Never in the moment and can’t seem to have a genuine conversation. She will dominate the conversation and can talk endlessly without a breath. She will ask what I’m reading and soon as I utter the title, she will say, “oh really” and begin talking about herself again. I no longer share or talk with her because of this. She doesn’t seem to notice.
A story she has recently told: "This weekend I was running and there was this woman ahead of me running and I had to catch her. I caught her a few times, then she caught me, and then I passed her again. She was young and thin so I had to catch her. If she were older and chubby I wouldn't have cared."
She will pull up her shirt, show her flat stomach, and complain how fat she is. This woman is in her fifties and behaves so much like a teenager.
We work alongside other departments and will say strange things like "I know what every person in here makes."
She will shower people (mostly clients) with false praise and then brags that she got so and so to smile or "they were so happy", or whatever.
This is what bugs me the most: For years she has talked about MY running and talks about it almost daily. This is perplexing and strange. This is not an interesting topic of conversation and I don't know why she brings it up. I rarely discuss what I do for exercise and I never talk about it with clients. I rarely discuss myself at all. Years ago, and for a number years, I was in a running club. I was a slow "runner" --a jogger-- and have participated in a couple dozen long and short races over the years. It was a hobby and a good way to socialize while exercising.. I haven't run since 2016. My manager knows this and will often talk about my running with people I don't know. Over the years, I will estimate that she has talked about my running (I am a regular staff person who nobody knows) more than fifty times. They are often her colleagues and other heads of departments. "I told Jane about your running." "I told Claire that you and I did that half-marathon together." "I told Betsy your story about your running." I'm thinking, WHY?
I think the reason why she's talking about it is she's comparing herself to me -- I am an amateur runner, an unlikely runner in her eyes, and she likes to claim that she was the catalyst to my running hobby. We work in a health and wellness field. I think she tells her colleagues my story because she wants to paint me as this chubby success story and take some credit and compare herself to me. I want to tell her to shut up about my running. It was years ago and nobody gives a damn. Runners are a dime a dozen. How do I do this politely and effectively? She now knows I do yoga and now talks about this frequently. It's bizarre.
She will frequently inject little digs about me. She will vacillate between digs and praise. I have told her about some of my "failures" in yoga and she will bring these up to clients? Why? Clients could care less. It's a bizarre thing to do. I want it to stop.
She will approach a client when they come in the door. Instead of greeting them, asking them how their day is going, and address their needs, she will break out into a story about her or my exercise. Example: Client enters business and sits down. Manager will go into story about her running (could be from a decade ago when she ran a marathon in the freezing rain) or the time I did yoga and fell.
She frequently tells me how much she likes me or how "great" I am. Tells me she needs me. For a period of time she would text me nightly telling me how great I am. We never communicate by text apart from occasional work stuff. After several nightly texts, I told her that she didn't have to tell me how great I am, and I'm not so great, and I ended it with a friendly little message and said I would see her on Monday. The texts stopped thankfully. Boss claims to like me but she doesn't know me because I can't get a word in edgewise. I rarely talk about my life. There is no time. We are very busy. She knows the general story but she doesn't know anything else because I don't share. Maybe she likes me because I listen to her and don't talk.
She likes the status quo of me not complaining and going with the flow. I don't praise her running -- it's such a worn out subject. I've been trying to extinguish the running talk for years, but I haven't been successful. I rarely bring up work problems, and we have loads, mainly because of poor management. If I do professionally bring up work problems, she gets mad and instead of handling it in a professional way, she will yell, "I'm going to play the lottery this weekend."
How do I communicate with this type of person? My M.O. all of this time has been to ignore and avoid but then she runs all over with me with work stuff or brings up my exercise or other personal topics. She seems to have a deep insecurity. On the other hand, I think she genuinely thinks she is a stellar athlete, and manager, even though she never played division 1, never won a title, maybe won a medal here and there for her age group in running. Our very small department knows more of the inner workings and day-to-day than she does. It's great to play division 2, or have fond memories of college days, or whatever, but her obsession and endless bragging is strange.
Many times I have wanted to quit because of her alone. Lately I have been more assertive and things have been chilly at work. She no longer "likes" me as much.
She may never end her running talk, bragging, or lying. How can I get her to stop talking about me to others? This job has so many good qualities -- the hours and the clients, mainly. My line of work is stressful and jumping to another department may not solve my problems. Reporting her is unlikely to be productive.
Thanks for any advice.
I am having a hard time working with my manager and need advice. Manager is mid-fifties, female. I am mid-forties, female. We have worked together for twelve years.
My job has its perks and is very stressful, as many jobs are. Boss has a hyper, type-A personality. I'll list some of manager's behaviors and maybe AskMe can provide more insight and advice on how I should proceed.
• Talks loudly over others, interrupts
• Talks loudly in general
• Likes to be center of attention
• Dominates the conversation and rarely allows the client or coworker to tell their story
• Is unprofessional and often talks about inappropriate things in front of clients, i.e. sex, her period, drinking, politics, will talk in ebonics or mock Asian accent
• Has obsession with running. Seems to identify with it. Talks about running often during the day. This is her largest topic.
• Brags endlessly about her race times, athletic achievements, or other perceived or real achievements
• Obsessed with her weight
• Talks daily about her glory days as a high-school and college athlete
• Says highschool was the best part of her life, while freely admitting she was a bully in highschool
• Lies often about why she is leaving office for three-and four-day weekends, or leaving early for the day. Why not tell the truth? Who cares? I think she wants to slip out without upper management knowing she is gone and doesn't want to use it as personal time off.
• Lies and stalls about a particular piece of equipment that needs repair or replacement. This equipment is vital to our job and brings a great deal of stress that it’s not working
• Is manipulative and often tries to “butter people up” in order to get something from them. Example: I often edit her work, create documents, etc. for her. I am one kind of professional. She is another. I take care of the people. She’s the manager and creating, editing, and composing professional documents or presentations is her domain. I often “rescue” her when she needs help with these items, or when she’s stuck.
• Regularly steels from other departments in order not to pay for items we need to operate our department
• I work just as many hours and practically run the place apart from the budget standpoint. I know all the inner workings of clients and their problems and needs. She should have more of a handle on this but doesn’t. She is checked out.
• Waits until last minute to make schedule. Makes frequent errors. Will ask me to work on days off. I always say yes.
• Always thinking ahead. Talks constantly. Very frazzled. Makes numerous errors. Is talking to herself when she enters the door. Narrates her day in the future. Example: “At 1pm I’m going to do this. When I get home, I’m going to do that.”
• Tells me what to do because she’s hyper and controlling. (I’ve done it a million times before and am competent.)
• Never in the moment and can’t seem to have a genuine conversation. She will dominate the conversation and can talk endlessly without a breath. She will ask what I’m reading and soon as I utter the title, she will say, “oh really” and begin talking about herself again. I no longer share or talk with her because of this. She doesn’t seem to notice.
A story she has recently told: "This weekend I was running and there was this woman ahead of me running and I had to catch her. I caught her a few times, then she caught me, and then I passed her again. She was young and thin so I had to catch her. If she were older and chubby I wouldn't have cared."
She will pull up her shirt, show her flat stomach, and complain how fat she is. This woman is in her fifties and behaves so much like a teenager.
We work alongside other departments and will say strange things like "I know what every person in here makes."
She will shower people (mostly clients) with false praise and then brags that she got so and so to smile or "they were so happy", or whatever.
This is what bugs me the most: For years she has talked about MY running and talks about it almost daily. This is perplexing and strange. This is not an interesting topic of conversation and I don't know why she brings it up. I rarely discuss what I do for exercise and I never talk about it with clients. I rarely discuss myself at all. Years ago, and for a number years, I was in a running club. I was a slow "runner" --a jogger-- and have participated in a couple dozen long and short races over the years. It was a hobby and a good way to socialize while exercising.. I haven't run since 2016. My manager knows this and will often talk about my running with people I don't know. Over the years, I will estimate that she has talked about my running (I am a regular staff person who nobody knows) more than fifty times. They are often her colleagues and other heads of departments. "I told Jane about your running." "I told Claire that you and I did that half-marathon together." "I told Betsy your story about your running." I'm thinking, WHY?
I think the reason why she's talking about it is she's comparing herself to me -- I am an amateur runner, an unlikely runner in her eyes, and she likes to claim that she was the catalyst to my running hobby. We work in a health and wellness field. I think she tells her colleagues my story because she wants to paint me as this chubby success story and take some credit and compare herself to me. I want to tell her to shut up about my running. It was years ago and nobody gives a damn. Runners are a dime a dozen. How do I do this politely and effectively? She now knows I do yoga and now talks about this frequently. It's bizarre.
She will frequently inject little digs about me. She will vacillate between digs and praise. I have told her about some of my "failures" in yoga and she will bring these up to clients? Why? Clients could care less. It's a bizarre thing to do. I want it to stop.
She will approach a client when they come in the door. Instead of greeting them, asking them how their day is going, and address their needs, she will break out into a story about her or my exercise. Example: Client enters business and sits down. Manager will go into story about her running (could be from a decade ago when she ran a marathon in the freezing rain) or the time I did yoga and fell.
She frequently tells me how much she likes me or how "great" I am. Tells me she needs me. For a period of time she would text me nightly telling me how great I am. We never communicate by text apart from occasional work stuff. After several nightly texts, I told her that she didn't have to tell me how great I am, and I'm not so great, and I ended it with a friendly little message and said I would see her on Monday. The texts stopped thankfully. Boss claims to like me but she doesn't know me because I can't get a word in edgewise. I rarely talk about my life. There is no time. We are very busy. She knows the general story but she doesn't know anything else because I don't share. Maybe she likes me because I listen to her and don't talk.
She likes the status quo of me not complaining and going with the flow. I don't praise her running -- it's such a worn out subject. I've been trying to extinguish the running talk for years, but I haven't been successful. I rarely bring up work problems, and we have loads, mainly because of poor management. If I do professionally bring up work problems, she gets mad and instead of handling it in a professional way, she will yell, "I'm going to play the lottery this weekend."
How do I communicate with this type of person? My M.O. all of this time has been to ignore and avoid but then she runs all over with me with work stuff or brings up my exercise or other personal topics. She seems to have a deep insecurity. On the other hand, I think she genuinely thinks she is a stellar athlete, and manager, even though she never played division 1, never won a title, maybe won a medal here and there for her age group in running. Our very small department knows more of the inner workings and day-to-day than she does. It's great to play division 2, or have fond memories of college days, or whatever, but her obsession and endless bragging is strange.
Many times I have wanted to quit because of her alone. Lately I have been more assertive and things have been chilly at work. She no longer "likes" me as much.
She may never end her running talk, bragging, or lying. How can I get her to stop talking about me to others? This job has so many good qualities -- the hours and the clients, mainly. My line of work is stressful and jumping to another department may not solve my problems. Reporting her is unlikely to be productive.
Thanks for any advice.
My knee-jerk reaction, after having read all of that, is that you should find another job. I don't give that advice flippantly, I just don't think that you can make her, encourage her, lead her to be the person you want her to be after twelve years of facilitating this behavior by saving her from embarrassing mistakes, sacrificing your time, giving her anecdotal ammunition to use against you, letting her talk over you, etc.
I'm not blaming you for her behavior, but I just legitimately don't think this is going to get better without some higher-than-her support, which does not sound likely from your description of things.
posted by sm1tten at 9:28 AM on June 22, 2019 [42 favorites]
I'm not blaming you for her behavior, but I just legitimately don't think this is going to get better without some higher-than-her support, which does not sound likely from your description of things.
posted by sm1tten at 9:28 AM on June 22, 2019 [42 favorites]
Short answer: shop your resume around for other jobs with good hours and good clients, and better bosses.
Longer answer: She's got issues. You won't be able to get her to change all or most of these. You *might* be able to pick one or two things and get her to make adjustments on them.
A slightly more charitable POV of her talking about your running is that she wants to tell people something interesting and impressive about you and 1) she doesn't know much about you and 2) she doesn't understand that some people are interested in and impressed by things that she isn't.
It's also possible that she somehow thinks something like 'if clients think we're a bunch of exercise fiends they'll assume we're also competitive, energetic and hard-working on their stuff.'
If you can ask her about it in a neutral, curious way: "Why do you tell clients about my running?" you might get an interesting answer. If you know the purpose, you might be able to suggest a substitute talking point that meets the same purpose without making you uncomfortable.
Revisiting the question I noticed the little digs about yoga mishaps, etc., so my interpretations may be too charitable. But asking her about it might still get you some answers. And looking for a better job still seems like the way to go.
posted by bunderful at 9:33 AM on June 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
Longer answer: She's got issues. You won't be able to get her to change all or most of these. You *might* be able to pick one or two things and get her to make adjustments on them.
A slightly more charitable POV of her talking about your running is that she wants to tell people something interesting and impressive about you and 1) she doesn't know much about you and 2) she doesn't understand that some people are interested in and impressed by things that she isn't.
It's also possible that she somehow thinks something like 'if clients think we're a bunch of exercise fiends they'll assume we're also competitive, energetic and hard-working on their stuff.'
If you can ask her about it in a neutral, curious way: "Why do you tell clients about my running?" you might get an interesting answer. If you know the purpose, you might be able to suggest a substitute talking point that meets the same purpose without making you uncomfortable.
Revisiting the question I noticed the little digs about yoga mishaps, etc., so my interpretations may be too charitable. But asking her about it might still get you some answers. And looking for a better job still seems like the way to go.
posted by bunderful at 9:33 AM on June 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
This reminds me of my mother in law, who harps on things ad infinitum, to the point where we stopped telling her much at all - but then, of course, this exacerbates the situation because she only knows a small amount about what’s going on in our lives and therefore only has those few topics to bring up over and over again.
Right now your running is probably one of the only things your boss knows about you outside of work, and given that it’s something you “share” she probably feels like it makes you friends. Anyway, I have to keep having my mother in law, but you don’t have to keep having this boss. I’d strongly suggest starting to look for something else. Typing this many words about how annoying you find your boss - this means it’s probably time to move on.
posted by something something at 9:35 AM on June 22, 2019 [3 favorites]
Right now your running is probably one of the only things your boss knows about you outside of work, and given that it’s something you “share” she probably feels like it makes you friends. Anyway, I have to keep having my mother in law, but you don’t have to keep having this boss. I’d strongly suggest starting to look for something else. Typing this many words about how annoying you find your boss - this means it’s probably time to move on.
posted by something something at 9:35 AM on June 22, 2019 [3 favorites]
Is there an HR department at your place of employment? I would definitely start documenting the broken critical equipment and the stealing from other departments. Then with the times she has inappropriate conversations with other people, especially clients. Then with the number of times she asks you to work on your day off. Finally with the digs she makes about you and others.
Your boss is crazy, self-centered, manipulative, immature, massively inappropriate, incompetent, and dishonest. I would do whatever I could to find a different job and to report everything you just said to someone with the authority to fire her. Upper management probably won’t do anything about the shit she says, but they should definitely care that she’s screwing up work for multiple departments with the not-fixing and the stealing. And if for some bizarre reason they don’t even care about that, then it is *really* time to leave.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:40 AM on June 22, 2019 [5 favorites]
Your boss is crazy, self-centered, manipulative, immature, massively inappropriate, incompetent, and dishonest. I would do whatever I could to find a different job and to report everything you just said to someone with the authority to fire her. Upper management probably won’t do anything about the shit she says, but they should definitely care that she’s screwing up work for multiple departments with the not-fixing and the stealing. And if for some bizarre reason they don’t even care about that, then it is *really* time to leave.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:40 AM on June 22, 2019 [5 favorites]
She sounds like "a lot", and you sound tired of it all. I would think of her as family that requires special care and a lot of patience to deal with. I would also look for ways where you can take breaks from her. Work somewhere else a couple days a week, out of a cafe or something. Take a vacation. Partner with someone else on some projects to insulate yourself. This is important in any long term intense relationship of this kind.
I listened to an interview with Seinfeld musing on why the Beatles broke up. He said how you ever taken an all day road trip with someone - anyone? You can not wait to get away from that person after. Too much proximity for too long just wears anyone out. But keep in mind you have been working together productively for 12 years, which means something works. I would a million times rather work with someone I'm tired of and exhausted by than someone who is out to get me (it happens), truly bad intentioned, sabotaging, or otherwise evil or impossible.
Get away as much as you can. Make new friends. Involve yourself in work she won't be around. Take breaks. Appreciate the fact that you can at least work together even though its hard. A twelve year working relationship, any twelve year relationship frankly, is pretty rare. She's a difficult family member at this point, but as much as you may want to run away I'm guessing there's some positives.
My own work experiences have been such that I'm thankful to work with any colleague not actively trying to get other people fired for extremely petty reasons. It's a low bar, I know. :-)
posted by xammerboy at 9:49 AM on June 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
I listened to an interview with Seinfeld musing on why the Beatles broke up. He said how you ever taken an all day road trip with someone - anyone? You can not wait to get away from that person after. Too much proximity for too long just wears anyone out. But keep in mind you have been working together productively for 12 years, which means something works. I would a million times rather work with someone I'm tired of and exhausted by than someone who is out to get me (it happens), truly bad intentioned, sabotaging, or otherwise evil or impossible.
Get away as much as you can. Make new friends. Involve yourself in work she won't be around. Take breaks. Appreciate the fact that you can at least work together even though its hard. A twelve year working relationship, any twelve year relationship frankly, is pretty rare. She's a difficult family member at this point, but as much as you may want to run away I'm guessing there's some positives.
My own work experiences have been such that I'm thankful to work with any colleague not actively trying to get other people fired for extremely petty reasons. It's a low bar, I know. :-)
posted by xammerboy at 9:49 AM on June 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
She keeps you close, probably because you are her major competition inside the company. She probably also considers you a friend and would likely be very shocked that you clearly don't like her at all and find her embarrassing and difficult to be around. This, in spite of the fact that she actively tries to diminish you by being overly familiar and telling your personal experiences without your permission, etc. She herself told you she's a bully, right?
Truthfully, you either have to make the play for the job you want inside this company or leave. You're tired of being one down in this situation, are attempting to assert yourself, and looking for her to give you different treatment as a show of respect. She will not. If anything, she will start undermining you surreptitiously rather than overtly. And if she starts that, it will be all out war. It will likely get ugly and there will come a point past which it will be too late for you to leave on your own terms.
If you can get more pay in a better job at a different office within the same organization, and that's what you want, do that. If this is the single office of this organization, she is not going to change. You will have to do the changing or you need to move on.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 10:49 AM on June 22, 2019 [9 favorites]
Truthfully, you either have to make the play for the job you want inside this company or leave. You're tired of being one down in this situation, are attempting to assert yourself, and looking for her to give you different treatment as a show of respect. She will not. If anything, she will start undermining you surreptitiously rather than overtly. And if she starts that, it will be all out war. It will likely get ugly and there will come a point past which it will be too late for you to leave on your own terms.
If you can get more pay in a better job at a different office within the same organization, and that's what you want, do that. If this is the single office of this organization, she is not going to change. You will have to do the changing or you need to move on.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 10:49 AM on June 22, 2019 [9 favorites]
For sheer annoyingness, please enjoy this Ask-A-Manager question about another boss who can‘t let go of a made up story about her employee.
Maybe the comments will help - or at least it‘ll be cathartic!
posted by Omnomnom at 11:08 AM on June 22, 2019
Maybe the comments will help - or at least it‘ll be cathartic!
posted by Omnomnom at 11:08 AM on June 22, 2019
> … while freely admitting she was a bully in highschool
She still is. The comments about your running are a means of shaming you.
You're not going to get a better job inside the company until she's gone. It's very hard to get concessions from this kind of manager. Sounds like you're in a workplace where senior management is a boyzone, and she's being more than one of the boys to compensate.
posted by scruss at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2019 [2 favorites]
She still is. The comments about your running are a means of shaming you.
You're not going to get a better job inside the company until she's gone. It's very hard to get concessions from this kind of manager. Sounds like you're in a workplace where senior management is a boyzone, and she's being more than one of the boys to compensate.
posted by scruss at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2019 [2 favorites]
I don't know how to add flashing siren icons, so this will have to do: **often talks about inappropriate things in front of clients, i.e. sex, [...] will talk in ebonics or mock Asian accent.**
This is not legal advice, but this also sounds like a very serious problem: "For years she has talked about MY running and talks about it almost daily" and "will often talk about my running with people I don't know" because "I think she tells her colleagues my story because she wants to paint me as this chubby success story" and "I want to tell her to shut up about my running."
Just because you are both women doesn't mean you are not being harassed, and it doesn't mean that this wasn't part of a pattern of harassment even though this troubling behavior has stopped: "For a period of time she would text me nightly telling me how great I am." Especially because you feel like this: "Many times I have wanted to quit because of her alone."
I'm also sorry to hear that it sounds like you may be facing retaliation after your attempts to address some of these issues: "Lately I have been more assertive and things have been chilly at work. She no longer "likes" me as much."
I suggest that you consult with an attorney (MeFi Wiki) with a focus on employment law (NELA) in your area, and consider asking about what you may be able to do about a hostile, discriminatory, and retaliatory work environment.
posted by Little Dawn at 2:22 PM on June 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
This is not legal advice, but this also sounds like a very serious problem: "For years she has talked about MY running and talks about it almost daily" and "will often talk about my running with people I don't know" because "I think she tells her colleagues my story because she wants to paint me as this chubby success story" and "I want to tell her to shut up about my running."
Just because you are both women doesn't mean you are not being harassed, and it doesn't mean that this wasn't part of a pattern of harassment even though this troubling behavior has stopped: "For a period of time she would text me nightly telling me how great I am." Especially because you feel like this: "Many times I have wanted to quit because of her alone."
I'm also sorry to hear that it sounds like you may be facing retaliation after your attempts to address some of these issues: "Lately I have been more assertive and things have been chilly at work. She no longer "likes" me as much."
I suggest that you consult with an attorney (MeFi Wiki) with a focus on employment law (NELA) in your area, and consider asking about what you may be able to do about a hostile, discriminatory, and retaliatory work environment.
posted by Little Dawn at 2:22 PM on June 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
It doesn't sound great, and it sounds like a very difficult situation for you. I'm sorry you have to live with this.
One of the things I've observed in a long work life is that people have very different boundaries about what is and isn't appropriate at work. Some people prefer to keep their personal life out of work, and others try to make personal connections. Those two models can coexist, and neither are perfect for every situation. But I tend to find that bad things happen when two people with a very different view on work boundaries are forced to work together over long periods of time. Often the type you are describing is very effective in areas like sales and account management, and so may have support from upper management.
Even the stuff like stealing from other departments (unless she's stealing cars) would probably just inspire eye rolling or even laughter. It's unlikely to be a call to action.
Here's what I would do:
1.
Consider again if you want to stay. Your dislike for this woman is extremely personal. You don't like her style. She's demonstrated repeatedly (the texts, etc.) that having you personally connected to her is important to her and she doesn't see a bright line between work and personal. If your dislike of her becomes evident, my fear is that it will go very badly indeed. When two people disagree about a work issue: "I love process mapping!" "I just want to get on with it!"-- that's an easy problem to solve. When someone feels personally rejected, it can be very difficult to navigate even for the most mature manager. And it doesn't sound like she's very mature.
2.
If you do want to stay, the advice above about looking at her like a difficult family member is really good advice.
3.
The thing about talking about you to others is tricky. Either she's bullying you or she's trying to connect with you. If it's the first and she's supported by upper management then there isn't very much you can do except grey rock it and not react. You could *try* saying to her: "I'm a bit insecure about my sports, Sally. Could you not discuss that with other people?" If she's doing out of clumsiness and trying to build a connection, that could stop her. If she's bullying you, it's likely going to make it worse.
4.
The racist jokes bother me the most in what you're describing. I'm not sure what you can do about any of that, but I will say that at the least I would freeze that and not laugh or react. If there are non-white people there who could be personally hurt, I would see if they need support or want help from you. If you're white, you may be able to help them by supporting their eventual complaint.
Earlier in my career, I got a boss like this fired. How it happened was an important client who I was friends with made a direct complaint about her behaviour (she got visibly tipsy at a cocktail party they had organised). It worked. She was gone. But she had sponsors too, to get where she was-- and believe me when I tell you that it didn't make me friends with those people.
posted by frumiousb at 5:52 PM on June 22, 2019 [2 favorites]
One of the things I've observed in a long work life is that people have very different boundaries about what is and isn't appropriate at work. Some people prefer to keep their personal life out of work, and others try to make personal connections. Those two models can coexist, and neither are perfect for every situation. But I tend to find that bad things happen when two people with a very different view on work boundaries are forced to work together over long periods of time. Often the type you are describing is very effective in areas like sales and account management, and so may have support from upper management.
Even the stuff like stealing from other departments (unless she's stealing cars) would probably just inspire eye rolling or even laughter. It's unlikely to be a call to action.
Here's what I would do:
1.
Consider again if you want to stay. Your dislike for this woman is extremely personal. You don't like her style. She's demonstrated repeatedly (the texts, etc.) that having you personally connected to her is important to her and she doesn't see a bright line between work and personal. If your dislike of her becomes evident, my fear is that it will go very badly indeed. When two people disagree about a work issue: "I love process mapping!" "I just want to get on with it!"-- that's an easy problem to solve. When someone feels personally rejected, it can be very difficult to navigate even for the most mature manager. And it doesn't sound like she's very mature.
2.
If you do want to stay, the advice above about looking at her like a difficult family member is really good advice.
3.
The thing about talking about you to others is tricky. Either she's bullying you or she's trying to connect with you. If it's the first and she's supported by upper management then there isn't very much you can do except grey rock it and not react. You could *try* saying to her: "I'm a bit insecure about my sports, Sally. Could you not discuss that with other people?" If she's doing out of clumsiness and trying to build a connection, that could stop her. If she's bullying you, it's likely going to make it worse.
4.
The racist jokes bother me the most in what you're describing. I'm not sure what you can do about any of that, but I will say that at the least I would freeze that and not laugh or react. If there are non-white people there who could be personally hurt, I would see if they need support or want help from you. If you're white, you may be able to help them by supporting their eventual complaint.
Earlier in my career, I got a boss like this fired. How it happened was an important client who I was friends with made a direct complaint about her behaviour (she got visibly tipsy at a cocktail party they had organised). It worked. She was gone. But she had sponsors too, to get where she was-- and believe me when I tell you that it didn't make me friends with those people.
posted by frumiousb at 5:52 PM on June 22, 2019 [2 favorites]
After 12 years, the sunk cost of this job may make it feel like too much to walk away from, so take some time to really consider what you want from it. I have found this free career guide workbook really useful for working out what I actually want.
You can't change her. You can ask her to stop certain things (the accent mocking, the bringing up your yoga "failure" to clients, the billing shenanigans) but she may well not. At the moment she sounds like she takes up a lot more real estate in your head than she deserves; consider evicting her.
posted by Gin and Broadband at 1:59 AM on June 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
You can't change her. You can ask her to stop certain things (the accent mocking, the bringing up your yoga "failure" to clients, the billing shenanigans) but she may well not. At the moment she sounds like she takes up a lot more real estate in your head than she deserves; consider evicting her.
posted by Gin and Broadband at 1:59 AM on June 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
Well, some narcissistic and borderline traits too. What we used to call rich in cluster b.
posted by namesarehard at 1:49 PM on June 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by namesarehard at 1:49 PM on June 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
Many times I have wanted to quit because of her alone.
That voice might be worth listening to.
You will never, in a million years, change someone who is this dysfunctional. The only thing you can do with people like this is to avoid them.
But she's your boss – so you can't exactly avoid her.
If there were any justice in the world, she would get fired, because no one should have to work under someone like this.
But if she's been there for twelve years, that seems pretty unlikely.
Which leaves you with only two real options: (1) continuing to live with the current situation, and (2) quitting (and, possibly, telling HR why you're quitting during your exit interview).
I know which one I'd pick.
Good luck.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:49 AM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
That voice might be worth listening to.
You will never, in a million years, change someone who is this dysfunctional. The only thing you can do with people like this is to avoid them.
But she's your boss – so you can't exactly avoid her.
If there were any justice in the world, she would get fired, because no one should have to work under someone like this.
But if she's been there for twelve years, that seems pretty unlikely.
Which leaves you with only two real options: (1) continuing to live with the current situation, and (2) quitting (and, possibly, telling HR why you're quitting during your exit interview).
I know which one I'd pick.
Good luck.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:49 AM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also, do what you can to keep yourself in direct contact with your grandbosses.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:26 AM on June 22, 2019 [14 favorites]