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June 3, 2019 4:50 PM Subscribe
Help solve a question my 11 year-old and I can’t figure out: do Dr. Strange and Dr. Strangelove exist in the same universe? We have a low bar and would be satisfied if (1) there was any evidence of any Marvel comic books/superheroes in the film, even second- or third-order, or (2) any Kubric film had ever been referenced any Marvel comic/film. Thanks!
Dr. Strangelove ends with the beginning of what is implied will be a global thermonuclear war, which is never referenced in the MCU. It's possible the war was averted, or took place in an alternate timeline that the main MCU isn't in, but it seems like that would stretch the whole "same universe" concept too far.
I can't think of any superhero actor crossover with Kubrick except Nicole Kidman, but that was DC (Eyes Wide Shut, Aquaman).
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 4:58 PM on June 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
I can't think of any superhero actor crossover with Kubrick except Nicole Kidman, but that was DC (Eyes Wide Shut, Aquaman).
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 4:58 PM on June 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Netflix's The Punisher has a Full Metal Jacket quote.
posted by zamboni at 5:08 PM on June 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 5:08 PM on June 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
I can't think of any superhero actor crossover with Kubrick except Nicole Kidman
If we're including Daredevil, Vincent D'Onofrio.
posted by zamboni at 5:13 PM on June 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
If we're including Daredevil, Vincent D'Onofrio.
posted by zamboni at 5:13 PM on June 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
The character Dr. Strangelove was a sendup of H-Bomb parent and enthusiast Edward Teller, by all accounts.
posted by jamjam at 5:41 PM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by jamjam at 5:41 PM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
So after some googling, a stretch but... Dr Strangelove (released 1964 but referring to earlier events) ends with the Russian Doomsday machine being triggered. The Doomsday Machine is a character in Marvel comics (Ultimo, an ancient robot, referred to as both Doomsday Device and Doomsday Machine) featuring in a story (released 1966 but referring to earlier events) in which the Doomsday machine, under the control of The Mandarin, was defeated and dropped into a volcano, presumed (incorrectly) to be destroyed, not to be seen again until the 1990s.
OR WAS HE?!? Russia claims in Dr Strangelove that their Doomsday machine is nuclear, but obviously they don't want anyone to know that it's really Ultimo recovered from the volcano. If so, then the end of the movie may indicate a non-nuclear cataclysmic destruction, hence a nuclear one not being recorded in the Marvel timeline.
I think you need to photoshop the Winter Soldier into the Russian background (he was a Russian asset during the Dr Strangelove period), and perhaps Peggy Carter in the background of the US operations facilities, then it becomes completely and indisputably official and legit that they take place in the same universe. Done deal.
posted by anonymisc at 9:26 PM on June 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
OR WAS HE?!? Russia claims in Dr Strangelove that their Doomsday machine is nuclear, but obviously they don't want anyone to know that it's really Ultimo recovered from the volcano. If so, then the end of the movie may indicate a non-nuclear cataclysmic destruction, hence a nuclear one not being recorded in the Marvel timeline.
I think you need to photoshop the Winter Soldier into the Russian background (he was a Russian asset during the Dr Strangelove period), and perhaps Peggy Carter in the background of the US operations facilities, then it becomes completely and indisputably official and legit that they take place in the same universe. Done deal.
posted by anonymisc at 9:26 PM on June 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
i feel like you can assume the answer is "probably yes" if your bar is that, at some point, a character in some sort of marvel property, or even more narrowly the main marvel comic universe, has made a pop culture reference to a stanley kubrick film, thus suggesting that dr. strange has indeed very likely seen dr. strangelove. i don't find it impossible but with so much content, with so many writers, with so much of kubrick's oeuvre imprinted on the american psyche, i do find it highly improbable that there are less than dozens of direct kubrick film references made by characters, including the film in question. however, someone else is going to have to dig through those archives to absolutely prove it lolz. in fact, i'll go so far to say that i find it unlikely that dr. strangelove hasn't been referenced IN dr. strange, by more than one writer.
the reverse doesn't really work, because dr. strangelove is so over-the-top in it's satire that the world outside of the characters hardly exists, so unless it is explicit in the text, it doesn't feel in the spirit of the work. just my dumb opinion heh.
posted by rotten at 1:00 AM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
the reverse doesn't really work, because dr. strangelove is so over-the-top in it's satire that the world outside of the characters hardly exists, so unless it is explicit in the text, it doesn't feel in the spirit of the work. just my dumb opinion heh.
posted by rotten at 1:00 AM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
Best answer: (2) any Kubric film had ever been referenced any Marvel comic/film.
I wish there was a search engine for comics, because I can promise you that there have been references to various Kubrick movies throughout the comics.
Not exactly the MCU, but connected, there's a "redrum" reference in Agents of SHIELD S05E18. AoS exists in the Marvel Cinema Universe, so Kubrick definitely exists in the MCU.
As any portmanteau in a storm noted, there was a Marvel adaptation of 2001. Jack Kirby created a character for that named Mister Machine, who then was moved over to the mainstream Marvel universe as Machine Man. That character has had crossovers with numerous familiar Marvel heroes like Iron Man, The Hulk, the X-Men, Avengers, and Fantastic Four.
(1) there was any evidence of any Marvel comic books/superheroes in the film, even second- or third-order
This is harder, given that Marvel Comics had only existed as Marvel Comics for a few years (roughly June 1961) before Dr. Strangelove was released. (Timely Publications had released a title called Marvel Comics in the late 1930s with an early Human Torch and Namor, and Captain America appeared in 1941.)
I don't imagine that Marvel characters had enough mainstream attention for Kubrick to reference them in Strangelove, he may not even have been aware of their existence at that point.
posted by jzb at 4:58 AM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
I wish there was a search engine for comics, because I can promise you that there have been references to various Kubrick movies throughout the comics.
Not exactly the MCU, but connected, there's a "redrum" reference in Agents of SHIELD S05E18. AoS exists in the Marvel Cinema Universe, so Kubrick definitely exists in the MCU.
As any portmanteau in a storm noted, there was a Marvel adaptation of 2001. Jack Kirby created a character for that named Mister Machine, who then was moved over to the mainstream Marvel universe as Machine Man. That character has had crossovers with numerous familiar Marvel heroes like Iron Man, The Hulk, the X-Men, Avengers, and Fantastic Four.
(1) there was any evidence of any Marvel comic books/superheroes in the film, even second- or third-order
This is harder, given that Marvel Comics had only existed as Marvel Comics for a few years (roughly June 1961) before Dr. Strangelove was released. (Timely Publications had released a title called Marvel Comics in the late 1930s with an early Human Torch and Namor, and Captain America appeared in 1941.)
I don't imagine that Marvel characters had enough mainstream attention for Kubrick to reference them in Strangelove, he may not even have been aware of their existence at that point.
posted by jzb at 4:58 AM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
stan lee kubrick
posted by zippy at 6:07 AM on June 4, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by zippy at 6:07 AM on June 4, 2019 [12 favorites]
Jude Law -- he's Mar-Vell in Captain Marvel
Minor nit to pick - he's Yon-Rogg in Captain Marvel. Mar-Vell is played by Annette Bening.
posted by hanov3r at 8:21 AM on June 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
Minor nit to pick - he's Yon-Rogg in Captain Marvel. Mar-Vell is played by Annette Bening.
posted by hanov3r at 8:21 AM on June 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
If a Kubrick film were referenced in an MCU property then it would depend on whether the film was referenced as a film or as an actual thing that happened. If the former, then clearly the Kubrick film would be a piece of fiction in the MCU universe, which isn't (?) what you are looking for.
Likewise, if Dr. Strangelove referenced any Marvel characters (which it appears it did not) then it would matter if they were referenced as real people who actually exist or as comic book characters.
I think it's reasonable to assume that Kubrick films exist in the MCU, because the MCU is essentially our universe + superheroes, so Kubrick films exist (I'm not sure whether comic books exist in the Marvel/DC universes, although I'm sure someone has investigated that question).
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:33 AM on June 4, 2019
Likewise, if Dr. Strangelove referenced any Marvel characters (which it appears it did not) then it would matter if they were referenced as real people who actually exist or as comic book characters.
I think it's reasonable to assume that Kubrick films exist in the MCU, because the MCU is essentially our universe + superheroes, so Kubrick films exist (I'm not sure whether comic books exist in the Marvel/DC universes, although I'm sure someone has investigated that question).
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 9:33 AM on June 4, 2019
Best answer: as evidence that Kubrick movies exist in the Marvel universe (though not nec the Marvel Cinematic Universe), in Invincible Iron Man Vol 3 #8 Spider-Man says, about AI voices: "I saw 2001. No computer will ever have a man's voice again. Kubrick made sure of that. And Ultron."
posted by zippy at 12:15 PM on June 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by zippy at 12:15 PM on June 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:58 PM on June 3, 2019 [3 favorites]