Is this shirt message friendly or potentially [accidentally] snarky?

May 22, 2019 8:13 AM

I would like to sport a queer-positive tee for upcoming Pride, and also just generally to wear. I like this shirt and I like supporting HRC. But as a cis nonqueer person, I am teeny bit worried that me wearing this message might make the tone read as condescending or -- I don't know. You know? What do you think?
posted by Ink-stained wretch to Society & Culture (28 answers total)

As cis person who does not identify as queer, I would not feel comfortable wearing that shirt, and would advise cis, nonqueer friends not to wear that shirt. Using "queers" as a noun is historically a slur; the reclamation of the term is limited to those who identify as queer. Good on you for thinking about it.
posted by quadrilaterals at 8:17 AM on May 22, 2019 [25 favorites]

HRC has been heavily criticized in the past by LGBT/Queer groups for supporting Republican candidates and largely focusing on the LG and not doing diddly for the BTQueer. So while this queer person finds the message itself fairly meh and I wouldn't be bothered by it, (I don't love it though it is pandering a bit) yet more support of HRC by a cishet would make me roll my eyes heavily. Sorry.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:18 AM on May 22, 2019 [24 favorites]

I agree with your gut. Skip it. I think it's in-group humor only. I think maybe this one would be better for you. In fact, I may order that myself!

On preview: good info about HRC. I haven't paid much attention to them beyond their equality branding.
posted by amanda at 8:20 AM on May 22, 2019 [4 favorites]

Agreed with quadrilaterals. As a cis, non-queer person I not wear that shirt because that word isn't mine to wordplay with.
posted by kimberussell at 8:21 AM on May 22, 2019 [2 favorites]

for upcoming Pride

as a cis nonqueer person

Why are you celebrating Pride at all? I mean, allyship is good and we need allies, but this strikes me as strange as white folks celebrating Day of the Dead.
posted by fiercecupcake at 8:23 AM on May 22, 2019 [2 favorites]

(FWIW, as someone who is actually queer, I'd be fine with you wearing that shirt.

Don't refer to a specific person as queer if you don't know they identify with it. And don't use the word as an umbrella term. But hi, yes, I am queer, you can say "cheers" to me and to others who identify this way, that is not offensive to us.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:29 AM on May 22, 2019 [6 favorites]

Why are you celebrating Pride at all? I mean, allyship is good and we need allies, but this strikes me as strange as white folks celebrating Day of the Dead.


In many cities Pride is now a pretty big event. Most parades I know of feature groups of allies marching (e.g employee groups, PFLAG, people who work or volunteer with a represented group) and in Seattle there are entire street festivals. These events are not intended only for LGBTQ people. It is quite normal for allies to celebrate Pride.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 8:31 AM on May 22, 2019 [40 favorites]

Best answer: As a straight person, I wouldn't wear that shirt (though I'm appalled at the historical ignorance involved in the present crop of young people insisting that it's never been anything but a slur, thus disappearing, well, a huge swath of activism from the late 70s to 90s), but I have trouble thinking of a more uncomplicated form of ally support than showing up and cheering in public support at a Pride parade. (Which, if you find it weird, I'm guessing you've never been in NYC...)
posted by praemunire at 8:31 AM on May 22, 2019 [21 favorites]

Best answer: Cis queer person here, I'd be fine with the message of the shirt but suspect that my partner (bi, has not joined me in the "reclaiming queer" pool and has some trauma stirred up by being called queer) would not love it if you were his friend trying to show him allyship. And I'd probably be annoyed at having to sit there and decide whether I want to take time away from my enjoyable community Pride-fest to talk with you about the mixed reputation that HRC has in the queer community. So, all in all, I'd say pass on this one and go looking for another choice. But thanks for the effort to be supportive to our community, have a great time at Pride!
posted by Stacey at 8:32 AM on May 22, 2019 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: to answer the question:

Why are you celebrating Pride at all?


I traditionally attend with my queer partner and other assorted queer and nonqueer family members. It's a big street party here and welcoming to all.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 8:39 AM on May 22, 2019 [33 favorites]

It's not so much that I'd be offended by a straight person wearing that shirt (except for it coming from HRC, which, boo!) as I'd assume that you, too, were queer. If I were a straight cis person who wanted to wear a message shirt on this topic, I'd look for something cute which said directly "I support my trans/queer/LGBTQ friends/neighbors/colleagues", maybe even in those words. Or get a shirt that supports a queer project with a cool logo, or one that says "trans rights are human rights" or something. Or a shirt by a queer creator - if you pick something relatively well-known, plenty of folks at Pride will know who the artist is.

~~
In re straight people going to Pride - for me personally, if you're not acting weird or making a production about how you're straight (and particularly if you're attending with GLBTQIA friends) I don't really care. As long as you're not fake hitting on people or getting super drunk or hogging the best spot at something, hey, it's a big event and I'm not looking at every person I pass to see if they "look queer enough" or whatever.

I will say that I have had some bad experiences with straight people at Pride. I do not want my picture taken with you. I am not a freak show and just because I am gender non-conforming does not mean I am in costume. Click-click-clicking away with your camera at random strangers who are not wearing obvious costumes is extremely bad form. I assume you know about that stuff, but if you are around other straight people who do that or gawp or something, make them stop.
posted by Frowner at 8:42 AM on May 22, 2019 [18 favorites]

I will say that I have had some bad experiences with straight people at Pride. I do not want my picture taken with you. I am not a freak show and just because I am gender non-conforming does not mean I am in costume.

(Yeah, I didn't want to abuse the edit window on my post, but clearly there are ways a straight person can be a huge jerk at a Pride parade, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Sorry.)
posted by praemunire at 8:48 AM on May 22, 2019

Best answer: Yeah, it's a nice thought but "queer" is still too much an inside thing. If I knew you and knew your motivations I'd probably think it was nice. If you were a stranger and I saw you I guess I wouldn't know you weren't queer, so it'd still be fine. If you were an acquaintance I knew not to be queer and you were wearing the shirt, I'd feel a little eyebrowy about it. It's not a big deal, and the solidarity is appreciated, but I'd go with "no."
posted by Smearcase at 8:52 AM on May 22, 2019

Also add my strong disagreement to the idea that straight people shouldn't be at Pride. Pride is at this point, for better or worse, not hugely political and certainly not some separatist event. In NYC it's a big mess of a street party that is happily based on queerness but not a protest and not some proprietary, gated thing. Allies there are great and part of the fun and you'll never hear such cheering as when the PFLAG float breaks up the frankly kind of embarrassing run of vodka company floats. If I thought straight people weren't welcome at Pride I'd be less inclined to go. (In truth, I don't often go because it's crowded and I'm old etc.)
posted by Smearcase at 9:00 AM on May 22, 2019 [3 favorites]

Mod note: Let's please keep the focus on the specific question OP asked about this shirt, rather than broadening to a general discussion about all aspects of allies and Pride
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:09 AM on May 22, 2019 [1 favorite]

another queer person here, nthing that the shirt seems fine/meh but HRC is 👎🏼

for other, less HRC-tainted options, maybe take a look at some of autostraddle's buying guides? Here's last year's pride list; some of the options here are not appropriate for you to wear, but there are a few options that could work (or you could buy your partner a nice shirt/others might find the list useful!).
posted by dizziest at 9:17 AM on May 22, 2019 [8 favorites]

HRC is historically trans-exclusive enough that their logo is at best an eye roll from me. With that graphic - ew, what were they thinking? It feels like a very lazy, insulting attempt to paper over decades of HRC being a lobbying group for cis LG people. As a queer trans person, I don't mind the use of queer, but I mind this shirt from these jerks a whole lot.
posted by bagel at 1:37 PM on May 22, 2019 [1 favorite]

Rule of thumb: If you have serious reservations/concerns about wearing something, don’t wear it.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:53 PM on May 22, 2019 [1 favorite]

eh. I think straight people should avoid using the word “queer” except to refer specifically to people who identify that way (“so-and-so is a queer artist” or whatever). On the other hand if you wear that shirt I’d likely just assume you yourself are queer especially in a non cis- or heteronormative space like Pride, so 🤷‍♀️
posted by Gymnopedist at 5:31 PM on May 22, 2019

I (trans man) fully and completely support straight partners of queer people going to pride, which is the situation here.

This is pretty different than someone with weaker ties to the community going for entertainment.
posted by lab.beetle at 7:17 PM on May 22, 2019 [1 favorite]

As a cis-queer, I wouldn't blink seeing that shirt at a pride event. I would probably assume you're queer, though. Maybe go for one that reads clearly as allyship? Reclaimed words are hard to use unless you're in the group.
posted by greermahoney at 8:20 PM on May 22, 2019

20-odd years ago I had a "Straight But Not Narrow" button...I think that something to that effect would be more appropriate.
posted by brujita at 10:18 PM on May 22, 2019 [2 favorites]

Hi, I'm bi and sometimes self-identify as queer. I use "queer" as an umbrella adjective often.

However, I get a visceral reaction to queer/queers as a noun. To me, that still feels like a slur. It's too close to abuse I've heard. "F off, you queer"

I wouldn't wear that shirt myself. And I definitely wouldn't like seeing someone who isn't queer wearing it. It's clearly well-meaning, but it's just... uncomfortable for me.
posted by Gordafarin at 2:28 AM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]

I'm a queer person who identifies foremost with the word queer and that's how I would want you to refer to my sexual orientation, but I agree that queer as a noun vs. an adjective has a strong in-group/out-group thing going on. I would feel a lot more comfortable with a straight person saying "queer people" than "queers." And yes this is all very variable and constantly changing so it's great to ask!! :)
posted by dusty potato at 7:07 AM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]

I am a queer cis person. I don't love the idea of a person who doesn't identify as queer wearing the shirt, so I'd say don't wear it, but I wouldn't be offended or upset if you did wear it.

And also, as others have mentioned, HRC has not been inclusive in the past (I'm not sure of their current policy positions) so I personally don't support them. It's worth looking in to at the least if you're considering purchasing or supporting them.
posted by insectosaurus at 7:10 AM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]

Best answer: (Personally I don't love jokey slogans of support in general from people who are not of a given identity; it comes off a bit vulnerability-deflecting to me. If I saw a straight person with a shirt that said something direct and earnest like "Solidarity with Queer People" my heart would swell though!!)
posted by dusty potato at 7:11 AM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]

I lean a lot closer to Radical Queer groups in philosophy than the HRC, and I probably would think twice about wearing that shirt. For better or for worse, "queer" it a term that many people have reasonable disagreements about. Many LGBT people do not use "queer" as a identifier or adjective. When I use it, I take a certain amount of care to read the room and be sensitive to other people's reactions.

That's not a conversation where I feel that a cis and (I'm assuming) straight person should be a stakeholder. I don't think it's condescending so much as potentially tone-deaf to the complexities of reclaiming language, and I agree with many people above that there are probably better shirts you can use to show your support.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 7:49 AM on May 23, 2019

Another queer person here chiming in to say that the message itself is fine, but please do not support HRC - how about this Ally patch from disabled queer creator NerdieKeppie instead?
posted by Tamanna at 10:48 PM on May 23, 2019