Dating: separated with alcoholic parent. Aiming for the healthy version.
May 21, 2019 5:52 AM Subscribe
Thinking with me would be much appreciated! People who’ve been in a relationship after separation, or have had an alcoholic parent, or have tried to choose a better partner after making not great/bad choices in the past, who've made changes for the healthier in relationships and anyone who has a sharp eye for good choices!
I’ve made bad relationship choices before, where I put way more energy in and didn't keep my eyes open. Partners had under-the-surface untreated psychiatric problems that they didn’t know of or were in denial about, or simply did want a relationship at all. I’ve grown up in an abusive household, where one parent for a time had a problem with alcohol. I've lived and learned, trying to be careful.
So here's the situation: Three months ago, I met someone, in their early thirties, just separated (legally simple marriage of less than 5 years, together for more than a decade, no kids, house is only asset). He told me after a two dates that he comes from a family where the mother is an alcoholic and self-harms (she falls a lot and people have to constantly be with her, or send her to bed) from at least when he was a teenager. There's been unsuccessful mental health treatments and his youngest sibling isn't moving out because she feels obligated. This makes me, and other siblings of his, sad. He seemed to deny it somewhat (saying that it was just hard for her to find an affordable apartment), but got really sad when I expressed concern as to how his father and, well he himself as the oldest brother, are letting this situation be. He wanted to talk to his youngest sibling immediately, because he feels a lot of things are not discussed that should be. I suggested he should think about this, not rush into things, and he took that advice. I mean, it’s only my impression. I have no idea what the people involved all think and want. But my opinion is that the father has been sacrificing the needs of the siblings, enabling the mother. He is on good terms with his father, and does not seem used to being critical about this, or I don’t really know because there’s only so much we’ve been able to talk about last months.
He's moved out of the marital house now, coparenting a pet and planning to do so for years. I’m not a fan of this idea, but he listens to me, it’s still his plan, and it’s an adorable, adorable pet. He does not communicate much with his ex, who has some psychiatric issues (that he thinks he denied for a long time), she was very dominant in decision making in their relationship (in hindsight he’s shocked by the sumtotal of this), and works in mental health care. They both think she has a great career going there (I have my serious doubts). My last longterm relationship was with someone who had great humor, very intelligent, but ultimately I discovered they had huge problems that he wasn't trying to fix. I tried a lot, a lot, to my detriment, and realized I should have ended it so much sooner. He started to blaming me for his life not being the way he wanted, which is a very weak spot for me. And I blamed him for not trying. I am very aware of my sensitivity around people who externalize and blame. I don’t think that is what is happening right now, but I do think I may have to choose battles more strategically. He may be feeling overwhelmed my views.
In this current situation we really like each other, he lives a healthy life, likes his job, has been very affectionate, can let go of work in his free time and keeps a lot of social contacts. This last thing is a bit of a difference between us: he has many siblings, and his family to worry about, very active contacts with colleagues outside of work (millions of texts per day), where I haven't got direct family left and am a more introverted and, I guess thoughtful, also just like him a bit non-assertive but trying to be very aware of what some people try to get away with. I think complementary reactions or even codependency is an issue for me.
He has two best friends who are, single forever types, who he loves because they’re always there for him (I don’t know them, so I don’t know in what way). He loves his siblings. He respects differences, different opinions, I think. He asserted me his values on family life are different from his friends’, which matches what I’ve seen from him up to now, and this is important to me. I'm quite a bit older (never married, no children). When we met and after, we've talked about the age difference (not a concern for both of us), and the timing of this for him. And that I felt I was taking a leap of faith with his recent separation. He was understanding, but he also does seem to forget that talking to me a lot about his ex-wife. On the one hand I want to talk with him about his afterthoughts on this relationship and marriage and what he would want in the future, on the other hand it makes me feel a bit uneasy sometimes. But when it gets to be too much I tell him and he understands and has dialed it back before. Earlier this week I suddenly felt insecure about this, talked to him and he reassured me.
We've had an insane amount of contact last months, the enthused kind of a beginning interest. I am willing to dial that back. Which is wat I think he wants right now. He has a hard time finding a steady place to live, the market's not easy for this but he's also delaying a bit, I feel. We've talked about a lot of things, from both sides, our lives. We've had fun as well, outings together, although most of his days are filled with getting from a to b (living in a now, pet in b, work in c, parents in d, me and other sibling in e), also traveling internationally for work. I feel he lets people go too far, he's just too friendly. Lots of people are offering help, but regularly in ways where they make him dependent in some way. He notices what's happening sharply but does not take action. I feel it could go the way where I get blamed for trying to keep a boundary (f.i. people who sublet him his current place who come by unannounced and he feels obligated because they don’t let him pay the agreed upon rent and I just wanted to leave instead of stay with a whole family of strangers on a weekend day). It seems to confuse him. I am a bit annoyed he’d have me over somewhere where he knows this family feels free to drop by every weekend, and then surprise me with this, and not push those people to pay the rent, so he has to take this in some turned-around logic. Recently he said he loved the good talks and is realizing things, but needs time to process things. Since the time I've met him, other than the evenings he spent with me or in contact with me, I've not seen him have more than a couple of nights alone. He’s different from me, and he’s avoiding some things. I recognize his process, his own way of going through this, and I like him enough and trust that he will progress to wherever he needs to get.
He's mentioned at once that something I said sounded controlling. He also said things like he thinks I've already thought way more than him about things in general. He's said he is slower. He's said he thinks I'm stern (but didn't relate that to a specific instance at that time).
I want to make sure I don’t repeat myself and carefully handle my own pitfalls. My hands were itching to find him a place to stay, so he can finally have the privacy and place/time to process. He seems to escape to people and activities, but then, I also think that is not such a bad way. He likes people, and the activities help keep him grounded while his work is very challenging. I was way too much on my own after my relationship, it helped me think and process emotions but my way also kept me from at least enjoying life a bit. It cost me extra time being single and missing out on feeling better with people around, after years of being in a relationship that hadn't been good for me. I think that for me, a regret as big as not ending the relationship sooner, really. So I do see some ways he’s maybe avoiding, but also see him getting on with his life and being active in a good way. And I'm just getting to know him, of course. I don't know yet what he's really like. I want to give him time, be flexible with this (as he is with me), and to focus on me a bit more after the first enthusiasm of this. I want to try, because I think I do like him a lot, in spite of both our baggage.
So, I think my question is: am I missing loud alarms here, or is this worth giving a chance? I really want a healthy relationship from the beginning.
And what should I look out for? I’ve never dated someone who had been married before, so this is new territory. He's financially uninvolved with the ex aside from the house, the pet I would not mind in my life, they are telling everyone they are separated, he's been out of the house for almost 2 months, coming weeks they’re starting with the financial advisor on the house and finalizing the divorce.
Please don’t advise us therapy or mental health care! Good down to earth books on codependency or other subjects are welcome.
So here's the situation: Three months ago, I met someone, in their early thirties, just separated (legally simple marriage of less than 5 years, together for more than a decade, no kids, house is only asset). He told me after a two dates that he comes from a family where the mother is an alcoholic and self-harms (she falls a lot and people have to constantly be with her, or send her to bed) from at least when he was a teenager. There's been unsuccessful mental health treatments and his youngest sibling isn't moving out because she feels obligated. This makes me, and other siblings of his, sad. He seemed to deny it somewhat (saying that it was just hard for her to find an affordable apartment), but got really sad when I expressed concern as to how his father and, well he himself as the oldest brother, are letting this situation be. He wanted to talk to his youngest sibling immediately, because he feels a lot of things are not discussed that should be. I suggested he should think about this, not rush into things, and he took that advice. I mean, it’s only my impression. I have no idea what the people involved all think and want. But my opinion is that the father has been sacrificing the needs of the siblings, enabling the mother. He is on good terms with his father, and does not seem used to being critical about this, or I don’t really know because there’s only so much we’ve been able to talk about last months.
He's moved out of the marital house now, coparenting a pet and planning to do so for years. I’m not a fan of this idea, but he listens to me, it’s still his plan, and it’s an adorable, adorable pet. He does not communicate much with his ex, who has some psychiatric issues (that he thinks he denied for a long time), she was very dominant in decision making in their relationship (in hindsight he’s shocked by the sumtotal of this), and works in mental health care. They both think she has a great career going there (I have my serious doubts). My last longterm relationship was with someone who had great humor, very intelligent, but ultimately I discovered they had huge problems that he wasn't trying to fix. I tried a lot, a lot, to my detriment, and realized I should have ended it so much sooner. He started to blaming me for his life not being the way he wanted, which is a very weak spot for me. And I blamed him for not trying. I am very aware of my sensitivity around people who externalize and blame. I don’t think that is what is happening right now, but I do think I may have to choose battles more strategically. He may be feeling overwhelmed my views.
In this current situation we really like each other, he lives a healthy life, likes his job, has been very affectionate, can let go of work in his free time and keeps a lot of social contacts. This last thing is a bit of a difference between us: he has many siblings, and his family to worry about, very active contacts with colleagues outside of work (millions of texts per day), where I haven't got direct family left and am a more introverted and, I guess thoughtful, also just like him a bit non-assertive but trying to be very aware of what some people try to get away with. I think complementary reactions or even codependency is an issue for me.
He has two best friends who are, single forever types, who he loves because they’re always there for him (I don’t know them, so I don’t know in what way). He loves his siblings. He respects differences, different opinions, I think. He asserted me his values on family life are different from his friends’, which matches what I’ve seen from him up to now, and this is important to me. I'm quite a bit older (never married, no children). When we met and after, we've talked about the age difference (not a concern for both of us), and the timing of this for him. And that I felt I was taking a leap of faith with his recent separation. He was understanding, but he also does seem to forget that talking to me a lot about his ex-wife. On the one hand I want to talk with him about his afterthoughts on this relationship and marriage and what he would want in the future, on the other hand it makes me feel a bit uneasy sometimes. But when it gets to be too much I tell him and he understands and has dialed it back before. Earlier this week I suddenly felt insecure about this, talked to him and he reassured me.
We've had an insane amount of contact last months, the enthused kind of a beginning interest. I am willing to dial that back. Which is wat I think he wants right now. He has a hard time finding a steady place to live, the market's not easy for this but he's also delaying a bit, I feel. We've talked about a lot of things, from both sides, our lives. We've had fun as well, outings together, although most of his days are filled with getting from a to b (living in a now, pet in b, work in c, parents in d, me and other sibling in e), also traveling internationally for work. I feel he lets people go too far, he's just too friendly. Lots of people are offering help, but regularly in ways where they make him dependent in some way. He notices what's happening sharply but does not take action. I feel it could go the way where I get blamed for trying to keep a boundary (f.i. people who sublet him his current place who come by unannounced and he feels obligated because they don’t let him pay the agreed upon rent and I just wanted to leave instead of stay with a whole family of strangers on a weekend day). It seems to confuse him. I am a bit annoyed he’d have me over somewhere where he knows this family feels free to drop by every weekend, and then surprise me with this, and not push those people to pay the rent, so he has to take this in some turned-around logic. Recently he said he loved the good talks and is realizing things, but needs time to process things. Since the time I've met him, other than the evenings he spent with me or in contact with me, I've not seen him have more than a couple of nights alone. He’s different from me, and he’s avoiding some things. I recognize his process, his own way of going through this, and I like him enough and trust that he will progress to wherever he needs to get.
He's mentioned at once that something I said sounded controlling. He also said things like he thinks I've already thought way more than him about things in general. He's said he is slower. He's said he thinks I'm stern (but didn't relate that to a specific instance at that time).
I want to make sure I don’t repeat myself and carefully handle my own pitfalls. My hands were itching to find him a place to stay, so he can finally have the privacy and place/time to process. He seems to escape to people and activities, but then, I also think that is not such a bad way. He likes people, and the activities help keep him grounded while his work is very challenging. I was way too much on my own after my relationship, it helped me think and process emotions but my way also kept me from at least enjoying life a bit. It cost me extra time being single and missing out on feeling better with people around, after years of being in a relationship that hadn't been good for me. I think that for me, a regret as big as not ending the relationship sooner, really. So I do see some ways he’s maybe avoiding, but also see him getting on with his life and being active in a good way. And I'm just getting to know him, of course. I don't know yet what he's really like. I want to give him time, be flexible with this (as he is with me), and to focus on me a bit more after the first enthusiasm of this. I want to try, because I think I do like him a lot, in spite of both our baggage.
So, I think my question is: am I missing loud alarms here, or is this worth giving a chance? I really want a healthy relationship from the beginning.
And what should I look out for? I’ve never dated someone who had been married before, so this is new territory. He's financially uninvolved with the ex aside from the house, the pet I would not mind in my life, they are telling everyone they are separated, he's been out of the house for almost 2 months, coming weeks they’re starting with the financial advisor on the house and finalizing the divorce.
Please don’t advise us therapy or mental health care! Good down to earth books on codependency or other subjects are welcome.
Yeah, this seems really early for you to be inserting yourself into his relationships with his family, the people he's subletting from, etc. Which is different from setting your own boundaries - it's 100% reasonable for you to say "hey, I don't really want to hang out with these people in your apartment, I'm gonna head home", but not so much for you to be suggesting he work out a different rent arrangement with those people or pushing him to find a new place to live ASAP.
I wouldn't say any one thing here is a giant red flag (give or take the long-term pet co-parenting which seems like a terrible idea for everyone including the pet, but I gather it works for some people so...YMMV, I guess) but that taken as a whole, this seems like a picture of way too entwined, way too soon. Take a couple of big steps back, let the relationship breathe, and focus on whether the two of you are good for each other when you're together, not how to deal with families and living arrangements and exes and whatever else. Let those be his problems to work out on his own for a while.
posted by Stacey at 6:14 AM on May 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
I wouldn't say any one thing here is a giant red flag (give or take the long-term pet co-parenting which seems like a terrible idea for everyone including the pet, but I gather it works for some people so...YMMV, I guess) but that taken as a whole, this seems like a picture of way too entwined, way too soon. Take a couple of big steps back, let the relationship breathe, and focus on whether the two of you are good for each other when you're together, not how to deal with families and living arrangements and exes and whatever else. Let those be his problems to work out on his own for a while.
posted by Stacey at 6:14 AM on May 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
You are far too deeply invested for only knowing this person for three months. More significantly, you feel comfortable being very judgmental about aspects of his life that you know hardly anything about, because again *you barely know this guy*. If someone I had been dating for three months tried to tell me about how I was all wrong about my own family, my ex, my pet, and my friends, and made pretty harsh judgments about all these things, assuming I was wrong, that would raise a red flag for me about you.
More than musing about whether this person is right for you, I would think deeply about why you’re so comfortable making such snap judgments about other people’s lives in this way. It’s not your place to do this for someone you’ve only known for three months and I don’t think you should so easily assume that you’re right. Focus on your own issues.
posted by sallybrown at 6:38 AM on May 21, 2019 [23 favorites]
More than musing about whether this person is right for you, I would think deeply about why you’re so comfortable making such snap judgments about other people’s lives in this way. It’s not your place to do this for someone you’ve only known for three months and I don’t think you should so easily assume that you’re right. Focus on your own issues.
posted by sallybrown at 6:38 AM on May 21, 2019 [23 favorites]
To be completely honest, I think the loud alarms you might be missing are coming from you. This is a lot of analyzing, picking apart and scrutinizing every single difference your partner has from you. He's made it to adulthood just fine, and seems to be relatively thriving, so whatever he's doing is working for him. Let him keep being him, especially if that's the person you like being with. Turn your attention inwards, and decide if you are happy with the relationship. If you are not, it is OK to end things.
He's also telling you directly to step off and give him more space, and take things slower. I'd listen to him. I am also recently separated, have an alcoholic parent, and am in my first post-huz committed relationship. I have changed a lot in my life in the last year, and still feel like I'm adjusting to what my life is now. I would not take too kindly to my boyfriend telling me all of the things that he disagrees with in how I interact with friends and family. That is not being supportive.
posted by Fig at 7:09 AM on May 21, 2019 [24 favorites]
He's also telling you directly to step off and give him more space, and take things slower. I'd listen to him. I am also recently separated, have an alcoholic parent, and am in my first post-huz committed relationship. I have changed a lot in my life in the last year, and still feel like I'm adjusting to what my life is now. I would not take too kindly to my boyfriend telling me all of the things that he disagrees with in how I interact with friends and family. That is not being supportive.
posted by Fig at 7:09 AM on May 21, 2019 [24 favorites]
To be completely honest, I think the loud alarms you might be missing are coming from you.
I was thinking the same thing. The classic Codependent No More was really life changing for me. It was absolutely astonishing how much time I freed up when I focused on myself instead of other people. I had time for hobbies! I learned how to make wirework jewelry! I seriously could have made a pair of earrings in just the time it took me to read this question.
You can absolutely have a healthy relationship, either with this guy or the next one, but the place to start is with yourself.
posted by selfmedicating at 7:58 AM on May 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
I was thinking the same thing. The classic Codependent No More was really life changing for me. It was absolutely astonishing how much time I freed up when I focused on myself instead of other people. I had time for hobbies! I learned how to make wirework jewelry! I seriously could have made a pair of earrings in just the time it took me to read this question.
You can absolutely have a healthy relationship, either with this guy or the next one, but the place to start is with yourself.
posted by selfmedicating at 7:58 AM on May 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
OMG please break up.
So, I think my question is: am I missing loud alarms here, or is this worth giving a chance? I really want a healthy relationship from the beginning.
Yes, you are missing LOUDNOISES and no, this is not worth giving a chance in any single way, shape or form.
Moving forward (and yes please, move forward here), if you are ever in the early days of dating and you think their decisions are faulty and they would benefit from your input in figuring their life out, just walk away. It's not you at all; it's that this person lives in a way that you don't like, that they're full of issues and problems and can't navigate any of them in a way you think is reasonable. Nothing more than that.
Please break up with this guy and move on. This is a spectacularly bad fit.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 8:09 AM on May 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
So, I think my question is: am I missing loud alarms here, or is this worth giving a chance? I really want a healthy relationship from the beginning.
Yes, you are missing LOUDNOISES and no, this is not worth giving a chance in any single way, shape or form.
Moving forward (and yes please, move forward here), if you are ever in the early days of dating and you think their decisions are faulty and they would benefit from your input in figuring their life out, just walk away. It's not you at all; it's that this person lives in a way that you don't like, that they're full of issues and problems and can't navigate any of them in a way you think is reasonable. Nothing more than that.
Please break up with this guy and move on. This is a spectacularly bad fit.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 8:09 AM on May 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
There's a lot here, and I think it's very astute of you to be looking out for resources on codependency. I found Codependent No More by Melody Beattie to be a very useful book when I was learning to untangle my own codependent tendencies.
Three months is not much time at all. In my own experience, the level and type of involvement you describe sounds like a lot. I also don't really see much about you in this question. Are you spending time doing things that you used to like to do on your own? Having individual hobbies has always been a very useful thing for me in relationships. I find that it is necessary for me to cultivate myself outside of the relationship, throughout any romantic relationship I'm in.
I know you said no therapy suggestions "for us" so I'm not sure if recommending individual therapy is out of bounds. As someone who experienced similar issues, they were coming from inside my own house, so couples therapy wouldn't be the right venue for that anyhow. Individual therapy would be a more useful path.
Take care.
posted by sockermom at 8:09 AM on May 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
Three months is not much time at all. In my own experience, the level and type of involvement you describe sounds like a lot. I also don't really see much about you in this question. Are you spending time doing things that you used to like to do on your own? Having individual hobbies has always been a very useful thing for me in relationships. I find that it is necessary for me to cultivate myself outside of the relationship, throughout any romantic relationship I'm in.
I know you said no therapy suggestions "for us" so I'm not sure if recommending individual therapy is out of bounds. As someone who experienced similar issues, they were coming from inside my own house, so couples therapy wouldn't be the right venue for that anyhow. Individual therapy would be a more useful path.
Take care.
posted by sockermom at 8:09 AM on May 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
does not seem used to being critical about this
yeah I would certainly hope he's not used to being highly critical about his closest relatives' most personal and private situations to or with someone he's known and been dating for only three months.
it is possible for someone to tell you about their family problems in the course of getting to know you without implicitly soliciting your vocal judgment of them, and I think you might consider approaching things as if this is what he's doing.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:48 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
yeah I would certainly hope he's not used to being highly critical about his closest relatives' most personal and private situations to or with someone he's known and been dating for only three months.
it is possible for someone to tell you about their family problems in the course of getting to know you without implicitly soliciting your vocal judgment of them, and I think you might consider approaching things as if this is what he's doing.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:48 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
am I missing loud alarms here
Yes.
Most of these things wouldn't be dealbreakers in isolation but I think the fact that you spilled them all out here suggests that you can see the outlines of how this is likely to crash and burn.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:12 AM on May 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yes.
Most of these things wouldn't be dealbreakers in isolation but I think the fact that you spilled them all out here suggests that you can see the outlines of how this is likely to crash and burn.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:12 AM on May 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
This is a lot to go through at the three month mark. That itself is a red flag.
He's going through a divorce. With that comes a lot of introspection and reinvention. He needs time and space for that, nevermind trying to cultivate a new relationship. If you can give him that space, great. If not, and I'm not sure how realistic it is to dial it back, this is already pretty heavy and likely weighing down the work/fun balance.
What are you getting out of this? That's not clear to me.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:14 AM on May 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
He's going through a divorce. With that comes a lot of introspection and reinvention. He needs time and space for that, nevermind trying to cultivate a new relationship. If you can give him that space, great. If not, and I'm not sure how realistic it is to dial it back, this is already pretty heavy and likely weighing down the work/fun balance.
What are you getting out of this? That's not clear to me.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:14 AM on May 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone, I'm listening.
Maybe I'm repeating things here but the details he tells me just shake me so much. I think I sound judgmental (or inserting myself etc) maybe because I feel like I can't count on him.
He's told me about his ex jumping in broken glass at the beginning of his relationship, throwing things at his head causing him to bleed more recently, breaking his things on purpose and threatening. And he never talked to anyone about this ever before but me, he says. Expenditures of the wedding, choice of the house, she wanted him to change his (good) job to earn more, and many more things. This is what he is talking about, he seems to be realizing this mostly now, or more clearly now.
He's told me as a side remark that the parent goes out to dinner with him, leaving the younger (albeit adult) sibling with the alcoholic parent who self-harms violently. And he's also told me before that this isn't safe. I'm not sure I even said something. If anything, I feel I don't say enough (although I know it's not my responsibility, but I would be less of myself to smile and ignore these things as if they are ok).
This just sounds all so horrible to me. Maybe because he doesn't seem to take position in these things or he's not making me feel that he's got a sane perspective. He seemed to only realize that his younger sibling doesn't dare to move out, when I just thought out loud to him.
He eats, sleeps, works, dates, does sports, sees acquaintances.
The friends he says are always there for him, he hasn't seen last 3 months, since before the separation. I've asked him if he hasn't missed them in this period. I don't think I'm simply telling him what is all wrong with how he does things in life.
I'm trying to care in a healthy way, but I don't feel like he spares me enough. And I feel like it's too much.
posted by Litehouse at 9:34 AM on May 21, 2019
Maybe I'm repeating things here but the details he tells me just shake me so much. I think I sound judgmental (or inserting myself etc) maybe because I feel like I can't count on him.
He's told me about his ex jumping in broken glass at the beginning of his relationship, throwing things at his head causing him to bleed more recently, breaking his things on purpose and threatening. And he never talked to anyone about this ever before but me, he says. Expenditures of the wedding, choice of the house, she wanted him to change his (good) job to earn more, and many more things. This is what he is talking about, he seems to be realizing this mostly now, or more clearly now.
He's told me as a side remark that the parent goes out to dinner with him, leaving the younger (albeit adult) sibling with the alcoholic parent who self-harms violently. And he's also told me before that this isn't safe. I'm not sure I even said something. If anything, I feel I don't say enough (although I know it's not my responsibility, but I would be less of myself to smile and ignore these things as if they are ok).
This just sounds all so horrible to me. Maybe because he doesn't seem to take position in these things or he's not making me feel that he's got a sane perspective. He seemed to only realize that his younger sibling doesn't dare to move out, when I just thought out loud to him.
He eats, sleeps, works, dates, does sports, sees acquaintances.
The friends he says are always there for him, he hasn't seen last 3 months, since before the separation. I've asked him if he hasn't missed them in this period. I don't think I'm simply telling him what is all wrong with how he does things in life.
I'm trying to care in a healthy way, but I don't feel like he spares me enough. And I feel like it's too much.
posted by Litehouse at 9:34 AM on May 21, 2019
I wonder if maybe you are just not compatible? There are a list of very sad/difficult life events he’s given you about himself, and you’re (understandably) focused on those because they are shocking or upsetting. But there’s also the way he chooses or prefers to deal with those things and his life in general. It’s his life, so it’s his choice. And you’re not just discussing life events with him, you also seem to be weighing in on how he’s dealing with those issues. This might be what he meant when he said it felt controlling. When you have a very long-standing and deep relationship with someone you can try to push them more on that, but a relationship of only three months is not enough, imo.
Like other comments mentioned, all this thinking about him—how much time do you spend thinking about yourself and your own life issues, or even just relaxing, doing hobbies, getting involved in stuff as an individual person? There is hardly anything in the question about you, and what there is comes after you’ve told us all about him, his issues, his fears, your opinion of his issues, etc.
posted by sallybrown at 9:51 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
Like other comments mentioned, all this thinking about him—how much time do you spend thinking about yourself and your own life issues, or even just relaxing, doing hobbies, getting involved in stuff as an individual person? There is hardly anything in the question about you, and what there is comes after you’ve told us all about him, his issues, his fears, your opinion of his issues, etc.
posted by sallybrown at 9:51 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
It sounds like he has had a heinous family life and is still in the thick of dealing with a parent with a debilitating addiction problem. This probably made him more likely to tolerate an abusive spouse because his family's way of dealing with these kinds of problems is to enable the sick person no matter what and just put up with the chaos. Through it all, he's managed to carve out a reasonably okay life for himself.
You've had problems of your own and they have made you lowkey suspicious of other people's motivations and highly sensitive to people being used or roped into codependent relationships. He sounds like a great guy but you should know right now that he will probably never, ever drop his family or his mother for any reason. They have decided as a family to take care of her and manage the chaos as best they can until she dies. If you're not ok with this, you should break up.
posted by cakelite at 10:02 AM on May 21, 2019
You've had problems of your own and they have made you lowkey suspicious of other people's motivations and highly sensitive to people being used or roped into codependent relationships. He sounds like a great guy but you should know right now that he will probably never, ever drop his family or his mother for any reason. They have decided as a family to take care of her and manage the chaos as best they can until she dies. If you're not ok with this, you should break up.
posted by cakelite at 10:02 AM on May 21, 2019
This just sounds all so horrible to me.
That's because it IS horrible. This person does not seem well, and you have not been dating long at all. I'm concerned that you're digging in more deeply and getting further sucked into this cluster of dysfunction.
Your life does not have to be clusters of dysfunction that you choose to join. You can have a completely lovely life by choosing to be with people who aren't controlling and who don't have this much horrible shit going on.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 10:02 AM on May 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
That's because it IS horrible. This person does not seem well, and you have not been dating long at all. I'm concerned that you're digging in more deeply and getting further sucked into this cluster of dysfunction.
Your life does not have to be clusters of dysfunction that you choose to join. You can have a completely lovely life by choosing to be with people who aren't controlling and who don't have this much horrible shit going on.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 10:02 AM on May 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
This just sounds all so horrible to me.
It is.
So why are you willing to make his problems into your problems?
Being caring and helpful are noble traits, and you are a good person for having them. But your self-preservation needs to come before all that. This is all too much, and you are not his therapist.
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:11 AM on May 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
It is.
So why are you willing to make his problems into your problems?
Being caring and helpful are noble traits, and you are a good person for having them. But your self-preservation needs to come before all that. This is all too much, and you are not his therapist.
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:11 AM on May 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
If he is describing multiple scenarios with his ex, his family, and his friends that all sound horrible and abusive and dysfunctional to you (and they sound that way to me!), and he:
-doesn't seem to notice that it's terrible until you point it out
-doesn't know what to do about it
-is not clearly invested in making different, healthier choices of his own volition (not because you suggested it)
then you need to move rapidly away from a relationship with this person and his whole dysfunctional thing and spend some time on your own, at the very least reading some of the books suggested above, and I would also strongly recommend individual therapy. Putting all of your emotional and mental energy into managing this complicated, evolving disaster is going to drain all your resources completely, probably have very marginal positive effects (if any), probably frustrate and annoy his family and him, and maybe, possibly, get intermittent assurances that he "doesn't know what [he'd] do without you" just frequently enough that you don't quite pack your bags and leave.
This is not going to make you happy, and it's not going to be a healthy relationship. There's too much dysfunction, and it doesn't sound like anyone really even recognizes that. There's no way to fix dysfunction that's not even fully acknowledged. It's possible, if he really takes some time to reevaluate his choices in the wake of his separation and divorce, that he could become someone who is capable of being a healthy partner-- but he's going to need to do a lot of work on his own to get there. You also probably need some work to become someone capable of being a healthy partner, especially becoming someone who establishes and enforces healthy boundaries. Start working on healthy boundaries by saying "this situation is complex and demanding and messy, and I do not want or need to step back into a quagmire of needy dysfunction to feel needed and valued by a partner" and go forth and enjoy your life without picking up a huge pile of someone else's mess.
posted by Kpele at 10:18 AM on May 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
-doesn't seem to notice that it's terrible until you point it out
-doesn't know what to do about it
-is not clearly invested in making different, healthier choices of his own volition (not because you suggested it)
then you need to move rapidly away from a relationship with this person and his whole dysfunctional thing and spend some time on your own, at the very least reading some of the books suggested above, and I would also strongly recommend individual therapy. Putting all of your emotional and mental energy into managing this complicated, evolving disaster is going to drain all your resources completely, probably have very marginal positive effects (if any), probably frustrate and annoy his family and him, and maybe, possibly, get intermittent assurances that he "doesn't know what [he'd] do without you" just frequently enough that you don't quite pack your bags and leave.
This is not going to make you happy, and it's not going to be a healthy relationship. There's too much dysfunction, and it doesn't sound like anyone really even recognizes that. There's no way to fix dysfunction that's not even fully acknowledged. It's possible, if he really takes some time to reevaluate his choices in the wake of his separation and divorce, that he could become someone who is capable of being a healthy partner-- but he's going to need to do a lot of work on his own to get there. You also probably need some work to become someone capable of being a healthy partner, especially becoming someone who establishes and enforces healthy boundaries. Start working on healthy boundaries by saying "this situation is complex and demanding and messy, and I do not want or need to step back into a quagmire of needy dysfunction to feel needed and valued by a partner" and go forth and enjoy your life without picking up a huge pile of someone else's mess.
posted by Kpele at 10:18 AM on May 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
Before I discovered Al-Anon, the fellowship for friends and family members of alcoholics, I was attracted to drama without realising it. I had grown up in a lot of chaos and drama and while I hated it, I often found myself involved in it or involved with people who had lots of drama in their lives. I was also super judgmental about other people and their lives. I could tell that I was growing when I broke up after a few months with a really nice man who was delightful in lots of ways. He also had a horrible life, which he did not deserve, for reasons that in no way appeared to be his fault.
Here's the thing: It wasn't my fault, either. And I knew that I would spend all of my time worrying about him and his well-being. He was healthy enough that he was not asking me for that kind of emotional support but I was anxiety prone and basically unable to stop worrying about him. So I walked away.
Al-Anon teaches us to focus on ourselves and our own needs. I don't know what you should do, but I agree with others that you seem to be spending a lot of time thinking about what this guy needs or should have or shouldn't have and I didn't read hardly anything about what you want, about what you need, about what you enjoy, about what you think is fun, etc. This guy's situation sounds highly dramatic. At the moment, you seem to be his only support. What's up with that? Why isn't he seeing his friends? More importantly, where's your support? What are you doing to take care of yourself, and what, if anything, is he offering you?
posted by Bella Donna at 10:22 AM on May 21, 2019 [10 favorites]
Here's the thing: It wasn't my fault, either. And I knew that I would spend all of my time worrying about him and his well-being. He was healthy enough that he was not asking me for that kind of emotional support but I was anxiety prone and basically unable to stop worrying about him. So I walked away.
Al-Anon teaches us to focus on ourselves and our own needs. I don't know what you should do, but I agree with others that you seem to be spending a lot of time thinking about what this guy needs or should have or shouldn't have and I didn't read hardly anything about what you want, about what you need, about what you enjoy, about what you think is fun, etc. This guy's situation sounds highly dramatic. At the moment, you seem to be his only support. What's up with that? Why isn't he seeing his friends? More importantly, where's your support? What are you doing to take care of yourself, and what, if anything, is he offering you?
posted by Bella Donna at 10:22 AM on May 21, 2019 [10 favorites]
It is horrible! He's clearly coming from a rough place in life! You can be sympathetic and curious about that, you don't have to just nod and smile and pretend everything's fine. But also, none of this is yours to fix or correct at this point in time. You barely know the guy. Your job right now is to figure out if you're having fun together and if you want to get to know him more and get more involved in his life at some point, a good way down the road. You can be kind without becoming enmeshed, and if you can't, that's something that it would be good and healthy for you to work on whether or not you stay in this relationship.
If you were my friend I'd suggest this is too much drama and work too early. But if you want to give it a chance, then okay - but dial way, way back, for your sake and his. You are allowed to say, out loud, that you can't be his primary/main source of support. You are allowed to say that spending this much time dwelling on the bad stuff isn't good for your emotional health, and you want to plan something fun to do together to take both your minds off it. You are allowed to not think about any of this at all for a few days - plan some fun stuff with your friends, work on your own projects, let this guy slide down a notch or two in your priority list and see how that feels to you.
posted by Stacey at 10:54 AM on May 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
If you were my friend I'd suggest this is too much drama and work too early. But if you want to give it a chance, then okay - but dial way, way back, for your sake and his. You are allowed to say, out loud, that you can't be his primary/main source of support. You are allowed to say that spending this much time dwelling on the bad stuff isn't good for your emotional health, and you want to plan something fun to do together to take both your minds off it. You are allowed to not think about any of this at all for a few days - plan some fun stuff with your friends, work on your own projects, let this guy slide down a notch or two in your priority list and see how that feels to you.
posted by Stacey at 10:54 AM on May 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks again, everyone, I'm reading all everything thoroughly.
I have a question, it might be a dumb one, but I just don't see where I am judgmental exactly. My native language isn't English but that's probably not the thing here. Being judgmental is an important issue that I may be missing here, like a blind spot, thinking from my own viewpoint. It would be fitting with the controlling need of someone with codependent behavior. So I understand it rationally but don't see where I go wrong, if I do.
I just strongly oppose leaving madness to influence things freely and I'm looking for a partner who doesn't want/live that either. Because I do feel that children or other bystanders who do not choose to be in the situation, are a priority to protect. But I don't really mean to impose that on anyone else who doesn't agree. I just try to keep it to me and my relationships. If he would have said that he struggled with it, or tried to help his siblings, or struggled with his ex's behavior, I wouldn't have felt so alarmed. I think. But I guess that doesn't mean that I didn't express that in a judgmental way...
Anyway, if anyone could help me see it, I'd be very grateful.
btw Stacey, that's helpful: kind without becoming enmeshed. I haven't met the family or friends . I wouldn't want to "do" anything. But I do feel emotionally full of this, if that makes sense. I'm kind of scared he's not making healthy decisions, so that's not good.
posted by Litehouse at 11:19 AM on May 21, 2019
I have a question, it might be a dumb one, but I just don't see where I am judgmental exactly. My native language isn't English but that's probably not the thing here. Being judgmental is an important issue that I may be missing here, like a blind spot, thinking from my own viewpoint. It would be fitting with the controlling need of someone with codependent behavior. So I understand it rationally but don't see where I go wrong, if I do.
I just strongly oppose leaving madness to influence things freely and I'm looking for a partner who doesn't want/live that either. Because I do feel that children or other bystanders who do not choose to be in the situation, are a priority to protect. But I don't really mean to impose that on anyone else who doesn't agree. I just try to keep it to me and my relationships. If he would have said that he struggled with it, or tried to help his siblings, or struggled with his ex's behavior, I wouldn't have felt so alarmed. I think. But I guess that doesn't mean that I didn't express that in a judgmental way...
Anyway, if anyone could help me see it, I'd be very grateful.
btw Stacey, that's helpful: kind without becoming enmeshed. I haven't met the family or friends . I wouldn't want to "do" anything. But I do feel emotionally full of this, if that makes sense. I'm kind of scared he's not making healthy decisions, so that's not good.
posted by Litehouse at 11:19 AM on May 21, 2019
Because I do feel that children or other bystanders who do not choose to be in the situation, are a priority to protect.
I want to address this part of what you've said. Let's separate out children because I don't see any children in your scenario. I do agree that children deserve protecting, because they don't choose to be in a situation. But all of the people you've mentioned here are grown people. They all get to make their own choices. Even his adult sibling who is being left with their self-harming alcoholic parent could just say nope, not staying here and leave. That is where I think he's reading "controlling."
You've commented on his friends, his ex-wife, the people he sublets from, his family. Three months in, I don't think you really get to weigh in what the people in his life do or how he deals with them. This is who he is, and if you find it so troublesome, it's not too late to get out.
posted by lyssabee at 11:32 AM on May 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
I want to address this part of what you've said. Let's separate out children because I don't see any children in your scenario. I do agree that children deserve protecting, because they don't choose to be in a situation. But all of the people you've mentioned here are grown people. They all get to make their own choices. Even his adult sibling who is being left with their self-harming alcoholic parent could just say nope, not staying here and leave. That is where I think he's reading "controlling."
You've commented on his friends, his ex-wife, the people he sublets from, his family. Three months in, I don't think you really get to weigh in what the people in his life do or how he deals with them. This is who he is, and if you find it so troublesome, it's not too late to get out.
posted by lyssabee at 11:32 AM on May 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
If you're "looking for a partner who doesn't want/live" in a constant swirl of pending disaster and melodrama and enmeshment with dysfunctional people, that is a good and achievable and healthy boundary to set and maintain! And if that is the kind of partner and life you want, you cannot achieve that with this guy. It is incredibly difficult (and often just not possible) to go from this kind of chaos to a stable, calm, reasonably healthy life without major changes, and, usually, cutting some of those dysfunctional people out of your life. And at this point he's not even sure that his situation is that bad! He's not sure anything needs to change, except for maybe finding his own place! There is no realistic way for you to do all/most of the work to deal with this alone (and even if you could it would almost certainly lead to intense resentment in one or both of you), and he is not vocally and enthusiastically up for doing that work with you, even though most of this stuff is his friends/family/ex. It is okay to walk away from this.
posted by Kpele at 11:40 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Kpele at 11:40 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
Pulling back to a high-level view of the main question:
People who’ve [...] made changes for the healthier in relationships and anyone who has a sharp eye for good choices! I’ve made bad relationship choices before, where I put way more energy in and didn't keep my eyes open.
You're coming from a place of looking at your relationship history and regretting some choices you've made. You're looking to take a new approach and try to find healthier relationship patterns.
As a pretty basic guideline, if there's something about a person (or their life!) that is alarming to you, this means it's not a healthy situation. To find a healthy relationship, look for people and situations that do not cause you alarm.
Someone could be a really great person, fun to be with, great chemistry. But if something about their life is causing you alarm and stress to think about, that is a huge signal that this is not going to develop into a healthy relationship. Think of this as a general rule that you can carry forward and apply to all situations, including friendships, job searches, volunteer opportunities, and so on.
posted by umber vowel at 11:42 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
People who’ve [...] made changes for the healthier in relationships and anyone who has a sharp eye for good choices! I’ve made bad relationship choices before, where I put way more energy in and didn't keep my eyes open.
You're coming from a place of looking at your relationship history and regretting some choices you've made. You're looking to take a new approach and try to find healthier relationship patterns.
As a pretty basic guideline, if there's something about a person (or their life!) that is alarming to you, this means it's not a healthy situation. To find a healthy relationship, look for people and situations that do not cause you alarm.
Someone could be a really great person, fun to be with, great chemistry. But if something about their life is causing you alarm and stress to think about, that is a huge signal that this is not going to develop into a healthy relationship. Think of this as a general rule that you can carry forward and apply to all situations, including friendships, job searches, volunteer opportunities, and so on.
posted by umber vowel at 11:42 AM on May 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
You want to look at a potential partner's life and say "Ah yes, this seems comfortable and a nice fit."
You don't want to say "Oh my god, how terrible things are. I hope I can help this person." You also don't want to say "This could be really great if we can fix this one major thing, and probably also these other things."
posted by umber vowel at 11:50 AM on May 21, 2019 [11 favorites]
You don't want to say "Oh my god, how terrible things are. I hope I can help this person." You also don't want to say "This could be really great if we can fix this one major thing, and probably also these other things."
posted by umber vowel at 11:50 AM on May 21, 2019 [11 favorites]
1. Realizing you've been unhealthy, and have had unhealthy relationships with unhealthy people
2. Deciding you want to be healthy and have healthy relationships instead
3&4. Walking away from unhealthy people and relationships and Walking into healthy relationships with healthy people
If 3&4 are being replaced with Trying to fix unhealthy people and unhealthy relationships into being healthy, then a. It's not going to work, b. You're going to end up right back at 1. and c. You have codependency issues you need to work on before you can get to 3&4
Also d. You can't have 3&4 with someone else who's still working on 1.
At 3 months in, you should be still be in the elated/ excited/ having fun/ can't believe how awesome this person and their life is/ etc. stage of dating. At 3 months in, all these issues are telling you exactly how this is going to play out and go down. Listen to them.
posted by OnefortheLast at 11:55 AM on May 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
2. Deciding you want to be healthy and have healthy relationships instead
3&4. Walking away from unhealthy people and relationships and Walking into healthy relationships with healthy people
If 3&4 are being replaced with Trying to fix unhealthy people and unhealthy relationships into being healthy, then a. It's not going to work, b. You're going to end up right back at 1. and c. You have codependency issues you need to work on before you can get to 3&4
Also d. You can't have 3&4 with someone else who's still working on 1.
At 3 months in, you should be still be in the elated/ excited/ having fun/ can't believe how awesome this person and their life is/ etc. stage of dating. At 3 months in, all these issues are telling you exactly how this is going to play out and go down. Listen to them.
posted by OnefortheLast at 11:55 AM on May 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
If you want to sum it up another way:
A person with codependency tendencies dating a person with boundary issues, is a disaster waiting to happen.
You can't become his boundaries with other people so he can develop independency and a sense of self without becoming unhealthily enmeshed, dominating and controlling.
You've written this all out so very clearly for yourself, but right now you're focusing on the wrong parts. And I know how that is, when you so badly want something good to happen with someone, and all you seem to keep finding is different versions of the same old shit you've been dealing with your whole life, and you think maybe this time it will be different because it looks slightly different, and you really want it to be different, even though it's feeling like more of the same. But you do have experience on your side; you already know that you can't fix other people or their lives. Imagine for once you meet a man where you're like, "wow, look how this guy handles his own life and relationships with others, I totally admire and respect that. Is there red flags waving fevertly in his life that I feel like I have to take on and down? Nope, he's got it covered. Hmm now there's nothing for me to DO but enjoy my time with him." Sounds great right? Well you can't find that man if you're tied up and busy obsessing over trying to play unsuccessful therapist and life coach with this guy.
posted by OnefortheLast at 12:58 PM on May 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
A person with codependency tendencies dating a person with boundary issues, is a disaster waiting to happen.
You can't become his boundaries with other people so he can develop independency and a sense of self without becoming unhealthily enmeshed, dominating and controlling.
You've written this all out so very clearly for yourself, but right now you're focusing on the wrong parts. And I know how that is, when you so badly want something good to happen with someone, and all you seem to keep finding is different versions of the same old shit you've been dealing with your whole life, and you think maybe this time it will be different because it looks slightly different, and you really want it to be different, even though it's feeling like more of the same. But you do have experience on your side; you already know that you can't fix other people or their lives. Imagine for once you meet a man where you're like, "wow, look how this guy handles his own life and relationships with others, I totally admire and respect that. Is there red flags waving fevertly in his life that I feel like I have to take on and down? Nope, he's got it covered. Hmm now there's nothing for me to DO but enjoy my time with him." Sounds great right? Well you can't find that man if you're tied up and busy obsessing over trying to play unsuccessful therapist and life coach with this guy.
posted by OnefortheLast at 12:58 PM on May 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
When I was doing a lot of dating in my early to mid-forties, it was typically with divorced men. I took everything they said about their exes with a grain of salt. There are two sides to every story and it's good to stay out of stories where yours is not one of those sides. I also didn't encourage conversations about their former partners or marriages. Not my business.
I've been with my partner for more than nine years now and we almost never talk about his ex. No need to. He doesn't like her and doesn't want to talk about her. It's been that way since the beginning of our relationship. He had been divorced for several years when we met and he was ready and looking for a serious relationship. I think that timing matters a lot in these situations.
You're asking about red flags in a very new relationship with someone who is only recently separated. Just slow down, take some time to get to know him, have fun, and when you're feeling the itch to offer an opinion - don't. Your itch to offer the opinion is the red flag here. You spent a long question sharing all the things that are wrong with this guy, his family, his marriage, his pet arrangements, his living situation. How did you even have time to notice all that if you've been having any fun with him?
posted by MissPitts at 1:06 PM on May 21, 2019
I've been with my partner for more than nine years now and we almost never talk about his ex. No need to. He doesn't like her and doesn't want to talk about her. It's been that way since the beginning of our relationship. He had been divorced for several years when we met and he was ready and looking for a serious relationship. I think that timing matters a lot in these situations.
You're asking about red flags in a very new relationship with someone who is only recently separated. Just slow down, take some time to get to know him, have fun, and when you're feeling the itch to offer an opinion - don't. Your itch to offer the opinion is the red flag here. You spent a long question sharing all the things that are wrong with this guy, his family, his marriage, his pet arrangements, his living situation. How did you even have time to notice all that if you've been having any fun with him?
posted by MissPitts at 1:06 PM on May 21, 2019
A lot of men who are divorcing tend to use the women they date as de facto therapists. It sounds like maybe that's a bit of what's going on... and that you are playing into this a bit? It sounds like you are collecting all of this information about his life -- that I'm guessing he is sharing quite willingly -- to try to help you decide if you want to continue to be involved with him but also because you want to influence what he does. You also want him to make different choices so he can be more like a man you want to date.
From what I'm gathering, there's an extensive list of things you think he is doing wrong or could be doing better:
Dealing differently with his mother and father
Spending more time with friends
Spending more time alone (like you?)
Not co-parenting his dog
Collecting rent more aggressively
Being too friendly and too dependent and letting people take advantage of him
Not letting folks pop by on the weekend when you are there
Talking too much about his ex
Not acting quickly enough
Not being more like you
At three months in, you should both be thinking each other is really quite amazing and having loads of fun together. It seems like you want to fix him. He's a guy who says his ex was domineering and you are controlling. If it's true that she was overly dominant, then he seems to be drawn to the same things in you. If it's not true, then it's a narrative he's set up, where's the victim of an overly domineering ex-wife and a controlling girlfriend.
I would be really worried if I felt like I was giving someone this much advice this early in a relationship. It's not your job to take care of him. I think you are showing some pretty serious red flags, too.
I may have to choose battles more strategically.
I don't think it's a good sign that, at three months in, you are thinking in terms of battles. And it seems like the battles have to do with choices he is making in his own life, not how he is treating you. You should presume that who he is now is who he will be.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:23 PM on May 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
From what I'm gathering, there's an extensive list of things you think he is doing wrong or could be doing better:
Dealing differently with his mother and father
Spending more time with friends
Spending more time alone (like you?)
Not co-parenting his dog
Collecting rent more aggressively
Being too friendly and too dependent and letting people take advantage of him
Not letting folks pop by on the weekend when you are there
Talking too much about his ex
Not acting quickly enough
Not being more like you
At three months in, you should both be thinking each other is really quite amazing and having loads of fun together. It seems like you want to fix him. He's a guy who says his ex was domineering and you are controlling. If it's true that she was overly dominant, then he seems to be drawn to the same things in you. If it's not true, then it's a narrative he's set up, where's the victim of an overly domineering ex-wife and a controlling girlfriend.
I would be really worried if I felt like I was giving someone this much advice this early in a relationship. It's not your job to take care of him. I think you are showing some pretty serious red flags, too.
I may have to choose battles more strategically.
I don't think it's a good sign that, at three months in, you are thinking in terms of battles. And it seems like the battles have to do with choices he is making in his own life, not how he is treating you. You should presume that who he is now is who he will be.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:23 PM on May 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
Last thing i want to say is, being someone who's lived dysfunction and abuse all or most of their lives, moving away from that kind of life and people and actually making better choices and living a healthier life IS FUCKING HARD HARD WORK, my friend.
One thing I recently learned in therapy is that you absolutely can not listen to people who are going to try and guilt or shame you for being judegemental.
Being able to, maybe for the first time in your life even, develop a sense of right and wrong, good and bad, healthy and unhealthy, and maintain those standards and boundaries for yourself, and be able to assess any situation and make a sound judgement call in the right direction, regardless of what anyone else says or tells you otherwise, and learning to listen to your own intuition again, IS A FUCKING HARD HARD EARNED LIFE SKILL, not a character flaw.
It looks like you're there right now. Youve learned to identify it. The next step forward is gathering the courage to act on it and walk away. Continuing to engage in it is a step backwards. If you keep doing this, it gets easier and easier and becomes second nature. Pretty soon dysfunctional, toxic, abusive, disordered people won't even register on your radar.
You wanted a healthy relationship, you're half way there, commit yourself to keep going and you will get there, I promise.
posted by OnefortheLast at 8:24 PM on May 21, 2019 [10 favorites]
One thing I recently learned in therapy is that you absolutely can not listen to people who are going to try and guilt or shame you for being judegemental.
Being able to, maybe for the first time in your life even, develop a sense of right and wrong, good and bad, healthy and unhealthy, and maintain those standards and boundaries for yourself, and be able to assess any situation and make a sound judgement call in the right direction, regardless of what anyone else says or tells you otherwise, and learning to listen to your own intuition again, IS A FUCKING HARD HARD EARNED LIFE SKILL, not a character flaw.
It looks like you're there right now. Youve learned to identify it. The next step forward is gathering the courage to act on it and walk away. Continuing to engage in it is a step backwards. If you keep doing this, it gets easier and easier and becomes second nature. Pretty soon dysfunctional, toxic, abusive, disordered people won't even register on your radar.
You wanted a healthy relationship, you're half way there, commit yourself to keep going and you will get there, I promise.
posted by OnefortheLast at 8:24 PM on May 21, 2019 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. My ask was long and all over the place, and confusing. It was great that you all have tried to answer anyway, and I've reread every one multiple times. My unclarity had a lot to do with the fact that I felt unexpectedly emotional at the time of writing.
The second bit I added was a bit more concrete and hopefully cleared up some of the confusion. At first I just gave my conclusions to keep things shorter, which may have come off too strong. And I initially tend to present myself in a bad light usually, lots of deep self-doubt, whenever I'm in a raw state.
Since Tuesday I've dialed the relationship way back and I've taken a lot of time to think about what has happened these last months and how I've felt. And from the very first contact we've had (loads of texts) I can see and realize now that I had recurrent doubts. I thought these feelings were more recent, which probably has to do a lot with feeling overwhelmed.
Unfortunately I've handled these concerns not in the best way, and I have indeed been too explicit/judgemental/"out loud". I agree it would have been so much better if I'd listened more carefully to my gut and kept it to myself. I have apologized to him.
The last answers have helped me recognize that I was trying to figure out what was important in all he has confided in me, and this huge amount of contact. What did and what did not matter in how he was treating me (and others) and if I felt good (enough) about his basic values. Aside from the alarming information itself.
And that is the most important thing for me at this point, in getting better and healthier judgment (just for myself). It's the hardest thing. And this is why I don't mind spending a lot of puzzling on this, because it just takes me much longer to find my gut instinct in all this.
posted by Litehouse at 1:43 PM on May 27, 2019
The second bit I added was a bit more concrete and hopefully cleared up some of the confusion. At first I just gave my conclusions to keep things shorter, which may have come off too strong. And I initially tend to present myself in a bad light usually, lots of deep self-doubt, whenever I'm in a raw state.
Since Tuesday I've dialed the relationship way back and I've taken a lot of time to think about what has happened these last months and how I've felt. And from the very first contact we've had (loads of texts) I can see and realize now that I had recurrent doubts. I thought these feelings were more recent, which probably has to do a lot with feeling overwhelmed.
Unfortunately I've handled these concerns not in the best way, and I have indeed been too explicit/judgemental/"out loud". I agree it would have been so much better if I'd listened more carefully to my gut and kept it to myself. I have apologized to him.
The last answers have helped me recognize that I was trying to figure out what was important in all he has confided in me, and this huge amount of contact. What did and what did not matter in how he was treating me (and others) and if I felt good (enough) about his basic values. Aside from the alarming information itself.
And that is the most important thing for me at this point, in getting better and healthier judgment (just for myself). It's the hardest thing. And this is why I don't mind spending a lot of puzzling on this, because it just takes me much longer to find my gut instinct in all this.
posted by Litehouse at 1:43 PM on May 27, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by xingcat at 6:05 AM on May 21, 2019 [9 favorites]