Worldbuilding complications: Islam and talking animals
April 28, 2019 8:19 PM Subscribe
Would would be the Islamic schools of thought in a setting with anthropomorphic talking animals, particularly pigs and dogs? No, this isn't a joke.
Givens:
1) Humans and anthropomorphic talking animals coexist in this setting.
2) The anthropomorphic talking animals are all basically human, except, obviously, not. They hold jobs, go to school, wear clothes, have human lifespans, and fit into human cultures.
3) For all intents and purposes, Islam developed in basically the exact same way as it did in our world, because inserting the anthropomorphic talking animals into history and the religious past would thoroughly butterfly-effect this entire question away, and I'm more interested in the response of Islam-as-we-know-it-in-our-nonfictional-world rather than an Islam that could be vastly different.
No rush in answering this question; I'm aware it's a really, really, really weird one. The level of authority of a response doesn't matter as much to me, either - whether it's the ruling of religious bigwigs to "ask your local imam."
Again, thanks. And also sorry.
Givens:
1) Humans and anthropomorphic talking animals coexist in this setting.
2) The anthropomorphic talking animals are all basically human, except, obviously, not. They hold jobs, go to school, wear clothes, have human lifespans, and fit into human cultures.
3) For all intents and purposes, Islam developed in basically the exact same way as it did in our world, because inserting the anthropomorphic talking animals into history and the religious past would thoroughly butterfly-effect this entire question away, and I'm more interested in the response of Islam-as-we-know-it-in-our-nonfictional-world rather than an Islam that could be vastly different.
No rush in answering this question; I'm aware it's a really, really, really weird one. The level of authority of a response doesn't matter as much to me, either - whether it's the ruling of religious bigwigs to "ask your local imam."
Again, thanks. And also sorry.
As a first approximation: probably Ħanbalī, Ħanafī, Mālikī, Shāff'ī, and Shī'ite, until you provide more data. :)
That is, it depends on what you're doing. If you're just mixing in talking animals as in Attar's Conference of the Birds, then everything remains pretty much as it is. If it's a speculative fiction about alternative sentient species... well, that depends on the detailed nature and history of your animals.
As I'm sure you know, pigs and dogs are ħarām as pets or food. But, are your talking animals considered to belong to the species we know? Is this a world where Goofy exists as a talking dog while Pluto exists as a regular dog? In effect, the scholars might decide either way: either Goofy is himself ħarām (which would be pretty serious for the talking-dog people), or he's deemed human but Pluto remains ħarām.
It might be worth pointing out that in Islam there are actually other sentient beings, the jinn. There's a chapter on them in the Qur'ān, which reveals that morally they are much like us-- some of them are Muslims, some are wrongdoers.
posted by zompist at 9:12 PM on April 28, 2019 [9 favorites]
That is, it depends on what you're doing. If you're just mixing in talking animals as in Attar's Conference of the Birds, then everything remains pretty much as it is. If it's a speculative fiction about alternative sentient species... well, that depends on the detailed nature and history of your animals.
As I'm sure you know, pigs and dogs are ħarām as pets or food. But, are your talking animals considered to belong to the species we know? Is this a world where Goofy exists as a talking dog while Pluto exists as a regular dog? In effect, the scholars might decide either way: either Goofy is himself ħarām (which would be pretty serious for the talking-dog people), or he's deemed human but Pluto remains ħarām.
It might be worth pointing out that in Islam there are actually other sentient beings, the jinn. There's a chapter on them in the Qur'ān, which reveals that morally they are much like us-- some of them are Muslims, some are wrongdoers.
posted by zompist at 9:12 PM on April 28, 2019 [9 favorites]
On a simple level - I know some Muslim parents who do not love characters like Peppa Pig. This is especially the case for having a doll or something.
posted by k8t at 11:16 PM on April 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by k8t at 11:16 PM on April 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
Its possibly not an issue in itself, but the implications might be. The characterisations of certain animals might be problematic.
How you portray pigs and dogs and other “haram” animals, and especially if you were to apply nations or caste systems to species with implied real world equivalents might be sensitive to certain people.
You’d certainly need to do your research on your characters, their attributes and their stories beforehand I would say.
posted by Middlemarch at 2:28 AM on April 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
How you portray pigs and dogs and other “haram” animals, and especially if you were to apply nations or caste systems to species with implied real world equivalents might be sensitive to certain people.
You’d certainly need to do your research on your characters, their attributes and their stories beforehand I would say.
posted by Middlemarch at 2:28 AM on April 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think the answer depends on whether or not there are still non-talking, non-sentient animals. If there are, then I think you can have non-sentient dogs and pigs still be considered haram, while all sentient talking animals are considered something like jinn. I.e., it doesn't matter what form the talking animal is in, they're all some variety of jinn, not animals. Personally, this is the answer I would go with in any fictional setting; it avoids imposing any weird and gross caste system on anthropomorphized animals.
I guess the answer also depends on how grim you're willing to get, because if all animals are sentient and can talk, the food chain becomes...problematic. (This has lowkey always been my problem with talking animals cartoons like the Lion King, because like, how touching, interspecies friendships with a warthog and a meerkat, but lions gotta eat, y'know?)
posted by yasaman at 10:14 AM on April 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
I guess the answer also depends on how grim you're willing to get, because if all animals are sentient and can talk, the food chain becomes...problematic. (This has lowkey always been my problem with talking animals cartoons like the Lion King, because like, how touching, interspecies friendships with a warthog and a meerkat, but lions gotta eat, y'know?)
posted by yasaman at 10:14 AM on April 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
King Solomon Was able to speak with animals. But this gift may have been learning the tongue of their communities, and not speaking human language with them?
(Although some animals can talk with djinn, and djinn with humans, so this needs some fleshing out).
There is a lot of scholarly speculation on Islam and extra terrestrials. This isn’t ruled out, and djinn and angels are used as a starting point.
posted by unknown knowns at 9:24 PM on April 29, 2019
(Although some animals can talk with djinn, and djinn with humans, so this needs some fleshing out).
There is a lot of scholarly speculation on Islam and extra terrestrials. This isn’t ruled out, and djinn and angels are used as a starting point.
posted by unknown knowns at 9:24 PM on April 29, 2019
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posted by w0mbat at 8:56 PM on April 28, 2019 [1 favorite]