Helping out a niece who has gone astray
April 25, 2019 6:53 AM Subscribe
I've got a whirl of emotions surrounding my niece that I'm trying to sort out and I'm hoping to get some perspectives.
Background: My niece (G) was adopted in Central America from a single mother who was dying of AIDS. We discovered later that G's mom's boyfriend had been seriously sexually abusing her. Take those together and you have a kid who had seen more shit at age five than a lot people see in a lifetime.
For all that, ages five to thirteen went as well as could be expected. G made friends, played sports, got okay grades, got very good at chess, etc. while periodically seeing a child therapist who specialized in adopted kids. A therapist, it turns out, who was not terribly surprised at what happened as G became a teenager.
In a word: anger. A certain amount she's managed to turn into writing and performing rap, but a lot of it has turned inward. G's been clear about how worthless she feels, and (I think) as a result she has surrounded herself with people who echo that back to her. Her parents had to remove her from the house at eighteen due to her threatening her siblings and her mother, and at this point they're largely watching helplessly as things unfold. G's nineteen now, she's had a series of abusive boyfriends, and the persona she's projecting is photos of her angrily flipping off the viewer and videos of sitting in cars getting stoned.
I'm fine with her spending this lifetime hotboxed in a Hyundai, but I'd rather see the abusive boyfriend thing come to the end. I feel like that will come with a sense of self worth. I also believe that doing your best for family is important, and I want to model that for her here.
So after not hearing from her for a long while I got the following message (interspersed with pictures of her flipping the camera off)
G: Hey T my bday is almost here I really need money big time cause I’m trying to do a big music video for my fans that’s gonna be a surprise but I got robbed after my ex bit me please uncle let me know if you can send me any money for my bday or anything would help I’m going through it but I’m going to give my passion everything I got. I deleted u because I never wanted you to see my pain. I love you❤️❤️ let me know if you already did send anything I’ll thank you before I get it
G: I’m going broke for following my dreams. I want to open a business and everything I got big dreams uncle yanno I wouldn’t be asking if I didn’t know I really needed it prides a mf I won’t ask my parents cause it hurts
I really don't know where to go from here. Part of me wants to chastise her for blowing smoke up my ass, part of me wants to chastise her for blowing smoke up her own ass. Part of me thinks I should let a 19 year-old be a 19-year old and just send her some money. Part of me thinks I shouldn't engage at all.
All of me thinks I'm in over my head and hopes that hearing different perspectives will help a lot.
Background: My niece (G) was adopted in Central America from a single mother who was dying of AIDS. We discovered later that G's mom's boyfriend had been seriously sexually abusing her. Take those together and you have a kid who had seen more shit at age five than a lot people see in a lifetime.
For all that, ages five to thirteen went as well as could be expected. G made friends, played sports, got okay grades, got very good at chess, etc. while periodically seeing a child therapist who specialized in adopted kids. A therapist, it turns out, who was not terribly surprised at what happened as G became a teenager.
In a word: anger. A certain amount she's managed to turn into writing and performing rap, but a lot of it has turned inward. G's been clear about how worthless she feels, and (I think) as a result she has surrounded herself with people who echo that back to her. Her parents had to remove her from the house at eighteen due to her threatening her siblings and her mother, and at this point they're largely watching helplessly as things unfold. G's nineteen now, she's had a series of abusive boyfriends, and the persona she's projecting is photos of her angrily flipping off the viewer and videos of sitting in cars getting stoned.
I'm fine with her spending this lifetime hotboxed in a Hyundai, but I'd rather see the abusive boyfriend thing come to the end. I feel like that will come with a sense of self worth. I also believe that doing your best for family is important, and I want to model that for her here.
So after not hearing from her for a long while I got the following message (interspersed with pictures of her flipping the camera off)
G: Hey T my bday is almost here I really need money big time cause I’m trying to do a big music video for my fans that’s gonna be a surprise but I got robbed after my ex bit me please uncle let me know if you can send me any money for my bday or anything would help I’m going through it but I’m going to give my passion everything I got. I deleted u because I never wanted you to see my pain. I love you❤️❤️ let me know if you already did send anything I’ll thank you before I get it
G: I’m going broke for following my dreams. I want to open a business and everything I got big dreams uncle yanno I wouldn’t be asking if I didn’t know I really needed it prides a mf I won’t ask my parents cause it hurts
I really don't know where to go from here. Part of me wants to chastise her for blowing smoke up my ass, part of me wants to chastise her for blowing smoke up her own ass. Part of me thinks I should let a 19 year-old be a 19-year old and just send her some money. Part of me thinks I shouldn't engage at all.
All of me thinks I'm in over my head and hopes that hearing different perspectives will help a lot.
I would decide what you're willing to do, and then do that. So, if you engage, it's possible that she will ask your for more money in the future - how much are you willing to give her? Would you have spent a certain amount on a birthday present in any case? If so, I'd send her that much.
I don't think the money should come with strings attached, and I definitely think that you should decide ahead of time what you're willing to give and then stick to that. This is something that is hard for me to do personally - sometimes I feel like it's all or nothing with my family.
This situation sucks, and I am sorry for both you and your niece.
posted by needlegrrl at 7:28 AM on April 25, 2019
I don't think the money should come with strings attached, and I definitely think that you should decide ahead of time what you're willing to give and then stick to that. This is something that is hard for me to do personally - sometimes I feel like it's all or nothing with my family.
This situation sucks, and I am sorry for both you and your niece.
posted by needlegrrl at 7:28 AM on April 25, 2019
So after not hearing from her for a long while ....
I would suggest that the best thing a family member can do to make someone feel valued and worthy of unconditional love is to put the effort into developing and maintaining an ongoing relationship with them regardless of behaviors they engage in that you might not approve of.
posted by headnsouth at 7:29 AM on April 25, 2019 [28 favorites]
I would suggest that the best thing a family member can do to make someone feel valued and worthy of unconditional love is to put the effort into developing and maintaining an ongoing relationship with them regardless of behaviors they engage in that you might not approve of.
posted by headnsouth at 7:29 AM on April 25, 2019 [28 favorites]
At 19, I think the time for chastisement is probably over. The tension between a horrendous past and owning one's decisions as an adult is really difficult to navigate in the best of circumstances. Perhaps a legit, reasoned conversation about plans and the future, next steps, and so on which would honor her statements about where she's trying to get to and how?
posted by jquinby at 7:31 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by jquinby at 7:31 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
I mean, the ask is either a fib or an unconscious fib based on wishful thinking - she's almost certainly not making a music video as a surprise for her fans - and that's a bit irritating.
My thought is that you should develop boundaries in advance, because if you give her money now, she'll ask again and again and again, and possibly ask to live with you, and possibly turn mean if you say no, and you'll be better off if you've got it square in your head that you're willing to give her up to X dollars a year but not willing to let her move in, or whatever your boundaries are.
On the other hand, no one is hitting people up for money in this way because their lives are so great and they're so happy. Personally I usually try to help people out up to a point, although I don't let people live with me anymore except in special circumstances - that's been too much chaos too often.
If it's legit her birthday and you can afford it, send her a birthday present. In the future, if she asks again, give her money up to the point that you can reasonably afford without provoking resentment or undue hardship. I think that if you can build a relationship with her - buy her dinner once every few weeks or something structured but low-key - that will work to everyone's advantage. If you have a good relationship with her in the long run, it will be easier to help her later if she needs significant assistance.
IME, a lot of people who go through this kind of chaotic-awful phase around this age do in fact pull out of it as long as they can avoid getting tangled up in the legal system. Housing stability is a big part of being able to pull out of this situation IME, so if your niece is unstably housed, keep an eye open for resources to recommend to her.
posted by Frowner at 7:32 AM on April 25, 2019 [22 favorites]
My thought is that you should develop boundaries in advance, because if you give her money now, she'll ask again and again and again, and possibly ask to live with you, and possibly turn mean if you say no, and you'll be better off if you've got it square in your head that you're willing to give her up to X dollars a year but not willing to let her move in, or whatever your boundaries are.
On the other hand, no one is hitting people up for money in this way because their lives are so great and they're so happy. Personally I usually try to help people out up to a point, although I don't let people live with me anymore except in special circumstances - that's been too much chaos too often.
If it's legit her birthday and you can afford it, send her a birthday present. In the future, if she asks again, give her money up to the point that you can reasonably afford without provoking resentment or undue hardship. I think that if you can build a relationship with her - buy her dinner once every few weeks or something structured but low-key - that will work to everyone's advantage. If you have a good relationship with her in the long run, it will be easier to help her later if she needs significant assistance.
IME, a lot of people who go through this kind of chaotic-awful phase around this age do in fact pull out of it as long as they can avoid getting tangled up in the legal system. Housing stability is a big part of being able to pull out of this situation IME, so if your niece is unstably housed, keep an eye open for resources to recommend to her.
posted by Frowner at 7:32 AM on April 25, 2019 [22 favorites]
What do you think she needs more, money or a relationship with a caring family member?
posted by amtho at 7:35 AM on April 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by amtho at 7:35 AM on April 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
Don't send her any money, ever. Nothing good will come of it, and it will just mark you in the future as someone who can be hit up for money.
posted by Melismata at 7:36 AM on April 25, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 7:36 AM on April 25, 2019 [13 favorites]
I think that if you can build a relationship with her - buy her dinner once every few weeks or something structured but low-key - that will work to everyone's advantage.
Yes, this! If she is actually being abused, and you're not just using the term "abusive boyfriend" as a code for "kind of a loser, not who we would have chosen for her" then she needs someone checking in on her gently but regularly.
posted by coffeeand at 7:38 AM on April 25, 2019 [22 favorites]
Yes, this! If she is actually being abused, and you're not just using the term "abusive boyfriend" as a code for "kind of a loser, not who we would have chosen for her" then she needs someone checking in on her gently but regularly.
posted by coffeeand at 7:38 AM on April 25, 2019 [22 favorites]
Yes, this feels like - a lot of judgment, and as if the last thing she needs is "chastisement" from one of the few family members she's currently willing to reach out to for any reason. Tell her you love her, wish her a happy birthday, and offer to take her out for a birthday lunch or ice cream or something. Keep in touch, and be a consistent reliable source of loving family contact in her life, if you can safely do so.
If you're willing to spend money on her for her birthday, I would give her that money, no strings attached, but be prepared for future requests and ready to say "that's not in my budget" or "I can help you XYZ other ways that aren't money" or whatever. It's also fine to not give her anything, or to give her a birthday present that's not money. Whatever you give, get your boundaries clear in your head beforehand.
There are two asks here - for money, and for contact. I'd tailor my response to the unspoken one. Even if it ends up blowing up because you haven't given the money asked for, you've at least left the breadcrumb trail that you are available for the other ask when/if she's ready for it.
posted by Stacey at 7:54 AM on April 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
If you're willing to spend money on her for her birthday, I would give her that money, no strings attached, but be prepared for future requests and ready to say "that's not in my budget" or "I can help you XYZ other ways that aren't money" or whatever. It's also fine to not give her anything, or to give her a birthday present that's not money. Whatever you give, get your boundaries clear in your head beforehand.
There are two asks here - for money, and for contact. I'd tailor my response to the unspoken one. Even if it ends up blowing up because you haven't given the money asked for, you've at least left the breadcrumb trail that you are available for the other ask when/if she's ready for it.
posted by Stacey at 7:54 AM on April 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: I would suggest that the best thing a family member can do to make someone feel valued and worthy of unconditional love is to put the effort into developing and maintaining an ongoing relationship
That would be my preference but as she wrote, she deleted me. I took that to mean she wanted her own space and didn’t push. Maybe I should have?
I should have mentioned that the family lives in a different country from me, so being a physical presence in her life is not possible.
Yes, this! If she is actually being abused, and you're not just using the term "abusive boyfriend" [...] she needs someone checking in on her gently but regularly.
We have only her word for the reasons, but her parents have had to pick her up at the hospital twice after she had been badly beaten. In one case her arm was broken in two places. Her parents do their best to check in — my hopes aren’t high that I could do that electronically.
posted by askingforafriend at 8:01 AM on April 25, 2019
That would be my preference but as she wrote, she deleted me. I took that to mean she wanted her own space and didn’t push. Maybe I should have?
I should have mentioned that the family lives in a different country from me, so being a physical presence in her life is not possible.
Yes, this! If she is actually being abused, and you're not just using the term "abusive boyfriend" [...] she needs someone checking in on her gently but regularly.
We have only her word for the reasons, but her parents have had to pick her up at the hospital twice after she had been badly beaten. In one case her arm was broken in two places. Her parents do their best to check in — my hopes aren’t high that I could do that electronically.
posted by askingforafriend at 8:01 AM on April 25, 2019
God, 19 is so hard and weird. And if she's very "committed" to being an internet rapper or whatever, she at least has some dreams? I mean, lots of teenagers dream of being famous because they're looking for validation from others - they don't care about the validation of family members, they want the validation of strangers because they feel compelled to earn it.
I would probably give her some money, but not much, with a sincere interest (fake it if you have to) to check out her work. My likely response would be: "I love hearing from you and getting updates on your life. I don't have a lot of money to spare, but I can send you a little bit. Would you mind sending me some videos or links so I can check out your music?" And then send her, like, $30. Then I'd follow up a few days later with, "Would you like to meet up for breakfast for your birthday? I love you just the way you are, no strings attached."
Breakfast with a stoned 19-year-old doesn't sound like my idea of fun, but the more you can get her to talk about herself, the better. Ask about those dreams. Give her open-ended responses, avoid the word "no." Things like, "Wow! What would it take to get to [that level]?" "That sounds like a lot of work. How do you manage it?" "What kind of fans do you have?" "That's a big investment, but it sounds like you have a plan." Confidence, patience, acceptance.
ETA: I just saw that you don't live local, so disregard my breakfast suggestions. Leaving them here for posterity.
posted by juniperesque at 8:02 AM on April 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
I would probably give her some money, but not much, with a sincere interest (fake it if you have to) to check out her work. My likely response would be: "I love hearing from you and getting updates on your life. I don't have a lot of money to spare, but I can send you a little bit. Would you mind sending me some videos or links so I can check out your music?" And then send her, like, $30. Then I'd follow up a few days later with, "Would you like to meet up for breakfast for your birthday? I love you just the way you are, no strings attached."
Breakfast with a stoned 19-year-old doesn't sound like my idea of fun, but the more you can get her to talk about herself, the better. Ask about those dreams. Give her open-ended responses, avoid the word "no." Things like, "Wow! What would it take to get to [that level]?" "That sounds like a lot of work. How do you manage it?" "What kind of fans do you have?" "That's a big investment, but it sounds like you have a plan." Confidence, patience, acceptance.
ETA: I just saw that you don't live local, so disregard my breakfast suggestions. Leaving them here for posterity.
posted by juniperesque at 8:02 AM on April 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
I think unless the anger is directed at you, it's out of your scope as an aunt, except to witness.
I'm not an angry 19 year old, but I have an aunt in my life who has been a constant presence since I was, not by her direct presence (in fact mostly after the age of 15 I never really have seen her much) but because she has always sent me the corniest stuff - inspirational quotes about every other week, the odd dollar store level gift. I love her so much. She doesn't have to give me anything else. I know what she means. She's family and around.
I love Juniperesque's phrasing of the sending a little bit of money and loving to hear from her and about her. I would send her, through whatever means, little bits of awesome - articles on authentic, music-making people, articles by and about bruised young women - now and then.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:19 AM on April 25, 2019 [10 favorites]
I'm not an angry 19 year old, but I have an aunt in my life who has been a constant presence since I was, not by her direct presence (in fact mostly after the age of 15 I never really have seen her much) but because she has always sent me the corniest stuff - inspirational quotes about every other week, the odd dollar store level gift. I love her so much. She doesn't have to give me anything else. I know what she means. She's family and around.
I love Juniperesque's phrasing of the sending a little bit of money and loving to hear from her and about her. I would send her, through whatever means, little bits of awesome - articles on authentic, music-making people, articles by and about bruised young women - now and then.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:19 AM on April 25, 2019 [10 favorites]
Don’t chastise her but don’t send her money. Say you miss her and would like to take her out for a coffee or go record shopping (or some other activity that aligns with interests you might have in common) for her birthday.
posted by sallybrown at 8:21 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by sallybrown at 8:21 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Yeah, given your update, the problem here is not that your niece has "gone astray" and is posting stupid teenage posturing on Instagram, it's that she's being abused. Doesn't actually change my advice, but it might be a really good idea to try to reframe that in your own mind so you can approach this in a way that's going to be more helpful to get your niece into a safe situation.
It's fine for her to want her own space and not want you on her social media, but if she deletes you again after this conversation, that doesn't mean "drop all contact with her." It means "figure out what she is comfortable with, and go from there." Send her an occasional email, text her once in a while, see how she responds and if you can strike up any kind of rapport in a way that she is comfortable with. If she tells you to back off, then back off. She gets to have boundaries, and hell, you backing off at a given point in time might be what she needs to be safe in the short term, if she's being isolated by an abuser. But don't just vanish - leave the door open with "I love you and hope to hear from you again in the future if that's ever something you're comfortable with" or something along those lines.
She's not safe. You can't swoop in and make her safe, for a variety of reasons, so it's your job to keep a line of contact open, however thin or rare it is, and to make yourself someone safe she can reach out to when/if she's ready to leave. That doesn't mean you have to give her money but it definitely means that shutting her down with some sort of chastisement about her 19-year-old life choices is an extra- bad idea.
posted by Stacey at 8:28 AM on April 25, 2019 [14 favorites]
It's fine for her to want her own space and not want you on her social media, but if she deletes you again after this conversation, that doesn't mean "drop all contact with her." It means "figure out what she is comfortable with, and go from there." Send her an occasional email, text her once in a while, see how she responds and if you can strike up any kind of rapport in a way that she is comfortable with. If she tells you to back off, then back off. She gets to have boundaries, and hell, you backing off at a given point in time might be what she needs to be safe in the short term, if she's being isolated by an abuser. But don't just vanish - leave the door open with "I love you and hope to hear from you again in the future if that's ever something you're comfortable with" or something along those lines.
She's not safe. You can't swoop in and make her safe, for a variety of reasons, so it's your job to keep a line of contact open, however thin or rare it is, and to make yourself someone safe she can reach out to when/if she's ready to leave. That doesn't mean you have to give her money but it definitely means that shutting her down with some sort of chastisement about her 19-year-old life choices is an extra- bad idea.
posted by Stacey at 8:28 AM on April 25, 2019 [14 favorites]
Yeah, that's fair: If you can't make yourself a safe person for her to express her actual life and feelings to, then don't pretend that you can. This isn't a situation where you can fake it.
posted by Stacey at 8:41 AM on April 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 8:41 AM on April 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
In this case, don't contact her, whatever else is happening, she's better off without an influence like you in her life.
I think that's true presently but it sounds like Niece really needs an ally here and she has expressed an interest in some contact with the OP, at least. So if I were you, OP, I would make an effort to become the sort of person G needs right now. Try reading books about her experiences-- books about having trauma, being adopted, surviving violence. Then maybe you'll be able to relate to her better, which would help her trust you more, and put you in more of a position to help.
posted by coffeeand at 9:02 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think that's true presently but it sounds like Niece really needs an ally here and she has expressed an interest in some contact with the OP, at least. So if I were you, OP, I would make an effort to become the sort of person G needs right now. Try reading books about her experiences-- books about having trauma, being adopted, surviving violence. Then maybe you'll be able to relate to her better, which would help her trust you more, and put you in more of a position to help.
posted by coffeeand at 9:02 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
I should have mentioned that the family lives in a different country from me, so being a physical presence in her life is not possible.
Then I think the best thing you can do is not be yet another enabler in this kid's life. Or somebody who helps up to a point, and then gives up when continuing to do so becomes unsustainable.
Send her a nice, thoughtful present with a low resale value.
Eventually, she may get her shit together, start getting her life on track, and look around for people who didn't choose the path of least resistance with her and join in the ass-smoke-blowing. People like that are always in shockingly short supply when you finally get around to needing them.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:27 AM on April 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
Then I think the best thing you can do is not be yet another enabler in this kid's life. Or somebody who helps up to a point, and then gives up when continuing to do so becomes unsustainable.
Send her a nice, thoughtful present with a low resale value.
Eventually, she may get her shit together, start getting her life on track, and look around for people who didn't choose the path of least resistance with her and join in the ass-smoke-blowing. People like that are always in shockingly short supply when you finally get around to needing them.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:27 AM on April 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
So memail if you want to talk more but as someone in a very similar family situation, you really need to be a non-judgegy listening person.
This is someone dealing with active abuse and past abuse and 13 is totally the typical age when this boils over and for her to get to 19 alive, not pregnant, not majorly addicted, not in jail and with a creative outlet she actively uses is a Big Win. She even went through therapy earlier - lots of positive signs for her future as a young adult when she gets further along. Seriously, that's a young woman with a lot of strength.
Get an address you can mail stuff to her and send her a ridiculous oversized card and a box of her favourite candy. Sign her up for magazines about writing or some other interest you know she has. If you only have an email address for her, then find out if you can get her a Spotify subscription or Netflix or something online she'd enjoy.
I agree with not sending cash with the abusive boyfriend and general idiocy. Offer to buy a ticket in her name (non-refundable) for her to come visit you any time she wants of course, but no cash, that's pretty pointless.
Whatever she wants to talk by - snapchat, email, Instagram, Facebook, texting - figure it out and talk with her. Not just Big Deep Conversation but random stuff like celebrity gossip and about your day, favourite food, cute dog pictures.
And tell her parents that you're chatting with her and you're encouraging her, but do NOT spy for them. Be really clear with her that you're not repeating her stuff to them. If she tells you something dangerous and you need to tell them to like call the cops, like her boyfriend has a gun and is threatening her, tell her you're doing that. Don't go behind her back.
She sounds like someone with a long road ahead who has a lot of potential and a lot of emerging strengths. Be in her corner.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:29 AM on April 25, 2019 [28 favorites]
This is someone dealing with active abuse and past abuse and 13 is totally the typical age when this boils over and for her to get to 19 alive, not pregnant, not majorly addicted, not in jail and with a creative outlet she actively uses is a Big Win. She even went through therapy earlier - lots of positive signs for her future as a young adult when she gets further along. Seriously, that's a young woman with a lot of strength.
Get an address you can mail stuff to her and send her a ridiculous oversized card and a box of her favourite candy. Sign her up for magazines about writing or some other interest you know she has. If you only have an email address for her, then find out if you can get her a Spotify subscription or Netflix or something online she'd enjoy.
I agree with not sending cash with the abusive boyfriend and general idiocy. Offer to buy a ticket in her name (non-refundable) for her to come visit you any time she wants of course, but no cash, that's pretty pointless.
Whatever she wants to talk by - snapchat, email, Instagram, Facebook, texting - figure it out and talk with her. Not just Big Deep Conversation but random stuff like celebrity gossip and about your day, favourite food, cute dog pictures.
And tell her parents that you're chatting with her and you're encouraging her, but do NOT spy for them. Be really clear with her that you're not repeating her stuff to them. If she tells you something dangerous and you need to tell them to like call the cops, like her boyfriend has a gun and is threatening her, tell her you're doing that. Don't go behind her back.
She sounds like someone with a long road ahead who has a lot of potential and a lot of emerging strengths. Be in her corner.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 9:29 AM on April 25, 2019 [28 favorites]
The thing is, would she actually come out and say "I need $375 so I can move out from living with this abusive guy?" or "I need $20 for the Plan B prescription" or even just "with $4 I could pay another neighbor to give me a ride so I don't have to depend on this drunk person to drive me safely to work" or whatever? There are worse things than giving someone a little cash from time to time.
I wouldn't sponsor her album. I think that's too much pressure on her. But I wouldn't hold it against her for asking in that way. That's her trying to ask for money without being pitiful, to keep you proud of her and maintain your belief in her.
I'd try to relate to her in a way that gets past that front (while respecting that it's how she's defining herself) and lets her know that you believe in HER her, not just the her that might become a music star.
I really appreciate dorothyisunderwood's comment and think s/he has it right about using the gifts to show you care and build a relationship.
But what I had been thinking was -- sponsor her album? no. but an emancipated 18 year old? consider sponsoring her life. Like, send her the occasional $25 check to help make ends meet. A grocery card you "won in a raffle but can't use because you don't shop there." Maybe even your old iPhone (knowing she might sell it). The money won't fix her life any sooner than she herself is ready to, but just because she's making some bad decisions, occasionally giving her a little financial breathing room might not be a bad idea.
posted by salvia at 10:18 AM on April 25, 2019 [13 favorites]
I wouldn't sponsor her album. I think that's too much pressure on her. But I wouldn't hold it against her for asking in that way. That's her trying to ask for money without being pitiful, to keep you proud of her and maintain your belief in her.
I'd try to relate to her in a way that gets past that front (while respecting that it's how she's defining herself) and lets her know that you believe in HER her, not just the her that might become a music star.
I really appreciate dorothyisunderwood's comment and think s/he has it right about using the gifts to show you care and build a relationship.
But what I had been thinking was -- sponsor her album? no. but an emancipated 18 year old? consider sponsoring her life. Like, send her the occasional $25 check to help make ends meet. A grocery card you "won in a raffle but can't use because you don't shop there." Maybe even your old iPhone (knowing she might sell it). The money won't fix her life any sooner than she herself is ready to, but just because she's making some bad decisions, occasionally giving her a little financial breathing room might not be a bad idea.
posted by salvia at 10:18 AM on April 25, 2019 [13 favorites]
Part of me thinks I should let a 19 year-old be a 19-year old and just send her some money.
Assuming that your own finances are not an issue, I think you should listen to this part of you. 19-year-olds who aren't coping with the past and present of abuse that she's coping with, who follow typical middle-class life paths by going to college, they get financial help from their families all the time. Everyone needs a safety net, especially at 19, especially when trying to work through some serious psychological trauma.
Will she spend the money in a way you don't approve of? Probably. 19-year-old kids in college often spend their parents' money on beer and parties, but it's considered socially acceptable within the confines of the "right" life path. Having that little bit of safety net to make some (more) mistakes and still be okay might be what your niece needs to make it through this difficult time.
I like salvia's phrasing: "consider sponsoring her life." 19 is still really young, and it's hard to be financially independent at that age even without all of the additional factors you've described. If you can afford to help her out from time to time, and want to do so, I think you should, without strings attached.
posted by biogeo at 11:16 AM on April 25, 2019 [10 favorites]
Assuming that your own finances are not an issue, I think you should listen to this part of you. 19-year-olds who aren't coping with the past and present of abuse that she's coping with, who follow typical middle-class life paths by going to college, they get financial help from their families all the time. Everyone needs a safety net, especially at 19, especially when trying to work through some serious psychological trauma.
Will she spend the money in a way you don't approve of? Probably. 19-year-old kids in college often spend their parents' money on beer and parties, but it's considered socially acceptable within the confines of the "right" life path. Having that little bit of safety net to make some (more) mistakes and still be okay might be what your niece needs to make it through this difficult time.
I like salvia's phrasing: "consider sponsoring her life." 19 is still really young, and it's hard to be financially independent at that age even without all of the additional factors you've described. If you can afford to help her out from time to time, and want to do so, I think you should, without strings attached.
posted by biogeo at 11:16 AM on April 25, 2019 [10 favorites]
Tough situation. I'd probably send her something along the lines of $50 (without expectations, no strings attached) as a way of keeping the communication channel open. Then drop her a line every once in a whole on Instagram or whatever she's using. She may ask for money again, you can say no then. I agree with the advice from Dorothyisunderwood.
posted by emd3737 at 11:27 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by emd3737 at 11:27 AM on April 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
I agree with your instinct to send some money.
Also, please acknowledge the specifics in her message: You're so glad she's reached out, because the deletion worried and saddened you; you're excited about her plans and goals, and you'd love to see her work whenever she'd like to share it; you're family, you love her no matter what -- it's okay for her to show you her pain.
Agree with other answers re: boundaries.
If the latest terrible boyfriend is an ex, that's great... though her living situation may have become more precarious, and she's too proud to ask her parents.
But even if it's just "blowing smoke" now, do what you can to stay in contact with your niece.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:38 PM on April 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Also, please acknowledge the specifics in her message: You're so glad she's reached out, because the deletion worried and saddened you; you're excited about her plans and goals, and you'd love to see her work whenever she'd like to share it; you're family, you love her no matter what -- it's okay for her to show you her pain.
Agree with other answers re: boundaries.
If the latest terrible boyfriend is an ex, that's great... though her living situation may have become more precarious, and she's too proud to ask her parents.
But even if it's just "blowing smoke" now, do what you can to stay in contact with your niece.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:38 PM on April 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Do you have any tech or music video experience? If you could connect and support her that way, it might be a way in to her life. Or maybe even hook her up with someone that has expertise. It would show that you are taking her dreams seriously, and she might respect that. And that respect might lead to self respect that could help strengthen her self esteem and be more likely to ditch these guys.
posted by MountainDaisy at 3:58 PM on April 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by MountainDaisy at 3:58 PM on April 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Her parents had to remove her from the house at eighteen due to her threatening her siblings and her mother, and at this point they're largely watching helplessly as things unfold.
she's 19 now, they threw her out of her home a year ago, she lives -- where? and has no home to go back to, and people are telling you not to give her money?
if her parents allowed her to come back to her home at some point after throwing her out, please clarify, it makes a big difference. if she ever did more than threaten, that also makes a big difference. evicting your teenage child because she's punching your other kids makes sense to me. evicting her for big talk - doesn't.
the text bit about not asking her parents for help because of pride, do you believe that, or do you think she's getting money from them and just telling you a sad story? or do you think she is not asking them, not out of pride but because she knows they are not interested in providing material help?
she mentions an attack from an ex, so she got away from at least one abuser even if she's with a new one now. good for her, tell her so.
anyway, you can't fund her life (I assume) but if her birthday's coming and you care about her, of course get her a present. to be nice, make it what she asked for: money. she's going to blow it on her "music video for [her] fans" but it's her birthday. besides, she's not telling you lies about how she needs money for college or whatever, she is upfront with you about her dumb dreams.
a teenage woman whose boyfriends break her bones and whose parents kicked her out is not in danger of having too many people be too soft with her.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:41 PM on April 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
she's 19 now, they threw her out of her home a year ago, she lives -- where? and has no home to go back to, and people are telling you not to give her money?
if her parents allowed her to come back to her home at some point after throwing her out, please clarify, it makes a big difference. if she ever did more than threaten, that also makes a big difference. evicting your teenage child because she's punching your other kids makes sense to me. evicting her for big talk - doesn't.
the text bit about not asking her parents for help because of pride, do you believe that, or do you think she's getting money from them and just telling you a sad story? or do you think she is not asking them, not out of pride but because she knows they are not interested in providing material help?
she mentions an attack from an ex, so she got away from at least one abuser even if she's with a new one now. good for her, tell her so.
anyway, you can't fund her life (I assume) but if her birthday's coming and you care about her, of course get her a present. to be nice, make it what she asked for: money. she's going to blow it on her "music video for [her] fans" but it's her birthday. besides, she's not telling you lies about how she needs money for college or whatever, she is upfront with you about her dumb dreams.
a teenage woman whose boyfriends break her bones and whose parents kicked her out is not in danger of having too many people be too soft with her.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:41 PM on April 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
besides, she's not telling you lies about how she needs money for college or whatever, she is upfront with you about her dumb dreams.
Well, she probably is lying, from beginning to end (lots of familiar cliched rhetoric in there). She's probably going to spend it on weed (weed being the least bad possibility here). I think this is one of those situations where, if you're going to get involved, you have to accept that nothing you hear will be true and the money will be spent very unwisely, so your generosity has to not hinge on expectations of good behavior, but rather on unconditional love. Unconditional love for someone in this kind of situation yet with healthy boundaries is very difficult to achieve; many loved ones of addicts never get there. But maybe it's easier for someone a little removed from the immediate situation.
posted by praemunire at 8:13 PM on April 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
Well, she probably is lying, from beginning to end (lots of familiar cliched rhetoric in there). She's probably going to spend it on weed (weed being the least bad possibility here). I think this is one of those situations where, if you're going to get involved, you have to accept that nothing you hear will be true and the money will be spent very unwisely, so your generosity has to not hinge on expectations of good behavior, but rather on unconditional love. Unconditional love for someone in this kind of situation yet with healthy boundaries is very difficult to achieve; many loved ones of addicts never get there. But maybe it's easier for someone a little removed from the immediate situation.
posted by praemunire at 8:13 PM on April 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you to everyone for your thoughts on this. I've been reading and trying not to jump in with defensive comments, and I'm glad because I needed to hear some of the harder stuff.
The biggest thing I needed to hear is that this is no longer my 14 year old niece who writes violently misogynistic rap lyrics. This is a young woman in a cycle of violent relationships, and whether to send her $50 for her birthday is a really small deal in comparison.
I too question whether I'm the right person to be an outside contact. Fortunately there are better candidates in the family and I suspect reframing the situation for them will lead them to take a more active role.
Thank you again to everyone who contributed here. I've read every word (three or four times now) and it has given me much to think about.
posted by askingforafriend at 3:46 PM on April 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
The biggest thing I needed to hear is that this is no longer my 14 year old niece who writes violently misogynistic rap lyrics. This is a young woman in a cycle of violent relationships, and whether to send her $50 for her birthday is a really small deal in comparison.
I too question whether I'm the right person to be an outside contact. Fortunately there are better candidates in the family and I suspect reframing the situation for them will lead them to take a more active role.
Thank you again to everyone who contributed here. I've read every word (three or four times now) and it has given me much to think about.
posted by askingforafriend at 3:46 PM on April 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
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I'm fine with her spending this lifetime hotboxed in a Hyundai
You do not sound fine with that.
That's about the end of my own depth of knowledge here. I think you should give her the money only if you want to, and only if it comes with no strings attached. She will probably sense it if you have even a whiff of an agenda.
posted by coffeeand at 7:18 AM on April 25, 2019 [8 favorites]