Pregnancy, travel, and work
March 28, 2019 9:07 AM Subscribe
I’m supposed to travel to a work training when I’ll be 33-34 weeks pregnant. The HR department, which also handles travel, is asking me to provide them with a certification from my doctor that it is safe for me to travel at that time. Are they allowed to request this? I don’t mind taking a note to the airport, but don’t want to provide anything to HR. Are there any laws that prevent employers from asking personal pregnancy questions or making the kind of request they are making? Thank you!
Response by poster: The organization is a big (thousands of employees) U.S.-based organization, but physically I am located overseas.
posted by Lingasol at 9:17 AM on March 28, 2019
posted by Lingasol at 9:17 AM on March 28, 2019
This may be to supply to the airlines to buy the actual ticket
posted by catspajammies at 9:47 AM on March 28, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by catspajammies at 9:47 AM on March 28, 2019 [5 favorites]
This will depend on where you're located and what local laws apply and you'll probably want to speak to an employment law attorney in your country, and it could be even more complicated if you're not a citizen of the country where you are based (i.e. if you are a US citizen you might also need to get the State Department involved via your embassy, which will likely be an administrative nightmare to get a simple answer to a complex question). All in all it sounds like a lot of work for you to get the answer you are looking for.
At the same time, I struggle to see ill motivations on behalf of your HR - they simply want to avoid a situation that could put you or your unborn child in danger where they could be held responsible. This seems in the best interest of both you and your organization. I'm not saying you're wrong to not want to provide anything, that's totally your prerogative. I'm just saying I personally don't see giving them a doctor's note to calm their worries being worth the headache of confirming that you don't have to do that and providing them with that legal reasoning.
posted by allkindsoftime at 9:59 AM on March 28, 2019 [9 favorites]
At the same time, I struggle to see ill motivations on behalf of your HR - they simply want to avoid a situation that could put you or your unborn child in danger where they could be held responsible. This seems in the best interest of both you and your organization. I'm not saying you're wrong to not want to provide anything, that's totally your prerogative. I'm just saying I personally don't see giving them a doctor's note to calm their worries being worth the headache of confirming that you don't have to do that and providing them with that legal reasoning.
posted by allkindsoftime at 9:59 AM on March 28, 2019 [9 favorites]
I absolutely see something extremely wrong with it, FWIW. Pregnancy is not an excuse to treat women like children who are incapable of making their own decisions about what's best for themselves and their unborn children. I'd be livid.
posted by waffleriot at 10:00 AM on March 28, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by waffleriot at 10:00 AM on March 28, 2019 [6 favorites]
A US lawyer (licensed in the state your employer is based in, although I think the relevant laws are probably federal - ADA ) who specializes in disability could probably better answer your question. Pregnancy can be considered a short-term disability in that it can restrict your ability to do certain work functions, and people can request accommodations for pregnancy under disability law. But if you have not requested accommodations I'm not sure the employer can ask you to take some, which is what it sounds like they are trying to do. If not attending the work trip would harm your career and they force you not to, that maybe could be considered disability discrimination. In my state, Massachusetts, we have the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act, which says that "employers may not treat employees or job applicants less favorably than other employees based on pregnancy or pregnancy-related conditions and have an obligation to accommodate pregnant workers," and other states may have similar provisions. In general, I'd think the Americans with Disabilities Act is relevant here, but I am not a lawyer and you really need a lawyer!
posted by epanalepsis at 10:11 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by epanalepsis at 10:11 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
How far along are you? If 33-34 weeks is awhile away, your doctor may not be willing to provide a note too far in advance, because things can change very rapidly in pregnancy (esp if you haven't had the 20 week scans yet). I don't know about laws, per se, but in terms of US medical guidelines I'd be surprised if they were willing to write a note about this too far in advance, which is to say this seems like a strange request from HR. (If you have a healthy pregnancy with no complications I'd expect your provider would verbally tell you it's fine and that the recommended cut off for travel is 36 weeks, which is primarily because they assume you want to be near home to actually have the baby.) But depending how far along you are and your pregnancy's particulars they may not be medically able to assure them now of your health to travel at that point, meaning they wouldn't be able to write a note.
posted by john_snow at 10:16 AM on March 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by john_snow at 10:16 AM on March 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
Is the travel voluntary or are you being required to travel for a training? If the latter, I suspect HR wants to be sure that it is not requiring you to do something that is medically unsafe. I do not know if they are legally permitted to ask you for a doctor's note - but I would suspect that the legal issues (and concerns about liability) may be informed by whether or not the travel is voluntary.
posted by Mid at 10:18 AM on March 28, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Mid at 10:18 AM on March 28, 2019 [6 favorites]
YMMV, but over here in Europe several airlines won’t let you fly past week 34 and discourage travel after week 28 (ie there would be a high likelihood of hassle at the gate). Here are some examples. Sounds like the dates your looking at will be fine for some airlines but not for others, hence a doctor’s note will be helpful if you don’t want to risk getting turned away after paying for your flight. I suspect that’s part of the reason the company is requesting this.
Perhaps a good middle ground would be assurance from you in writing that you have said doctors note and will be able to produce it for the airline if needed? I would also bring a printed copy of the airline’s policy on pregnant travels to the airport. All it takes is one risk-averse check in agent to derail your travel arrangements. Good luck with your trip, and your pregnancy.
posted by Concordia at 10:22 AM on March 28, 2019 [10 favorites]
Perhaps a good middle ground would be assurance from you in writing that you have said doctors note and will be able to produce it for the airline if needed? I would also bring a printed copy of the airline’s policy on pregnant travels to the airport. All it takes is one risk-averse check in agent to derail your travel arrangements. Good luck with your trip, and your pregnancy.
posted by Concordia at 10:22 AM on March 28, 2019 [10 favorites]
Airlines may have a problem with it. Here's a list (from 2015, so getting updated info is a must) of airlines and their policies flying pregnant women. If airlines are unsatisfied with your doctor's note, they will refund your ticket and tell you to have a nice day.
I have also read that the doctor's note should be dated within 72 hrs of the flight, which makes more sense than one from weeks or months in advance, considering how dynamic pregnancy can be. So, on that note, start to make the arrangement with your doctor ASAP.
posted by Sunburnt at 10:22 AM on March 28, 2019 [10 favorites]
I have also read that the doctor's note should be dated within 72 hrs of the flight, which makes more sense than one from weeks or months in advance, considering how dynamic pregnancy can be. So, on that note, start to make the arrangement with your doctor ASAP.
posted by Sunburnt at 10:22 AM on March 28, 2019 [10 favorites]
Have you actually asked them why they need this or asked to be referred to relevant sections of the employee handbook/policies? Do that and let those respo inform your next steps? And yes, pregnant colleagues have had to provide extremely recent dr’s notes to airlines and to do so checking in and at the gate. So that wouldn’t normally be something HR would handle.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:44 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:44 AM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
Pregnancy is not an excuse to treat women like children who are incapable of making their own decisions about what's best for themselves and their unborn children.
They’re not worried about the health of the pregnant employee, they’re worried about getting sued in the event the employee is injured in some way in the course of performing work for the company. But as many have pointed out, this is a complicated issue legally (and probably medically, as far as getting a doctor to write this type of note!), and I wonder if HR really looked into this before asking for it. There are places where the note they asked for wouldn’t matter at all if something went wrong and the employee sued.
posted by sallybrown at 11:38 AM on March 28, 2019 [12 favorites]
They’re not worried about the health of the pregnant employee, they’re worried about getting sued in the event the employee is injured in some way in the course of performing work for the company. But as many have pointed out, this is a complicated issue legally (and probably medically, as far as getting a doctor to write this type of note!), and I wonder if HR really looked into this before asking for it. There are places where the note they asked for wouldn’t matter at all if something went wrong and the employee sued.
posted by sallybrown at 11:38 AM on March 28, 2019 [12 favorites]
I absolutely see something extremely wrong with it, FWIW. Pregnancy is not an excuse to treat women like children who are incapable of making their own decisions about what's best for themselves and their unborn children. I'd be livid.
In some countries, like Germany, there are laws to protect mother and unborn child (Mutterschutzgesetz). Pregnant women are by law not allowed to do certain jobs or aspects of jobs, even if they want to. The employer as "duty of care" and has to make sure these laws are obeyed.
Depending on where the OP lives, there might actually be laws in place that her employer is trying to obey.
posted by amf at 11:41 AM on March 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
In some countries, like Germany, there are laws to protect mother and unborn child (Mutterschutzgesetz). Pregnant women are by law not allowed to do certain jobs or aspects of jobs, even if they want to. The employer as "duty of care" and has to make sure these laws are obeyed.
Depending on where the OP lives, there might actually be laws in place that her employer is trying to obey.
posted by amf at 11:41 AM on March 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I asked them to show me the policy where it stated that they needed a doctor's note to approve my trip and they walked back their request right away stating that they do not need a doctor's note to approve the trip and that the request was more of a suggestion for "the baby's safety". So, I think it's all been resolved. The country where I live/work doesn't have any sort of law to protect mother and unborn child. I think it was just an HR person trying to be "helpful" and also nosy.
posted by Lingasol at 12:11 PM on March 28, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Lingasol at 12:11 PM on March 28, 2019 [6 favorites]
Barf. They’re trying to cover the company a$$ that’s what. Good for you.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:37 PM on March 28, 2019
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:37 PM on March 28, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by brainmouse at 9:10 AM on March 28, 2019