Chiropratic without the neck adjustments and crystals
March 26, 2019 1:22 PM Subscribe
My partner went to the chiropractor for the first time in years yesterday. Afterwards, we dug into it a little more and found the warnings about neck adjustments and the state of the science about it in general. They have another appointment scheduled for tomorrow. We've agreed not to let the chiro adjust their neck anymore, but should they keep going for back adjustments? What about massage/TENS/roller tables?
My partner has had chronic neck and lower back pain since a car accident at 16 (they're 24 now). After the accident they were in physical therapy for a while, but eventually the physical therapist basically said "this is as good as you're going to get, keep doing the exercises." They have been doing exercises/stretches pretty regularly for most of their life, but still have back pain that interferes with their day-to-day life, and it seems like it's gotten somewhat (but not significantly) worse over the last year. Yesterday, my MIL convinced them to get an appointment for that day and come with her to the chiro.
My partner had a really good experience--the doctor was extremely nice and validating, praising them for getting 30 minutes of exercise 3x a week and for having their goal be general health and wellness rather than losing weight (whereas MDs have told them they need to exercise more often and more rigorously because they need to lose weight, despite that not being their goal). He was very careful and always asked if x was okay, and checked in frequently to make sure what he was doing wasn't hurting. He adjusted their neck and back, and told them to come back on Wednesday but said if they were sore after that first adjustment he would reduce or not do adjustments until they've recovered. My partner also felt safe and comfortable with him touching their body, which is huge because they generally don't experience that with their doctors (this chiro is an active domestic violence advocate in his personal life, and I think that comes through in his interactions with feminine-presenting people). So overall my partner felt like it was a really good experience.
Completely coincidentally, this is the chiropractor my mother took me to for years (and has used herself for years) when I was a teenager with scoliosis. I felt like it was helpful, but I haven't been back since leaving home because my back pain is tolerable and I'm lazy and hate making appointments. My mother swears by him, and my MIL has only been seeing him for a week and says 90% of her pain is gone. He seems scientific and professional--he doesn't claim that chiropractic can solve all sorts of things, doesn't peddle supplements or crystals or whatever, and utilizes diagnostic tests like CT scans, x-rays, etc. (I definitely had x-rays done when I was seen there, I'm not sure my partner got an x-ray on this visit though).
But. I remembered the responses to this question about not letting the chiro touch your neck, and started researching it more. We've now come to the conclusion that they definitely shouldn't let him adjust their neck (though they described a gentle "pulling" that he did without a twist, and says that they'll probably let him do that, but won't let him do the neck cracking twist thing). But we're not sure if they should keep getting back adjustments.
I've read all the chiropractor threads on Metafilter, and am definitely skeptical--but I also know that a lot of people have found them helpful and found significant relief from years long problems other doctors didn't help with. I wouldn't want to turn my partner off from something that might really help without good reason (especially because I have a lot of health-related anxiety that I'm working on tempering). The science seems to suggest it can be helpful for people with lower back pain and neck pain, though not more so than other treatments. But if they tried to go with another method they'd have to go through the process of finding a good doctor who doesn't just go "eh, good as you're gonna get," vs seemingly already having found a doctor that actually listens and respects them. They're on state insurance so it costs the same as a physical therapist or MD visit. Are there risks to getting just the back adjustments that should make them lean towards trying something else? My experience with this chiro suggests if they say they don't want neck adjustments he'll respect that, so I'm not worried about him pressuring them into it.
If they shouldn't get back adjustments, this practice also has licensed massage therapists, TENS units, and roller tables. Are those helpful? Should they continue to go and just use those services without getting adjustments?
My partner has had chronic neck and lower back pain since a car accident at 16 (they're 24 now). After the accident they were in physical therapy for a while, but eventually the physical therapist basically said "this is as good as you're going to get, keep doing the exercises." They have been doing exercises/stretches pretty regularly for most of their life, but still have back pain that interferes with their day-to-day life, and it seems like it's gotten somewhat (but not significantly) worse over the last year. Yesterday, my MIL convinced them to get an appointment for that day and come with her to the chiro.
My partner had a really good experience--the doctor was extremely nice and validating, praising them for getting 30 minutes of exercise 3x a week and for having their goal be general health and wellness rather than losing weight (whereas MDs have told them they need to exercise more often and more rigorously because they need to lose weight, despite that not being their goal). He was very careful and always asked if x was okay, and checked in frequently to make sure what he was doing wasn't hurting. He adjusted their neck and back, and told them to come back on Wednesday but said if they were sore after that first adjustment he would reduce or not do adjustments until they've recovered. My partner also felt safe and comfortable with him touching their body, which is huge because they generally don't experience that with their doctors (this chiro is an active domestic violence advocate in his personal life, and I think that comes through in his interactions with feminine-presenting people). So overall my partner felt like it was a really good experience.
Completely coincidentally, this is the chiropractor my mother took me to for years (and has used herself for years) when I was a teenager with scoliosis. I felt like it was helpful, but I haven't been back since leaving home because my back pain is tolerable and I'm lazy and hate making appointments. My mother swears by him, and my MIL has only been seeing him for a week and says 90% of her pain is gone. He seems scientific and professional--he doesn't claim that chiropractic can solve all sorts of things, doesn't peddle supplements or crystals or whatever, and utilizes diagnostic tests like CT scans, x-rays, etc. (I definitely had x-rays done when I was seen there, I'm not sure my partner got an x-ray on this visit though).
But. I remembered the responses to this question about not letting the chiro touch your neck, and started researching it more. We've now come to the conclusion that they definitely shouldn't let him adjust their neck (though they described a gentle "pulling" that he did without a twist, and says that they'll probably let him do that, but won't let him do the neck cracking twist thing). But we're not sure if they should keep getting back adjustments.
I've read all the chiropractor threads on Metafilter, and am definitely skeptical--but I also know that a lot of people have found them helpful and found significant relief from years long problems other doctors didn't help with. I wouldn't want to turn my partner off from something that might really help without good reason (especially because I have a lot of health-related anxiety that I'm working on tempering). The science seems to suggest it can be helpful for people with lower back pain and neck pain, though not more so than other treatments. But if they tried to go with another method they'd have to go through the process of finding a good doctor who doesn't just go "eh, good as you're gonna get," vs seemingly already having found a doctor that actually listens and respects them. They're on state insurance so it costs the same as a physical therapist or MD visit. Are there risks to getting just the back adjustments that should make them lean towards trying something else? My experience with this chiro suggests if they say they don't want neck adjustments he'll respect that, so I'm not worried about him pressuring them into it.
If they shouldn't get back adjustments, this practice also has licensed massage therapists, TENS units, and roller tables. Are those helpful? Should they continue to go and just use those services without getting adjustments?
I've had really intense neck and back pain that chiro helps a LOT with. Yes, I'm sure in inexperienced hands a twist neck crack could be awful, but I've had literally hundreds of them, and my chiropractor has performed this maneuver tens of thousands of times over the last 15 years and he hasnt hurt anyone yet (I assume a lawsuit of that nature would remove his license).
That said, it's up to you and your comfort level. The 'pulling' adjustment is really nice, and if you can get an at-home neck traction set up it's even better.
But again, use your own judgement. I hate acupuncture and wont do it, even with all the benefits my friends say it has for them.
posted by ananci at 1:44 PM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
That said, it's up to you and your comfort level. The 'pulling' adjustment is really nice, and if you can get an at-home neck traction set up it's even better.
But again, use your own judgement. I hate acupuncture and wont do it, even with all the benefits my friends say it has for them.
posted by ananci at 1:44 PM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I got my best permanent pain relief from an osteopath. And also spinal pivots.
The fact this chiro came so recommended is good. I kind of feel like some people are ancient healers with healing energy and since society doesn’t have a place for them then they become Osteos or chiros. Since he made your family feel better then I would give him a go (minus neck adjustment).
posted by catspajammies at 1:51 PM on March 26, 2019
The fact this chiro came so recommended is good. I kind of feel like some people are ancient healers with healing energy and since society doesn’t have a place for them then they become Osteos or chiros. Since he made your family feel better then I would give him a go (minus neck adjustment).
posted by catspajammies at 1:51 PM on March 26, 2019
Things to consider:
Cervical artery dissection related to chiropractic manipulation: One institution's experience.
Chiropractic manipulation of the cervical spine can produce dissections involving the cervical and cranial segments of the vertebral and carotid arteries.
Chiropractic as a profession is defined by the subluxation theory, the unfalsifiable belief that disease is caused by impaired nerve flow. No proof exists for this theory, and likely never will.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:53 PM on March 26, 2019 [16 favorites]
Cervical artery dissection related to chiropractic manipulation: One institution's experience.
Chiropractic manipulation of the cervical spine can produce dissections involving the cervical and cranial segments of the vertebral and carotid arteries.
Chiropractic as a profession is defined by the subluxation theory, the unfalsifiable belief that disease is caused by impaired nerve flow. No proof exists for this theory, and likely never will.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:53 PM on March 26, 2019 [16 favorites]
I love going to my chiropractor, but it's because she does NIMMO-Receptor Tonus Technique and mostly works on myofascial trigger points with just a tiny bit of cracking. She doesn't crack my at all neck, just my upper back, and I've felt a lot of relief from her massage technique. It sounds like your partner found a good chiro who would be completely fine with a request to not touch their neck. I would combine the chiro with a follow-up visit to a massage therapist in the practice.
posted by pumpkinlatte at 1:55 PM on March 26, 2019
posted by pumpkinlatte at 1:55 PM on March 26, 2019
I think you're letting your health-related anxiety take over, here. You've had good experiences with this chiropractor, your mother has had good experiences with this chiropractor, your mother-in-law has had good experiences with this chiropractor, and your partner has had a good experience with this chiropractor. Contrast that with a journal article detailing one case, with another chiropractor, that turned out very poorly. If the chiropractor is able to give your partner some relief, why would you intervene?
posted by DrGail at 1:58 PM on March 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by DrGail at 1:58 PM on March 26, 2019 [9 favorites]
Your partner might want to explore Alexander Technique or Feldenkreis classes. Both of these techniques help people undo patterns of sitting, standing, walking, etc that exacerbate back pain. They help people retrain their body to do regular movements in better alignment, with less effort and strain.
Your partner might want to explore these disciplines regardless of what they decide about the chiropractor.
posted by brookeb at 2:06 PM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
Your partner might want to explore these disciplines regardless of what they decide about the chiropractor.
posted by brookeb at 2:06 PM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
Chiropractic is *complete pseudoscientific BS*. If they make you feel better it's the placebo effect, or the chance result of any sort of physical therapeutic motion that would be applied by a competent PT. Sorry, that's just true. The entire thing is built on a foundation of claptrap.
My opinion, after years of studying this issue closely.
They'll claim otherwise. They'll show you their journal with its little studies, tiny little insertions of evidence-based practice, yes. But the major reviews and retrospective studies all show it's a house of cards. They don't have a correct model of the physiology of the musculo-skeletal system, let alone their once claimed argument that ALL diseases originated in misalignment of the spine.
It's no more real medicine than homeopathy or ear candling. Also, many of them just pretend to be able to read x-rays.
posted by spitbull at 2:36 PM on March 26, 2019 [19 favorites]
My opinion, after years of studying this issue closely.
They'll claim otherwise. They'll show you their journal with its little studies, tiny little insertions of evidence-based practice, yes. But the major reviews and retrospective studies all show it's a house of cards. They don't have a correct model of the physiology of the musculo-skeletal system, let alone their once claimed argument that ALL diseases originated in misalignment of the spine.
It's no more real medicine than homeopathy or ear candling. Also, many of them just pretend to be able to read x-rays.
posted by spitbull at 2:36 PM on March 26, 2019 [19 favorites]
The “science” of chiropractic, as spitbull rightly states, is complete pseudoscience. However, a lot of chiropractors that I’m aware of incorporate scientifically-tested practices such as physical-therapy exercises and therapeutic massage (using different techniques) into their practice. My recommendation would be to try to find a massage therapist in the practice who your partner similarly “clicks” with.
posted by epj at 2:46 PM on March 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by epj at 2:46 PM on March 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
Also, many of them just pretend to be able to read x-rays.
This. Don't let them x-ray you every week to "check your alignment" (ugh).
Chiropractors are NOT doctors. You should be careful with the word, so that you don't get used to thinking of this person as a doctor, or implying to other people that chiros are doctors. They're not. It's not medical care or treatment, nor is it a substitute for it. Be VERY aware of that. Regardless of what they call themselves. "Dr. Dan" is neither a doctor nor your friend.
If you approach it as massage therapy and it makes you feel better, fine -- the placebo effect is real, and your participation in the effect is worthwhile.
I'd find a good massage therapist or PT, myself. Like any other bodywork, you might need to do a bit of shopping work to find the good one.
posted by Dashy at 3:04 PM on March 26, 2019 [12 favorites]
This. Don't let them x-ray you every week to "check your alignment" (ugh).
Chiropractors are NOT doctors. You should be careful with the word, so that you don't get used to thinking of this person as a doctor, or implying to other people that chiros are doctors. They're not. It's not medical care or treatment, nor is it a substitute for it. Be VERY aware of that. Regardless of what they call themselves. "Dr. Dan" is neither a doctor nor your friend.
If you approach it as massage therapy and it makes you feel better, fine -- the placebo effect is real, and your participation in the effect is worthwhile.
I'd find a good massage therapist or PT, myself. Like any other bodywork, you might need to do a bit of shopping work to find the good one.
posted by Dashy at 3:04 PM on March 26, 2019 [12 favorites]
You have probably seen my responses on other asks about chiropractic. Full disclosure: my dad is a chiropractor, my brother is one, five of my uncles are chiros, and ten of my cousins are. My family members have been practicing for the past 35 years and none of them have caused known injuries or been sued for injuring a patient.
Chiropractors ARE doctors. Anyone who says they are not is ignorant, at best. They have to go to regular college, then they go to three years of medical school. It is a full medical school with cadaver work and everything. Chiropractors cannot prescribe medicine, but that doesn't mean they are not doctors. A standard doctor has M.D. after their name and chiropractors have D.C. which stands for "Doctor of Chiropractic." They are, by definition, by license, and legally, doctors.
Chiropractors can look at x-rays. To say that they can't is nonsense. In fact, one of my uncles invented a computer system in the 90's that allowed him to put his x-rays up on television screens in the treatment room so he could make them extra large and show his patients exactly what was causing their pain. And my dad correctly diagnosed me with scoliosis by doing an x-ray when I was little, and when I hurt my wrist in an ATV accident in junior high we took an x-ray at his clinic and learned I had a hair-line fracture.
Many chiropractors are into woo-woo pseudo-science that I completely disagree with. Crystals are a good example, and I saw a chiropractor in college who tried to make me take non-FDA-approved pills made from sheep brains and stuff. You should definitely be picky. The Palmer method is, in my opinion, a valid version of chiropractic. It focuses on the back and spine and keeping things aligned correctly. It is science-based, even if some people here say it isn't. I have personally known hundreds of my dad's patients who have found pain relief (he treats everyone from his church for free, so I went to church with many of them). You can call it the placebo effect, but I disagree.
You statistically have a higher risk of getting a severe neck injury from leaning your head back in the shampoo station in a hair salon than you do from going to a chiropractor. If your partner isn't comfortable with neck adjustment, that's fine. Any good chiropractor will understand and not do anything the patient dislikes.
Lastly: I spent my childhood using the "other" equipment in my dad's office and it was great. Ultrasound helps, the TINS units help (he calls it interferential), and the beds you lay on that roll on your back always made me feel good. I still get on those when I visit home.
posted by tacodave at 4:44 PM on March 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
Chiropractors ARE doctors. Anyone who says they are not is ignorant, at best. They have to go to regular college, then they go to three years of medical school. It is a full medical school with cadaver work and everything. Chiropractors cannot prescribe medicine, but that doesn't mean they are not doctors. A standard doctor has M.D. after their name and chiropractors have D.C. which stands for "Doctor of Chiropractic." They are, by definition, by license, and legally, doctors.
Chiropractors can look at x-rays. To say that they can't is nonsense. In fact, one of my uncles invented a computer system in the 90's that allowed him to put his x-rays up on television screens in the treatment room so he could make them extra large and show his patients exactly what was causing their pain. And my dad correctly diagnosed me with scoliosis by doing an x-ray when I was little, and when I hurt my wrist in an ATV accident in junior high we took an x-ray at his clinic and learned I had a hair-line fracture.
Many chiropractors are into woo-woo pseudo-science that I completely disagree with. Crystals are a good example, and I saw a chiropractor in college who tried to make me take non-FDA-approved pills made from sheep brains and stuff. You should definitely be picky. The Palmer method is, in my opinion, a valid version of chiropractic. It focuses on the back and spine and keeping things aligned correctly. It is science-based, even if some people here say it isn't. I have personally known hundreds of my dad's patients who have found pain relief (he treats everyone from his church for free, so I went to church with many of them). You can call it the placebo effect, but I disagree.
You statistically have a higher risk of getting a severe neck injury from leaning your head back in the shampoo station in a hair salon than you do from going to a chiropractor. If your partner isn't comfortable with neck adjustment, that's fine. Any good chiropractor will understand and not do anything the patient dislikes.
Lastly: I spent my childhood using the "other" equipment in my dad's office and it was great. Ultrasound helps, the TINS units help (he calls it interferential), and the beds you lay on that roll on your back always made me feel good. I still get on those when I visit home.
posted by tacodave at 4:44 PM on March 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
Chiropractic by itself is not a medical science of any kind. It's based on an entirely disproven pseudoscience. Some chiropractors may have training in related fields like physical therapy, but they are not doctors. They are doing a very specific type of massage/"adjustment" that, like a massage, might make you feel better, and in rare cases might kill you. They are not treating or diagnosing any kind of disease by doing "adjustments" or checking your "alignment". They are at best massage therapists with physical therapy training who are masquerading as medical doctors.
posted by runcibleshaw at 6:17 PM on March 26, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by runcibleshaw at 6:17 PM on March 26, 2019 [7 favorites]
They may be doctors in the same way that anyone with a doctorate is a doctor. They are not doctors that are licenced to practice medicine. They are, at best, effective massage and physical therapists, which can be very beneficial for some people! At worst they're dangerous quacks practising pseudoscience.
If it's helping him, I see no problem with going and leaving the neck alone, although personally I wouldn't want to support chiropractory as a discipline so would find an actual massage / physical therapist.
posted by stillnocturnal at 6:35 PM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
If it's helping him, I see no problem with going and leaving the neck alone, although personally I wouldn't want to support chiropractory as a discipline so would find an actual massage / physical therapist.
posted by stillnocturnal at 6:35 PM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
There are terrible pseudo-scientific woowoo chiropractors, and then there are actually good ones. It sounds like yours is one of the good ones. My chiro has mostly used massage, TENS, roller table, ultrasound, and lasers on me, all to good effect. He does a tiny bit of cracking at the very end, and I just go along with it, but I'm sure he'd stop if I objected. Just another bit of anecdotal evidence that not all chiropractors are weird-ass supplement pushers and body manglers.
posted by velvet_n_purrs at 1:21 PM on March 27, 2019
posted by velvet_n_purrs at 1:21 PM on March 27, 2019
Just wanted to let you know you can buy your own tens machine to use at home.
posted by SyraCarol at 9:27 PM on March 27, 2019
posted by SyraCarol at 9:27 PM on March 27, 2019
Your Chiropractor sounds like my FIL. He's been a Chiropractor for years & avoids the whohoo aspects of it and likes to deal a lot more with patient care & support aspects. It is perfectly OK to ask to not have your neck adjusted, you won't be the first person that wants to avoid it, You can also ask to have it adjusted using an activator which avoids the twisting aspects that cause the problem or again just avoid those adjustments completely.
The main problems that can occur with Chiropractic is aggravating problems, a good Chiropractor will take an xray (or want to see recent spinal xrays) to make sure that there are no underlying problems before they begin adjustments. My FIL will send patients with conditions he can't treat or might aggravate to see a GP or relevant specialist.
Anecdotally I was massively skeptical of Chiropractic treatments but married into a family with one in so sucked it up & had adjustments to keep the inlaws happy. After suffering for years from chronic ocular (weekly) migraines, regular treatments over 3 months left me pretty much migraine free if I keep tuned up every few months or so. I still only let him adjust my neck & jaw with an activator.
posted by wwax at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2019
The main problems that can occur with Chiropractic is aggravating problems, a good Chiropractor will take an xray (or want to see recent spinal xrays) to make sure that there are no underlying problems before they begin adjustments. My FIL will send patients with conditions he can't treat or might aggravate to see a GP or relevant specialist.
Anecdotally I was massively skeptical of Chiropractic treatments but married into a family with one in so sucked it up & had adjustments to keep the inlaws happy. After suffering for years from chronic ocular (weekly) migraines, regular treatments over 3 months left me pretty much migraine free if I keep tuned up every few months or so. I still only let him adjust my neck & jaw with an activator.
posted by wwax at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
They may not `cure` an issue but they definitely can improve comfort and quality of life.
YMMV and best of luck.
SandPine
posted by sandpine at 1:32 PM on March 26, 2019