Maybe I’m over-thinking it
March 26, 2019 12:18 AM Subscribe
Has anyone had experience with opposite sex friendships during the tween years?
My ten year old daughter has a close friend we’ll call Mark, who is eleven. He’s a cool kid, smart and funny, and strange In all the good ways. They usually spend Wednesday afternoons together playing video games, and they are about to start taking a pottery class together outside of school. He has come out to dinner with us on multiple occasions.
He’s been hinting at a sleepover. I don’t know if he’s talked much to his moms about it. Me and her dad have talked about it and it seems impossible but the world has changed and I thought I’d ask. If she turned out to be a lesbian, or like me, flexible, would I do anything different? Probably not. Same if one of her friends were a lesbian. We would still do sleepovers. But this is far far removed from my childhood and I need a reality check. Did you do this, if so, how? If you said no, what was your explanation? Should I ask her if she sees him as her boyfriend? She’s pretty cagey. Can this even be done?
I should note we do actively encourage friendships with boys. It night be a slight anomaly in the class.and she really likes boys as people, which I think is a tribute to her terrific father.
My ten year old daughter has a close friend we’ll call Mark, who is eleven. He’s a cool kid, smart and funny, and strange In all the good ways. They usually spend Wednesday afternoons together playing video games, and they are about to start taking a pottery class together outside of school. He has come out to dinner with us on multiple occasions.
He’s been hinting at a sleepover. I don’t know if he’s talked much to his moms about it. Me and her dad have talked about it and it seems impossible but the world has changed and I thought I’d ask. If she turned out to be a lesbian, or like me, flexible, would I do anything different? Probably not. Same if one of her friends were a lesbian. We would still do sleepovers. But this is far far removed from my childhood and I need a reality check. Did you do this, if so, how? If you said no, what was your explanation? Should I ask her if she sees him as her boyfriend? She’s pretty cagey. Can this even be done?
I should note we do actively encourage friendships with boys. It night be a slight anomaly in the class.and she really likes boys as people, which I think is a tribute to her terrific father.
My best friend in fifth and sixth grade (ages ten and eleven) was a girl who was my next door neighbor and was in my grade. Completely non-sexual, non-romantic on both sides, even though at that age i had already had crushes on girls in school. Her parents liked me but probably wouldn’t have been cool with sleepovers, but it was something that never came up.
I moved to a different neighborhood right before seventh grade. The nature of the friendship was such that i doubt we would have gotten sexually involved even if we had been neighbors through high school.
posted by D.C. at 2:18 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I moved to a different neighborhood right before seventh grade. The nature of the friendship was such that i doubt we would have gotten sexually involved even if we had been neighbors through high school.
posted by D.C. at 2:18 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
With our boys we've taken a hypervigilant don't do anything/ say anything until it seems like maybe you should.
Yeah. Both have had many sleep overs with girls/ at girls' houses in their tween years. I never did when I was their age but I also had a very different set-up back then.
If their friends seem like 'good' (not frivolously malicious) kids (and the parents have a more or less roughly covalent moral compass as we do), then yeah, they can do the sleep-over thing.
The older one had a friend we did not really like as she was manipulative at times, but before we really had to say or do anything she left the area. So, how to solve the sticky parts, we haven't had to face yet.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:21 AM on March 26, 2019
Yeah. Both have had many sleep overs with girls/ at girls' houses in their tween years. I never did when I was their age but I also had a very different set-up back then.
If their friends seem like 'good' (not frivolously malicious) kids (and the parents have a more or less roughly covalent moral compass as we do), then yeah, they can do the sleep-over thing.
The older one had a friend we did not really like as she was manipulative at times, but before we really had to say or do anything she left the area. So, how to solve the sticky parts, we haven't had to face yet.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:21 AM on March 26, 2019
(Not to abuse the edit window) - We live in different times 'morally' - where my parents worried about my behaving 'right' we worry about our kids behaving morally/compassionately. And it's not immoral to sleep over at your friend's house even though the friend is of another gender. (It's a weird knot to untangle, especially if there were lots of 'rules' growing up that were maybe arbitrary but still impactful.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:25 AM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 2:25 AM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
Maybe I'm ancient but 10 and 11 seems pretty young for shenanigans. If she's allowed sleep overs with girls then denying a sleepover with this boy is sending the message that girls and boys can't be platonic friends IMO.
When I was older than this - maybe 12 or 13 (possibly as old as 14), I had a sleepover with a couple of friends, a girl the same age as me and a boy a year older. My parents agreed to it (my friends lived across the street so we hung out all the time anyway) and between us we'd arranged that myself and the boy would take the bed and the other girl would take the sofa. Later in the evening my mum decided that was inappropriate and that the boy would have to sleep in another room. (He was fine with it because that's the room where my computer was! I think he stayed up all night playing video games haha!). It really annoyed me because our friendship was 100% platonic... no matter what the neighbors said.
He turned out to be gay, she's a lesbian and I'm bi and there was never anything more than friendship between any of us.
posted by missmagenta at 2:38 AM on March 26, 2019 [8 favorites]
When I was older than this - maybe 12 or 13 (possibly as old as 14), I had a sleepover with a couple of friends, a girl the same age as me and a boy a year older. My parents agreed to it (my friends lived across the street so we hung out all the time anyway) and between us we'd arranged that myself and the boy would take the bed and the other girl would take the sofa. Later in the evening my mum decided that was inappropriate and that the boy would have to sleep in another room. (He was fine with it because that's the room where my computer was! I think he stayed up all night playing video games haha!). It really annoyed me because our friendship was 100% platonic... no matter what the neighbors said.
He turned out to be gay, she's a lesbian and I'm bi and there was never anything more than friendship between any of us.
posted by missmagenta at 2:38 AM on March 26, 2019 [8 favorites]
I can't give parenting advice, but I can share my own similar experience. When I was eleven, my best friend was a girl my age, and we would often visit each other's houses and play video games. At one point, I asked my parents if I could invite her for a sleepover, as I had already done with some of my male friends, and they said no. I don't recall them giving much of any reason, just that it wasn't okay for boys and girls to have a sleepover together. At this time, I had no real concept of sex beyond what I had been told in school, and I certainly didn't view my friend in any kind of romantic or sexual light, so my strongest reaction was indignation that my parents thought I might assault my friend. But, in the end, I didn't take it as some fundamental injustice; it was just one setback, and I still had plenty of opportunities to socialize with my friend.
That being said, I think you should examine what specifically bothers you here. You may have concerns about boys, in the abstract, and girls, in the abstract, having a sleepover, in the abstract, but consider whether those concerns still hold in the specific scenario of Mark and your daughter sleeping over in, for example, your living room.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:59 AM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
That being said, I think you should examine what specifically bothers you here. You may have concerns about boys, in the abstract, and girls, in the abstract, having a sleepover, in the abstract, but consider whether those concerns still hold in the specific scenario of Mark and your daughter sleeping over in, for example, your living room.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:59 AM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
I attended co-ed sleepovers right through high school among my group of...half a dozen girls and 2-3 guys. We were all really good kids, our parents knew each other, and none of us ever dated each other. We dated outside our friend group but partners were never part of sleepovers. Always sleeping bags on the living room floor, always parents home. And never one on one - always a small group.
I also worked as a junior camp counsellor in high school at a co-ed camp with plenty of opportunities for mixed late night hanging out and taking kids on overnight camp outs and such.
posted by jrobin276 at 3:04 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I also worked as a junior camp counsellor in high school at a co-ed camp with plenty of opportunities for mixed late night hanging out and taking kids on overnight camp outs and such.
posted by jrobin276 at 3:04 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I had boy girl sleepovers right through high school even! In high school it wasn't usually 1-1 and yes was usually sleepovers in the lounge. Some of the kids were even boyfriend and girlfriend, there were no shenanigans, at all. We just liked hanging out with each other, and this was at 15-17 when hormones were absolutely raging!
I was basically totally presexual at eleven.
I think this really comes down to the kids. If there's a sibling or a third friend you can get involved, they may also like having extra company. My 7 year old daughter's best friend is a boy, and I hope I'm as chill with it at 11 as I am now, because she loves that kid and as someone whose closest friends are female (I'm hetero male), I hate that society is always trying to impose shenanigans on these friendships.
posted by smoke at 3:53 AM on March 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
I was basically totally presexual at eleven.
I think this really comes down to the kids. If there's a sibling or a third friend you can get involved, they may also like having extra company. My 7 year old daughter's best friend is a boy, and I hope I'm as chill with it at 11 as I am now, because she loves that kid and as someone whose closest friends are female (I'm hetero male), I hate that society is always trying to impose shenanigans on these friendships.
posted by smoke at 3:53 AM on March 26, 2019 [5 favorites]
My ten year old's best friend is a 10 year old girl and they have sleepovers regularly. They've been friends since kindergarten, so I can see how a newer friend might seem different. And it would definitely depend on the kids; these kids are not expressing a lot of pre-teen curiosity about dating, kissing, the opposite sex, etc. There might be other kids I would feel differently about.
I really think at the tween age that it's very much about the specific kids and their relationship with each other.
posted by gideonfrog at 4:09 AM on March 26, 2019
I really think at the tween age that it's very much about the specific kids and their relationship with each other.
posted by gideonfrog at 4:09 AM on March 26, 2019
When I was a tween my classmates did all the making out and boob grabbing during daylight hours and non-sleepover parties. Hormones don't suddenly become weaponized just because the sun goes down.
A sleepover in the living room (or other public family space) with children you actually talk to poses no actual threat.
posted by phunniemee at 4:58 AM on March 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
A sleepover in the living room (or other public family space) with children you actually talk to poses no actual threat.
posted by phunniemee at 4:58 AM on March 26, 2019 [3 favorites]
I definitely did. All of my friends were boys (and still are to a certain extent. I even lived in a house with mostly men in college) until puberty made that way too complicated (and everyone miserable). I had one friend in particular between the ages of 7-12 that I was very close to and our time was spent playing video games and exploring. I recall a few weekend sleep overs that were completely fine and mostly involved movies and an awesome breakfast followed by more video games and exploring. I do recall that the parents were involved in checking in on us regularly but also very respectful, didn't act suspicious of us, and didn't make it seem like we were being watched, if that makes sense. Then again I was odd and a late bloomer.
I'm not a parent but it seems like it's something that should be discussed between you and her friend's parents. They know their kid, you know yours, you might be able to figure out together whether this is platonic or if one or the other has a crush.
posted by Young Kullervo at 4:58 AM on March 26, 2019
I'm not a parent but it seems like it's something that should be discussed between you and her friend's parents. They know their kid, you know yours, you might be able to figure out together whether this is platonic or if one or the other has a crush.
posted by Young Kullervo at 4:58 AM on March 26, 2019
Interesting. My impulse would be no, not necessarily because of the boy/girl thing, but because I'm a lot more suspicious of sleepovers in general than my parents were. A lot of people who have had any professional contact with child sexual abuse (as lawyers, social workers, school employees, etc.) don't allow their kids any sleepovers any more. I'm not sure I'd NEVER allow a sleepover, but I'd be hella reluctant, knowing everything I now know. But I seem to be in the minority!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:19 AM on March 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:19 AM on March 26, 2019 [6 favorites]
Eyebrows McGee, is the concern that the children will abuse one another or that the adults of the sleepover house? I think in this situation it would be safe to assume the OP and her husband are not risks for that?
posted by GoblinHoney at 7:38 AM on March 26, 2019
posted by GoblinHoney at 7:38 AM on March 26, 2019
My 12 year old son's best friend is a girl. They've known each other since they were three months old, so they've never known life without each other. We are very good friends with her parents, I know their parenting style and level of permissiveness, and they mine. I would be okay with a sleepover, but I suspect her parents would not be, and that's okay.
That said, if they did have a sleepover at my house, I would have them sleep in the living room, or have her sleep in the twin bed in the office rather than together in his room. Because yes, 12 is young, but it's not that young.
posted by lyssabee at 7:41 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
That said, if they did have a sleepover at my house, I would have them sleep in the living room, or have her sleep in the twin bed in the office rather than together in his room. Because yes, 12 is young, but it's not that young.
posted by lyssabee at 7:41 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
You say Mark has been hinting at it, but what does your daughter think?
I have always had male friends (I am a mostly straight woman) and even at that age I had some friends who I knew liked me "that way" as I would say then and who I would not want to have sleep over. So I would trust your daughter on this. If you are not having open, non-judgmental, listening-focused conversations about boys and girls with your daughter now is definitely the age to start. I never could have those conversations with my parents without feeling judged for my feelings and I had to navigate this world on my own. It was lonely.
posted by muddgirl at 8:23 AM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
I have always had male friends (I am a mostly straight woman) and even at that age I had some friends who I knew liked me "that way" as I would say then and who I would not want to have sleep over. So I would trust your daughter on this. If you are not having open, non-judgmental, listening-focused conversations about boys and girls with your daughter now is definitely the age to start. I never could have those conversations with my parents without feeling judged for my feelings and I had to navigate this world on my own. It was lonely.
posted by muddgirl at 8:23 AM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
This is terrible, but at that age, having already gotten my period (but not yet having developed an interest in boys) a mixed-gender sleepover would be an absolute no-go. The rule was "don't let no (sic) boys touch you".
I wouldn't necessarily raise my own children this way, and TBH it was annoying to be treated as though I couldn't read the room WRT my friendships or that I was incapable of sexual agency (as well as the underlying assumption that all boys are first and foremost potentially predators), but that is how some parents of some cultures operate.
posted by blerghamot at 9:27 AM on March 26, 2019
I wouldn't necessarily raise my own children this way, and TBH it was annoying to be treated as though I couldn't read the room WRT my friendships or that I was incapable of sexual agency (as well as the underlying assumption that all boys are first and foremost potentially predators), but that is how some parents of some cultures operate.
posted by blerghamot at 9:27 AM on March 26, 2019
How long have they been friends and what does your daughter think about it? Ask her when Mark isn't around. Sound out the parents, too.
There are kids for whom this would be totally 100% fine no problem and others where it'd probably get weird and be not a great idea even if the kids generally get along fine as platonic friends otherwise. There's just so much stuff kids can not be entirely on the same page about at that age, y'know?
I'd say if everybody has a good gut check on this then give it a shot, but they sleep in the living room with the knowledge that you might pop out and say hi at multiple random points during the night.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:43 AM on March 26, 2019
There are kids for whom this would be totally 100% fine no problem and others where it'd probably get weird and be not a great idea even if the kids generally get along fine as platonic friends otherwise. There's just so much stuff kids can not be entirely on the same page about at that age, y'know?
I'd say if everybody has a good gut check on this then give it a shot, but they sleep in the living room with the knowledge that you might pop out and say hi at multiple random points during the night.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:43 AM on March 26, 2019
I have 10 and 13yo sons. They both have had sleepovers with girls, and birthday parties that involved girls/boys. Only this year was my 13yo drawing the line at doing sleepovers at girls' houses, so i respected that. My 10yo is still happy with one of his girl BFFs (who he has known since kindergarten) and him doing sleepovers in the treehouse. I think, that at 10, they are still exploring who they are, and at this age, in elementary school, let them take the lead.
For your child, if *she* is ok with the idea, than I would take her lead.
posted by alathia at 11:54 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
For your child, if *she* is ok with the idea, than I would take her lead.
posted by alathia at 11:54 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
For my family I would probably say no if I felt uncomfortable about it, for ANY reason. Even if that reason is deep down from the stone age and not with the current times. My sleep overs from 13 and on were pretty rebellious affairs and before that I think sleep overs were unnecessary... nobody slept well and the kids missed their parents. Maybe I will change my mind when my kids are older but I think I'd rather do a late pick up (like many of my other friends did) You should do what you are happy to do.
posted by catspajammies at 1:22 PM on March 26, 2019
posted by catspajammies at 1:22 PM on March 26, 2019
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