Divorce with someone who will try to hurt me
February 28, 2019 7:34 AM Subscribe
Hi everyone, I'm so sorry to be asking this question. I'm seriously considering divorcing my husband. We have an 8 month old and I'm worried that he will try to keep our baby from me.
I will keep this as short as I can. Our relationship has been poor since I got pregnant 1.5 years ago. I had hyperemesis and it was a bad time for us. Since then it has all gone downhill. I know relationships suffer after the birth of a baby but this is worse.
He gaslights me - he works seasonally and is off work right now. I work 24-36 hours a week. He recently told me that I haven't lifted a finger to help in the last two years which is just...no. He gets really mad when I assert myself and tell him he's being unreasonable. He's told me that my "name in this house is bitch." He tries to get me to think that I am mentally ill and he takes the baby when we are fighting and says that he doesn't trust me with him. I think this is him manipulating me because he knows I would never ever hurt our baby. When we are fighting he records me on his phone because he wants a record of how crazy I am. He says the police would never believe what I'm saying because I have a history of mental illness (moderate depression/anxiety, very well-controlled with my current meds.)
He has a severe trauma past. We tried counseling and every time I would bring up something remotely critical he walked out.
I can't do this anymore. I think he really doesn't understand what emotional abuse is because when I tell him he is doing exactly that he gets livid and screams at me. But I'm really worried that if I try to leave him he will take the baby and say that I am emotionally unstable.
I don't know what to do. I'm looking up divorce attorneys in my area. I'm so scared that if I tell him I want to divorce or even just seperate he will grab the baby and leave. How should I go about this?
Anonymous contact email: anonymousdivorce123@gmail.com
I will keep this as short as I can. Our relationship has been poor since I got pregnant 1.5 years ago. I had hyperemesis and it was a bad time for us. Since then it has all gone downhill. I know relationships suffer after the birth of a baby but this is worse.
He gaslights me - he works seasonally and is off work right now. I work 24-36 hours a week. He recently told me that I haven't lifted a finger to help in the last two years which is just...no. He gets really mad when I assert myself and tell him he's being unreasonable. He's told me that my "name in this house is bitch." He tries to get me to think that I am mentally ill and he takes the baby when we are fighting and says that he doesn't trust me with him. I think this is him manipulating me because he knows I would never ever hurt our baby. When we are fighting he records me on his phone because he wants a record of how crazy I am. He says the police would never believe what I'm saying because I have a history of mental illness (moderate depression/anxiety, very well-controlled with my current meds.)
He has a severe trauma past. We tried counseling and every time I would bring up something remotely critical he walked out.
I can't do this anymore. I think he really doesn't understand what emotional abuse is because when I tell him he is doing exactly that he gets livid and screams at me. But I'm really worried that if I try to leave him he will take the baby and say that I am emotionally unstable.
I don't know what to do. I'm looking up divorce attorneys in my area. I'm so scared that if I tell him I want to divorce or even just seperate he will grab the baby and leave. How should I go about this?
Anonymous contact email: anonymousdivorce123@gmail.com
PLEASE be careful with your search history and call history. Assume that he can find whatever you do. If you need to write something down, do it in code. If someone needs to call you about your preparations, tell them to ask for a different name, so he will think it's a wrong number call.
I'd suggest first making this post anonymous; you can mail the mods to do so.
posted by fiercecupcake at 7:52 AM on February 28, 2019 [28 favorites]
I'd suggest first making this post anonymous; you can mail the mods to do so.
posted by fiercecupcake at 7:52 AM on February 28, 2019 [28 favorites]
I don't claim to know much about this situation, but if I were you, what I'd do is to take the baby and leave first, then call him and tell him you left. You don't have to worry about him taking the baby this way, and you also avoid a potentially explosive confrontation with him. He'll tell you you're a coward for not talking to him in person, but you should ignore that, because it's just more emotional abuse. (This after all the preparation the other comments have mentioned.) Best wishes.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:58 AM on February 28, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 7:58 AM on February 28, 2019 [8 favorites]
Yes, fiercecupcake's suggestion to get this anonymized is a good one. He has time on his hands right now to dig up stuff online, especially if you share any devices. Or he could try to destroy your devices if he thinks you're sharing stuff that reflects badly on him. (I know someone whose partner ran over her laptop for that reason.)
I also second bilabial re: recording your daily life. In most states, you are entitled to record your phone or in-person conversations with another person without that person's permission. The exceptions are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington state.
I'm going to memail you with some other resources. I'll be thinking of you and your son.
posted by virago at 8:18 AM on February 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
I also second bilabial re: recording your daily life. In most states, you are entitled to record your phone or in-person conversations with another person without that person's permission. The exceptions are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington state.
I'm going to memail you with some other resources. I'll be thinking of you and your son.
posted by virago at 8:18 AM on February 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
Wipe your entire browser history/cookies/passwords, right now. Get a new Gmail address that's not connected to you otherwise; open it from somewhere like a library or an Apple store, in case he's got keylogging software on your current phone/home computer. Get a burner prepaid phone you can use for everything related to getting out and don't ever let him even know you have it. (Set it to absolute silence so he never hears it going off.) Get a separate credit card without his name on it. If you can, open up a separate checking account without telling him.
On a less logistical level, I agree that the two most important steps are to contact an attorney and a domestic violence hotline. Take the DV people's advice, but if it were me, I would not tell him in person. I would tell him after I'd physically left the house, with the baby.
He's telling you lies because he knows that reality supports you, not him, so he can only control you if he gets you to believe things that aren't true. Good luck to you.
posted by praemunire at 8:18 AM on February 28, 2019 [26 favorites]
On a less logistical level, I agree that the two most important steps are to contact an attorney and a domestic violence hotline. Take the DV people's advice, but if it were me, I would not tell him in person. I would tell him after I'd physically left the house, with the baby.
He's telling you lies because he knows that reality supports you, not him, so he can only control you if he gets you to believe things that aren't true. Good luck to you.
posted by praemunire at 8:18 AM on February 28, 2019 [26 favorites]
Be very, very careful about your interactions with him if he is recording. Do not raise your voice, do not cry, do not get angry, do not accuse him.
I wish this were not the case, but CPS and the courts absolutely will use recordings against you if you have a history of mental illness, and their standard absolutely can be "you have a history of mental illness and here is a recording of you crying". This is lived experience of someone I actually know.
Also be very, very careful in getting a lawyer. If there is anyone local or any mefite who can make a family law recommendation, lean on them. If there is a women's shelter who can make recommendations, use that.
Be wary of lawyers who usually work with rich clients if you are not rich - they will not understand your life or your needs, and they may be biased against you. Be wary of lawyers who promote themselves as seeking reconciliation between parents - they may be unwilling to believe that you are being abused because they have a narrative of "both sides are wrong, we need to meet in the middle". When interviewing your lawyer, ask them explicitly about how they relate to their peers - you can easily end up with a lawyer who is literally friends with your ex's lawyer and who will not maintain confidentiality, especially if they are seeking "reconciliation". It is important to google your lawyer and see who their connections are - see what they say on Facebook, etc. You may discover that they have terrible views or lunch regularly with your ex's lawyer. Do not assume that because you are paying your lawyer, they are on your side.
Be very, very careful. I cannot express how much I wish this were not the case, and I hate to alarm you, but these are things that would have been useful for my friend to know before everything started.
posted by Frowner at 8:26 AM on February 28, 2019 [20 favorites]
I wish this were not the case, but CPS and the courts absolutely will use recordings against you if you have a history of mental illness, and their standard absolutely can be "you have a history of mental illness and here is a recording of you crying". This is lived experience of someone I actually know.
Also be very, very careful in getting a lawyer. If there is anyone local or any mefite who can make a family law recommendation, lean on them. If there is a women's shelter who can make recommendations, use that.
Be wary of lawyers who usually work with rich clients if you are not rich - they will not understand your life or your needs, and they may be biased against you. Be wary of lawyers who promote themselves as seeking reconciliation between parents - they may be unwilling to believe that you are being abused because they have a narrative of "both sides are wrong, we need to meet in the middle". When interviewing your lawyer, ask them explicitly about how they relate to their peers - you can easily end up with a lawyer who is literally friends with your ex's lawyer and who will not maintain confidentiality, especially if they are seeking "reconciliation". It is important to google your lawyer and see who their connections are - see what they say on Facebook, etc. You may discover that they have terrible views or lunch regularly with your ex's lawyer. Do not assume that because you are paying your lawyer, they are on your side.
Be very, very careful. I cannot express how much I wish this were not the case, and I hate to alarm you, but these are things that would have been useful for my friend to know before everything started.
posted by Frowner at 8:26 AM on February 28, 2019 [20 favorites]
I once heard that in some states if you leave the house and live elsewhere, this has future legal repercussions about who legally owns the home. True? I hope not, but I really have no idea. I just mention this to show how out of depth anyone can be regarding the law, and how you should best handle this. You really, really need to talk with a lawyer before you do anything.
So.... Hang in there. Talk to a lawyer. Get copies of all your and his financial documents. Collect any information you have that shows the relationship is abusive. The lawyer will help you figure out what you need.
posted by xammerboy at 8:37 AM on February 28, 2019
So.... Hang in there. Talk to a lawyer. Get copies of all your and his financial documents. Collect any information you have that shows the relationship is abusive. The lawyer will help you figure out what you need.
posted by xammerboy at 8:37 AM on February 28, 2019
So very sorry you are going through this. A few strategic things to do:
1. Program your phone with the number to a domestic violence hotline. Label it something innocuous, but under the letter A, like AAA Towing or something.
2. CALL the domestic violence hotline today to ask them what resources are available to you if things get violent or if your husband tries to take the baby. Ask them what your rights are to taking your child out of the family home. Ask them if those rights are usually respected in your area. Different states (and cities) have different laws, but also different attitudes to DV. In my city I was told that police were trained in DV issues and would be very much on the side of the person calling and focused on providing safety. That's not true in all places.
3. What kind of protected access do you have to money? If you don't have a personal account, then I recommend beginning to set aside some cash for yourself in case of emergency. Enough for a few nights of a basic hotel or rental car. To avoid drawing attention to these withdrawals, an idea is to get cash back at the grocery store in gradually increasing amounts. Keep this cash off site, with a friend, in a car, etc.
4. Get a private device/phone. Use this for private email and conversations to lawyers. Scope out convenient places where you can get access to wi-fi instead of using it at home.
5. If I were you, I would not do anything to aggravate your husband into acting precipitously. That includes telling him you're taping conversations or planning to take your child with you. If you leave, leave quietly, leave a note (take a photo of it), and leave when he's not there. But only once you know your rights to do so.
6. Be very aware that in many places and for many courts, leaving your home with your baby may be construed as you abandoning the home, which can make it difficult for you to advocate that your husband move out so you can return to it. It may also position your home, if it's a shared resource, as less of an asset for you in a divorce, though that is dependent on where you live and the diverse attitudes of family judges.
7. Get word of mouth recommendations for lawyers from people in similar situations to yours. That can be uncomfortable information to ask about or volunteer with friends, etc. but you can also ask potential lawyers for references for you to talk to.
posted by cocoagirl at 8:38 AM on February 28, 2019 [8 favorites]
1. Program your phone with the number to a domestic violence hotline. Label it something innocuous, but under the letter A, like AAA Towing or something.
2. CALL the domestic violence hotline today to ask them what resources are available to you if things get violent or if your husband tries to take the baby. Ask them what your rights are to taking your child out of the family home. Ask them if those rights are usually respected in your area. Different states (and cities) have different laws, but also different attitudes to DV. In my city I was told that police were trained in DV issues and would be very much on the side of the person calling and focused on providing safety. That's not true in all places.
3. What kind of protected access do you have to money? If you don't have a personal account, then I recommend beginning to set aside some cash for yourself in case of emergency. Enough for a few nights of a basic hotel or rental car. To avoid drawing attention to these withdrawals, an idea is to get cash back at the grocery store in gradually increasing amounts. Keep this cash off site, with a friend, in a car, etc.
4. Get a private device/phone. Use this for private email and conversations to lawyers. Scope out convenient places where you can get access to wi-fi instead of using it at home.
5. If I were you, I would not do anything to aggravate your husband into acting precipitously. That includes telling him you're taping conversations or planning to take your child with you. If you leave, leave quietly, leave a note (take a photo of it), and leave when he's not there. But only once you know your rights to do so.
6. Be very aware that in many places and for many courts, leaving your home with your baby may be construed as you abandoning the home, which can make it difficult for you to advocate that your husband move out so you can return to it. It may also position your home, if it's a shared resource, as less of an asset for you in a divorce, though that is dependent on where you live and the diverse attitudes of family judges.
7. Get word of mouth recommendations for lawyers from people in similar situations to yours. That can be uncomfortable information to ask about or volunteer with friends, etc. but you can also ask potential lawyers for references for you to talk to.
posted by cocoagirl at 8:38 AM on February 28, 2019 [8 favorites]
(Also, just some general advice: This will probably be the hardest thing you ever do. You may feel like you can't do it sometimes. You may reach lows you didn't even know were down there. But one day? The sun will seem extra bright. You will be able to breathe again. It may still be hard, but you will feel that the earth can hold you up. And after that? One day this can be a memory that you don't even think of every day. It may seem totally ludicrous now and you may have to take it on faith. I wish you all the strength you need.)
posted by fiercecupcake at 8:58 AM on February 28, 2019 [23 favorites]
posted by fiercecupcake at 8:58 AM on February 28, 2019 [23 favorites]
Do not take the baby and leave without talking to a lawyer first. That can hurt you in custody situations and he can accuse you of kidnapping if you take the child elsewhere without court approval.
I went through a really rough postpartum period and had similar accusations made against me so I did some research. Courts are wary of mental health accusations because it Is such a common tactic used in divorce/custody matters. History of treatment for depression where you're compliant with professional recommendations also would trump walking out of sessions and having a history of trauma without any kind of treatment.
Do your best to not yell at him, no matter what he does. Do what you can for self care. If he takes the baby, you can also accuse him of kidnapping.
In my state I would have had to get my spouse to sign off on me relocating with our child without him, but he could have moved without us.
I hate to say this but walk on eggshells. Do not criticize him, do not try to win any arguments at all. If you feel that you need to get out, be businesslike and focus on your goal and do not make waves in the meantime.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:10 AM on February 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
I went through a really rough postpartum period and had similar accusations made against me so I did some research. Courts are wary of mental health accusations because it Is such a common tactic used in divorce/custody matters. History of treatment for depression where you're compliant with professional recommendations also would trump walking out of sessions and having a history of trauma without any kind of treatment.
Do your best to not yell at him, no matter what he does. Do what you can for self care. If he takes the baby, you can also accuse him of kidnapping.
In my state I would have had to get my spouse to sign off on me relocating with our child without him, but he could have moved without us.
I hate to say this but walk on eggshells. Do not criticize him, do not try to win any arguments at all. If you feel that you need to get out, be businesslike and focus on your goal and do not make waves in the meantime.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:10 AM on February 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
If you have somewhere safe to keep it keep a notebook of all your interactions with him, if your phone is secure & locked you can keep it on their with a boring name like recipes or something. Note time, date, rough idea of what was said, note when he is recording & when he's not. Keep it as impartial sounding as possible. You need to start gathering your own evidence if it is safe to do so, it will also stop him from twisting facts & gaslighting you for your own sanity. You know what you said & when, don't use this in arguments with him, you don't want to give him fuel for a fight or let him know you're keeping track, this is evidence for your lawyer & a judge. This is to help you when you have to testify. Evidence is your friend, it's why he's recording to fake evidence, keeping a book with the full picture in not the selected highlights he will want to show the judges will help. Keep all messages, texts, phone records too.
Do you have friends & family you can get in touch with, even if you don't tell them why, don't let him keep you isolated, build your safety net.
Grey rock him as much as possible. Give him nothing to dig at to get a reaction, nothing he can use against you. Be polite, share nothing personal, never let him know he's got to you, be a calm little duck on the surface while you're paddling away underneath. Don't tell him what he's doing is emotional abuse, don't confront him about what he's doing, it sucks but you have to let it all appear to slide off your back at least on the outside. Be calm, be boring, give him nothing to use against you. Every single word that comes out of your mouth to him from now on must be spoken with the idea it might be used against you, give him nothing to use as much as possible. It sucks, it's hard & you will slip up it's OK just do the best you can.
If you have somewhere safe, he can't find to keep cash then do that too, skim a little out of the housekeeping whatever it takes.
As others have said you also need to get a good reliable lawyer & then listen to what they say to do, also to get into contact with abuse hotline/service, they may well be able to recommend a lawyer.
posted by wwax at 9:34 AM on February 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
Do you have friends & family you can get in touch with, even if you don't tell them why, don't let him keep you isolated, build your safety net.
Grey rock him as much as possible. Give him nothing to dig at to get a reaction, nothing he can use against you. Be polite, share nothing personal, never let him know he's got to you, be a calm little duck on the surface while you're paddling away underneath. Don't tell him what he's doing is emotional abuse, don't confront him about what he's doing, it sucks but you have to let it all appear to slide off your back at least on the outside. Be calm, be boring, give him nothing to use against you. Every single word that comes out of your mouth to him from now on must be spoken with the idea it might be used against you, give him nothing to use as much as possible. It sucks, it's hard & you will slip up it's OK just do the best you can.
If you have somewhere safe, he can't find to keep cash then do that too, skim a little out of the housekeeping whatever it takes.
As others have said you also need to get a good reliable lawyer & then listen to what they say to do, also to get into contact with abuse hotline/service, they may well be able to recommend a lawyer.
posted by wwax at 9:34 AM on February 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
Please please try to work with a local domestic violence organization. I've known people who've tried to leave dangerous/fraught situations without that assistance and ones who did, and the ones who did were plugged into the kind of local resources that are just very hard to access or coordinate on your own (and even a great lawyer isn't going to have the time or resources to make that happen) and that support has made a real difference.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:35 AM on February 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 9:35 AM on February 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
Change the password on your phone. If you don't have one set, set one. Then use your phone to change the rest of your passwords. Stash some cash and add to it if you can. If you have your own car, make/stash a spare car key in case he takes your keys.
Good luck. I had to run mine over with the car to get away. Don't let his inevitable apologies and grovelling make you take him back. It's all an act to control you.
posted by irisclara at 9:37 AM on February 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
Good luck. I had to run mine over with the car to get away. Don't let his inevitable apologies and grovelling make you take him back. It's all an act to control you.
posted by irisclara at 9:37 AM on February 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
Do not take the baby and leave without talking to a lawyer first. That can hurt you in custody situations and he can accuse you of kidnapping if you take the child elsewhere without court approval.
Unfortunately, sometimes immediate physical safety takes precedence over these concerns. OP obviously cannot leave the baby behind if she has to go. And the husband sounds high-risk for abducting the child himself. Horrible to say, but it's easier to deal with a bogus abduction claim than to rise from the grave. OP should take the advice of experienced DV counselors over any of us, for sure, but even as a lawyer I think there are times when getting the right facts on the ground are more important than future legal considerations.
posted by praemunire at 9:43 AM on February 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
Unfortunately, sometimes immediate physical safety takes precedence over these concerns. OP obviously cannot leave the baby behind if she has to go. And the husband sounds high-risk for abducting the child himself. Horrible to say, but it's easier to deal with a bogus abduction claim than to rise from the grave. OP should take the advice of experienced DV counselors over any of us, for sure, but even as a lawyer I think there are times when getting the right facts on the ground are more important than future legal considerations.
posted by praemunire at 9:43 AM on February 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
"Unfortunately, sometimes immediate physical safety takes precedence over these concerns."
I agree completely. OP seems to be describing emotional abuse rather than physical abuse. So physical safety was not a factor in my response. Yes, abuse can escalate. But if she leaves without any physical threat, depending on local laws it may actually fuel her husband's ability to take the child from her in the long run. I just wanted her to know that aspect.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:58 AM on February 28, 2019
I agree completely. OP seems to be describing emotional abuse rather than physical abuse. So physical safety was not a factor in my response. Yes, abuse can escalate. But if she leaves without any physical threat, depending on local laws it may actually fuel her husband's ability to take the child from her in the long run. I just wanted her to know that aspect.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:58 AM on February 28, 2019
I'm so scared that if I tell him I want to divorce or even just seperate he will grab the baby and leave. How should I go about this?
You can contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) for confidential and free assistance with safety planning your exit. The hotline is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for confidential crisis intervention, safety planning, information and referrals to agencies in all 50 states, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands. Hotline operators are specially trained and can provide resources, help with options to stay safe or just listen. Local organizations may be able to help with finding free or low-cost legal assistance and may have legal advocates available to help with court paperwork and navigating the court process. (via the MeFi Wiki Get a Lawyer page)
posted by Little Dawn at 10:07 AM on February 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
You can contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) for confidential and free assistance with safety planning your exit. The hotline is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for confidential crisis intervention, safety planning, information and referrals to agencies in all 50 states, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands. Hotline operators are specially trained and can provide resources, help with options to stay safe or just listen. Local organizations may be able to help with finding free or low-cost legal assistance and may have legal advocates available to help with court paperwork and navigating the court process. (via the MeFi Wiki Get a Lawyer page)
posted by Little Dawn at 10:07 AM on February 28, 2019 [4 favorites]
Leaving is the MOST dangerous time for domestic violence escalation. It is safer to assume that he is capable of such a thing, since he has already shown his true colors. Above all, OP, use your gut. I agree that "kidnapping" the child is not a good look for future legal proceedings, but safety is the number 1 issue here. Be very wary of anyone who wants to come at this from a place of "mediation" or "counseling" or that both partners need to take responsibility or that he needs anger management -- these people will not be your ally in a DV situation.
If you can, get hold of Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That? (it also applies to women abusers). There is a lot of good survival advice in there. You can find a PDF online as well so that you don't need to worry about having a physical copy he can find or an Amazon order. (I did this, then I bought the book when it was safe to do so. No shame whatsoever.)
posted by fiercecupcake at 10:08 AM on February 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
If you can, get hold of Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That? (it also applies to women abusers). There is a lot of good survival advice in there. You can find a PDF online as well so that you don't need to worry about having a physical copy he can find or an Amazon order. (I did this, then I bought the book when it was safe to do so. No shame whatsoever.)
posted by fiercecupcake at 10:08 AM on February 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
he takes the baby when we are fighting and says that he doesn't trust me with him
Sounds like he's already escalating physically, unfortunately.
posted by praemunire at 10:22 AM on February 28, 2019 [6 favorites]
Sounds like he's already escalating physically, unfortunately.
posted by praemunire at 10:22 AM on February 28, 2019 [6 favorites]
Here's a better link for the National Domestic Violence Hotline. And to be clear, threatening to kidnap your child is abuse. Recording you in the way you describe is abuse, and it is a record of his abuse. You are right to be concerned about what might happen after you tell him you are leaving, because it sounds like he is working hard to bully you into staying, and leaving can be the most dangerous time.
Moderate depression/anxiety that is well-controlled with current meds is unlikely to serve as grounds to deprive you of custody of your child. An underemployed, unstable abuser who has engaged in a campaign of harassment and threats against the mother of their child is much more likely to have a problem convincing the court that they are capable of protecting the child's best interest. That being said, laws vary by jurisdiction and YMMV, and I hope you can find a lawyer as quickly as possible.
posted by Little Dawn at 10:40 AM on February 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
Moderate depression/anxiety that is well-controlled with current meds is unlikely to serve as grounds to deprive you of custody of your child. An underemployed, unstable abuser who has engaged in a campaign of harassment and threats against the mother of their child is much more likely to have a problem convincing the court that they are capable of protecting the child's best interest. That being said, laws vary by jurisdiction and YMMV, and I hope you can find a lawyer as quickly as possible.
posted by Little Dawn at 10:40 AM on February 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
If you have a car, consider making a copy of your car key and hiding it somewhere so that if he tries to stop you by taking your keys, you can still get out. I’m really sorry that you are dealing with this.
posted by corey flood at 10:56 AM on February 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by corey flood at 10:56 AM on February 28, 2019 [3 favorites]
There is lots of great advice here. Here is what I have.
You may want to contact your local legal aid, or get an attorney recommendation from your local domestic abuse hotline. If you are in Minnesota, please memail me. If not, try to find an attorney who is experienced in dealing with domestic abuse, which is what this is.
Keep a record of what's going on to the best of your ability.
Do you have friends or family you can trust that are local to you? If you need to get out in a hurry, having a place you can go in an emergency is a good plan.
I would also say that if you find you have to leave for your safety, take your son with you. A friend of mine lost custody of her kids because she was not able to do this.
posted by bile and syntax at 11:00 AM on February 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
You may want to contact your local legal aid, or get an attorney recommendation from your local domestic abuse hotline. If you are in Minnesota, please memail me. If not, try to find an attorney who is experienced in dealing with domestic abuse, which is what this is.
Keep a record of what's going on to the best of your ability.
Do you have friends or family you can trust that are local to you? If you need to get out in a hurry, having a place you can go in an emergency is a good plan.
I would also say that if you find you have to leave for your safety, take your son with you. A friend of mine lost custody of her kids because she was not able to do this.
posted by bile and syntax at 11:00 AM on February 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
There's a lot of great practical advice above, I just wanted to echo something to add another voice to the chorus of truth (which includes the parts of you that know this, and that reached out for help here): this man is abusing you and gaslighting you and lying to you. All that can be very confusing and overwhelming and in the face of it you were strong enough and brave enough to reach out here. Keep reaching out for help, in all the smart ways people have suggested above. You're worth it and your baby is worth it. Keep telling yourself the truth, even if you have to strategically hide it from him for a while. Your life will be so much better once you've made it out of this situation.
posted by overglow at 12:42 PM on February 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by overglow at 12:42 PM on February 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
Record the fights yourself. You can do this with evernote or another app.
Document everything - write it up, email it to that email address. Be bland and factual. On date, this happened, he said, I said. Document the time you spend with the child, the emotional labor, anyhting. This helps you stay sane. This may be useful in a custody battle.
Document the status of finances in case he hides money. Pay down debt, esp. on anything you're likely to keep, like a car.
See a therapist if you can, just to have someone helping you cope.
You will be parenting the child together for years to come and it may be difficult. I wish you the best.
posted by theora55 at 1:23 PM on February 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
Document everything - write it up, email it to that email address. Be bland and factual. On date, this happened, he said, I said. Document the time you spend with the child, the emotional labor, anyhting. This helps you stay sane. This may be useful in a custody battle.
Document the status of finances in case he hides money. Pay down debt, esp. on anything you're likely to keep, like a car.
See a therapist if you can, just to have someone helping you cope.
You will be parenting the child together for years to come and it may be difficult. I wish you the best.
posted by theora55 at 1:23 PM on February 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
Someone above suggested being "ruthless and amoral." I think this is insightful but maybe not perfectly phrased. For what it's worth, I'm a lawyer who works with victims of abuse (etc), so that's my perspective on the subject. Others have different perspectives.
Don't be ruthless. That won't look good to the court, which will hurt your ability to advocate for yourself and for your child. You don't want to look ruthless; you want to look calm. You want to look like the adult. Family-court judges love when both spouses behave like adults, but that's pretty rare. Usually you hope one spouse will be the adult, and that's who wins the most credibility in the courtroom. Very often, unfortunately, there's no adult anywhere in sight.
But the problem with telling a victim of domestic abuse (whether physical, emotional, etc), "No, don't be ruthless" is that the person is often already in a psychological space where she's just learning to speak up for herself in this situation, and she's feeling all kinds of fraught about it, and she is very likely to feel that something is ruthless and cruel when it most definitely is not—so that otherwise-good advice, "No, don't be ruthless" becomes, from the hearer's perspective, "Maybe I shouldn't do that small thing I was thinking about maybe-sorta doing, because I don't want to be mean!"
For those reasons and with due respect to the commenter who offered the earlier advice—who may well have a different perspective than mine—I'd gently rephrase the advice to say, "Don't be afraid to do things that may feel ruthless." This is where it's important to enlist help. A lawyer. A therapist. A trusted and qualified friend. Someone who's on your side and who knows your struggle but who can also say, "From an objective standpoint, here's how X or Y will look..." It's terrible to tell a victim of gaslighting not to trust her own feelings, but yeah, there's an extent to which your feelings may try to trick you into being less assertive than you're entitled to be, or to abstain from things it's important that you do.
I'm sorry for your troubles, but congratulations on taking a few steps toward your better life. If you have more questions, I hope you'll continue to use this resource and others. Asking for help is hard but important. Good luck.
posted by cribcage at 2:05 PM on February 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
Don't be ruthless. That won't look good to the court, which will hurt your ability to advocate for yourself and for your child. You don't want to look ruthless; you want to look calm. You want to look like the adult. Family-court judges love when both spouses behave like adults, but that's pretty rare. Usually you hope one spouse will be the adult, and that's who wins the most credibility in the courtroom. Very often, unfortunately, there's no adult anywhere in sight.
But the problem with telling a victim of domestic abuse (whether physical, emotional, etc), "No, don't be ruthless" is that the person is often already in a psychological space where she's just learning to speak up for herself in this situation, and she's feeling all kinds of fraught about it, and she is very likely to feel that something is ruthless and cruel when it most definitely is not—so that otherwise-good advice, "No, don't be ruthless" becomes, from the hearer's perspective, "Maybe I shouldn't do that small thing I was thinking about maybe-sorta doing, because I don't want to be mean!"
For those reasons and with due respect to the commenter who offered the earlier advice—who may well have a different perspective than mine—I'd gently rephrase the advice to say, "Don't be afraid to do things that may feel ruthless." This is where it's important to enlist help. A lawyer. A therapist. A trusted and qualified friend. Someone who's on your side and who knows your struggle but who can also say, "From an objective standpoint, here's how X or Y will look..." It's terrible to tell a victim of gaslighting not to trust her own feelings, but yeah, there's an extent to which your feelings may try to trick you into being less assertive than you're entitled to be, or to abstain from things it's important that you do.
I'm sorry for your troubles, but congratulations on taking a few steps toward your better life. If you have more questions, I hope you'll continue to use this resource and others. Asking for help is hard but important. Good luck.
posted by cribcage at 2:05 PM on February 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
Here is how I left my verbally abusive husband.
I called a victim hotline from work and secured a place in the shelter.
I called my child’s school and instructed them not to release the child to anybody but me due to a domestic violence situation.
I called the police non-emergency line and the police escorted me to the house while I packed essential documents, laptop, medicines, and a suitcase of clothes/toys. My ex was there and the cops dumped him for me.
I drove to the school, pulled my child from class, and drove her to the shelter where we resided for a few weeks.
I already had access to joint bank account, personal credit card, a pension account in my name. The lease on my apartment was held jointly. I opened a new bank account, redirected my paycheque there, and liquidated my pension. I notified my landlord that I quit the lease. In two weeks I moved to market housing and started the process of getting a new life.
I am ok now. I got the kid and the dogs. I have enough money, even though I pay him spousal support. It can be ok.
I wish you luck in whatever you choose to do.
posted by crazycanuck at 8:05 PM on February 28, 2019 [9 favorites]
I called a victim hotline from work and secured a place in the shelter.
I called my child’s school and instructed them not to release the child to anybody but me due to a domestic violence situation.
I called the police non-emergency line and the police escorted me to the house while I packed essential documents, laptop, medicines, and a suitcase of clothes/toys. My ex was there and the cops dumped him for me.
I drove to the school, pulled my child from class, and drove her to the shelter where we resided for a few weeks.
I already had access to joint bank account, personal credit card, a pension account in my name. The lease on my apartment was held jointly. I opened a new bank account, redirected my paycheque there, and liquidated my pension. I notified my landlord that I quit the lease. In two weeks I moved to market housing and started the process of getting a new life.
I am ok now. I got the kid and the dogs. I have enough money, even though I pay him spousal support. It can be ok.
I wish you luck in whatever you choose to do.
posted by crazycanuck at 8:05 PM on February 28, 2019 [9 favorites]
Just one note: my bank (Chase) makes a line-item note on the monthly statement of when you take cash back from a grocery store transaction. Which I found out the hard way when I was trying to stash cash.
I recently discovered that Costco offers cashback, but only (your choice of) either $20 or $60 per transaction. I haven't tried it so I have no idea of whether or is line-itemed on a credit card statement.
I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm wishing you safety and good mental health.
posted by vignettist at 8:56 PM on February 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
I recently discovered that Costco offers cashback, but only (your choice of) either $20 or $60 per transaction. I haven't tried it so I have no idea of whether or is line-itemed on a credit card statement.
I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm wishing you safety and good mental health.
posted by vignettist at 8:56 PM on February 28, 2019 [1 favorite]
You have my condolences for your situation. Life will increase in difficulty but you can handle it. You're not alone. There's internet support groups, personal therapy, your company's employee assistance program, and most importantly your family.
The phrase you need to research on protecting yourself is high-conflict divorce. An example article.
posted by dlwr300 at 6:20 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
The phrase you need to research on protecting yourself is high-conflict divorce. An example article.
posted by dlwr300 at 6:20 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
Again, I'm no expert, but just from a "what would I do in this situation?" perspective, I don't think going to a local relative or friend's house is the right plan. Because your husband knows where those places are, and he could come looking for you there. I don't think it's a good idea to be so easily trackable, and you also run the risk of putting your relatives or friends in danger. If you have the money, I'd suggest spending at least the first night or two at a hotel*, preferably in a different town. Your husband is unlikely to find you at a random hotel, and if he somehow does, the hotel has security to help defuse the situation.
*Make sure it's a hotel where you have to enter through the lobby - no external room entrances. And ask for a room on the highest floor so he can't break your window. Maybe I'm paranoid, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd want to take chances with.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:59 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
*Make sure it's a hotel where you have to enter through the lobby - no external room entrances. And ask for a room on the highest floor so he can't break your window. Maybe I'm paranoid, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd want to take chances with.
posted by kevinbelt at 7:59 AM on March 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
Your husband has given you a forecast of what he intends to do, if you try to divorce him—i.e., he will try to take the baby. He is going to hate you with a purple passion when you reject him by filing for divorce. Your spouse isn't worried about you hurting the baby—what he's worried about is hurting you—and he doesn't care if he has to hurt the baby to do it. He wouldn't be making the threats he's making if he was.
Your only defense is the law—and I'm writing to tell you that accessing this defense may be extremely difficult, given the state of family law and the courts today (although some areas are better than others). To have the best chance, my advice to you is:
Do NOT, under any circumstances, hire a lawyer who is a full- or part-time collaborative lawyer.* And avoid any lawyer who is a part-time mediator, too. (You may be able to find out by checking lawyers' websites before you consult them.) In other words, your goal should be to hire an attorney who is a full-time litigator. It would be too lengthy for me to explain why, but take my word on this.
* There are some good collaborative lawyers—but there are many more terrible ones, and the only way to avoid them is by avoiding collaborative law entirely.
Even if you do hire a full-time litigator, that's not enough to ensure that the lawyer always acts to defend you. As Frowner, above, wrote: Do not assume that because you are paying your lawyer, they are on your side. (Although I, personally, wouldn't worry much if my lawyer was friendly with the opposing attorney, since ethical lawyers wouldn't let that compromise their representation.) All I can do is make a couple of suggestions:
First, when you are consulting lawyers, tell them, explicitly, that you want a lawyer who is a guard dog, not an attack dog—i.e., a lawyer who will do nothing to gratuitously provoke your spouse or inflame the issues, but who will jump to legally defend you if your husband does anything to violate an agreement or your rights. (E.g., if he violates your right to first refusal by hiring a babysitter to care for the baby during a visitation period when you are available).
Put this in writing (e.g., in an email) when you are consulting lawyers. Why? If, after you have hired a lawyer, he/she tries to convince you to let a violation by your spouse go by without doing anything* (or by trying to convince you to rely on his repeated promises not to repeat the violations), you can remind them that they agreed to be a guard dog (as defined above) when they were hired. It is essential that you have a lawyer who will not give your spouse an inch (within reason, of course).
* The main reason that a lawyer may try to pressure you into letting violations go by is because, in many courts, lawyers are under pressure by judges to 'settle' issues without court intervention. The reality, of course, is that the only way to 'settle' a violation of a client's rights without the court is to induce the client to give in to it.
When you do consult an attorney, I know you'll emphasize your husband's threat to take the baby. I'm not a lawyer, but if this were a perfect world, a court would order supervised visitation on the basis of that threat. In any case, it will be a good sign if a lawyer you're consulting takes that threat with the utmost seriousness and discusses with you what legal steps he/she could and would take to protect you and the baby if you hire him or her.
One way that lawyers may get clients to give in to violations of their rights is by not informing them about their rights—or by being purposely vague or unclear. My second suggestion, then, is that you try to give yourself an education on divorce law—both substantively and procedurally. This way, you will be able to intelligently monitor your attorney—i.e.,. recognize if he or she is not doing something that he or she could or should do. For example, this book on pro se representation in divorce cases will tell you what lawyers, in general, should do in divorce cases by telling you what you would do, if you didn't have one. (Caveat: I haven't read that book.)
One last suggestion: if you haven't done this already, tell your friends and family that your spouse is accusing you of being mentally unfit and dangerous to the child. If you don't, there's every chance that he will tell them. This is to pre-empt his efforts to alienate your friends and family from you so that they will support him and not you—which is a classic maneuver by disordered spouses in divorce cases (the book fiercecupcake refers describes a lot of other tactics they take).
There is much much more that I could write, but this is already long enough. I'll end by repeating the advice to get all your ducks in a row before your spouse gets wind of the fact you're divorcing him. In fact, if I was you, I'd pretend that divorce was the furthest thing from my mind.
Here's wishing to the best for you and your baby.
posted by Transl3y at 7:03 PM on March 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
Your only defense is the law—and I'm writing to tell you that accessing this defense may be extremely difficult, given the state of family law and the courts today (although some areas are better than others). To have the best chance, my advice to you is:
Do NOT, under any circumstances, hire a lawyer who is a full- or part-time collaborative lawyer.* And avoid any lawyer who is a part-time mediator, too. (You may be able to find out by checking lawyers' websites before you consult them.) In other words, your goal should be to hire an attorney who is a full-time litigator. It would be too lengthy for me to explain why, but take my word on this.
* There are some good collaborative lawyers—but there are many more terrible ones, and the only way to avoid them is by avoiding collaborative law entirely.
Even if you do hire a full-time litigator, that's not enough to ensure that the lawyer always acts to defend you. As Frowner, above, wrote: Do not assume that because you are paying your lawyer, they are on your side. (Although I, personally, wouldn't worry much if my lawyer was friendly with the opposing attorney, since ethical lawyers wouldn't let that compromise their representation.) All I can do is make a couple of suggestions:
First, when you are consulting lawyers, tell them, explicitly, that you want a lawyer who is a guard dog, not an attack dog—i.e., a lawyer who will do nothing to gratuitously provoke your spouse or inflame the issues, but who will jump to legally defend you if your husband does anything to violate an agreement or your rights. (E.g., if he violates your right to first refusal by hiring a babysitter to care for the baby during a visitation period when you are available).
Put this in writing (e.g., in an email) when you are consulting lawyers. Why? If, after you have hired a lawyer, he/she tries to convince you to let a violation by your spouse go by without doing anything* (or by trying to convince you to rely on his repeated promises not to repeat the violations), you can remind them that they agreed to be a guard dog (as defined above) when they were hired. It is essential that you have a lawyer who will not give your spouse an inch (within reason, of course).
* The main reason that a lawyer may try to pressure you into letting violations go by is because, in many courts, lawyers are under pressure by judges to 'settle' issues without court intervention. The reality, of course, is that the only way to 'settle' a violation of a client's rights without the court is to induce the client to give in to it.
When you do consult an attorney, I know you'll emphasize your husband's threat to take the baby. I'm not a lawyer, but if this were a perfect world, a court would order supervised visitation on the basis of that threat. In any case, it will be a good sign if a lawyer you're consulting takes that threat with the utmost seriousness and discusses with you what legal steps he/she could and would take to protect you and the baby if you hire him or her.
One way that lawyers may get clients to give in to violations of their rights is by not informing them about their rights—or by being purposely vague or unclear. My second suggestion, then, is that you try to give yourself an education on divorce law—both substantively and procedurally. This way, you will be able to intelligently monitor your attorney—i.e.,. recognize if he or she is not doing something that he or she could or should do. For example, this book on pro se representation in divorce cases will tell you what lawyers, in general, should do in divorce cases by telling you what you would do, if you didn't have one. (Caveat: I haven't read that book.)
One last suggestion: if you haven't done this already, tell your friends and family that your spouse is accusing you of being mentally unfit and dangerous to the child. If you don't, there's every chance that he will tell them. This is to pre-empt his efforts to alienate your friends and family from you so that they will support him and not you—which is a classic maneuver by disordered spouses in divorce cases (the book fiercecupcake refers describes a lot of other tactics they take).
There is much much more that I could write, but this is already long enough. I'll end by repeating the advice to get all your ducks in a row before your spouse gets wind of the fact you're divorcing him. In fact, if I was you, I'd pretend that divorce was the furthest thing from my mind.
Here's wishing to the best for you and your baby.
posted by Transl3y at 7:03 PM on March 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
Your post strongly suggests that your soon-to-be-ex may try to abduct your child to hurt you. If you live in the US and your child doesn't already have a passport, you may choose to sign up for the Children's Passport Issuance Alert Program, which is intended to reduce international parental child abduction by alerting either parent if a passport application has been filled out in their child's name and also potentially denying a child passport application if corresponding legal documents have been filed to that effect, so this is a subject you'll want to discuss with your lawyer. Note that if your child already has a passport, CPIAP doesn't prevent that passport being used nor notify you if it is. So once you get out ASAP, talk to your lawyer and local DV advocates about what legal and social measures you can take to reduce the ability of your ex to abduct your child.
posted by nicebookrack at 10:55 AM on March 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by nicebookrack at 10:55 AM on March 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Definitely contact the domestic violence/abuse shelters and other services in your area.
Record all your daily life if you are in a one party consent state. Talk to a lawyer about that if you’re not.
Therapy alone for you. Couples therapy is contraindicated in abusivo
I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
posted by bilabial at 7:49 AM on February 28, 2019 [32 favorites]