Smart thermostat, maximum privacy?
January 8, 2019 8:30 AM Subscribe
I'd like a smart thermostat. I don't want my data stored or shared, if I can help it. What are my options?
I've looked a bit at both Nest and Ecobee; I'm open to other options if there's something better. (And I've tried searching for info on thermostats and privacy, but since every site in the world has a privacy page, I'm not finding anything useful.)
1. Which one should I get - or should I not get one at all?
2. How much can I control privacy settings?
3. Are there any full-featured options that don't have a microphone at all?
Things I would like:
I would greatly appreciate any specific recommendations and experiences you can share!
Thank you!
I've looked a bit at both Nest and Ecobee; I'm open to other options if there's something better. (And I've tried searching for info on thermostats and privacy, but since every site in the world has a privacy page, I'm not finding anything useful.)
1. Which one should I get - or should I not get one at all?
2. How much can I control privacy settings?
3. Are there any full-featured options that don't have a microphone at all?
Things I would like:
- The ability to set programmed times (like "turn up the heat at 3 pm every day").
- The ability to turn the heat up or down from another room (via an app?), or even miles away if I realize I've forgotten to turn down the heat when I'm out and about.
- If there's reporting, I'd like to be able to download data and keep it on my own computer - ideally with no interaction with the cloud (straight from the device to my computer).
- I don't particularly want it "learning" my preferences. I'd rather tell it what I want. (I'm guessing an Ecobee is best for this.)
- I really want to avoid sharing my data with Amazon or Google. I'd like to be able to turn off/override as much data sharing and storage as possible.
- I don't particularly want it to automatically turn things on or off based on my arrival or presence - can I override that feature?
- I don't want to share my data with its parent company.
- I don't want to share my data with third parties.
- I do NOT want voice control.
I would greatly appreciate any specific recommendations and experiences you can share!
Thank you!
Best answer: Regarding the Nest:
The ability to set programmed times (like "turn up the heat at 3 pm every day").
The ability to turn the heat up or down from another room (via an app?), or even miles away if I realize I've forgotten to turn down the heat when I'm out and about.
If there's reporting, I'd like to be able to download data and keep it on my own computer - ideally with no interaction with the cloud (straight from the device to my computer).
You can do the first two things, but the there's no out-of-the-box functionality for the third aside from a little chart of when the heating was on or off over the last week or so. You can hook up IFTTT to trigger actions (eg editing a Google Spreadsheet) based on the thermostat temp and when it's activated, meaning you can create some of your own (basic) reporting (but, uh, that breaks the "no third parties" rule I guess).
The Nest does not have a microphone at all.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:42 AM on January 8, 2019
I don't particularly want it "learning" my preferencesYou can completely turn both these features off.
I don't particularly want it to automatically turn things on or off based on my arrival or presence
The ability to set programmed times (like "turn up the heat at 3 pm every day").
The ability to turn the heat up or down from another room (via an app?), or even miles away if I realize I've forgotten to turn down the heat when I'm out and about.
If there's reporting, I'd like to be able to download data and keep it on my own computer - ideally with no interaction with the cloud (straight from the device to my computer).
You can do the first two things, but the there's no out-of-the-box functionality for the third aside from a little chart of when the heating was on or off over the last week or so. You can hook up IFTTT to trigger actions (eg editing a Google Spreadsheet) based on the thermostat temp and when it's activated, meaning you can create some of your own (basic) reporting (but, uh, that breaks the "no third parties" rule I guess).
The Nest does not have a microphone at all.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:42 AM on January 8, 2019
Best answer: Take a look at the Radio Thermostat brand - they make basic programmable thermostats that have a WiFi add-on card. I happen to also use Home Assistant with my Radio Therm device, but Radio Therm has their own basic "cloud" (that is, remote access) feature and mobile apps. What's nice is that due to the open API, other developers have made mobile and PC apps available to control the thermostats, so you can choose to just not use the internet with the thermostat at all.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:45 AM on January 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:45 AM on January 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I have an older house and older furnace, no AC, and I just got a new thermostat. I was going to get a Honeywell Wi-Fi one so I could adjust the heat with my phone. Turning the heat up from my bed is appealing. But a Wi-Fi thermostat will require a c-wire from the furnace to the thermostat, to supply power. It was more hassle than I was up for so I got another programmable one, and it's fine. Anyway, check the requirements to avoid unpleasant surprises when you install it.
posted by theora55 at 8:53 AM on January 8, 2019
posted by theora55 at 8:53 AM on January 8, 2019
Best answer: I have a Honeywell RTH6580WF. It meets some, but not all of your requirements.
It meets your requirements on these items:
It does not meet your requirements on these items:
I do not know whether it meets your requirements on this item:
It would be nice to have an IP-connected thermostat that just lets you send commands directly to it and either isn't associated with a cloud service, or can have the cloud service turned off. I wouldn't have any problem setting this up, but I can understand why consumer products manufacturers aren't pushing them heavily. I will be curious to see if others know of any thermostats like that.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 8:58 AM on January 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
It meets your requirements on these items:
- The ability to set programmed times
- The ability to turn the heat up or down from another room (via an app?), or even miles away if I realize I've forgotten to turn down the heat when I'm out and about.
- I don't particularly want it "learning" my preferences. I'd rather tell it what I want.
- I really want to avoid sharing my data with Amazon or Google.
- I don't particularly want it to automatically turn things on or off based on my arrival or presence - can I override that feature?
- I do NOT want voice control.
It does not meet your requirements on these items:
- If there's reporting, I'd like to be able to download data and keep it on my own computer - ideally with no interaction with the cloud (straight from the device to my computer).
- I don't want to share my data with its parent company.
I do not know whether it meets your requirements on this item:
- I don't want to share my data with third parties.
It would be nice to have an IP-connected thermostat that just lets you send commands directly to it and either isn't associated with a cloud service, or can have the cloud service turned off. I wouldn't have any problem setting this up, but I can understand why consumer products manufacturers aren't pushing them heavily. I will be curious to see if others know of any thermostats like that.
posted by Juffo-Wup at 8:58 AM on January 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Best answer: We just got the Honeywell one mentioned above (my husband was able to figure out the c-wire thing on his own, but he is admittedly pretty familiar with electrical wiring). It does have an app but does not require a connection to google or apple or anything else. We don't have any of the learning or GPS features turned on.
posted by something something at 8:59 AM on January 8, 2019
posted by something something at 8:59 AM on January 8, 2019
Best answer: Here is some info about Honeywell's Connected Home system, which is hosted on the Microsoft Azure cloud.
posted by soelo at 9:14 AM on January 8, 2019
posted by soelo at 9:14 AM on January 8, 2019
Best answer: As much as people don't trust Google for privacy, I tend to find it to be the best choice for the discerning consumer. Unlike smaller companies, or those new relatively to the internet of things (i.e. Honeywell), Google has entire teams dedicated to privacy and has proper channels of review of security and data protection practices for every product. While they might come out the gate with defaults that you don't like, they will be very very clear about whether they're collecting data or not -- and will typically allow you to control the data they collect. With other vendors I think you have no such assurance: they might write some legal boilerplate about caring about your security, but I wouldn't trust any of them to take it really seriously.
posted by haykinson at 11:34 PM on January 8, 2019
posted by haykinson at 11:34 PM on January 8, 2019
Response by poster: These were all very helpful answers - thank you! I'll read through all the various provided info and try to decide where to go from there.
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences and info!
posted by kristi at 10:20 AM on January 11, 2019
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences and info!
posted by kristi at 10:20 AM on January 11, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
userdatasource, these devices and apps typically connect to a central server somewhere, which relays controls and info from the device to your phone and vice-versa. That means the entity operating the master sever inherently has access to everything.Now, weigh that paranoia against Google/Amazon/etc already knowing almost anything they could learn from access to your thermostat-setting habits. The big cloud companies probably already know when someone's at home (by correlating logged-in uses of eg: google/facebook/amazon services against both your home IP and your mobile device IP). So they learn what temperature you like -- is that a data leak you are willing to accept as a trade for ease of remote access?
The alternative is running a home automation server yourself, on-prem or in a datacenter/someone's cloud. I use Home Assistant running on a single-board computer in my closet for this purpose, but I give up remote control (I could open it to the outside world but that's an attack surface I don't really need). There are other options but they're similar in that they're more work than trusting somebody else's server. Opportunity costs!
posted by Alterscape at 8:41 AM on January 8, 2019 [5 favorites]