How Do I (Graciously) Say No Again to Something I’ve Already Refused?
December 25, 2018 8:29 AM Subscribe
I had a baby last week. This is super! We have friends and family who want to celebrate with us. This is extra super and deeply, deeply appreciated. But when they ask if they can come over to drop off supplies or do other X thing for us and I say no, we’re not up for it just yet, or thanks but we don’t need X, I get a ton of pushback. How do I firm up my boundaries while being polite and exhibiting the gratitude I feel?
I’ve had a lot of trouble letting friends and family know that we’re not ready to accept a visit yet (we had some complications, I’m still really sore, and we’re only on day five anyhow). I feel like I’m being pretty firm, so I was wondering if anyone could help me review what I’m doing wrong in these conversations and what else I could say to dissuade my loved ones? They seem to feel rejected when I of course don’t want to reject anyone! An example of a conversation is this text exchange between a friend and me on the day we got home. My doctor had recommended I have some red meat.
Friend: Has Husband cooked you a steak yet? We can deliver steak.
Me: Haha not yet. Soon! We are okay and don’t need anything now. Miss you, though! Will see you soon.
Friend: Miss you too! If you want a to go order from Restaurant, we deliver. We are wrapping up dinner and we can just drop it by so you can rest
Me: You are the most thoughtful but we are really not ready for visitors now. Love u tho.
Friend: We want to bring you a piece of pie if that’s okay. You don’t even have to see us
Me: Not tonight, really! But very very soon.
Friend: Maybe we’ll just ring your doorbell.
At this point, my friend’s wife texted to let me know she understood my texts and wouldn’t let her husband come over to ring our doorbell, don’t worry, he just feels rejected and dismissed because he doesn’t get the whole birth-is-a-big-deal-and-you-have-stitches-in-forbidden-places thing, so we didn’t have to deal with it. I feel like I said no many times and very kindly but it just . . . didn’t take? This has happened a few times with other friends. I have to say no three to four times for it to be heard, and they clearly feel hurt.
The same is happening with my mother and a needlepoint she wants to make for our nursery. She keeps sending me needlepoint patterns to look at and showed me exactly where on the wall she wants us to place the needlepoint. I like the room the way it is and need no further decor, but when I said, “Oh, you’re so nice! We don’t really need a needlepoint,” my mom continued as though I hadn’t said it. She sent me a bunch of patterns and I reiterated she didn’t have to spend her time on it, and I liked the decor in the nursery as it already is. She pointed out the patterns she really likes. I was forced to say, “None of these are really my taste, I’m sorry!” She said I was being unfair and picky, and kept pointing out the ones she likes and thinks are “minimalist, the way you like things,” so I capitulated and now we’ll have a piece of decor we dislike and need to place in a very visible place, which seems silly to worry about and is incredibly superficial, so I don’t really care.
But why am I not being listened to, other than the fact that my loved ones are trying to prove they want to be helpful and are doing it a bit clumsily? How can I improve these conversations? I find them strange because when someone says no to me once, I immediately listen, but maybe I’m missing something.
I’ve had a lot of trouble letting friends and family know that we’re not ready to accept a visit yet (we had some complications, I’m still really sore, and we’re only on day five anyhow). I feel like I’m being pretty firm, so I was wondering if anyone could help me review what I’m doing wrong in these conversations and what else I could say to dissuade my loved ones? They seem to feel rejected when I of course don’t want to reject anyone! An example of a conversation is this text exchange between a friend and me on the day we got home. My doctor had recommended I have some red meat.
Friend: Has Husband cooked you a steak yet? We can deliver steak.
Me: Haha not yet. Soon! We are okay and don’t need anything now. Miss you, though! Will see you soon.
Friend: Miss you too! If you want a to go order from Restaurant, we deliver. We are wrapping up dinner and we can just drop it by so you can rest
Me: You are the most thoughtful but we are really not ready for visitors now. Love u tho.
Friend: We want to bring you a piece of pie if that’s okay. You don’t even have to see us
Me: Not tonight, really! But very very soon.
Friend: Maybe we’ll just ring your doorbell.
At this point, my friend’s wife texted to let me know she understood my texts and wouldn’t let her husband come over to ring our doorbell, don’t worry, he just feels rejected and dismissed because he doesn’t get the whole birth-is-a-big-deal-and-you-have-stitches-in-forbidden-places thing, so we didn’t have to deal with it. I feel like I said no many times and very kindly but it just . . . didn’t take? This has happened a few times with other friends. I have to say no three to four times for it to be heard, and they clearly feel hurt.
The same is happening with my mother and a needlepoint she wants to make for our nursery. She keeps sending me needlepoint patterns to look at and showed me exactly where on the wall she wants us to place the needlepoint. I like the room the way it is and need no further decor, but when I said, “Oh, you’re so nice! We don’t really need a needlepoint,” my mom continued as though I hadn’t said it. She sent me a bunch of patterns and I reiterated she didn’t have to spend her time on it, and I liked the decor in the nursery as it already is. She pointed out the patterns she really likes. I was forced to say, “None of these are really my taste, I’m sorry!” She said I was being unfair and picky, and kept pointing out the ones she likes and thinks are “minimalist, the way you like things,” so I capitulated and now we’ll have a piece of decor we dislike and need to place in a very visible place, which seems silly to worry about and is incredibly superficial, so I don’t really care.
But why am I not being listened to, other than the fact that my loved ones are trying to prove they want to be helpful and are doing it a bit clumsily? How can I improve these conversations? I find them strange because when someone says no to me once, I immediately listen, but maybe I’m missing something.
You're saying all the right things here! They love you and want to help, and I think they also want to share in the special event that is the birth of your baby. If you don't have a shower/visit planned, maybe your partner could arrange one with all these folks so they have a day to look forward to when they can bring gifts/food/themselves to spend a bit of time with you guys? Otherwise, stick firm to your boundaries. Offload some of this labour onto your partner as needed. As much as they mean well, you're the priority here as you recover from the birth and transition to life with a new baby, so take care of yourself first. Congrats and good luck!
posted by DTMFA at 8:57 AM on December 25, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by DTMFA at 8:57 AM on December 25, 2018 [13 favorites]
Big life changes often result in discovering things about people in your social circle that you're really not fond of. There's a lot of sexism out there . Failure to listen to a new mother is one of the ways it shows up. I'm sorry that you have some of those folks to wrangle right now.
It may be that your "no" is perhaps a little too polite. Last night an acquaintance asked me if she could bring her dog over for an upcoming movie night. My response was a neutral shake of the head and "no." Simple as that: no means no. It was the end of the discussion, and we continued to talk about movie night and what we wanted to watch.
As an ultimatum, you could say very clearly: "I've said no several times and it doesn't sound like you want to listen to me. No means no, and right now my priority is to care for my child. You should think about this before we speak again. I have to go now." FULL STOP.
Alternately, your husband could take texts and calls from these people for a while until you decide whether you want them in your life and if so, in which (limited) contexts. But it sounds like you want to manage the boundary-setting yourself, and I can understand that.
Don't be afraid of losing relationships with people who can't/won't/don't want to observe boundaries. That includes family members.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 8:57 AM on December 25, 2018 [26 favorites]
It may be that your "no" is perhaps a little too polite. Last night an acquaintance asked me if she could bring her dog over for an upcoming movie night. My response was a neutral shake of the head and "no." Simple as that: no means no. It was the end of the discussion, and we continued to talk about movie night and what we wanted to watch.
As an ultimatum, you could say very clearly: "I've said no several times and it doesn't sound like you want to listen to me. No means no, and right now my priority is to care for my child. You should think about this before we speak again. I have to go now." FULL STOP.
Alternately, your husband could take texts and calls from these people for a while until you decide whether you want them in your life and if so, in which (limited) contexts. But it sounds like you want to manage the boundary-setting yourself, and I can understand that.
Don't be afraid of losing relationships with people who can't/won't/don't want to observe boundaries. That includes family members.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 8:57 AM on December 25, 2018 [26 favorites]
Your messages are super-nice and very considerate of the other person's feelings. They don't need to be. You're allowed to be selfish right now. If they're good friends they will understand.
BELIEVE ME, I know how counter-intuitive this is to the programming that women receive from early childhood. But this is a time when you just don't have to GAF.
I also second R'ES'E's advice of referring them to partner.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:57 AM on December 25, 2018 [7 favorites]
BELIEVE ME, I know how counter-intuitive this is to the programming that women receive from early childhood. But this is a time when you just don't have to GAF.
I also second R'ES'E's advice of referring them to partner.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:57 AM on December 25, 2018 [7 favorites]
These folks are feeling extra because it’s the holidays. It’s ok to politely ignore them.
It’s been seven years now, but definitely I lost some clout in other people’s eyes when I became a mom. Not sure what that’s about, but definitely I made necessary adjustments in my demeanor and reactions as a result.
posted by jbenben at 9:04 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
It’s been seven years now, but definitely I lost some clout in other people’s eyes when I became a mom. Not sure what that’s about, but definitely I made necessary adjustments in my demeanor and reactions as a result.
posted by jbenben at 9:04 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
Set a deadline for when they can come over. Pick a date, say, hey if you want to visit we'll see you at 5pm the 15th.
(Obviously pick a date that works for you)
And just refer them to that.
Some of them will find that date inconvenient but that's their problem.
posted by emjaybee at 9:09 AM on December 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
(Obviously pick a date that works for you)
And just refer them to that.
Some of them will find that date inconvenient but that's their problem.
posted by emjaybee at 9:09 AM on December 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
You can adopt the attitude of busy new mom, and not reply for 12 hours or so. "Oh, sorry, baby was really fussy and kept me busy" or "baby and I were sleeping " or "I'm in too much pain /too exhausted to check phone messages right now" followed by "thanks for understanding ".
This is the time to put hubby in charge of communication. You are otherwise occupied and shouldn't have to do all of this emotional labor on top of what you're already doing.
You are in that zone of needing to put on your own oxygen mask first. As a person who was an absolute clod before I understood what it meant to have a new baby in the house, I say be as polite as you've been but don't worry yourself too much about hurting others' feelings; you are not the person who is being rude (even if the other party is well-meaning).
If you have communicated clearly and your mom won't hear you then don't do further labor to take care of her feelings. Tell her to make whatever she wants; it's a gift from her and after it's been given it's yours to do with it as you wish, including not putting it up if you don't want to.
Wishes to you for good rest mama.
posted by vignettist at 9:12 AM on December 25, 2018 [6 favorites]
This is the time to put hubby in charge of communication. You are otherwise occupied and shouldn't have to do all of this emotional labor on top of what you're already doing.
You are in that zone of needing to put on your own oxygen mask first. As a person who was an absolute clod before I understood what it meant to have a new baby in the house, I say be as polite as you've been but don't worry yourself too much about hurting others' feelings; you are not the person who is being rude (even if the other party is well-meaning).
If you have communicated clearly and your mom won't hear you then don't do further labor to take care of her feelings. Tell her to make whatever she wants; it's a gift from her and after it's been given it's yours to do with it as you wish, including not putting it up if you don't want to.
Wishes to you for good rest mama.
posted by vignettist at 9:12 AM on December 25, 2018 [6 favorites]
you don't actually have to constantly be polite when adult humans refuse to listen to you or refuse to take your clearly stated wishes seriously. if a new mom was short with me i'd be like oh shit i fucked up. if someone complained to me that a new mom was short with them, i'd gleefully inform them how stupid and selfish they must have been to cause such a reaction in the first place.
i do think that you should to reconsider saying things like "very very soon" and similar because for clueless people, this often means "check in every single day, maybe even multiple times a day, just in case SOON means NOW". if you can bring yourself to say "please let us choose to get in touch with you when we are ready" (polite version) or "you are exhausting me when my attention should be focused on my 5 day old infant, please take my NO answers seriously" (more direct version) that might work ok, but tbh just ignoring everyone is even better, assuming they won't take utterly insane action and call the police to report you missing or whatever.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:19 AM on December 25, 2018 [31 favorites]
i do think that you should to reconsider saying things like "very very soon" and similar because for clueless people, this often means "check in every single day, maybe even multiple times a day, just in case SOON means NOW". if you can bring yourself to say "please let us choose to get in touch with you when we are ready" (polite version) or "you are exhausting me when my attention should be focused on my 5 day old infant, please take my NO answers seriously" (more direct version) that might work ok, but tbh just ignoring everyone is even better, assuming they won't take utterly insane action and call the police to report you missing or whatever.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:19 AM on December 25, 2018 [31 favorites]
I think you're doing fine and it's just that other people are being railroad-y, so you could maybe tweak your "no"s to be more about what you want rather than about saving the other person trouble. "I can't handle visitors right now, but thanks," or "I really don't want a needlepoint in there." People may currently think you're being overly thoughtful of their time rather than protective of your time/space, and it's easier for them to push back if you're framing your "no"s as being about them, if that makes sense. It's ok to state your own feelings.
posted by lazuli at 9:20 AM on December 25, 2018 [22 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 9:20 AM on December 25, 2018 [22 favorites]
I said, “Oh, you’re so nice! We don’t really need a needlepoint,” my mom continued as though I hadn’t said it. She sent me a bunch of patterns and I reiterated she didn’t have to spend her time on it
OK, I am not American so take it with a grain of salt but in my culture it would read as a very wishy-washy response. You are not saying what YOU prefer but instead frame it as avoiding trouble for your mother. "You don't have to spend your time"? She would love to spend the time, it seems so she is waving off your protests.
Why not own what you want? "Hey Mom, that's very kind. I have thought about it and decided I do not want a needlepoint. I would very much appreciate [X thing] though." - where X is something you do not have to look at every day.**
With the clueless and pushy friend(s) - ugh. I would go with shorter and shorter responses.
"Oh thanks but we have made other arrangements so please don't worry about it" "Haha, thanks but no, we're all set" "Sorry I cannot chat right now, off to bed!" and after that, no response. No love you's or miss you's after the first exchange.
** That said, I do own a painting that is nothing like my taste and that my Grandma pushed on me. I feel your pain.
posted by M. at 9:29 AM on December 25, 2018 [12 favorites]
OK, I am not American so take it with a grain of salt but in my culture it would read as a very wishy-washy response. You are not saying what YOU prefer but instead frame it as avoiding trouble for your mother. "You don't have to spend your time"? She would love to spend the time, it seems so she is waving off your protests.
Why not own what you want? "Hey Mom, that's very kind. I have thought about it and decided I do not want a needlepoint. I would very much appreciate [X thing] though." - where X is something you do not have to look at every day.**
With the clueless and pushy friend(s) - ugh. I would go with shorter and shorter responses.
"Oh thanks but we have made other arrangements so please don't worry about it" "Haha, thanks but no, we're all set" "Sorry I cannot chat right now, off to bed!" and after that, no response. No love you's or miss you's after the first exchange.
** That said, I do own a painting that is nothing like my taste and that my Grandma pushed on me. I feel your pain.
posted by M. at 9:29 AM on December 25, 2018 [12 favorites]
Response by poster: Well, re: the needlepoint, I did also say I liked the decor the way it was and that none of the choices were my taste. I guess maybe I should have started with that? But I did state that I did not want it.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 9:37 AM on December 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 9:37 AM on December 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
Could you try the "you're not vaccinated" route? I'm due in a week and everyone knows if they haven't gotten their Tdap, they aren't seeing or visiting my babies until much much later. I would let them drop restaurant made food at the door tho, because I'm greedy.
posted by Attackpanda at 9:40 AM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Attackpanda at 9:40 AM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: One disconnect I hear is that some people are offering not to visit but just to drop food off without disturbing you, so your response of, 'no visitors yet, pls' is causing them to double down explaining that they're not offering to visit but to drop off food so you don't have to cook. To address this particular offer, you might want to say that you have a large frozen stash of food but that you might take them up on that steak in January/February.
posted by xo at 10:02 AM on December 25, 2018 [70 favorites]
posted by xo at 10:02 AM on December 25, 2018 [70 favorites]
If adult people are not aware how hard it can be, recovering from birth and taking care of a brand-new human, I'd just get graphic on them: "So sweet of you to offer (to bring stuff, visit, etc.) but stitches on my perineum hurt a lot, and prevent me from doing anything/being social/accepting stuff/answering a door bell. A bit later?"
posted by LakeDream at 10:02 AM on December 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by LakeDream at 10:02 AM on December 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
I interpret these situations differently I guess. With the steak, they’re offering to drop something off and you’re saying no visitors- two different things. Try saying “bring it when we see you! Let’s make plans for January 12th” or whatever date.
The needlepoint is tricky in part because while you “own” the nursery decor, this is just the first of a lifetime of gifts for your baby that may or may not be to your taste. And your baby won’t have feelings on this for a while. For myself, I chose to draws lines on toys and gifts I thought were unsafe or inappropriate or lifechanging (tablets, noisy noisy things) but not on asthetics. At this point in my children’s lives, ugly needlepoint is the least of the wall noise which includes LEGO and Everquest posters. The reason your mom is not listening to you, I bet, is that the gift is for the baby, in her eyes.
All that said, people should respect your boundaries. But you will have to address the acts directly. “I don’t want a food delivery” or “I don’t want needlepoint on the walls.”
posted by warriorqueen at 10:09 AM on December 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
The needlepoint is tricky in part because while you “own” the nursery decor, this is just the first of a lifetime of gifts for your baby that may or may not be to your taste. And your baby won’t have feelings on this for a while. For myself, I chose to draws lines on toys and gifts I thought were unsafe or inappropriate or lifechanging (tablets, noisy noisy things) but not on asthetics. At this point in my children’s lives, ugly needlepoint is the least of the wall noise which includes LEGO and Everquest posters. The reason your mom is not listening to you, I bet, is that the gift is for the baby, in her eyes.
All that said, people should respect your boundaries. But you will have to address the acts directly. “I don’t want a food delivery” or “I don’t want needlepoint on the walls.”
posted by warriorqueen at 10:09 AM on December 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: I think it would be a kindness to graciously accept your mother's needlepoint.
So I did say in my initial question that I wound up accepting it, but above you are instructing me to accept it. Which I already did. So I don’t know how I could do it again or more than I did. Maybe this is part of my issue and you all can help me with that? It could be that I’m a very poor communicator, which is expressing itself in this question because I notice I think I’m being explicit about things I did or didn’t do in the question, but commenters are still instructing me to do the things I actually already did. I see this is a “me” problem. Am I being too long-winded when explaining, maybe?
Also for me, dropping things off = visitors. My husband doesn’t really interact with people much (separate issue), so I would be the one answering the door, having conversations, etc. The door conversation I had with my brother’s girlfriend who was just dropping off a gift lasted 30 min.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 10:13 AM on December 25, 2018 [13 favorites]
So I did say in my initial question that I wound up accepting it, but above you are instructing me to accept it. Which I already did. So I don’t know how I could do it again or more than I did. Maybe this is part of my issue and you all can help me with that? It could be that I’m a very poor communicator, which is expressing itself in this question because I notice I think I’m being explicit about things I did or didn’t do in the question, but commenters are still instructing me to do the things I actually already did. I see this is a “me” problem. Am I being too long-winded when explaining, maybe?
Also for me, dropping things off = visitors. My husband doesn’t really interact with people much (separate issue), so I would be the one answering the door, having conversations, etc. The door conversation I had with my brother’s girlfriend who was just dropping off a gift lasted 30 min.
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 10:13 AM on December 25, 2018 [13 favorites]
People respond really well to defined guidelines and schedules, for the most part. Tell everybody that you absolutely can't have any visitors until [arbitrary date]. You can of course change your mind or ask specific people to visit beforehand, but tell everybody that you are certain you can't possibly entertain the idea of visitors until then and to please tell everyone who might be curious the same thing and not to bother, or to worry.
Something like this works best if you have one really gossipy connected friend, or like, a blog, that you can keep briefly updated so people can secondarily keep up with you without actually being in your face. Giving birth is traumatic! People care about you and the new kid, so some regular "I'm fine, baby is fine, we slept today, I am not back in the hospital" updates should alleviate some of this tension.
As for the needlepoint and your mom, well, that's trickier. Everybody's relationship with their mom is different. Honestly between my mom and me, I am your mom in this scenario. I make things for people, especially for new kids and life events. A lot of the time these things are unasked for. I try my best to make sure they're easily portable, not the kind of thing that is supposed to be on display, as it were. Stuff like toys and blankets or baskets and scarves. Could you ask your mom if she would be open to a different kind of craft? Something that the baby could touch and hold, like an embroidered pillow or blanket? That way, you can tuck it out of sight most of the time, and you can get nice pictures of the baby with your mom's thing, without having to hold them awkwardly up in front of the wall.
posted by Mizu at 10:15 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
Something like this works best if you have one really gossipy connected friend, or like, a blog, that you can keep briefly updated so people can secondarily keep up with you without actually being in your face. Giving birth is traumatic! People care about you and the new kid, so some regular "I'm fine, baby is fine, we slept today, I am not back in the hospital" updates should alleviate some of this tension.
As for the needlepoint and your mom, well, that's trickier. Everybody's relationship with their mom is different. Honestly between my mom and me, I am your mom in this scenario. I make things for people, especially for new kids and life events. A lot of the time these things are unasked for. I try my best to make sure they're easily portable, not the kind of thing that is supposed to be on display, as it were. Stuff like toys and blankets or baskets and scarves. Could you ask your mom if she would be open to a different kind of craft? Something that the baby could touch and hold, like an embroidered pillow or blanket? That way, you can tuck it out of sight most of the time, and you can get nice pictures of the baby with your mom's thing, without having to hold them awkwardly up in front of the wall.
posted by Mizu at 10:15 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
I would just keep saying no and don’t sugarcoat it too much. I also personally wouldn’t give them any personal details as reasons why you are not ready for visitors, because I wouldn’t want to open up more to people who are wildly disrespecting my boundaries. Also; you’re not doing anything wrong.
posted by colfax at 10:16 AM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by colfax at 10:16 AM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Maybe this is part of my issue and you all can help me with that? It could be that I’m a very poor communicator, which is expressing itself in this question.
No, you've communicated yourself 100% fine in this question, your examples described the situation(s) clearly and well. It is an unfortunately common problem on askme that people often read only as far as they feel like and then fill in the rest with assumptions based on the answers they've already decided to give.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:20 AM on December 25, 2018 [60 favorites]
No, you've communicated yourself 100% fine in this question, your examples described the situation(s) clearly and well. It is an unfortunately common problem on askme that people often read only as far as they feel like and then fill in the rest with assumptions based on the answers they've already decided to give.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:20 AM on December 25, 2018 [60 favorites]
The door conversation I had with my brother’s girlfriend who was just dropping off a gift lasted 30 min.
Yeesh. Are you in the northern hemisphere? When someone comes to the door, don't put on a coat. As soon as you get cold (so like, in a couple minutes max), say "brr! I'm going back inside, see you later!" and close the door.
posted by Mizu at 10:20 AM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Yeesh. Are you in the northern hemisphere? When someone comes to the door, don't put on a coat. As soon as you get cold (so like, in a couple minutes max), say "brr! I'm going back inside, see you later!" and close the door.
posted by Mizu at 10:20 AM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Stop feeding into it. The more you responsd, the more they will write. Leave your phone in a drawer.
Congrats!
posted by jessca84 at 10:23 AM on December 25, 2018 [6 favorites]
Congrats!
posted by jessca84 at 10:23 AM on December 25, 2018 [6 favorites]
Your Mom is a separate case. Your friends - be polite in your 1st response, What a kind offer, but we are not at all ready for visitors yet. Looking forward to seeing you in a few weeks then more definitive As I said, I'm just not up to it. I'll be in touch when we're ready for company. Any subsequent requests are pushy, so repeat yourself I'll be in touch when we're ready for company. Don't answer the door or phone, use auto reply on emails. Newborns are magic, but no one has a right to intrude.
If any offers sound reasonable, you'd enjoy a steak, need a prescription, whatever, respond with If you really want to help, we need X, and you could drop it in our mailbox. Just about to have a nap. Your friends do want to help, want to share in your excitement.
Your Mom was going to make a needlepoint, no matter what. She's probably been dying to make that needlepoint for a while. Put it in the scrapbook, or someplace where it won't annoy you terribly.
Congratulations. Being a parent invites meddling, so improving your No-saying skills will be useful.
posted by theora55 at 10:34 AM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
If any offers sound reasonable, you'd enjoy a steak, need a prescription, whatever, respond with If you really want to help, we need X, and you could drop it in our mailbox. Just about to have a nap. Your friends do want to help, want to share in your excitement.
Your Mom was going to make a needlepoint, no matter what. She's probably been dying to make that needlepoint for a while. Put it in the scrapbook, or someplace where it won't annoy you terribly.
Congratulations. Being a parent invites meddling, so improving your No-saying skills will be useful.
posted by theora55 at 10:34 AM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: OP: “I think I’m being explicit about things I did or didn’t do in the question, but commenters are still instructing me to do the things I actually already did.”
I think you are a good communicator but perhaps a little too literal? I got the sense that citygirl was not trying to give you instructions but trying to help you reframe your thoughts about the needlepoint. Yes you technically already accepted the needlepoint but it was done begrudgingly and citygirl was telling you about a time she regretted accepting something begrudgingly. I think you may be missing the moral of her story in your haste to clarify the facts of the matter.
In reply to the original question, I agree that you need to be more clear about what “soon” and “not yet” mean to you. If you need a few weeks before you’ll even be ready to make a decision, then just relay that.
“I appreciate the offer but we are well-stocked and really just want to rest and recover. Can I contact you towards the end of January to let you know what help we can use?”
I had a friend who fell ill recently and it was stressful not having a timeline for when I could be useful. Obviously my experience was not nearly as stressful as being sick and I tried not to pester her... but I probably did because I didn’t want her to feel uncared-for, or forgotten. If she had told me that she needed several weeks, I wouldn’t have been compulsively checking in every couple of days.
posted by cranberrymonger at 10:36 AM on December 25, 2018 [27 favorites]
I think you are a good communicator but perhaps a little too literal? I got the sense that citygirl was not trying to give you instructions but trying to help you reframe your thoughts about the needlepoint. Yes you technically already accepted the needlepoint but it was done begrudgingly and citygirl was telling you about a time she regretted accepting something begrudgingly. I think you may be missing the moral of her story in your haste to clarify the facts of the matter.
In reply to the original question, I agree that you need to be more clear about what “soon” and “not yet” mean to you. If you need a few weeks before you’ll even be ready to make a decision, then just relay that.
“I appreciate the offer but we are well-stocked and really just want to rest and recover. Can I contact you towards the end of January to let you know what help we can use?”
I had a friend who fell ill recently and it was stressful not having a timeline for when I could be useful. Obviously my experience was not nearly as stressful as being sick and I tried not to pester her... but I probably did because I didn’t want her to feel uncared-for, or forgotten. If she had told me that she needed several weeks, I wouldn’t have been compulsively checking in every couple of days.
posted by cranberrymonger at 10:36 AM on December 25, 2018 [27 favorites]
Am I being too long-winded when explaining, maybe?
As others have said, I think you're just being more indirect than is useful with these particular people. Other people would likely understand your dancing-around-saying-no better, but these people have demonstrated that they don't, or that they require really long conversations to get there. So if you start out more directly with an unambiguous "No thanks!" with them, it may help.
posted by lazuli at 10:54 AM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
As others have said, I think you're just being more indirect than is useful with these particular people. Other people would likely understand your dancing-around-saying-no better, but these people have demonstrated that they don't, or that they require really long conversations to get there. So if you start out more directly with an unambiguous "No thanks!" with them, it may help.
posted by lazuli at 10:54 AM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
why am I not being listened to,
Because they want to do what they want to do. This comes from whatever motivation they have, not the motivation of doing what you want.
Also I do think you need to be more clear in your messaging, and consider a redirect if possible. You should have told your mom "thank you for offering! But actually I'm done decorating baby's room for now, so no needlepoints. But what would be so helpful is if you could get him a couple outfits for when he's older, like size 6 months." To your friend, "thank you for the kind thought! Can't have any visitors for the next few days though, so can't do it this week. I'll definitely reach out in a few days though, would love you to meet baby when I'm better recovered. It won't be this week."
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:56 AM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Because they want to do what they want to do. This comes from whatever motivation they have, not the motivation of doing what you want.
Also I do think you need to be more clear in your messaging, and consider a redirect if possible. You should have told your mom "thank you for offering! But actually I'm done decorating baby's room for now, so no needlepoints. But what would be so helpful is if you could get him a couple outfits for when he's older, like size 6 months." To your friend, "thank you for the kind thought! Can't have any visitors for the next few days though, so can't do it this week. I'll definitely reach out in a few days though, would love you to meet baby when I'm better recovered. It won't be this week."
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:56 AM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Congratulations on your new baby! Sorry that giving birth has now relegated you to the category of Doesn’t Really Need Listening To in the eyes of many of those close to you. Their offers are no doubt well-intentioned - they have heard that, eg, new parents find meal deliveries helpful! and they want to help! and it feels hard to put your foot down and say NO when they’re just trying to be nice! - but it is not actually being nice when they won’t listen to what you are saying.
So first of all, I would do your absolute best to remind yourself that you are not being mean by saying “no”, that you are allowed to refuse offers and postpone visitors and it doesn’t mean you are being rude to your loved ones. Second, explicitly use the word “no” and include it early in your responses: “No, but thanks” is harder to mistake than “Thanks, but that’s not really what we want just now”, although it shouldn’t be. Third, your friend feeling ‘rejected and dismissed’ because you very very gently and politely turned down his offer is his problem to deal with, not yours, and his wife shouldn’t have offloaded that onto you when you’re five days postpartum either.
posted by Catseye at 10:56 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
So first of all, I would do your absolute best to remind yourself that you are not being mean by saying “no”, that you are allowed to refuse offers and postpone visitors and it doesn’t mean you are being rude to your loved ones. Second, explicitly use the word “no” and include it early in your responses: “No, but thanks” is harder to mistake than “Thanks, but that’s not really what we want just now”, although it shouldn’t be. Third, your friend feeling ‘rejected and dismissed’ because you very very gently and politely turned down his offer is his problem to deal with, not yours, and his wife shouldn’t have offloaded that onto you when you’re five days postpartum either.
posted by Catseye at 10:56 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
Not precisely answering your question but I have friend who, after they had twins, put a box on their porch for people who wanted to drop something off. This way there was no expectation of interaction during a drop off.
I also wanted to send you virtual hugs because I remember well the first weeks after my kiddo was born and totally not having the capacity to deal with this kind of wrangling with people.
There’s a type of social interaction where people feel the need to ask three times - like trying to pay for dinner or something - and won’t take no for an answer because they think the person they’re asking is being coy and will accept the third time.
posted by sciencegeek at 11:00 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
I also wanted to send you virtual hugs because I remember well the first weeks after my kiddo was born and totally not having the capacity to deal with this kind of wrangling with people.
There’s a type of social interaction where people feel the need to ask three times - like trying to pay for dinner or something - and won’t take no for an answer because they think the person they’re asking is being coy and will accept the third time.
posted by sciencegeek at 11:00 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
and I'm very sorry to say, by the way, that the feeling of becoming an invisible second class citizen is a thing that happens when you have a new baby. Fight it! Remind your husband that you come first. And keep your relationships with your own friends strong, those people for whom you're the protagonist, rather than Baby's Mom.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:01 AM on December 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:01 AM on December 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
> I have friend who, after they had twins, put a box on their porch for people who wanted to drop something off
I have a similar setup and so do most of my friends who have houses (as opposed to apartments). I think it's pretty standard for parenting. You're going to be dropping of hand-me-downs and forgotten toys and paperwork for activities etc for the next 18 years. You might as well set it up now.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:06 AM on December 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
I have a similar setup and so do most of my friends who have houses (as opposed to apartments). I think it's pretty standard for parenting. You're going to be dropping of hand-me-downs and forgotten toys and paperwork for activities etc for the next 18 years. You might as well set it up now.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:06 AM on December 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
Best answer: For friends, tell them 'sorry, it means so much to me that you've offered, but a few people have come over [doesn't have to be exact] and I'm seeing that I'm really not up for it yet. At all. Even just coming to the door is hard for me sometimes. So could you do this for me? Keep supporting me by phone [or whatever], and we'll make plans hopefully soonish when I'm finally up to it. I really want you to meet [baby] - I'm just exhausted and not able to handle anything extra right now. People have offered food and to be honest we have more than we can eat, but it means a lot to know that if I need anything I can ask you. Love you!'
Or something along those lines. And send some pics. Some people really want to help and some are insecure or just kind of self-centered and want to center themselves. So try forestalling everything right off the bat, tell them how very helpful they're being by giving you space unlike some unnamed others, and send them pictures to make them feel special.
If they can't deal with that, then honestly, just don't worry about them.
If people really want to leave things at the door that you could use, tell them 'only if it's no trouble. We might not be able to answer the door when you come by!'
(Also even if it's hard for your husband to socialize, it's hard for you to be handling everything too, so hopefully he's trying to do as much for you as possible. He also has a perfect excuse now for things like for conversations: 'sorry, we're having a bit of a hectic moment with the baby, I've got to get back to helping YOAC! It's crazy! Bye!')
About your mom, if this kind of thing happens a lot (where she wants to do things for you that you don't need) you could try tactics like 'that's so nice, what a great grandma, give me some time to think about it, I want to pick when things quiet down a little' or 'I couldn't see anything on the site that I wanted, but what I would love is something colorful in a modern style with a rainbow on it' or 'instead of a needlepoint to hang, do you think you could embroider a blanket/make a doll?' (or whatever) - the point being to channel her impulses to a direction more useful to you.
posted by trig at 11:07 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
Or something along those lines. And send some pics. Some people really want to help and some are insecure or just kind of self-centered and want to center themselves. So try forestalling everything right off the bat, tell them how very helpful they're being by giving you space unlike some unnamed others, and send them pictures to make them feel special.
If they can't deal with that, then honestly, just don't worry about them.
If people really want to leave things at the door that you could use, tell them 'only if it's no trouble. We might not be able to answer the door when you come by!'
(Also even if it's hard for your husband to socialize, it's hard for you to be handling everything too, so hopefully he's trying to do as much for you as possible. He also has a perfect excuse now for things like for conversations: 'sorry, we're having a bit of a hectic moment with the baby, I've got to get back to helping YOAC! It's crazy! Bye!')
About your mom, if this kind of thing happens a lot (where she wants to do things for you that you don't need) you could try tactics like 'that's so nice, what a great grandma, give me some time to think about it, I want to pick when things quiet down a little' or 'I couldn't see anything on the site that I wanted, but what I would love is something colorful in a modern style with a rainbow on it' or 'instead of a needlepoint to hang, do you think you could embroider a blanket/make a doll?' (or whatever) - the point being to channel her impulses to a direction more useful to you.
posted by trig at 11:07 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
FYI, if you want the [food delivery], it’s maybe a bit rude but totally understandable to text something like, “if you leave it on my doorstep and text me when you’re gone, your generosity would be greatly appreciated.”
posted by Night_owl at 11:10 AM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Night_owl at 11:10 AM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks, all! Just one more point for clarification in case people think I’m being extra-mean; parents have definitely visited, just not friends. My mom is very pushy and got herself in the delivery room even when the nurses and I told her not to come into the delivery room. She’s since been over and is guilting me as we speak for not having taken pictures of the baby in front of the Christmas tree yet (I said, “Please don’t guilt me; I simply haven’t had the time yet but it doesn’t mean I don’t care,” and she said, “Well, we’ve been checking for one since we got up this morning, but forget I asked!”) and for asking her to perhaps upload only one or two pictures of her dog to the online baby album we’re sharing between my family and my husband’s family (“Fine, I’ll just remove ALL of my pictures from the album!”), so I’m beginning to perhaps see that I’m being too polite and also where I got the concern that if I don’t coddle people’s feelings when I reply, it’ll only make their behavior worse, and that’s making me seem indirect. Of course not everyone will react like my mom; I just needed help to sort that out and be told I didn’t have to manage their feelings and should be very direct.
Thank you. <3
(Oh, also, in city so no doorstep. Kind gifts would be stolen!)
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 11:11 AM on December 25, 2018 [25 favorites]
Thank you. <3
(Oh, also, in city so no doorstep. Kind gifts would be stolen!)
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 11:11 AM on December 25, 2018 [25 favorites]
“Fine, I’ll just remove ALL of my pictures from the album!”
Correct response here would be "if that's how you'd prefer to do it, be my guest."
You just had a baby, so don't worry about putting more stuff on your to-do list, but when you're recovered, it's probably going to be time to rein this sort of thing in, hard, so you and your new little family aren't under constant assault. Let her sulk, it's ok. You're the one with the baby.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:23 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
Correct response here would be "if that's how you'd prefer to do it, be my guest."
You just had a baby, so don't worry about putting more stuff on your to-do list, but when you're recovered, it's probably going to be time to rein this sort of thing in, hard, so you and your new little family aren't under constant assault. Let her sulk, it's ok. You're the one with the baby.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:23 AM on December 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
I too have a partner who doesn't interact with humans much, and you know what's great about that? It means you probably have lots and lots of examples to draw upon for how to be in the presence of humans and not engage. A 30-minute conversation with someone who apparently lied about how they were "just dropping off a gift"? Feh! Do you think your husband would have even responded to whatever it was that she said after you said "thank you" that wasn't "good-bye!"? In your place, he'd have already been closing the door at that point, I'm guessing. You too can do this! Assume that people are going to accept and respect your boundary the first time you declare it, and proceed accordingly. Don't wait around, physically or mentally, to see what randomness they're going to come up with.
posted by teremala at 11:25 AM on December 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by teremala at 11:25 AM on December 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
Turn off your phone.
Put a note on the door that says Baby Sleeping / New Mom Resting Please do not disturb.
Ask Mom to needlepoint a Christmas tree decoration.
posted by Enid Lareg at 11:31 AM on December 25, 2018 [6 favorites]
Put a note on the door that says Baby Sleeping / New Mom Resting Please do not disturb.
Ask Mom to needlepoint a Christmas tree decoration.
posted by Enid Lareg at 11:31 AM on December 25, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm inferring that friend's wife does get it, did he try more contact after she messaged you? if not I'd ask a male friend who's been through this to talk to him (it sounds like he's the sort who thinks that his needs come 1st)
posted by brujita at 11:39 AM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by brujita at 11:39 AM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
My mom is very pushy and got herself in the delivery room even when the nurses and I told her not to come into the delivery room. She’s since been over and is guilting me as we speak for not having taken pictures of the baby in front of the Christmas tree yet (I said, “Please don’t guilt me; I simply haven’t had the time yet but it doesn’t mean I don’t care,” and she said, “Well, we’ve been checking for one since we got up this morning, but forget I asked!”) and for asking her to perhaps upload only one or two pictures of her dog to the online baby album we’re sharing between my family and my husband’s family (“Fine, I’ll just remove ALL of my pictures from the album!”), so I’m beginning to perhaps see that I’m being too polite and also where I got the concern that if I don’t coddle people’s feelings when I reply, it’ll only make their behavior worse, and that’s making me seem indirect. Of course not everyone will react like my mom; I just needed help to sort that out and be told I didn’t have to manage their feelings and should be very direct.
You need to shut this bullshit down hard, or your mom is going to be a complete nightmare for years. Babies make people lose their minds. If your mom has bad boundaries, and she is used to railroading you, she will make you miserable because she sees your baby as hers. You need to tell her no and mean it, and end the visit if she does passive-aggressive nonsense like you have described. Definitely be less polite. Tell her no to the needlepoint. Tell her to drop the photo requests, and that if she keeps asking she'll be off the photo sharing list for a month.
Hopefully you get the idea. Your job is to protect your baby and yourself, not coddle your mother.
Your husband needs to step up here. He doesn't like answering the door? Too fucking bad, he has a wife recovering from a major medical procedure while also caring for a newborn and he needs to act like an adult.
posted by medusa at 12:40 PM on December 25, 2018 [82 favorites]
You need to shut this bullshit down hard, or your mom is going to be a complete nightmare for years. Babies make people lose their minds. If your mom has bad boundaries, and she is used to railroading you, she will make you miserable because she sees your baby as hers. You need to tell her no and mean it, and end the visit if she does passive-aggressive nonsense like you have described. Definitely be less polite. Tell her no to the needlepoint. Tell her to drop the photo requests, and that if she keeps asking she'll be off the photo sharing list for a month.
Hopefully you get the idea. Your job is to protect your baby and yourself, not coddle your mother.
Your husband needs to step up here. He doesn't like answering the door? Too fucking bad, he has a wife recovering from a major medical procedure while also caring for a newborn and he needs to act like an adult.
posted by medusa at 12:40 PM on December 25, 2018 [82 favorites]
“My husband doesn’t really interact with people much (separate issue), so I would be the one answering the door, having conversations, etc.“
Sorry to sound harsh, but if ever there were a time for a husband to suck it up and step up to the plate, it’s now. This should not be falling entirely upon your shoulders and he should be helping take some of the pressure off you even if it’s difficult or uncomfortable for him. Fatherhood is going to come with a lot of interacting with other adults.
posted by fso at 12:45 PM on December 25, 2018 [75 favorites]
Sorry to sound harsh, but if ever there were a time for a husband to suck it up and step up to the plate, it’s now. This should not be falling entirely upon your shoulders and he should be helping take some of the pressure off you even if it’s difficult or uncomfortable for him. Fatherhood is going to come with a lot of interacting with other adults.
posted by fso at 12:45 PM on December 25, 2018 [75 favorites]
My mom is very pushy and got herself in the delivery room even when the nurses and I told her not to come into the delivery room.
That's actually really extreme. I mean I'm not sure if I would be able to forgive someone for doing that. Maybe if there are deeply ingrained cultural issues at play where doing that would be seen as acceptable - but even so, to be honest.
You know your mom, and your relationship with her, better than anyone here, so I don't feel like I could say what the best approach to her would be. But I just want to say that if you ever do decide to take a much harder line with her than you have up to now, you'd be more than justified in doing so.
posted by trig at 1:03 PM on December 25, 2018 [18 favorites]
That's actually really extreme. I mean I'm not sure if I would be able to forgive someone for doing that. Maybe if there are deeply ingrained cultural issues at play where doing that would be seen as acceptable - but even so, to be honest.
You know your mom, and your relationship with her, better than anyone here, so I don't feel like I could say what the best approach to her would be. But I just want to say that if you ever do decide to take a much harder line with her than you have up to now, you'd be more than justified in doing so.
posted by trig at 1:03 PM on December 25, 2018 [18 favorites]
It may be helpful to think of this in a slightly more transactional way. People are hungry to demonstrate support etc, and your polite defense is fending them off - but they will not be fended!
In this kind of situation I find what sometimes works is turning it around, so the request to leave you alone becomes the request for help. That way people will get the satisfaction of "helping" and you get the satisfaction of being left the eff alone.
An example would be, "Thanks so much for checking in and the offer of food, but we're absolutely bursting with groceries and don't know what to do with all of them, we're swamped. We're just really enjoying our time with [baby], while I recover and we adapt to this new pattern. The most helpful thing we're finding right now is just some space, so I'll be sure to reach out when we need something."
This statement frames their proposed help as problematic, and tells them what you really want. That way, people feel like they've ticked their "help out" box, without actually doing anything, and hopefully you'll get some peace. Note: I don't think this will work with your mum, I think you need to be really upfront with her at some point. This will no doubt result in (more) histrionics and nonsense, but it's a reckoning that will have to come sooner or later, I'd wager.
Also, dunno what your husbands deal is but you just literally made life in your body, and now you're sustaining it. Husbands start the parenting game at a huge deficit because of this; he really needs to put on his big boy pants and step up, protecting you and your child from this crap. Barring major disability, it's his actual job as a father.
posted by smoke at 1:05 PM on December 25, 2018 [15 favorites]
In this kind of situation I find what sometimes works is turning it around, so the request to leave you alone becomes the request for help. That way people will get the satisfaction of "helping" and you get the satisfaction of being left the eff alone.
An example would be, "Thanks so much for checking in and the offer of food, but we're absolutely bursting with groceries and don't know what to do with all of them, we're swamped. We're just really enjoying our time with [baby], while I recover and we adapt to this new pattern. The most helpful thing we're finding right now is just some space, so I'll be sure to reach out when we need something."
This statement frames their proposed help as problematic, and tells them what you really want. That way, people feel like they've ticked their "help out" box, without actually doing anything, and hopefully you'll get some peace. Note: I don't think this will work with your mum, I think you need to be really upfront with her at some point. This will no doubt result in (more) histrionics and nonsense, but it's a reckoning that will have to come sooner or later, I'd wager.
Also, dunno what your husbands deal is but you just literally made life in your body, and now you're sustaining it. Husbands start the parenting game at a huge deficit because of this; he really needs to put on his big boy pants and step up, protecting you and your child from this crap. Barring major disability, it's his actual job as a father.
posted by smoke at 1:05 PM on December 25, 2018 [15 favorites]
I see you've already got what you needed above from favorited answers, but I would like to add how these other people may be experiencing your "no" responses (not to imply that you are IN ANY WAY responsible for it):
Many people think about themselves and their own feelings before those of anyone else (this doesn't make them bad people; it just means they're slightly less good at taking care of their own issues than others may be), and people hate to feel excluded from big events that involve their friends/relations. It's possible, even probable, that your "no"s are being heard as "you, personally, are not allowed to come visit/make a needlepoint/whatever, but others are."
You don't have to take on the burden of soothing other people when right now your first priority is rightly your infant and your recovery, but adding something like "It's not you; we're very purposely not having visitors right now" or whatever might get them to pipe down when they realize they're making it about themselves.
posted by tzikeh at 1:13 PM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Many people think about themselves and their own feelings before those of anyone else (this doesn't make them bad people; it just means they're slightly less good at taking care of their own issues than others may be), and people hate to feel excluded from big events that involve their friends/relations. It's possible, even probable, that your "no"s are being heard as "you, personally, are not allowed to come visit/make a needlepoint/whatever, but others are."
You don't have to take on the burden of soothing other people when right now your first priority is rightly your infant and your recovery, but adding something like "It's not you; we're very purposely not having visitors right now" or whatever might get them to pipe down when they realize they're making it about themselves.
posted by tzikeh at 1:13 PM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Can you set an actual date, weeks down the track when you think you might be up for company, and have a baby’s coming out day? Maybe get your mum to host it, then she can feel involved and it’s one less thing for you to do. That way when people ask if they can come and see the baby, they get told you’d love to see them on x date in three weeks time and you can’t wait to see their needlepoint/goblin painting of your baby/puce and orange baby blanket.
That way they feel validated and like you want to involve them in this, without actually getting in your face, you get to maintain these relationships when you’re actually up to it and your mother gets to feel helpful. You don’t even have to be the one to pass this message on, the beauty of this is that your husband does it, because guess what, that’s now his job. He gets to feel helpful too!
posted by Jubey at 2:21 PM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
That way they feel validated and like you want to involve them in this, without actually getting in your face, you get to maintain these relationships when you’re actually up to it and your mother gets to feel helpful. You don’t even have to be the one to pass this message on, the beauty of this is that your husband does it, because guess what, that’s now his job. He gets to feel helpful too!
posted by Jubey at 2:21 PM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Suggest a different date - “how about next week” or “sounds great but today’s not good. Can we check in on Tuesday/after the New Year/mid-January” depending on context
posted by bunderful at 3:23 PM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by bunderful at 3:23 PM on December 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Your question didn’t make any sense to me (“who doesn’t want a steak with no strings attached and a needlepoint from their mother for their baby?”) until I kept reading your responses and saw that 1) your mom is a pushy manipulator with narcissistic tendencies and 2) your husband apparently is afraid to answer the door after you just had a difficult birth.
Your mom will never listen unless you get very direct and also lucky. Your friends simply just don’t understand because they’re offering you a steak + zero social interaction and you’re saying “but I can’t have visitors now!” It doesn’t make sense. When people get a response with a reason attached and the reason doesn’t make emotional or logical sense, they assume you’re hedging or being coy. If you had a reason— “I can’t come to the door and husband is shy,” or “husband is really excited to cook the steak himself,” whatever— they’d probably be more primed to listen.
You could also just accept the help and be firm in saying “thank you so much! I need to go lie down now!” If you sense that this will upset them inordinately, then your friends are also pushy and manipulative and not merely at a loss.
posted by stoneandstar at 3:23 PM on December 25, 2018 [12 favorites]
Your mom will never listen unless you get very direct and also lucky. Your friends simply just don’t understand because they’re offering you a steak + zero social interaction and you’re saying “but I can’t have visitors now!” It doesn’t make sense. When people get a response with a reason attached and the reason doesn’t make emotional or logical sense, they assume you’re hedging or being coy. If you had a reason— “I can’t come to the door and husband is shy,” or “husband is really excited to cook the steak himself,” whatever— they’d probably be more primed to listen.
You could also just accept the help and be firm in saying “thank you so much! I need to go lie down now!” If you sense that this will upset them inordinately, then your friends are also pushy and manipulative and not merely at a loss.
posted by stoneandstar at 3:23 PM on December 25, 2018 [12 favorites]
I am 41 weeks pregnant right now and am also having a lot of trouble getting people to listen to me and respect reasonable boundaries. This is definitely a thing.
I am observing it’s especially hard for friends and family who are used to you handling their emotions delicately. You are rightly exhausted and shouldn’t have to be doing this. It’s new for my husband too so he hasn’t always been able to pick up on this stuff right away, but I’ve had some luck getting him to go to bat for me after I explain how/why situations are hard for me.
Solidarity and good luck!
posted by Concordia at 3:39 PM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I am observing it’s especially hard for friends and family who are used to you handling their emotions delicately. You are rightly exhausted and shouldn’t have to be doing this. It’s new for my husband too so he hasn’t always been able to pick up on this stuff right away, but I’ve had some luck getting him to go to bat for me after I explain how/why situations are hard for me.
Solidarity and good luck!
posted by Concordia at 3:39 PM on December 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Honestly, all your examples are fairly indirect.
So one thing I think is important to note is not just that your “no” is indirect, but that some of your “no”s are sounding like “obligatory first refusal” that is a part of certain cultural dances, rather than a hard no.
So - example in my life. I just said to my mom “Man, I got a tree too big for the amount of ornaments I had, haha!” She immediately said, “oh, do you want me to send the ornaments from our tree?” I then said “Oh no, mom, that’s too much trouble” - signaling that it was sweet and I accepted the thought, but I didn’t want her to feel obligated to follow through with the offer. She then explained how it wasn’t a bother and she would love to. If I really wanted to say no, I would have had to give a different type of no, focused on my own needs, rather than a no focused on hers, if that makes sense?
So instead of saying things like “I really like my decor”, you would say things like “mom, I’ve been dreaming of my baby’s room for months and have finally got it just perfect. I don’t want a single extra thing to take away from my vision. Maybe you could make a blanket instead?” You’re making the no about you, and redirecting her energy.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on December 25, 2018 [14 favorites]
So one thing I think is important to note is not just that your “no” is indirect, but that some of your “no”s are sounding like “obligatory first refusal” that is a part of certain cultural dances, rather than a hard no.
So - example in my life. I just said to my mom “Man, I got a tree too big for the amount of ornaments I had, haha!” She immediately said, “oh, do you want me to send the ornaments from our tree?” I then said “Oh no, mom, that’s too much trouble” - signaling that it was sweet and I accepted the thought, but I didn’t want her to feel obligated to follow through with the offer. She then explained how it wasn’t a bother and she would love to. If I really wanted to say no, I would have had to give a different type of no, focused on my own needs, rather than a no focused on hers, if that makes sense?
So instead of saying things like “I really like my decor”, you would say things like “mom, I’ve been dreaming of my baby’s room for months and have finally got it just perfect. I don’t want a single extra thing to take away from my vision. Maybe you could make a blanket instead?” You’re making the no about you, and redirecting her energy.
posted by corb at 3:58 PM on December 25, 2018 [14 favorites]
Mod note: A couple deleted. "Just do the thing you don't want to do" isn't a helpful answer to the actual question; in fact, it's pretty much the precise opposite. Please just stick to the question OP asked.
posted by taz (staff) at 1:19 AM on December 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 1:19 AM on December 26, 2018 [3 favorites]
I am coming at this from the perspective of someone who has never been pregnant and doesn't know anything about recovery except "stitches, and it's hard?":
I have been told that one of the best ways to support new parents is to bring food. Bring food, they say! Or provide gift cards! Or a restaurant delivery! In your examples, I would interpret your responses as "Oh no, I couldn't possibly!", underscored by the worry that it's too much trouble for me to do Thing for you, and as a result I am trying desperately to assure you that no, it's really OK, I promise! So not so much "Mothers don't know what's good for them" as "She's trying to be polite and not put me out and I just have to convince her that I'm happy to help". (though honestly my feelings wouldn't be hurt at the end if you kept rejecting me)
So I would be even more direct. Maybe "I need some quiet time to heal before I even get up to get the mail, so can you put a pin in that offer and I will take you up later?" Leave out "I will take you up later" if you never want to take them up, obviously. Clueless people like myself (well, having read this question I am now less clueless) may not realize the degree of literal physical and psychological healing that needs to go on post-baby and are taking cues entirely from Ms. Manners.
Also, if there are offers that you would like to take people up on but can't have the 30 minute at-the-door conversations--your husband really does need to pull some weight here and run interference. For as much as it sucks for him to answer the door, it sucks more to birth a watermelon and have stitches all over your business/have your abdominal wall cut open/experience massive physical trauma. He can answer the door, say you're sleeping, and understand that in exchange for not carrying a baby for nine months he just has to have a few awkward conversations.
I think the problem with your mom is different, in that she's a jerk.
posted by Anonymous at 7:45 AM on December 26, 2018
I have been told that one of the best ways to support new parents is to bring food. Bring food, they say! Or provide gift cards! Or a restaurant delivery! In your examples, I would interpret your responses as "Oh no, I couldn't possibly!", underscored by the worry that it's too much trouble for me to do Thing for you, and as a result I am trying desperately to assure you that no, it's really OK, I promise! So not so much "Mothers don't know what's good for them" as "She's trying to be polite and not put me out and I just have to convince her that I'm happy to help". (though honestly my feelings wouldn't be hurt at the end if you kept rejecting me)
So I would be even more direct. Maybe "I need some quiet time to heal before I even get up to get the mail, so can you put a pin in that offer and I will take you up later?" Leave out "I will take you up later" if you never want to take them up, obviously. Clueless people like myself (well, having read this question I am now less clueless) may not realize the degree of literal physical and psychological healing that needs to go on post-baby and are taking cues entirely from Ms. Manners.
Also, if there are offers that you would like to take people up on but can't have the 30 minute at-the-door conversations--your husband really does need to pull some weight here and run interference. For as much as it sucks for him to answer the door, it sucks more to birth a watermelon and have stitches all over your business/have your abdominal wall cut open/experience massive physical trauma. He can answer the door, say you're sleeping, and understand that in exchange for not carrying a baby for nine months he just has to have a few awkward conversations.
I think the problem with your mom is different, in that she's a jerk.
posted by Anonymous at 7:45 AM on December 26, 2018
Re: dropping off food: my husband's cousins came over when i was maybe six days postpartum with my first baby. They literally handed me two big disposable containers of pasta through the door and left. I tried to invite them in to see the baby (despite not really feeling up to having visitors, i love those girls and it would have been fine) but they said "No no no, we'll come back in a couple weeks for a visit. Just take the food, we love you, bye." and ran off. And it was perfect and I will be forever grateful to them for understanding and doing exactly the right thing in that situation.
posted by beandip at 7:53 AM on December 26, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by beandip at 7:53 AM on December 26, 2018 [5 favorites]
You're not doing anything wrong. You're being polite and communicating in a normal way for you, and people who should know better are steamrolling over it because they're making this all about them. Well-meaning people do this sometimes. I've done it, you've probably done it. It is just tremendously extra-frustrating when a whole bunch of people are doing it at once in the sort of circumstances (YOU JUST GAVE BIRTH) that should make them pause and take a step back.
Say no, and then don't answer any further texts from that person for hours, or even days. You are not obligated to reliably respond to other people right now. You're not being mean or rude. You're not permanently driving away your friends and family. Ignore your doorbell and any knocks. (I find this to actually be perversely satisfying.)
The only small thing I'd suggest about the way you say no is to keep a more alert eye out for the moment that the chatty discussion turns into them having a Bright! Idea! For a favor! That they want to deliver now! As soon as the suggestion hits, reply with "no thank you" and then take that as a sign that it's time to step out of the conversation for now. You can exit with a "okay, I need to go feed the baby/other mom task now" or you can just ghost and later claim that you drifted off for a nap.
posted by desuetude at 8:19 AM on December 26, 2018
Say no, and then don't answer any further texts from that person for hours, or even days. You are not obligated to reliably respond to other people right now. You're not being mean or rude. You're not permanently driving away your friends and family. Ignore your doorbell and any knocks. (I find this to actually be perversely satisfying.)
The only small thing I'd suggest about the way you say no is to keep a more alert eye out for the moment that the chatty discussion turns into them having a Bright! Idea! For a favor! That they want to deliver now! As soon as the suggestion hits, reply with "no thank you" and then take that as a sign that it's time to step out of the conversation for now. You can exit with a "okay, I need to go feed the baby/other mom task now" or you can just ghost and later claim that you drifted off for a nap.
posted by desuetude at 8:19 AM on December 26, 2018
Re: friends, I agree with someone above who said your responses sound like "Oh no, I couldn't possibly!" rather than actual refusals. I also agree with those saying that part of the issue is that your responses don't always address what the person has offered. To me, there's a big disconnect if they are offering to drop off food and you're saying "no visitors yet" - to me, and to others it seems, dropping off food does not equal a visit, so they're trying to clear things up by saying "oh we won't visit, we'll just ring your bell and leave the food" or whatever. If you firmly address their actual offers, I think you can nip their well-meaning offers in the bud:
"We'll drop off a steak!"
"Thank you so much but I'm in so much pain that I can't even get up and walk to the door"
OR
"We already have more food than we can possibly eat"
And then tell them you will reach out next month or whatever.
Your mom is a totally different situation. On the one hand, I think that your baby may very well cherish this gift from grandma one day. On the other hand, your mom also sounds inappropriately pushy wrt the delivery room incident :(
posted by sunflower16 at 9:03 AM on December 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
"We'll drop off a steak!"
"Thank you so much but I'm in so much pain that I can't even get up and walk to the door"
OR
"We already have more food than we can possibly eat"
And then tell them you will reach out next month or whatever.
Your mom is a totally different situation. On the one hand, I think that your baby may very well cherish this gift from grandma one day. On the other hand, your mom also sounds inappropriately pushy wrt the delivery room incident :(
posted by sunflower16 at 9:03 AM on December 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Sorry, I’ll stop updating after this as I know this is MeFi, not a convo, etc., but you can read the tiny “(separate issue)” parenthetical when I describe my husband’s relunctance to answer the door as saying his really debilitating social anxiety is a thing we’re working on in therapy, especially since he knows he’ll have to do so much of it now! He definitely knows it’s Not Normal and wants to be rid of it, and we’ve made improvements, but it’s a whole deeply entrenched family-of-origin type thing that’s taking some time to resolve. I really appreciate the concern over it in the comments.
Re: my mom, this is new-ish behavior from her over the last two years; it’s really bonkers and I’m keeping an eye on it.
Every comment here is a treasure and I appreciate all of them. Thank you so much!!
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 9:11 AM on December 26, 2018 [8 favorites]
Re: my mom, this is new-ish behavior from her over the last two years; it’s really bonkers and I’m keeping an eye on it.
Every comment here is a treasure and I appreciate all of them. Thank you so much!!
posted by Yoko Ono's Advice Column at 9:11 AM on December 26, 2018 [8 favorites]
Re: Husband - the two of you might be able to come up with a script for him that allows him to accept gifts with a minimum of interaction. "Thank you so much; sorry not to invite you in, but she and the baby are recovering and we're really not up for even basic social."
Or: "Thank you so much; sorry not to invite you in, but wife is recovering and we're trying to minimize baby's contact with the outside world for the first few weeks."
Either can be enhanced with, "we plan on having a gathering in a few weeks/couple of months so everyone can meet the baby, and we look forward to seeing you then."
Re: Mom - glad to hear this is new, and not part of a lifelong pattern of "she tries to own your life." She may be panicking because, between spouse and impending baby, she's aware that she will never again have the influence over you that she thinks she should. And as others have said, the time to shut that down is now, and quickly, before it shifts from "occasional nuisance" into "direct harassment."
Options for the unwanted needlepoint include, "Oh, we packed it away so that Baby can enjoy it when he/she is older; we wouldn't want it to get damaged in the meantime," (which can get you about three years, and then you can place it somewhere easily visible to Baby instead of easily viewable by visitors) or filling that spot on the wall with something else--possibly something educational or practical (which is not what you wanted, but might still be preferred to the needlepoint), or just putting up with it and setting firmer boundaries for future interactions, especially gift-based ones.
Try to allow yourself a couple of months of no-excuses these-are-my-preference statements. "No, please don't; thank you for the offer, but no." No, I don't want lunch from there. I would like a blanket, the blue fuzzy one, not the green one with the stripes. (You are not under any obligation to say "the blue one is softer;" you can just not want to look at stripes right now and that's also okay.) Juice, not coffee. Coffee, not juice. I changed my mind; I would like to go to the store. Please don't get any carrots; I'm not feeling well and right now the smell makes me feel sick. (This disclaimer is necessary; otherwise, they're likely to get carrots thinking that you can just avoid eating them.)
Practice not giving explanations for your preferences in order to avoid weird arguments about "if I show you that your reasoning is flawed, you have to change your mind." You don't have to change your mind; you are allowed to just want things, or not want things, for no reasons at all. Part of the "have new baby" experience is an overwhelming wave of "I do not have the energy to analyze my preferences." You are busy with baby-ing; you don't need to explain why you want a coffee cup instead of a wineglass or vice versa; you don't even need to figure out why.
There will be days when just knowing, "I want it this way, not that way" will be a major achievement in focus and self-affirmation. Practice stating those opinions without getting caught up in justifying them.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:13 PM on December 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
Or: "Thank you so much; sorry not to invite you in, but wife is recovering and we're trying to minimize baby's contact with the outside world for the first few weeks."
Either can be enhanced with, "we plan on having a gathering in a few weeks/couple of months so everyone can meet the baby, and we look forward to seeing you then."
Re: Mom - glad to hear this is new, and not part of a lifelong pattern of "she tries to own your life." She may be panicking because, between spouse and impending baby, she's aware that she will never again have the influence over you that she thinks she should. And as others have said, the time to shut that down is now, and quickly, before it shifts from "occasional nuisance" into "direct harassment."
Options for the unwanted needlepoint include, "Oh, we packed it away so that Baby can enjoy it when he/she is older; we wouldn't want it to get damaged in the meantime," (which can get you about three years, and then you can place it somewhere easily visible to Baby instead of easily viewable by visitors) or filling that spot on the wall with something else--possibly something educational or practical (which is not what you wanted, but might still be preferred to the needlepoint), or just putting up with it and setting firmer boundaries for future interactions, especially gift-based ones.
Try to allow yourself a couple of months of no-excuses these-are-my-preference statements. "No, please don't; thank you for the offer, but no." No, I don't want lunch from there. I would like a blanket, the blue fuzzy one, not the green one with the stripes. (You are not under any obligation to say "the blue one is softer;" you can just not want to look at stripes right now and that's also okay.) Juice, not coffee. Coffee, not juice. I changed my mind; I would like to go to the store. Please don't get any carrots; I'm not feeling well and right now the smell makes me feel sick. (This disclaimer is necessary; otherwise, they're likely to get carrots thinking that you can just avoid eating them.)
Practice not giving explanations for your preferences in order to avoid weird arguments about "if I show you that your reasoning is flawed, you have to change your mind." You don't have to change your mind; you are allowed to just want things, or not want things, for no reasons at all. Part of the "have new baby" experience is an overwhelming wave of "I do not have the energy to analyze my preferences." You are busy with baby-ing; you don't need to explain why you want a coffee cup instead of a wineglass or vice versa; you don't even need to figure out why.
There will be days when just knowing, "I want it this way, not that way" will be a major achievement in focus and self-affirmation. Practice stating those opinions without getting caught up in justifying them.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:13 PM on December 26, 2018 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Your friends sound a lot like mine. Super nice, super polite, super helpful, keep on texting asking how they can help, wanting to just drop off some food.
We had a baby 4 weeks ago, and around the 2-week mark we took our friends up on their offers to just drop food off twice. Both times resulted in 2.5-3 hour long visits where dropping off food meant they wanted to serve it to us in our kitchen and then eat together while sitting and talking and holding the baby. This was not my understanding of “dropping off food.” But it’s been my experience in the past 4 weeks that nobody else seems to agree with my definition of just dropping off food which is hand over the food and go. Everybody else seems to think it simply means not staying all day. On the other hand, the food was nice!
But I would suggest that if the food is not worth a visit to you, then give them a clear no and a clear deadline as to when they can expect to be called upon for help. Something like “Thanks so much, but we are really okay for now. I will let you know if we need anything at the end of January.”
posted by spicytunaroll at 11:46 AM on December 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
We had a baby 4 weeks ago, and around the 2-week mark we took our friends up on their offers to just drop food off twice. Both times resulted in 2.5-3 hour long visits where dropping off food meant they wanted to serve it to us in our kitchen and then eat together while sitting and talking and holding the baby. This was not my understanding of “dropping off food.” But it’s been my experience in the past 4 weeks that nobody else seems to agree with my definition of just dropping off food which is hand over the food and go. Everybody else seems to think it simply means not staying all day. On the other hand, the food was nice!
But I would suggest that if the food is not worth a visit to you, then give them a clear no and a clear deadline as to when they can expect to be called upon for help. Something like “Thanks so much, but we are really okay for now. I will let you know if we need anything at the end of January.”
posted by spicytunaroll at 11:46 AM on December 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
People are weird around pregnancy and birth.
If you have an assertive best friend, perhaps you could deputize them to channel people's energies? I've definitely seen that phenomenon where a best friend runs a meal train or otherwise channels people's generosity.
One thing about this period, you really do not have to be nice. People are acting weird, whatever, you don't have to text them back, you don't have to let your mother come over at all, let alone force you to accept a needlepoint and a photo stream of dogs. You don't have to be friendly or sweet or cute or reasonable to pushy. If you are standoffish, or quiet, or angry, or sad, any reasonable person will be like "WHOA THIS PERSON JUST HAD A BABY, I WILL CUT THEM SOME SLACK."
Failing that, I think whoever suggested the "you-focused no" is on the money. "You're very kind, but we already got the nursery exactly how we want it." "You're very kind, but we have plenty of food and need to be alone in our baby cave now." If you say it like that, most people will back off.
posted by hungrytiger at 12:55 AM on December 29, 2018
If you have an assertive best friend, perhaps you could deputize them to channel people's energies? I've definitely seen that phenomenon where a best friend runs a meal train or otherwise channels people's generosity.
One thing about this period, you really do not have to be nice. People are acting weird, whatever, you don't have to text them back, you don't have to let your mother come over at all, let alone force you to accept a needlepoint and a photo stream of dogs. You don't have to be friendly or sweet or cute or reasonable to pushy. If you are standoffish, or quiet, or angry, or sad, any reasonable person will be like "WHOA THIS PERSON JUST HAD A BABY, I WILL CUT THEM SOME SLACK."
Failing that, I think whoever suggested the "you-focused no" is on the money. "You're very kind, but we already got the nursery exactly how we want it." "You're very kind, but we have plenty of food and need to be alone in our baby cave now." If you say it like that, most people will back off.
posted by hungrytiger at 12:55 AM on December 29, 2018
« Older Book recommendations for thinking about cognitive... | Where in Seattle should we put our aunt? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
Alternatively you could deputize a trusted friend/family member to do this for you. So when someone reaches out you can say, “thanks so much. Jane Doe is helping me schedule visitors/help so please reach out to her.”
posted by CMcG at 8:53 AM on December 25, 2018 [4 favorites]