Should I get a british passport?
February 20, 2006 10:56 AM Subscribe
What are the advantages or drawbacks in having double nationality and/or citizenship (within the EU or worldwide) ?
I am french, and plan on asking for british nationality (my father is english, i think it'll be relatively easy). But given that both UK and France are part of Europe and therefore citizens have the same rights (I am thinking in work terms... EU citizens can work anywhere in Europe) what would be my advantages in having both nationality?
I figure I could vote in UK at some point if I decide to live there. What else? Does aving a double nationality 'sells' when you're looking for a job anywhere?
Would be the citizen of a country that's part of a Commonwealth would help in any way should I choose to study in, say, Canada or Australia?
Finally - is there any drawbacks? I can't think of any, minus one: I'd have to eventually give up one of my citizenships if I one day choose to live and become a citizen of a non-european country, like the US of A...
I am french, and plan on asking for british nationality (my father is english, i think it'll be relatively easy). But given that both UK and France are part of Europe and therefore citizens have the same rights (I am thinking in work terms... EU citizens can work anywhere in Europe) what would be my advantages in having both nationality?
I figure I could vote in UK at some point if I decide to live there. What else? Does aving a double nationality 'sells' when you're looking for a job anywhere?
Would be the citizen of a country that's part of a Commonwealth would help in any way should I choose to study in, say, Canada or Australia?
Finally - is there any drawbacks? I can't think of any, minus one: I'd have to eventually give up one of my citizenships if I one day choose to live and become a citizen of a non-european country, like the US of A...
I have dual Australian/UK citizenship. I've never relinquished my Aussie identity, even though I've lived in the UK since I was very young, because if I ever wanted to go back to Oz, I could do so without the hassle of having to go through immigration.
(Also, if you have two passports, you can still flee the jurisdiction and fly off to Rio if you have to surrender the passport they know about as a bail condition.)
posted by essexjan at 11:09 AM on February 20, 2006
(Also, if you have two passports, you can still flee the jurisdiction and fly off to Rio if you have to surrender the passport they know about as a bail condition.)
posted by essexjan at 11:09 AM on February 20, 2006
From what I understand just by hearsay, unless you are actually a UK citizen that lives in the UK, you can't vote there. I knew expatriates in Spain that have lived there for a long time but still hold British citizenship. Apparently Thatcher passed some law that made it impossible for them to vote in Britain. Not sure if that matters.
You don't have to give up any EU citizenship to become a citizen in the US. That is an urban legend. I know many, many people with dual citizenship
posted by JJ86 at 11:12 AM on February 20, 2006
You don't have to give up any EU citizenship to become a citizen in the US. That is an urban legend. I know many, many people with dual citizenship
posted by JJ86 at 11:12 AM on February 20, 2006
Response by poster: Oh i meant, if i have both french and UK citizenship, then I couldn't have a third one: case in point, I was born on spain and could ask for spanish nationality (I think Spain still gives spanish nationality to people born in the country) but I do not think it's possible... Reason why I'd have to give either my UK or french nationality should I choose to permaently live elsewhere and become a citizen of another country...
I hope I make sense...
posted by Sijeka at 11:17 AM on February 20, 2006
I hope I make sense...
posted by Sijeka at 11:17 AM on February 20, 2006
You can vote aborad as a UK citizen if you fit into a set of criteria: there are details here.
My though on the dual citizenship thing would be that the only downside might be security clearances: I know that it may make getting government security clearances more complex (or impossible) if you are working on anything sensitive.
posted by baggers at 11:19 AM on February 20, 2006
My though on the dual citizenship thing would be that the only downside might be security clearances: I know that it may make getting government security clearances more complex (or impossible) if you are working on anything sensitive.
posted by baggers at 11:19 AM on February 20, 2006
Best answer: Advantages:
If there are jobs in the UK that are reserved for UK citizens, you'd be eligible. It's unlikely that there are more than a few government jobs that fit this, however.
If the EU goes blooey, you'd still be able to work and live in the UK.
Drawbacks:
Dealing with passports and tax codes might get messier, but hardly impossible to deal with.
You'd be liable for the duties-of-citizenship in both countries, so you'd be more easily conscriptable by the UK if they really wanted to draft you, though this seems very unlikely. More broadly, taking UK citizenship would mean that you would lose the ability to claim French citizenship against the UK.
I'd have to eventually give up one of my citizenships if I one day choose to live and become a citizen of a non-european country, like the US of A
That's not really true.
It *is* true that in part of the US citizenship oath you renounce any allegiance to any foreign potentate or power, blah blah blah.
But this is a statement to US officials, not to the officials of your home country. Your home country is free to go right on considering you its citizen as well if it wants to. To the UK, you'd still be a UK citizen even after taking the US citizenship oath. How France treats this I dunno.
Oh i meant, if i have both french and UK citizenship, then I couldn't have a third one
Nup. You can have lots of nationalities if they all fit. My bride will, if she chooses to take US citizenship in a year or so, be a triple-national: Canada, UK, US.
Think about how multiple nationality (normally) works. Hardly any country, AFAIK, "recognizes" dual nationality to the extent that it will treat one of its own citizens as a citizen of somewhere else instead. Instead, you just have multiple countries each treating you as their own citizen.
Right now France considers you its citizen, and the UK considers you a French citizen. If you took UK citizenship, France would still consider you French, and the UK would consider you British, but France would not consider you British and the UK would not consider you French.
Add US to the mix. The US would treat you as a US citizen, but never as a French or British one. Britain would treat you as a British citizen, but never as a US or French one. France would treat you as a French citizen, but never as a UK or US one.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:31 AM on February 20, 2006
If there are jobs in the UK that are reserved for UK citizens, you'd be eligible. It's unlikely that there are more than a few government jobs that fit this, however.
If the EU goes blooey, you'd still be able to work and live in the UK.
Drawbacks:
Dealing with passports and tax codes might get messier, but hardly impossible to deal with.
You'd be liable for the duties-of-citizenship in both countries, so you'd be more easily conscriptable by the UK if they really wanted to draft you, though this seems very unlikely. More broadly, taking UK citizenship would mean that you would lose the ability to claim French citizenship against the UK.
I'd have to eventually give up one of my citizenships if I one day choose to live and become a citizen of a non-european country, like the US of A
That's not really true.
It *is* true that in part of the US citizenship oath you renounce any allegiance to any foreign potentate or power, blah blah blah.
But this is a statement to US officials, not to the officials of your home country. Your home country is free to go right on considering you its citizen as well if it wants to. To the UK, you'd still be a UK citizen even after taking the US citizenship oath. How France treats this I dunno.
Oh i meant, if i have both french and UK citizenship, then I couldn't have a third one
Nup. You can have lots of nationalities if they all fit. My bride will, if she chooses to take US citizenship in a year or so, be a triple-national: Canada, UK, US.
Think about how multiple nationality (normally) works. Hardly any country, AFAIK, "recognizes" dual nationality to the extent that it will treat one of its own citizens as a citizen of somewhere else instead. Instead, you just have multiple countries each treating you as their own citizen.
Right now France considers you its citizen, and the UK considers you a French citizen. If you took UK citizenship, France would still consider you French, and the UK would consider you British, but France would not consider you British and the UK would not consider you French.
Add US to the mix. The US would treat you as a US citizen, but never as a French or British one. Britain would treat you as a British citizen, but never as a US or French one. France would treat you as a French citizen, but never as a UK or US one.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:31 AM on February 20, 2006
I'm not sure about the commonwealth benefits, if there are any. I'm pretty sure that if you want to go to Canada, you're just a plain old non-Canadian bum regardless of where you're from. Australia might have some more lax rules though.
posted by antifuse at 11:41 AM on February 20, 2006
posted by antifuse at 11:41 AM on February 20, 2006
Best answer: Would be the citizen of a country that's part of a Commonwealth would help in any way should I choose to study in, say, Canada or Australia?
Some. I'm an international student in Canada but NOT commonwealth, and I remember when looking for scholarships that there are a few reserved for commonwealth countries. Other than that: no difference.
There probably aren't any real drawbacks, aside from the hassle of renewing two passports. Are both countries okay with dual nationality? Not all countries are! If you plan on getting a third nationality, that might be one that requires you to give up BOTH passports.
If you'd have to keep only one, I'd personally pick British for the slight commonwealth benefits (see above), but most of the time that doesn't make any difference.
posted by easternblot at 12:00 PM on February 20, 2006
Some. I'm an international student in Canada but NOT commonwealth, and I remember when looking for scholarships that there are a few reserved for commonwealth countries. Other than that: no difference.
There probably aren't any real drawbacks, aside from the hassle of renewing two passports. Are both countries okay with dual nationality? Not all countries are! If you plan on getting a third nationality, that might be one that requires you to give up BOTH passports.
If you'd have to keep only one, I'd personally pick British for the slight commonwealth benefits (see above), but most of the time that doesn't make any difference.
posted by easternblot at 12:00 PM on February 20, 2006
I have US/Canada citizenship and from my experience the yuckiest thing about it is that my American friends always think of me as a Canuck and the Canadians think of me as a Yankee. I never get to be fully one or the other, though I feel that way. For example, recently an American friend told me she was insulted by my disagreeing with her about American politics since I'm Canadian. Stupid, I know, but those kinds of comments add up.
posted by wallaby at 12:00 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by wallaby at 12:00 PM on February 20, 2006
Does anyone know about the specifics of the tax codes? That could get really ugly if you had to pay double taxes.
posted by matkline at 12:03 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by matkline at 12:03 PM on February 20, 2006
Response by poster: Wallaby - I think it also depends on where you reside when you want to engage in political discussions...It sounds stupid to me as well, but maybe if you live in Canada and speaks about the US policies then people think ' but you're not even living here!'.
It's a (ignorant and ridiculous) drawback indeed...
posted by Sijeka at 12:06 PM on February 20, 2006
It's a (ignorant and ridiculous) drawback indeed...
posted by Sijeka at 12:06 PM on February 20, 2006
Response by poster: Tax codes - I am not sure but I'd think one would have to pay taxes in the country he or she currently resides in/works as well? (except if working abroad for a definite period of time for a company which sent him or her abroad?)
posted by Sijeka at 12:08 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by Sijeka at 12:08 PM on February 20, 2006
Taxes don't really have anything to do with your citizenship. You pay taxes where you work (or where you're a resident) and/or have assets. This can be in more than one country, but is independent of your citizenship.
Well I wouldn't be sure in the US, but this is definitely the case in France/UK.
posted by ClarissaWAM at 12:30 PM on February 20, 2006
Well I wouldn't be sure in the US, but this is definitely the case in France/UK.
posted by ClarissaWAM at 12:30 PM on February 20, 2006
The US wants US citizens to file tax returns even if they live abroad. There are tax treaties with lots of countries and very healthy exclusions of the first $BIGNUM of income.
Practically, I'm told that it boils down to this: unless you're very well off, you can expect to end up paying whichever tax rate is higher. If you pay more in ForeignLand, as you'd be likely to, you usually pay squat to the US; if you live somewhere with lower taxes, you pay the difference to the US. I gather this works out differently for rich people, who might actually get double-taxed. I have never had to do this, though, and am just reporting people's experiences from relevant discussion groups.
The filing requirements were, AFAIK, a response to rich people taking residence in the Bahamas or other tax-havens in order to avoid US taxes. For the same reason, it's actually very difficult to give up US citizenship even if you want to.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:56 PM on February 20, 2006
Practically, I'm told that it boils down to this: unless you're very well off, you can expect to end up paying whichever tax rate is higher. If you pay more in ForeignLand, as you'd be likely to, you usually pay squat to the US; if you live somewhere with lower taxes, you pay the difference to the US. I gather this works out differently for rich people, who might actually get double-taxed. I have never had to do this, though, and am just reporting people's experiences from relevant discussion groups.
The filing requirements were, AFAIK, a response to rich people taking residence in the Bahamas or other tax-havens in order to avoid US taxes. For the same reason, it's actually very difficult to give up US citizenship even if you want to.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:56 PM on February 20, 2006
Best answer: The tax situation really isn't that clear cut. As I understand it, Canada generally requires Canadian citizens to file a tax return declaring their world-wide income, unless they can fully demonstrate that they have no significant residential ties to Canada. They will then offset the amount of tax you owe Canada for your income based on the amount of tax you've paid those other countries on it, assuming that they have a tax treaty with that country.
Which isn't specifically relevent to the issues mentioned here, but as a general rule, you can't assume there are no tax implications to having two citizenships.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:58 PM on February 20, 2006
Which isn't specifically relevent to the issues mentioned here, but as a general rule, you can't assume there are no tax implications to having two citizenships.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:58 PM on February 20, 2006
The definition of who is "British" and who gets to carry a "British Passport" is probably more complex than most countries, and there are in fact many different flavours of "British Passport".
Non-"UK" nationals can still carry various varieties of "British Passports" that indicate their status as British Overseas Territories citizens , British Overseas citizens , British Nationals (Overseas) , British subjects or British protected persons.
I find it somewhat amusing that my grandmother remains a "British Subject" but that her particular status as a British Citizen is non-transferrable through blood and dies with her. Meanwhile, if you are one of the many hundreds of blue-bloods alive today that are related to Sophia of Hanover (1630-1714), as "the issue of her body" then you can get a British passport. Some Germans availed themselves of this loophole immediately after WW2.
posted by meehawl at 1:25 PM on February 20, 2006
Non-"UK" nationals can still carry various varieties of "British Passports" that indicate their status as British Overseas Territories citizens , British Overseas citizens , British Nationals (Overseas) , British subjects or British protected persons.
I find it somewhat amusing that my grandmother remains a "British Subject" but that her particular status as a British Citizen is non-transferrable through blood and dies with her. Meanwhile, if you are one of the many hundreds of blue-bloods alive today that are related to Sophia of Hanover (1630-1714), as "the issue of her body" then you can get a British passport. Some Germans availed themselves of this loophole immediately after WW2.
posted by meehawl at 1:25 PM on February 20, 2006
If you got a UK passport you'd be able to do a 'working holiday' thing in Australia. That would enable you to work in Australia for 2 years. If you did this and liked it you may well be able to arrange something after that.
posted by sien at 2:01 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by sien at 2:01 PM on February 20, 2006
In order to keep your records straight, you'll need to carry both passports with you whenever you travel internationally, which can be a pain
That's not necessarily the case. I have two passports (NZ and British) and have never needed to carry both with me.
posted by nomis at 3:39 PM on February 20, 2006
That's not necessarily the case. I have two passports (NZ and British) and have never needed to carry both with me.
posted by nomis at 3:39 PM on February 20, 2006
That's not necessarily the case. I have two passports (NZ and British) and have never needed to carry both with me.
Agreed, it's not necessary, but it can save a lot of time/explaining if you happen to be traveling between the two particular countries for which you hold passports.
posted by juv3nal at 5:50 PM on February 20, 2006
juv3nal: Why? I fly from NZ and enter the UK (or any other EU country) on my British passport, then go back to NZ on my NZ passport. No explanations required. Not even any stamps.
posted by nomis at 7:55 PM on February 20, 2006
posted by nomis at 7:55 PM on February 20, 2006
The working holiday visa for Australia is also available to French citizens (see here for the list of countries involved) and is also only for 12 months (although under certain circumstances you can apply for a second one).
As far as tax goes, I have dual Australian/UK citizenship. I pay tax based solely on my residency, so as far as Australia goes, I pay tax if I have resided in australia for some particular proportion of the tax year, and then I tell them what I earned while overseas, and also what tax I paid, and they take that off my bill. Because most people in the UK don't file tax returns, if I work there I would be paying normal tax rates, but if I don't work there for a full year, I can claim some of it back at the end.
There are some benefits that are only available to residents of the country: for instance, although I am a UK national, I am not eligible for an E128 showing that I am covered by UK health insurance when I go to France, and will have to buy my own. I don't know what the list of benefits is and whether there are many that wouldn't apply to 'EU residents' in general.
posted by jacalata at 7:56 PM on February 20, 2006
As far as tax goes, I have dual Australian/UK citizenship. I pay tax based solely on my residency, so as far as Australia goes, I pay tax if I have resided in australia for some particular proportion of the tax year, and then I tell them what I earned while overseas, and also what tax I paid, and they take that off my bill. Because most people in the UK don't file tax returns, if I work there I would be paying normal tax rates, but if I don't work there for a full year, I can claim some of it back at the end.
There are some benefits that are only available to residents of the country: for instance, although I am a UK national, I am not eligible for an E128 showing that I am covered by UK health insurance when I go to France, and will have to buy my own. I don't know what the list of benefits is and whether there are many that wouldn't apply to 'EU residents' in general.
posted by jacalata at 7:56 PM on February 20, 2006
juv3nal: Why? I fly from NZ and enter the UK (or any other EU country) on my British passport, then go back to NZ on my NZ passport. No explanations required. Not even any stamps.
You just contradicted yourself there...supposing a round trip originating from NZ going to UK and going back to NZ, you just described using *both* passports...
The issue is that if you have a one way ticket (say you intend to pick up the return ticket at your destination) and you attempt to enter the country for which you currently don't have a passport on you, they may want to shuffle you over to immigration as a "risk" for not leaving the country (illegal immigrant).
posted by juv3nal at 6:32 PM on February 21, 2006
juv3nal: Sure, if I only carry one passport it can be a hassle (as you point out). But anyone has who holds only one passport is in the same situation, so it's not a disadvantage specific to holders of two passports. And if I choose to carry both, then travel is easier (assuming it's between NZ and EU).
And Faint of Butt's original "minor drawback" was that "you'll need to carry both passports with you whenever you travel internationally" - and that isn't true.
posted by nomis at 1:49 AM on February 22, 2006
And Faint of Butt's original "minor drawback" was that "you'll need to carry both passports with you whenever you travel internationally" - and that isn't true.
posted by nomis at 1:49 AM on February 22, 2006
And Faint of Butt's original "minor drawback" was that "you'll need to carry both passports with you whenever you travel internationally" - and that isn't true.
...yeah, but i agreed with you on that point.
posted by juv3nal at 8:01 PM on February 22, 2006
...yeah, but i agreed with you on that point.
posted by juv3nal at 8:01 PM on February 22, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:07 AM on February 20, 2006