How to proceed with a new friendship after feeling triggered?
December 18, 2018 9:10 AM Subscribe
An online friend said something that activated past stress and pain. We are just getting to know each other and processing this now feels like a heavy lift.
My friend (M) and I (F) met through an online community that is part social group, part peer support. We're getting to know each other through chat and I think there's a feeling of romantic potential on both sides -- but, living in different places and not having talked about goals or anything, we hold it loosely. I trust his character based what I've seen so far. We did have one group interaction via video and I was looking forward to video chatting 1:1 when it felt right.
Recently he asked for my address to send a gift. I gave it to him without thinking. He offered his in exchange saying it would feel more balanced and less creepy. I said "It's only creepy if you make it creepy, hahaha." He wrote, "No promises."
It threw me for a hard loop. I felt activated and triggered. It made me feel insecure, physically. My mind held two realities -- one that I was actually safe, and one that I was so unsafe.
He apologized right away. We chatted later and he apologized again. I shared how it felt to me and we agreed to check in another time. He has been respectful and honoring of my process. This week he brought it up again and offered to talk if I felt ready, through whatever mode I would choose, but also articulating the value of a video chat so we could at least see each other.
I don't know how to proceed and I can't afford a therapist till January so I wondered if you could reflect what you are hearing, share thoughts, and maybe that will help me sort things out. Which of the below are things to dial up the volume on, and what could be turned down?
---THE TWO OF US
- This group in general, and the conversations with him, got to a point of vulnerability that I hadn't reckoned with. I think part of the shock at his words as realizing how vulnerable I feel in general with the group and him.
- His comment creeped me out and it made me wonder if he is low-key planning something creepy or if it reflects an unconscious creepy nature.
- The comment felt like a violation of intimacy -- so to respond with a video chat for the first time, which builds intimacy, feels odd.
- He's been checking back in every couple days because I mentioned that I find that helpful. In the meantime we did keep chatting casually, but we both were aware that we'd come back to this.
- Usually I prefer not to get too close to people who are far away, too quickly, since it can be confusing. If this hadn't happened I think we might have set up a low-pressure in-person meetup in the next few months.
- So one some level perhaps this feels like it ... forces? ... intimacy at a pace I didn't want. But I do want to have that conversation with him, and hear him say he doesn't have creepy intentions (or whatever it is he'll say) and feel some reconciliation.
- He hasn't done anything that feels boundary-pushing, creepy or strange aside from that comment. I feel that he is doing emotional labor in this and other areas. If I said I wasn't comfortable to keep talking, he'd respect that.
---RELATIONSHIPS GENERALLY
- The way he's holding space for me is gorgeous and feels lifegiving. I just want to soak it up because I feel like it gives the emotional breadth to just... breathe, process, and feel everything I'm feeling and respond accordingly.
- I'm worried I'll take advantage of the space he's holding to the point he feels hurt (he wants to apologize more deeply) or decides to leave me behind.
- On the other side of anxiety, I wonder if I'll get too close to him because I like how this feels so very much, and I'll forget to care about all the other things that matter to compatibility.
- I have some relational / pure OCD and my therapist has treated me for that in the past through exposure. I wonder what the right exposure is here -- to feel the discomfort of not being connected with him while I process this? Or to talk and let him apologize before I feel I've processed everything?
- It feels like this--the friendship, potential dating thing, whatever it is--could be really GOOD in so many ways since I know we are both here to respect each other, support each other's growth and take responsibility to grow in the ways we each want/need to.
---MY PAST
- (My earlier AskMes are fair game.)
- I have a general fear of vulnerability and feeling that someone will force me to do something I don't want to -- emotionally or otherwise -- so I am feeling like, "How could I have given him such access to me that I can now feel so hurt?" And I know this is a protective stance that maybe I want to be dismantling
- There is a codependent side that wants to just smooth things over and shut down the protester inside -- BUT tuning in to my desires is explicitly part of what I'm working through in our group.
- The activation / trigger feeling has brought up a LOT of past things that I very much want to process and work through -- again, it's part of why I'm in the group -- and those don't have much to do with him. They have to do with my childhood. I would honestly find it nice to talk about it all with him, but isn't that a bit weird?
- I realized recently that part of my childhood might include complex attachment -- having a person who should have nurtured me, and who I wanted to attach to, but who didn't actually provide what I needed. So there was that "get closer, get hurt" vs "stay away, feel disconnected" tension and I am literally just at the baby stage of working that out. I can feel it now. Like my body responded: "Ah you are now unsafe with the person you want to attach to. Activate plan [distancing and maintaining personal security]."
- One of my parents used to tell me they regret talking about their marital issues too much with my other parent, and I always think about that; I worry I may poison the pond. However, it occurred to me that maybe my parents--who are super dysfunctional--aren't the best voices to listen to on this topic. So, maybe it's okay if I talk about this with him? I did push myself to share generally what was going on and why things felt complex.
So... what is going on? How do you read his comment? Can you help me untangle healthy self-protection and over-sensitive boundaries and my own desire for investing in my healing and this small, growing connection with my friend?
Please be gentle and, while I know the answer may be "You are not ready for relationships" or something, please consider that (1) in that case I still want to navigate a friendship with him if only as a member of our group, (2) this is a person and group uniquely able to understand at least the generalities of why I'm freaking out, and therefore a valuable and important thing for me to be part of, and (3) for some of us on the earth, this working-through-anxiety is a normal part of what it means to be in relationships and live day to day.
My friend (M) and I (F) met through an online community that is part social group, part peer support. We're getting to know each other through chat and I think there's a feeling of romantic potential on both sides -- but, living in different places and not having talked about goals or anything, we hold it loosely. I trust his character based what I've seen so far. We did have one group interaction via video and I was looking forward to video chatting 1:1 when it felt right.
Recently he asked for my address to send a gift. I gave it to him without thinking. He offered his in exchange saying it would feel more balanced and less creepy. I said "It's only creepy if you make it creepy, hahaha." He wrote, "No promises."
It threw me for a hard loop. I felt activated and triggered. It made me feel insecure, physically. My mind held two realities -- one that I was actually safe, and one that I was so unsafe.
He apologized right away. We chatted later and he apologized again. I shared how it felt to me and we agreed to check in another time. He has been respectful and honoring of my process. This week he brought it up again and offered to talk if I felt ready, through whatever mode I would choose, but also articulating the value of a video chat so we could at least see each other.
I don't know how to proceed and I can't afford a therapist till January so I wondered if you could reflect what you are hearing, share thoughts, and maybe that will help me sort things out. Which of the below are things to dial up the volume on, and what could be turned down?
---THE TWO OF US
- This group in general, and the conversations with him, got to a point of vulnerability that I hadn't reckoned with. I think part of the shock at his words as realizing how vulnerable I feel in general with the group and him.
- His comment creeped me out and it made me wonder if he is low-key planning something creepy or if it reflects an unconscious creepy nature.
- The comment felt like a violation of intimacy -- so to respond with a video chat for the first time, which builds intimacy, feels odd.
- He's been checking back in every couple days because I mentioned that I find that helpful. In the meantime we did keep chatting casually, but we both were aware that we'd come back to this.
- Usually I prefer not to get too close to people who are far away, too quickly, since it can be confusing. If this hadn't happened I think we might have set up a low-pressure in-person meetup in the next few months.
- So one some level perhaps this feels like it ... forces? ... intimacy at a pace I didn't want. But I do want to have that conversation with him, and hear him say he doesn't have creepy intentions (or whatever it is he'll say) and feel some reconciliation.
- He hasn't done anything that feels boundary-pushing, creepy or strange aside from that comment. I feel that he is doing emotional labor in this and other areas. If I said I wasn't comfortable to keep talking, he'd respect that.
---RELATIONSHIPS GENERALLY
- The way he's holding space for me is gorgeous and feels lifegiving. I just want to soak it up because I feel like it gives the emotional breadth to just... breathe, process, and feel everything I'm feeling and respond accordingly.
- I'm worried I'll take advantage of the space he's holding to the point he feels hurt (he wants to apologize more deeply) or decides to leave me behind.
- On the other side of anxiety, I wonder if I'll get too close to him because I like how this feels so very much, and I'll forget to care about all the other things that matter to compatibility.
- I have some relational / pure OCD and my therapist has treated me for that in the past through exposure. I wonder what the right exposure is here -- to feel the discomfort of not being connected with him while I process this? Or to talk and let him apologize before I feel I've processed everything?
- It feels like this--the friendship, potential dating thing, whatever it is--could be really GOOD in so many ways since I know we are both here to respect each other, support each other's growth and take responsibility to grow in the ways we each want/need to.
---MY PAST
- (My earlier AskMes are fair game.)
- I have a general fear of vulnerability and feeling that someone will force me to do something I don't want to -- emotionally or otherwise -- so I am feeling like, "How could I have given him such access to me that I can now feel so hurt?" And I know this is a protective stance that maybe I want to be dismantling
- There is a codependent side that wants to just smooth things over and shut down the protester inside -- BUT tuning in to my desires is explicitly part of what I'm working through in our group.
- The activation / trigger feeling has brought up a LOT of past things that I very much want to process and work through -- again, it's part of why I'm in the group -- and those don't have much to do with him. They have to do with my childhood. I would honestly find it nice to talk about it all with him, but isn't that a bit weird?
- I realized recently that part of my childhood might include complex attachment -- having a person who should have nurtured me, and who I wanted to attach to, but who didn't actually provide what I needed. So there was that "get closer, get hurt" vs "stay away, feel disconnected" tension and I am literally just at the baby stage of working that out. I can feel it now. Like my body responded: "Ah you are now unsafe with the person you want to attach to. Activate plan [distancing and maintaining personal security]."
- One of my parents used to tell me they regret talking about their marital issues too much with my other parent, and I always think about that; I worry I may poison the pond. However, it occurred to me that maybe my parents--who are super dysfunctional--aren't the best voices to listen to on this topic. So, maybe it's okay if I talk about this with him? I did push myself to share generally what was going on and why things felt complex.
So... what is going on? How do you read his comment? Can you help me untangle healthy self-protection and over-sensitive boundaries and my own desire for investing in my healing and this small, growing connection with my friend?
Please be gentle and, while I know the answer may be "You are not ready for relationships" or something, please consider that (1) in that case I still want to navigate a friendship with him if only as a member of our group, (2) this is a person and group uniquely able to understand at least the generalities of why I'm freaking out, and therefore a valuable and important thing for me to be part of, and (3) for some of us on the earth, this working-through-anxiety is a normal part of what it means to be in relationships and live day to day.
Response by poster: Thank you bleep. Your comment is helpful and exactly the kind of benchmark I'm hoping for. Unfortunately, my new health insurance doesn't kick in till January and I can't afford the $70 cost for therapy right now. However, if there's strong consensus that I need to go that route, I'll try to make the money work. Thanks again.
posted by ramenopres at 9:23 AM on December 18, 2018
posted by ramenopres at 9:23 AM on December 18, 2018
However, if there's strong consensus that I need to go that route...
Add me to the "yes, there is strong consensus" group.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:26 AM on December 18, 2018 [26 favorites]
Add me to the "yes, there is strong consensus" group.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:26 AM on December 18, 2018 [26 favorites]
Sounds like an innocuous joke to me, he thought he was being frivolous and funny. To me, it would have been nothing more than a throwaway comment, not something to worry about.
However, it did upset you, which is your prerogative, and his actions afterwards speak volumes about his character. He apologized immediately when he discovered it upset you, not once, but a couple of times which is obviously a good sign. Had he become defensive and edgy and not open to criticism then for sure, I think your assumptions might have a better basis... but he seems to have acted appropriately in the way you describe him.
Honestly, I do think you need to go to therapy because you're reading SO much into something that I consider so minor.
posted by JenThePro at 9:39 AM on December 18, 2018 [38 favorites]
However, it did upset you, which is your prerogative, and his actions afterwards speak volumes about his character. He apologized immediately when he discovered it upset you, not once, but a couple of times which is obviously a good sign. Had he become defensive and edgy and not open to criticism then for sure, I think your assumptions might have a better basis... but he seems to have acted appropriately in the way you describe him.
Honestly, I do think you need to go to therapy because you're reading SO much into something that I consider so minor.
posted by JenThePro at 9:39 AM on December 18, 2018 [38 favorites]
Immediately before he made a throw-away joke (which was a response to something you said which I would have taken as a very, very similar joke) he actually did a thing -- offer you his address -- that was specifically meant to acknowledge that you might not feel safe and to make you feel safer.
Your reactions are, I think you recognize, out-sized to the level of what happened in this exchange and have very little to do with this person or what they said. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't talk to him about what the reaction was and how you felt and how you can handle those reactions in the future. You can even ask him to try to avoid the kinds of things that trigger you -- not because what he did was wrong, but because you are sensitive in this area and as a person who cares about you, he should want to help you feel comfortable.
At the same time, yes, you should be pursuing therapy (not that you need to arrange it before your benefits in January -- I'd honestly be surprised if you were able to, given the holiday season) to see how you can maybe learn to cope with what are really very mild situations in a way that is easier for you and doesn't leave you feel panicked and unsafe.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:44 AM on December 18, 2018 [15 favorites]
Your reactions are, I think you recognize, out-sized to the level of what happened in this exchange and have very little to do with this person or what they said. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't talk to him about what the reaction was and how you felt and how you can handle those reactions in the future. You can even ask him to try to avoid the kinds of things that trigger you -- not because what he did was wrong, but because you are sensitive in this area and as a person who cares about you, he should want to help you feel comfortable.
At the same time, yes, you should be pursuing therapy (not that you need to arrange it before your benefits in January -- I'd honestly be surprised if you were able to, given the holiday season) to see how you can maybe learn to cope with what are really very mild situations in a way that is easier for you and doesn't leave you feel panicked and unsafe.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:44 AM on December 18, 2018 [15 favorites]
- His comment creeped me out and it made me wonder if he is low-key planning something creepy or if it reflects an unconscious creepy nature.
Okay, so, if you didn't express things that suggested you think this interaction heading in a romantic direction was a positive thing, this might be more of a concern, but while I think this was a joke, I think the real problem here is the cultural conflation of creepy and romantic. I don't think he's low-key planning on being an actual creep, but especially if you guys haven't actually expressed openly that there's a romantic interest here, I think he was trying to hint at that in a way that just happened to be unfortunate.
The ideal course here would probably be to talk more frankly about how you feel about him and what you'd like from him--especially the kind of things you would find actually romantic and what things you might not, like getting surprise gifts now that he has your address. (From a practical standpoint, I think this is most likely where the comment came from, that now that he has it he might express affection by sending you things without warning.) But if you're not ready for the frank talk yet? It's not that your anxious feelings are invalid, but I don't think this expresses that he's dangerous in particular, just that modern masculinity has problematic elements.
posted by Sequence at 10:09 AM on December 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
Okay, so, if you didn't express things that suggested you think this interaction heading in a romantic direction was a positive thing, this might be more of a concern, but while I think this was a joke, I think the real problem here is the cultural conflation of creepy and romantic. I don't think he's low-key planning on being an actual creep, but especially if you guys haven't actually expressed openly that there's a romantic interest here, I think he was trying to hint at that in a way that just happened to be unfortunate.
The ideal course here would probably be to talk more frankly about how you feel about him and what you'd like from him--especially the kind of things you would find actually romantic and what things you might not, like getting surprise gifts now that he has your address. (From a practical standpoint, I think this is most likely where the comment came from, that now that he has it he might express affection by sending you things without warning.) But if you're not ready for the frank talk yet? It's not that your anxious feelings are invalid, but I don't think this expresses that he's dangerous in particular, just that modern masculinity has problematic elements.
posted by Sequence at 10:09 AM on December 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
It seems like what happened was he asked to step up the intimacy re: the gift, you accepted, he tried to reciprocate, you made a joke, he made a joke in return (maybe without the requisite emoji to underscore the joke), you got upset because of the ambiguity of the joke (which by definition/content is what makes humor humorous, the tension, the ambiguity, the double-meanings), he has since shown he understands and wants to be respectful and not creepy (and I get the confusion over the video chat because I hate video chat but for many people it is a nicer way of connecting and not meant to be invasive), and here you are.
Can you ask to forget about the gifts/lose your address for now and put the video call on hold too? And then continue as you were/take a breather from the group? I think escalating the intimacy right now is not going to be helpful for you. Tell him you need to do some self reflection/see your therapist before you do video chat or exchange gifts, wish him happy holidays, then take a break. Even if this guy would be a good romantic possibility for you it seems strange to mix it with the support group right off the bat (not sure how long you've known him but I'm assuming not long).
posted by lafemma at 10:11 AM on December 18, 2018 [4 favorites]
Can you ask to forget about the gifts/lose your address for now and put the video call on hold too? And then continue as you were/take a breather from the group? I think escalating the intimacy right now is not going to be helpful for you. Tell him you need to do some self reflection/see your therapist before you do video chat or exchange gifts, wish him happy holidays, then take a break. Even if this guy would be a good romantic possibility for you it seems strange to mix it with the support group right off the bat (not sure how long you've known him but I'm assuming not long).
posted by lafemma at 10:11 AM on December 18, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think you're in a crappy convergence here with regard to timing around the blossoming of this friendship and your readiness for it.
A fairly functional timeline for this series of events would be more like this:
- Dude makes a joke that was not thoughtfully crafted but also not unforgivable, and then appears to realize he stepped in it and is sorry and makes sorry noises that suggest he understands what he's sorry for.
- You maybe slow your roll a little for a bit to watch for additional red flags, but also recognize that your sensitivity around this is not something he can fix with any number of apologies. All he can do is do better going forward.
- Your processing of your reaction to it, which may indeed be hooked to a number of extremely real factors, has nothing to do with him or the relationship. He doesn't need to participate. And forcing him to process and reprocess and reprocess a two-word fuckup in lieu of more typical friendship-building interaction will not fix anything. That's just way too much responsibility to put on him.
I do think that having an honest grownup conversation with him here about everyone's intentions and availability would probably calm your anxiety bubble. It doesn't need to be a conversation longer than maybe 5 minutes, it doesn't need to be analyzed to death, just say your basic truth which is that you feel this friendship might have some potential either to be deep enough that it feels higher-stakes or possibly romantic, which is also high-stakes to you, but that it's not healthy for you to hold all that potentiality in your head without grounding it so how do you, dude, feel about this situation currently?
People spend so much energy trying to not get this answer because it might not be the one they want, but the answer already exists whether you ask or not. This is a bad place for magical thinking, because he's a human being with flaws and wants/needs/plans of his own, and this isn't just about what you want. It will simplify things to know. And if you are worried that you will get too caught up in it, one of the best ways to prevent that is to have the concern out on the table in the open so it can't be ignored or disregarded.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:30 AM on December 18, 2018 [10 favorites]
A fairly functional timeline for this series of events would be more like this:
- Dude makes a joke that was not thoughtfully crafted but also not unforgivable, and then appears to realize he stepped in it and is sorry and makes sorry noises that suggest he understands what he's sorry for.
- You maybe slow your roll a little for a bit to watch for additional red flags, but also recognize that your sensitivity around this is not something he can fix with any number of apologies. All he can do is do better going forward.
- Your processing of your reaction to it, which may indeed be hooked to a number of extremely real factors, has nothing to do with him or the relationship. He doesn't need to participate. And forcing him to process and reprocess and reprocess a two-word fuckup in lieu of more typical friendship-building interaction will not fix anything. That's just way too much responsibility to put on him.
I do think that having an honest grownup conversation with him here about everyone's intentions and availability would probably calm your anxiety bubble. It doesn't need to be a conversation longer than maybe 5 minutes, it doesn't need to be analyzed to death, just say your basic truth which is that you feel this friendship might have some potential either to be deep enough that it feels higher-stakes or possibly romantic, which is also high-stakes to you, but that it's not healthy for you to hold all that potentiality in your head without grounding it so how do you, dude, feel about this situation currently?
People spend so much energy trying to not get this answer because it might not be the one they want, but the answer already exists whether you ask or not. This is a bad place for magical thinking, because he's a human being with flaws and wants/needs/plans of his own, and this isn't just about what you want. It will simplify things to know. And if you are worried that you will get too caught up in it, one of the best ways to prevent that is to have the concern out on the table in the open so it can't be ignored or disregarded.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:30 AM on December 18, 2018 [10 favorites]
And a good point was made above about mixing support with romance: there's a reason you're not supposed to do that. Support triggers transference, and support communities are vulnerable to predators. So as an overall plan of slowing your roll a bit before you get too caught up in your headcanon of what's going on here, consider setting some personal boundaries that are unrelated to how much connection you feel but are more about a respect for processes and best practices and other people's experience of this community, which can suffer from overfraternization between a subset of members.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:34 AM on December 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 10:34 AM on December 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
A thought regarding therapy (which sounds like a good idea): you can sometimes negotiate fees with a therapist. If you find someone you like who you'll be able to pay through insurance starting in a couple of weeks, maybe they can work out a better deal for you in the short run.
posted by the_blizz at 10:38 AM on December 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by the_blizz at 10:38 AM on December 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
This seems like an incredibly disproportionate response to what was almost certainly a throwaway comment. You ask "How do you read this comment?" and the answer is "not at all seriously." I bet he winced after he sent the comment, given that he's already apologized multiple times, apparently aware that he inadvertently stepped on a landmine, or just feeling awkward and weird about it himself. This is the kind of thing that happens in texts/chats! People let their fingers get ahead of them, and sometimes awkward comments land with a thud, especially in the absence of body language and tone. You cannot subject every single chat interaction to this level of analysis, not if you want to stay sane.
Please take this all to therapy before you take it to him. If you want to be friends or possibly romantic partners, you need to avoid treating each other like you're in a therapist-client relationship, or like you're still fellow support group members, and if you drop even half of what you wrote in this comment on him, you're coming awfully close to turning a friendly conversation into a therapy session. A relationship is a different thing from a group therapy or support group meeting of two. I think you need to clarify that for yourself, and for each other.
posted by yasaman at 10:45 AM on December 18, 2018 [11 favorites]
Please take this all to therapy before you take it to him. If you want to be friends or possibly romantic partners, you need to avoid treating each other like you're in a therapist-client relationship, or like you're still fellow support group members, and if you drop even half of what you wrote in this comment on him, you're coming awfully close to turning a friendly conversation into a therapy session. A relationship is a different thing from a group therapy or support group meeting of two. I think you need to clarify that for yourself, and for each other.
posted by yasaman at 10:45 AM on December 18, 2018 [11 favorites]
I think that you need to remind yourself that this guy is an imperfect human being with thoughts and feelings of his own. Asking him to engage in this level of 'processing' for an innocuous comment, when he has already apologized sincerely more than once, is basically asking him to do the work of managing your emotions. You need to learn to do this work yourself. That is why you need to see a therapist.
If you must have one final very short conversation about it, do it. However, I think you need to move on from this a lot more quickly than you are - it is part of healthy functioning to be able to recognise the scale of an event and react to it accordingly. Personally if I were him I would see your behaviour as a red flag and would distance myself from you.
posted by thereader at 10:58 AM on December 18, 2018 [27 favorites]
If you must have one final very short conversation about it, do it. However, I think you need to move on from this a lot more quickly than you are - it is part of healthy functioning to be able to recognise the scale of an event and react to it accordingly. Personally if I were him I would see your behaviour as a red flag and would distance myself from you.
posted by thereader at 10:58 AM on December 18, 2018 [27 favorites]
i didn't read your whole question, but the "no promises" comment was almost certainly meant to be flirty, and he didn't realize it could come off threatening or intimidating. if he otherwise seems cool, i wouldn't let it bother you, except to tell him comments like that can be intimidating.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:12 PM on December 18, 2018
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:12 PM on December 18, 2018
I said "It's only creepy if you make it creepy, hahaha." He wrote, "No promises."
I'm torn here. I think it's important to respect our gut feelings. But what I see is someone following your lead and making a joke after you made a joke. Were you concerned at all about him when you gave him your address? It sounds like you weren't. He offered up his address (maybe in hopes you might send him something?).
If you actually were concerned it would be creepy, then the "hahaha" is a bit misleading. I think it was intended as light, casual banter, following your lead.
I don't want to say you are being oversensitive, because I've heard that before and it doesn't feel good. But I think you set a tone with "hahaha" and he followed along, lightly.
I also think this is a reminder that texting and messaging can be confusing. Maybe it would be better to interact via phone with new friends? It's less intimate that a video chat but gives us tone and other things that might help facilitate clearer communication.
I think it might be helpful for you to understand how you set up the joke, really. You're saying he triggered you... but his response followed your lead, I think.
And yes, I think it would be good to speak with a professional person as soon as possible. If you're not sure what to do about him in the meantime, perhaps tell him you'd like to take a break from contact? It's really easy to get very caught up in people we don't know. The only way you're going to get to know this guy is... if you get to know him. I'm not saying you should -- it may be that this interaction is too stressful for you to continue -- but I'm not seeing any indications that he's a bad guy, based on what you've shared. Good luck. Please take care of yourself.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:13 PM on December 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm torn here. I think it's important to respect our gut feelings. But what I see is someone following your lead and making a joke after you made a joke. Were you concerned at all about him when you gave him your address? It sounds like you weren't. He offered up his address (maybe in hopes you might send him something?).
If you actually were concerned it would be creepy, then the "hahaha" is a bit misleading. I think it was intended as light, casual banter, following your lead.
I don't want to say you are being oversensitive, because I've heard that before and it doesn't feel good. But I think you set a tone with "hahaha" and he followed along, lightly.
I also think this is a reminder that texting and messaging can be confusing. Maybe it would be better to interact via phone with new friends? It's less intimate that a video chat but gives us tone and other things that might help facilitate clearer communication.
I think it might be helpful for you to understand how you set up the joke, really. You're saying he triggered you... but his response followed your lead, I think.
And yes, I think it would be good to speak with a professional person as soon as possible. If you're not sure what to do about him in the meantime, perhaps tell him you'd like to take a break from contact? It's really easy to get very caught up in people we don't know. The only way you're going to get to know this guy is... if you get to know him. I'm not saying you should -- it may be that this interaction is too stressful for you to continue -- but I'm not seeing any indications that he's a bad guy, based on what you've shared. Good luck. Please take care of yourself.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:13 PM on December 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
For the holiday period, I think I would just say, "Look, I'm sorry, what you said hit a really sensitive spot for me, one I didn't even realize was there. It wasn't particularly bad in itself and it's not something we need to keep going over--it just hit me in a strange way. I'd like to keep talking to you, but maybe after the holidays, when my brain has had a little time to get over it." And then, yes, therapy.
posted by praemunire at 12:27 PM on December 18, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 12:27 PM on December 18, 2018 [11 favorites]
I have Pure-O as well. It’s so hard because people say to “trust your gut” on so many things, but my fight-or-flight response is overly sensitive. My brain literally makes up stories constantly and I have to decipher what’s real and what’s fiction. I am also guilty of overthinking almost everything. This stuff is REALLY HARD, so yes, add me to the list of “get therapy as soon as you are able.”
It sounds to me like intimacy makes you anxious. But on the other hand, intimacy (and not just sexual, but emotional) is also an important goal to you. So you will want to allow bits of intimacy in your life, in safe ways, while at the same time accepting it makes you anxious.
I normally wouldn’t suggest developing friendships with folks in your support groups. Is this a formal group? honestly it raises a huge red flag to me that your group leader wouldn’t set some group boundaries. If it’s a very informal group though then it’s a different situation. And anyway, the cat’s out of the bag now. And luckily, he sounds like a great guy—just know that in these situations, things can really go south, so maybe avoid that in the future.
I do think this guy sounds like a good choice as a friend and could be a good candidate with whom to practice closeness. I think your sense of taking things slow is right on.
I would suggest keeping a log for a few days of your anxiety levels. when your friend made the comment, maybe it shot up to 10/10. But thinking back on it now, how do you feel now? Maybe more like 7/10? 5/10? The situation has not changed but your thoughts and feelings may have.
If your anxiety shoots to 8/10, 9/10, or 10/10, try to refrain from making any decisions. Excuse yourself, get to a safe space, and practice self-care. A quick bit of intense exercise, meditation, a hot bath, a cup of tea, or whatever to get your cortisone levels down.
But if your anxiety is somewhat lower, it’s a good idea to remind yourself, “Oh, I’m having anxiety again. I have OCD, and it makes me scared of intimacy. I can continue to be intimate even though I am anxious.... I am still anxious, but it is not killing me, so I will continue my interaction/conversation/etc...”
If you think back, you have done this before (if you’re anything like me you probably do it all the time). You can do what YOU want to do even if you get uncomfortable feelings, and the best part is, those bad feelings tend to decrease over time the more you practice. You have faced this same type of hurdle in the past and you CAN do it again!
The truth is nobody can make you do, or feel, anything. You are in complete control of your actions. You do not have to let your emotions or thoughts dictate your actions. Hang in there!
posted by shalom at 2:04 PM on December 18, 2018 [4 favorites]
It sounds to me like intimacy makes you anxious. But on the other hand, intimacy (and not just sexual, but emotional) is also an important goal to you. So you will want to allow bits of intimacy in your life, in safe ways, while at the same time accepting it makes you anxious.
I normally wouldn’t suggest developing friendships with folks in your support groups. Is this a formal group? honestly it raises a huge red flag to me that your group leader wouldn’t set some group boundaries. If it’s a very informal group though then it’s a different situation. And anyway, the cat’s out of the bag now. And luckily, he sounds like a great guy—just know that in these situations, things can really go south, so maybe avoid that in the future.
I do think this guy sounds like a good choice as a friend and could be a good candidate with whom to practice closeness. I think your sense of taking things slow is right on.
I would suggest keeping a log for a few days of your anxiety levels. when your friend made the comment, maybe it shot up to 10/10. But thinking back on it now, how do you feel now? Maybe more like 7/10? 5/10? The situation has not changed but your thoughts and feelings may have.
If your anxiety shoots to 8/10, 9/10, or 10/10, try to refrain from making any decisions. Excuse yourself, get to a safe space, and practice self-care. A quick bit of intense exercise, meditation, a hot bath, a cup of tea, or whatever to get your cortisone levels down.
But if your anxiety is somewhat lower, it’s a good idea to remind yourself, “Oh, I’m having anxiety again. I have OCD, and it makes me scared of intimacy. I can continue to be intimate even though I am anxious.... I am still anxious, but it is not killing me, so I will continue my interaction/conversation/etc...”
If you think back, you have done this before (if you’re anything like me you probably do it all the time). You can do what YOU want to do even if you get uncomfortable feelings, and the best part is, those bad feelings tend to decrease over time the more you practice. You have faced this same type of hurdle in the past and you CAN do it again!
The truth is nobody can make you do, or feel, anything. You are in complete control of your actions. You do not have to let your emotions or thoughts dictate your actions. Hang in there!
posted by shalom at 2:04 PM on December 18, 2018 [4 favorites]
I said "It's only creepy if you make it creepy, hahaha." He wrote, "No promises."
This sounds light and fun and flirty.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:39 PM on December 18, 2018 [6 favorites]
This sounds light and fun and flirty.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:39 PM on December 18, 2018 [6 favorites]
Here’s how I’m imagining the exchange went:
Him: What’s your address so I can send you a gift?
You (without thinking): [address]
Him: Here’s my address to balance things out and feel less creepy: [address]
You: It’s only creepy if you make it creepy, hahaha.
Him: No promises.
I’m on the fence about this one. Unlike most people here who view his last text as a misstep or something innocuous/flirty, I would see it as a little bit of a red flag. By you saying “it’s only creepy if you make it creepy” you’re trying to say, whoa, I just gave a stranger my address and now he could end up stalking me, so please don’t do that. There’s always that kind of risk for women more so than men. By you adding the “hahaha” you’re trying to make light of your own concerns and not insult him by thinking he’s a creep, right? Instead of getting reassured that he won’t be creepy, he says “no promises” which just confirms for me (don’t know about you), oh great, he’s a Schrodinger’s creep and now I have to be on guard. I see you trying to confirm that he’s not going to be creepy about this, and he kind of failed that.
However, he DID apologize. I think both of you have to be honest with yourselves and each other here. If I was in your shoes I might say something like, “I may have jumped the gun about giving you my address; not sure why I did that. I think I was caught up in the moment and I’ve really enjoyed our talks and getting to know you. I guess I was just trying to make sure you’re not going to stalk me or send me your used underwear or something.” And what I’d want to hear from him is being honest about where he was coming from by saying “no promises” and what his intent was with wanting to send you a gift. If I feel that he’s being honest and can understand the impact of his words, then you could get past this. Men being creepy with women is not something to joke about, right?
To close, yes to therapy and praemunire’s approach is perfect.
posted by foxjacket at 7:04 AM on December 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Him: What’s your address so I can send you a gift?
You (without thinking): [address]
Him: Here’s my address to balance things out and feel less creepy: [address]
You: It’s only creepy if you make it creepy, hahaha.
Him: No promises.
I’m on the fence about this one. Unlike most people here who view his last text as a misstep or something innocuous/flirty, I would see it as a little bit of a red flag. By you saying “it’s only creepy if you make it creepy” you’re trying to say, whoa, I just gave a stranger my address and now he could end up stalking me, so please don’t do that. There’s always that kind of risk for women more so than men. By you adding the “hahaha” you’re trying to make light of your own concerns and not insult him by thinking he’s a creep, right? Instead of getting reassured that he won’t be creepy, he says “no promises” which just confirms for me (don’t know about you), oh great, he’s a Schrodinger’s creep and now I have to be on guard. I see you trying to confirm that he’s not going to be creepy about this, and he kind of failed that.
However, he DID apologize. I think both of you have to be honest with yourselves and each other here. If I was in your shoes I might say something like, “I may have jumped the gun about giving you my address; not sure why I did that. I think I was caught up in the moment and I’ve really enjoyed our talks and getting to know you. I guess I was just trying to make sure you’re not going to stalk me or send me your used underwear or something.” And what I’d want to hear from him is being honest about where he was coming from by saying “no promises” and what his intent was with wanting to send you a gift. If I feel that he’s being honest and can understand the impact of his words, then you could get past this. Men being creepy with women is not something to joke about, right?
To close, yes to therapy and praemunire’s approach is perfect.
posted by foxjacket at 7:04 AM on December 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
This isn't about the comment or him. This is about whatever hurt you have over whatever has happened in your life that got rudely, unexpectedly awaken for you. All of his behavior indicates that he is a good person. Heck, I thought his comment was funny.
The only way to proceed here is to get in therapy, like, yesterday. It's up to you to decide if you should keep talking to him. But it really sounds like a minor indiscretion that he is now bending over backwards to make right. I would forget the comment and put all this energy you're using to analyze the comment and him toward uncovering what's really bothering you.
posted by Amy93 at 7:41 AM on December 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
The only way to proceed here is to get in therapy, like, yesterday. It's up to you to decide if you should keep talking to him. But it really sounds like a minor indiscretion that he is now bending over backwards to make right. I would forget the comment and put all this energy you're using to analyze the comment and him toward uncovering what's really bothering you.
posted by Amy93 at 7:41 AM on December 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Another thought: In his second text he’s trying to show understanding about creepiness; and maybe he didn’t like your response? Like you were kind of putting him on the defensive? So he returned with “no promises” despite trying to show that he’s not creepy initially. Anyway, we can parse these texts forever; I think it’s best for you to take a step back for your own sake.
posted by foxjacket at 7:52 AM on December 19, 2018
posted by foxjacket at 7:52 AM on December 19, 2018
Just to add in a supportive note: you are already several steps ahead of many people by being so attuned to yourself as to identify and let yourself feel the unsafety that you felt. That feeling is very real, and requires your attention and love. As others have pointed out, the feeling is disproportionate to the event and you should not hold this man responsible for it any longer. In fact, you might consider letting him know that through this situation, you've come to recognize how important it is for you to work on your own feelings of safety and trust, and to also express in no uncertain terms that it is not his fault that you have these feelings to work through. These are much earlier feelings.
I strongly suggest the book In Touch for learning how to listen to your body (which you already do!) effectively and productively (which, not quite yet...)
posted by namesarehard at 3:00 PM on December 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
I strongly suggest the book In Touch for learning how to listen to your body (which you already do!) effectively and productively (which, not quite yet...)
posted by namesarehard at 3:00 PM on December 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for the gracious responses. shalom addressed my mind's workings so compassionately and precisely. I felt the "spike" of Pure O shift as I read those words, or at least felt more equipped to see and experience the anxiety. Everyone else helped provide the calibration for a new story -- both with the interaction and the importance of exploring my response. And, foxjacket, your description is exactly as I experienced it.
I did go with praemunire's script and am seeking out whatever support I can get till January. The script was very good. My friend and I are still friending. And this experience has become such a gift as it invites me to explore the "terrible terrible shit" Rock Em Sock Em mentioned.
posted by ramenopres at 3:30 PM on December 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
I did go with praemunire's script and am seeking out whatever support I can get till January. The script was very good. My friend and I are still friending. And this experience has become such a gift as it invites me to explore the "terrible terrible shit" Rock Em Sock Em mentioned.
posted by ramenopres at 3:30 PM on December 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Got the prompt to mark this question resolved. Here's the longer-term outcome -- I met with my therapist after a month, when the acute feelings of danger had faded. She didn't identify anything huge from my past, but we did EMDR and I'm feeling more calm. Not sure what to do with the fact I had such a strong response.
Where the guy is concerned, now that I feel safe with him and in ownership of my responses, random things like this one don't put me out as much. I am not sure that he's got a totally great POV on gender and relationships, though, so we may work out as friends and not more than that.
posted by ramenopres at 1:40 PM on January 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Where the guy is concerned, now that I feel safe with him and in ownership of my responses, random things like this one don't put me out as much. I am not sure that he's got a totally great POV on gender and relationships, though, so we may work out as friends and not more than that.
posted by ramenopres at 1:40 PM on January 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by bleep at 9:20 AM on December 18, 2018 [81 favorites]