Cabinet makers: Please help me solve my dishwasher plumbing issue
October 31, 2018 1:30 PM Subscribe
I am trying to figure out how to run a dishwasher drain hose through existing cabinets. Difficulty: it's not a straight run.
The dishwasher is located three drawer cabinets away from the sink. Normally one would run the hose at the back of the cabinets, however one of the cabinets/set of drawers opens in the opposing direction to the other cabinets.
According to my GC, there is not enough clearance to snake the hose around the drawers inside the cabinet space.
What I want to do is get into the subcabinet area, drill holes in the cabinet walls, and run the drain hose under the cabinets. This would involve a 90 degree turn, and there would be plenty of room for it to be a curved angle, as opposed to a sharp angle.
The cabinets have a "floor" between the bottom of the drawer and the sub-area. There's about a 4" clearance between the bottom of the drawers and the actual floor of the kitchen.
My question is, can I remove the floor of the cabinet, or at least a portion thereof, in order to get into that space to drill the holes into the cabinet walls. Second question is, what tool (are there handheld saws or Dremel-like tools for tight areas?) can a diy-er use to do this? Links, youtube videos would be helpful.
The current set up is that the drain hose runs down through the floor, under the house (we're on a raised foundation), and back up through the floor under the sink.
The new dishwasher was installed recently but then I realized that the drain hose is cracked and leaking under the house. Installers came back out, said that the installation shouldn't have been done that way, and they refuse to replace the cracked hose until the run goes through the cabinets. They told me to call a plumber.
Plumber says a cabinet installer needs to do the work.
My contractor who built the house (and who was a cabinet installer for years before becoming a GC) looked at it but kept trying to say that the hose connection is the problem and that the installers need to come out and check the connections again. Basically I think he just doesn't want to do the work because admittedly it's a tight space and the project would be a p.i.t.a.
I'm not afraid to diy stuff but I'd like to have an idea of what I'm doing before I jump in with both feet and eff up my cabinets while simultaneously not solving the problem. If it's really beyond a diy project I'll grudgingly pay the GC's fee, just to not be pouring water into my foundation area every single day.
The dishwasher is located three drawer cabinets away from the sink. Normally one would run the hose at the back of the cabinets, however one of the cabinets/set of drawers opens in the opposing direction to the other cabinets.
According to my GC, there is not enough clearance to snake the hose around the drawers inside the cabinet space.
What I want to do is get into the subcabinet area, drill holes in the cabinet walls, and run the drain hose under the cabinets. This would involve a 90 degree turn, and there would be plenty of room for it to be a curved angle, as opposed to a sharp angle.
The cabinets have a "floor" between the bottom of the drawer and the sub-area. There's about a 4" clearance between the bottom of the drawers and the actual floor of the kitchen.
My question is, can I remove the floor of the cabinet, or at least a portion thereof, in order to get into that space to drill the holes into the cabinet walls. Second question is, what tool (are there handheld saws or Dremel-like tools for tight areas?) can a diy-er use to do this? Links, youtube videos would be helpful.
The current set up is that the drain hose runs down through the floor, under the house (we're on a raised foundation), and back up through the floor under the sink.
The new dishwasher was installed recently but then I realized that the drain hose is cracked and leaking under the house. Installers came back out, said that the installation shouldn't have been done that way, and they refuse to replace the cracked hose until the run goes through the cabinets. They told me to call a plumber.
Plumber says a cabinet installer needs to do the work.
My contractor who built the house (and who was a cabinet installer for years before becoming a GC) looked at it but kept trying to say that the hose connection is the problem and that the installers need to come out and check the connections again. Basically I think he just doesn't want to do the work because admittedly it's a tight space and the project would be a p.i.t.a.
I'm not afraid to diy stuff but I'd like to have an idea of what I'm doing before I jump in with both feet and eff up my cabinets while simultaneously not solving the problem. If it's really beyond a diy project I'll grudgingly pay the GC's fee, just to not be pouring water into my foundation area every single day.
Response by poster: Not if; how. And if I do, would it structurally compromise the cabinets.
posted by vignettist at 1:36 PM on October 31, 2018
posted by vignettist at 1:36 PM on October 31, 2018
Response by poster: Also, to clarify, it's not the toe kick that I want to remove; it's the board that forms the bottom of the cabinet; the horizontal floor under the drawer.
posted by vignettist at 1:40 PM on October 31, 2018
posted by vignettist at 1:40 PM on October 31, 2018
It’s just a kitchen cabinet right? Probably made out of particle board? No, a 2” hole (or so) won’t compromise the cabinets.
You can get a hole saw bit at any hardware store, for use for a standard drill. Such as this. Making a hole larger than the diameter of the hose will make your life much easier and help prevent kinks and shar turns in the hose.
posted by suedehead at 1:57 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
You can get a hole saw bit at any hardware store, for use for a standard drill. Such as this. Making a hole larger than the diameter of the hose will make your life much easier and help prevent kinks and shar turns in the hose.
posted by suedehead at 1:57 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Normally you'd leave the bottoms of the cabinets alone, and just remove the kickboard which fills the vertical space between the cabinet bottom and the floor. These are usually just attached with plastic or metal clips to the legs of the cabinets. You prise one end out, and then gently pull until each clip comes away in turn.
Once you have access to that 4" space under the cabinets, you can decide whether there's enough space at the back to run a pipe, or whether you'll need to drill out some holes for the hose run.
posted by pipeski at 2:12 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Once you have access to that 4" space under the cabinets, you can decide whether there's enough space at the back to run a pipe, or whether you'll need to drill out some holes for the hose run.
posted by pipeski at 2:12 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think it's unlikely that you'll be able to take out the floor of the base cabinet without disassembling the whole bank of cabinets-- that's your goal, right? This is how high-quality base cabinets go together-- dadoes in the side walls, likely secured with glue plus biscuits, pins, or screws. You may just have biscuits or pins without the dadoes, but either way, being able to get it out in situ is likely to be very difficult.
If you can get the toe kick off and get an arm and drill with hole saw in that way, that's probably a better bet. A 2-inch hole wouldn't compromise the strength of the box much at all.
posted by supercres at 2:15 PM on October 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
If you can get the toe kick off and get an arm and drill with hole saw in that way, that's probably a better bet. A 2-inch hole wouldn't compromise the strength of the box much at all.
posted by supercres at 2:15 PM on October 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
Various angle drills and attachments are available. Make sure you can get the drill (and your arm) into the space.
Alternatively, I suppose you could remove the drawers, cut a big hole into the cabinet bottom, then drill your holes.
posted by H21 at 2:26 PM on October 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Alternatively, I suppose you could remove the drawers, cut a big hole into the cabinet bottom, then drill your holes.
posted by H21 at 2:26 PM on October 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wiring and stuff runs behind the drawers (there is a 2-3" space at the back of a cabinet (inside, not behind it) for this. If it were me, I'd run it there, unless there is electricity in the way. That way its accessible. I would not drill through the true bottoms of cabinets (below the bottom shelf) and run it along the floor, where it would then have to turn up to go into the sink line for drainage. That youtube video posted by DarlingBri is exactly what I would do, and you buy a hole saw or an auger bit to do it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:49 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:49 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Ugh, what a mess.
I’d be tempted to run a pipe under the house where the cracked hose currently runs and connect the dishwasher hose to that. It’d be easier than drilling holes in all those cabinets, since those holes already exist, and the pipe would give you a bit more piece of mind than hose, in terms of hidden leak potential.
Here’s an idea for cabinet makers who build cabinets that don’t sit on legs: predrill some holes in the boxes to run cabling/plumbing sometime down the line!
posted by notyou at 2:51 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
I’d be tempted to run a pipe under the house where the cracked hose currently runs and connect the dishwasher hose to that. It’d be easier than drilling holes in all those cabinets, since those holes already exist, and the pipe would give you a bit more piece of mind than hose, in terms of hidden leak potential.
Here’s an idea for cabinet makers who build cabinets that don’t sit on legs: predrill some holes in the boxes to run cabling/plumbing sometime down the line!
posted by notyou at 2:51 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you have tons of drawer space, sacrifice three drawers in a horizontal row. Leave false fronts on, and run the drain through the gap. If you're pressed for storage, I got nuttin'.
posted by kate4914 at 4:47 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by kate4914 at 4:47 PM on October 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
... or get new, shallower drawer boxes made.
posted by kate4914 at 6:50 PM on October 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by kate4914 at 6:50 PM on October 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't run the hose down to the floor and then back up to the drain line at the sink because nasty water will be trapped in the length of hose at floor level.
Most D/Ws have a 3/4 or 1" drain line. I'd run a length of copper pipe the same size as the drain hose directly under (IE attached to ) the counter top above the top row of drawers. Then make the connection to the D/W and the sink with a flexible drain hose. You can use something like shark bites to make connections if you need to go around corners and don't feel comfortable soldering. Or if you can find it you could use a piece of annealled (soft drawn) copper and just curve it around any corners.
The_Vegetables: "Wiring and stuff runs behind the drawers (there is a 2-3" space at the back of a cabinet (inside, not behind it) for this."
The OP has drawers going from both sides so doesn't have a continous chase at the back.
posted by Mitheral at 7:57 PM on October 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Most D/Ws have a 3/4 or 1" drain line. I'd run a length of copper pipe the same size as the drain hose directly under (IE attached to ) the counter top above the top row of drawers. Then make the connection to the D/W and the sink with a flexible drain hose. You can use something like shark bites to make connections if you need to go around corners and don't feel comfortable soldering. Or if you can find it you could use a piece of annealled (soft drawn) copper and just curve it around any corners.
The_Vegetables: "Wiring and stuff runs behind the drawers (there is a 2-3" space at the back of a cabinet (inside, not behind it) for this."
The OP has drawers going from both sides so doesn't have a continous chase at the back.
posted by Mitheral at 7:57 PM on October 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah this is a tricky problem. You could try another plumber. It's possible that you might have to sacrifice some of the drawers.
posted by ovvl at 12:36 PM on November 1, 2018
posted by ovvl at 12:36 PM on November 1, 2018
Response by poster: Thank you everyone, all of these answers have been incredibly helpful. After considering all of these options, I think the path of least resistance (particularly considering the physical access) is going to be going with notyou's suggestion of having some permanent plumbing added in the crawlspace. I really do appreciate the help.
posted by vignettist at 10:14 AM on November 4, 2018
posted by vignettist at 10:14 AM on November 4, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:34 PM on October 31, 2018