No matter what you do, some things always end up the same
October 30, 2018 8:23 AM Subscribe
I'm looking for phrases or pithy illustrative examples about how no matter what you try to do to some system, it'll always end up some way. I want to use it as a metaphor for systems that, regardless of their starting conditions, end up reliably at some equilibria/attractors.
Phrases from languages and cultures other than English-speaking Americans would be great, although anything is appreciated :)
I can imagine stuff like -- if you live in Paris, no matter what you do to the kid, he'll always end up a Frenchman. That's not a aphorism or pithy example that I know of, but it captures the sentiment that, under certain conditions, no matter how you try to shape the early conditions, some entities always end up at certain attractors.
Phrases from languages and cultures other than English-speaking Americans would be great, although anything is appreciated :)
I can imagine stuff like -- if you live in Paris, no matter what you do to the kid, he'll always end up a Frenchman. That's not a aphorism or pithy example that I know of, but it captures the sentiment that, under certain conditions, no matter how you try to shape the early conditions, some entities always end up at certain attractors.
Que sera, sera. Whatever will be, will be.
posted by samthemander at 8:42 AM on October 30, 2018
posted by samthemander at 8:42 AM on October 30, 2018
"No matter where you go... there you are"
posted by jessamyn at 8:43 AM on October 30, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 8:43 AM on October 30, 2018 [8 favorites]
"After changes upon changes, we are more or less the same."
From "The Boxer," by Simon and Garfunkel
posted by maurreen at 8:49 AM on October 30, 2018
From "The Boxer," by Simon and Garfunkel
posted by maurreen at 8:49 AM on October 30, 2018
Mutatis, mutandis
posted by Mogur at 8:50 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Mogur at 8:50 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
'It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.'
posted by Chairboy at 9:01 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Chairboy at 9:01 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
"You can take an [x] out of the [y], but you can't take the [y] out of an [x]."
(Mutatis mutandis just means "the change(s) being made.")
posted by praemunire at 9:08 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
(Mutatis mutandis just means "the change(s) being made.")
posted by praemunire at 9:08 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
(Mutatis mutandis just means "the change(s) being made.")
Arg! You're right. I should have gone for "Res eo magis mutant quo manent" or something like that. I'm getting too old to rely on memory anymore...
posted by Mogur at 9:20 AM on October 30, 2018
Arg! You're right. I should have gone for "Res eo magis mutant quo manent" or something like that. I'm getting too old to rely on memory anymore...
posted by Mogur at 9:20 AM on October 30, 2018
Ecclesiastes:
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:26 AM on October 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:26 AM on October 30, 2018 [3 favorites]
it is what it is
you can put lipstick on a pig (but it's still a pig)
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:27 AM on October 30, 2018
you can put lipstick on a pig (but it's still a pig)
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:27 AM on October 30, 2018
I was also thinking of Ecclesiastes, but especially the "all streams flow into the sea." I think I've heard it more often as "all rivers run to the sea." It doesn't matter where the river begins--on a tall mountain or a bubbling spring--and it doesn't matter how wide it is or how narrow, how deep or how shallow. At the end of the journey, it will run to the sea.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:47 AM on October 30, 2018
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:47 AM on October 30, 2018
Haters gonna hate.
posted by lakeroon at 11:13 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by lakeroon at 11:13 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Water seeks its own level.
Water never flows uphill.
You can't fight City Hall.
posted by ROTFL at 11:22 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Water never flows uphill.
You can't fight City Hall.
posted by ROTFL at 11:22 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Truth will out
posted by meijusa at 11:28 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by meijusa at 11:28 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Woodrow Wilson allegedly said something like, "it's easier to change the location of a cemetery than to change a curriculum." You could use the first half with regard to whatever topic, but the idea of the grammar of schooling (graded school systems, Carnegie units, etc.) may also be an interesting example for you to consider.
posted by papayaninja at 11:35 AM on October 30, 2018
posted by papayaninja at 11:35 AM on October 30, 2018
Vonnegut on American politics (in the early 70s!):
The two real political parties in America are the Winners and the Losers. The people do not acknowledge this. They claim membership in two imaginary parties, the Republicans and the Democrats, instead. Both imaginary parties are bossed by Winners. When Republicans battle Democrats, this much is certain: Winners will win.
posted by Daily Alice at 11:58 AM on October 30, 2018
The two real political parties in America are the Winners and the Losers. The people do not acknowledge this. They claim membership in two imaginary parties, the Republicans and the Democrats, instead. Both imaginary parties are bossed by Winners. When Republicans battle Democrats, this much is certain: Winners will win.
posted by Daily Alice at 11:58 AM on October 30, 2018
“But here's some advice, boy. Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions.”
― Terry Pratchett, Night Watch
posted by Comrade_robot at 12:15 PM on October 30, 2018 [4 favorites]
― Terry Pratchett, Night Watch
posted by Comrade_robot at 12:15 PM on October 30, 2018 [4 favorites]
The King is dead, long live the King.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
All big events in history happen twice, the first time as a tragedy, the second time as a farce.
German:
Unkraut vergeht nicht. (Weed doesn't perish. Although I feel that's mostly used in a humorous,self-depreciating, but also kind of triumphant way "Look at us bad boys, still kicking after all these years!" and not so much in a resigned "there will always be assholes" tone. It's more something you might say about yourself after recovering from a serious illness).
Alter Wein in neuen Schläuchen. (Old wine in new bottles; said whenever someone tries to sell an old hat in fancy new packaging).
posted by sohalt at 3:09 PM on October 30, 2018
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
All big events in history happen twice, the first time as a tragedy, the second time as a farce.
German:
Unkraut vergeht nicht. (Weed doesn't perish. Although I feel that's mostly used in a humorous,self-depreciating, but also kind of triumphant way "Look at us bad boys, still kicking after all these years!" and not so much in a resigned "there will always be assholes" tone. It's more something you might say about yourself after recovering from a serious illness).
Alter Wein in neuen Schläuchen. (Old wine in new bottles; said whenever someone tries to sell an old hat in fancy new packaging).
posted by sohalt at 3:09 PM on October 30, 2018
"Shit always rolls downhill"
posted by aspersioncast at 3:56 PM on October 30, 2018
posted by aspersioncast at 3:56 PM on October 30, 2018
American Husband Complaint: I wanted to do X and my wife wanted to do Y so we compromised and did Y.
The Harvard Law: Under controlled conditions of light, temperature, humidity, and nutrition, the organism will do as it damn well pleases.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:37 PM on October 30, 2018
The Harvard Law: Under controlled conditions of light, temperature, humidity, and nutrition, the organism will do as it damn well pleases.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:37 PM on October 30, 2018
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
What's old is new again.
Second verse, same as the first.
posted by foxjacket at 5:18 PM on October 30, 2018
What's old is new again.
Second verse, same as the first.
posted by foxjacket at 5:18 PM on October 30, 2018
Twenty bucks, same as in town.
posted by Chairboy at 5:28 PM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Chairboy at 5:28 PM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]
Same same but different.
posted by samthemander at 6:02 PM on October 30, 2018
posted by samthemander at 6:02 PM on October 30, 2018
Water seeks it's own level.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:48 PM on October 30, 2018
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:48 PM on October 30, 2018
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“Sir, I exist!”
“However,” replied the universe,
“The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.”
posted by Etrigan at 8:29 AM on October 30, 2018 [1 favorite]