I got servered
February 16, 2006 9:19 PM Subscribe
Serverfilter: So I managed to get my hands on my father's company's old server. I know nothing about servers and related fields, but how might I get started?
When my father's company ceased operations, the hardware which had hosted his company's webpage was pretty much relegated to dust collecting. He let me have it, but as I noted above, I know nothing about the process of setting them up or operating them. Here's a picture of the two pieces of hardware.
Its a Compaq setup, one of which is titled the Proliant DL380. I couldn't find a model number on the other. Regardless, I was hoping some tech savvy MeFites might be able to tell me how I can get started on running the things and getting some use out of them. Or, if a simple layman's guide might exist, point me towards it. I appreciate any and all help.
When my father's company ceased operations, the hardware which had hosted his company's webpage was pretty much relegated to dust collecting. He let me have it, but as I noted above, I know nothing about the process of setting them up or operating them. Here's a picture of the two pieces of hardware.
Its a Compaq setup, one of which is titled the Proliant DL380. I couldn't find a model number on the other. Regardless, I was hoping some tech savvy MeFites might be able to tell me how I can get started on running the things and getting some use out of them. Or, if a simple layman's guide might exist, point me towards it. I appreciate any and all help.
Yes, those are fundamentally PCs. The DL380s are pretty old, as I recall. I think they have a built-in RAID controller, but it was butt-slow. Reliable, but slow as shit. I think all of the 380s support multiple processors, but you'll have to boot it up to find out how many it has. They won't be fast, just P3-700s or thereabouts, most likely, but if it has at least two processors it would be a solid light-duty web server.
First thing I'd do.... plug them in, hook up a keyboard and monitor, and power them up. They're just PCs.... figure out what they have in them, and then go from there.
If you don't have the root passwords for the existing OS install (and can't get them), Linux should support those boxes very well.
posted by Malor at 9:53 PM on February 16, 2006
First thing I'd do.... plug them in, hook up a keyboard and monitor, and power them up. They're just PCs.... figure out what they have in them, and then go from there.
If you don't have the root passwords for the existing OS install (and can't get them), Linux should support those boxes very well.
posted by Malor at 9:53 PM on February 16, 2006
Response by poster: Thanks so far for the input, as I said, I'm basically ignorant on the subject. I'd boot them up tonight, but the power cables were lost somewhere in the transition out of the office (thus, will purchase some tomorrow).
Upon booting them up, should I expect to find software which will lead me through a setup process? Also, again I apologize for the lack of knowledge, how do I approach the ISP side of this? Domain name?
Thanks again for the very helpful info so far.
posted by Atreides at 10:09 PM on February 16, 2006
Upon booting them up, should I expect to find software which will lead me through a setup process? Also, again I apologize for the lack of knowledge, how do I approach the ISP side of this? Domain name?
Thanks again for the very helpful info so far.
posted by Atreides at 10:09 PM on February 16, 2006
"Upon booting them up, should I expect to find software which will lead me through a setup process? "
Nope. They'll just boot up whatever was installed previously. And likely, whatever it is is woefully out of date and riddled with security holes. Please don't just plug these things into the internet or they will get hacked.
They're standard PC boxes. Dual Pentium III processors, and the others are right about the ECC RAM. You usually can't just toss more RAM from Fry's in.
What do you plan to do with these servers anyway?
posted by drstein at 10:30 PM on February 16, 2006
Nope. They'll just boot up whatever was installed previously. And likely, whatever it is is woefully out of date and riddled with security holes. Please don't just plug these things into the internet or they will get hacked.
They're standard PC boxes. Dual Pentium III processors, and the others are right about the ECC RAM. You usually can't just toss more RAM from Fry's in.
What do you plan to do with these servers anyway?
posted by drstein at 10:30 PM on February 16, 2006
They are just normal computers. No different then the one you are using now, just 'optimized' for server stuff, more reliability, etc. For all practical purposes, what you will be getting would be no different then getting a desktop PC from a friend, except with some different software -- software that if you how to do anything with, you would also know how to download off the internet for free, as almost all server software has open source equivalents.
posted by delmoi at 10:33 PM on February 16, 2006
posted by delmoi at 10:33 PM on February 16, 2006
Anyway, my advice to you would be to download an burn a Linux ISO to CD and put that in the CD drive. That will give you a 'setup' program to run through and chose software and services to run. I don't know which one is easiest to setup though, hopefully someone else will (knoppix and lycoris would be my guesses).
But again you could put that same CD into any PC in the world, run the same setup, and it would become a server, just as you could put a regular Windows XP Home CD in to these server machines, and turn it into a regular home PC (probably, unless there are some devices that XP home doesn't happen to support, but you get the idea)
posted by delmoi at 10:38 PM on February 16, 2006
But again you could put that same CD into any PC in the world, run the same setup, and it would become a server, just as you could put a regular Windows XP Home CD in to these server machines, and turn it into a regular home PC (probably, unless there are some devices that XP home doesn't happen to support, but you get the idea)
posted by delmoi at 10:38 PM on February 16, 2006
A couple of AskMeFi posts you might like:
$250 + Spare PCs = ?
I want to learn setting up a Linux server.
Wish I had a spare PC lying around...
posted by djgh at 10:53 PM on February 16, 2006
$250 + Spare PCs = ?
I want to learn setting up a Linux server.
Wish I had a spare PC lying around...
posted by djgh at 10:53 PM on February 16, 2006
Looks like you've got a Proliant DL380 with a 4 drive expansion chassis. As others have said, a basic 1 or 2 processor PIII machine, with a comparatively slow disk sub-system, and by modern standards, not a lot of storage space, considering the power it will draw and the heat it will generate. It's possible you have a G2 version, which had Xeon processors, but yours looks physically like the PIII level machine. Worth a few hundred to maybe a thousand bucks, depending on processors, memory, size of disks, and other features configured. And I think your disk unit (the bottom box in your picture) is sitting upside down...
A common setup for machines of that era configured as Web servers was to have the disk sub-system setup as 3 disks in a RAID 5 array, with the 4th disk as a hot spare. Or, to have all 4 disks in RAID 5. Disks could be anything from 4 GB Ultra 2 SCSI units, to 36 GB U160, but it was pretty common to have 9.1 GB Ultra 2 disks, for 18 (or 27, if no hot spare) GB of usable space in the RAID 5 array. Good, by the standards of its day, for reliability, but not great for speed, especially if the Web application was at all dynamically database driven. The RAID controllers used by Compaq in that class of machine was based on older Intel i960 technology, so wasn't particularly quick with RAID parity calculations, and often didn't have on board battery backup modules as standard equipment, because it was expected the machine would always be used with a big UPS. If you don't have a UPS to use with it, the RAID system can lose information in disk writes, if the power blinks, corrupting your system. Probably setup by Compaq with Windows NT 4 or maybe, Windows 2000, maybe even Small Business Server.
If the machine was literally just powered down, and pulled out of a colocation arrangement, and wasn't specifically prepared to be moved to another location and setup freshly, then, as far as the machine is concerned, when it is powered up, it should expect all its old network ID's and support services, and will be shocked and heartbroken not to find them. You won't be able to do much with it, until you either gain access to the OS to change administrative and network settings, or wipe and re-install an OS you can do something with.
Getting the admin passwords for the OS and Web applications and management packages would be a handy place to start. Rounding up installation media, drivers, and support tools should be a high priority, if you are going to spend much time fooling with this.
If you just want to look around a bit, and don't have the passwords, software installation media, or that kind of official stuff, but the machines have CD drives, you could use a Knoppix or Ubuntu LiveCD to boot. You could inspect the hardware, and maybe have a look at the file systems, if they aren't encrypted. Linux will probably run the machine, but some of the hardware may not be auto-detected, especially if the machine does, in fact, have a hardware RAID controller with propriatary firmware. Some of the old Compaq hardware "features" weren't particularly friendly to probe routines, and expected to be fed only approved OS installations, and appropriate driver disks at the right times.
Lotsa luck with your new old toys.
posted by paulsc at 11:24 PM on February 16, 2006
A common setup for machines of that era configured as Web servers was to have the disk sub-system setup as 3 disks in a RAID 5 array, with the 4th disk as a hot spare. Or, to have all 4 disks in RAID 5. Disks could be anything from 4 GB Ultra 2 SCSI units, to 36 GB U160, but it was pretty common to have 9.1 GB Ultra 2 disks, for 18 (or 27, if no hot spare) GB of usable space in the RAID 5 array. Good, by the standards of its day, for reliability, but not great for speed, especially if the Web application was at all dynamically database driven. The RAID controllers used by Compaq in that class of machine was based on older Intel i960 technology, so wasn't particularly quick with RAID parity calculations, and often didn't have on board battery backup modules as standard equipment, because it was expected the machine would always be used with a big UPS. If you don't have a UPS to use with it, the RAID system can lose information in disk writes, if the power blinks, corrupting your system. Probably setup by Compaq with Windows NT 4 or maybe, Windows 2000, maybe even Small Business Server.
If the machine was literally just powered down, and pulled out of a colocation arrangement, and wasn't specifically prepared to be moved to another location and setup freshly, then, as far as the machine is concerned, when it is powered up, it should expect all its old network ID's and support services, and will be shocked and heartbroken not to find them. You won't be able to do much with it, until you either gain access to the OS to change administrative and network settings, or wipe and re-install an OS you can do something with.
Getting the admin passwords for the OS and Web applications and management packages would be a handy place to start. Rounding up installation media, drivers, and support tools should be a high priority, if you are going to spend much time fooling with this.
If you just want to look around a bit, and don't have the passwords, software installation media, or that kind of official stuff, but the machines have CD drives, you could use a Knoppix or Ubuntu LiveCD to boot. You could inspect the hardware, and maybe have a look at the file systems, if they aren't encrypted. Linux will probably run the machine, but some of the hardware may not be auto-detected, especially if the machine does, in fact, have a hardware RAID controller with propriatary firmware. Some of the old Compaq hardware "features" weren't particularly friendly to probe routines, and expected to be fed only approved OS installations, and appropriate driver disks at the right times.
Lotsa luck with your new old toys.
posted by paulsc at 11:24 PM on February 16, 2006
It's possible you have a G2 version, which had Xeon processors, but yours looks physically like the PIII level machine.
Yep, that's a G(eneration) 1 DL380 -- by G2 they were in the gray HP cases, and the Xeons appeared in the G2s or G3s. It's a big, slow, power-hungry PC. For perspective, it'd probably go for a couple hundred bucks on eBay.
I'm about 95% sure the other box is a UPS, probably an R1500. Ah, yes, here's one on eBay, looks like the one.
posted by mendel at 6:37 AM on February 17, 2006
Yep, that's a G(eneration) 1 DL380 -- by G2 they were in the gray HP cases, and the Xeons appeared in the G2s or G3s. It's a big, slow, power-hungry PC. For perspective, it'd probably go for a couple hundred bucks on eBay.
I'm about 95% sure the other box is a UPS, probably an R1500. Ah, yes, here's one on eBay, looks like the one.
posted by mendel at 6:37 AM on February 17, 2006
Others have pretty much covered it already. These are just normal PCs in a different style case. You plug in a standard keyboard (and possibly mouse) and turn it on, and you get whatever operating system was installed previously, which will most likely be linux, although I wouldn't be surprised to find a *BSD or Windows. They all have their uses. You probably want to just wipe whatever data is on the drive and reinstall your OS of choice, because otherwise you will have to deal with recoving passwords and such.
As far as hosting goes, you will want to look for "colocation" or just "colo". The standard recommendation is the advertising forums at webhostingtalk.com. Expect to pay a flat monthly rate for rack space plus a variable amount depending on the amount of bandwidth that you need. Most of the time you just ship the thing Fedex/UPS and they set it up for you, but if you happen to have a datacenter nearby you might be able to find a host that will let you do it yourself.
But if you are really new to this I have to ask why you want to do this? Do you know how to remotely administer linux? Remember, you most likely will not have physical access to this machine and so you will have to do everything remotely. If you bodge it up you will incur great cost to either have it shipped to you or to have someone onsite mess with it. And if you've never run a linux server before there is a pretty massive learning curve. Not to mention that for most websites, colo is serious overkill. I would expect to pay $50 to $100 a month minimum for even the cheapest colo deal, and typically a lot more. The majority of websites run fine on a shared server or on a VPS/VDS, both of which are much cheaper and easier to set up.
posted by Rhomboid at 8:30 AM on February 17, 2006
As far as hosting goes, you will want to look for "colocation" or just "colo". The standard recommendation is the advertising forums at webhostingtalk.com. Expect to pay a flat monthly rate for rack space plus a variable amount depending on the amount of bandwidth that you need. Most of the time you just ship the thing Fedex/UPS and they set it up for you, but if you happen to have a datacenter nearby you might be able to find a host that will let you do it yourself.
But if you are really new to this I have to ask why you want to do this? Do you know how to remotely administer linux? Remember, you most likely will not have physical access to this machine and so you will have to do everything remotely. If you bodge it up you will incur great cost to either have it shipped to you or to have someone onsite mess with it. And if you've never run a linux server before there is a pretty massive learning curve. Not to mention that for most websites, colo is serious overkill. I would expect to pay $50 to $100 a month minimum for even the cheapest colo deal, and typically a lot more. The majority of websites run fine on a shared server or on a VPS/VDS, both of which are much cheaper and easier to set up.
posted by Rhomboid at 8:30 AM on February 17, 2006
Response by poster: Thank you again for the responses, all have been helpful.
I managed to boot them up this morning, and the server is operating on a Windows NT4 system. As predicted, its asking for a password I don't have, but I've contacted someone who might have it.
As for my hopes, what I would like to do with this setup is create a site or series of sites that would be of use to certain individuals, like family or friends. One portion might be dedicated to genealogy/family history, another to present family news, and a third might be to hobby dedicated subjects, a fourth might be dedicated to any future business related aspects for my father. I'd expect miminal traffic, but what I want is the capability to have a place where I don't need to worry about a limit on content space, etc.
It might well be that I'm building a bridge to span a stream, but thats why I brought my question here. The hardware was merely collecting dust, hence my own interest in possibly getting some type of use out of it. I'm not too afraid of a drastic learning curve, as long as I can find a guide (Book/site) that will help me along.
P.S. Djgh, thanks for the links to the other questions.
posted by Atreides at 9:15 AM on February 17, 2006
I managed to boot them up this morning, and the server is operating on a Windows NT4 system. As predicted, its asking for a password I don't have, but I've contacted someone who might have it.
As for my hopes, what I would like to do with this setup is create a site or series of sites that would be of use to certain individuals, like family or friends. One portion might be dedicated to genealogy/family history, another to present family news, and a third might be to hobby dedicated subjects, a fourth might be dedicated to any future business related aspects for my father. I'd expect miminal traffic, but what I want is the capability to have a place where I don't need to worry about a limit on content space, etc.
It might well be that I'm building a bridge to span a stream, but thats why I brought my question here. The hardware was merely collecting dust, hence my own interest in possibly getting some type of use out of it. I'm not too afraid of a drastic learning curve, as long as I can find a guide (Book/site) that will help me along.
P.S. Djgh, thanks for the links to the other questions.
posted by Atreides at 9:15 AM on February 17, 2006
There still seems to be a fundamental confusion.
Just because you've got a couple of PCs configured as servers, doesn't mean you're any closer to setting up a website than anyone else.
If you want to set up a website, then you should do what 99.9% of people with personal websites do, and that's get a web hosting service. Pay a company which specialises in web hosting to host your domain and content.
If you want to learn to set up and run web servers, that's another thing. But it seems you don't, you just want to have a website. So, sell these computers and buy yourself some hosting.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2006
Just because you've got a couple of PCs configured as servers, doesn't mean you're any closer to setting up a website than anyone else.
If you want to set up a website, then you should do what 99.9% of people with personal websites do, and that's get a web hosting service. Pay a company which specialises in web hosting to host your domain and content.
If you want to learn to set up and run web servers, that's another thing. But it seems you don't, you just want to have a website. So, sell these computers and buy yourself some hosting.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2006
Response by poster: If there's a book or guide out there which would help learn how to setup and run web servers, I actually would like to learn how to do such. I don't have the time to take classes, etc, so it'd have to be an entirely self-taught goal.
So, er, I suppose I'll need to look for some books next.
posted by Atreides at 7:20 PM on February 17, 2006
So, er, I suppose I'll need to look for some books next.
posted by Atreides at 7:20 PM on February 17, 2006
And it's not just the setting up, it's the operating load, the preventative and corrective maintenance, and the upgrade/replacement cycle planning that gets good men down...:-\
These days, a Web server is an attractive nuisance for about 2 million misanthropes, each of whom views every new Web server they find as a personal challenge to his/her mad skillz. Watch your logs, and you'll quickly see that you are paying $100 or more a month to operate a target for miscreants in the biggest game strategy tournament ever conducted. In your early efforts, you will regularly and repeatedly lose.
As you get angry, you'll learn a lot about the topic of "Internet security" and you'll realize what a stinking bag of compromised nonsense TCP/IP protocols generally are. Your Web site content development will stagnate as you spend more and more time trying to ward off attacks, and outwit the jerks. In a few months you'll be bitter and burned out on being a Webmaster and sick of trying to make email work at all.
All that said, I've never dissuaded anyone who has the bug, and an old machine, from trying. My best advice is to forgo remote locating your machine, and contact your cable company or DSL provider about a business account. For about $99/per month, you get 1-3 permanent IPs, roughly a T1 equivalent connection, access to 24 hour tech support, and maybe even a professionally configured and managed firewall/router. You set up your Web server in your spare bedroom, and when you have to re-install, repair, or otherwise deal with the hardware, it's right there in your home. You need a good UPS, some tolerance for the noise a machine running 24/7 will make at odd hours, maybe an additional $35 a month in utility power money. And you will need that bookshelf full of dry tomes b1tr0t is warning you about.
It won't be fun, or particularly educational, but it will keep you out of smoky bars and the clutches of faithless women for a few months. Lotsa luck, amigo.
posted by paulsc at 8:47 PM on February 17, 2006
These days, a Web server is an attractive nuisance for about 2 million misanthropes, each of whom views every new Web server they find as a personal challenge to his/her mad skillz. Watch your logs, and you'll quickly see that you are paying $100 or more a month to operate a target for miscreants in the biggest game strategy tournament ever conducted. In your early efforts, you will regularly and repeatedly lose.
As you get angry, you'll learn a lot about the topic of "Internet security" and you'll realize what a stinking bag of compromised nonsense TCP/IP protocols generally are. Your Web site content development will stagnate as you spend more and more time trying to ward off attacks, and outwit the jerks. In a few months you'll be bitter and burned out on being a Webmaster and sick of trying to make email work at all.
All that said, I've never dissuaded anyone who has the bug, and an old machine, from trying. My best advice is to forgo remote locating your machine, and contact your cable company or DSL provider about a business account. For about $99/per month, you get 1-3 permanent IPs, roughly a T1 equivalent connection, access to 24 hour tech support, and maybe even a professionally configured and managed firewall/router. You set up your Web server in your spare bedroom, and when you have to re-install, repair, or otherwise deal with the hardware, it's right there in your home. You need a good UPS, some tolerance for the noise a machine running 24/7 will make at odd hours, maybe an additional $35 a month in utility power money. And you will need that bookshelf full of dry tomes b1tr0t is warning you about.
It won't be fun, or particularly educational, but it will keep you out of smoky bars and the clutches of faithless women for a few months. Lotsa luck, amigo.
posted by paulsc at 8:47 PM on February 17, 2006
Response by poster: Again, thank you all for the posts.
I can't say it doesn't rapidly grow more intimidating by the moment, but depending on how hooked I become it could easily be something I wouldn't mind devoting enough time to mastering. Alas, we shall see how the dice fall.
posted by Atreides at 8:59 PM on February 17, 2006
I can't say it doesn't rapidly grow more intimidating by the moment, but depending on how hooked I become it could easily be something I wouldn't mind devoting enough time to mastering. Alas, we shall see how the dice fall.
posted by Atreides at 8:59 PM on February 17, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by cellphone at 9:37 PM on February 16, 2006