Using someone else's debit card with their permission.
October 21, 2018 4:51 PM Subscribe
I was given a debit card the other day to use for large withdrawals.
So I was surprised by a relative who gave me their debit card instead of the checks and cash that I expected to fulfill a construction thing our family is doing. I have to take out 6k per month from this debit account and each time will have to take as much out as possible as quick as possible. So if I take out the minimum daily amount it will take me 4 days to take it out each month.
The fact that her name is on the card doesn't seem to concern her. She doesn't want to do it any other way. She texted me the pin numbers and all that. Perhaps it shouldn't concern me either. If they freeze the card because they see a burly man that can't be named Rebecca at the atm, then they can just call to validate with her that it's ok with her.. But is this frowned upon? Will we deal with a lot of issues?
So I was surprised by a relative who gave me their debit card instead of the checks and cash that I expected to fulfill a construction thing our family is doing. I have to take out 6k per month from this debit account and each time will have to take as much out as possible as quick as possible. So if I take out the minimum daily amount it will take me 4 days to take it out each month.
The fact that her name is on the card doesn't seem to concern her. She doesn't want to do it any other way. She texted me the pin numbers and all that. Perhaps it shouldn't concern me either. If they freeze the card because they see a burly man that can't be named Rebecca at the atm, then they can just call to validate with her that it's ok with her.. But is this frowned upon? Will we deal with a lot of issues?
Response by poster: Even if it happens regularly every month? Would we expect a problem each month or just once every 3 months?
posted by fantasticness at 5:23 PM on October 21, 2018
posted by fantasticness at 5:23 PM on October 21, 2018
This is going to be a huge pain. It will be far, far easier to just set up a connection between your bank account and hers.
posted by rockindata at 5:23 PM on October 21, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 5:23 PM on October 21, 2018 [13 favorites]
When a bank employee sees a customer at the ATM they can't tell whose account they are transacting on. They can pull video feed from any cameras on the ATM, but that it's far easier for them to pick up the phone and call your relative and ask her if the activity is fraudulent than to go through the hassle of putting a request to pull the feed and then waiting for it to come through. (Your bank may vary).
Re: praemunire's comment, you should be able to address any fraud concerns by having your relative contact the bank to inform them that regular withdrawals will be occurring to fund a construction project.
You could have a joint account set up specifically for the construction project, and - assuming she has online banking - she could go online to transfer the funds from her account to the joint account, then as an owner of the account you could use checks, money orders, debits, branch withdrawals, etc to fund the project. That's just one solution, of course.
posted by bunderful at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Re: praemunire's comment, you should be able to address any fraud concerns by having your relative contact the bank to inform them that regular withdrawals will be occurring to fund a construction project.
You could have a joint account set up specifically for the construction project, and - assuming she has online banking - she could go online to transfer the funds from her account to the joint account, then as an owner of the account you could use checks, money orders, debits, branch withdrawals, etc to fund the project. That's just one solution, of course.
posted by bunderful at 5:47 PM on October 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you know where you are going to be doing the transactions why not just visit with them and get the details and authorizations established? Neither bank will desire to have a negative experience with a customer and should be happy to work with you to make it happen without problems.
posted by uncaken at 6:13 PM on October 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by uncaken at 6:13 PM on October 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
Don't know if it's the same where you are, but Canadian banks will make good on any fraudulent use of your card... provided your PIN has never been compromised. Of course spouses routinely share, but theoretically, you aren't supposed to tell **ANYONE**.
posted by kate4914 at 6:29 PM on October 21, 2018
posted by kate4914 at 6:29 PM on October 21, 2018
you should be able to address any fraud concerns by having your relative contact the bank to inform them that regular withdrawals will be occurring to fund a construction project.
Problem here is that even if they do make a note, fraud detection is mostly automated. I wouldn't rely on a human overriding that decision before it takes effect, even if it would help you get unfrozen faster later. There's no guarantee a fraud alert would be generated, of course, but it seems like this could be a situation where it'd be really inconvenient not to have the cash on short notice.
Joint account would go much more smoothly, I think. I assume you need at least some cash to pay day laborers, but there's also the possibility of putting at least the store purchases/subcontractors on a card and getting her to repay you later.
posted by praemunire at 6:32 PM on October 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
Problem here is that even if they do make a note, fraud detection is mostly automated. I wouldn't rely on a human overriding that decision before it takes effect, even if it would help you get unfrozen faster later. There's no guarantee a fraud alert would be generated, of course, but it seems like this could be a situation where it'd be really inconvenient not to have the cash on short notice.
Joint account would go much more smoothly, I think. I assume you need at least some cash to pay day laborers, but there's also the possibility of putting at least the store purchases/subcontractors on a card and getting her to repay you later.
posted by praemunire at 6:32 PM on October 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is really odd. Why not just transfer money using one of the million different services out there now, like Venmo or whatever? I don't know that you will encounter any serious problem with this - I imagine the worst that would happen is the bank would shut off the card and/or dump your relative as a customer - so perhaps not a big deal, but weird nonetheless.
I think if you asked the bank, they would not be happy about a non-customer using a customer's account and credentials to make withdrawals. Banks are required to monitor customer transactions - there is a whole set of "Know Your Customer" regulations/requirements around the idea that banks are supposed to keep tabs on their customers and their deposit/withdrawal activity and flag suspicious transactions for the government. I imagine that people using other people's debit cards to withdraw significant funds would not be considered kosher under those rules or general compliance principles.
posted by Mid at 7:22 PM on October 21, 2018 [5 favorites]
I think if you asked the bank, they would not be happy about a non-customer using a customer's account and credentials to make withdrawals. Banks are required to monitor customer transactions - there is a whole set of "Know Your Customer" regulations/requirements around the idea that banks are supposed to keep tabs on their customers and their deposit/withdrawal activity and flag suspicious transactions for the government. I imagine that people using other people's debit cards to withdraw significant funds would not be considered kosher under those rules or general compliance principles.
posted by Mid at 7:22 PM on October 21, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is a lot of money to be transferred every month. It seems like it would be really worth your while to spend some time in advance to figure out a more efficient and secure means of doing this. Just the fact that you would have to make multiple trips to the bank every month, month after month, is a signal that it is not the best plan.
There are quite a few ways to do money transfers that are more secure. My bank uses Zelle - no fee, a reasonably high limit (certainly much higher than an ATM machine. You can check some of the others such as PayPal or venmo to see if their transaction limits are high enough. If that doesn't work, maybe you could set up an account with the same bank as your relative (OK if it is a more convent bank) and she can go in and do a transfer to deposit money from her account into yours every month, although that requires an effort on her part, I just did this successful to get $25,000 in family member's account on the same day. There are also wire transfers - they have a fee but they are very secure, fast and fully compliant with the banking laws.
The only issue I can see is that this requires your relative to initiate the transaction. Will it be the same amount every month? If so, then some of the options make it easy to set up an automatic payment.
posted by metahawk at 8:05 PM on October 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
There are quite a few ways to do money transfers that are more secure. My bank uses Zelle - no fee, a reasonably high limit (certainly much higher than an ATM machine. You can check some of the others such as PayPal or venmo to see if their transaction limits are high enough. If that doesn't work, maybe you could set up an account with the same bank as your relative (OK if it is a more convent bank) and she can go in and do a transfer to deposit money from her account into yours every month, although that requires an effort on her part, I just did this successful to get $25,000 in family member's account on the same day. There are also wire transfers - they have a fee but they are very secure, fast and fully compliant with the banking laws.
The only issue I can see is that this requires your relative to initiate the transaction. Will it be the same amount every month? If so, then some of the options make it easy to set up an automatic payment.
posted by metahawk at 8:05 PM on October 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
Alternatively she could just write you checks now and post-date them so that they are only cashable at the start of each month (i..e one check for Nov 1, one for Dec 1 etc.)
posted by Toddles at 8:45 PM on October 21, 2018
posted by Toddles at 8:45 PM on October 21, 2018
Another potential issue here is that cash transactions in the United States over $10,000 need to be reported. That's not a huge deal as long as everything is on the up-and-up, it's filling out some paperwork at the bank (which the accountholder will need to do), but arranging your transactions in a pattern to avoid that requirement is a crime, called structuring.
While you're taking out less than that, you could run into a problem fairly quickly if you end up needing more cash than expected one month or your relative wants to withdraw a bunch of cash herself or you get off-cycle and need two months of cash in close proximity. That's not a problem you want to have.
Strange patterns of cash withdrawals (and 6k/month in repeated ATM transactions probably qualifies as strange for a consumer bank account) seem likely to attract attention from the bank's compliance/anti-money laundering folks, the bank will want to know what you're up to, and your relative handing out their debit card isn't going to help. I'd setup transfers between accounts, or open a joint account, and do this right.
posted by zachlipton at 9:56 PM on October 21, 2018
While you're taking out less than that, you could run into a problem fairly quickly if you end up needing more cash than expected one month or your relative wants to withdraw a bunch of cash herself or you get off-cycle and need two months of cash in close proximity. That's not a problem you want to have.
Strange patterns of cash withdrawals (and 6k/month in repeated ATM transactions probably qualifies as strange for a consumer bank account) seem likely to attract attention from the bank's compliance/anti-money laundering folks, the bank will want to know what you're up to, and your relative handing out their debit card isn't going to help. I'd setup transfers between accounts, or open a joint account, and do this right.
posted by zachlipton at 9:56 PM on October 21, 2018
I wouldn’t worry too much about your appearance at the ATM. You could be her husband for all they know.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:10 PM on October 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:10 PM on October 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
I would strongly advise trying to figure out a different way to do this, whether cashier's checks or a temporary joint account. Regular withdrawals of fairly large amounts of cash pose all kinds of problems, from someone staking you out at the ATM to getting flagged for fraud.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:28 PM on October 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 4:28 PM on October 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by praemunire at 4:54 PM on October 21, 2018 [5 favorites]