LegalFilter Family Farm Edition - Should I waive my timelimited option?
October 8, 2018 1:12 PM Subscribe
Should I waive my time-limited option to purchase?
YANML, I'm just wondering if this is pretty standard and basically just paperwork.
The Grownups are selling the family farm. Due to the last will and testament of the GreatGrownup there's a thing. The thing being that the G's must extend to the Children of the G's "an option of twenty days within which they can meet the offer and its terms".
My question is mostly this: Why would their lawyer request that I sign/notarize/return a document stating: "hereto does hereby waive and release all of their rights and interest under the Option and the Option is terminated."
Is this just dotting i's and crossing t's and checking off boxes on a checklist?
Is there anything wrong when my thought is to not waive my Option and to just let it expire after the 20 days. Because... if I Won The Lottery next week I'd totally buy the farm. It sorta seems to me that they should have sent two forms, one to release and one to not if they just wanted to fill in checkboxes.
So, would you waive your option or just wait for it to expire?
Note: there's no big deal over the actual sale. let the G's offload assets and spend late retirement at ease. there's still going to be the house and items and wills and C's eventually. i'm mostly just curious of the legal hand wringing.
My question is mostly this: Why would their lawyer request that I sign/notarize/return a document stating: "hereto does hereby waive and release all of their rights and interest under the Option and the Option is terminated."
Is this just dotting i's and crossing t's and checking off boxes on a checklist?
Is there anything wrong when my thought is to not waive my Option and to just let it expire after the 20 days. Because... if I Won The Lottery next week I'd totally buy the farm. It sorta seems to me that they should have sent two forms, one to release and one to not if they just wanted to fill in checkboxes.
So, would you waive your option or just wait for it to expire?
Note: there's no big deal over the actual sale. let the G's offload assets and spend late retirement at ease. there's still going to be the house and items and wills and C's eventually. i'm mostly just curious of the legal hand wringing.
Because it is a lot easier to have a stack of signatures of people waiving their right to the option rather than being sued later because someone claims they weren’t informed. It also just moves the process of clearing the title forward more quickly. They may be trying to clear the options before actually listing it for sale, since everything is the stop for three weeks otherwise.
If you win the lottery you can just buy it back at a premium- but who cares, you just won the lottery!
posted by rockindata at 1:28 PM on October 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
If you win the lottery you can just buy it back at a premium- but who cares, you just won the lottery!
posted by rockindata at 1:28 PM on October 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Someone doing a title search would need to have written evidence that you were notified of the sale and elected not to exercise the option.
posted by yclipse at 2:29 PM on October 8, 2018
posted by yclipse at 2:29 PM on October 8, 2018
Response by poster: Before it goes too far that way... This is BIGSUM land sale that I was first pinged about to get my address weeks ago. I expected a bonded notary courier of some sort the next day to sign something. There have been land surveys and stakes planted and trees marked. I have no fear of urgency.
I did get registered mail with return receipt and had to go the to post office to pick it up. My sibling has the same issue plus work and kids and their PO is not one block away. We are left to find our own Notary Publics (the lawyers did include a postage paid envelope of the non-registered-receipt (just 47¢ regular mail stamped)).
I'm assuming that my receipt of the letter started the 20-day clock on my loss of option and that the whole signing and sending back the waiver us just something you put into the Notice of Sale to make it look like a little more than a "You've been served".
This isn't a question of rude or not. The G's are my favorite people, the C's are all right decent people. This is just a question of is this how lawyers work. I'm assuming I've be properly notified to the lawyer's needs of properly notifying the holders of the option of the impending sale (the cover letter is literally "Re: Notice of Sale"). The clock is ticking. The sale is probably scheduled for November or December or the start of the new year.
It's more like if you were a lawyer in this case and you did what they did what would you expect. I'd imagine if it were important in that way that I would have been served some papers by some legal representative like being summoned to court.
It seems to me that the optimal case for the lawyers involved considering the sums involved would just do a "you've been served" type of thing instead of this "can you sign/notarize this thing and drop it in the mailbox?"
posted by zengargoyle at 3:13 PM on October 8, 2018
I did get registered mail with return receipt and had to go the to post office to pick it up. My sibling has the same issue plus work and kids and their PO is not one block away. We are left to find our own Notary Publics (the lawyers did include a postage paid envelope of the non-registered-receipt (just 47¢ regular mail stamped)).
I'm assuming that my receipt of the letter started the 20-day clock on my loss of option and that the whole signing and sending back the waiver us just something you put into the Notice of Sale to make it look like a little more than a "You've been served".
This isn't a question of rude or not. The G's are my favorite people, the C's are all right decent people. This is just a question of is this how lawyers work. I'm assuming I've be properly notified to the lawyer's needs of properly notifying the holders of the option of the impending sale (the cover letter is literally "Re: Notice of Sale"). The clock is ticking. The sale is probably scheduled for November or December or the start of the new year.
It's more like if you were a lawyer in this case and you did what they did what would you expect. I'd imagine if it were important in that way that I would have been served some papers by some legal representative like being summoned to court.
It seems to me that the optimal case for the lawyers involved considering the sums involved would just do a "you've been served" type of thing instead of this "can you sign/notarize this thing and drop it in the mailbox?"
posted by zengargoyle at 3:13 PM on October 8, 2018
Best answer: I think you are overthinking this. The best way to make clear in the documentary record that you have no claim on the property/option is to have you sign a waiver. So that's what they asked for. If you refused to sign the waiver but nevertheless failed to exercise the option within 20 days, they could prove that you failed to exercise the option within 20 days of notice, but this would be less good than the waiver because it is possible you could then argue that you were not given proper notice, or they sent the notice to the wrong place, or you didn't understand the notice, etc., etc. So they are cutting off those kind of arguments if they get you to sign the waiver.
As far as the method of transmission (i.e., they sent it by mail rather than by messenger), I don't know. U.S. Mail is a valid way to serve something like this on someone, usually. If you are in a different city/town than the people selling the farm, it may have been a hassle to try to find some kind of process server or messenger to handle it. Also, they may not really care that much about receiving your waiver quickly - perhaps the sale isn't closing for a couple of months or perhaps they don't really care that much about the document so long as the 20 days expires.
posted by Mid at 3:52 PM on October 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
As far as the method of transmission (i.e., they sent it by mail rather than by messenger), I don't know. U.S. Mail is a valid way to serve something like this on someone, usually. If you are in a different city/town than the people selling the farm, it may have been a hassle to try to find some kind of process server or messenger to handle it. Also, they may not really care that much about receiving your waiver quickly - perhaps the sale isn't closing for a couple of months or perhaps they don't really care that much about the document so long as the 20 days expires.
posted by Mid at 3:52 PM on October 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
You don't have to sign anything or go out of your way if you don't want to. But not signing could hold up the sale if there is fear of a "dirty title." If you want the lawyer to pay for the notary, or arrange to have the notary meet you, or bring the papers to your sister's house or workplace, call the lawyer and ask for that. It is in the seller's best interest, and thus in their lawyer's best interest, to make signing those documents as easy for you as possible.
posted by muddgirl at 4:07 PM on October 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 4:07 PM on October 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: OK, I'm not 100% sure because I can't see the relevant documents, and probate laws vary from state to state, but I think you may be a little confused here. Providing you notice, even notice under a will or contract, is not the same as service. The parties drafting the agreement/will/whatever can generally specify the means by which notice is to be provided to individuals entitled to notice of something. In theory, at least, that could be as casual a form as a tweet.
Service is specifically for establishing the jurisdiction of the court over you so that it has the authority to order you to do (or not do) something. If there was a lawsuit and you were a defendant or were subpoenaed to testify as a witness, you would be entitled to service. But that's not this situation.
I mean...you sound like you're aggrieved about this, somehow? I don't really see the basis. To answer your question, if I was a lawyer, I sent you notice in a standard form, and you didn't want to exercise the option, I would hope that you would be a basic grownup and sign and return the form with reasonable promptness so that everyone can get on with what's a fairly tedious process and not have to worry about a potential cloud on the title.
(Your bank can probably notarize the document for free, btw.)
posted by praemunire at 4:11 PM on October 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
Service is specifically for establishing the jurisdiction of the court over you so that it has the authority to order you to do (or not do) something. If there was a lawsuit and you were a defendant or were subpoenaed to testify as a witness, you would be entitled to service. But that's not this situation.
I mean...you sound like you're aggrieved about this, somehow? I don't really see the basis. To answer your question, if I was a lawyer, I sent you notice in a standard form, and you didn't want to exercise the option, I would hope that you would be a basic grownup and sign and return the form with reasonable promptness so that everyone can get on with what's a fairly tedious process and not have to worry about a potential cloud on the title.
(Your bank can probably notarize the document for free, btw.)
posted by praemunire at 4:11 PM on October 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
Because no one wants to deal with sour grapes later on, is why. You’d be within your legal rights, I assume, to let the 20 days expire, but you’d be making things much harder for both the sellers and buyers. You could contest this later on and it would be at best a hassle to prove that you were properly notified and at worst it could jeopardize the title transfer.
I’ve never seen a lawyer provide funds/appointments for a notary, tbh, and I do this a lot. The return envelope was nice. UPS stores in MA, for example, notarize docs for $2.50 and your bank probably does it for free.
It you like these people, sign the docs. If you don’t like them, I guess you can let the 20 days go by and wash your hands of it.
posted by lydhre at 4:22 PM on October 8, 2018
I’ve never seen a lawyer provide funds/appointments for a notary, tbh, and I do this a lot. The return envelope was nice. UPS stores in MA, for example, notarize docs for $2.50 and your bank probably does it for free.
It you like these people, sign the docs. If you don’t like them, I guess you can let the 20 days go by and wash your hands of it.
posted by lydhre at 4:22 PM on October 8, 2018
Presumably the lawyer is not sending you two forms because you have previously expressed no serious intent to buy the property. If you did intend to buy the property you would be picking up the phone and calling your relatives, not sending a form to a lawyer (or more likely, this sale to a non-family member would never have happened in the first place).
I once tried to buy a property with an option like you're describing. In my case a neighbor got first dibs, and they took it. Buying property is time-intensive and I was glad to learn the deal was off sooner rather than later.
posted by toastedcheese at 6:23 PM on October 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
I once tried to buy a property with an option like you're describing. In my case a neighbor got first dibs, and they took it. Buying property is time-intensive and I was glad to learn the deal was off sooner rather than later.
posted by toastedcheese at 6:23 PM on October 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
"This isn't a question of rude or not. The G's are my favorite people, the C's are all right decent people. This is just a question of is this how lawyers work."
One thing for sure about lawyers - they don't work for free.
What might cost you $5 and 15 minutes, can very cost them $500 in additional lawyer fees.
You have the opportunity to save your favorite people hundreds of dollars through a minimal effort, so why not help out?
posted by dum spiro spero at 7:01 PM on October 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
One thing for sure about lawyers - they don't work for free.
What might cost you $5 and 15 minutes, can very cost them $500 in additional lawyer fees.
You have the opportunity to save your favorite people hundreds of dollars through a minimal effort, so why not help out?
posted by dum spiro spero at 7:01 PM on October 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is normal. You do not send a process server (or the sheriff, depending on jurisdiction) out to knock on someone's door and personally serve them if you do not need to. If a USPS return receipt serves as evidence that you were notified of the sale, that's what they're going to do. No sense spending $100 on a process server when $2.95 in extra postage will do the job.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:04 PM on October 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:04 PM on October 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
As others have implied, the requirement that you reply within 20 days of notice is basically legal Plan B. Ideally anyone who has been offered the property according to the will either expresses interest or signs the release. Putting a time limit on it makes sure the proceedings don't drag on, but having all of the signed documents is going to make it a lot easier to proceed because no one will have to prove that you did receive notice and were properly informed.
It's completely possible that they'd escalate to tracking you down in person if you don't sign and return the document to make sure you don't try to make a claim. There's no reason for them to start with the most expensive option.
posted by mikeh at 2:28 PM on October 9, 2018
It's completely possible that they'd escalate to tracking you down in person if you don't sign and return the document to make sure you don't try to make a claim. There's no reason for them to start with the most expensive option.
posted by mikeh at 2:28 PM on October 9, 2018
Response by poster: Ha Ha Ha Ha....
Got another lawyer letter today: "for clarification your signature does not need to be notarized". "Apologize for any confusion".
The whole send-registered + get it notarized + send it back just plain-old-mail just sorta set off my 'this makes no sense'-ometer.
Just signing and sending back makes sense, the clock was started upon receipt and the rest is checkbox ticking.
I'll probably wait for my sibling to get their letter from the PO just to make sure it's all the same thing with names changed. Then send it back signed w/o delay. Probably will email lawyers and see if I can get a copy of GG's will because the section sent was interesting reading and insight into GG's thinking (he passed before I was old enough to remember him).
posted by zengargoyle at 3:01 PM on October 9, 2018
Got another lawyer letter today: "for clarification your signature does not need to be notarized". "Apologize for any confusion".
The whole send-registered + get it notarized + send it back just plain-old-mail just sorta set off my 'this makes no sense'-ometer.
Just signing and sending back makes sense, the clock was started upon receipt and the rest is checkbox ticking.
I'll probably wait for my sibling to get their letter from the PO just to make sure it's all the same thing with names changed. Then send it back signed w/o delay. Probably will email lawyers and see if I can get a copy of GG's will because the section sent was interesting reading and insight into GG's thinking (he passed before I was old enough to remember him).
posted by zengargoyle at 3:01 PM on October 9, 2018
Response by poster: zengargole waves to the lawyers just in case it wasn't coincidence. :)
posted by zengargoyle at 3:07 PM on October 9, 2018
posted by zengargoyle at 3:07 PM on October 9, 2018
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