Is there a way to make my studio monitors play audio for my TV WELL?
October 4, 2018 4:54 PM Subscribe
I like to listen to music via YouTube which I can get on my TV via Roku. But it doesn't sound good through the TV's speakers (of course it doesn't!). The TV is pretty crappy - it's an Olevia, 30". I also happen to have a pair of studio monitors -- (Mackie MR5). I thought that if I could plug my monitors into the TV I would have great sound for music AND regular TV shows. So I did plug them in. BUT...
what I found, sadly, was that the studio monitors are so "bassy" and so LOUD that, in order to hear the TV shows normally, I had to put the TV set volume all the way down and still the sound was too loud and bassy. (however, the sound for the YouTube music through the TV was fantastic.)
Is there anything I can do about this problem? Would plugging the monitors into a separate amplifier BEFORE they go into the TV do anything as far as controlling the volume and bass/treble ration? If there is a way to adjust the sound for music<>TV shows easily, here is a secondary issue: I would love to buy whatever I need to make these monitors wireless (Bluetooth). But I only want to do that if I can adjust the sound to make my TV characters sound like humans.
thanks
what I found, sadly, was that the studio monitors are so "bassy" and so LOUD that, in order to hear the TV shows normally, I had to put the TV set volume all the way down and still the sound was too loud and bassy. (however, the sound for the YouTube music through the TV was fantastic.)
Is there anything I can do about this problem? Would plugging the monitors into a separate amplifier BEFORE they go into the TV do anything as far as controlling the volume and bass/treble ration? If there is a way to adjust the sound for music<>TV shows easily, here is a secondary issue: I would love to buy whatever I need to make these monitors wireless (Bluetooth). But I only want to do that if I can adjust the sound to make my TV characters sound like humans.
thanks
How are you plugging the speakers into the TV? It might not be line-level going into the speakers and it's blowing up your signal.
If you look on page 8 of the manual, you'll see a section for "Input Level," a knob on the back of each speaker. Turn this almost all the way to zero and see how it goes.
Lastly, my TV's menu has a setting deep down that is called something like "automatic volume compensation," and it's used to equalize the (basic) volumes of the TV, the DVD player, Roku, etc. See if you have something similar in yours that might do the same thing, the basic idea being to turn the internal volume scale down.
posted by rhizome at 10:43 PM on October 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you look on page 8 of the manual, you'll see a section for "Input Level," a knob on the back of each speaker. Turn this almost all the way to zero and see how it goes.
Lastly, my TV's menu has a setting deep down that is called something like "automatic volume compensation," and it's used to equalize the (basic) volumes of the TV, the DVD player, Roku, etc. See if you have something similar in yours that might do the same thing, the basic idea being to turn the internal volume scale down.
posted by rhizome at 10:43 PM on October 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I too am curious to hear how you are physically plugging them in. RCA jacks?
It’s a bit overkill but you could solve this problem with a cheap mixer that has an EQ. Mackie makes pretty good ones, you can probably pick up a used mix8 for $50, and that would let you easily route other stuff into the monitors too.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:24 AM on October 5, 2018
It’s a bit overkill but you could solve this problem with a cheap mixer that has an EQ. Mackie makes pretty good ones, you can probably pick up a used mix8 for $50, and that would let you easily route other stuff into the monitors too.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:24 AM on October 5, 2018
Best answer: Hmm I have some thoughts about this - I've done the same thing with my TV but had good results. If you can't find a setting in the TV menu to fix this, here's a possible cause of the problem.
It could be that the TV has built in EQ (tone adjustment) to try and compensate for the very small internal speakers that will not reproduce bass. It may be boosting the bass of the audio signal, so that by the time the small speakers attenuate the bass, it comes out sort of even when the sound reaches your ears.
A well designed signal path would only apply this EQ compensation to tv's internal speakers and amp, and not to external outputs. But alas, cheap TV's often don't have well designed signal paths.
Are you using the headphone jack output to get sound out of the TV to the speakers? That's what I do on my TV, and it works great, as plugging into the headphone jack mutes the TV speakers, and I can still control the TV volume with the TV remote. However, if I was a TV designer looking to save money, I would not include a separate headphone amp, and would just switch the internal speaker amp to the headphone jack when a cord is inserted. That would save money - but any EQ compensation would be sent to the headphone output as well.
Here are some workarounds you might try:
1. use another audio output. If you are using the headphone out, try a line out. I'd avoid a speaker output from your TV as your Mackie monitors expect a line level, not speaker level input. TV volume remote may not work.
2. Can you use an optical output? A converter box like this could take the optical audio output and switch it to analog audio output. You will need to buy an optical cable, and you might not get remote control of the volume with your TV remote.
I've bought that converter box - it sounds fine. Not amazing audio but not hums or buzzes and good enough for TV.
3. If you have another audio output that works, but you are still hearing audio from the crappy internal TV speakers, use a headphone cord plugged into the TV headphone jack to force the internal speakers to mute. You could cut the ends off of an old pair of earbuds.
4. If you use a line output or optical output and sound is better, but you cannot use TV remote to change the volume, you could buy an actual AV receiver. Many of them can be taught to change the receiver volume when you press the TV remote volume buttons. However, the receiver will have speaker level outputs, not the line-level outputs your active Mackie speakers will expect. I do not know if there are AV receivers that have volume-variable outputs. Maybe the receiver headphone jack would work. But that's a lot of cash to drop to get volume control.
5. buy a different TV. If you want to stick with stereo sound with your external speakers, bring a pair of headphones to the store and test a few TV's with headphone outputs. If the headphone audio sounds good, clean, and unmodified, then it's likely that it will work well with your powered speakers.
Also - the above suggestions about speaker placement in corners adding bass are correct and worth noting.
posted by sol at 5:57 AM on October 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
It could be that the TV has built in EQ (tone adjustment) to try and compensate for the very small internal speakers that will not reproduce bass. It may be boosting the bass of the audio signal, so that by the time the small speakers attenuate the bass, it comes out sort of even when the sound reaches your ears.
A well designed signal path would only apply this EQ compensation to tv's internal speakers and amp, and not to external outputs. But alas, cheap TV's often don't have well designed signal paths.
Are you using the headphone jack output to get sound out of the TV to the speakers? That's what I do on my TV, and it works great, as plugging into the headphone jack mutes the TV speakers, and I can still control the TV volume with the TV remote. However, if I was a TV designer looking to save money, I would not include a separate headphone amp, and would just switch the internal speaker amp to the headphone jack when a cord is inserted. That would save money - but any EQ compensation would be sent to the headphone output as well.
Here are some workarounds you might try:
1. use another audio output. If you are using the headphone out, try a line out. I'd avoid a speaker output from your TV as your Mackie monitors expect a line level, not speaker level input. TV volume remote may not work.
2. Can you use an optical output? A converter box like this could take the optical audio output and switch it to analog audio output. You will need to buy an optical cable, and you might not get remote control of the volume with your TV remote.
I've bought that converter box - it sounds fine. Not amazing audio but not hums or buzzes and good enough for TV.
3. If you have another audio output that works, but you are still hearing audio from the crappy internal TV speakers, use a headphone cord plugged into the TV headphone jack to force the internal speakers to mute. You could cut the ends off of an old pair of earbuds.
4. If you use a line output or optical output and sound is better, but you cannot use TV remote to change the volume, you could buy an actual AV receiver. Many of them can be taught to change the receiver volume when you press the TV remote volume buttons. However, the receiver will have speaker level outputs, not the line-level outputs your active Mackie speakers will expect. I do not know if there are AV receivers that have volume-variable outputs. Maybe the receiver headphone jack would work. But that's a lot of cash to drop to get volume control.
5. buy a different TV. If you want to stick with stereo sound with your external speakers, bring a pair of headphones to the store and test a few TV's with headphone outputs. If the headphone audio sounds good, clean, and unmodified, then it's likely that it will work well with your powered speakers.
Also - the above suggestions about speaker placement in corners adding bass are correct and worth noting.
posted by sol at 5:57 AM on October 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
In addition to the suggestions above, you might want to try playing with the TV's surround settings. Sometimes, those settings can make a big difference on the level of the center channel content (where dialog usually is) when you're just using two speakers.
posted by jonathanhughes at 9:02 AM on October 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by jonathanhughes at 9:02 AM on October 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Isolate your speakers with spikes and move them away from walls/corners.
posted by rachaelfaith at 10:08 AM on October 5, 2018
posted by rachaelfaith at 10:08 AM on October 5, 2018
Response by poster: I've been using RCA cables. And the RCA input into the monitors says "Unbalanced" next to it. I see there are two other options: XLR(Balanced) and TRS (Balanced). I wonder if I should try those. I have no idea what the output from the TV is supposed to be for either of those, though (what kind of cables I'm supposed to buy to use them.)
(another note: When I connected with the RCAs, I did block the sound from coming out of the TV speaker by means of blocking the little headphone out jack.)
posted by DMelanogaster at 10:09 AM on October 5, 2018
(another note: When I connected with the RCAs, I did block the sound from coming out of the TV speaker by means of blocking the little headphone out jack.)
posted by DMelanogaster at 10:09 AM on October 5, 2018
XLR/TRS is not going to help, they're just fancier connectors for the same signal. It's a matter of the speakers being on full-blast all the time (as all powered monitors are), which is why the Input Level setting is relevant: lowering the maximum output of the speakers to a comfortable range.
RCA outputs on your TV say that at the very least you are indeed using a line-level signal, so that's good.
Another Plan B is to get a studio monitor controller that sits between the TV and the speakers and allows you to control their volume.
posted by rhizome at 10:31 AM on October 5, 2018
RCA outputs on your TV say that at the very least you are indeed using a line-level signal, so that's good.
Another Plan B is to get a studio monitor controller that sits between the TV and the speakers and allows you to control their volume.
posted by rhizome at 10:31 AM on October 5, 2018
Yeah using a balanced cable on an unbalanced signal won't have any real benefit.
Would plugging the monitors into a separate amplifier BEFORE they go into the TV do anything as far as controlling the volume and bass/treble ration?
Yes. You'll want to turn the TV most of the way down and turn the signal up/eq it with the amp.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:08 PM on October 5, 2018
Would plugging the monitors into a separate amplifier BEFORE they go into the TV do anything as far as controlling the volume and bass/treble ration?
Yes. You'll want to turn the TV most of the way down and turn the signal up/eq it with the amp.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:08 PM on October 5, 2018
I agree with rhizome and aspersioncast - unbalanced RCS vs. balanced TRS/XLR is not the issue here. For what you are doing unbalanced is perfectly fine.
Have you tried getting a headphone jack to RCA cable adaptor like this and using that to get signal from the TV to your Mackie monitors? Who knows, that headphone jack might have better signal than the RCA outputs you are using.
posted by sol at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2018
Have you tried getting a headphone jack to RCA cable adaptor like this and using that to get signal from the TV to your Mackie monitors? Who knows, that headphone jack might have better signal than the RCA outputs you are using.
posted by sol at 3:06 PM on October 5, 2018
a way to adjust the sound for music<>TV shows easily
Nthing look in your TV menu. Also Nthing adjustments on the Mackies, including placement near walls and making sure the tweeters are more-or-less the same height as your ears when you're seated on your couch or whatever.
I've been using RCA cables.
Are you 110% sure you're connecting from an "audio out" pair of jacks on the TV, and not a "speaker" output or something else? "Speaker" outputs may have some processing going on to compensate for crap TV speakers.
Would plugging the monitors into a separate amplifier BEFORE they go into the TV do anything as far as controlling the volume and bass/treble ration?
Maybe, although you want to be careful with this; by "amplifier" I assume you mean more like A/V receiver, which does have an amplifier in it, but you don't want to connect the speaker outputs of a receiver to your Mackies, you want to connect an "audio out" of the receiver to them. The Mackies already have an amplifier built into them.
I would love to buy whatever I need to make these monitors wireless (Bluetooth)
Is there a particular reason you want to do this? It definitely won't sound any better, especially because while the tech is getting better, Bluetooth is known to have latency issues - meaning it's not really fast enough and there's a good chance your sound will be out of sync with the picture.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:58 PM on October 5, 2018
Nthing look in your TV menu. Also Nthing adjustments on the Mackies, including placement near walls and making sure the tweeters are more-or-less the same height as your ears when you're seated on your couch or whatever.
I've been using RCA cables.
Are you 110% sure you're connecting from an "audio out" pair of jacks on the TV, and not a "speaker" output or something else? "Speaker" outputs may have some processing going on to compensate for crap TV speakers.
Would plugging the monitors into a separate amplifier BEFORE they go into the TV do anything as far as controlling the volume and bass/treble ration?
Maybe, although you want to be careful with this; by "amplifier" I assume you mean more like A/V receiver, which does have an amplifier in it, but you don't want to connect the speaker outputs of a receiver to your Mackies, you want to connect an "audio out" of the receiver to them. The Mackies already have an amplifier built into them.
I would love to buy whatever I need to make these monitors wireless (Bluetooth)
Is there a particular reason you want to do this? It definitely won't sound any better, especially because while the tech is getting better, Bluetooth is known to have latency issues - meaning it's not really fast enough and there's a good chance your sound will be out of sync with the picture.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:58 PM on October 5, 2018
Response by poster: The suggestion is to get *either* the headphone jack to RCA cable adapter OR the optical converter? This is all very complicated for me.
(and I guess Bluetooth/wireless is irrelevant - it would make sense if I can't get a better sound from the TV and need to do what I've been doing all along -- plug the monitors into my laptop -- a pain to do every time you want to listen to music; in this scenarios converting the monitors to wireless would be miraculous -- but it's another topic, sorry)
posted by DMelanogaster at 6:56 AM on October 6, 2018
(and I guess Bluetooth/wireless is irrelevant - it would make sense if I can't get a better sound from the TV and need to do what I've been doing all along -- plug the monitors into my laptop -- a pain to do every time you want to listen to music; in this scenarios converting the monitors to wireless would be miraculous -- but it's another topic, sorry)
posted by DMelanogaster at 6:56 AM on October 6, 2018
The suggestion is to get *either* the headphone jack to RCA cable adapter OR the optical converter?
Yes. The headphone jack is an analog output, your Mackies want analog input. The headphone to RCA cable is just converting the connectors, not the actual audio signal. (I honestly don't know if or why this would be a significant improvement over what you're using now, but it's certainly possible. Cheap electronics = who knows?)
The optical output from your TV (assuming you have one) is a digital signal and uses an entirely different type of cable, so you would need the converter box to convert from digital to analog. Many AV receivers have optical inputs built in, mostly because it simplifies connections if you're actually doing surround sound.
If you could shoot us the actual model of the TV we might be able to find a manual that would provide more info on what specifically might be going on with your TV settings or connections.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:18 AM on October 6, 2018
Yes. The headphone jack is an analog output, your Mackies want analog input. The headphone to RCA cable is just converting the connectors, not the actual audio signal. (I honestly don't know if or why this would be a significant improvement over what you're using now, but it's certainly possible. Cheap electronics = who knows?)
The optical output from your TV (assuming you have one) is a digital signal and uses an entirely different type of cable, so you would need the converter box to convert from digital to analog. Many AV receivers have optical inputs built in, mostly because it simplifies connections if you're actually doing surround sound.
If you could shoot us the actual model of the TV we might be able to find a manual that would provide more info on what specifically might be going on with your TV settings or connections.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:18 AM on October 6, 2018
As a general rule, if changing the TV volume changes the Mackie volume, you're using a headphone-type output. If it doesn't, you're using a line-level one.
posted by rhizome at 10:59 AM on October 6, 2018
posted by rhizome at 10:59 AM on October 6, 2018
Response by poster: Well I'm going from RCA out on the TV to RCA in on the monitors. The sound is ALSO coming out of the TV speakers. When I put a mini-headphone jack into the opening for that (headphones out) it blocks ALL the sound, even that which is coming out of the monitors. However, it seems that I no longer mind the bassiness that much on the TV anymore. Moreover, I tried various settings on the monitors and I can't perceive any differences among them
So -- if there is any way to get more treble, less bass, that would be great! otherwise I'll just live with this the way it is.
posted by DMelanogaster at 11:53 AM on October 6, 2018
So -- if there is any way to get more treble, less bass, that would be great! otherwise I'll just live with this the way it is.
posted by DMelanogaster at 11:53 AM on October 6, 2018
Best answer: OK, found the manual for the TV here.
When I put a mini-headphone jack into the opening for that (headphones out) it blocks ALL the sound
Yeah, this is pretty normal for a lot of electronics - the manufacturer assumes if you're plugging anything into the headphone jack you specifically want to listen only on headphones and have no sound from any other sources, so the device will automatically mute any other outputs or built-in speakers.
Relevant pages of the manual are 24 & 25 for connections, and page 35 for the Audio menu on the TV.
From page 24: "Note: if you connect a Home Theater Sound System, please disable the TV's speakers in the OSD by selecting off in audio section. Volume adjustment must be made on the Home Theater Receiver." IOW, Olevia is clearly assuming that you'll be connecting the audio out to another device with its own remote/volume control. You can have both the TV speakers and your Mackies on and control the volume with the TV remote, or you can turn the TV speakers off (possibly also disabling any other audio control from the TV menu) and control the volume and tone solely from the Mackies. If you wanted remote control of the volume of the Mackies you could get the IR remote rhizome linked to above. (Again, I would not recommend getting into Bluetooth.)
Page 35 of the manual runs through your audio menu options on the TV itself - you do have basic "Treble" and "Bass" up-or-down options. Not much else, though.
So, basically, your options are (in no particular order):
1) Continue as you are, using the RCA outputs to the Mackies. You're hearing both the TV speakers and the Mackies. (The manual says not to do this, claims damage may result, but I honestly can't imagine how.) Your TV remote controls the overall volume, you can play around with Treble & Bass settings on the TV, the settings on the Mackies, the volume of the Mackies relative to the TV speakers (by adjusting the volume on the Mackies), see if you can find a happy medium.
2) Buy the headphone to RCA adapter cable linked by sol. This will mute your TV speakers, you'll be getting sound only from your Mackies, your TV remote should (AFAICT) still control the volume and treble & bass settings from the TV. Again, play around with the TV menu & Mackie treble & bass settings to see if you can get a sound you like.
3) Use the RCA outs to the Mackies, go into the TV menu and turn the speakers off. You will be getting sound only from the Mackies, but you will have no remote control of the volume unless you buy the remote rhizome linked or something similar. You may or may not be able to still adjust treble and bass on the TV menu.
4) Get an AV receiver, connect the RCA outputs of the TV to the receiver, connect RCA audio outputs of the receiver to the Mackies, turn the TV speakers off, use the AV receiver remote to control volume & use whatever Treble/Bass/EQ controls are on the receiver to change the tone. (Honestly, this one seems like more trouble than it's worth for what you want to do for now.)
posted by soundguy99 at 10:36 AM on October 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
When I put a mini-headphone jack into the opening for that (headphones out) it blocks ALL the sound
Yeah, this is pretty normal for a lot of electronics - the manufacturer assumes if you're plugging anything into the headphone jack you specifically want to listen only on headphones and have no sound from any other sources, so the device will automatically mute any other outputs or built-in speakers.
Relevant pages of the manual are 24 & 25 for connections, and page 35 for the Audio menu on the TV.
From page 24: "Note: if you connect a Home Theater Sound System, please disable the TV's speakers in the OSD by selecting off in audio section. Volume adjustment must be made on the Home Theater Receiver." IOW, Olevia is clearly assuming that you'll be connecting the audio out to another device with its own remote/volume control. You can have both the TV speakers and your Mackies on and control the volume with the TV remote, or you can turn the TV speakers off (possibly also disabling any other audio control from the TV menu) and control the volume and tone solely from the Mackies. If you wanted remote control of the volume of the Mackies you could get the IR remote rhizome linked to above. (Again, I would not recommend getting into Bluetooth.)
Page 35 of the manual runs through your audio menu options on the TV itself - you do have basic "Treble" and "Bass" up-or-down options. Not much else, though.
So, basically, your options are (in no particular order):
1) Continue as you are, using the RCA outputs to the Mackies. You're hearing both the TV speakers and the Mackies. (The manual says not to do this, claims damage may result, but I honestly can't imagine how.) Your TV remote controls the overall volume, you can play around with Treble & Bass settings on the TV, the settings on the Mackies, the volume of the Mackies relative to the TV speakers (by adjusting the volume on the Mackies), see if you can find a happy medium.
2) Buy the headphone to RCA adapter cable linked by sol. This will mute your TV speakers, you'll be getting sound only from your Mackies, your TV remote should (AFAICT) still control the volume and treble & bass settings from the TV. Again, play around with the TV menu & Mackie treble & bass settings to see if you can get a sound you like.
3) Use the RCA outs to the Mackies, go into the TV menu and turn the speakers off. You will be getting sound only from the Mackies, but you will have no remote control of the volume unless you buy the remote rhizome linked or something similar. You may or may not be able to still adjust treble and bass on the TV menu.
4) Get an AV receiver, connect the RCA outputs of the TV to the receiver, connect RCA audio outputs of the receiver to the Mackies, turn the TV speakers off, use the AV receiver remote to control volume & use whatever Treble/Bass/EQ controls are on the receiver to change the tone. (Honestly, this one seems like more trouble than it's worth for what you want to do for now.)
posted by soundguy99 at 10:36 AM on October 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
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1: When you put your MRs in a corner or up against walls, their bass characteristics change. The apparent loudness of the low frequencies increases when the monitors are placed close to a wall, and even more so when they are placed in a corner.
If you have placed the monitors against the walls and would like to lower the bass, try setting the acoustic space switch to the –2 dB [Half Space] position. If the monitors are in the corners, try the –4 dB [Quarter Space] position.
(also as generic advice, you can move the speakers away from walls and corners.)
2: The MRs are designed to provide a smooth frequency response throughout the mid and high range. Nevertheless, you may decide that you need a little more or a little less high frequencies in your monitors while you are mixing. The high freq filter switch provides a gentle boost or cut to the tweeter. Remember that boosting the high frequencies in the monitors can result in a duller mix, while reducing the high frequencies can result in a brighter overall mix.
posted by GuyZero at 5:04 PM on October 4, 2018 [1 favorite]