What are my responsibilities as a carpool parent for a teen?
September 6, 2018 11:58 AM Subscribe
I conditionally agreed to carpool another teenager to school with mine. Conditions seem to be changing. How do I handle this ethically, also practically the conversation with the other parents?
I was contacted by a teenager - let's call him Alan - who asked if he could carpool with our family and my daughter 'Beryl' to and from school. I had no problem with this, even though it's about a half hour more driving for me every day, because we and Alan live about a half hour driving distance away from the school, in an area where transit is pretty rough and would take over an hour and a half each way. I told him that he should find a backup, though, as I would be getting a job soon and wouldn't be able to do it anymore.
We have been doing this for about a week and a half, and in honesty, I am somewhat frustrated with the situation already even as it currently stands, because I feel like I agreed to take on the physical transport of Alan from point A to point B, and it feels like I instead am having to take on the executive function labor of, say, telling Alan to come outside his house and get in the car when the car is there at the exact same time every day, or texting Alan to come outside the school to the car. It feels like managing another kid instead of just driving them, which I feel I did not sign up for.
However, the problem right now is that clubs are now starting, and Beryl is pretty active in clubs and other after school events. These often run a few hours past school time. I feel like it's pretty reasonable to say I will continue picking them up together, and Alan can just use the library until that time, but Beryl feels like it's a lot of pressure for her not to participate, because her normal events often run until 6 or 7, which means Alan would be waiting and just hanging out for three or four hours.
However, picking Alan up by himself and then coming back later for Beryl would add another hour of driving onto my day, would mean I could get less done at home, and also makes it harder for me to go out on interviews for the job I really need to secure. I do not want to do it, but also, I don't want Beryl to feel like she can't participate in fun school activities without feeling like a terrible human being.
I don't know what I should do. I have asked Alan for his parent's contact info so I can talk to them, but I'm not sure how to pitch to them or what to pitch to them either. What should I do and say?
I was contacted by a teenager - let's call him Alan - who asked if he could carpool with our family and my daughter 'Beryl' to and from school. I had no problem with this, even though it's about a half hour more driving for me every day, because we and Alan live about a half hour driving distance away from the school, in an area where transit is pretty rough and would take over an hour and a half each way. I told him that he should find a backup, though, as I would be getting a job soon and wouldn't be able to do it anymore.
We have been doing this for about a week and a half, and in honesty, I am somewhat frustrated with the situation already even as it currently stands, because I feel like I agreed to take on the physical transport of Alan from point A to point B, and it feels like I instead am having to take on the executive function labor of, say, telling Alan to come outside his house and get in the car when the car is there at the exact same time every day, or texting Alan to come outside the school to the car. It feels like managing another kid instead of just driving them, which I feel I did not sign up for.
However, the problem right now is that clubs are now starting, and Beryl is pretty active in clubs and other after school events. These often run a few hours past school time. I feel like it's pretty reasonable to say I will continue picking them up together, and Alan can just use the library until that time, but Beryl feels like it's a lot of pressure for her not to participate, because her normal events often run until 6 or 7, which means Alan would be waiting and just hanging out for three or four hours.
However, picking Alan up by himself and then coming back later for Beryl would add another hour of driving onto my day, would mean I could get less done at home, and also makes it harder for me to go out on interviews for the job I really need to secure. I do not want to do it, but also, I don't want Beryl to feel like she can't participate in fun school activities without feeling like a terrible human being.
I don't know what I should do. I have asked Alan for his parent's contact info so I can talk to them, but I'm not sure how to pitch to them or what to pitch to them either. What should I do and say?
Oh hell no. Stop trying to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. You are doing a favor to Alan and presumably his parents. This means he/they work around your and Beryl's schedule, not the other way around.
Mornings: You tell Alan that he is expected to be outside waiting for you when you arrive at X time. If he is not outside waiting you will presume he is sick or finding another way to school.
Afternoons: You tell Alan that you leave at *whatever time Beryl's club is finished*. He will need to be at *designated pick up spot that is most convenient for you and Beryl*. If he is not there you presume he found another way home. If the times are different for different days/club activities I would do the additional favor of giving him a printed/written sheet of paper with days/times for pickups if they differ. Once.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 12:09 PM on September 6, 2018 [82 favorites]
Mornings: You tell Alan that he is expected to be outside waiting for you when you arrive at X time. If he is not outside waiting you will presume he is sick or finding another way to school.
Afternoons: You tell Alan that you leave at *whatever time Beryl's club is finished*. He will need to be at *designated pick up spot that is most convenient for you and Beryl*. If he is not there you presume he found another way home. If the times are different for different days/club activities I would do the additional favor of giving him a printed/written sheet of paper with days/times for pickups if they differ. Once.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 12:09 PM on September 6, 2018 [82 favorites]
If I were you, I would just say tell him "we depart at X time with or without you". Your responsibility is to be there at that time OR give him ample notice if you will not be available at the agreed upon time.
The one doing the favor gets to dictate the rules.
posted by jraz at 12:09 PM on September 6, 2018 [14 favorites]
The one doing the favor gets to dictate the rules.
posted by jraz at 12:09 PM on September 6, 2018 [14 favorites]
Whoa. This seems really unreasonable and unsustainable. At a minimum I would stand firm on doing pickup once, when Beryl's done with clubs.
posted by missrachael at 12:09 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by missrachael at 12:09 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Uh, do they even know you are transporting their kid? I honestly would just talk to Alan. "Sorry, Alan, but for a few reasons this carpool thing is not working out for me. I'm really sorry, and if you are ever hard up for a ride home you can meet up with me when I am picking up Beryl, but it's not going to be a regular thing anymore."
posted by Rock Steady at 12:11 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 12:11 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
Oh my goodness, there is no way it's even reasonable or appropriate for you to just drive Alan without Beryl.
Somehow this kid has gotten to school on his own for all these years, and the family can figure that out again. It's very nice of you to pick him up when Beryl is going too. You absolutely should not spend your precious time going back and forth for someone else's kid. (I mean it would be different to do a short term favor for a neighbor when their own parent is sick or something like that. There is no way though that it should be your actual responsibility.)
Tell him that he can have a ride when Beryl is coming home with you on a normal day. If those are few and far between, tell him now that Beryl has an activity you can't pick them up til 7. If he wants to ask Beryl every day if she is going home on time, he can do that, I guess.
I would not go to Alan's house and leave without him if he's not ready. But I would say: "Alan, you need to be waiting for us when we pull up. Sorry but if you aren't ready and waiting, I am going to stop coming to get you. Next time I have to wait for you, I'm sorry but it will be the last time I pick you up at home."
posted by nantucket at 12:11 PM on September 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
Somehow this kid has gotten to school on his own for all these years, and the family can figure that out again. It's very nice of you to pick him up when Beryl is going too. You absolutely should not spend your precious time going back and forth for someone else's kid. (I mean it would be different to do a short term favor for a neighbor when their own parent is sick or something like that. There is no way though that it should be your actual responsibility.)
Tell him that he can have a ride when Beryl is coming home with you on a normal day. If those are few and far between, tell him now that Beryl has an activity you can't pick them up til 7. If he wants to ask Beryl every day if she is going home on time, he can do that, I guess.
I would not go to Alan's house and leave without him if he's not ready. But I would say: "Alan, you need to be waiting for us when we pull up. Sorry but if you aren't ready and waiting, I am going to stop coming to get you. Next time I have to wait for you, I'm sorry but it will be the last time I pick you up at home."
posted by nantucket at 12:11 PM on September 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
If he still needs a ride in the afternoons then Alan should do his homework or other afterschool activities while waiting for your daughter to finish her own activities. You are absolutely not obligated to make two trips to the school in the afternoon/evening. If Alan doesn't want to wait around for her to finish then can't he take the regular school bus home? (is there a regular school bus?) Under no circumstances should your daughter feel like she has to stop doing her own activities which she enjoys; none of this is on her, or on you for that matter.
I don't think there needs to be any kind of negotiations wrt the afternoon pick-ups, it is absolutely an unreasonable expectation that you should make two trips, so when speaking with Alan's parent(s) you should focus on having someone make sure he is always ready to go at the usual pickup times, or get left behind. I know you won't want to take the "I'm doing you a favor so the least you could do is make it easier for me" tactic but you might have to fall back on that.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:12 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
I don't think there needs to be any kind of negotiations wrt the afternoon pick-ups, it is absolutely an unreasonable expectation that you should make two trips, so when speaking with Alan's parent(s) you should focus on having someone make sure he is always ready to go at the usual pickup times, or get left behind. I know you won't want to take the "I'm doing you a favor so the least you could do is make it easier for me" tactic but you might have to fall back on that.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:12 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
You are so kind to agree to do this, and you are totally within your bounds to say that it is not working and they need to find other arrangements. To give you an idea of what this looks like for other families, we did carpool with another family when our children attended the same school. It was about 40 minutes each way, which was a considerable ask. The other family offered, as they had a minivan and would be taking several of their children anyway, so adding one more was not a big deal. Driving parent was at home and not working at the time, so the schedule was ok for them. We paid them for gas every week. We also delivered our son to their door each morning at the agreed upon time and loaded him into the car so their day was not disrupted. He was in aftercare, so it was only in the mornings, leaving their afternoons free for whatever they needed to do.
I would tell them exactly what you have said here. The time commitment is more than you are able to take on right now. You will be driving to and from school at X and Y times. If he is ready and able to leave at those particular times you may be able to continue to carpool, but otherwise cannot continue and they need to make other arrangements.
posted by goggie at 12:12 PM on September 6, 2018
I would tell them exactly what you have said here. The time commitment is more than you are able to take on right now. You will be driving to and from school at X and Y times. If he is ready and able to leave at those particular times you may be able to continue to carpool, but otherwise cannot continue and they need to make other arrangements.
posted by goggie at 12:12 PM on September 6, 2018
Alan is not your child, and not your responsibility.
Your responsibility is your child, her activities, and not herding cats with a cowbell to get Alan out to the car on time.
"Sorry about this Alan, but (insert day and date here) is the last time I can drive you to school".
If there's any pushback, just remind Alan that this was previously discussed as a possibility and now that possibility has come to fruition.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 12:13 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
Your responsibility is your child, her activities, and not herding cats with a cowbell to get Alan out to the car on time.
"Sorry about this Alan, but (insert day and date here) is the last time I can drive you to school".
If there's any pushback, just remind Alan that this was previously discussed as a possibility and now that possibility has come to fruition.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 12:13 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
In my mind, a "school carpool" like this involves two or families splitting the share of the work to avoid duplicated effort. This isn't a carpool, you're just his chauffeur - is he even paying for part of the gas?
On top of a conversation with Alan and his parents, I think it's time for a sit-down talk with Beryl. Her statement that she doesn't want to do clubs if Alan has to wait for a ride is the most troubling part of this to me. If Alan doesn't want to wait 3-4 hours then he can take the 1.5 hour transportation home, or get a ride from someone else. What is her relationship with with Alan? Why does she feel she is his only option for getting home?
posted by muddgirl at 12:16 PM on September 6, 2018 [60 favorites]
On top of a conversation with Alan and his parents, I think it's time for a sit-down talk with Beryl. Her statement that she doesn't want to do clubs if Alan has to wait for a ride is the most troubling part of this to me. If Alan doesn't want to wait 3-4 hours then he can take the 1.5 hour transportation home, or get a ride from someone else. What is her relationship with with Alan? Why does she feel she is his only option for getting home?
posted by muddgirl at 12:16 PM on September 6, 2018 [60 favorites]
You have no obligation to Alan. Heck, my brother would leave for school without me if I wasn't ready and I would have to wait for his basketball practice to finish if I wanted a ride with him. Otherwise, I could take the bus or ask someone else or walk the 4 miles home.
Alan is still being offered a ride each way, just on your terms, the driver's terms. Nothing wrong with that at all.
posted by AugustWest at 12:23 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
Alan is still being offered a ride each way, just on your terms, the driver's terms. Nothing wrong with that at all.
posted by AugustWest at 12:23 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
Do you know what Alan’s family situation is like? I grew up in a single parent household and some times needed to ask for rides—of which, I was extremely grateful for, ashamed to ask, and often uncertain how to manage. I’m sure I’ve inconvenienced some parents as a teen, unintentionally. Once I found out I was (a parent complained in my hearing) and was mortified and never asked for a ride again
You have excellent suggestions above for discussions, I just wanted to share another perspective.
posted by inevitability at 12:26 PM on September 6, 2018 [23 favorites]
You have excellent suggestions above for discussions, I just wanted to share another perspective.
posted by inevitability at 12:26 PM on September 6, 2018 [23 favorites]
I was also in a similar position in middle school and high school. That's why I think a conversation with Beryl is in order, maybe even before talking to Alan's parents. If Alan is having home problems or financial problems, you should not be the one shouldering the burden of getting Alan to school. Hopefully there are school or community resources you can connect him with.
posted by muddgirl at 12:31 PM on September 6, 2018
posted by muddgirl at 12:31 PM on September 6, 2018
It sounds like you need to talk with Beryl first, and explain that her needs absolutely come first, and that she should in NO WAY sacrifice her activities so that Alan doesn't have to wait. If he doesn't want to wait, he can take the bus.
Then you need to talk with Alan's parents to find out their deal, and to set up expectations. How has Alan gotten to school in the past?
You say you are giving these two kids a ride every day, at least for now until you get a job. After that, how will Beryl get to school? It might be helpful to stay on Alan and his parents' good side, as the relationship may be less one-sided in the future.
But for now, I absolutely agree that Alan and his parents need to know that you will pull up to the house at X time, and give one honk of the horn. If he is not out the door at X time + 30 seconds, you will be leaving. If there are extenuating circumstances, it is on them to text you and let you know. If he is staying home from school, you need to know by X time so you aren't driving 15 minutes out of your way in the morning. You should also come up with a provision for when Beryl is staying home. You're not going to get up to drive just Alan, are you?
As for afterschool, if Beryl has a schedule, then share it with Alan and his parents. These are the times you will pick up from afterschool. If Alan is around at that time and wants a ride, great. If not, he can find another ride. It would be nice if he were in contact with Beryl during the day so that she knows whether he'll be riding with you each night.
If, in the future, circumstances change, your daughter should also be able to work within the same parameters. These seem reasonable to me.
Think about what you want, and what's reasonable, and then present that to the other parents (not just Alan, unless he's really fending for himself, and his parents aren't around).
posted by hydra77 at 12:35 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
Then you need to talk with Alan's parents to find out their deal, and to set up expectations. How has Alan gotten to school in the past?
You say you are giving these two kids a ride every day, at least for now until you get a job. After that, how will Beryl get to school? It might be helpful to stay on Alan and his parents' good side, as the relationship may be less one-sided in the future.
But for now, I absolutely agree that Alan and his parents need to know that you will pull up to the house at X time, and give one honk of the horn. If he is not out the door at X time + 30 seconds, you will be leaving. If there are extenuating circumstances, it is on them to text you and let you know. If he is staying home from school, you need to know by X time so you aren't driving 15 minutes out of your way in the morning. You should also come up with a provision for when Beryl is staying home. You're not going to get up to drive just Alan, are you?
As for afterschool, if Beryl has a schedule, then share it with Alan and his parents. These are the times you will pick up from afterschool. If Alan is around at that time and wants a ride, great. If not, he can find another ride. It would be nice if he were in contact with Beryl during the day so that she knows whether he'll be riding with you each night.
If, in the future, circumstances change, your daughter should also be able to work within the same parameters. These seem reasonable to me.
Think about what you want, and what's reasonable, and then present that to the other parents (not just Alan, unless he's really fending for himself, and his parents aren't around).
posted by hydra77 at 12:35 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
I was trying to compose a comment along the line of inevitability's. While the "be ready or be left" approach is generally appropriate for a kid his age, it is worth, as a compassionate person, trying to figure out his home situation. Is his home such that if he doesn't get a ride with you he has no other options? If so, you may want to cut him a little more slack, at least in the tone you take with him. It's a very awkward position for a kid to be in, and I would not assume that the school or county would help.
posted by praemunire at 12:45 PM on September 6, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 12:45 PM on September 6, 2018 [13 favorites]
If Alan doesn't want to spend 3-4 hours waiting around for Beryl, he can instead spend 1.5 hours on the bus. That sucks for Alan, but why is wasting an hour of your time (the extra round trip) somehow acceptable when wasting an hour of his time (he would have spent half an hour in the car anyway) is not?
Maybe Alan should take up some activities, too.
In terms of the texting thing, I don't think sending a single 'we have arrived' text message is quite the management task you describe it as, but if you then have to wait for him, that does add minutes to the process. Some options include:
-- for the mornings, telling him that you will be at a specific point at a specific time and that you will not wait if he is not there (make allowances for him to text *you* and say he needs a couple of minutes, unless he abuses that) -- he likely won't miss his ride to school (already too late to take the bus) more than a couple of times before he gets better
-- texting him as you leave your house so he knows you are X minutes away and that he needs to be waiting for you when you get there
-- having Beryl coordinate with him for the evenings, so he knows when he has to meet her in front of the school in order to be on time to meet you when you get there, perhaps the fact that he has to meet her in advance will make him more punctual than the idea that he's showing up to wait by himself?
posted by jacquilynne at 12:52 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
Maybe Alan should take up some activities, too.
In terms of the texting thing, I don't think sending a single 'we have arrived' text message is quite the management task you describe it as, but if you then have to wait for him, that does add minutes to the process. Some options include:
-- for the mornings, telling him that you will be at a specific point at a specific time and that you will not wait if he is not there (make allowances for him to text *you* and say he needs a couple of minutes, unless he abuses that) -- he likely won't miss his ride to school (already too late to take the bus) more than a couple of times before he gets better
-- texting him as you leave your house so he knows you are X minutes away and that he needs to be waiting for you when you get there
-- having Beryl coordinate with him for the evenings, so he knows when he has to meet her in front of the school in order to be on time to meet you when you get there, perhaps the fact that he has to meet her in advance will make him more punctual than the idea that he's showing up to wait by himself?
posted by jacquilynne at 12:52 PM on September 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
So morning:
This is really generous of you. I'd speak to Alan and say that you are happy to continue to pick him up in the mornings, but this adds 30 minutes to your commute, so you need him to be outside ready to go at [time] without you having to text/call/otherwise remind him. (In inclement weather, he should be waiting inside but watching out the window so he can see when you arrive, or something similar.) You can try to help him come up with solutions here.
If that doesn't work, then say "Alan, I can't continue to do this if you are not going to be ready when I am here. This week is your last chance."
This is more chances than I'd give an adult, but teens have a lot of weird things going.
Please don't honk.
Afternoon:
I always liked a lift in the morning but was indifferent in the afternoon. I'd just say that scheduling doesn't permit you to pick him up regularly in the afternoons, so he needs to make his own way home. You can offer as needed "Hey today I'll be picking Beryl up at 3, if you want a lift be [wherever it is you pick her up], if I don't see you I'll just assume you made your own way home" if he's not pushy.
posted by jeather at 12:55 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
This is really generous of you. I'd speak to Alan and say that you are happy to continue to pick him up in the mornings, but this adds 30 minutes to your commute, so you need him to be outside ready to go at [time] without you having to text/call/otherwise remind him. (In inclement weather, he should be waiting inside but watching out the window so he can see when you arrive, or something similar.) You can try to help him come up with solutions here.
If that doesn't work, then say "Alan, I can't continue to do this if you are not going to be ready when I am here. This week is your last chance."
This is more chances than I'd give an adult, but teens have a lot of weird things going.
Please don't honk.
Afternoon:
I always liked a lift in the morning but was indifferent in the afternoon. I'd just say that scheduling doesn't permit you to pick him up regularly in the afternoons, so he needs to make his own way home. You can offer as needed "Hey today I'll be picking Beryl up at 3, if you want a lift be [wherever it is you pick her up], if I don't see you I'll just assume you made your own way home" if he's not pushy.
posted by jeather at 12:55 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
I got rides a lot as a kid, in similar situations to Alan's. Have you told him any of this stuff? You don't say that you have, and I was a clueless kid who would not have assumed that you wanted me to be ready and on the sidewalk at pickup time (I mean, I'm an adult who sometimes gets rides with people and I still don't assume this; I think your expectations are at one end of a continuum with the other end being "come in and have a chat with Alan's parents every day."). You don't have to manage his morning routine, but you do have to state your expectations clearly. "If I text you and wait, it makes me late. Please be at the door ready to go at X time."
You don't have to make a separate trip after school. It is totally fair to tell him that he can choose to get home 1.5 hours after school (via public transport etc), get a ride home with family (presumably at 5 or 6pm), or get a ride with you (on whatever Beryl's schedule is). Beryl shouldn't feel beholden to any outcome, but if she wants to make things easier on him for an after-school activity she's not super into, I think that's also a choice that she can make.
posted by tchemgrrl at 12:58 PM on September 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
You don't have to make a separate trip after school. It is totally fair to tell him that he can choose to get home 1.5 hours after school (via public transport etc), get a ride home with family (presumably at 5 or 6pm), or get a ride with you (on whatever Beryl's schedule is). Beryl shouldn't feel beholden to any outcome, but if she wants to make things easier on him for an after-school activity she's not super into, I think that's also a choice that she can make.
posted by tchemgrrl at 12:58 PM on September 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
Can Alan's parent/s drop him off at your place? Or, can he ride a bike to your house? Driving 15 minutes and then having to wait because he's not ready and watching for you is really not the best option.
If you do continue to pick him up to give him rides in the AM, I would make it clear that he needs to be ready and watching for you. If he can receive your texts, he can set a number of alarms on his phone to remind him to be ready by the pickup time instead. There's no reason why you can't put the work of coordinating him back on him and his parent/s. If he can't manage that, he can't expect you to do a lot of extra work to do him a favor. I agree with having a very clear talk with him and telling him that next week is his last chance to get this right.
After school should be one of two options, get home himself on public transit or wait until Beryl is being picked up. You are not a limo service. Under no circumstances should Beryl limit her activities. If she does that to benefit Alan's schedule, I'd cancel all of the carpooling and refocus on Beryl's needs.
posted by quince at 1:03 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you do continue to pick him up to give him rides in the AM, I would make it clear that he needs to be ready and watching for you. If he can receive your texts, he can set a number of alarms on his phone to remind him to be ready by the pickup time instead. There's no reason why you can't put the work of coordinating him back on him and his parent/s. If he can't manage that, he can't expect you to do a lot of extra work to do him a favor. I agree with having a very clear talk with him and telling him that next week is his last chance to get this right.
After school should be one of two options, get home himself on public transit or wait until Beryl is being picked up. You are not a limo service. Under no circumstances should Beryl limit her activities. If she does that to benefit Alan's schedule, I'd cancel all of the carpooling and refocus on Beryl's needs.
posted by quince at 1:03 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Great advice above. I just wanted to reinforce talking to his parents. Unless an emergency, I would not drive an underage child without their parents permission. What if you got in an accident, got them to school late and they missed a test, etc.
Also, just mornings is an option that might be easiest. (And, yes, he has to come out without you reminding him.)
posted by MountainDaisy at 1:04 PM on September 6, 2018
Also, just mornings is an option that might be easiest. (And, yes, he has to come out without you reminding him.)
posted by MountainDaisy at 1:04 PM on September 6, 2018
Yeah, I think you should set up the schedule that works for you and Beryl with no regard for Alan's preferences, then let him know that he is welcome to catch a ride with you on that schedule whenever.
Regarding texting, my solution would be to text him when you set out. He will know that that means you are X minutes away (5 or 20 or however many) and that he needs to be outside at the appropriate time. I consider that to be basic coordination with someone you've giving a ride to--avoids anyone having to wait around too long, especially in the weather.
But do not go out of your way for a kid you barely know. He doesn't have to use the same way to get to/from school every day!
posted by gideonfrog at 1:08 PM on September 6, 2018
Regarding texting, my solution would be to text him when you set out. He will know that that means you are X minutes away (5 or 20 or however many) and that he needs to be outside at the appropriate time. I consider that to be basic coordination with someone you've giving a ride to--avoids anyone having to wait around too long, especially in the weather.
But do not go out of your way for a kid you barely know. He doesn't have to use the same way to get to/from school every day!
posted by gideonfrog at 1:08 PM on September 6, 2018
Unless an emergency, I would not drive an underage child without their parents permission.
This advice assumes his home life is perfect, which it may not be.
Please do talk with him first and set expectations around pickups. "I will be here at X time. Please be outside waiting for me. If it is raining or snowing I will wait just a minute or two, but if you don't come right out I'll need to leave in order to get B to school on time."
Afternoons, he has choices:
- Leave at whatever time B is ready, or
- Find a different way home.
No second trips.
It's fine to be annoyed, but please do state these expectations clearly to A first, and have a conversation with him about them, before you change the plan.
I was the kid who needed rides because my family life was not perfect. Having adults state expectations for behavior clearly was super helpful, because I didn't have "normal" standards to judge against.
posted by anastasiav at 1:11 PM on September 6, 2018 [25 favorites]
This advice assumes his home life is perfect, which it may not be.
Please do talk with him first and set expectations around pickups. "I will be here at X time. Please be outside waiting for me. If it is raining or snowing I will wait just a minute or two, but if you don't come right out I'll need to leave in order to get B to school on time."
Afternoons, he has choices:
- Leave at whatever time B is ready, or
- Find a different way home.
No second trips.
It's fine to be annoyed, but please do state these expectations clearly to A first, and have a conversation with him about them, before you change the plan.
I was the kid who needed rides because my family life was not perfect. Having adults state expectations for behavior clearly was super helpful, because I didn't have "normal" standards to judge against.
posted by anastasiav at 1:11 PM on September 6, 2018 [25 favorites]
I'm definitely with tchemgirl on this:
but you do have to state your expectations clearly.
He's a kid, and it's very likely nobody has explained stuff like this to him. Just dropping him without any explanation is... probably making a cultural hill into a cultural wall, over time.
And I don't agree with people who say that just because he's not your personal child, you (and us) don't have any responsibility to him. I think you're right to at least consider helping him.
Of course, you have to make sure you are taking care of your own stuff, and your own child, before overextending yourself. But maybe at least explaining your situation, the various claims on your time, and the way that 100 x (5 extra minutes waiting for him) really adds up, would be a real contribution to his life.
posted by amtho at 1:11 PM on September 6, 2018 [22 favorites]
but you do have to state your expectations clearly.
He's a kid, and it's very likely nobody has explained stuff like this to him. Just dropping him without any explanation is... probably making a cultural hill into a cultural wall, over time.
And I don't agree with people who say that just because he's not your personal child, you (and us) don't have any responsibility to him. I think you're right to at least consider helping him.
Of course, you have to make sure you are taking care of your own stuff, and your own child, before overextending yourself. But maybe at least explaining your situation, the various claims on your time, and the way that 100 x (5 extra minutes waiting for him) really adds up, would be a real contribution to his life.
posted by amtho at 1:11 PM on September 6, 2018 [22 favorites]
This is an obligation that would be very easy for you to bounce out of, so it occurs to me that the sticking point here is that your daughter might feel shitty if she perceives her afterschool activities to be the reason why you stop giving Alan rides.
So I would start by talking to her about the dilemma you're in, and how your priority is to make sure that she's able to participate in the clubs she's interested in, and if she opts out of those out of concern for Alan's feelings, then your attempt to do something kind and helpful will have backfired on the person you care about the most in this scenario.
Basically, you need to get her on board with not giving a shit if Alan has to wait in the library, because he's lucky that you're nice enough to give him a ride at all. And Alan needs to be on time for all pickups and not require special handling; that needs to be communicated to him if this is to continue.
How long until the job thing makes all this a moot point?
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:35 PM on September 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
So I would start by talking to her about the dilemma you're in, and how your priority is to make sure that she's able to participate in the clubs she's interested in, and if she opts out of those out of concern for Alan's feelings, then your attempt to do something kind and helpful will have backfired on the person you care about the most in this scenario.
Basically, you need to get her on board with not giving a shit if Alan has to wait in the library, because he's lucky that you're nice enough to give him a ride at all. And Alan needs to be on time for all pickups and not require special handling; that needs to be communicated to him if this is to continue.
How long until the job thing makes all this a moot point?
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:35 PM on September 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
I took two crosstown busses to school when I was 12. It took about an hour and a half.
I didn't love it, but it wouldn't have occurred to me that I had a right to have someone else drive me.
The kid won't die if you don't drive him. He won't be homeless if you don't drive him. He won't get kicked out of school if you don't drive him. He'll just have to find another ride or take the bus.
It's awfully nice of you to have offered, but that doesn't mean you have to keep doing it. The only thing you do need to do is, you absolutely must explain to Beryl that her activities come before anyone else's convenience in this case, and he can wait if he wants, or find his own way home.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:44 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
I didn't love it, but it wouldn't have occurred to me that I had a right to have someone else drive me.
The kid won't die if you don't drive him. He won't be homeless if you don't drive him. He won't get kicked out of school if you don't drive him. He'll just have to find another ride or take the bus.
It's awfully nice of you to have offered, but that doesn't mean you have to keep doing it. The only thing you do need to do is, you absolutely must explain to Beryl that her activities come before anyone else's convenience in this case, and he can wait if he wants, or find his own way home.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:44 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
I would echo others in suggesting you talk to your daughter about why she's feeling pressured to drop after-school activities if Alan would have to wait. Is he pressuring/bullying/manipulating her? Or is she valuing other people's needs (or men's/boys' needs) so much above her own that she'd give up activities she likes in order to avoid "inconveniencing" someone? (Who's not actually being inconvenienced, given that he's being done a favor.) Either way, she may need some coaching in how to handle that.
posted by lazuli at 1:46 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 1:46 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Or is she valuing other people's needs (or men's/boys' needs) so much above her own that she'd give up activities she likes in order to avoid "inconveniencing" someone?
I think this is where she's at, and it's one reason I think that I'm responding so strongly that this is not something I want to in any way endorse or back.
In response to other questions/suggestions: I don't know anything about Alan's home life and I'm not really sure how or who to ask about it. Should I talk to parents or to him?
posted by corb at 1:53 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think this is where she's at, and it's one reason I think that I'm responding so strongly that this is not something I want to in any way endorse or back.
In response to other questions/suggestions: I don't know anything about Alan's home life and I'm not really sure how or who to ask about it. Should I talk to parents or to him?
posted by corb at 1:53 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm wondering, does Beryl know what's going on with Alan? It might be a thing where Alan might be ashamed or afraid to talk about it or just be really clueless, and Beryl wants to be nice and helpful and is worried that she would be responsible for him not doing the rides. Maybe it hasn't occurred to Beryl to think through and even wonder why Alan is asking for rides? You got to find out what Beryl knows.
I feel that's how I would think as a teenager, especially because sometimes adults get frustrated with teenagers for looking older but not understanding everything. But they're still children and are learning and maybe they're just stuck in a decision loop and it's hard to think out of it.
posted by yueliang at 1:59 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
I feel that's how I would think as a teenager, especially because sometimes adults get frustrated with teenagers for looking older but not understanding everything. But they're still children and are learning and maybe they're just stuck in a decision loop and it's hard to think out of it.
posted by yueliang at 1:59 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
Beryl would be my first stop. "Do you know how Alan used to get to school?"
He won't get kicked out of school if you don't drive him. He'll just have to find another ride or take the bus.
Plenty of people have had great difficulties at work and even lost their jobs because the public transit that took them there was unreliable. I would really not be so hasty to assume that Alan's school attendance would not be affected if he had to take a dodgy 1.5-hour commute in the mornings.
posted by praemunire at 2:15 PM on September 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
He won't get kicked out of school if you don't drive him. He'll just have to find another ride or take the bus.
Plenty of people have had great difficulties at work and even lost their jobs because the public transit that took them there was unreliable. I would really not be so hasty to assume that Alan's school attendance would not be affected if he had to take a dodgy 1.5-hour commute in the mornings.
posted by praemunire at 2:15 PM on September 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
Perhaps Beryl needs a little help on not being so accommodating. The emotional labor threads are a good start. I'd tell her you'll be picking *her* up when clubs are over and Alan is welcome, but his needs are not a factor. I wonder if you downplay what a hassle this is because you are a super-nice person who would consider picking up somebody else's kid from school as a separate trip. Talk to her and maybe yourself about this stuff.
I'm guessing nobody offered you gas $ or has acknowledged that it's a massive favor because it's a massive pain. I might get a bit cranky with the kid's parents and say Beryl will be staying late most days and if Alan would like to ride home with us at that time, the ride is available. Just a reminder, I expect Alan to be waiting for us when we arrive and depart; I prefer not to have to text or call. I'd email parents and Alan, copying Beryl.
Lots of answers saying he should take the bus. It's generous and kind of you to offer transportation, as a single Mom who got few favors, Thank You. It Helps.
posted by theora55 at 2:16 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing nobody offered you gas $ or has acknowledged that it's a massive favor because it's a massive pain. I might get a bit cranky with the kid's parents and say Beryl will be staying late most days and if Alan would like to ride home with us at that time, the ride is available. Just a reminder, I expect Alan to be waiting for us when we arrive and depart; I prefer not to have to text or call. I'd email parents and Alan, copying Beryl.
Lots of answers saying he should take the bus. It's generous and kind of you to offer transportation, as a single Mom who got few favors, Thank You. It Helps.
posted by theora55 at 2:16 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
> In response to other questions/suggestions: I don't know anything about Alan's home life and I'm not really sure how or who to ask about it. Should I talk to parents or to him?
I give rides to kids all the freaking time but only if I'm confident their families know about it; it's not worth the risk to me, if something goes wrong. In your situation I would tell Alan "Hey, I need to get in touch with your folks to make sure we have each other's contact information, who can I talk to?" And then because I hate phones I would try to make it a texting conversation. "Hi, this is The corpse in the library, I'm so-and-so's mom, just wanted to make sure you have my number in case you need to reach me on a day when I'm giving Alan a ride to school."
This isn't foolproof -- maybe there will be language barriers -- but it's a good place to start.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:25 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
I give rides to kids all the freaking time but only if I'm confident their families know about it; it's not worth the risk to me, if something goes wrong. In your situation I would tell Alan "Hey, I need to get in touch with your folks to make sure we have each other's contact information, who can I talk to?" And then because I hate phones I would try to make it a texting conversation. "Hi, this is The corpse in the library, I'm so-and-so's mom, just wanted to make sure you have my number in case you need to reach me on a day when I'm giving Alan a ride to school."
This isn't foolproof -- maybe there will be language barriers -- but it's a good place to start.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:25 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
I would agree to pick him up in the morning (if it's convenient for you) on the contingency that he's outside waiting. Afternoons: he can get another ride or join some clubs himself/go to library.
posted by loveandhappiness at 2:43 PM on September 6, 2018
posted by loveandhappiness at 2:43 PM on September 6, 2018
I don't know what you should do, but the current status quo is obviously not OK. I think it a conversation would be good. Ask, would he mind waiting? He surely understands you aren't going to come just for him.
But I too grew up in a family where my parents worked late hours and I was expected to beg, borrow or steal rides home. I hated asking it, and I was so grateful because if I didn't find a ride I literally would have to wait at school for about six hours for a grumpy/exhausted parent to get me. (I did not make the other parents wait, though and tried to be *extra good*.) I'm 40, and I still think about some of those families who were so kind to go out of their way for me, especially now that I am a parent myself. Not sure if this is Alan's situation though.
So at the very least, I would talk to him, tell him that you won't call or text anymore or you will leave, and that he will have to stay late sometimes in as nice as possible tone as possible.
posted by heavenknows at 2:44 PM on September 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
But I too grew up in a family where my parents worked late hours and I was expected to beg, borrow or steal rides home. I hated asking it, and I was so grateful because if I didn't find a ride I literally would have to wait at school for about six hours for a grumpy/exhausted parent to get me. (I did not make the other parents wait, though and tried to be *extra good*.) I'm 40, and I still think about some of those families who were so kind to go out of their way for me, especially now that I am a parent myself. Not sure if this is Alan's situation though.
So at the very least, I would talk to him, tell him that you won't call or text anymore or you will leave, and that he will have to stay late sometimes in as nice as possible tone as possible.
posted by heavenknows at 2:44 PM on September 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
Also coming back to say that sometimes I got rides from parents who clearly did NOT want to help and it was so awkward and terrible (i.e., groans, "are you sure your mother can't get you? where's your dad? are you sure the bus doesn't go there? is there anyone else you can ask? what do you usually do? that's just really far, but OK,") and this was just so much worse than if they just said "no." I remember crying after one of those rides, and feeling awkward around my friend.
This does NOT sound like you at all, but I think it's better to just say no than keep doing it if you feel really resentful about it (which you are entitled to feel.)
posted by heavenknows at 3:10 PM on September 6, 2018 [10 favorites]
This does NOT sound like you at all, but I think it's better to just say no than keep doing it if you feel really resentful about it (which you are entitled to feel.)
posted by heavenknows at 3:10 PM on September 6, 2018 [10 favorites]
If you really want to continue to give Alan rides, what I would say is "hey, I just wanted to check in and let you know I'm happy to give Alan a ride to/from school when I take Beryl. I'll be here around blah time in the morning, and will be picking her up at (whenever you pick her up each day, depending on after-school activities.)" And then hopefully they are grateful and say thank you, he'll be ready, etc. Lots of kids hang around after school - this shouldn't be a huge deal, and if it is, too bad for Alan.
Then when you get a job, you call them and say "I got a job! So I can't keep driving them every day" and then hopefully you can all work something out. One of the reasons you agree to do stuff like this is so that when you need someone to take your kid home, someone will. I don't want to take my kid and his three friends to the goddamn trampoline place but you better believe I'm happy when someone reciprocates!
Re: the mornings - here in the NJ burbs where I live, the car pulls up to the house, whoever is sitting by the window yells "JANE IS HERE" and the kid puts his jacket on, grabs his backpack and goes out the door. I would not expect the kid to be sitting outside when you arrive, nor would I text him to let him know I was there. You might live in a city, where people live in apartments and there's no parking and then your situation is different.
posted by lyssabee at 3:39 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Then when you get a job, you call them and say "I got a job! So I can't keep driving them every day" and then hopefully you can all work something out. One of the reasons you agree to do stuff like this is so that when you need someone to take your kid home, someone will. I don't want to take my kid and his three friends to the goddamn trampoline place but you better believe I'm happy when someone reciprocates!
Re: the mornings - here in the NJ burbs where I live, the car pulls up to the house, whoever is sitting by the window yells "JANE IS HERE" and the kid puts his jacket on, grabs his backpack and goes out the door. I would not expect the kid to be sitting outside when you arrive, nor would I text him to let him know I was there. You might live in a city, where people live in apartments and there's no parking and then your situation is different.
posted by lyssabee at 3:39 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Others have said wise things, but some other things to throw in the mix:
- Is it possible for Alan's parents to drop him off at a location that makes it easier for you to get him? For example, if he's in another community, can they take him to the Starbucks right by the highway for you to pick him up? A half hour out of your way seems like a lot, so at least they could lessen the load.
- Are they contributing financially to this? I realize that you've already started, but 5 additional hours of driving each week adds up to a lot of gas. Or, since this is a carpool, is it possible for Alan's parents to do some of the driving? It only seems fair. What's your plan for Beryl to get to school after you're working?
- If you're really there at the same time each morning, with no variation, he needs to be outside. If there is more than 10 minutes variation, can Beryl text Alan when you guys are 5 minutes away and then Alan will be outside ready to walk into the car? I fear that this is going to get worse as the weather changes.
- For the afterschool pickups, can you make a deal that Alan needs to tell you by X time if he is going to get a ride with you at the time you've determined based on Beryl's activities? If Alan tells you he needs a ride, he needs to be in Y location at Z time. Otherwise you're leaving.
posted by k8t at 4:15 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
- Is it possible for Alan's parents to drop him off at a location that makes it easier for you to get him? For example, if he's in another community, can they take him to the Starbucks right by the highway for you to pick him up? A half hour out of your way seems like a lot, so at least they could lessen the load.
- Are they contributing financially to this? I realize that you've already started, but 5 additional hours of driving each week adds up to a lot of gas. Or, since this is a carpool, is it possible for Alan's parents to do some of the driving? It only seems fair. What's your plan for Beryl to get to school after you're working?
- If you're really there at the same time each morning, with no variation, he needs to be outside. If there is more than 10 minutes variation, can Beryl text Alan when you guys are 5 minutes away and then Alan will be outside ready to walk into the car? I fear that this is going to get worse as the weather changes.
- For the afterschool pickups, can you make a deal that Alan needs to tell you by X time if he is going to get a ride with you at the time you've determined based on Beryl's activities? If Alan tells you he needs a ride, he needs to be in Y location at Z time. Otherwise you're leaving.
posted by k8t at 4:15 PM on September 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm sensing a lot of sacrificing for the comfort of Alan not needing to hang around, taking public transit (character building) or participating in after school activities.
There certainly doesn't need to be one more girl taught that a guy's comfort comes before her future.
posted by kinoeye at 4:22 PM on September 6, 2018 [16 favorites]
There certainly doesn't need to be one more girl taught that a guy's comfort comes before her future.
posted by kinoeye at 4:22 PM on September 6, 2018 [16 favorites]
^^ I agree with this comment. Any chance Beryl and Alan are secretly a couple? Her considering dropping activities for his convenience is the most worrisome part of this situation.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 5:17 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by pseudostrabismus at 5:17 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is not a school carpool, in any sense of the term. School carpools are (1) shared driving responsibilities among the families in the carpool; (2) arranged by parents; (3) who live a mutually convenient distance from each other; (4) whose children, for the most part, have a mutually convenient shared schedule.
None of those qualities are present in your arrangement. You are basically asking how much of your day must you give up, and how uncomfortable must your daughter feel in participating in her own activities that benefit her, so that you can continue to provide Alan with an extraordinary act of charity. I think the answer depends on how much of your time you are willing to devote to charity (or to this charity, instead of another that you could devote hours of your time to) and how much you are willing to make your own child uncomfortable for the sake of another.
Also, is your charity even needed? What school in America does not either (1) set a reasonable limit on how far students must walk to school from their home (usually a mile, or 1.5 miles, or a 20- to 30-minute walk), or (2) provide free transportation (school buses or passes to public transportation) for students who live outside that limit?
Finally, along with the extraordinary extent that you are willing to help Alan out for nothing in return, I find it extraordinary that you are doing all of this without ever talking to his parents. At the very least, you need to introduce yourself to Alan and make sure it's okay with his parent(s) that you're driving him.
That said, when I'm driving one of my many, many carpools, I have no problem getting out of my car, or sending one child in the carpool out of the car, to knock on the door of the child I'm picking up. Nor, on those days, do I mind driving a little out of the way to that kid's house. But both are because I know my child benefits from when it's someone else's turn to drive and she's still upstairs brushing her teeth, and those days I don't have to drive at all. That's what's missing from your arrangement.
posted by hhc5 at 5:27 PM on September 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
None of those qualities are present in your arrangement. You are basically asking how much of your day must you give up, and how uncomfortable must your daughter feel in participating in her own activities that benefit her, so that you can continue to provide Alan with an extraordinary act of charity. I think the answer depends on how much of your time you are willing to devote to charity (or to this charity, instead of another that you could devote hours of your time to) and how much you are willing to make your own child uncomfortable for the sake of another.
Also, is your charity even needed? What school in America does not either (1) set a reasonable limit on how far students must walk to school from their home (usually a mile, or 1.5 miles, or a 20- to 30-minute walk), or (2) provide free transportation (school buses or passes to public transportation) for students who live outside that limit?
Finally, along with the extraordinary extent that you are willing to help Alan out for nothing in return, I find it extraordinary that you are doing all of this without ever talking to his parents. At the very least, you need to introduce yourself to Alan and make sure it's okay with his parent(s) that you're driving him.
That said, when I'm driving one of my many, many carpools, I have no problem getting out of my car, or sending one child in the carpool out of the car, to knock on the door of the child I'm picking up. Nor, on those days, do I mind driving a little out of the way to that kid's house. But both are because I know my child benefits from when it's someone else's turn to drive and she's still upstairs brushing her teeth, and those days I don't have to drive at all. That's what's missing from your arrangement.
posted by hhc5 at 5:27 PM on September 6, 2018 [5 favorites]
You are basically asking how much of your day must you give up, and how uncomfortable must your daughter feel in participating in her own activities that benefit her, so that you can continue to provide Alan with an extraordinary act of charity
There seems to be a lot of concern about saving Alan time here, last I checked schools assigned homework which needs to be done sometime, if Alan is waiting around or riding the bus he can work on homework. But it's not up to you and Beryl to figure out every minute of his day for him.
posted by yohko at 5:43 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
There seems to be a lot of concern about saving Alan time here, last I checked schools assigned homework which needs to be done sometime, if Alan is waiting around or riding the bus he can work on homework. But it's not up to you and Beryl to figure out every minute of his day for him.
posted by yohko at 5:43 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
We have been doing this for about a week and a half, and in honesty, I am somewhat frustrated with the situation already
I just kind of feel like this is a factor that's largely been ignored in this discussion. You've done what, seven days worth of trips?
Some of the pickup issues strike me as teething problems. Being clear with him about expectations. He may have been getting lifts prior from people who preferred to message him from the driveway or as they left their homes.
The thing with your daughter's activities is a bigger problem. He can either wait or go back to however he was getting home the *rest* of his school life. Again, you're still at the teething stages of this arrangement. There is nothing at all preventing you from dropping at him at school and not the pickup. I had similar arrangements when I was at school where we'd get dropped off but get the bus home due to my parents' work schedules or whatever.
posted by Jilder at 6:24 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
I just kind of feel like this is a factor that's largely been ignored in this discussion. You've done what, seven days worth of trips?
Some of the pickup issues strike me as teething problems. Being clear with him about expectations. He may have been getting lifts prior from people who preferred to message him from the driveway or as they left their homes.
The thing with your daughter's activities is a bigger problem. He can either wait or go back to however he was getting home the *rest* of his school life. Again, you're still at the teething stages of this arrangement. There is nothing at all preventing you from dropping at him at school and not the pickup. I had similar arrangements when I was at school where we'd get dropped off but get the bus home due to my parents' work schedules or whatever.
posted by Jilder at 6:24 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
taking public transit (character building)
As someone who took public transit one hour in the morning and 1.5 hours in the evening, having to wait outside in all sorts of crappy weather, going hungry in the evening because I couldn't eat til I got home (I left pretty late because of after-school activities), having to deal with all kinds of Bus Weirdos as a twelve-year-old girl, and the like, allow me to say a hearty: Bullshit.
What school in America does not either (1) set a reasonable limit on how far students must walk to school from their home (usually a mile, or 1.5 miles, or a 20- to 30-minute walk), or (2) provide free transportation (school buses or passes to public transportation) for students who live outside that limit?
PLENTY OF SCHOOLS
corb, I totally get your concern that Beryl seems to feel she needs to sacrifice her activities for Alan's convenience, and I think you are quite right to want to nip such thoughts in the bud. I also don't think you have a moral obligation to spend all your time ferrying kids around, and requiring Alan to be timely (and offering him a ride home only at the time you're picking up Beryl) is perfectly appropriate. But, to the extent you can help this kid out, you are doing a kindness in your community that is all too rare these days. Let's face it, this is a kid whose parents can't even be bothered to speak with the person giving their kid a ride to school on a regular basis to make sure they're not openly psycho--the odds are good that his family situation is not quite right in some way. As someone who had to depend a lot on the kindness of random adults to make up for inadequate parenting, I tell you it is greatly appreciated.
(Sometimes, on this site, you can really tell people's backgrounds, I tell you what.)
posted by praemunire at 6:30 PM on September 6, 2018 [25 favorites]
As someone who took public transit one hour in the morning and 1.5 hours in the evening, having to wait outside in all sorts of crappy weather, going hungry in the evening because I couldn't eat til I got home (I left pretty late because of after-school activities), having to deal with all kinds of Bus Weirdos as a twelve-year-old girl, and the like, allow me to say a hearty: Bullshit.
What school in America does not either (1) set a reasonable limit on how far students must walk to school from their home (usually a mile, or 1.5 miles, or a 20- to 30-minute walk), or (2) provide free transportation (school buses or passes to public transportation) for students who live outside that limit?
PLENTY OF SCHOOLS
corb, I totally get your concern that Beryl seems to feel she needs to sacrifice her activities for Alan's convenience, and I think you are quite right to want to nip such thoughts in the bud. I also don't think you have a moral obligation to spend all your time ferrying kids around, and requiring Alan to be timely (and offering him a ride home only at the time you're picking up Beryl) is perfectly appropriate. But, to the extent you can help this kid out, you are doing a kindness in your community that is all too rare these days. Let's face it, this is a kid whose parents can't even be bothered to speak with the person giving their kid a ride to school on a regular basis to make sure they're not openly psycho--the odds are good that his family situation is not quite right in some way. As someone who had to depend a lot on the kindness of random adults to make up for inadequate parenting, I tell you it is greatly appreciated.
(Sometimes, on this site, you can really tell people's backgrounds, I tell you what.)
posted by praemunire at 6:30 PM on September 6, 2018 [25 favorites]
I grew up in Louisiana high school 2000 ish and school bus rides (no public transit) were set up with a max 2.5 hour commute. With a first pick up to last drop off design, so there were kids getting up at 4am for pick up by 5am and not getting home until 6pm at night which would be rough on anyone. So, waiting for her activities to end may not be that bad of a compromise and may still get him home eailier. These were places that were semi rural so not alot of traffic but definitely alot of distance.
There may also be issues of bullying on his commute.
Likely Beryl knows what's going on with him. Kids talk to eachother and she can likely tell you what Alan thinks of his parents and the school bus and stuff. Ask.
Don't go to far out of your way and definitely set boundaries
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:48 PM on September 6, 2018
There may also be issues of bullying on his commute.
Likely Beryl knows what's going on with him. Kids talk to eachother and she can likely tell you what Alan thinks of his parents and the school bus and stuff. Ask.
Don't go to far out of your way and definitely set boundaries
posted by AlexiaSky at 7:48 PM on September 6, 2018
If your daughter is FOR ANY REASON considering sacrificing her activities to accommodate a boy, you need to tell her that if she does, that is an AUTOMATIC 100% Alan never rides with you again, EVER.
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 8:34 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 8:34 PM on September 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
If your daughter is FOR ANY REASON considering sacrificing her activities to accommodate a boy, you need to tell her that if she does, that is an AUTOMATIC 100% Alan never rides with you again, EVER.
That seems like it's just substituting ways of prioritizing Alan. If it were me, I'd talk more explicitly about why she's feeling like she needs to prioritize him at all and walk through some decision-making skills about relative worth of her activities vs. Alan getting a door-to-door ride for free vs. Alan needing to find something to do for a few hours vs. her not getting to do after-school activities. She's old enough that I'd help her develop the skills to think these things through, rather than issue ultimatums. She may still need an adult, at the end, to make a final call, but she should be looped into the decision-making process. Unilaterally deciding anything for her in an attempt to help her understand why her needs are important seems to undercut the message.
posted by lazuli at 8:42 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
That seems like it's just substituting ways of prioritizing Alan. If it were me, I'd talk more explicitly about why she's feeling like she needs to prioritize him at all and walk through some decision-making skills about relative worth of her activities vs. Alan getting a door-to-door ride for free vs. Alan needing to find something to do for a few hours vs. her not getting to do after-school activities. She's old enough that I'd help her develop the skills to think these things through, rather than issue ultimatums. She may still need an adult, at the end, to make a final call, but she should be looped into the decision-making process. Unilaterally deciding anything for her in an attempt to help her understand why her needs are important seems to undercut the message.
posted by lazuli at 8:42 PM on September 6, 2018 [6 favorites]
When I gave rides to other children or let my child ride with another parent, the main concern was reliability.
Did my child make it to school (or another activity) on time? If the driver had a problem (car trouble, illness, etc.), was enough lead time given so that an alternative could be put in place without my child being late?
And of course, where is my child? Is my child safe with an adult, or panicking and making irresponsible decisions because she missed her ride?
Of course, this was all arranged by the adults, who had the responsibility for seeing that the child was out the door when I showed up in their driveway, or vice versa.
At no time was it said that the rides would be offered at times other than those normally made to deliver the driver's own child. This was a favor, not a taxi service, and usually a form of quid pro quo among the parents for band practice or Scouts or other programs.
If the parents are not the ones working on Alan's transportation together, I'm having all kinds of liability issues with it. And children can make some weird decisions about the "right" way to handle it if they are late for an appointment.
I had two discussions in two weeks with two children (mine) about not riding with strangers after missing their rides to or from school. That got old, fast. And that was just a couple of miles from home.
If Alan wants a ride, he needs to be reliable. He needs to be watching at the window or at the door and ready to roll when you show up. Or he needs to give you lead time about why he's cancelling. I wouldn't leave without him just because he's late (he's a child) but I would inform his parents that I can't drop my own child off late, given that she might have before-school activities of her own. One more chance, then that's his choice. Hmm... instilling some responsibility, there.
The after-school schedule is a non-starter. Since Beryl may or may not have after-school activities, which can change without notice, then Alan needs to find a reliable ride source pronto. He's not going to remember her schedule. He won't know if she is out sick, or he might forget and miss his alternative ride if you don't intend to make a special trip to pick him up. Showing up -- maybe -- when Beryl is ready to go home isn't going to work.
I'd be a nervous wreck if I was responsible for a child who wasn't where he was supposed to be, on my watch.
posted by TrishaU at 11:18 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Did my child make it to school (or another activity) on time? If the driver had a problem (car trouble, illness, etc.), was enough lead time given so that an alternative could be put in place without my child being late?
And of course, where is my child? Is my child safe with an adult, or panicking and making irresponsible decisions because she missed her ride?
Of course, this was all arranged by the adults, who had the responsibility for seeing that the child was out the door when I showed up in their driveway, or vice versa.
At no time was it said that the rides would be offered at times other than those normally made to deliver the driver's own child. This was a favor, not a taxi service, and usually a form of quid pro quo among the parents for band practice or Scouts or other programs.
If the parents are not the ones working on Alan's transportation together, I'm having all kinds of liability issues with it. And children can make some weird decisions about the "right" way to handle it if they are late for an appointment.
I had two discussions in two weeks with two children (mine) about not riding with strangers after missing their rides to or from school. That got old, fast. And that was just a couple of miles from home.
If Alan wants a ride, he needs to be reliable. He needs to be watching at the window or at the door and ready to roll when you show up. Or he needs to give you lead time about why he's cancelling. I wouldn't leave without him just because he's late (he's a child) but I would inform his parents that I can't drop my own child off late, given that she might have before-school activities of her own. One more chance, then that's his choice. Hmm... instilling some responsibility, there.
The after-school schedule is a non-starter. Since Beryl may or may not have after-school activities, which can change without notice, then Alan needs to find a reliable ride source pronto. He's not going to remember her schedule. He won't know if she is out sick, or he might forget and miss his alternative ride if you don't intend to make a special trip to pick him up. Showing up -- maybe -- when Beryl is ready to go home isn't going to work.
I'd be a nervous wreck if I was responsible for a child who wasn't where he was supposed to be, on my watch.
posted by TrishaU at 11:18 PM on September 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Speaking as a parent to high school kids, I would not talk to the parents to "find out" what his home life is like. Just because you're doing him a favor by giving him rides doesn't make you a social worker. Of course if you suspect abuse or neglect that's one thing. But not having a ride? Is that really a red flag for a high school kid if his parents expect him to take the 1.5 hour bus that is provided? Most rural kids do this and have many other responsibilities too. I DO think you should help him if you can but don't imply that this alone means something is "wrong." If he's one of the many kids who has a working single mother, parents who work at night and need to sleep in the day, or whatever it is that gives him this disadvantage over kids with easier driving situations, it's kind of insulting to pry as if their expecting their kid to be more independent at a slightly younger age is of concern to a middle class parent. On the other hand it's perfectly acceptable to find their email or text (or phone) and say "I've been driving Alan for a while, have been meaning to introduce myself. Unfortunately I'm going to have some changes in our schedule and it'll be impossible to do this routine soon," and explain. This gives them the opportunity to say hello and thanks, or tell you to stop.
posted by nantucket at 6:47 AM on September 7, 2018
posted by nantucket at 6:47 AM on September 7, 2018
If you feel like driving him would be a kindness that you're willing to do, then do it. You're better able to assess his situation and yours than anyone on the Internet. Not everything worth doing is fair to all parties, and conversely not everything that would be a nice thing in theory is worth doing in practice.
Personally, I have known lots of kids who get almost no parenting, emotionally or materially. Call it neglectful if you want, but it is very common when you're talking single parents in tenuous employment and housing situations, which is literally millions of them. 1 in 11 kids lives in poverty, 1 in 5 in California, the most populous state. What do you think makes sense?
posted by wnissen at 10:00 AM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Personally, I have known lots of kids who get almost no parenting, emotionally or materially. Call it neglectful if you want, but it is very common when you're talking single parents in tenuous employment and housing situations, which is literally millions of them. 1 in 11 kids lives in poverty, 1 in 5 in California, the most populous state. What do you think makes sense?
posted by wnissen at 10:00 AM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
it's kind of insulting to pry as if their expecting their kid to be more independent at a slightly younger age is of concern to a middle class parent
I didn't recommend talking to the parents (for one, I don't think that would necessarily be useful if there were problems), but no fourteen-year-old (I assume) should be expected to have to decide on his own whether an adult offering him a ride to somewhere he has to be every weekday is a safe person to be around. There may or may not be a good reason for it, but that is a significant omission in parenting. I'm not one of these people who sees stranger danger around every corner, but if the adult in question were an abuser, that'd be a textbook setup for grooming--not just that the parent doesn't know the adult, but that the parent has demonstrated to the adult that they aren't paying attention to who the kid is with, and when.
posted by praemunire at 3:20 PM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
I didn't recommend talking to the parents (for one, I don't think that would necessarily be useful if there were problems), but no fourteen-year-old (I assume) should be expected to have to decide on his own whether an adult offering him a ride to somewhere he has to be every weekday is a safe person to be around. There may or may not be a good reason for it, but that is a significant omission in parenting. I'm not one of these people who sees stranger danger around every corner, but if the adult in question were an abuser, that'd be a textbook setup for grooming--not just that the parent doesn't know the adult, but that the parent has demonstrated to the adult that they aren't paying attention to who the kid is with, and when.
posted by praemunire at 3:20 PM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
You seem to be getting advice split between people who are identfying, maybe subconsciously, with Alan's parents, and people who are identifying with Alan. In my experience, well-off liberals tend to assume that any child's parents are well-intentioned and will do the right thing when contacted. Also in my experience, children of neglectful/abusive parents get further alienated by friends' parents operating under the previous assumption.
Trust your gut. None of us can tell you whether Alan really needs some intervention or if he's exploiting your kindness. You're smart enough to make those sorts of decisions on your own.
posted by lazuli at 8:32 PM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Trust your gut. None of us can tell you whether Alan really needs some intervention or if he's exploiting your kindness. You're smart enough to make those sorts of decisions on your own.
posted by lazuli at 8:32 PM on September 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Just wanted to follow up: I made it clear that I would pick him up after Beryl’s activities, and he found another carpool, which I feel somewhat bad about, but seems a not-terrible outcome. Thanks everyone for helping out!
posted by corb at 9:28 PM on October 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:28 PM on October 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Don't say anything that can be debated. They know it's hard or you wouldn't have gotten asked. They could theoretically try something like "but oh no, now you have to" and you will just have to say no, I do not have to, I cannot do it, we cannot make it work. I'm sorry to have falsely raised your hopes that I was the solution.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:07 PM on September 6, 2018 [20 favorites]