Really?! Full/double bed come across as "wanting to be single"?
August 28, 2018 4:41 AM Subscribe
I am shopping for a new bed. Some of my friends told me that a full/double bed sends signals that I want to be single and sleep comfortably alone. What?! Is this a real thing?
I just moved to NYC. I need to buy a bed and a mattress.
I am 33F, queer, single. I've slept on a full/double for over a decade (including through two relationships) and all my bed linens are in that size, so I'm inclined to buy another full size bed.
My place isn't very big, I am not actively dating or intensely lookng for a relationship but I also haven't sworn it off. I also thought that if I do enter a relationship and want to regularly share a bed with another human, I'd probably shop for a new one together with that person, rather than assuming they'd enjoy sleeping on the empty half of a bed I bought based on my own preference. A lot of my friends who are in happy marriages sleep on full/double beds.
But a bunch of my friends also kept telling me that a full bed is going to completely kill my game, and that anyone who sees it will think I don't want a relationship. Is this a real thing? It's never crossed my mind when I see someone else's full bed. And I also feel like anyone who writes me off for something like the size of my bed is probably not going to get along that well with me.
But all of that said-- seriously, though, is this a real thing and I just missed the memo? Is this something everyone knows? Did you know about this? I just want a bigger sample pool!
I just moved to NYC. I need to buy a bed and a mattress.
I am 33F, queer, single. I've slept on a full/double for over a decade (including through two relationships) and all my bed linens are in that size, so I'm inclined to buy another full size bed.
My place isn't very big, I am not actively dating or intensely lookng for a relationship but I also haven't sworn it off. I also thought that if I do enter a relationship and want to regularly share a bed with another human, I'd probably shop for a new one together with that person, rather than assuming they'd enjoy sleeping on the empty half of a bed I bought based on my own preference. A lot of my friends who are in happy marriages sleep on full/double beds.
But a bunch of my friends also kept telling me that a full bed is going to completely kill my game, and that anyone who sees it will think I don't want a relationship. Is this a real thing? It's never crossed my mind when I see someone else's full bed. And I also feel like anyone who writes me off for something like the size of my bed is probably not going to get along that well with me.
But all of that said-- seriously, though, is this a real thing and I just missed the memo? Is this something everyone knows? Did you know about this? I just want a bigger sample pool!
Best answer: I do not even follow the reasoning. If anything, wouldn't a double bed signify - I mean, signify over the simple "I like big beds and I cannot lie" - that you want someone else to join you in it and hence hint towards a relationship?
posted by humuhumu at 4:47 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by humuhumu at 4:47 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Best answer: That is not a thing. Please do not buy furniture for some kind of imagined future. Get the bed that you want now. Enjoy your new mattress!
posted by sockermom at 4:52 AM on August 28, 2018 [38 favorites]
posted by sockermom at 4:52 AM on August 28, 2018 [38 favorites]
The size of your bed could be signalling any of the following things: how big you like your bed to be, how much room you had when choosing/purchasing the bed, how much money you had to spend on a bed when you purchased the bed, the preferences or financial constraints of someone else who bought the bed (if it's a furnished rental). I have no idea how it's supposed to signal what your friends are saying here.
To me, being single and having a large bed shows that a) you like to sleep in a large bed, have the room for one and/or could afford one when you were buying, and b) that you have a bed which can accommodate another person if sleeping over or sexytimes is called for. Which I generally see as a plus for anyone you might want to date.
To flip this round, what kind of a bed is a person who's single and does actively want to date supposed to have, according to your friends? I can't think of a good answer for this myself - to me, a twin bed suggests either you don't have the space/money for a bigger bed, or you prefer to sleep in a smaller space, rather than that you're single but ready for a relationship. It also makes it harder to accommodate people you might want to date if they sleep over.
In summary, I have no idea what your friends are trying to imply, can't really understand their reasoning and suggest you totally disregard this feedback and file it under "people are weird".
posted by terretu at 5:03 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
To me, being single and having a large bed shows that a) you like to sleep in a large bed, have the room for one and/or could afford one when you were buying, and b) that you have a bed which can accommodate another person if sleeping over or sexytimes is called for. Which I generally see as a plus for anyone you might want to date.
To flip this round, what kind of a bed is a person who's single and does actively want to date supposed to have, according to your friends? I can't think of a good answer for this myself - to me, a twin bed suggests either you don't have the space/money for a bigger bed, or you prefer to sleep in a smaller space, rather than that you're single but ready for a relationship. It also makes it harder to accommodate people you might want to date if they sleep over.
In summary, I have no idea what your friends are trying to imply, can't really understand their reasoning and suggest you totally disregard this feedback and file it under "people are weird".
posted by terretu at 5:03 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
I don't think it sends a signal, but it definitely isn't practical if you want to date. While a double bed wouldn't be some sort of deal breaker, it would definitely make me far less inclined to spend the night. It's just not big enough for two people to sleep comfortably. If you want someone to want to spend the night, you need to have space for them, which means having a queen.
posted by fso at 5:04 AM on August 28, 2018 [24 favorites]
posted by fso at 5:04 AM on August 28, 2018 [24 favorites]
When I was a young person, a full bed was the "I am living on my own and plan to start sleeping with people regularly instead of living in the dorm or at home, yes relationship pls" bed. Your friends, who seem to think that you need a bigger and more expensive bed, have been corrupted by Big Mattress.
The only reason I could see for pre-emptively buying a bigger bed would be if you yourself already knew that you could not sleep comfortably with another person in a full bed, and you obviously know that a full is fine.
Also also - I myself have a queen bed because I got one free, and I often have trouble spotting whether someone has a full or a queen. If your friends mean that you should pony up for a king just on general principles, well, they should give you the extra hundreds of dollars.
posted by Frowner at 5:06 AM on August 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
The only reason I could see for pre-emptively buying a bigger bed would be if you yourself already knew that you could not sleep comfortably with another person in a full bed, and you obviously know that a full is fine.
Also also - I myself have a queen bed because I got one free, and I often have trouble spotting whether someone has a full or a queen. If your friends mean that you should pony up for a king just on general principles, well, they should give you the extra hundreds of dollars.
posted by Frowner at 5:06 AM on August 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Also queer, in my 30s, living in a large city. Not a thing. My partner and I just bought our first queen bed after ten years of being together. The more I think about it, the weirder this seems. Are your friends perhaps just f-ing with you, razzing you for being single or something?
posted by lieber hair at 5:08 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by lieber hair at 5:08 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I guess you could interpret it to mean that a full bed, as opposed to a queen, means you are not thinking ahead to the possibility of a long-term relationship? It’s not a thing I’ve heard of, though I haven’t been single in years (and, as a lady who dated men, the advice we hear is “date someone who *has a bed*”).
I would be surprised if anyone in NYC who isn’t wealthy, or desperately hoping to appear that way, would fault you for wanting the size of bed that fits in the space you have.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:10 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
I would be surprised if anyone in NYC who isn’t wealthy, or desperately hoping to appear that way, would fault you for wanting the size of bed that fits in the space you have.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:10 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
To your friends, because of mattress-size inflation (not a pun,) a full bed seems like a twin bed used to. But no, this still isn't a thing.
posted by nantucket at 5:17 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by nantucket at 5:17 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Also, frankly, anyone in their thirties who is looking for secret signals from your mattress rather than either evaluating the rest of the relationship or using their words ("Can we sleep over at my place? For [reasons] I really need to sleep in a bigger bed such as my own") is really not someone you want to date. If you meet The One and move in together, either The One will have The Mattress or you can get another one - my facebook, at least, is always full of people in my extended circle with near-new mattresses that they are giving away or selling for cheap, so it isn't even that you'd absolutely have to pony up for a new one.
Too, as you point out, a "full" bed used to be known as a double bed. Folks should buy the mattresses that they want , whether that's a full or a custom extra large king, but there really has been a change in mattress norms in the last twenty years. A double bed used to be the default bed for two.
posted by Frowner at 5:18 AM on August 28, 2018 [26 favorites]
Too, as you point out, a "full" bed used to be known as a double bed. Folks should buy the mattresses that they want , whether that's a full or a custom extra large king, but there really has been a change in mattress norms in the last twenty years. A double bed used to be the default bed for two.
posted by Frowner at 5:18 AM on August 28, 2018 [26 favorites]
It's fine. It may potentially mean that someone who needs more room to sleep comfortably is going to be lukewarm on sleeping at your place on the regular, but that's an issue you can and are willing to address if it comes up, so you're good. I don't think anyone is going to get a first look at your bedroom, think "COMMITMENT ISSUES!!!!" and flee shrieking into the night. Especially in an NYC apartment, not generally known for being extremely roomy!
(Source: I like a lot of room when I sleep, would generally not like to downsize from a queen at the smallest ever again, but even I, in an NYC apartment, would think really seriously about a double. And then I'd remember that I have three cats, so I'd stick with the queen. But you don't mention imperious furry monsters wanting to share your bed so I assume that's not a factor.)
posted by Stacey at 5:28 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
(Source: I like a lot of room when I sleep, would generally not like to downsize from a queen at the smallest ever again, but even I, in an NYC apartment, would think really seriously about a double. And then I'd remember that I have three cats, so I'd stick with the queen. But you don't mention imperious furry monsters wanting to share your bed so I assume that's not a factor.)
posted by Stacey at 5:28 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
By the time someone is in a position to evaluate your bed choice, they've already made some kind of decision based on much more important factors about you. Those friends are nuts.
posted by zadcat at 5:44 AM on August 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by zadcat at 5:44 AM on August 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
I don't think it sends a signal, but it definitely isn't practical if you want to date.
Yeah, I think you should get exactly whatever bed you want (as a fellow full-bed sleeper) but realize that smaller beds make sharing them with all sizes/types of people a little more logistically complicated which means, as a few other people have noted, it might limit options a little bit. In NYC especially a full bed seems normal because apartments are small. If you lived in a big country farmhouse and still had a full bed, I might think you weren't actively dating (and nothing wrong with that!)
posted by jessamyn at 5:52 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I think you should get exactly whatever bed you want (as a fellow full-bed sleeper) but realize that smaller beds make sharing them with all sizes/types of people a little more logistically complicated which means, as a few other people have noted, it might limit options a little bit. In NYC especially a full bed seems normal because apartments are small. If you lived in a big country farmhouse and still had a full bed, I might think you weren't actively dating (and nothing wrong with that!)
posted by jessamyn at 5:52 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm a straight guy who has dated women for several decades, so maybe the thought process is different for straight guys - but... I have never gone home with a person, looked at their bed, and thought "oh, based on the size of their bed, they are looking for / not looking for a relationship."
The clues I usually go by are when a woman says "I am / am not looking for a relationship right now."
That said, I'm not a small person. If things turn into a relationship then anything smaller than a queen bed is not practical for overnights. Currently I own a king-sized bed and my partner has a queen-sized bed, and nine times out of ten she arranges it such that she gets to sleep in my bed because she enjoys the room.
posted by jzb at 5:59 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
The clues I usually go by are when a woman says "I am / am not looking for a relationship right now."
That said, I'm not a small person. If things turn into a relationship then anything smaller than a queen bed is not practical for overnights. Currently I own a king-sized bed and my partner has a queen-sized bed, and nine times out of ten she arranges it such that she gets to sleep in my bed because she enjoys the room.
posted by jzb at 5:59 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
A double bed used to be the default bed for two.
Which probably worked well when adults were, on average, shorter and lighter.
Practically speaking, as a lady who sometimes dates tall-ish dudes, my double bed made my home our backup choice for sleepovers. It would be easier on future relationships if my home was a bit more accommodating for two, so there's that. For that reason among many others, I'm considering shoehorning a queen-sized bed into my condo bedroom.
posted by blerghamot at 6:04 AM on August 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Which probably worked well when adults were, on average, shorter and lighter.
Practically speaking, as a lady who sometimes dates tall-ish dudes, my double bed made my home our backup choice for sleepovers. It would be easier on future relationships if my home was a bit more accommodating for two, so there's that. For that reason among many others, I'm considering shoehorning a queen-sized bed into my condo bedroom.
posted by blerghamot at 6:04 AM on August 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
I can see this being a thing in, say, Texas, where there's nothing but space and rents are relatively cheap. In NYC? Get the bed that fits in your place.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 6:04 AM on August 28, 2018
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 6:04 AM on August 28, 2018
No, this is insane and I can't believe full grown adults are worrying about things like this. When you are in your 30's you send signals that you want to date by dating. Send signals that you want to be single by not dating. Use your words, not secret mattress codes. Fwiw, I have slept on a single bed for the last 3 years. It has not negatively affected my romantic life in any way and I have enough space in my bedroom for other furniture. It's lovely.
posted by windykites at 6:05 AM on August 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by windykites at 6:05 AM on August 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
I have not heard this, but I have heard queen-sized beds being associated to proper adulting. I remember friends upgrading their mattresses to queen upon moving out on their own, like it's a rite of passage. Like, a full-size bed is for when you've just started out, are young and fresh out of college, have a small bedroom and potentially live with roommates while a queen is for when you've got a proper apartment all on your own.
posted by vivzan at 6:09 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by vivzan at 6:09 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
1) That sounds like a really creepy line of thinking.
2) The idea of having enough space for a queen mattress in NYC is pretty laughable to me, unless you want to fill your whole entire room with a bed, which I find totally claustrophobic and grim-looking.
3) Since when does a full mattress not fit 2 people?
4) What is all this madness?
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 6:11 AM on August 28, 2018 [19 favorites]
2) The idea of having enough space for a queen mattress in NYC is pretty laughable to me, unless you want to fill your whole entire room with a bed, which I find totally claustrophobic and grim-looking.
3) Since when does a full mattress not fit 2 people?
4) What is all this madness?
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 6:11 AM on August 28, 2018 [19 favorites]
What? No. First, it says nothing about your relationship preferences. I got my first bigger-than-twin-size before I was dating anybody, because it was cheap and available and I needed a bed.
Second, if it did, I would judge it to say you want to have a second person in the bed. If I dated someone who had a twin size I'd find it odd and a turnoff. As a data point, I've never dated someone (whose bed I saw) who had a twin size mattress. In my mind, adults who have intimate relationships have beds that can fit those relationships.
Finally, yeah, many of us just like to spread out.
posted by ramenopres at 6:19 AM on August 28, 2018
Second, if it did, I would judge it to say you want to have a second person in the bed. If I dated someone who had a twin size I'd find it odd and a turnoff. As a data point, I've never dated someone (whose bed I saw) who had a twin size mattress. In my mind, adults who have intimate relationships have beds that can fit those relationships.
Finally, yeah, many of us just like to spread out.
posted by ramenopres at 6:19 AM on August 28, 2018
I am baffled by this supposition. It is not a thing. Why do your friends think it is?
posted by freya_lamb at 6:24 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by freya_lamb at 6:24 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Upon further reflection: I think I misunderstood what your friends were saying, actually. But that's because I don't easily see the difference between a full or queen bed. Therefore, my overall stance remains that they are weird and you are fine.
posted by ramenopres at 6:28 AM on August 28, 2018
posted by ramenopres at 6:28 AM on August 28, 2018
This is not something a reasonable person thinks. I can imagine someone maybe thinking that about a twin bed -- although I personally would just think they were minimalist/frugal/space-conscious -- but a full comfortably sleeps two average-sized adults with no problem.
Anecdata: My parents slept in a full for about 30 years. They upgraded to a queen last year and are still gushing about how HUGE it is. Meanwhile, I slept in a king for a couple of years as a single person, and I would keep my king if my bf and I were to split. Bf and I are both small people who could probably get by sharing a twin if we had to.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 6:33 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Anecdata: My parents slept in a full for about 30 years. They upgraded to a queen last year and are still gushing about how HUGE it is. Meanwhile, I slept in a king for a couple of years as a single person, and I would keep my king if my bf and I were to split. Bf and I are both small people who could probably get by sharing a twin if we had to.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 6:33 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
"I often have trouble spotting whether someone has a full or a queen"
Agree. For what it's worth, I am aware of the OP's friends' sentiments, and I'd probably only consider a queen or king if I were single again and buying a bed for that reason. But having said all that, I slept in my now-wife's full bed for a good three years before I realized it wasn't a queen. It was never a problem for us. We even made it through her pregnancy in there. Plenty of space.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:39 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Agree. For what it's worth, I am aware of the OP's friends' sentiments, and I'd probably only consider a queen or king if I were single again and buying a bed for that reason. But having said all that, I slept in my now-wife's full bed for a good three years before I realized it wasn't a queen. It was never a problem for us. We even made it through her pregnancy in there. Plenty of space.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:39 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't think it sends a signal, but it definitely isn't practical if you want to date. While a double bed wouldn't be some sort of deal breaker, it would definitely make me far less inclined to spend the night. It's just not big enough for two people to sleep comfortably.
If this were true, absolutely no one in college would be having sleepovers because everyone has twin beds. I trust that there is ample evidence of sex in college to prove the contrary.
OP: I have never heard of this sentiment before in my life and I've been a) a New Yorker and b) sexually active for about 25+ years now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:59 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
If this were true, absolutely no one in college would be having sleepovers because everyone has twin beds. I trust that there is ample evidence of sex in college to prove the contrary.
OP: I have never heard of this sentiment before in my life and I've been a) a New Yorker and b) sexually active for about 25+ years now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:59 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Not a thing. Never crossed my mind even once, ever. Never heard anyone mention anything like this until today. Get the bed that you want. Besides, there's plenty of space for two in a full bed, unless you hate each other.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:01 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:01 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
How tall are you? How tall are your friends?
I'm just under 6 feet tall, my partner is just under 6'3". A double bed is 6 feet long. A queen is 6 and a half feet long and 6 inches wider. Can you see the issue? When we met, my partner had a double bed which would be fine for a tall man sleeping with a much shorter woman since he could sleep diagonally. For two tall people though, it's really uncomfortable. We generally slept at my place since I had a queen bed and since we started cohabitating, we bought a new queen bed. If he had insisted we stay at his place, there would have been a problem.
I wouldn't say killing your game so much as limiting your options.
posted by TORunner at 7:01 AM on August 28, 2018 [7 favorites]
I'm just under 6 feet tall, my partner is just under 6'3". A double bed is 6 feet long. A queen is 6 and a half feet long and 6 inches wider. Can you see the issue? When we met, my partner had a double bed which would be fine for a tall man sleeping with a much shorter woman since he could sleep diagonally. For two tall people though, it's really uncomfortable. We generally slept at my place since I had a queen bed and since we started cohabitating, we bought a new queen bed. If he had insisted we stay at his place, there would have been a problem.
I wouldn't say killing your game so much as limiting your options.
posted by TORunner at 7:01 AM on August 28, 2018 [7 favorites]
Also, if you decide to get a double, do not get a footboard.
posted by TORunner at 7:03 AM on August 28, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by TORunner at 7:03 AM on August 28, 2018 [11 favorites]
[A full is] just not big enough for two people to sleep comfortably. If you want someone to want to spend the night, you need to have space for them, which means having a queen.
A full is 53 x 75 inches. The mean height for a US male aged 20+ is 69.2 inches. A full 90% of US males aged 20+ are 73 inches or shorter. The number of people that are physically too tall to fit on a full is really, really small (although I concede that for extremely stretched-out sleepers, two inches of extra space might feel a little cramped). (Source, Table 12, p.16)
As for the width of the full, it is plenty for two average-weight folks.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 7:04 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
A full is 53 x 75 inches. The mean height for a US male aged 20+ is 69.2 inches. A full 90% of US males aged 20+ are 73 inches or shorter. The number of people that are physically too tall to fit on a full is really, really small (although I concede that for extremely stretched-out sleepers, two inches of extra space might feel a little cramped). (Source, Table 12, p.16)
As for the width of the full, it is plenty for two average-weight folks.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 7:04 AM on August 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Best answer: This sounds like upselling to me. I got nagged by the bed salesman (who I hated but could not get to go away) that people ONLY get queens these days. ONLY. Guess what I got. And I'm never ever dating again.
That said, I cannot comment on what other people you want to have sex with and have sleep over and how often you plan on doing that. Hell if I know. I don't necessarily think the bed is a guarantee of "Oh god, they don't want to have a real relationship," but depending on who you want to boink, some folks may be unhappy with sleeping over there. I don't know how much dating you plan to do or how much game you wanna get, but unfortunately it sounds reasonable to me that if you plan to keep on having sex in your life on a more than "once in a blue moon" basis, you should probably have a bed that others want to sleep over in. If you only date, I dunno, short folks, this may not be as much of an issue compared to if you only date tall folks.
I really wish I could be all "get the bed that you want" because even I think this is kinda stupid, but if other people's comfort is a priority to you, then...well, some folks will complain or have bad backs or whatever.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:17 AM on August 28, 2018
That said, I cannot comment on what other people you want to have sex with and have sleep over and how often you plan on doing that. Hell if I know. I don't necessarily think the bed is a guarantee of "Oh god, they don't want to have a real relationship," but depending on who you want to boink, some folks may be unhappy with sleeping over there. I don't know how much dating you plan to do or how much game you wanna get, but unfortunately it sounds reasonable to me that if you plan to keep on having sex in your life on a more than "once in a blue moon" basis, you should probably have a bed that others want to sleep over in. If you only date, I dunno, short folks, this may not be as much of an issue compared to if you only date tall folks.
I really wish I could be all "get the bed that you want" because even I think this is kinda stupid, but if other people's comfort is a priority to you, then...well, some folks will complain or have bad backs or whatever.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:17 AM on August 28, 2018
Eh, I live in New York and have a queen and find a full after your twenties a little childish and definitely uncomfortable for two. (I don't like being touched when I sleep, even by people I love.)
So assuming you can afford it, I'd just get the queen and slowly start building a set of new linens. I do see where your friends are coming from.
posted by dame at 7:24 AM on August 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
So assuming you can afford it, I'd just get the queen and slowly start building a set of new linens. I do see where your friends are coming from.
posted by dame at 7:24 AM on August 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
Well, the size of the bed might send a signal to those people who spend their lives looking for those kind of signals. Are those the kind of people you enjoy being around?
posted by John Borrowman at 7:26 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by John Borrowman at 7:26 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Another aspect to consider: Everyone's mattress needs are different, especially as we get older. Like, I need a really firm mattress or I am in actual pain. If you have a soft mattress, I'm going to kiss you goodnight and catch the last train home, even if we're soulmates, and that is not the end of the world. If we get really serious, we will figure something else out. It's nothing I'd throw away a relationship over.
(That's what confuses me about this whole issue - the idea that you would, without further investigation, torpedo a relationship because someone had a mattress you didn't like. Who does that? Also the idea that you'd decline a hook-up because the mattress wasn't right. Also the idea that you wouldn't be grown up enough to say, "Look, I had a great time, let's get together again soon, I'll text you tomorrow, and I sadly need to go home to sleep for [reasons]". I've done that. People have done that at my place.)
It's quite possible that you'll get into a relationship and that person will only be able to sleep comfortably on, eg, a futon on the floor, and you'll have to figure out how you're going to deal with that.
posted by Frowner at 7:40 AM on August 28, 2018 [9 favorites]
(That's what confuses me about this whole issue - the idea that you would, without further investigation, torpedo a relationship because someone had a mattress you didn't like. Who does that? Also the idea that you'd decline a hook-up because the mattress wasn't right. Also the idea that you wouldn't be grown up enough to say, "Look, I had a great time, let's get together again soon, I'll text you tomorrow, and I sadly need to go home to sleep for [reasons]". I've done that. People have done that at my place.)
It's quite possible that you'll get into a relationship and that person will only be able to sleep comfortably on, eg, a futon on the floor, and you'll have to figure out how you're going to deal with that.
posted by Frowner at 7:40 AM on August 28, 2018 [9 favorites]
Best answer: It's just not big enough for two people to sleep comfortably. If you want someone to want to spend the night, you need to have space for them, which means having a queen.
This depends entirely on the size of the two people - and how much they like touching someone else when they are sleeping. My partner and I have been together for 20 years. We spent the first 7 years sleeping together in a single bed; we were young and very tolerant of sleeping essentially wrapped in each other. For the last 13 years, we have happily shared double beds. We're not tiny (175 pounds each), but we don't mind touching when we sleep. It only gets crowded when the cat stretches out and takes up half the foot.
As for the 'thing': this is cultural. I discovered when I was in my 20s that some middle class families (especially in the US?) give their teenagers double, aka 'full' beds, rather than singles. This was unheard of among my Canadian friends (working or middle class), but my American roommate had slept alone on a double since she was 14 or 15. It made sense that she felt that she absolutely needed a queen if she were to share it with someone else, as strange as that seemed to me. So I figure it's cultural, like whether you take your shoes off inside or not.
You should get the bed that best fits your space. You are the one who will have to live with the bed fulltime.
People will still want to date you and many will not care. If you get involved with someone who cares about the bed, hopefully they will also care enough about you to discuss the bed and (if you are serious) you can look at alternatives then.
posted by jb at 7:54 AM on August 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
This depends entirely on the size of the two people - and how much they like touching someone else when they are sleeping. My partner and I have been together for 20 years. We spent the first 7 years sleeping together in a single bed; we were young and very tolerant of sleeping essentially wrapped in each other. For the last 13 years, we have happily shared double beds. We're not tiny (175 pounds each), but we don't mind touching when we sleep. It only gets crowded when the cat stretches out and takes up half the foot.
As for the 'thing': this is cultural. I discovered when I was in my 20s that some middle class families (especially in the US?) give their teenagers double, aka 'full' beds, rather than singles. This was unheard of among my Canadian friends (working or middle class), but my American roommate had slept alone on a double since she was 14 or 15. It made sense that she felt that she absolutely needed a queen if she were to share it with someone else, as strange as that seemed to me. So I figure it's cultural, like whether you take your shoes off inside or not.
You should get the bed that best fits your space. You are the one who will have to live with the bed fulltime.
People will still want to date you and many will not care. If you get involved with someone who cares about the bed, hopefully they will also care enough about you to discuss the bed and (if you are serious) you can look at alternatives then.
posted by jb at 7:54 AM on August 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
Are the friends telling you this also living and dating in NYC, or at least a similarly expensive urban environment?
I mean, anecdata time: I'm 5 feet tall, Mr. Kouti is 5'7". When we first started dating, I had a full bed and he had a queen, and we managed just fine wherever we were sleeping or not sleeping, but we're both relatively compact. A decade of marriage later, we're okay in the queen but enjoy the king bed upgrade when we get it in hotels, because our bodies are older and crankier and more particular about heat and cooling and space needs. That being said, Mr. Kouti is not that tall for a dude, and he still manages to have his feet flop off the end of our queen bed - yes, a 67" tall guy flops his feet off the edge of an 80" long mattress. Often, when we were on my full bed, he'd lose his pillow in the middle of the night trying to keep his feet on the bed tucked under the blankets, because a full mattress is only 74" long.
NONE of this was taken as a signal of relationship readiness or desire for or lack thereof across my entire dating life, including the 6'2" guy I dated for a year while sleeping in a loft bed with a full-size mattress in my 200 SF studio. Anybody making that kind of excuse was looking for a no-commitment hookup and an impersonal excuse to ghost.
posted by Pandora Kouti at 8:16 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I mean, anecdata time: I'm 5 feet tall, Mr. Kouti is 5'7". When we first started dating, I had a full bed and he had a queen, and we managed just fine wherever we were sleeping or not sleeping, but we're both relatively compact. A decade of marriage later, we're okay in the queen but enjoy the king bed upgrade when we get it in hotels, because our bodies are older and crankier and more particular about heat and cooling and space needs. That being said, Mr. Kouti is not that tall for a dude, and he still manages to have his feet flop off the end of our queen bed - yes, a 67" tall guy flops his feet off the edge of an 80" long mattress. Often, when we were on my full bed, he'd lose his pillow in the middle of the night trying to keep his feet on the bed tucked under the blankets, because a full mattress is only 74" long.
NONE of this was taken as a signal of relationship readiness or desire for or lack thereof across my entire dating life, including the 6'2" guy I dated for a year while sleeping in a loft bed with a full-size mattress in my 200 SF studio. Anybody making that kind of excuse was looking for a no-commitment hookup and an impersonal excuse to ghost.
posted by Pandora Kouti at 8:16 AM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I lived in NYC for many years and was actively dating for most of that time. New Yorkers can be super judgey on many things, but I have never heard of someone declining a relationship with someone because their bed was too small.
posted by basalganglia at 8:36 AM on August 28, 2018
posted by basalganglia at 8:36 AM on August 28, 2018
I switched from a full to a queen size bed after I got a dog, because I like when my dog sleeps in bed with me but I also like not being crowded.
Your friends might see my bed and assume now hey, there's a lady with an opening in her life for a serious relationship! Your friends would be wrong. There's an opening in my life for approximately one, maybe 2 if they're small, additional dogs.
In conclusion your friends are dumb don't listen to them.
posted by phunniemee at 9:03 AM on August 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
Your friends might see my bed and assume now hey, there's a lady with an opening in her life for a serious relationship! Your friends would be wrong. There's an opening in my life for approximately one, maybe 2 if they're small, additional dogs.
In conclusion your friends are dumb don't listen to them.
posted by phunniemee at 9:03 AM on August 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
Ohh, from reading these comments, I wonder if what's going on is that your friends are used to partnering with larger people, perhaps? My partner and I are basically average-sized humans, AFAB and female. If we were talking to some of our big ol' bear friends, I can imagine a scenario where they'd think our bed was about half the size needed for two people to comfortably occupy. But for us, it was totally fine.
posted by lieber hair at 9:06 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by lieber hair at 9:06 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Nope. Not a thing. Sleep on what works for you. When and if it becomes an issue with a partner, then you discuss it.
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 9:09 AM on August 28, 2018
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 9:09 AM on August 28, 2018
While a double bed wouldn't be some sort of deal breaker, it would definitely make me far less inclined to spend the night. It's just not big enough for two people to sleep comfortably.
WTF is this bed inflation nonsense? My parents have slept on a double bed for 30 years, I've never owned anything but a double bed, it's CALLED a DOUBLE BED! Who has space for a goddamn queen anyway?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:23 AM on August 28, 2018 [11 favorites]
WTF is this bed inflation nonsense? My parents have slept on a double bed for 30 years, I've never owned anything but a double bed, it's CALLED a DOUBLE BED! Who has space for a goddamn queen anyway?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:23 AM on August 28, 2018 [11 favorites]
Best answer: On this:
I also thought that if I do enter a relationship and want to regularly share a bed with another human, I'd probably shop for a new one together with that person, rather than assuming they'd enjoy sleeping on the empty half of a bed I bought based on my own preference.
For me personally, there is a lot of daylight between the relationship stage where I can enjoy occasional-to-regular sleepovers with a person and the relationship stage where I'm ready to go bed shopping with them. Like at least 6-12 months of daylight. It would freak me out if someone said they were upgrading for my comfort while I was still testing the waters with them.
At the same time, I do enjoy being comfortable in a bed* and I will definitely skip the sleepover more often if I can't sleep well there. Could that get in the way of having that additional time and emotional intimacy together? It's possible, yeah. It's not that I'm judging them for the bed, it doesn't reflect on their character or whatever, it's just that it could honestly be a barrier to more time spent together (just as a busy schedule or a inconvenient commute or hostile roommates or any other range of annoyances might be, fair or no.) While I don't think the bed says anything about what you want, it does say something about what your priorities are - and hospitality to overnight guests may not be a priority - and that's perfectly valid!
*Personally I don't find sharing full beds uncomfortable but I'm a smallish 5'6" person who doesn't sleep hot or blanket hog or move much in my sleep.
posted by mosst at 9:26 AM on August 28, 2018
I also thought that if I do enter a relationship and want to regularly share a bed with another human, I'd probably shop for a new one together with that person, rather than assuming they'd enjoy sleeping on the empty half of a bed I bought based on my own preference.
For me personally, there is a lot of daylight between the relationship stage where I can enjoy occasional-to-regular sleepovers with a person and the relationship stage where I'm ready to go bed shopping with them. Like at least 6-12 months of daylight. It would freak me out if someone said they were upgrading for my comfort while I was still testing the waters with them.
At the same time, I do enjoy being comfortable in a bed* and I will definitely skip the sleepover more often if I can't sleep well there. Could that get in the way of having that additional time and emotional intimacy together? It's possible, yeah. It's not that I'm judging them for the bed, it doesn't reflect on their character or whatever, it's just that it could honestly be a barrier to more time spent together (just as a busy schedule or a inconvenient commute or hostile roommates or any other range of annoyances might be, fair or no.) While I don't think the bed says anything about what you want, it does say something about what your priorities are - and hospitality to overnight guests may not be a priority - and that's perfectly valid!
*Personally I don't find sharing full beds uncomfortable but I'm a smallish 5'6" person who doesn't sleep hot or blanket hog or move much in my sleep.
posted by mosst at 9:26 AM on August 28, 2018
What? I have never heard anything like this in my life. My boyfriend and I each have a double/full sized mattress at our own apartments, and when we stay together, there is absolutely no issue. And he is a bigger guy! Some nights I don’t even feel him! Your friends are weird.
posted by sucre at 9:48 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by sucre at 9:48 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
My wife and I have almost always slept on a double bed. For a couple of years we were in a queen but our kids were sleeping with us then. Now the kids have their own beds and we're currently sleeping on a double mattress on the floor (just moved) but we will be buying a queen in the not too distant future.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:05 AM on August 28, 2018
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:05 AM on August 28, 2018
The only correlation between beds and relationships I'm aware of, as a 30 year old lady dating in Boston, is that I'm done sleeping with employed men whose mattress is on the ground. I've got a full sized bed, the last person whose house I regularly slept over at had a full sized bed, and mattress size has never come up as a relationship ender.
posted by ChuraChura at 10:19 AM on August 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 10:19 AM on August 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I disagree with your friends on this one. To me, what they said might apply to an adult with a twin bed, not a double bed.
Plenty of couples have double beds. My husband and I sleep in a double bed. My parents slept in a double bed. It's fine.
posted by bananana at 10:57 AM on August 28, 2018
Plenty of couples have double beds. My husband and I sleep in a double bed. My parents slept in a double bed. It's fine.
posted by bananana at 10:57 AM on August 28, 2018
If you want to prioritize the comfort of any potential overnight guests and you live in a small room, maximizing bed size may not actually do that. It might feel cramped and uncomfortable.
posted by grouse at 10:57 AM on August 28, 2018
posted by grouse at 10:57 AM on August 28, 2018
"It's just not big enough for two people to sleep comfortably. If you want someone to want to spend the night, you need to have space for them, which means having a queen."
This isn't true. I'm a not-small woman who sleeps with a 6'2 man and a dog in a full bed every night. Like many other people here, my DEFINITELY not-small parents shared a full size bed for like 30 years.
Oh, we fantasize about getting a bigger bed sometimes, but this is New York! Who has room for that? The idea that two adults can't possibly share a full size bed is preposterous.
posted by cakelite at 11:09 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
This isn't true. I'm a not-small woman who sleeps with a 6'2 man and a dog in a full bed every night. Like many other people here, my DEFINITELY not-small parents shared a full size bed for like 30 years.
Oh, we fantasize about getting a bigger bed sometimes, but this is New York! Who has room for that? The idea that two adults can't possibly share a full size bed is preposterous.
posted by cakelite at 11:09 AM on August 28, 2018 [6 favorites]
Yeah, a twin bed after college says, "Breakfast not included with sex," but a full says nothing at all. You may have some paramours who might be less than comfortable sharing one to sleep, but even those aren't going to walk into your room and assume that you're not up to share.
(Cordially yours, a guy who has been sharing his queen bed with nobody but two cats, but cats are good at strategically making any bed's available space insufficient)
posted by jackbishop at 12:59 PM on August 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
(Cordially yours, a guy who has been sharing his queen bed with nobody but two cats, but cats are good at strategically making any bed's available space insufficient)
posted by jackbishop at 12:59 PM on August 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
I would notice an adult with a twin-size bed, and think that the owner probably didn't share it with people on the regular. What that implied about their relationship prospects would depend on pretty much everything else about them. Once you're into full/double beds, all bets are off.
posted by yeahlikethat at 1:26 PM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by yeahlikethat at 1:26 PM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Do your friends even live in the city? It would literally be impossible to put a queen bed in the bedroom of my small but respectable one-bedroom without completely blocking the walls. I'm hardly the only one in this situation.
posted by praemunire at 2:30 PM on August 28, 2018
posted by praemunire at 2:30 PM on August 28, 2018
This is weird. Your friends are concerned that the size of your bed will send a message to people that you’d rather be single? Um, the fact that you’re dating whomever and they actually get to see your bed in the first place should be enough for them to know that you’re interested...
posted by Jubey at 4:56 PM on August 28, 2018
posted by Jubey at 4:56 PM on August 28, 2018
And now for something completely different:
I'm in the process of furnishing a house and will be getting a king bed specifically to allow for sleepovers. Because fuck if I'm going to be scrunched up in my own bed just because I have someone stay the night. I don't need a king bed from day to day but it's logistically difficult to just swap one in on the spur of the moment.
So yes, the size of my bed is directly related to my interest in intimate relations over the next few years. And honestly I would be put off by being expected to share a double at someone else's place.
This may be an age thing. When I was in my twenties I wouldn't have cared much, but these days getting a good night's sleep is paramount.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:26 PM on August 28, 2018
I'm in the process of furnishing a house and will be getting a king bed specifically to allow for sleepovers. Because fuck if I'm going to be scrunched up in my own bed just because I have someone stay the night. I don't need a king bed from day to day but it's logistically difficult to just swap one in on the spur of the moment.
So yes, the size of my bed is directly related to my interest in intimate relations over the next few years. And honestly I would be put off by being expected to share a double at someone else's place.
This may be an age thing. When I was in my twenties I wouldn't have cared much, but these days getting a good night's sleep is paramount.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:26 PM on August 28, 2018
NYC has a lot of tall people and a full/double is only ~6' long. The extra length of a queen makes it a lot more comfortable for folks who are 6' or taller. That said queens aren't much wider really, just wide enough to make jamming it into your apartment like 400% more difficult, and kinda sounds like your friends are either being half serious or half crazy. Folks have definitely told me they would never sleep in a double bed or find it off-putting, but that just confirms to me to listen to people when they tell you who they are (inflexible with unrealistic expectations about mattress size, tall and can't sleep well if their feet hang off, a literal danger to someone sharing a double with them, etc).
Get the mattress you want! It hasn't been a problem before, you like your bedding, you like having space on the sides of your bed in your apartment. These are all totally normal and acceptable reasons to go for a double. I am small but have an "active" sleep style so sleep way better in a queen or a king (when I'm alone)- if I had a very large apartment or house I would upgrade to a king, which is TOTALLY RIDICULOUS but I accept my human vices.
posted by love2potato at 5:42 PM on August 28, 2018
Get the mattress you want! It hasn't been a problem before, you like your bedding, you like having space on the sides of your bed in your apartment. These are all totally normal and acceptable reasons to go for a double. I am small but have an "active" sleep style so sleep way better in a queen or a king (when I'm alone)- if I had a very large apartment or house I would upgrade to a king, which is TOTALLY RIDICULOUS but I accept my human vices.
posted by love2potato at 5:42 PM on August 28, 2018
New Yorkers are weirdly status-conscious about many things that make no sense to me, and perhaps this is one of them - but this makes no sense to me. I've never heard of such an idea before.
Like you, I've slept on a full-size bed for the last umpteen years. I had a full-size bed when I was the datingest I've ever been dating. I had a full-size bed when I met my wife, we shared a full-size bed for all the years we were married, and for all the years of dating since, I've continued to sleep on a full-size bed. If the full-size bed has been killing my game all these years, well, perhaps that's for the best, because I don't seem to need any more game than I've already got.
I am male and six-foot-two, for whatever that's worth.
posted by crotchety old git at 5:45 PM on August 28, 2018
Like you, I've slept on a full-size bed for the last umpteen years. I had a full-size bed when I was the datingest I've ever been dating. I had a full-size bed when I met my wife, we shared a full-size bed for all the years we were married, and for all the years of dating since, I've continued to sleep on a full-size bed. If the full-size bed has been killing my game all these years, well, perhaps that's for the best, because I don't seem to need any more game than I've already got.
I am male and six-foot-two, for whatever that's worth.
posted by crotchety old git at 5:45 PM on August 28, 2018
My folks celebrated their 36th wedding anniversary a couple weeks ago and have been on a full bed all that time. My partner slept in a full when I met him and we somehow managed to get up to all kinds of things in that bed. I did not interpret his sleeping in a full as anything other than "this is the size of bed that fits best in my room."
posted by potrzebie at 7:16 PM on August 28, 2018
posted by potrzebie at 7:16 PM on August 28, 2018
Are they Feng Shui believers? This sounds like Feng Shui advice to me. See suggestion #4 in this article.
Buy the full size bed and put bedside tables or shelves on both sides of the bed thus indicating your openness to having someone join you.
posted by BoscosMom at 8:25 PM on August 28, 2018
Buy the full size bed and put bedside tables or shelves on both sides of the bed thus indicating your openness to having someone join you.
posted by BoscosMom at 8:25 PM on August 28, 2018
I've worked in a bedding store, and I can attest that plenty of couples sleep in double beds. Possibly even the majority. Your friends are weirdos.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:43 PM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:43 PM on August 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Living in a country where full beds do not exist, I had to look up what one was. Having done so, I cannot see why your choice of bed indicates anything at all about your desire for a partner. I think you should get the bed that you want, is comfortable to you, fits in your space and is in your budget. If that is a full bed, do it.
However there seems to be a lot of judgement in the thread about people who have larger beds. I will just point out that there are people of above average height, breadth and weight who might well want a queen or king bed without having succumbed to Big Mattress, over-enthusiastic salespeople or similar. There are also people who have been in relationships which meant a larger bed was practical and then, having split up, retained the bed because why go out and buy a brand new bed when the one you have is perfectly good?
There are all kinds of reasons for people to have the beds they have. Don't buy into anyone's judgements about it, and if you meet someone who is that judgemental - well, do you really want to be inviting them into your bed anyway?
posted by Athanassiel at 12:09 AM on August 29, 2018
However there seems to be a lot of judgement in the thread about people who have larger beds. I will just point out that there are people of above average height, breadth and weight who might well want a queen or king bed without having succumbed to Big Mattress, over-enthusiastic salespeople or similar. There are also people who have been in relationships which meant a larger bed was practical and then, having split up, retained the bed because why go out and buy a brand new bed when the one you have is perfectly good?
There are all kinds of reasons for people to have the beds they have. Don't buy into anyone's judgements about it, and if you meet someone who is that judgemental - well, do you really want to be inviting them into your bed anyway?
posted by Athanassiel at 12:09 AM on August 29, 2018
Best answer: I was once a 33-year old queer woman dating in NYC and my full bed definitely did not "completely kill my game." I am now a 36-year old queer woman and I still sleep in a full bed, which I share with an enormous cat and occasionally my partner, and it has never been a problem. The 30-something year old queer woman from whom I inherited this full-sized bed also seemed to get up to plenty of shenanigans in it, and in fact was sure it was a queen-sized bed when she told me about it, but I have confirmed that she was wrong because the sheets I had for my previous (also full) mattress fit it perfectly.
Is it possible your friends thought you meant a twin bed? That's the only way I can make sense of this.
posted by dizziest at 8:05 AM on August 29, 2018
Is it possible your friends thought you meant a twin bed? That's the only way I can make sense of this.
posted by dizziest at 8:05 AM on August 29, 2018
Some folks want queens or bigger to sleep on solo. I've never had trouble with a partner on a full or double size bed, that afaik is the start of two-person bed sizes, but ultimately it will depend largely on the size of the people sharing the bed.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:00 PM on August 29, 2018
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:00 PM on August 29, 2018
Best answer: Not a thing. Not at all a thing. It hardly matters what "message" your bed is sending; you are the person sending messages, and your partner(s) the people receiving them. No one needs to read your bed for signals about relationships. Suggesting they do is advocating for a world of continued fucked-up communication.
When I was in my 20s and 30s I managed to lay and get laid on every possible configuration of bed (air, twin, floor, bunk, futon, full, queen, king, couch....it was the 90s). There was zero correlation between bed type and relationship seriousness. Zero.
Sleep in the bed you want, that fits the room, that you like, that you can afford, that you got for free, whatever. Your friends are full of shit.
posted by Miko at 7:59 PM on August 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
When I was in my 20s and 30s I managed to lay and get laid on every possible configuration of bed (air, twin, floor, bunk, futon, full, queen, king, couch....it was the 90s). There was zero correlation between bed type and relationship seriousness. Zero.
Sleep in the bed you want, that fits the room, that you like, that you can afford, that you got for free, whatever. Your friends are full of shit.
posted by Miko at 7:59 PM on August 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: This is a thing that people say. It is a thing that you should absolutely ignore.
C'mon, would you NOT date someone because of the size of their bed? Right. Of course not.
posted by desuetude at 9:37 PM on August 29, 2018
C'mon, would you NOT date someone because of the size of their bed? Right. Of course not.
posted by desuetude at 9:37 PM on August 29, 2018
To be blunt, if I went home with someone in order to get frisky, the size of their bed would only be an issue if it were a rickety cot, and then it would depend on just how frisky I was feeling.
posted by theora55 at 3:46 PM on September 2, 2018
posted by theora55 at 3:46 PM on September 2, 2018
Do these opinionated friends sleep with cis men?
A double is only 6'2" long (while a queen is 6'8"), so if your friends sleep with taller people (and over 6', that probably means cis men), then to them a double mattress will seem small, but they may not realize their assumption is biased.
Average height of an American woman is 5'4", so a 6'2" double mattress is likely plenty long for the majority of AFAB people.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:30 AM on September 3, 2018
A double is only 6'2" long (while a queen is 6'8"), so if your friends sleep with taller people (and over 6', that probably means cis men), then to them a double mattress will seem small, but they may not realize their assumption is biased.
Average height of an American woman is 5'4", so a 6'2" double mattress is likely plenty long for the majority of AFAB people.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:30 AM on September 3, 2018
This is kinda off track, but I find this is the kind of thing "friends" say when they are trying to cut you down or undermine your confidence. So I don't know if that's a dynamic here, but maybe.
posted by Miko at 4:37 AM on September 5, 2018
posted by Miko at 4:37 AM on September 5, 2018
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posted by ElectricGoat at 4:43 AM on August 28, 2018 [9 favorites]