I used to be into cameras. Where should I start?

July 25, 2018 6:47 PM

I used to love cameras and be good with cameras. That was 15 years ago. I'd like to get a full sensor DSLR, good for beginners, that might be good for someone who would like to take photography seriously. What should I get? Planning to use this for travel photography.

My background is Canon, but it is so long ago that I'm open to any brand. Open to both mirrorless (full sensor) and mirrors, but mostly thinking about getting a DSLR. My budget is ideally under 1k for the body but open to more if it changes my world. I have small hands, so I'd prefer something that fits nicely in small hands, but know that doesn't describe most DSLRs.

posted by arnicae to Shopping (28 answers total)

Do you still have lenses? If so they should be compatible in at least manual mode.
posted by sammyo at 7:26 PM on July 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: No lenses.
posted by arnicae at 7:27 PM on July 25, 2018

Get a Fuji X100T. It isn't a DSLR, but it takes pictures that are as good if not better than any DSLR in your price range. It is small and very sturdily built, so good for small hands and amazing for traveling - it fits in a pocket. It is incredibly fun to use and can be configured anywhere from absolute beginner to full-on manual. I love this camera, and I'm not the only one.
posted by googly at 7:41 PM on July 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

i would recommend start your investigation at dpreview.com read their posts/reviews as to the top cameras --consider their recommendations--- then go to their forums to ask questions..

good luck
posted by prk60091 at 7:42 PM on July 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Full frame sensors (which I assume is what you mean by full sensor) require a lot of power, which means a big battery, and they generate more heat that needs to be dissipated. Neither the big battery nor the heat envelope are really compatible with small cameras, which is why the Nikon and Canon full frame cameras are so big and heavy. For your price range you could pick up the original Sony A7, which is on the small side (and has a small battery), but it's several years old and it's also got a lot of quirks that make it hard to recommend. For a price bump you could look at the Nikon D750 or Canon 6D Mark II, but Canon really phoned that model in and the Nikon might be big for what you want.

If you're willing to go with a smaller sensor you have many more options. Canon's got a whole Rebel line of smaller SLRs, Nikon's D7500 is great, Fuji cameras are awesome, Sony's A6000 series are widely available and well liked (even if not so much by me) and Olympus and Panasonic produce a huge, overlapping, confusing array of Micro Four Thirds cameras that certainly contains at least one camera that would meet all your criteria except for sensor size.

For classic feeling cameras, Fuji has really, really nice control layouts, and Olympus goes overboard with configurable knobs and buttons. If you're OK with a fixed lens camera the X100 series is hard to beat, but their interchangeable lens cameras are also worth looking at. And I always feel like I have to preface an Olympus recommendation with a warning about the learning curve, but once you learn where everything is (and how to configure it to your liking) Olympus cameras really are a joy to use.
posted by fedward at 8:07 PM on July 25, 2018

On a budget I would rather have a crop-sensor and a good lens than a full frame camera and a cheap lens. I haven't bought a new camera in a while, but I have a 60D (which is a 1.3x crop sensor I believe) and a Canon 6D which is a full frame camera. Aside from the 6D being a full frame, *most* of the specs are about in line except the 6D is newer so it has much better high ISO performance.

I think you get the better high ISO performance with most newer cameras, full frame or not. If that's true then I would buy the equivalent of a 60D in today's terms, and look for an L-series lens or two of the kind you want. This is a bit tricky - when you buy high quality lenses you need to buy fewer of them so you kind of need to know what you want.

I have two L-series lenses, and they outperform all my other lenses so much that I use them like 80% of the time. I have a 28-70 L-series zoom and a 70-200MM f/4 IS L-series zoom. I have some cheaper zooms which I almost never use, and some non-L prime lenses, most of which are very good but are used for specific purposes (somewhat rarely)

Sorry, this ended up being a little rambly. The tl;dr version is:
* get a crop sensor body that has the features you want - I recommend as modern of one as possible that has good high-ISO performance
* get a small number of high quality lenses - the best you can afford, and don't be afraid to go used

I've been shooting as a hobby since the mid-90s and frankly this is all a bit of wankery, the quality that you can get with a mid-level DSLR and a kit lens blows away a lot of the high quality gear from the 1990s. Combine this with the fact that you have (nearly) unlimited shots instead of rather expensive film and you can get really really good results with relatively modest gear.
posted by RustyBrooks at 8:21 PM on July 25, 2018 [4 favorites]

Get a full frame body. There is no substitute for photons and separation between them. At your budget you’d be looking at a used Canon 5d Mark something. The battery life of those is fine and extra battery packs are the size of a roll of film and are light.
posted by w0mbat at 8:29 PM on July 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Canon's got a whole Rebel line of smaller SLRs

Rather than the Rebel, which is big, I'd go for the Canon EOS M3 mirrorless, which has the same or better image quality (it's what I own). There's a kit with both 16-55 and a 55-200.

The Sony A6000 series may also be a good choice.

I like my M3 because it's really light and compact, although image processing between shots can be slow, which is why the ony may be a better choice.
posted by JamesBay at 8:49 PM on July 25, 2018 [3 favorites]

Is your travel photography landscapes or animals? While the full frame let's you make full use of the good superwides available for both Canon and Nikon a crop sensor gives you more reach with a modest (cheap/fast) telephoto. The crop body will also be lighter so nicer to carry while hiking.

Especially with your budget. You'll be able to get a lot more bang for your buck with a crop sensor because you'll be able to get a newer model. IE: the cheaper crop camera will get you a better sensor/better autofocus/better ISO for the same money. Also you can IME more often get crops with very low shutter counts than full frame units.
posted by Mitheral at 8:50 PM on July 25, 2018

Do you have a friend that is into photography that will lend you lenses? If so, consider getting the same format.

For starting out, unless you intend to be in really low light or want an extremely wide angle option, you don't need a full frame camera. The high end crop sensors are very good and you can get fairly wide angle equivalent lenses for them. For example, on the Nikon side of things, I'd rather shoot with a D7200 than a D600 for most purposes.

Also consider why you want a DSLR and consider whether a mirrorless camera fits your hands, budget, and needs more.
posted by Candleman at 8:56 PM on July 25, 2018

As an accessory, I highly recommended a photologger that is usb rechargeable, like the canmores.

With open source software like easy GPS and geosetter, you can stamp date time location, altitude into the exif data of the digital image file.

It s so worth it if you're going to look at photos 5 years later and wonder, where was that?

As a naturalist, I use the photologger to interface with inaturalist, almost seamlessly. Databasing is simple. It makes your observation logs into a game of Pokemon.
posted by eustatic at 9:42 PM on July 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

There are GPS options built into cameras directly, but I find that these are total battery killers, compared with having to charge the logger once a week.
posted by eustatic at 9:47 PM on July 25, 2018

Yeah, mirrorless is the way to go. You can get all of the functional control and responsiveness of a DSLR, but in a fraction of the size. For me this meant my trips feel like trips again rather than photography expeditions; for you probably better hand fit. You don't have many (any?) options for full frame in your price range; there are good mirrorless cameras that have the same size sensors (APS-C) as the DSLRs in your price range, I doubt you need the large sensor for general travel. And there are nice things you can't do with DSLRs, like zebra striping live through the viewfinder. I had a couple of DSLRs and a mirrorless destroyed in a flood a couple of years ago, and I didn't bother replacing the DSLRs.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 9:54 PM on July 25, 2018 [5 favorites]

If you stick to your criteria, this decision is a no brainer as there are literally only two full frame cameras you can get under a grand - a Sony A7, which is ancient, quirky and not to be recommended especially compared to their recent offerings; or a Canon 6D. The Canon is also long in the tooth at 5 years old, and consequently has limited autofocus, burst and video modes. It's also pretty damned big. But I would pick the Canon in this scenario.

I personally would be confident that a more recent crop sensor with decent glass would smoke both of these cameras along multiple axes (ergonomics, focus speed, video just to name a few), and I wouldn't be so quick to write off crop sensors if I were you. Especially if you want a portable traveling solution.

Is there a reason you really want full frame? Professionals are using all kinds of cams these days; crop sensors aren't usually the limitation when it comes to good photography any more.
posted by smoke at 10:08 PM on July 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

I love my small aps-c sensor size mirrorless Sony. Keep getting tempted by a newer full frame but whenever I play with one in a shop they just seem so big - for me, the best camera is the one you have with you and I think I'd end up leaving a larger one at home too much.
posted by JonB at 1:06 AM on July 26, 2018

I got a camera from the Canon Rebel series. It was affordable but it takes great photos and I can use different lenses for different types of photography. I'm no expert, but I've been under the impression Canon is still consider among the best. Some people like Nikon and I think Sony is gaining ground, but you can't go wrong with Canon.
posted by AppleTurnover at 1:34 AM on July 26, 2018

Alleged photos of the long rumored Nikon full frame mirrorless leaked yesterday. Nikon also announced it. Canon is rumored to be several months from doing the same.
posted by Homer42 at 4:46 AM on July 26, 2018

I literally bought a new camera yesterday after being out of serious photography for a decade. Also, with travel photography as a main driver.

I ended up choosing to go with the Micro 4/3 format. Much smaller cameras, good selection of lenses.

I ended up with a Lumix DMC-GX85. Great kit for the price. It has image stabilization in the body and the lens. It can transfer pics to my phone or iPad over wifi so I don't have to travel with a computer. It charges over USB so no additional charger. So many great things about it.
posted by advicepig at 7:17 AM on July 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Ok - what kind of mirrorless or 4/3 cameras would MeFites suggest? Thanks!
posted by arnicae at 7:19 AM on July 26, 2018

I'd look SUPER hard at the new Sonys. I have an Olympus, but I've been eyeing a shift to the Sony full-frame mirrorless for a while now.
posted by uberchet at 7:42 AM on July 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

Two considerations with mirrorless cameras are whether they have a viewfinder, and whether the screen is a touchscreen. If you've used a camera with a touchscreen the cameras that don't have them (or don't implement them well) seem really awkward. The viewfinder is a matter of personal preference and habit. I've got two camera bodies, one with a viewfinder and one without, and 98% of the time I use them both via the touchscreen. I use the viewfinder on the camera that has it no more than twice a year.

Olympus: PEN-F, OM-D E-M5ii (although they're expected to release the Mark III Any Day Now), maybe the E-PL9 or E-M10iii. The latter two have a revised version of Olympus' notorious UI that's supposed to make them easier for novices to pick up and shoot, but the rest of the settings are still there. You may or may not like that default UI, and you can turn it off if you don't. The E-PL9 doesn't have a viewfinder.

Panasonic: The same models may have different names around the world to preserve regional distribution channels and pricing. Look at the Lumix DMC-GX850 (known as the GX800 or GF9 elsewhere) or the Lumix DMC-GX85 (which does only seem to have one name worldwide). Maybe the GX9 as an upgrade. The GX850 has no viewfinder; the GX85 has a fixed viewfinder; the GX9 has a cool tilting viewfinder.

Sony: The A6000 series is really well liked, but I find them extremely uncomfortable to hold and I thought the menus were somehow worse than Olympus' menus. The newest A6500 is incredibly fast to focus and shoot; the A6300 is quite good and was still available the last time I checked. Sony's lens selection isn't as robust as Micro Four Thirds, but there's still some good glass.

Fujifilm: They were late to introduce touchscreens, seeming to prefer four-way controllers, joysticks, and dials, but the newest models have them. Look first at the XT-20 if you want an SLR-style viewfinder hump, or the X-E3 if you want a rangefinder-style viewfinder on the top left corner. I'm a left-eye shooter like this and I might have a hard time with the controls on the X-E3, but it's pretty spiffy otherwise. Fujifilm's lens lineup is excellent, with excellent sharpness and color rendering (but somewhat slower focus compared to Sony or Olympus).

Canon and Nikon: wait. Nikon's earlier mirrorless series (the Nikon 1 line) sort of petered out; Canon's mirrorless cameras have been somewhat crippled because they didn't want to steal business from their SLR line. While they've recently introduced some usable mirrorless models, the dedicated EF-M lens lineup isn't even comparable to Sony's more limited offerings, and nowhere near what you get with Fujifilm or Micro Four Thirds. You can adapt a wide range of EF mount lenses, of course, but that's additional expense and weight.

It may be helpful to think of priorities. In extremely broad strokes:

Lenses: Micro Four Thirds or Fujifilm.
Speed: Olympus or Sony.
Out of camera JPEG quality: Olympus or Fujifilm.
Best RAW files: Sony.
Video: Panasonic or Sony.
Software UI: Panasonic.
Hardware controls: Fujifilm or Olympus.
Overall shooting experience: Fujifilm.

A lot of it is going to depend on how the cameras feel to you, though. The best thing you can do is try a bunch of them out and see what tickles your fancy. Any camera I mentioned above is a good camera. I love my Olympus cameras but they are idiosyncratic and customizable to a fault (I have to have a spreadsheet to keep track of settings). I am constantly tempted by Fujifilm cameras, and I know objectively that Sony cameras are really good now, but I can't get past how uncomfortable they feel to me. As a previous Canon user I really wanted Canon's mirrorless line to be better than it was originally, but I haven't been tempted to switch back.

Good luck!
posted by fedward at 8:24 AM on July 26, 2018 [3 favorites]

I would highly recommend looking into the Sony A series. They work just like DSLR cameras and you can buy different lenses and practice manual exposure, and they're half the size, which will prompt you to use it more especially when traveling. I just sold my old DSLR because it's way too heavy and clunky for normal day/travel use. I have the A7ii which is full frame and cost more, but my friends have the A6 and love it.
posted by monologish at 9:17 AM on July 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

It sounds to me like a Sony A7 would be right up your alley. They are smaller, but take incredible shots. Here is the instagram of an acquaintance in Boston who shoots with iPhone and Sony A7, if you want to get a feel for what's possible: link

On edit, I see it's actually an a6000 which she uses primarily. This is just an older version of the same.
posted by dbx at 9:23 AM on July 26, 2018 [1 favorite]

The A6000 is in the line from the prior NEX-6 to the newest A6500. It has a smaller sensor than the A7 series (the sensor in the NEX/A6000/A5000 series is a often referred to as APS-C, or crop; the A7 series has full frame sensors). People who use Sony cameras often refer to them by their lens mount, but since I'm not a Sony user I would certainly misspeak if I tried to talk about all the different mounts and what lenses work on what cameras. Good cameras; limited and sometimes confusing lenses.
posted by fedward at 10:46 AM on July 26, 2018 [2 favorites]

@googly — I'm curious, why the X100T and not the X100F?
posted by howling fantods at 11:30 AM on July 26, 2018

Only because I have the X100T and can personally attest to how fun it is to use. But yeah, X100F looks like it would be just as fun and gives you more MP and a few nice tweaks.
posted by googly at 6:45 AM on July 28, 2018

If you're on a budget for travel photography, the standard answers are either a Sony RX100 compact (if you want a smaller all-in-one solution) or a micro four thirds camera, where the smaller sensor size really wins big in terms of lens size.

If you're starting out again, I'd start with a used Olympus OMD e-m10, e-m5, or e-m1 - all mark 1. The e-m10 can be picked up for as little as $150-200 before getting a lens (kit lens is $50-100). That initial $200-300 buy in won't really depreciate any further, and it gets you a small camera body that gives copious amounts of feedback if you decide to start shooting fully manual. Yes, olympus menus are complicated, but that complication gives you great power.

You need to go pretty far into other manufacturer's product lines before you get dual control dials. Even if you do get dual control dials, you can't really (apart from fuji) use those dials for anything other than aperture and shutter speed. With Oly, you can flip the dials over to control ISO and white balance, then flip back, and if you enable the super control panel, you can have the dials control all sorts of other stuff, as well.

Additionally, nobody other than Olympus will give you live real time feedback on both the LCD and in the viewfinder of what all your knob twiddling is actually doing. 15 years ago you looked to see where the little needle was in terms of being over/under exposed. Now you might get a live histogram view on mirrorless. On dslrs you'll need to take a photo, then check the exposure for clipping, then adjust and take another photo, etc. (or you can deal with hacked together live views on the LCD). Olympus can (if you set it up) give you real time warnings if you're clipping the highlights or shadows, and you can watch that clipping increase/decrease as you mess about in the exposure triangle. You mention being willing to pay more if something will change your world - this real time feedback will do that. FWIW - sony and fuji mirrorless will both give real time feedback if you're clipping the highlights, but I'm pretty sure neither does the shadows. Plus both are significantly more expensive both new and used vs. micro four thirds, both weigh more given equivalent lenses, and sony's crop mirrorless lens library hasn't been updated in years.

Also: to maximize your quality and dynamic range, shoot RAW with a preference for low ISO. There's nothing worse than someone with white hot full frame gear who shoots in auto mode all the time at high ISO, which effectively brings down the performance of their gear to stuff an order of magnitude cheaper (or more). I've grown to expect better photos off someone shooting RAW/full manual with a compact RX100 or Canon gx7 vs. someone shooting cameras of any size in auto mode. In fact, I personally would take an older, smaller sensor body vs. one with a newer, larger sensor if the former gave me multiple control dials and lots of customizable buttons.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 1:09 PM on August 15, 2018

NoRelationToLea: " Even if you do get dual control dials, you can't really (apart from fuji) use those dials for anything other than aperture and shutter speed. "

There are numerous things you can change with Nikon dual dial dSLR controls besides aperture and speed including ISO, exposure comp, flash comp, and exposure shifting in auto/programmable mode (these are just the ones I use personally, there are others too).
posted by Mitheral at 2:21 PM on August 15, 2018