Is this reasonable, unreasonable, unethical, or illegal?
July 25, 2018 2:53 PM Subscribe
Insurance apparently refuses to pay part of an old bill, so the dentist is billing me for it--which is fine--but they've added a 90-days-late fee to the charge even though I was in the office on June 6, have a receipt saying "balance due now: $0.00," and the newest bill is dated June 30th. I don't think it's reasonable to charge me this late fee.
I've tried a couple times to sort this out on the phone (the office is 30 minutes away from home, 45 from work) but that has gotten me nowhere. At first they told me the fee (in a cell with the header "past 91 days and over") was a late fee. When I pointed out the absurdity of charging me a "91 days and over" late fee on a bill that was 23 days old (I rarely check my mail), the receptionist said she'd talk to the office manager and call me back. That was Monday.
She hadn't called me back by lunchtime today, so I called again, and again pointed out the absurdity of charging me this "91 days and over" late fee on a bill that isn't even a month old. They changed their tune and said that it wasn't a late fee, but then they couldn't explain what the fee was for or why it was in that box.
They insist that I owe this fee. I don't believe that I do. The bottom of the bill says "If your insurance pays less than the above estimated amount you will be responsible for the difference." It does not add "and a late fee because we're annoyed with your insurance company."
I live in the U.S., in Florida. Do I actually owe them this money [YANAL, YANML]? I'm going in on Monday to pay the amount that I believe I owe (which, by then, might also include this late fee) and to cancel any remaining appointments (yes, I will get another receipt, for all the good that will do me).
I've tried a couple times to sort this out on the phone (the office is 30 minutes away from home, 45 from work) but that has gotten me nowhere. At first they told me the fee (in a cell with the header "past 91 days and over") was a late fee. When I pointed out the absurdity of charging me a "91 days and over" late fee on a bill that was 23 days old (I rarely check my mail), the receptionist said she'd talk to the office manager and call me back. That was Monday.
She hadn't called me back by lunchtime today, so I called again, and again pointed out the absurdity of charging me this "91 days and over" late fee on a bill that isn't even a month old. They changed their tune and said that it wasn't a late fee, but then they couldn't explain what the fee was for or why it was in that box.
They insist that I owe this fee. I don't believe that I do. The bottom of the bill says "If your insurance pays less than the above estimated amount you will be responsible for the difference." It does not add "and a late fee because we're annoyed with your insurance company."
I live in the U.S., in Florida. Do I actually owe them this money [YANAL, YANML]? I'm going in on Monday to pay the amount that I believe I owe (which, by then, might also include this late fee) and to cancel any remaining appointments (yes, I will get another receipt, for all the good that will do me).
So this was for work done on June 6? Or is June 6 just the last time you were in the dentist's office to settle up your bill? I'd assume that they're counting the days past the point the work was actually done to calculate late charges, if that makes a difference.
posted by Aleyn at 3:08 PM on July 25, 2018
posted by Aleyn at 3:08 PM on July 25, 2018
Keep your documentation.
Put it in writing to the office manager AND the dentist that you are not paying a 90 days late fee on a bill that is 48 days late, less days if they count from the date it was discovered insurance would not cover the total procedure.
Pay them what you owe them on the original bill.
Keep your documentation because if they sell the debt to a collection agency it will be very easy to prove you don't owe the money.
Call them up in person and follow up on your email. I just don't know how you can move forward without putting this fee dispute in writing to let them know you are super duper serious. They sound disorganized, but you don't have to pay the fee just because they are mean and stupid.
posted by jbenben at 3:41 PM on July 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
Put it in writing to the office manager AND the dentist that you are not paying a 90 days late fee on a bill that is 48 days late, less days if they count from the date it was discovered insurance would not cover the total procedure.
Pay them what you owe them on the original bill.
Keep your documentation because if they sell the debt to a collection agency it will be very easy to prove you don't owe the money.
Call them up in person and follow up on your email. I just don't know how you can move forward without putting this fee dispute in writing to let them know you are super duper serious. They sound disorganized, but you don't have to pay the fee just because they are mean and stupid.
posted by jbenben at 3:41 PM on July 25, 2018 [5 favorites]
I am not a lawyer, and I am not familiar with medical billing.
I previously had what I perceive to be a worse situation - I actually was significantly late (>90 days) on a number of bills (>30) due to delays in insurance companies accepting responsibility. Many of the bills prior to being late included a deadline for payment and included the late fee that'd be imposed when becoming late. Correspondingly, my bills went up and I'd receive a monthly reminder of how late I was.
The advice I received both from my lawyer and my insurance contacts was to simply pay the amount owed whenever the insurance companies got around to accepting responsibility. I ignored all the late fees and paid precisely the original amount owed. I found this exceptionally odd, but I'll note that I never received any contact after that.
posted by saeculorum at 5:59 PM on July 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I previously had what I perceive to be a worse situation - I actually was significantly late (>90 days) on a number of bills (>30) due to delays in insurance companies accepting responsibility. Many of the bills prior to being late included a deadline for payment and included the late fee that'd be imposed when becoming late. Correspondingly, my bills went up and I'd receive a monthly reminder of how late I was.
The advice I received both from my lawyer and my insurance contacts was to simply pay the amount owed whenever the insurance companies got around to accepting responsibility. I ignored all the late fees and paid precisely the original amount owed. I found this exceptionally odd, but I'll note that I never received any contact after that.
posted by saeculorum at 5:59 PM on July 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
I find there is nothing more conclusive than a paper letter sent by postal mail for stuff like this. Via certified mail if you want to send a message: ‘enclosed please find forty dollars. “I trust this concludes our business.”’
Stupid theater but it works for people who insist on stupid theater.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:44 PM on July 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Stupid theater but it works for people who insist on stupid theater.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:44 PM on July 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
It may be that the invoicing software added that automatically. Agree with paying the amount minus the late fee without further comment. You can see what happens - if they send another invoice/statement with just the late fee or not. At that point, you can discuss with them. I bet they don't send another statement.
posted by RoadScholar at 7:37 PM on July 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by RoadScholar at 7:37 PM on July 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Another option, if you like your dentist, is to call, ask to speak to them, and explain the billing issue. I would definitely tell the dentist directly that you're canceling future appointments due to this.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:06 AM on July 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:06 AM on July 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
If they don't respond, look into your state's laws for small claims court and whether $90 is too small. This is one of those times where the mention that you will bring an action in small claims court suddenly makes the bill go away.
The other solution in this scenario is to suggest that you'll have to write a negative review online.
But you'll probably do much better by being nice and assuming it's an accident on their part and that they'll resolve it (and saying so).
posted by luckdragon at 10:09 AM on July 26, 2018
The other solution in this scenario is to suggest that you'll have to write a negative review online.
But you'll probably do much better by being nice and assuming it's an accident on their part and that they'll resolve it (and saying so).
posted by luckdragon at 10:09 AM on July 26, 2018
Response by poster: They waived the fee, then issued a new bill on 7/31/18 (the day after I paid), moving the $33 fee from "past 91 days and over" to "past 30-60 days." The previous bill was issued on 6/30/18. I paid it on 7/30/18. June ends on the 30th, so the math here is very easy: that is 30 days from the billing date. 30 days is not past itself.
So now I'll have to print up a new letter and take more time off work to send it via certified mail as well.
Is there a professional body which oversees medical/dental billing? I'd like to alert them to these irregularities. I'm imagining a few different possible causes, none of which should be ignored.
posted by johnofjack at 8:45 AM on August 19, 2018
So now I'll have to print up a new letter and take more time off work to send it via certified mail as well.
Is there a professional body which oversees medical/dental billing? I'd like to alert them to these irregularities. I'm imagining a few different possible causes, none of which should be ignored.
posted by johnofjack at 8:45 AM on August 19, 2018
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posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:58 PM on July 25, 2018 [5 favorites]