Spouse doesn't exert parental authority - what are my options?

July 12, 2018 4:15 PM

My spouse doesn't exert any parental authority with my son - as a result he is developing some bad behaviors, he is playing us against each other, and it is slowly killing our marriage. What are my options?

Let's state this first. My wife and son are amazing. She is an amazing mother and he is an amazing son.
My son however, needs to be constantly pushed to carry out age-appropriate tasks in the house: brushing his teeth, doing homework, helping himself to food in the fridge. It's nothing i'm too concerned about in and of itself.
However, I'm the only one doing the pushing. It's not in my wife's psyche to be tough, and she lets him push her around.
So we end up arguing, and I'm getting frustrated because we're not a united front, and my kid naturally, is exploiting this and he is being exposed to this bickering. I also worry that he sees his father nagging away at his mother, and wonder what that is doing to his perception of women and spouses.
But I also don't want these behaviors to continue. I don't like that he treats his mother like a servant and that he is able to meander his way out of his responsibilities - and what I worry is that he will treat his spouse the same way.
And I am tired of nagging my wife. I don't like the person I am becoming, and I don't like what it's doing to my marriage.

Just to be clear, I don't care about trivial things, like TV habits. What I care about is that he builds a foundation where he can take care of himself, think for himself, not rely on anyone for basic needs, and not treat anyone like his personal servant.

What can I do?

posted by bitteroldman to Human Relations (20 answers total)

You can't stop your wife from getting her son a snack from the fridge even if you'd rather he gets up and gets it for himself.
For everything else: stop nagging and make a chart of responsibilities for him, with rewards built in. There are many ways to do this, depending on his age and his capacities to delay reward. But the point is, you need to make this an objective set of expectations ("brushing teeth," "getting dressed," whatever) with your wife.
Don't include everything at once. He's not going to suddenly just do everything he *can* do all at once. Get him into a couple of habits with the chart and gradually add more.
But don't nag your wife in front of him. He can have a different relationship to his mom than to you, it's fine. If he asks you for a glass of juice you don't have to get it. But she is allowed to even if you don't think it's what you'd do. And really, your treating her with respect is more important to how he will view women than whether or not she indulges him this way. You're benefiting from her easygoing, non-confrontational nature just as much as your kid is; if my husband corrected my parenting in front of my kid over minor things, I'd be much less patient with him than it sounds like she is with you.
posted by nantucket at 4:22 PM on July 12, 2018 [18 favorites]

Your child is 8 from what I gather from previous questions.
As the parent of a 9 year old, I too have to do some reminding for certain things. However, stuff like teeth brushing is typically done without a reminder. Homework is a little different and what works for us is having a strong pattern - homework is done immediately upon arrival home before anything else. If by getting food out of the fridge, I assume you mean the sort of thing where kid is watching TV and yells "can someone get me some milk?" to which the reply is "get it yourself."

But what I don't get here is why you two are fighting about this. Surely you agree that the child needs to brush his teeth right? Is the question how you get him to do it? Or do you mean that you think that kid should get his own milk and your spouse gets it for him and you're worried about this?

So for now...
- stop fighting about this in front of kid. If you are more of a "get the milk yourself kid" person and your wife gets it for him in that moment, quietly say to her "when you do that, you're undermining me and that isn't a good thing" and have the conversation later.
- have a conversation about what kind of values you want to instill in your kid and how your household expectations can reinforce those.
- maybe a counselor or someone would help. You sound really distraught... More than one would expect for this problem. It sounds like something bigger is going on.
posted by k8t at 4:25 PM on July 12, 2018 [6 favorites]

first, instead of arguing, both of you should sit down individually and write a list of what expectations each of you have for your son. also, write down what your son is already good at, and where you think he needs to improve.

then, hire a babysitter (if needed) and go to a coffee shop or dinner or something and go through your lists, and see where you meet up, and negotiate where you don't. talk through it instead of arguing. decide what's most important to you both, and then go home, and talk to your son about what he needs to do to earn whatever carrot on the stick is more rewarding to him (tv time, money towards a video game system, an allowance, whatever.). talk to him about the fact that as he learns to do these things with more regularity, his goals will change too.

check in with each other every three months, and adjust things as bitteryoungkid starts to get things/gets older.
posted by koroshiya at 4:28 PM on July 12, 2018 [13 favorites]

Also to add, I have moments here and there where I realize... Shit, my kid needs to learn this thing. This is stuff that I traditionally did for him like rip a plastic price tag thing off of clothes without ripping them. Or loading a flashlight with batteries correctly. There is so much stuff to learn in life that makes one more independent. Take those moments separately from the sort of treatment of people stuff. (my 2 cents)
posted by k8t at 4:29 PM on July 12, 2018 [2 favorites]

Best answer: I would say to continue interacting with your son with how you see fit and allow your wife to do the same.
posted by loveandhappiness at 4:32 PM on July 12, 2018 [9 favorites]

Best answer: I am a parent of teenagers and one adult. Some day your child won’t need you anymore and you’ll still wish they did.

You’ll lay in bed in the middle of the night and think about all the things you wished you could go back and do better. You’ll see your teenagers as barely old enough to brave the world and think back to how hard you pushed them as young children and your heart will hurt.

They only need you for a short time, and when that time is gone you’ll only be able to remember your actions.

Ask yourself what you’ll want to remember when your child no longer needs you.

In my case my situation was exactly like yours, I was like you and when I lie in bed at night and look back on myself I cry deep tears from inside wishing I could go back and do it all differently. I didn’t need to push my kids as hard as I did. They resent me for it and I regret it.
posted by nikaspark at 4:49 PM on July 12, 2018 [31 favorites]

I am in this same boat.

I have a 7 and 3 year old. I am always the bad cop. I make sure they do what they need to do and really have to ride them to have them get basic things done. Mom is happy to do it for them, then gets mad at me when she's overworked. They definitely know how to play one parent against the other.

I have no solution, so I will be looking at this thread.

When Mom is gone everything goes completely smooth. Everything gets done and everything gets put away in its place. We have a lot of fun too. As soon as Mom comes home there are a litany of non existent injuries and everyone needs her attention immediately for everything. Because she will give it.

I am the consistent parent. There are rules. You follow these rules. That is the end of discussion. I know this isn't a help, but there are benefits to being the rules parent. My kids are very independent and very good in school, academic and behavior wise. They listen to what I say, and they follow it.

One of the things I say literally a dozen times a day for the last 5 years is "Why don't you go do this yourself, you know how. Why do you want to make Mommy's life harder? We should all be trying to make Mommy's life easier".

It's all I can do, and it's a tossup if they will go do it or if Mom will. It depends how far away she is I guess.
posted by sanka at 5:00 PM on July 12, 2018 [4 favorites]

My son however, needs to be constantly pushed to carry out age-appropriate tasks in the house

Who decided he needs to be pushed and what tasks are age-appropriate? It sounds like you made a lot of unilateral decisions and then are shocked the sentient beings in your life might have different priorities or values or ideas. Getting outraged on your wife’s behalf is also a little odd, presumably she can speak for herself.

It sounds like there needs to be a lot more communication and compromise (not to say you will do this, but monologuing at and wearing down people to make them agree with you is neither communication nor compromise). Drop the issue with your son until you and your wife are back on the co-parenting team and you have made some significant changes in your behaviour. It isn’t that your current behaviour is “wrong”, but neither is your wife’s behaviour - and you strongly feel it is wrong. There are lots of different ways to parent, and different priorities to have at different stages.
posted by saucysault at 5:29 PM on July 12, 2018 [5 favorites]

There is also a well-known pattern that if one parent because the ”hardass” the other parent becomes more gentle in reaction, which makes the other parent come down harder and the gentle parent become more lassiez-faire.

It sounds like you are unconsciously promoting that dynamic.
posted by saucysault at 5:32 PM on July 12, 2018 [7 favorites]

Best answer: We have a similar dynamic in our household, with me (the father) as the disciplinarian, although I would not say that my kids are playing Mom and Dad off against each other.

In our case, it's a difference in parenting styles, that's all. Looking at the end point -- when they leave home -- I would say everything is going to work out fine. They're both nice kids (8 and 15), and are emotionally healthy. Truly delightful human beings.

So I've tried to develop a bit of perspective and ease up, if I can (I still annoy the hell out of all three of them at times, though).

With doing chores or self-care or simply becoming autonomous, well, as mentioned above, it's a marathon. Some of these behaviors are not exactly learned through practice. Me having to do chores on Saturdays did not make it more likely I would keep my apartment clean in university, for example.

As they get older it's also easier to appeal to reason -- hey, I'm busy making dinner, can you set the table?

I do tend to think my wife -- their mother -- "spoils" them by making their lunch and things like that, but on the other hand that is a way to express love and affection, and to nurture a child. Unconditional love is a wonderful thing.

It's obviously more complicated that, especially when reinforcing unwritten gender rules, for example, but with my older son we can sometimes have brief, informal talks about healthy relationships between men and women. Or the importance of self-care, like brushing one's teeth.

I've also become more comfortable with nagging, as long as it's done at least in a neutral tone. Humor is useful, too.

But, as mentioned, the most important thing to do is to just relax. It's a marathon. You win some, you lose some. And your wife, your son's mother, is also expressing affection in a way that seems natural to her. Respect that.
posted by JamesBay at 6:00 PM on July 12, 2018 [11 favorites]

Best answer: I would suggest finding a good family therapist. It’s hard to say who’s “at fault” just reading this from your perspective (though in almost 100% of families it’s no one’s fault but everyone is contributing).. but talking through these issues with an impartial 3rd party who’s seen it all before might really help you. You are probably stuck in behavioral patterns, and you are all holding in a lot of hurt at this point that is affecting all your interactions. But based on the limited information available, here is some of what I’ve noticed:

You are clearly very worried about your son growing up to be self-reliant and respectful. These are good things to worry about. But in your worry you might be accidentally working against this goal... I think that you had good insight when you mentioned that all this conflict is teaching your son the wrong things. It sounds like you are so frustrated, and so focused on these goals for your son, that you do not respect your wife’s parenting, and a part of you does not respect your wife as a person anymore (saying that it’s not in your wife’s psyche to be tough came off as very dismissive to me, for example). I’m pretty sure that this dismissiveness is visible to your son, and putting you in the impossible situation of telling him to be more respectful to someone that he can see you don’t respect yourself.

Your wife might be feeling this distance from you, and putting her effort into building the relationship with your son instead, by doing things for him. Or she might feel lonely and wish someone would care for her, and be trying to show him love the same way. Or she might think that making sure your child never feels want is the best way to make sure they grow up secure and respectful. Maybe she thinks that respect is earned through service rather than toughness. Or none of these! But I’m sure she has motivations for what she’s doing besides just being a naturally weak person.

And the same is true for your son. He might be trying to draw his mother closer, or get your attention. Or he might be perceiving, correctly or not, that his mother enjoys doing these things for him. It’s not necessarily the case that he is trying to be disrespectful. In his stress, he might be alternately reacting to both of you and your conflicting parenting, not consciously playing you off each other. And if he is in fact doing it consciously, it might be a way to try and control this scary situation where your parents fight a lot and are never on the same page, while you are terrified that you are the cause.

Your question was pretty light on how the rest of your family feels about things. This might just be because you don’t want to speak for them, or because your frustration is so heavy in your mind that there’s room for nothing else. But I think your way out of this is through more understanding. Through conversations with each other, hopefully but not necessarily with a therapist too, you might experience these exact same interactions as way less stressful and distressing. And in all likelihood, you will be able to change the way you are all behaving as well.

You and your wife both want happiness for your son. It’s huge that you’re fighting because you both care so much, instead of the opposite. If you look for more positive motivations for each other and hopefully see a professional, you should be able to turn that shared dream into teamwork instead of fighting.
posted by sometamegazelle at 6:02 PM on July 12, 2018 [22 favorites]

When you say he treats her like a servant, do you mean he is rude to her, or that she does a lot of care-taking? Does she agree that the things he asks her to do are things he should be doing for himself? Because if she does not, then aren't you the one treating her like a servant (by unilaterally establishing rules you expect her to enforce)?

I think that your first priority needs to be establishing common parenting guidelines with your wife. Once you have both come to an agreement about what your son needs to be doing vs what should be done for him, you will be more able to present a united parental front.
posted by MFZ at 6:05 PM on July 12, 2018 [2 favorites]

Best answer: I'm not sure if establishing parenting guidelines with your wife is such a good idea, though, based on the current dynamic you describe. In marriages this is not a linear process.

However, I was just returning to say that how you interact with your wife -- their mother -- will largely inform how they interact with women, not whether or not their mother gets them stuff from the fridge.

With that said, I have a zero-tolerance policy for any sort of abusive behavior (hitting) or language (mocking, insulting) towards their mother, and I enforce it (very, very infrequently) if needed, no questions asked.
posted by JamesBay at 6:23 PM on July 12, 2018

The main concern I would have with the dynamic you describe is that historically, girls are taught from an early age to do things for themselves (prepare food, laundry, cleaning tasks, and yes—self care) that boys are not. And vice versa, boys traditionally have been taught different tasks like yard work that girls have not. And not expecting a child to learn to do anything for themselves makes for a terrible future college roommate, partner, friend, or employee.

Perhaps you and your wife can agree that you want your son to grow up well rounded in his abilities, as my husband and I agreed with our daughters. We expect them to contribute to the general well-being of the household and so they learned to make beds, do laundry, and empty the dishwasher as well as mow the lawn, run errands, wash cars. At a certain point you have to understand that you’re not just raising children but training them for adulthood.

I *love* helping my now-teenaged daughters get through life but it’s so much easier because they’re active participants in our household on age-appropriate levels.
posted by padraigin at 6:48 PM on July 12, 2018 [3 favorites]

My son however, needs to be constantly pushed to carry out age-appropriate tasks in the house: brushing his teeth, doing homework, helping himself to food in the fridge.

some people would say that a parent "pushing" a kid to do homework is babying him in a way that is preventing him from maturing. is your wife doing the work for him -- a huge problem -- or just not forcing him to do it when he doesn't choose to? if it's the latter, she's the one pushing him to maturity by allowing him to face the consequences of not doing work, and you are the one holding him back by acting as his surrogate superego so that he doesn't have to develop an internal reminder system.

you don't have to agree with this or be this much of a hardass about child development, of course. few people are, these days. my point is only that the differences between you and your wife are more subjective than you present them. constant "pushing" is the other side of spoiling a kid, and in some ways amounts to the same thing. constantly reminding and pushing is just another, albeit less direct, way of doing things for him.

when he asks for something indulgent, now and then you could try the third option, besides 1. shutting down the request or 2. nagging your wife for indulging it. number 3 is: you could fulfill it yourself. just sometimes, so that he doesn't get the idea that mothers always say yes and fathers always say no. surprise him with flexibility.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:16 PM on July 12, 2018 [7 favorites]

Response by poster: thanks for all the answers thus far! my feeling is that in the short term, looks like i just need to chillax, and let my wife parent the way she wants to. i am indeed aware of the irony that's playing out where he's actually learning to disrespect his spouse as a result of my efforts to make him more self-reliant.

it's actually a relief, in a way, that I only need to worry about my actions.

thanks again!
(but keep em coming if you have something to offer!)
posted by bitteroldman at 8:11 PM on July 12, 2018 [5 favorites]

Why not take a parenting class together? There's actually a lot of research on parenting and child development . You each will probably find things you tweak.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 11:02 PM on July 12, 2018 [1 favorite]

Do you and your wife ever talk about what kind of person you'd like him to be, and what you'd like him to be equipped with when he grows up and leaves home?

Because if you want him, at age 18, to be someone who knows how to look around him, see what needs to be done, recognize what others are doing, and do his part, then that does need to start somewhere. If you want him to know how to cook for himself, clean his space, and generally be independent, that isn't usually knowledge you can import in a quick talk or something: people need practice. When and how that practice needs to become part of his life is the question.

I have no idea whether you're being too strict or she's being too easy, but it sounds like you should at least work on having similar ideas of what your goals are ultimately, and of how you think it's realistic to get there.

(You haven't mentioned anything about cultural differences between you and your wife, or if you both live in a culture that's more permissive towards kids, so I'm assuming that's not at play here.)
posted by trig at 11:48 PM on July 12, 2018 [3 favorites]

I am definitely of the opinion that kids get different things from different parents and that that's actually great and healthy. My spouse and I have a somewhat similar dynamic, and I think my husband would identify strongly with sanka's comment above but here's the thing... sometimes kids need to be pushed to be independent, and sometimes they just need to feel loved and taken care of. Both things are fine and can coexist. When mom's around maybe they get babied a little more, and when dad's around maybe they get more tough love but in the end they get everything they need and that's the important thing.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 6:59 AM on July 13, 2018 [3 favorites]

Could you potentially try to be a little more lenient / show unconditional love in appropriate circumstances? And/or become the 'fun parent' for specific stuff.

I don't have any easy solutions as my kids realize I am more easily manueverable for more; extra requests; tying their shoes for them. My husband shows his affection by consistent fun stuff (e.g., I always read to you for 20 minutes or 3 stories; or I am the person that takes you to the pool a lot) and that helps counterbalance their view of him as the strict guy.

Also, depending on the age of your child needing to constantly remind them may be more developmentally appropriate than you realize. Acknowledging to the kid that the reminders are normal may make it easier for mom to make the kids do the stuff (so it doesn't seem like a personal attack on the kid, just a learning process that's normal).
posted by typecloud at 7:46 AM on July 13, 2018