Calling plant doctors: What's wrong here?
July 9, 2018 5:41 AM Subscribe
You guys were so helpful with my last post, I was hoping you could help me figure out what's wrong with this one.
Some leaves are bleaching. Others are solid green and wrinkly.
It looks like the bottom of the plant has died and is dry and woody, but there are sections at the top are green. As a result, the plant is bizarrely shaped -- I should have trimmed it better.
It's been alive for at least 5 years. It thrived for awhile in my sunny window, and then I did a little redecorating, and kept it by the window, but then the leaves got this dry bleaching.
I took it away from the window, indirect light, and it seems to have had no effect -- negative or positive.
Can you give me an idea of what's going on?
Can I get trim the green and thriving parts down to the woody base again in an effort to get it to grow right?
How can I get the leaves back to a more rich and non-bleached green? It's been awhile, I seem to remember the leaves were different. Is it age?
It's been alive for at least 5 years. It thrived for awhile in my sunny window, and then I did a little redecorating, and kept it by the window, but then the leaves got this dry bleaching.
I took it away from the window, indirect light, and it seems to have had no effect -- negative or positive.
Can you give me an idea of what's going on?
Can I get trim the green and thriving parts down to the woody base again in an effort to get it to grow right?
How can I get the leaves back to a more rich and non-bleached green? It's been awhile, I seem to remember the leaves were different. Is it age?
I'm a brute about plants, so something at that point I would toss out because it's about 90% deceased at this point.
Is it a citrus?
You could repot in a larger pot, with all new soil. Make sure the drainage on the pot is really, really good. Put back in the sunny window. Keep the soil at the just right point of moisture - citrus does not need to be in soggy dirt. And then inspect very, very closely for pests like scale or spider mites, because it looks like an infestation could also be part of the problem.
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:31 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Is it a citrus?
You could repot in a larger pot, with all new soil. Make sure the drainage on the pot is really, really good. Put back in the sunny window. Keep the soil at the just right point of moisture - citrus does not need to be in soggy dirt. And then inspect very, very closely for pests like scale or spider mites, because it looks like an infestation could also be part of the problem.
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:31 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've owned hundreds of houseplants and only let about 4-5 die on my watch. I'm stubborn, know a lot about plants, and like to nurse them back to health.
I would most likely give up in this plant if I were you. It would be challenge for an expert to bring back from 95% dead to full flourishing, and it would take a minimum of three years. Your odds don't seem so great, but then again, no loss to try!
That said:
No, leaves don't senesce (age) that way, and few if any woody plants will age to death in the time you can care for them. If you want to gamble, a repot and prune per flabdabet's suggestion is the way to go. I would not add any fertilizer you see healthy leaves emerging from buds.
As for the bigger cause: it may have been alive for 5 years but I doubt it was thriving even 3 years ago. Plants die slowly, and this one was showing signs if malaise at minimum two years back. Hard to say whether it was too little light (bright windows are only enough for shade-loving plants), poor drainage and soil quality, perhaps a mix of many factors. Kind of hard to say without knowing what kind of tree it was, but it also may have been something that just doesn't want to live permanently indoors (relatively few woody species do).
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:41 AM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
I would most likely give up in this plant if I were you. It would be challenge for an expert to bring back from 95% dead to full flourishing, and it would take a minimum of three years. Your odds don't seem so great, but then again, no loss to try!
That said:
No, leaves don't senesce (age) that way, and few if any woody plants will age to death in the time you can care for them. If you want to gamble, a repot and prune per flabdabet's suggestion is the way to go. I would not add any fertilizer you see healthy leaves emerging from buds.
As for the bigger cause: it may have been alive for 5 years but I doubt it was thriving even 3 years ago. Plants die slowly, and this one was showing signs if malaise at minimum two years back. Hard to say whether it was too little light (bright windows are only enough for shade-loving plants), poor drainage and soil quality, perhaps a mix of many factors. Kind of hard to say without knowing what kind of tree it was, but it also may have been something that just doesn't want to live permanently indoors (relatively few woody species do).
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:41 AM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
Another possibility worth trying is to see if you can use layering to persuade one of the green stems to throw out roots into a new pot, and propagate a new plant from the remains of this one.
posted by flabdablet at 8:01 AM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:01 AM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for all the help! I may try to save this guy -- might as well try, right?
Can you give me an idea if bright light or partial light would be better?
posted by Borborygmus at 8:10 AM on July 9, 2018
Can you give me an idea if bright light or partial light would be better?
posted by Borborygmus at 8:10 AM on July 9, 2018
For an indoor plant that you're trying to promote new growth on, generally the brighter the better, mainly because any indoor setting is almost comically light-deprived compared to what's available in the great outdoors.
posted by flabdablet at 8:20 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 8:20 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
What is it? Different plants have different light and soil needs. I agree with the two other posters that bright light will be best but someone might be able to make soil amendment suggestions if you tell us what it is.
posted by Squeak Attack at 8:44 AM on July 9, 2018
posted by Squeak Attack at 8:44 AM on July 9, 2018
Pretty much agree with the other commenters across the board here.
The main issue is probably nutrient deficiency, especially if you haven't repotted it or changed the soil in the five years you've had it. (Possible contributing factor: mineral build-up in the soil: if you water the plant in place and don't empty any water that drains through the bottom of the pot, all the minerals that are dissolved in the water will accumulate in the soil over time. Eventually this can build up to the point where the plant has trouble absorbing water or nutrients it needs, because the plant can't pull them in against the osmotic pressure caused by the soil minerals. This will happen even faster if you've been fertilizing the plant too, because unused fertilizer minerals also build up.)
There might also be spider mites on it? The grainy, dusty, speckled appearance of the leaves, and the way some of the leaves curl under, in some of the photos, makes me think that spider mites could be present, even though I don't see any actual webbing in the photos.
It might be, hypothetically, possible to resuscitate it, though I agree that unless the plant has tremendous sentimental value, or is extremely rare and difficult/expensive to replace, you're probably best off to discard it and start over with a new plant. It may not hurt to try to revive it, but it's going to take a lot of time and energy, and you're unlikely to wind up with an attractive plant at the end of it all even if you do manage to get it to produce healthy-looking new growth.
Depending on what it is (based on the first photo, I was thinking a fiddle-leaf fig, Ficus lyrata, but then the later photos made me question that, so I have zero confidence in the guess), you might be able to air-layer, but I'd say the first thing to do is give it new soil and probably a slightly larger pot. Pre-bagged "houseplant" mixes tend to hold too much water for large plants; I'd recommend something sold as cactus/succulent soil. Fertilize lightly but regularly, and if at all possible, I'd water the plant in a bathtub or something so that you can flush a lot of water through it, to wash out some of the minerals in the soil and slow down the rate of mineral buildup. (If you have a detachable shower head, you can also mist the leaves with soapy water and then rinse them off with the shower sprayer, which will help with any spider mites that are present.)
I'm guessing that light is probably not your problem, but flabdablet is correct that in general, brighter is better. (I would wait on putting it in direct sun, though, as the plant appears to be very stressed already. Maybe start moving it closer to a window if it starts producing healthier-looking new growth. If spider mites are in fact present, direct sun will make the problem worse very quickly.)
I wouldn't worry about trimming anything until you know the plant is recovering.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:13 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
The main issue is probably nutrient deficiency, especially if you haven't repotted it or changed the soil in the five years you've had it. (Possible contributing factor: mineral build-up in the soil: if you water the plant in place and don't empty any water that drains through the bottom of the pot, all the minerals that are dissolved in the water will accumulate in the soil over time. Eventually this can build up to the point where the plant has trouble absorbing water or nutrients it needs, because the plant can't pull them in against the osmotic pressure caused by the soil minerals. This will happen even faster if you've been fertilizing the plant too, because unused fertilizer minerals also build up.)
There might also be spider mites on it? The grainy, dusty, speckled appearance of the leaves, and the way some of the leaves curl under, in some of the photos, makes me think that spider mites could be present, even though I don't see any actual webbing in the photos.
It might be, hypothetically, possible to resuscitate it, though I agree that unless the plant has tremendous sentimental value, or is extremely rare and difficult/expensive to replace, you're probably best off to discard it and start over with a new plant. It may not hurt to try to revive it, but it's going to take a lot of time and energy, and you're unlikely to wind up with an attractive plant at the end of it all even if you do manage to get it to produce healthy-looking new growth.
Depending on what it is (based on the first photo, I was thinking a fiddle-leaf fig, Ficus lyrata, but then the later photos made me question that, so I have zero confidence in the guess), you might be able to air-layer, but I'd say the first thing to do is give it new soil and probably a slightly larger pot. Pre-bagged "houseplant" mixes tend to hold too much water for large plants; I'd recommend something sold as cactus/succulent soil. Fertilize lightly but regularly, and if at all possible, I'd water the plant in a bathtub or something so that you can flush a lot of water through it, to wash out some of the minerals in the soil and slow down the rate of mineral buildup. (If you have a detachable shower head, you can also mist the leaves with soapy water and then rinse them off with the shower sprayer, which will help with any spider mites that are present.)
I'm guessing that light is probably not your problem, but flabdablet is correct that in general, brighter is better. (I would wait on putting it in direct sun, though, as the plant appears to be very stressed already. Maybe start moving it closer to a window if it starts producing healthier-looking new growth. If spider mites are in fact present, direct sun will make the problem worse very quickly.)
I wouldn't worry about trimming anything until you know the plant is recovering.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 9:13 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for all your advice! I repotted (didn't even know you had to change plant soil!) -- and decided to try layering. (Here's a pic of my setup.) Fingers crossed!
posted by Borborygmus at 2:51 PM on July 10, 2018
posted by Borborygmus at 2:51 PM on July 10, 2018
didn't even know you had to change plant soil
If you feed it properly, you don't. But dead soil won't support plant growth for long.
Root hairs exude very very small quantities of an acid that partially dissolve the minerals the roots encounter, allowing them to absorb mineral nutrients the plant needs. Over time, this tends to make the soil more acid and that makes it harder for the root hairs to exude more.
If the soil is healthy, there are plenty of other processes going on inside it that counterbalance the acids exuded by root hairs. But if it's not - typically because it doesn't have much in the way of humus - then it becomes essentially just a physical support medium for the roots, and the plant has to rely on soluble nutrients supplied along with its irrigation water, much as it would if you were growing it hydroponically. And that's a much fiddlier and more fragile way to try to keep plants healthy than just letting a living soil do it all automatically.
The easiest way to keep a pot plant's soil in reasonable condition is by (a) making sure there's a decent amount of compost incorporated in it from the very beginning and (b) keeping it covered with an organic mulch that will slowly break down into humus over time. For my indoor pot plants, tea leaves and coffee grounds are convenient for that.
And if you're looking for an ultra-cheap and really effective liquid fertilizer for indoor plants: you personally manufacture more of that every day than your plants will ever possibly need. Human urine diluted to about 1 part in 50 makes a really good plant food. Odor-free as well, unless you're using way too much.
posted by flabdablet at 10:43 PM on July 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you feed it properly, you don't. But dead soil won't support plant growth for long.
Root hairs exude very very small quantities of an acid that partially dissolve the minerals the roots encounter, allowing them to absorb mineral nutrients the plant needs. Over time, this tends to make the soil more acid and that makes it harder for the root hairs to exude more.
If the soil is healthy, there are plenty of other processes going on inside it that counterbalance the acids exuded by root hairs. But if it's not - typically because it doesn't have much in the way of humus - then it becomes essentially just a physical support medium for the roots, and the plant has to rely on soluble nutrients supplied along with its irrigation water, much as it would if you were growing it hydroponically. And that's a much fiddlier and more fragile way to try to keep plants healthy than just letting a living soil do it all automatically.
The easiest way to keep a pot plant's soil in reasonable condition is by (a) making sure there's a decent amount of compost incorporated in it from the very beginning and (b) keeping it covered with an organic mulch that will slowly break down into humus over time. For my indoor pot plants, tea leaves and coffee grounds are convenient for that.
And if you're looking for an ultra-cheap and really effective liquid fertilizer for indoor plants: you personally manufacture more of that every day than your plants will ever possibly need. Human urine diluted to about 1 part in 50 makes a really good plant food. Odor-free as well, unless you're using way too much.
posted by flabdablet at 10:43 PM on July 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I layered! It seems to have taken. But both plants started looking weak again. I checked the leaves. They feel gritty. Yes, likely spider mites.
I threw out the old plant. It was really dried out in the trunk. Hopefully I can save this repropagated one by cleaning the leaves more often.
posted by Borborygmus at 3:13 PM on November 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
I threw out the old plant. It was really dried out in the trunk. Hopefully I can save this repropagated one by cleaning the leaves more often.
posted by Borborygmus at 3:13 PM on November 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
The WikiHow article on controlling spider mites is pretty sound.
posted by flabdablet at 2:02 AM on November 7, 2018
posted by flabdablet at 2:02 AM on November 7, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
Probably more the age of the soil in the pot than the plant itself; it might just have sucked out all the available goodness, and is now somewhat nutrient deficient.
If that were my little green friend, I'd re-pot it in something a little bigger, with the existing root ball surrounded by soil richly augmented with well-aged compost. I'd also use compost tea to water it with. And I'd keep an eye out for buds further down the branches, and cut branches back to just above what looks like the second or third lowest viable bud; one at a time, though, waiting until the bud I've just cut back to actually starts throwing out a new stem before cutting back another old one, so as not to shock it too much.
posted by flabdablet at 7:23 AM on July 9, 2018 [3 favorites]