Which is the most ethical: Taxi/Uber/Lyft/Juno/Curb/Etc.
June 26, 2018 9:06 PM   Subscribe

I'm in the midst of a bit of traveling for work. What is the most ethical way to get driven from point A to point B (assume public transit is not an option). I assume it depends on location, I'm currently in Houston, but would like to know your thoughts more generally. For example, I know there are more regulations on taxis, but are the working conditions/take home pay/etc. for drivers actually any better?

I'm looking for a bit more than the gut level reaction of NOT UBER; e.g. in NYC, the medallion owners don't always treat the drivers well either.
posted by lab.beetle to Travel & Transportation (21 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
I am not a big rideshare user so my data is pretty incomplete, but talking to drivers the general consensus has been that they like Lyft over Uber. Some of that was from when Uber didn't allow tipping though, which probably had something to do with it.
posted by quaking fajita at 9:20 PM on June 26, 2018


Here in Southern California, I always ask the Lyft driver whether they drive for Uber also and what they think about them. Boy, are they ever candid. I have been told by multiple drivers that Uber takes about half of their fares; Lyft takes about a third. As far as I can tell, the price to me as a rider is basically the same.
posted by pH Indicating Socks at 9:20 PM on June 26, 2018 [5 favorites]


NOT UBER.

In all seriousness, the ownership is misogynist and abusive, they killed an innocent person with a drone in Arizona, they work to circumvent the law, they fund identity thieves.

In general, local taxi companies keep the money in the local economy and usually obey the law, including having some sort of legal complaint mechanism to deal with problems. Yes, some taxi owners don't treat the drivers well -- none of the gig economy companies treat the drivers well.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 9:22 PM on June 26, 2018 [18 favorites]


Well consider this: Every taxi driver COULD drive for a gig economy company if they wanted to.
posted by aubilenon at 9:51 PM on June 26, 2018 [4 favorites]


I use Flywheel, but in Houston I use Lyft, since the city is too spread out to get cabs regularly. I’ve even gotten kicked out at the airport because my destination was just outside city limits. (But closer to the airport than most of the city)
posted by politikitty at 10:22 PM on June 26, 2018


When you're up in Austin, use Ride|Austin. It's the homegrown, nonprofit, charitable alternative to Uber and Lyft. It gives a higher percentage of the fare to the driver, costs less per mile, and keeps your rideshare dollars local.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 11:14 PM on June 26, 2018 [9 favorites]


I was in your position previously and used taxis when I was not renting cars. I mostly rented cars, though, because I was on my own schedule for work and that make it a lot easier to do stuff.

When I didn't rent cars, I used taxis. Here is why:

Taxi drivers drive as their primary occupation, not as a second job. They need this money in a more immediate way than Lyft/Uber/whatever drivers, they are more professional, and they are more likely to be part of a union or have some collective bargaining rights.

Taxi drivers carry insurance. If you get hurt in a taxi, you're covered. If you're hurt in an Uber, you're fucked - Uber insists that the burden to carry appropriate insurance is on the driver and they don't supply it. The drivers can't afford to do this, so they either assume they won't have an accident or they do stuff like refuse to pick up fares with children. A taxi driver won't blink about kids, and more taxis are able to handle wheelchairs. Even if neither of these describe your situation, I'd rather support a business that makes these things available than one that doesn't.

I essentially see Uber and Lyft as a Wal-Mart style operation intending to undercut prices for rides, force everyone else out of business, and then cut wages for their drivers even further once they're the only game in town.
posted by bile and syntax at 5:46 AM on June 27, 2018 [15 favorites]


I use taxis only for the reasons bile and syntax gives. Also, progressives have fought like hell for protections for workers and consumers. Of course these protections make stuff cost more - that’s the reason conservatives give for opposing them. And these protections are a big part of the reason why taxis cost more. As a progressive, I use taxis to put my money where my mouth is.

I mean, clothes are a lot cheaper if they’re made by nine-year-old girls in third world countries. Alternative ride companies work on the same principle. Its easy to mistreat desperate people. But I don’t have to support it.
posted by FencingGal at 6:04 AM on June 27, 2018 [7 favorites]


There have been concerns raised by disability-rights group that ride-sharing companies do not in any way adequately provide transportation for people with physical disabilities, and that by forcing out taxis (which are at least required by law to serve disabled people), the ride-sharing companies are creating additional access barriers for disabled people.
posted by lazuli at 6:38 AM on June 27, 2018 [8 favorites]


Probably not for not for Houston but when I was in DC for work I got everywhere on bike share and Subway and walking. It was a fun way to get around and see the city. In a pinch even at home I do use Lyft. I don't think it's especially ethical but it's Not Uber.
posted by latkes at 7:08 AM on June 27, 2018


The points made above about insurance are somewhere between misleading and mistaken. I can't speak on Uber, but Lyft protects their drivers up to $1,000,000 of liability insurance when they have a passenger and variable amounts for other conditions, depending on whether they are en route to a pickup, or just driving with the app on.

The point about better skills/training for ride share drivers is fair though, as a cab driver in Chicago, for instance should be well-versed in how to handle the "lower" sections of downtown streets like Wacker Drive and Michigan Avenue whereas a ride share driver may be lost when they get underground and GPS craps out. If you live in an area with spotty GPS coverage, you may be better off trusting career drivers than a moonlighting person with GPS and an app.

As of April this year, Lyft is going carbon neutral, so that's a point in their favor above Uber, as well as standard cabs. You might also give some thought as to the relative environmental footprint of sharing a ride home with a few people as opposed to having a cab drive you by yourself. (Though there is also an argument to be made that low priced ride share rides siphon off riders from public transit, which is a net loss for the environment.)

Female friends of mine are of two minds about ride share. Certainly, the history of assaults with Uber drivers and the company's awful response to them are a major concern. On the other hand, if you flag down a ride on the street with a taxi driver, it may be hard to identify the driver later if something untoward happens, whereas with a ride share, you can absolutely confirm that Driver Z picked you up at Point A and drove you to Point B, using Route M, at Time X:XX. (Perhaps the solution to that is as simple as identifying a cab company you trust and calling in your rides with one of the apps that supports cabs, so that you can have the same tracking.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:15 AM on June 27, 2018 [3 favorites]


I went from vocal in my disdain for ride shares to, in a financial pinch, ending up driving for Lyft for a while.

I will say that while I'm still conflicted about aspects of ride sharing, as it affects cab drivers among other things, there are aspects I did not really anticipate that seem like legitimate societal benefits. I met working people who were able to get better jobs in neighborhoods farther away from their homes than they reasonably could have gotten to and from in a reasonable time with public transit or at an affordable cost with cabs. I met working dads who like ride share because it meant they could get to work in 15 minutes instead of an hour, which meant they had time to see their kids between jobs. I met single women in lower-income neighborhoods who were grateful to be able to afford their own ride home when a date didn't go well, rather than having to depend on a guy they were brushing off to drive them home from an area that didn't get regular public transit service.

I would not pretend to be able to present a complete analysis, but I would say that my anecdotal experience indicates that having an affordable way to get their own rides is a huge thing to working and lower-income people. And that's something that seems to go largely unremarked upon in the larger (and legitimate) debates over how the drivers are treated and how the industry affects cabs & taxis.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:26 AM on June 27, 2018 [13 favorites]


And one more thing: drinkers looooove ride shares. Does this mean fewer drunk drivers or just more people feeling emboldened to get drunk? Research isn't sure yet, but it's being looked into. It may depend on the city.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:33 AM on June 27, 2018 [4 favorites]


I can't agree with lazuli hard enough about accessibility. I will also note that drivers I've spoken to vastly prefer Lyft to Uber.
posted by ferret branca at 8:51 AM on June 27, 2018


Curb links you to NYC yellow cabs (and licensed cabbies in other cities), so technically that is probably best because there's more accountability, more of the money going to the drivers, more regulations in place than the come-drive-for-us apps, and keeps the yellow cab industry from going under (and taking their drives with it). Though in NYC all ride-share drivers have to be licensed to be a cab driver, so that advantage may be small.

Here in NYC, when I talk to drivers, their order of preference is overwhelmingly Juno>Lyft, with Uber at the bottom.
posted by Mchelly at 9:48 AM on June 27, 2018 [1 favorite]


Yes, seconding Mchelly that every app driver in NYC I’ve talked to says that they vastly prefer Juno but that not enough people use it yet, then Lyft, and Uber as a last resort.
posted by sometamegazelle at 11:12 AM on June 27, 2018


Taxi drivers drive as their primary occupation, not as a second job. They need this money in a more immediate way than Lyft/Uber/whatever drivers, they are more professional

Counterpoints: traveling in San Francisco recently, and three of the four drivers were pretty clearly full-time taxi-like drivers, with one guy traveling around coastal California to follow demand (he left a college town once college was done because there were so few fairs). With enough population size and density, rideshare driver can be a full-time job. And probably because of that, those drivers were very professional. This was a small sample of a much larger population, but even in smaller cities, drivers have generally been professional and polite.

Also, just because a job isn't a full-time or primary job doesn't make it any less critical - some people need additional income that they aren't getting from a primary job, either because of uncertainty of hours, or because it doesn't pay well enough to cover all their expenses. Many people have multiple jobs for this exact reason, and being able to set their own schedule (though depending on requests for rides) can be very helpful for someone trying to pull together more money each week.

All that said, I'm a staunch Lyft supporter (in my limited use) because of the problems with Uber as highlighted by Homeboy Trouble.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:08 PM on June 27, 2018 [3 favorites]


Different cities have very different taxi cultures so no clue what is up in Houston. In DC I had several horrible experiences with cabs ranging from creepy “can I come into you apartment with you?” requests to straight up racism. Cab drivers regularly broke local laws and my final straw was after I had a really bad experience with a cab driver who was clearly drunk/high with broken seatbelts who ran a few stop signs (DC cab commission got to my official complaint around 3 years later).

Things I like about Lyft: women are safe enough to work for Lyft (cab drivers have the highest on the job murder rate of any profession by a huge margin, and in most jurisdictions less than 5% of cab drivers are women), I’ve had several deaf drivers (tough gig to get a job ad a cab driver if you’re deaf), and most cab companies are totally crap to their drivers (no benefits, paying a “kitty” to the company in order to drive, virtually no unionization).
posted by forkisbetter at 4:48 PM on June 27, 2018 [2 favorites]


I avoided using rideshare services for several years, preferring to support taxis, but eventually caved and started using Lyft, mostly because it could sometimes take hours to get a cab, and Lyft showed up in about 5 mins.

I now drive for Lyft, and Uber when it's slow. Lyft is (mostly) better than Uber to work for. The other companies are not available in my city as yet.

I have a friend who has been a pro taxi driver for decades, and from what I hear, the quality of cab work can be very different in different cities.

Part time rideshare drivers aren't doing it as a hobby, they're doing it because they need money, often desperately!

If you're concerned about ethics, tip your driver, and give them a 5 star review. Anything below 5 stars is considered a bad review. I wouldn't give anyone less than 5 stars unless I thought they should be fired.
posted by ethical_caligula at 5:48 AM on June 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


. A taxi driver won't blink about kids, and more taxis are able to handle wheelchairs.

Definitely not true across the board.
posted by TravellingCari at 10:05 AM on June 29, 2018 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: I took taxis, and did ask the driver. He said that he rents a yellow cab for 2, 24 hour days each week, which is the most profitable, but requires a full 24 hour rental. On the weekends, he drives for both Lyft and Uber. Lyft is better for both the customer and driver in his opinion, but he gets jobs more reliably through uber. That is to say - he would prefer people use Lyft.

Thank you all for your input!
posted by lab.beetle at 3:16 PM on June 29, 2018 [1 favorite]


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