Sober-minded
June 4, 2018 9:39 PM Subscribe
Am I drinking “too much”? The science is too confusing and I don’t know if this is normal or not.
Since I was in college I’ve had the typical drinking patterns of someone in their early 20s— don’t drink during the week (barring special occasions) and have 3-4 drinks on Friday or Saturday night, sometimes more.
In my mid-20s I got a “real job” and started getting more interested in wine and spirits. I go to tastings and buy wine that I like. My boyfriend and I have started pairing food and wine more often and when not in the mood to cook frequently eat a dinner of bread, cheeses, vegetables and wine (one 5 oz. glass per). It’s become a ritual and something I enjoy, because I like food and eating and tasting the complexities, and I like the relaxation. On the weekends I rarely have more than one drink per day, though sometimes an aperitif and then a glass of wine at dinner or some similar configuration.
I think this is slightly in excess of the guidelines for women in America. But there are so many varying guidelines and such mixed conventional wisdom on whether moderate drinking is killing me and my brain cells or not. Any perspective or clarity on this?
I’ve asked other wine enthusiasts and I’ve gotten crazy answers, up to a woman telling me that she and her husband split a bottle of wine every night. (If that were me I’d probably be in the gutter... ) I’ve noticed that these days my attitude toward alcohol is different... on the one hand, I don’t feel like I have to have a HELL of a time every weekend, so my habits are more moderate overall. I can turn down a drink at a party if I don’t feel like it whereas in the past I would have almost always gone for it. On the other hand, I’ve read that drinking rates are down in general (even in Europe!) and daily drinking is getting rarer and rarer. What’s the deal? Am I headed somewhere problematic, or is this is pretty mundane lifestyle?
I’m OK with small amounts of medical risk— after all, I still eat hot dogs, etc.— but then again I don’t eat hot dogs every day. So not sure what to think. Am I or am I not in conformance with the guidelines?
Since I was in college I’ve had the typical drinking patterns of someone in their early 20s— don’t drink during the week (barring special occasions) and have 3-4 drinks on Friday or Saturday night, sometimes more.
In my mid-20s I got a “real job” and started getting more interested in wine and spirits. I go to tastings and buy wine that I like. My boyfriend and I have started pairing food and wine more often and when not in the mood to cook frequently eat a dinner of bread, cheeses, vegetables and wine (one 5 oz. glass per). It’s become a ritual and something I enjoy, because I like food and eating and tasting the complexities, and I like the relaxation. On the weekends I rarely have more than one drink per day, though sometimes an aperitif and then a glass of wine at dinner or some similar configuration.
I think this is slightly in excess of the guidelines for women in America. But there are so many varying guidelines and such mixed conventional wisdom on whether moderate drinking is killing me and my brain cells or not. Any perspective or clarity on this?
I’ve asked other wine enthusiasts and I’ve gotten crazy answers, up to a woman telling me that she and her husband split a bottle of wine every night. (If that were me I’d probably be in the gutter... ) I’ve noticed that these days my attitude toward alcohol is different... on the one hand, I don’t feel like I have to have a HELL of a time every weekend, so my habits are more moderate overall. I can turn down a drink at a party if I don’t feel like it whereas in the past I would have almost always gone for it. On the other hand, I’ve read that drinking rates are down in general (even in Europe!) and daily drinking is getting rarer and rarer. What’s the deal? Am I headed somewhere problematic, or is this is pretty mundane lifestyle?
I’m OK with small amounts of medical risk— after all, I still eat hot dogs, etc.— but then again I don’t eat hot dogs every day. So not sure what to think. Am I or am I not in conformance with the guidelines?
No worries at all. You are drinking next to nothing.
posted by porn in the woods at 9:59 PM on June 4, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 9:59 PM on June 4, 2018 [13 favorites]
You might discuss the risks with your healthcare provider; your individual risk and health history will drive some of the "what's too much" answer. The guidelines are just that; you are a unique individual. The American Cancer Society says a drink a day for a woman is ok. The American Society of Clinical Oncology says alcohol is largely underrated as a risk factor in the US. TL;DR talk to your healthcare team about your risk factors, then decide, and do make sure your drinking doesn't get heavier over time. One a day might be fine for you, or it may not.
posted by OneSmartMonkey at 10:04 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by OneSmartMonkey at 10:04 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Just want to check -
If you and your boyfriend are opening a bottle of wine, are you really just having half the bottle in an evening and then saving the rest for another day? Or do you eat and drink out every night?
Also, are you no longer doing the heavier drinking on the weekends?
posted by metahawk at 10:23 PM on June 4, 2018
If you and your boyfriend are opening a bottle of wine, are you really just having half the bottle in an evening and then saving the rest for another day? Or do you eat and drink out every night?
Also, are you no longer doing the heavier drinking on the weekends?
posted by metahawk at 10:23 PM on June 4, 2018
I’ve asked other wine enthusiasts and I’ve gotten crazy answers, up to a woman telling me that she and her husband split a bottle of wine every night. (If that were me I’d probably be in the gutter... )
Crazy? Uh, you know that a bottle is a smidge over 2 glasses per person, right?
Look, why exactly are you so worried about your alcohol consumption? Are you worried that it's a slippery slope to alcoholism because you're enjoying wine? (You don't indicate that you are interested in slurping down bottle after bottle until you fall on the floor, so this seems unlikely.) Are you worried about being judged for having a glass of wine with dinner every night? (This is not a lot of alcohol, you're fine, anyone who has something to say about it should mind their own damn business. )
posted by desuetude at 10:36 PM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Crazy? Uh, you know that a bottle is a smidge over 2 glasses per person, right?
Look, why exactly are you so worried about your alcohol consumption? Are you worried that it's a slippery slope to alcoholism because you're enjoying wine? (You don't indicate that you are interested in slurping down bottle after bottle until you fall on the floor, so this seems unlikely.) Are you worried about being judged for having a glass of wine with dinner every night? (This is not a lot of alcohol, you're fine, anyone who has something to say about it should mind their own damn business. )
posted by desuetude at 10:36 PM on June 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Half a bottle a day and I’d be quite drunk. Crazy relative to my ability :)
I’m worried largely because of the wildly varying public health information on the topic of the health risks of drinking. Also because as much as I enjoy it, my sense of reality is in fact affected.
Yes, we drink half the bottle a day (sometimes boyfriend has a second half glass, so it splits it down the middle). We take two days to finish a bottle except maybe a couple times in 6 months that we have had a bottle in one day.
Yes, no longer drinking more heavily on the weekends. I’d say 2 drinks a day is the max on the weekend, but largely 1 per day even on the weekend.
See; I agree with most of you all that this is basically nothing. But public health messaging on alcohol has gotten quite hysterical of late (or more informed, depending on your perspective).
posted by stoneandstar at 10:58 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
I’m worried largely because of the wildly varying public health information on the topic of the health risks of drinking. Also because as much as I enjoy it, my sense of reality is in fact affected.
Yes, we drink half the bottle a day (sometimes boyfriend has a second half glass, so it splits it down the middle). We take two days to finish a bottle except maybe a couple times in 6 months that we have had a bottle in one day.
Yes, no longer drinking more heavily on the weekends. I’d say 2 drinks a day is the max on the weekend, but largely 1 per day even on the weekend.
See; I agree with most of you all that this is basically nothing. But public health messaging on alcohol has gotten quite hysterical of late (or more informed, depending on your perspective).
posted by stoneandstar at 10:58 PM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
IANAD but this seems in line with the glass of wine a day many people drink in those famously healthy Mediterranean island areas so it’s hard to imagine how this would be a problem.
I’d say that if you’re happy with your consumption levels and you’re healthy, don’t worry about the ever-changing health guidelines. It’s not like moderate consumption of alcohol is one of those things that will slowly kill you with no warning. You’d have other issues along the way that would be warning signs, like elevated blood sugar, weight gain, etc.
posted by lunasol at 11:24 PM on June 4, 2018
I’d say that if you’re happy with your consumption levels and you’re healthy, don’t worry about the ever-changing health guidelines. It’s not like moderate consumption of alcohol is one of those things that will slowly kill you with no warning. You’d have other issues along the way that would be warning signs, like elevated blood sugar, weight gain, etc.
posted by lunasol at 11:24 PM on June 4, 2018
Best answer: There was a recent rebuttal to that doom-mongering coverage that you may be interested in. What you're describing sounds like "light to moderate" drinking, and that article argues the health effects of that level of drinking are actually pretty equivocal overall.
posted by en forme de poire at 11:26 PM on June 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 11:26 PM on June 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
Best answer: I'm a former problem drinker and I tend towards assuming that if a person is asking if they're drinking too much, they're probably drinking too much - but the amount you're drinking sounds conservative and reasonable to me even with those biases in mind.
If it's not causing problems in your life (i.e. if you're only worried because media/health reporting says you maybe should be worried, rather than because the amount you're drinking is causing you any health or behavioural issues), carry on enjoying alcohol responsibly and in moderation (because this sounds like exactly what you're doing).
posted by terretu at 12:23 AM on June 5, 2018 [7 favorites]
If it's not causing problems in your life (i.e. if you're only worried because media/health reporting says you maybe should be worried, rather than because the amount you're drinking is causing you any health or behavioural issues), carry on enjoying alcohol responsibly and in moderation (because this sounds like exactly what you're doing).
posted by terretu at 12:23 AM on June 5, 2018 [7 favorites]
Even half a bottle of wine a night is only a bit over two drinks. Yeah that's more than the guidelines say is optimal, but it's hardly crazy—tons of people drink that much and lead normal, healthy lives. This isn't some kind of cliff, where once you go the eensiest bit past one drink per day you're going to immediately fall to your doom. It's a very gradual slope of unhealthiness, with people drinking zero to one drinks per day at the top, and the folks who are polishing off a fifth of Smirnoff or crushing a 30-rack of Natty Light every evening just so they can sleep at night down at the bottom. You're fine, don't worry.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:10 AM on June 5, 2018
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:10 AM on June 5, 2018
Basically, I would only start to get seriously worried if I realized that in the last couple of weeks I had had a bottle of wine (or equivalent) all to myself almost every day. That would be when I would say to myself, "Self, we need to cut this out before it becomes a real problem."
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:14 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:14 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
There is a pretty easy way to check if you are addicted. Stop drinking for a month, cold turkey. Keep an eye out for withdrawal symptoms and be aware of how closely you are counting those 30 days.
If you are just wondering if drinking that specific amount is unhealthy, then you should just look to the numbers. It sounds like the numbers say you are above the suggested amount, so yes, it is unhealthy . How unhealthy ? That could be debated, but I think it is worth your time to face what you are doing honestly.
If the idea of a 30 day break makes you nervous and uncomfortable, that might be worth considering as well.
posted by Oceanic Trench at 3:17 AM on June 5, 2018 [8 favorites]
If you are just wondering if drinking that specific amount is unhealthy, then you should just look to the numbers. It sounds like the numbers say you are above the suggested amount, so yes, it is unhealthy . How unhealthy ? That could be debated, but I think it is worth your time to face what you are doing honestly.
If the idea of a 30 day break makes you nervous and uncomfortable, that might be worth considering as well.
posted by Oceanic Trench at 3:17 AM on June 5, 2018 [8 favorites]
Best answer: As I understand it, when the UK guidelines were revised a year or two ago, what they did was examine the evidence, try to identify what alcohol consumption would lead to a 1% increase in mortality (compared to a non-drinker), and label that as ‘moderate’ drinking. So if you drink a bit less, you might have a 0.8% increased risk, and if you drink a bit more, it might be 1.2%. But it doesn’t rocket upwards as soon you go a glass or two over the recommended drinking threshold.
I think it could probably be regarded in the same category as ‘try to eat five portions of fruit and vegetable a day’ — good advice that we should try to stick to as part of a healthy lifestyle. But it gets conflated with idea of problem drinking. Alcohol is somewhat unhealthy if you drink slightly too much of it. Also alcohol abuse is an incredibly serious problem that destroys lives. But the two things are different issues, and drinking a glass of wine a day, even if it is slightly unhealthy, doesn’t mean you’re slipping towards alcoholism.
(and it’s not entirely clear that the amount you’re drinking is bad for you anyway)
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 4:41 AM on June 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
I think it could probably be regarded in the same category as ‘try to eat five portions of fruit and vegetable a day’ — good advice that we should try to stick to as part of a healthy lifestyle. But it gets conflated with idea of problem drinking. Alcohol is somewhat unhealthy if you drink slightly too much of it. Also alcohol abuse is an incredibly serious problem that destroys lives. But the two things are different issues, and drinking a glass of wine a day, even if it is slightly unhealthy, doesn’t mean you’re slipping towards alcoholism.
(and it’s not entirely clear that the amount you’re drinking is bad for you anyway)
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 4:41 AM on June 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
I've always thought of alcohol as fairly harmless when used in moderation and awareness, which it sounds like you are doing.
However. Recently I heard this NPR story about the link between alcohol and cancer and it freaked me out enough that I haven't had a single drink since. Related.
I expect that eventually I'll drink again but with more caution than before - and I was already cautious...
posted by bunderful at 5:21 AM on June 5, 2018
However. Recently I heard this NPR story about the link between alcohol and cancer and it freaked me out enough that I haven't had a single drink since. Related.
I expect that eventually I'll drink again but with more caution than before - and I was already cautious...
posted by bunderful at 5:21 AM on June 5, 2018
Best answer: The guidelines for women in the U.S. are approximately half what they are for men which is from a dietary guideline, not a full-scale risk profile based on risks associated specifically with alcohol. The consideration is largely based on calorie consumption as part of a balanced diet and not based on increased risk specifically related to alcoholic consumption. Here's are quotes from the guidelines:
"If alcohol is consumed, it should be in moderation—up to one drink per day for women and up to two drinks per day for men—and only by adults of legal drinking age. For those who choose to drink, moderate alcohol consumption can be incorporated into the calorie limits of most healthy eating patterns."
"Alcohol is not a component of the USDA Food Patterns. Thus, if alcohol is consumed, the calories from alcohol should be accounted for so that the limits on calories for other uses and total calories are not exceeded (see the Other Dietary Components section of Chapter 1. Key Elements of Healthy Eating Patterns for further discussion of limits on alcohol and calories for other uses within healthy eating patterns)."
So - the discrepancy between men and women is not to do with the ability for your body to process alcohol, it's to do with caloric intake that is higher for men than it is for women. In many countries, the alcohol limits are the same or closer for men and women. So as long as you're meeting your personal goals there, and have no specific issues that alcohol are triggering, I would take the dietary guidelines with a (pun intended) grain of salt.
posted by notorious medium at 5:47 AM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
"If alcohol is consumed, it should be in moderation—up to one drink per day for women and up to two drinks per day for men—and only by adults of legal drinking age. For those who choose to drink, moderate alcohol consumption can be incorporated into the calorie limits of most healthy eating patterns."
"Alcohol is not a component of the USDA Food Patterns. Thus, if alcohol is consumed, the calories from alcohol should be accounted for so that the limits on calories for other uses and total calories are not exceeded (see the Other Dietary Components section of Chapter 1. Key Elements of Healthy Eating Patterns for further discussion of limits on alcohol and calories for other uses within healthy eating patterns)."
So - the discrepancy between men and women is not to do with the ability for your body to process alcohol, it's to do with caloric intake that is higher for men than it is for women. In many countries, the alcohol limits are the same or closer for men and women. So as long as you're meeting your personal goals there, and have no specific issues that alcohol are triggering, I would take the dietary guidelines with a (pun intended) grain of salt.
posted by notorious medium at 5:47 AM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm a recovering alcoholic, so I'm super sensitive to these things, and I think you're fine.
posted by Ruki at 6:48 AM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Ruki at 6:48 AM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
That seems about as harmless as it comes.
posted by Making You Bored For Science at 6:51 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Making You Bored For Science at 6:51 AM on June 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm a social drinker, I used to write about drinks for a blog, and my wife and I are friends with a number of hospitality workers here in DC. I would not consider one drink a day a problem level of drinking. Regularly consuming two drinks a day and calling it only one drink, however, could indicate a problem, so the first thing to do is be honest with yourself. I think the fact you already turn down drinks is illuminating, and if you're really only having one glass of wine and a bottle lasts the two of you two nights, then I don't think you have cause for alarm.
Personally I'd be concerned about my own drinking if I regularly had three or more drinks in a day, or if I had frequent binges (say, five or more drinks in one day). Only you can determine your own limits, but if you're OK with a zero-drink day (or several in a row) and you don't "need" a drink to function, that amount of drinking sounds reasonable to me. If you feel that it's affecting you, either in terms of dependence or other symptoms, then pay closer attention to what happens to you when you drink, and what happens if you consciously take a break from drinking for a week or a month.
posted by fedward at 7:19 AM on June 5, 2018
Personally I'd be concerned about my own drinking if I regularly had three or more drinks in a day, or if I had frequent binges (say, five or more drinks in one day). Only you can determine your own limits, but if you're OK with a zero-drink day (or several in a row) and you don't "need" a drink to function, that amount of drinking sounds reasonable to me. If you feel that it's affecting you, either in terms of dependence or other symptoms, then pay closer attention to what happens to you when you drink, and what happens if you consciously take a break from drinking for a week or a month.
posted by fedward at 7:19 AM on June 5, 2018
I have recently done some thinking about this myself since I saw the study that's been going around that says having more than 5 drinks per week is harmful. I found it pretty compelling though ymmv. For what it's worth I have found that tracking my drinking and limiting it to 5 drinks per week has had a positive effect on my overall relationship with alcohol. I've gotten more selective about what I drink and enjoy it more.
posted by ferret branca at 7:22 AM on June 5, 2018
posted by ferret branca at 7:22 AM on June 5, 2018
If your worry is alcoholism, I'd look at two things: can you skip a day, a couple days, a week? And does the amount creep up at all, even slowly and within whatever guidelines?
posted by kapers at 8:17 AM on June 5, 2018
posted by kapers at 8:17 AM on June 5, 2018
Response by poster: Thanks everyone, good reality check. I don’t have a lot of friends who drink and growing up adults around me didn’t drink (most of them were ex-binge drinkers) so my relationship with alcohol is largely intellectual, and thus I’m prone to second-guess myself.
posted by stoneandstar at 8:57 AM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 8:57 AM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'll join the chorus of those saying that what you describe doesn't seem AT ALL excessive to me.
My wife and also like to cook and enjoy wine, and until around the first of the year we probably split a bottle of wine 5 nights a week -- so much more than you -- and we didn't really see that as too much booze, either. That level of consumption is pretty banal in our circle of friends, to be honest.
However, we're older than you -- late 40s -- so at the start of the year we both stepped back a bit, because at our age getting traction vs. weight gain is tough, and alcohol is empty calories. Other than being a bit thinner, it's made no real difference to us.
Well, that's no quite true. Now we're no longer what my UK friends call "pub fit." Before, we could have a drink or two before dinner, split wine at dinner, and perhaps have a cocktail after, and not feel awful the next morning.
That is no longer the case. Ugh.
posted by uberchet at 12:35 PM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
My wife and also like to cook and enjoy wine, and until around the first of the year we probably split a bottle of wine 5 nights a week -- so much more than you -- and we didn't really see that as too much booze, either. That level of consumption is pretty banal in our circle of friends, to be honest.
However, we're older than you -- late 40s -- so at the start of the year we both stepped back a bit, because at our age getting traction vs. weight gain is tough, and alcohol is empty calories. Other than being a bit thinner, it's made no real difference to us.
Well, that's no quite true. Now we're no longer what my UK friends call "pub fit." Before, we could have a drink or two before dinner, split wine at dinner, and perhaps have a cocktail after, and not feel awful the next morning.
That is no longer the case. Ugh.
posted by uberchet at 12:35 PM on June 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by pombe at 9:50 PM on June 4, 2018 [1 favorite]