Dog Filter: Intermittent Clothes Pulling

May 22, 2018 4:36 PM

My 7 year old rescue dog Huggy has been with me for more than two years now, with big thanks to Metafilter who helped me with all kinds of new dog owner advice! I'm now puzzled by a very occasional trait of pulling on clothes. Never me, never predictably, and not aggressive. But still disturbing. I prefer not to muzzle her in public, but maybe I should?

This happened the first time a little over a year ago. A friend stopped by to drop something off and didn't have time to sit and ooh and aah at Huggy's toys as she normally would. When she didn't react to her obvious hints, Huggy grabbed her trouser cuff and tried to move her to the couch. I said "leave it" and "go to bed" and she obeyed. That was the first time.

Some months later, another friend was visiting and again Huggy tried to herd her to the couch. This time, no mouthing, just pushing with her head on the back of her legs. Again, a "go to bed" resolved the issue and it didn't repeat.

Neither friend felt at all threatened and her behaviour wasn't aggressive.

This morning, we were out for our morning walk and a stranger asked if he could pet her. This happens a lot, she's a very smiley dog. She loves to be petted, so I generally say yes if it seems they are used to dogs. He scratched her on the head and went to move away, and she took the hem of his shorts in her mouth and tugged playfully. He jumped a mile and definitely wasn't happy-- me either-- but she clearly wasn't aggressive and didn't scratch the skin at all. So he let it go. Again, when I said "leave it" she dropped the hem immediately.

What worries me is she's big and as you can see from the pictures, she's visibly a Rottie X (50% rottweiler, according to the dog dna test) and it really scares people if she mouths their clothes. I don't want to muzzle her outside because looking like her means everyone would avoid interaction and she's such a very social dog-- people are her jam and she loves them. But on the other hand I don't know what would happen if she did it to someone who completely freaked or hit her or insisted she had bitten them.

People pet her every day, and I have no idea what made her mouth in these three cases. How do I train against a behaviour which happens only once in a very long while, and which she stops immediately when I tell her "no"?

She has never done it to me. If I'm wearing a skirt when I come home, she likes to bury her head in the skirt while I pet her, but this is the closest she's ever come.

As background, she has pretty severe arthritis and is on tramadol daily. She's walked 3-4 times a day, a minimum of 90 minutes per day, and generally more like 120 minutes. She doesn't play with puzzle toys (bored and shows no interest) and is rarely (and only accidentally) left alone for more than 5 hours. Other dogs are a no go. We had a foster and she was so caught up in guarding me that it was unpleasant for everyone.

Suggestions?

posted by frumiousb to Pets & Animals (17 answers total)

I have a young Labrador who I would consider "mouthy" in the same way your dog is - he will nibble and tug on my sleeve or hand if he wants to direct me toward something he wants. He likes to walk next to me gently "holding" my fingers in his mouth. He never goes downstairs to go outside without at least two toys in his mouth (which he drops at the door and picks up when he comes back in). He'll nibble on our neighbor, too, who is one of his favorite people.

I just figure that hey, he's a retriever - it's natural for him to use his mouth to communicate this way. He's never aggressive, in fact, he rarely barks at all. Maybe it's just your dog trying to communicate with you.
posted by summerstorm at 5:18 PM on May 22, 2018 [2 favorites]

Best answer: She is adorable! There's a couple of ways you can approach this. One is, train her to do a "be petted" behavior-- to stand/sit still and calm while someone pets her/handles her (this is also useful for vet trips!) and shape the behavior to allow, say, tail wagging, but going for clothing gets a "no". Decide what qualifies as "good behavior" and stick to it.

Second is do what you've been doing, which is telling her "no" if she tries to grab clothing. And now that you are concerned about it, watch out for it-- look for opportunities where she might want to tug clothes, and then the instant she -starts- for the clothing, a "Ah-ah!" or "No"-- don't need to shout or lecture her, just a quick warning tone, like you'd give to a toddler about to touch a hot stove, almost more to just get her attention and divert it from "wanna grab dis person love person nom" When she looks around or wags or does anything -other- than proceed to grab clothing, praise her for being good girl!

But honestly, dogs do awkward things like this all the time.

Oh! You could also work on her "leave it" -- you say she's great with it already, which is awesome! Maybe work on it some more so she won't start to, say, play with a tug toy or other similar tuggy-chewy thing, without your OK. Play a bit, tell her stop, praise her for stopping, and don't let the game start again until you give her the "Ok to tug!" signal.
posted by The otter lady at 5:19 PM on May 22, 2018 [9 favorites]

This is no help, but I wonder if it's a rottie thing? I had a very weird experience a while back meeting a Rottweiler while I was walking my dog. I was chatting with the owner, and petting the dog because it was clearly a sweet, friendly animal despite being the size of a small pony. And then I stopped petting it, and it grabbed my forearm in its mouth and tugged me back toward it. For a few moments I thought I was going to lose a hand -- my wrist was completely in the dog's mouth. A moment later the dog let go, clearly not having meant to make an aggressive move at all, it just wanted me to keep petting it. Scared the hell out of me momentarily though, and I'm pretty relaxed around big dogs.

So, dunno, but it seemed like the same sort of behavior, and given that it's the same breed maybe you want to talk to other rottie owners? Possibly it's something they're known for?
posted by LizardBreath at 5:24 PM on May 22, 2018 [1 favorite]

Herding mix in there somewhere, maybe?

Our dog does such things. I would not muzzle, I think to a dog that’s terrifying and a last resort in the same way.i would not bind hands. The advice you are getting is great.

Aggressive behavior is a different category. I would treat this as impolite and maybe a little dangerous.you will need to work on friendly chirpy chatter to let people know it’s a thing and you’re working on it.

I would let your dog chew on my sleeve fwiw.

Yes awkward, not impossible, work on patter for humans and not doing that for doggo.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:57 PM on May 22, 2018 [3 favorites]

Also I would call an expert trainer or vet. Even just a phone call, paid for, to get tips and strategies and knowledge. Take what you want, leave the rest.

Another thing we do with our scary looking girl is put a scarf on her. Just a little jaunty number to let people know, yes, she is friendly.Goodwill is great for goofy dog scarves if you are in the marker.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:01 PM on May 22, 2018 [2 favorites]

Jeez I’m sorry it’s my third comment. I meant dangerous in the sense that people or animals could react in unexpected ways not that it’s inherently dangerous.

To me it sounds assertive but not aggressive.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:04 PM on May 22, 2018 [2 favorites]

While not ideal, this behavior seems within the range of normal and acceptable dogginess. You’re doing the right thing to discourage it when it happens, but it’s infrequent and not aggressive, so I think you’re Ok.

It seems to me that people who are not comfortable with this behavior from a dog should generally not try to pet dogs.
posted by samthemander at 6:13 PM on May 22, 2018 [4 favorites]

We taught our mouthy dog a "stop mouthing" command ("stop it") that we can use proactively in situations where he's thinking of mouthing. You could do the same with your dog. The problem is that you might not know when it was needed, since the mouthing behavior is so rare. And you probably don't want to constantly be reminding her not to mouth every time she's interacting with someone. That could make strangers as nervous as the mouthing itself.

If you can figure out the type of situation that makes her want to pull clothes, you could set up some practice sessions where she wants to do it but you tell her not to and she gets rewarded for not doing it. If you did that enough, she would hopefully learn to refrain from grabbing people's clothes when similar situations came up in real life.
posted by Redstart at 6:39 PM on May 22, 2018 [2 favorites]

Some great advice for additional things you can do here, but honestly, to me it sounds like you're doing fine.

My pug is also goofy and friendly--albeit a lot smaller than your Huggy--and he used to jump up on people he liked if they stopped petting him before he was ready. In addition to telling him to "leave it" right away, I also warned strangers what they could expect if they ended the encounter "prematurely." You might find that useful in preventing some awkwardness.
posted by rpfields at 6:45 PM on May 22, 2018 [2 favorites]

We trained our elderly girl out of this behavior with firm “uh-uh” and vinegar squirts, combined with rewards for responding (at first). It was part of a larger anti anxiety push, but has been successful.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:02 PM on May 22, 2018 [1 favorite]

Really good advice above, so will just second goofy scarves for sending subliminal 'friendly big dog' messages when you're out and about. That works for us, as does a wee colourful fabric flower collar ornament that she wears that just kind of says 'hi - I'm a sweet girl!'
posted by Chairboy at 2:57 AM on May 23, 2018 [2 favorites]

Oh and Huggy looks and sounds like a lovely girl - rescue pups are the best!
posted by Chairboy at 3:00 AM on May 23, 2018 [2 favorites]

If this were my dog, I wouldn't worry about it. The most I would do is warn strangers who want to pet her that she is a little mouthy. Sounds like she responds immediately to your commands, and in my opinion you can't ask for much more. Dogs are like kids - they sometimes do awkward things and embarrass you a bit, but that's part of their innocent charm.
posted by ohsnapdragon at 5:55 AM on May 23, 2018 [4 favorites]

Best answer: If the couch-herding is a consistent pattern when she's ignored, you could set up intentional training situations where friendly folks come in, do something, ignore her, and you pay her handsomely for showing calm, non-herding behavior throughout the interaction. Give her a consistent reward for leaving boring people alone that doesn't require her to intervene for attention. Alternatively, you could give her a more appropriate alternative to herding, like if she sits calmly in a specific spot near the couch, the new person will come join her. If the behavior outside becomes more common or has an identifiable cause (hemlines at a useful height?), then you could set up similar planned situations for that.

FWIW, ethics-wise, if a big dog grabbed my clothing in the way you describe, I wouldn't be alarmed - it sounds like you're handling it pretty well. You could always warn folks who ask about petting her ("sure, but she's had a tendency to grab at clothing recently - we're working on it, sorry in advance") and let them decide if they're uncomfortable with it ahead of time. Obviously you don't want it to escalate into grabbing limbs for the same reaction, but really, I don't think this rises to the level of muzzling at all (and I'm someone who is totally pro-basket-muzzle as a useful training tool and would love to see them more destigmatized.)
posted by mosst at 8:05 AM on May 23, 2018

Best answer: For what it's worth, if a 7-year old dog has been with you 2 years and this behavior cropped up in the last few months, I'd say this is him - not new - and he's now comfortable enough to see if he can have some control.

Just give people a heads up and don't let him do it, when he does.

You might also train him to do things with his mouth like "take" and "hold" and put things in your hand. (Balls, toys, bumpers.)
posted by Lesser Shrew at 12:59 PM on May 23, 2018 [4 favorites]

Response by poster: Thanks for all the great responses. I'll see if I can figure out what triggers it. There are some great suggestions here.

The scarf is a great idea, but she actually hates wearing them. I have a bright flowery one and one with little colorful smiling skulls, but she keeps pulling them off.

Hong Kong is an interesting place to have a big dog. The local idea of a pet is a little fuzzy white dog (although this is changing). By most local standards, Huggy is a village dog (a working dog) and not a dog you keep as a pet. It's taken a year of patience to have most of my neighbors not leap out of the escalator when they see her, so I'd love it if she didn't take up wide-scale clothes pulling.

There's one neighbor who is afraid of dogs, and she *loooooooves* him. If she sees him, she will moan with happiness and longing, which he clearly thinks is ferocious growling. Star-crossed lovers.
posted by frumiousb at 4:57 PM on May 23, 2018 [4 favorites]

Hmmmm... shame about the scarves. We are going on holiday shortly, and will be passing the shop where our girl got her collar flower/ornament, so if you like (and if they still have them) I will pick one up for Huggy and put it in the post to you!
posted by Chairboy at 1:36 PM on June 12, 2018