I think I took my issues out on my kid - or maybe I just parented?

May 14, 2018 7:34 AM

My 10 yr old asked me if I'd bought eggs yet, and then walked away without a response when I said no. It triggered my PTSD. I *think* my response was within the realm of reasonable but I'm not sure.

Act 1

Me: [Weeding, planting, cursing at dandelions]

Him: [Sticks his face out of the window] Mom, did you buy eggs yet?

Me: Nope, not y---

Him: [Gone]

Act 2

Me: [Triggered! Specifically, feeling like my kid's angry with me and has expressed anger at me. I am about 1 yr out of a verbally abusive marriage where my ex would get angry and refuse to speak to me for several days for exactly this type of "transgression".]

Also Me: [Realizes he didn't actually express anger and I'm feeling triggered.]

But Again Me: [Still thinks he was rude, still feeling the triggered feelings.]

Act 3

Me: Kid, come back here, please.

Him: What?

Me: That was rude, what you did just now. You walked away without a response when I said 'no.'

Him: What? Why?

Me: That's not how you end conversations. It made me think you were mad at me for not buying eggs yet. You should at least say something like, "Okay," before running off.

Him: Okay. [Looks a bit wary, possibly wondering if he's in for a lecture?]

Me: Okay, thanks for agreeing. Can you get me my water bottle, please?

Him: [Loses wary look, gets on with it]

~Fin~


It was a perfectly calm conversation in non-angry and non-blamey tones, and I know I didn't damage him, but I'm wondering if talking to him at all was completely unnecessary? I feel like I only did it because of my issues being triggered by his normal, harmless, and possibly completely acceptable (??) behavior. Is it even rude for a child to walk away without closing a conversation properly? I'm starting to lean towards no! It's just random, a thing kids do because they're always rushing off. If I didn't have PTSD and all this baggage, I wouldn't have given this thing a second thought, let alone had the chat with him or called him rude or told him how he made me feel. Right? But on the other hand, there is still a voice in my head saying it IS a little rude to walk off and maybe it's just proper parenting to tell him so (even if I did it for all the wrong reasons).

I know this sounds nitpicky/overthinky but I'm paranoid about taking out my issues on my kids. I want to avoid it as much as I possibly can. Perspective, please?

posted by MiraK to Human Relations (35 answers total)

Your kid was mildly rude but I agree that calling him out on it was unnecessary and was making a mountain out of a molehill.
posted by crazy with stars at 7:37 AM on May 14, 2018 [11 favorites]

I think you were right to issue a mild instruction like you did. It will benefit Kid to know that in an interaction like that, the polite adult approach would be to acknowledge the information given.
posted by lakeroon at 7:42 AM on May 14, 2018 [75 favorites]

I got in Big Trouble as a child when an adult thought (because she did not hear my response) that I had walked away without saying anything.

I mean, my thought is that while on the one hand calling someone out when feeling triggered is probably not the best way to roll, on the other it is in fact kind of rude to walk away in that manner and it doesn't hurt your child to avoid the habit. I don't think most people are going to be like "what a rude 10 year old" when he does it because hey, 10 years old, but it's better to build polite habits from youth and wouldn't your child prefer to have people think "what a well-mannered 10 year old" than the other anyway?
posted by Frowner at 7:42 AM on May 14, 2018 [8 favorites]

Just looking at the amount of introspection and feelings you had I would say you most definitely over-reacted, yes.

Sure, it would have been super polite for your kid to give some type of verbal response to acknowledge he heard you, but you answered his question and he's 10.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:43 AM on May 14, 2018 [8 favorites]

Best answer: It made me think you were mad at me for not buying eggs yet.

I would have left out this part. Your kid shouldn't have to worry that you think he's mad at you when your kid is just being garden-variety kid rude. That's your issue to process.

That said, I think a quick mention: "Hey we end conversations here" (or whatever) is fine. In the case you outline, the kid left while you were basically still talking? That's rude and I think mentioning it is fine. Belaboring it is not.
posted by jessamyn at 7:44 AM on May 14, 2018 [99 favorites]

Hmmm. I have this kind of conversation with my kids sometimes, without the same history you are describing. I think it is good for kids to realize that other people are not just the means to their ends. As long as it was not overly colored by the feelings that were triggered in you, I think that is a good conversation to have. Also, 10 is not too young for kids to start thinking to themselves "[Parent] prefers it when I..." It's a model that they can then use to figure out how to interpret and deal with other people's communication styles. Other people than you will interpret his behavior as mildly rude and wonder if they said something wrong or if he's just a being a kid. Kids will model behavior they see and sometimes they also need things explicitly pointed out to them.
posted by nequalsone at 7:49 AM on May 14, 2018 [4 favorites]

Best answer: I talk to my kid all the time about acknowledging that you have heard someone say something--it is rude to not respond to someone, thank them for the info, whatever, though I think of it less as a symptom of anger than as confirming that you heard and understood the info. I also think that asking a kid to be considerate of your perspective is fine. (For example, my kid knows that fake vomiting/burping noises are always rude but especially around me, who particularly hates them.) You don't have to get into the history, and there's probably a line in terms of eggshell-walking, but "Hey, that was rude, plus it reminds me of some extra-rude friends, can you please remember those manners?" is not that big of a deal.
posted by tchemgrrl at 7:51 AM on May 14, 2018 [7 favorites]

I think you were doing some solid parenting there! Good job! Also, I wish I could read my own exchanges with my kids in screenplay format. :-)
posted by machinecraig at 7:58 AM on May 14, 2018 [11 favorites]

Well, as someone who is currently struggling with how much I expect my daughter to learn to pick up on social cues and tone and etc., versus the world apparently not expecting such things from boys and am I over-socializing or policing her? Am I putting my baggage on her? How would I treat her if she were a boy?!

That's where my head is at and I don't necessarily think that what you did was wrong or overly weird. I think you are probably overthinking it because it's a multi-faceted correction drawing on a few different elements. In general, though, I think teaching our kids how to operate in the world in a polite way and in consideration of other people's feelings and inner lives is a good thing...for boys and girls. And being slightly befuddled and irritated is a thing that happens even, I would guess, for the best parents among us.

I think that working through the irritation to arrive at some lesson and then working through on your own the best way to impart that lesson is the best thing you can do. Your Act 3 seems right on. You went back and explained yourself. Now he knows and you can both think about how to apply this rule in the future. It is more polite to finish the conversation, for sure. That's a good life lesson and a good lesson for your child to learn about dealing with you.
posted by amanda at 8:02 AM on May 14, 2018 [4 favorites]

Best answer: "It made me think you were mad" Coaching your kid on how people interpret non-verbal cues is important. But that assumes that the interpretation, and not your feelings, is the point. As long as you're providing feedback, and not assigning kiddo the responsibility of making you feel better, or managing your feelings, you're golden.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 8:12 AM on May 14, 2018 [5 favorites]

I think you did fine. What he did was a bit rude, but not OMG rude, you handled it OK. Maybe not great but OK, you said hey I'd rather you did x instead of y & didn't make a big deal about it. It doesn't hurt your child to know how his behaviour might be interpreted by you. The fact you stated it & let it drop was great you hid how much you were stressing about it but considering how much you stressed about it you were, that might be something you need to work on.
posted by wwax at 8:24 AM on May 14, 2018

I think that what you said to your kid was basic good parenting. Nothing wrong with it at all.
Your internal dialogue is pretty intense though.
I think you are working through things Andre doing fine. In time you wil not obsess over these things so much.
posted by SLC Mom at 8:28 AM on May 14, 2018 [3 favorites]

I'll add: You did not take your issues out on your kid.
Because of your issues, these little things bother you more than some people, and that is fine. We all have different tolerances for stuff. You explained things clearly and appropriately.
posted by SLC Mom at 8:36 AM on May 14, 2018 [2 favorites]

Best answer: I think that was good parenting. Thing is, anyone who has lived with a pro-active sulker or proponent of other passive aggressive behaviour knows how quickly little kids can catch that way of being because it's normalised within the home. So, because you're modelling an alternative way of communicating and also working to correct prior modelling I think it's a good idea to be more explicit about subtexts than you would be otherwise. What you did adds up to explicitly demonstrating and explaining emotional intelligence and was a counter to the way people who sulk are always claiming that they didn't do, say or mean anything
posted by glasseyes at 8:39 AM on May 14, 2018 [12 favorites]

I wonder if explaining to him that you had an outsize response to his not answering you was due to your PTSD is an option. I bet he'd appreciate understanding why you reacted as you did, and knowing it wasn't due to him, but to your internal trigger, would be kind. He would probably love you for trusting him. I find parenting is often confrontational and that sharing sets up a more understanding dynamic. It made me feel less like a dictator, and more like a loving coach, anyway,
posted by citygirl at 8:46 AM on May 14, 2018

Is it even rude for a child to walk away without closing a conversation properly?

Would you think an adult was rude for walking away without closing a conversation properly? Then why wouldn't it be rude for a child? I always thought of parenting not as raising little kids but raising future adults. If you want your future adult to close conversations properly, you have to teach him to do so. And you did! I think what you said is completely fine.

IMO, if you don't call out the mildly rude incidents, they gradually balloon to highly rude incidents. You did Proper Parenting, and not for all the wrong reasons.
posted by cooker girl at 8:50 AM on May 14, 2018 [5 favorites]

A lot would come down to tone, I think. But it mostly sounds fine except I agree about maybe leaving out "made me think you were mad." (There were no other clues toward that indication, and do you really want him to be thinking he should have to reassure you "no worries, that's okay" about not having bought eggs, or having to consider in random silences or awkward interactions what bigger storyline you might be creating?)

Another option to consider would've been to call after him something like "you're welcome," since I see what he did as being on the level of omitting to thank you for answering his question. That would've noted the interaction, but you could've saved the bigger conversation until you saw this as really being a trend.
posted by salvia at 8:52 AM on May 14, 2018 [2 favorites]

This was just parenting! You did fine!

It's rude for him to walk away abruptly from his mom while she's talking. Especially when you're answering a question that he asked about something that he wants. This falls into the general parenting category of "just because I'm responsible for caring for you doesn't mean that I'm your personal robot servant who can be dismissed with a wave." It's not a major infraction of course, kids are naturally a bit self-centered and just need to be gently reminded to be nicer humans sometimes.

The only thing I would suggest is that "you made me think you were mad at me for not buying eggs yet" is a bit off as an interpretation. I mean, if your kid WAS actually storming off in a huff because you hadn't bought eggs yet, that would also be rude of him. But don't beat yourself up for that comment, you still did just fine!
posted by desuetude at 9:01 AM on May 14, 2018 [1 favorite]

Oh, or you could have called "goodbye to you too!" But the calling-after-him solution relies upon being quick and having a light tone.
posted by salvia at 9:01 AM on May 14, 2018 [1 favorite]

GOOD was calling him back and explaining to him that what he did was rude. That is literally your job, to teach him social skills and how to act in the world.

not ideal, but also not a big breach, was getting into your triggered feelings with him; that's off point, and in general it's not a great idea to use guilt as a parenting mechanism. What he needed to know was that his behavior was just garden-variety rude, and to not do it again. And you did that. It would have been a bigger parenting breach to let this behavior "go" and let him go on thinking that's an ok way to act.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:05 AM on May 14, 2018 [4 favorites]

Best answer: Presumably the kid also lived through the same abusive relationship? In that case I do think it's valuable to mention "made me think you were mad" because he may a) think walking away is normal because of that b) also have triggers that he needs to learn how to articulate and check-in on and you can model appropriate ways to do so.

You may need to have more of these conversations, including offering affirmations when the interaction has gone totally fine but might not have done so with the abuser or abusive people in the future, since predators look for pre-traumatized targets. That's obviously a thing to take up with both your therapist and your child's, because there are frameworks you can learn and use there.

In any case, I think it's appropriate for any parent to have "yo, come back and talk to me about the thing that just happened" conversations with their kids, when everyone is relatively calm and ready to process, and not just for "you just did an incorrect thing" but also "you just experienced an incorrect thing from someone else/me and here's why and here's some tools for dealing with it." While it's possible to learn to deal with that stuff without help, it sure is a whole lot easier with guidance.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:07 AM on May 14, 2018 [16 favorites]

I have a kid this age, and his reaction seems normal - 4th/5th graders aren't necessarily skilled at the back-and-forth. He had the information he wanted, so he left. That said, I think you did a good job realizing he wasn't showing anger, and you took the opportunity to explain to him why it's important to finish a conversation. This is a life skill, and his future friends, colleagues, and especially romantic partner will benefit from you helping him develop this kind of awareness. And he will benefit, too. I don't think it's going too far to say you were helping him learn to do emotional labor.
posted by Knowyournuts at 9:13 AM on May 14, 2018 [6 favorites]

As long as your tone was reasonable, I think you’re fine. It’s perfectly OK for a child that age to learn that his actions can hurt people’s feelings and that his mom is a person too.
posted by FencingGal at 9:16 AM on May 14, 2018 [2 favorites]

I think what you did was fine. Like Jessamyn, I am not sure I would have included the part about how you may be feeling when he does not respond.

Having said all that, I am not sure if it is because I am a NYer, a guy, a trader who has no time for certain parts of a polite conversation or I am an oaf, but I have no issue with your son getting the information he sought and turning away. He just wanted to know if he should waste time looking for the eggs in the fridge or if they are not there. If he has to go into a whole formal polite conversation, perhaps the first thing he should have said was, "Good morning mom. How are you today?" Then after your response he would have said, "I slept well. Did you by chance have the opportunity in your busy schedule to stop at the store and pick up the eggs?"

It was not a formal conversation. It was a simple ask for information. By definition he heard your response or decided it did not matter because he walked away. To me, the conversation ended when both parties received the information they needed or gave. I guess you could say you needed an acknowledgement, but I am not sure the reason why that was necessary at that time. I do think that your son adding something along the lines of. "Thanks" or "ok" wouldn't hurt, but necessary is debatable.

When I was trading on the floor, my family and friends all learned that the conversation could end at any time by any party to the conversation and if it was important, the person who hung up or walked away would bring it up again. Even my mother learned that "gottagobye" was code for I am hanging up.
posted by AugustWest at 9:34 AM on May 14, 2018 [2 favorites]

If this small thing triggers you then get out your coping strategies book now because as a parent of a pre-teenager you will get more of this, so start preparing now to get ahead of your own reactions and can be clear minded in most situations.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:02 AM on May 14, 2018 [2 favorites]

another vote for team i think you did fine and you shouldn't worry too much -- after all, the fact that you're thinking about it this much and wondering if you went too far means that you're probably a self aware and emotionally intelligent sort... I am not a parent but I hear there's no way to do it perfectly, and it seems like you are doing your best.
posted by elgee at 10:29 AM on May 14, 2018 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Okay, thanks everyone for your input! My takeaways from this have been:

1. it IS good that I educated him about acknowledging someone's response to him

2. it may be helpful to talk about my weird emotional response (I thought he was angry) but in a different way and certainly at a different time, with a focus on helping him process how he experiences his dad (I already try to do this somewhat but my own growing awareness of my emotional responses is making me realize he might need help also)

3. keep going to therapy and being more self aware and, idk, offer up sacrifices to gods? dance the rain dances? in hopes that my PTSD responses mitigate before the kids get into their total asshat years.
posted by MiraK at 10:55 AM on May 14, 2018 [12 favorites]

Sounds 100% reasonable and non-problematic to me. No worrying required atall.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:24 AM on May 14, 2018

You are his parent, and in calling him back to correct him, because you felt the conversation should have been longer, and featured confirmation from him that he'd heard what you'd said, you parented him.

Just as a data point: when I was about his age, my mom "weeding, planting, cursing at dandelions" or similar was absolutely my cue to keep it short and sweet. You'd like your son to make the effort to see things from your p.o.v.; make sure you're returning that courtesy, as part of that modeling-the-behavior advice.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:37 AM on May 14, 2018 [2 favorites]

I think what you did is fine, but I also think that you answered his question and that's where the conversation initiated by him ends. It seems like policing of feelings as much as it is about anything else. Don't do that. If you are the conversation initiator, then you get to choose how it ends. If he's mad at you, tell him to vocalize that.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:40 PM on May 14, 2018

Also, yes sometimes people need to acknowledge that they heard info or instructions - but this is not one of those times.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:41 PM on May 14, 2018 [1 favorite]

Again, one of those "are we living on the same planet?!" questions. OP, your job as a parent is indeed to teach your kid the social norm that in the normal course of events, when one has asked for information from a human being and received it, the response is AT MINIMUM "thanks" or "ok." In some cases there may be more acknowledgement required; in no case is there less.

Then, yes, one is free to turn around and be on one's way.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:45 PM on May 14, 2018 [5 favorites]

Best answer: 1. it IS good that I educated him about acknowledging someone's response to him

2. it may be helpful to talk about my weird emotional response (I thought he was angry) but in a different way and certainly at a different time, with a focus on helping him process how he experiences his dad (I already try to do this somewhat but my own growing awareness of my emotional responses is making me realize he might need help also)

3. keep going to therapy and being more self aware and, idk, offer up sacrifices to gods? dance the rain dances? in hopes that my PTSD responses mitigate before the kids get into their total asshat years.

Yep yep yep! You may want to check out the book When Anger Scares You: How to Overcome Your Fear of Conflict and Express Your Anger in Healthy Ways, both for yourself and for helping your son. Anger is a super-important, super-helpful, and very misunderstood emotion, even for people who haven't had to deal with abusive family dynamics; for those who have, anger can get classified as a radioactive substance and AVOID AVOID AVOID!, which can teach kids that they're not allowed to have boundaries or real emotions. Jumping to a conclusion that a kid is angry despite no evidence to back that up, and then modeling to the kid that someone thinking you're angry is a really big deal, is a way of teaching that anger is never ok. Rage and destruction and abuse are never ok, but anger is necessary -- otherwise we can never stand up for others or ourselves. The more you can work with yourself and your therapist about learning about anger's gifts, the even-better parent you can be to your child (and, I suspect, the less triggered you may be by others' anger).

And as an aside -- some therapists get good at emotional intelligence because they're so conflict-averse that they can head off anger without dealing with it directly, and are therefore really really bad at teaching clients how to deal with anger appropriately (e.g., they'll classify all anger as bad). If your therapist does that, then make a mental note that you'll need an anger-positive therapist at some point in the future to deal with that issue.
posted by lazuli at 6:36 PM on May 14, 2018 [3 favorites]

Up front: this would be, at most, a mild overreaction, and probably wasn't even that. Your kid's behavior doesn't strike me as rude, but certainly you're well within your discretion on the degree of formality of manners you want to have in your house to correct it. NBD.

But...this is one of those situations in which the present overuse of "trigger" is not helpful. From your description of what you experienced, at least (maybe you've downplayed it), you were not triggered in a clinical sense--you were not struck by a violent wave of irrational fear or anger, you did not have an overwhelming and disproportionate physical reaction, you did not begin to dissociate or derealize or self-harm or act out other compulsions. In short: not an involuntary, disproportionate, and overwhelming response that disabled you. You got a little upset because you thought your kid was angry at you. Which is okay! But using the word "trigger" (a) makes it sound like some medical phenomenon you don't really have control over and (b) starts to make your reaction partially his to manage. Neither is true. Your kid did something mildly rude that upset you, something you are extra-sensitive to because of past abuse. Your kid's manners are his responsibility, but, as you're the grown person in a relationship which is not voluntary on your kid's part, your extra-sensitivity is not. I don't think calling the ordinary reaction of getting offended or irritated or hurt, even against a backdrop of past trauma, "being triggered" will help you manage it.

I'm not trying to pick on you here, but "I'm medically incapable of reacting normally to my child's expressing anger at me" would be a disastrous framework for even the least contentious of parent-teen relationships. Your child is going to express anger at you from time to time; just going by the odds, sometimes it will even be justified. Your child's expressing anger at you really, really, really cannot be "something that triggers Mom," because expressing anger can't be something the kid has to take serious steps to avoid due to the disproportionate harm it causes, like religiously avoiding strobes or the use of a certain phrase or image.
posted by praemunire at 1:19 AM on May 15, 2018 [4 favorites]

Response by poster: That's interesting, praemunire. I've had two therapists refer to similar reactions in me in the past as my being triggered, and as (small but real) manifestations of my larger PTSD. Maybe if I have "real" triggers, these smaller reactions also count as triggers in the same way that small symptoms of cancer, like aches, are still cancer symptoms when one does in fact have cancer?

Important note: at no point, for "real" triggers or for small ones, am I holding others responsible for triggering me. The trigger feelings are NOT the kid's fault (or anyone else's). The feelings are entirely my own. I think I made that very clear in my post. In fact, the whole post was about making sure that I had no accidentally made my kid feel responsible for my feelings. I'm aware and careful about this.
posted by MiraK at 5:33 AM on May 15, 2018 [2 favorites]