For better or worse: What is considered normal "worse" and what is not?
May 3, 2018 9:43 PM Subscribe
My marriage isn't even 11 months old yet & I am rapidly losing hope. Some serious red flags are emerging but I can't decide if these are severe enough to consider ending a marriage. In other words, when I vowed to love my wife "For better or for worse", is what I'm describing qualify as "worse" or am I describing behaviors that could qualify as marriage dealbreakers? Trust me, I 100% want this marriage to go the distance but not if I am going to spend a lifetime being the victim of emotional abuse.
1). Critical: My wife is CONSTANTLY on my case about something. If I say or do anything that is in conflict with what she wants, her first reaction is always to 1). act annoyed/angry 2). challenge me and make me explain myself. She does not hesitate to criticize the way I dress (she is adamant that she picks out my clothes for me), the shoes I wear, the way I workout, the way I eat, the way I fold laundry, the way I cook, the way I put dishes in the dishwasher, the way I put the toilet paper on the roll, the music I want to listen to, the car I drive, the things I like to do with my friends, the way I groom myself, that my teeth are yellow, that my nose-hairs are too long, that I smell (I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but these accusations are not justified). I mean is this a normal husband-wife dynamic and I'm just overly sensitive or am I correct in thinking this is intolerable? I'm literally exhausted because just when I think I have figured her out and done everything to her standards she finds something else to complain about.
2). Lack of compromise/double standards: She wants/expects me to hang out with her & her friends (which happens at least once a weekend) but she has no desire to want to hang out with my friends whenever they get together (which is once in a blue moon). In terms of dividing up our time between family get-togethers she is very adamant that she will never spend a Christmas or Thanksgiving away from her family (I think alternating years is the logical thing). Also, it's like pulling teeth to get her to be a part of any of my family functions (she hasn't seen my extended family since Labor Day). Her firm stance on things like this makes me VERY nervous about bringing kids into the equation
3). Jealousy: We were at a concert a few weekends ago and while she was in the bathroom, a couple of girls came up to my friend and I and started asking us questions. Knowing my wife can be insecure--esp when she is drinking, I consciously did not even engage in the conversation but my wife came up behind me and yanked on my arm to get on my attention to where half my drink spilled. I called her out on it, she half-apologized for her behavior but justified it by saying I would have reacted the same way (which is completely false) and that I shouldn't have been talking to two strange girls. When I countered that this wasn't a true apology, she got mad at me and we got into a huge fight and didn't speak the rest of the night.
4). Sexual Intimacy: It has decayed to the point to where it is almost non-existent now. I used to try to come up with creative ideas to spark the passion including lots of date nights but she usually would have an excuse for not wanting to have sex. She would confess that she felt really pressured and that she wanted to be in control of initiating sex. Well, she doesn't even initiate it and I am so mad at her all the time for how she treats me that I admittedly don't try to initiate it anymore myself--I have essentially given up on our sex life.
I know it's a long post, but to summarize I'm absolutely frustrated with the path this relationship is headed down and I feel helpless that there's anything I can do to make this relationship feel healthy. I am convinced that she has a high-conflict type of personality. She grew up in an emotionally abusive & controlling household. I've tried to set boundaries and use "I- statements" and she always fires back with "you're not my therapist". She's not interested in having a healthy "talk" about this pathological dynamic--it quickly turns into blaming & accusations. I've tried to just contain my emotions but it just causes me to silently resent her (I tell myself over and over how much I hate her whenever she treats me like this). And whenever I choose not to be a doormat or pushover and actually defend myself--it just causes us to get into a big fight and she accuses me of "being argumentative" then there's a period of coldness on both sides and then we eventually get over it. I get it that married couples fight but daily fighting CANNOT be healthy long term. I need some advice on how to handle myself better in these situations and if there's anything I can do to remediate this dynamic. She is not interested in couples therapy btw--she is convinced the problem is not her.
1). Critical: My wife is CONSTANTLY on my case about something. If I say or do anything that is in conflict with what she wants, her first reaction is always to 1). act annoyed/angry 2). challenge me and make me explain myself. She does not hesitate to criticize the way I dress (she is adamant that she picks out my clothes for me), the shoes I wear, the way I workout, the way I eat, the way I fold laundry, the way I cook, the way I put dishes in the dishwasher, the way I put the toilet paper on the roll, the music I want to listen to, the car I drive, the things I like to do with my friends, the way I groom myself, that my teeth are yellow, that my nose-hairs are too long, that I smell (I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but these accusations are not justified). I mean is this a normal husband-wife dynamic and I'm just overly sensitive or am I correct in thinking this is intolerable? I'm literally exhausted because just when I think I have figured her out and done everything to her standards she finds something else to complain about.
2). Lack of compromise/double standards: She wants/expects me to hang out with her & her friends (which happens at least once a weekend) but she has no desire to want to hang out with my friends whenever they get together (which is once in a blue moon). In terms of dividing up our time between family get-togethers she is very adamant that she will never spend a Christmas or Thanksgiving away from her family (I think alternating years is the logical thing). Also, it's like pulling teeth to get her to be a part of any of my family functions (she hasn't seen my extended family since Labor Day). Her firm stance on things like this makes me VERY nervous about bringing kids into the equation
3). Jealousy: We were at a concert a few weekends ago and while she was in the bathroom, a couple of girls came up to my friend and I and started asking us questions. Knowing my wife can be insecure--esp when she is drinking, I consciously did not even engage in the conversation but my wife came up behind me and yanked on my arm to get on my attention to where half my drink spilled. I called her out on it, she half-apologized for her behavior but justified it by saying I would have reacted the same way (which is completely false) and that I shouldn't have been talking to two strange girls. When I countered that this wasn't a true apology, she got mad at me and we got into a huge fight and didn't speak the rest of the night.
4). Sexual Intimacy: It has decayed to the point to where it is almost non-existent now. I used to try to come up with creative ideas to spark the passion including lots of date nights but she usually would have an excuse for not wanting to have sex. She would confess that she felt really pressured and that she wanted to be in control of initiating sex. Well, she doesn't even initiate it and I am so mad at her all the time for how she treats me that I admittedly don't try to initiate it anymore myself--I have essentially given up on our sex life.
I know it's a long post, but to summarize I'm absolutely frustrated with the path this relationship is headed down and I feel helpless that there's anything I can do to make this relationship feel healthy. I am convinced that she has a high-conflict type of personality. She grew up in an emotionally abusive & controlling household. I've tried to set boundaries and use "I- statements" and she always fires back with "you're not my therapist". She's not interested in having a healthy "talk" about this pathological dynamic--it quickly turns into blaming & accusations. I've tried to just contain my emotions but it just causes me to silently resent her (I tell myself over and over how much I hate her whenever she treats me like this). And whenever I choose not to be a doormat or pushover and actually defend myself--it just causes us to get into a big fight and she accuses me of "being argumentative" then there's a period of coldness on both sides and then we eventually get over it. I get it that married couples fight but daily fighting CANNOT be healthy long term. I need some advice on how to handle myself better in these situations and if there's anything I can do to remediate this dynamic. She is not interested in couples therapy btw--she is convinced the problem is not her.
This internet stranger (and long-time married person) thinks your situation doesn't sound at all like the way a marriage in its first year -- or for that matter any year -- should sound.
posted by escabeche at 9:48 PM on May 3, 2018 [30 favorites]
posted by escabeche at 9:48 PM on May 3, 2018 [30 favorites]
Marriage is generally about compromising to a certain extent. Which way to put the toilet paper on the roll - OK, whoever cares most gets to choose. But music, clothing, and how to work out - sorry, no.
If a female wrote this about how her husband expects her to behave, this would be a clear case of advising her to bail out now.
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 9:52 PM on May 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
If a female wrote this about how her husband expects her to behave, this would be a clear case of advising her to bail out now.
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 9:52 PM on May 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
Was there a point where things, like... were actually good? Where you had a relationship you can point to and say, "if we could go back to where we were six months ago or a year ago, that'd be great"? If you had something that was really worth fighting for at one point, it might be feasible to say that it was plausible that you could get back to that. But if the best you can say is that stuff used to suck marginally less than it does now, I think you're better out of it sooner than later.
posted by Sequence at 9:56 PM on May 3, 2018 [40 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 9:56 PM on May 3, 2018 [40 favorites]
Was she always like this or just after the wedding? How long did you date before getting married?
She sounds like a very angry person and the only way to get through to her may be to leave.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:57 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
She sounds like a very angry person and the only way to get through to her may be to leave.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:57 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
This sounds terrible, especially after so brief a time. I think leaving is the best call here.
posted by Slinga at 9:59 PM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Slinga at 9:59 PM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Yes, she is emotionally abusive. I'm so sorry. If she's not willing to go to therapy, you need to protect yourself and get out.
Like, I'm a person whose anxiety manifests in being overly critical of the people close to me. It sucks and I am not always very good at recognizing when I'm doing it, but I'm constantly trying to get better at noticing it, and to not say or act on the things I'm thinking (while I also work on just not thinking the things omg). I'm doing this in therapy and in couples therapy and in constant communication with my partner. And when I read your first paragraph, I was like "oh shit, it me??" but then I got to the part where she insists on picking out your clothes? And then the rest of it? Noooope.
But you know what though -- it doesn't matter who's right or wrong about any specific thing on which you disagree. Here's what matters:
I'm literally exhausted
I'm absolutely frustrated
I feel helpless
I've tried to set boundaries
I've tried to just contain my emotions
My friend. Your feelings are real, and you have been very clear here about what they are. It doesn't matter if you're "right" or justified or if you learn to "handle yourself better" -- you feel exhausted, and frustrated, and helpless, and you're trying to literally suppress your own emotions in order to keep the peace in your household. This is not fair to you, and it's not sustainable.
posted by librarina at 9:59 PM on May 3, 2018 [93 favorites]
Like, I'm a person whose anxiety manifests in being overly critical of the people close to me. It sucks and I am not always very good at recognizing when I'm doing it, but I'm constantly trying to get better at noticing it, and to not say or act on the things I'm thinking (while I also work on just not thinking the things omg). I'm doing this in therapy and in couples therapy and in constant communication with my partner. And when I read your first paragraph, I was like "oh shit, it me??" but then I got to the part where she insists on picking out your clothes? And then the rest of it? Noooope.
But you know what though -- it doesn't matter who's right or wrong about any specific thing on which you disagree. Here's what matters:
I'm literally exhausted
I'm absolutely frustrated
I feel helpless
I've tried to set boundaries
I've tried to just contain my emotions
My friend. Your feelings are real, and you have been very clear here about what they are. It doesn't matter if you're "right" or justified or if you learn to "handle yourself better" -- you feel exhausted, and frustrated, and helpless, and you're trying to literally suppress your own emotions in order to keep the peace in your household. This is not fair to you, and it's not sustainable.
posted by librarina at 9:59 PM on May 3, 2018 [93 favorites]
if she's not interested in breaking the behavior patterns she grew up with - and it sounds as if she is not - you should move on ASAP.
That said, were you aware of her family dynamic? We bring our parents with us into our marriages and unless we consciously reshape our behavoir we mirror it. In your parents' marriage, was your mother the dominant partner?
posted by mwhybark at 10:01 PM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
That said, were you aware of her family dynamic? We bring our parents with us into our marriages and unless we consciously reshape our behavoir we mirror it. In your parents' marriage, was your mother the dominant partner?
posted by mwhybark at 10:01 PM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Annulment?
posted by aramaic at 10:01 PM on May 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 10:01 PM on May 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
Nope, this is not normal. Your gut is right--she is emotionally abusive and controlling. I felt exhausted just reading your description!
I suggest you print this out and take it to a counsellor--a counsellor for you, not a couples counsellor. They'll be able to help you navigate your next steps. But you really do deserve to be treated much better than this.
And I know you said you're not having sex right now, but in case things change in that front: it would be a VERY bad idea to bring children into this relationship! (I only mention this because a friend of mine was contemplating leaving her controlling husband, and he started being nicer to her and was suddenly very keen on having a fourth child. So they did, and then he told her she couldn't leave him now because 'no other man would have her with four kids.' So.)
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:03 PM on May 3, 2018 [19 favorites]
I suggest you print this out and take it to a counsellor--a counsellor for you, not a couples counsellor. They'll be able to help you navigate your next steps. But you really do deserve to be treated much better than this.
And I know you said you're not having sex right now, but in case things change in that front: it would be a VERY bad idea to bring children into this relationship! (I only mention this because a friend of mine was contemplating leaving her controlling husband, and he started being nicer to her and was suddenly very keen on having a fourth child. So they did, and then he told her she couldn't leave him now because 'no other man would have her with four kids.' So.)
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:03 PM on May 3, 2018 [19 favorites]
Yeah, this is not worth trying to fix. Cut your losses.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:04 PM on May 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 10:04 PM on May 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
Nowhere in that entire post did you say that you love your wife (only that you had promised to love her). I think you already know the answer and are looking for validation for your feelings. It certainly sounds to me like she's emotionally abusive and controlling, but even if I didn't think so, it seems perfectly clear that you do.
You should do what your gut is telling you to do. Your marriage vows, while not unimportant, are not worth a lifetime of unhappiness. You deserve to be free of this woman, and the sooner the better.
posted by cerebus19 at 10:28 PM on May 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
You should do what your gut is telling you to do. Your marriage vows, while not unimportant, are not worth a lifetime of unhappiness. You deserve to be free of this woman, and the sooner the better.
posted by cerebus19 at 10:28 PM on May 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
This is not OK and you need to be talking to a counselor or a helpline to figure out what to do. Absolutely not normal at all. The way you are being treated is unacceptable. My marriage has never looked like this and if it did I would be getting a divorce.
Is it at all possible to rent an apartment for a bit to "take a break" and regroup?
I'm also concerned about your limited ability to lock down birth control and prevent bringing children into this marriage. as a man. I'd keep on not having sex to be safe.
posted by sacchan at 10:30 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Is it at all possible to rent an apartment for a bit to "take a break" and regroup?
I'm also concerned about your limited ability to lock down birth control and prevent bringing children into this marriage. as a man. I'd keep on not having sex to be safe.
posted by sacchan at 10:30 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is totally not normal. She is abusive. Every couple has their little fits about stupid stuff like toilet paper roll direction (raises hand) but not about everything and this is everything. You deserve to be happy and to have someone who respects you and your needs. Get some time with a counselor for yourself to figure out a strategy to improve your life, with or without her (probably without her because, dayum, your situation sound miserable).
posted by Foam Pants at 10:39 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Foam Pants at 10:39 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Nope. Somebody who belittles their partner and insists on choosing their clothing is not in a place to be in a healthy relationship. Therapist for you to support you while you get out. There are *always* two people in any bad relationship dynamic. If she can't acknowledge that, there's no hope to fix it.
posted by frumiousb at 10:43 PM on May 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by frumiousb at 10:43 PM on May 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
I’m no relationship expert but just reading your description made my shoulders creep up around my ears. That all sounds really, really bad. You must be so exhausted and stressed out all the time. Anyone would be under those circumstances. Take care. I’m sending good thoughts your way.
posted by bighappyhairydog at 10:57 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by bighappyhairydog at 10:57 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
is this a normal husband-wife dynamic
It's totally not a healthy husband-wife dynamic. As to whether it's normal - I guess it depends what you're used to. Something in your wife's past has taught her these ways of behaving - we'd maybe guess that the dynamic in the family where she grew up may have been similarly unhealthy, and she's repeating the pattern.
If you both have a joint commitment to each other & to making the relationship work for both of you, those things can be unlearned. So, in your account it's not how she behaves but that she's resistant to any kind of change or recognition that you're unhappy - that's the relationship-killer. If it doesn't work for both of you, it doesn't work.
posted by rd45 at 11:06 PM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's totally not a healthy husband-wife dynamic. As to whether it's normal - I guess it depends what you're used to. Something in your wife's past has taught her these ways of behaving - we'd maybe guess that the dynamic in the family where she grew up may have been similarly unhealthy, and she's repeating the pattern.
If you both have a joint commitment to each other & to making the relationship work for both of you, those things can be unlearned. So, in your account it's not how she behaves but that she's resistant to any kind of change or recognition that you're unhappy - that's the relationship-killer. If it doesn't work for both of you, it doesn't work.
posted by rd45 at 11:06 PM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
It doesn't sound like either of you are getting any benefit from this marriage. Projecting a little, it seems like she wants constant fighting (push back, dammit!), and you're not willing to provide that (nor should you be!), and you want, well, a loving teammate? A supportive partner? Someone who has as much respect and affection for you as you for them?
I say this as someone who grew up with so much fighting that I grew deadened to it and sought ought the same dynamic for myself when I got into a relationship. It was so frustrating when my boyfriend wouldn't engage; I got some therapy and medication and it's much better now, but it doesn't seem like your wife is ready to seek that out for herself.
posted by batter_my_heart at 11:08 PM on May 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
I say this as someone who grew up with so much fighting that I grew deadened to it and sought ought the same dynamic for myself when I got into a relationship. It was so frustrating when my boyfriend wouldn't engage; I got some therapy and medication and it's much better now, but it doesn't seem like your wife is ready to seek that out for herself.
posted by batter_my_heart at 11:08 PM on May 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
You have to leave. Even if she improves for a while, this is a baseline that is entirely impossible to live with. There is too much here, an entire psychological structure of her needing total control over you, not a behavior or two that can be adjusted. In this stranger's opinion do not risk bringing kids into this, hoping that it will never revert to this structure -- it's not worth the risk, and once you have kids you are both tied together for life, and might have to constantly negotiate how she controls them too.
posted by velveeta underground at 11:57 PM on May 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by velveeta underground at 11:57 PM on May 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
Your wife sounds like a controlling, emotionally abusive nightmare. Dearest OP, it is time to DTMFA already. As recommended above, print this out and hie thee to a therapist. There must be a reason why you ended up with this person as your spouse. It’s a fine idea to unpack that part before you start dating again and potentially end up with abusive girlfriend/wife number two. Consider going to Al-Anon if you have alcoholism or addiction among your friends or family members. Those of us who grew up with alcoholic parents, for example, tend to be terrible at boundaries and expect to be treated badly and sometimes seek it out unconsciously. It is not your fault that you are being treated badly but it is in your power to change it by saying no to continued abuse. Like others, I am curious if your wife behaved this way while the two of you were dating or if this is a sudden change but that is just my human curiosity and does not change my recommendation.
Life is short. It is not your job to rehabilitate your wife nor to change her behaviors. That would be impossible even if you tried. Go talk to an attorney, a good one; go talk to a therapist, a good one; go do what you need to do to take care of yourself. You are not obligated to suffer any more than you have already. By all means research emotional abuse and related topics so you don’t fold when your wife does everything in her power to convince you that she will change. Document her behavior and her comments, share them with a close friend or family member so that when she tries to gaslight you she will fail.
Also, it is entirely possible that your wife might be destined to have a delightful relationship with an entirely different person without changing anything about herself. You don’t have to think of her as a monster to be free of her. It’s OK to decide that the two of you are just a bad match. It’s OK to decide that you’re a bad match now, regardless of how it felt earlier. That you are miserable and expect to remain miserable is reason enough to leave. You don’t need her permission, you don’t need anyone’s permission in order to make a better life for yourself. You are not responsible for her happiness or her life and you never were. In my experience, people who are less healthy emotionally tend to want to blame other people for their feelings. If that happens, don’t fall for it. You do you. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 12:53 AM on May 4, 2018 [24 favorites]
Life is short. It is not your job to rehabilitate your wife nor to change her behaviors. That would be impossible even if you tried. Go talk to an attorney, a good one; go talk to a therapist, a good one; go do what you need to do to take care of yourself. You are not obligated to suffer any more than you have already. By all means research emotional abuse and related topics so you don’t fold when your wife does everything in her power to convince you that she will change. Document her behavior and her comments, share them with a close friend or family member so that when she tries to gaslight you she will fail.
Also, it is entirely possible that your wife might be destined to have a delightful relationship with an entirely different person without changing anything about herself. You don’t have to think of her as a monster to be free of her. It’s OK to decide that the two of you are just a bad match. It’s OK to decide that you’re a bad match now, regardless of how it felt earlier. That you are miserable and expect to remain miserable is reason enough to leave. You don’t need her permission, you don’t need anyone’s permission in order to make a better life for yourself. You are not responsible for her happiness or her life and you never were. In my experience, people who are less healthy emotionally tend to want to blame other people for their feelings. If that happens, don’t fall for it. You do you. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 12:53 AM on May 4, 2018 [24 favorites]
Was she a control freak before your marriage? If not, is it possible that there is something really wrong with her - like a brain tumor, or hormone imbalance. Would she see a doctor - then a psychiatrist?
You have become pretty well acquainted with her family. Does she copy her mother or dad?
posted by Cranberry at 1:07 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
You have become pretty well acquainted with her family. Does she copy her mother or dad?
posted by Cranberry at 1:07 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
This sounds like very clear cut emotional abuse, and either way, you should divorce asap.
However, some context will help us advising on the specifics:
1) How long did you date for before you knew her?
2) Did you live with her before you married her?
3) Did any of these signs show before you got married?
posted by moiraine at 1:10 AM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
However, some context will help us advising on the specifics:
1) How long did you date for before you knew her?
2) Did you live with her before you married her?
3) Did any of these signs show before you got married?
posted by moiraine at 1:10 AM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
One thing that really stood out to me about your question is how much you're doubting yourself and your judgement. You say things like this:
"I can't decide if these are severe enough to consider ending a marriage"
"am I describing behaviors that could qualify as marriage dealbreakers"
"I mean is this a normal husband-wife dynamic and I'm just overly sensitive"
and it sounds like you don't trust yourself to know whether this is bad or not. Like, you're aware that there exists somewhere out there an objective bar of 'bad enough to leave', but you don't trust yourself to know what that is. You don't even trust yourself to know if this is normal or not.
That doubt is part of how abuse works. It is a result of her continued campaign to make you question and disparage yourself about, well, everything. Even if you were prone to self-doubt before this relationship, this dynamic will have massively increased it. You are told that you can't trust your own judgement about your clothes, your cooking, your teeth, how your smell, your taste in music, on and on and on and on and on. You say you're exhausted because every time you think you've figured out what she wants she moves the goalposts - but your total mental exhaustion is itself the aim she's going for, here. It's not separate to what she wants. It is what she wants.
I think you should listen to the part of you that has, even through all this self-doubt, identified that this is emotional abuse. You know it's abuse, and you know you're miserable. That's all you need. Trust yourself.
posted by Catseye at 1:34 AM on May 4, 2018 [32 favorites]
"I can't decide if these are severe enough to consider ending a marriage"
"am I describing behaviors that could qualify as marriage dealbreakers"
"I mean is this a normal husband-wife dynamic and I'm just overly sensitive"
and it sounds like you don't trust yourself to know whether this is bad or not. Like, you're aware that there exists somewhere out there an objective bar of 'bad enough to leave', but you don't trust yourself to know what that is. You don't even trust yourself to know if this is normal or not.
That doubt is part of how abuse works. It is a result of her continued campaign to make you question and disparage yourself about, well, everything. Even if you were prone to self-doubt before this relationship, this dynamic will have massively increased it. You are told that you can't trust your own judgement about your clothes, your cooking, your teeth, how your smell, your taste in music, on and on and on and on and on. You say you're exhausted because every time you think you've figured out what she wants she moves the goalposts - but your total mental exhaustion is itself the aim she's going for, here. It's not separate to what she wants. It is what she wants.
I think you should listen to the part of you that has, even through all this self-doubt, identified that this is emotional abuse. You know it's abuse, and you know you're miserable. That's all you need. Trust yourself.
posted by Catseye at 1:34 AM on May 4, 2018 [32 favorites]
What do you like about your wife and why did you get married eleven months ago? That’s the question you need to answer.
Then, armed with this knowledge, talk to you wife and open up to her about your insatisfaction. Have you even tried?
posted by Kwadeng at 2:02 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Then, armed with this knowledge, talk to you wife and open up to her about your insatisfaction. Have you even tried?
posted by Kwadeng at 2:02 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
My wife and I have been married for 20 years. We've had times where we're giddy at each other's presence, and times where we're too tired or stressed to treat each other with as much kindness as we'd want. We've had times where we've communicated perfectly, and times where we've misunderstood each other. We've had times where we can both get everything we want, and times where each of us has had to sacrifice for the other. All of this I classify as a normal "For better or for worse."
We have never -- not for one second -- treated each other with the cruelty and contempt your wife has shown you.
That is not normal. You deserve better. I'm sure you are as flawed and imperfect as all of us, but you deserve somebody who will treat your flaws with compassion, and whose own flaws will not make you miserable and resentful.
posted by yankeefog at 3:04 AM on May 4, 2018 [41 favorites]
We have never -- not for one second -- treated each other with the cruelty and contempt your wife has shown you.
That is not normal. You deserve better. I'm sure you are as flawed and imperfect as all of us, but you deserve somebody who will treat your flaws with compassion, and whose own flaws will not make you miserable and resentful.
posted by yankeefog at 3:04 AM on May 4, 2018 [41 favorites]
Even if 100 outsiders/therapists/family say you're overreacting, it's perfectly fine for YOU to not be okay with a situation and end it.
Having said that, I was a lot like your wife when my boyfriend moved in, so I want to add some perspective: She does not hesitate to criticize the way I dress (she is adamant that she picks out my clothes for me), the shoes I wear, the way I workout, the way I eat, the way I fold laundry, the way I cook, the way I put dishes in the dishwasher, the way I put the toilet paper on the roll, the music I want to listen to, the car I drive, the things I like to do with my friends, the way I groom myself, that my teeth are yellow, that my nose-hairs are too long, that I smell
Once my fellow moved in with me, he put aside his good manners and I saw how he really lived, which shocked and disgusted me. He slurped and chewed like an animal, picked his teeth with steak knives at the table, wore filthy smelly gym clothes 24/7 (even to family events), never brushed or flossed and had nasty teeth, would go days without bathing, would cook enough food for himself and leave pots out, tossed everything in the dishwasher in such a way that nothing would get clean, thought opening his mouth in the (rare) shower counted as complete dental hygiene, put tp on top of the roll but not actually hang it, insisted on playing his driving mix in the car every single time (one can only hear Born to Run so many times), spent hours/days/weeks tinkering with his 160,000 mile car while constantly complaining what a piece of crap it was but would not entertain getting a new one even though he could absolutely afford it, and would spend time scouring neighborhood garbage for clothes and shoes. We live in a small suburban town where neighbors are friends and it was embarrassing as hell to have neighbors mention they saw him tearing through their garbage. Like a pet cat, he would leave me his carefully scouted "treasures" like broken appliances, smelly and worn running shoes, and one time, a shredded armchair that mice had made a home in. He expected me to thank him for this thoughtfulness.
For a long time, I tried to talk about some of this stuff but he would double down that I wasn't perfect and worse, was an elitist hypercritical nag. It didn't take long for me not to want to have physical contact or spend time with his family--essentially, I didn't want to spend time with him.
I suggested counseling--he refused--and although it was a pretty unpleasant breakup, it was the right thing to do.
The word I later discovered, and which you seem to be living with, is contempt, and when that's the biggest emotion one partner has toward the other, you need to end everything. So just end it.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:25 AM on May 4, 2018 [59 favorites]
Having said that, I was a lot like your wife when my boyfriend moved in, so I want to add some perspective: She does not hesitate to criticize the way I dress (she is adamant that she picks out my clothes for me), the shoes I wear, the way I workout, the way I eat, the way I fold laundry, the way I cook, the way I put dishes in the dishwasher, the way I put the toilet paper on the roll, the music I want to listen to, the car I drive, the things I like to do with my friends, the way I groom myself, that my teeth are yellow, that my nose-hairs are too long, that I smell
Once my fellow moved in with me, he put aside his good manners and I saw how he really lived, which shocked and disgusted me. He slurped and chewed like an animal, picked his teeth with steak knives at the table, wore filthy smelly gym clothes 24/7 (even to family events), never brushed or flossed and had nasty teeth, would go days without bathing, would cook enough food for himself and leave pots out, tossed everything in the dishwasher in such a way that nothing would get clean, thought opening his mouth in the (rare) shower counted as complete dental hygiene, put tp on top of the roll but not actually hang it, insisted on playing his driving mix in the car every single time (one can only hear Born to Run so many times), spent hours/days/weeks tinkering with his 160,000 mile car while constantly complaining what a piece of crap it was but would not entertain getting a new one even though he could absolutely afford it, and would spend time scouring neighborhood garbage for clothes and shoes. We live in a small suburban town where neighbors are friends and it was embarrassing as hell to have neighbors mention they saw him tearing through their garbage. Like a pet cat, he would leave me his carefully scouted "treasures" like broken appliances, smelly and worn running shoes, and one time, a shredded armchair that mice had made a home in. He expected me to thank him for this thoughtfulness.
For a long time, I tried to talk about some of this stuff but he would double down that I wasn't perfect and worse, was an elitist hypercritical nag. It didn't take long for me not to want to have physical contact or spend time with his family--essentially, I didn't want to spend time with him.
I suggested counseling--he refused--and although it was a pretty unpleasant breakup, it was the right thing to do.
The word I later discovered, and which you seem to be living with, is contempt, and when that's the biggest emotion one partner has toward the other, you need to end everything. So just end it.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:25 AM on May 4, 2018 [59 favorites]
This woman is awful. Bail.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:46 AM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by DarlingBri at 3:46 AM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm so sorry, this sounds awful, I think you really need to get out. Protect yourself, talk to a lawyer, disentangle your finances if you can, and get out. And do not have children with this person, she will treat them the same way, and as hard as this treatment is for you to take, it would be just so much worse for a child. I would not want to spend another minute with this person, but the best course of action is really to prepare for the split, because when she finds out she is losing the control she has on you she will probably try her best to get back at you. Be safe. You do not deserve this treatment.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:56 AM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:56 AM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
It was hard and brave to ask this question. I'm really sorry you had to, but also glad you did.
Your partner should give you room to grow. This relationship sounds like it's cutting you down and shrinking you and your life. I'm so sorry for all those things she has said about your appearance, your choices, your self. It can be very damaging and demoralizing to hear those kind of things. They aren't true. They're about cutting you down. That is not normal or healthy. You deserve to be cherished, absolutely and unconditionally. And she has escalated: she grabbed you in public and yanked you around. That is unacceptable.
Whether the label "abuse" is useful or not for you is up to you to decide, but your experience matches much of my experience in an abusive relationship. Her escalation to physical means of control, yanking your arm at the concert, after what sounds like a whole lot of verbal control leading up to that, is a classic progression. I do not want to alarm you but people like your wife tend to get worse, not better, over time in a relationship. They escalate more often and raise the stakes more as time goes on. And they really ramp it up when you leave.
Do not go to couples counseling. That is not a safe place for relationships like this. I'd suggest individual therapy for you. And when you leave, it will be ugly. She will not want you to go. It can be a very dangerous time, the exit. Do what you can to quietly set up your own support system before you leave, including seeing an individual therapist, talking quietly with friends, stocking up money in a secret account so you can get your own place. Do not tell her your new location.
Take care of yourself. You are worthy of love and support. I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been there and it is hell. You can get out. It's ok to walk away. Take care.
posted by sockermom at 4:03 AM on May 4, 2018 [27 favorites]
Your partner should give you room to grow. This relationship sounds like it's cutting you down and shrinking you and your life. I'm so sorry for all those things she has said about your appearance, your choices, your self. It can be very damaging and demoralizing to hear those kind of things. They aren't true. They're about cutting you down. That is not normal or healthy. You deserve to be cherished, absolutely and unconditionally. And she has escalated: she grabbed you in public and yanked you around. That is unacceptable.
Whether the label "abuse" is useful or not for you is up to you to decide, but your experience matches much of my experience in an abusive relationship. Her escalation to physical means of control, yanking your arm at the concert, after what sounds like a whole lot of verbal control leading up to that, is a classic progression. I do not want to alarm you but people like your wife tend to get worse, not better, over time in a relationship. They escalate more often and raise the stakes more as time goes on. And they really ramp it up when you leave.
Do not go to couples counseling. That is not a safe place for relationships like this. I'd suggest individual therapy for you. And when you leave, it will be ugly. She will not want you to go. It can be a very dangerous time, the exit. Do what you can to quietly set up your own support system before you leave, including seeing an individual therapist, talking quietly with friends, stocking up money in a secret account so you can get your own place. Do not tell her your new location.
Take care of yourself. You are worthy of love and support. I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been there and it is hell. You can get out. It's ok to walk away. Take care.
posted by sockermom at 4:03 AM on May 4, 2018 [27 favorites]
I've left relationships that were much less emotionally abusive than what you describe (but still somewhat emotionally abusive) and have zero regrets; even five years after the last one ended, having been happily partnered with someone loving and kind in the meantime, I can still feel the relief and lightness of not having to deal with That Dude any more - and we only casually dated for a year. You don't need justifications or input from internet strangers before you're allowed to leave this marriage, but in case it helps, this internet stranger thinks you should feel no remorse about leaving this marriage.
Nthing not to have kids with this person, and make sure you use protection if your sex life does reignite at all - I grew up with parents who were hypercritical and impossible to please similar to the way you describe your wife, and I'm nearly 30 and still have severe PTSD symptoms from the experience. Both you and any potential future children deserve better than this.
posted by terretu at 4:04 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Nthing not to have kids with this person, and make sure you use protection if your sex life does reignite at all - I grew up with parents who were hypercritical and impossible to please similar to the way you describe your wife, and I'm nearly 30 and still have severe PTSD symptoms from the experience. Both you and any potential future children deserve better than this.
posted by terretu at 4:04 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
I agree with others, this is abuse, and for your own best interests, you need to end this relationship.
Please do not be manipulated into continuing it. If your spouse reacts poorly against a divorce, this is just manipulation and a continuation of the abuse. A therapist will help you to learn how to sort your own self-care thoughts, from those that your spouse is attempting to spark in you in order to control you further.
Very best of luck.
posted by carter at 4:12 AM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Please do not be manipulated into continuing it. If your spouse reacts poorly against a divorce, this is just manipulation and a continuation of the abuse. A therapist will help you to learn how to sort your own self-care thoughts, from those that your spouse is attempting to spark in you in order to control you further.
Very best of luck.
posted by carter at 4:12 AM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I was with someone like this once and it got worse, not better, with couples therapy.
Leave her, file for divorce. sockermom's advice about preparing as much as you can in advance and not giving any of that info to your wife is soild. I would also add that when it comes time to move out you do it when she's not at home (take a day off work and don't tell her you're moving out until everything is unloaded at the new place.) Make copies of all legal paperwork and store them elsewhere. Once you're safely moved out, then serve her with the divorce papers (the courts do this for you via a process server.)
posted by eustacescrubb at 4:21 AM on May 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
Leave her, file for divorce. sockermom's advice about preparing as much as you can in advance and not giving any of that info to your wife is soild. I would also add that when it comes time to move out you do it when she's not at home (take a day off work and don't tell her you're moving out until everything is unloaded at the new place.) Make copies of all legal paperwork and store them elsewhere. Once you're safely moved out, then serve her with the divorce papers (the courts do this for you via a process server.)
posted by eustacescrubb at 4:21 AM on May 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
It was always my understanding that the "worse" in "for better or for worse" was about the joint luck that you had as a couple as opposed to being about how you were treating each other (i.e., "oh, you lost your job? I'm outta here").
I mean, maybe I'm wrong about that, but if that helps you frame the situation in your own head such that you are able to see this situation for what it is - which is that someone is treating you horribly - then please start thinking of it that way.
You are not obligated to accept someone's cruelty for you just becuase of a marriage vow. If anything, you can point to the parts of the marriage vow that she is violating - she has broken that contract, not you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:37 AM on May 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
I mean, maybe I'm wrong about that, but if that helps you frame the situation in your own head such that you are able to see this situation for what it is - which is that someone is treating you horribly - then please start thinking of it that way.
You are not obligated to accept someone's cruelty for you just becuase of a marriage vow. If anything, you can point to the parts of the marriage vow that she is violating - she has broken that contract, not you.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:37 AM on May 4, 2018 [33 favorites]
There's really only one response on here that approaches what her side might be. Sometimes MeFi becomes an echo chamber for "omg abuse" and we forget that you're human and maybe you're really good at painting yourself as a victim without objectively detailing your own flaws.
So look. If you're this unhappy but you think that maybe, just maybe, you're not perfect and she's not a total demon even if she's more wrong than you...then you need to go to couple's counseling.
Find a reputable counselor you feel comfortable with and issue an ultimatum. You both go for as long as necessary or you file for divorce. You have to be ready to actually file for divorce, so do some research on that and figure out your action plan if she refuses counseling.
posted by ticktickatick at 4:59 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
So look. If you're this unhappy but you think that maybe, just maybe, you're not perfect and she's not a total demon even if she's more wrong than you...then you need to go to couple's counseling.
Find a reputable counselor you feel comfortable with and issue an ultimatum. You both go for as long as necessary or you file for divorce. You have to be ready to actually file for divorce, so do some research on that and figure out your action plan if she refuses counseling.
posted by ticktickatick at 4:59 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
If she is convinced the problem is not her, you've got nothing to work with. It would be better to cut your losses and get out now before your lives end up more enmeshed. Also nthing that you do not want to have kids with this woman. It's sad that she grew up in an emotionally abusive and controlling household, and you don't want that cycle repeating with your kids. That sort of insidious emotional abuse will either leave them with crippling self esteem issues that they will spend years of their lives fixing, or worse, turn them into controlling emotional abusers because that's how they have been taught to do relationships.
posted by jazzbaby at 5:02 AM on May 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by jazzbaby at 5:02 AM on May 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
You are being abused and you need to leave.
I have been in your shoes. The specifics were different (honestly not that different though) but the general pattern of control, isolation, jeslousy and belittlement was absolutely the same. I got as far as becoming engaged to my abusive partner, and can only imagine how trapped and miserable I'd feel now if I'd gone through with the marriage.
Reading your question made my whole body clench up defensively. This is abuse and you need not and should not tolerate it.
Please don't stop to try and fix things, it will not work. A healthy, mutually-respectful partnership is not what your wife wants. What she wants is someone she can control, someone she can inflict her own internal unhappiness on. You are a prisoner in an invisible cage, and any attempt to undo that will be seen as an attack. You already know how she is when she feels you fighting against her control—it's not worth your sanity.
Please just quietly find a divorce lawyer, arrange for new lodgings (whether an apartment, a room at a friend or family member's house, whatever works) move out (ideally when she's not home) and then tell her that it's over and serve her the divorce papers.
Protect yourself. Free yourself. As soon as you're on the outside of this you will feel immensely better, I promise. Healing and recovering completely will be a long road, but you will immediately feel a great improvement. Good luck, stay strong, you can do this.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:07 AM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
I have been in your shoes. The specifics were different (honestly not that different though) but the general pattern of control, isolation, jeslousy and belittlement was absolutely the same. I got as far as becoming engaged to my abusive partner, and can only imagine how trapped and miserable I'd feel now if I'd gone through with the marriage.
Reading your question made my whole body clench up defensively. This is abuse and you need not and should not tolerate it.
Please don't stop to try and fix things, it will not work. A healthy, mutually-respectful partnership is not what your wife wants. What she wants is someone she can control, someone she can inflict her own internal unhappiness on. You are a prisoner in an invisible cage, and any attempt to undo that will be seen as an attack. You already know how she is when she feels you fighting against her control—it's not worth your sanity.
Please just quietly find a divorce lawyer, arrange for new lodgings (whether an apartment, a room at a friend or family member's house, whatever works) move out (ideally when she's not home) and then tell her that it's over and serve her the divorce papers.
Protect yourself. Free yourself. As soon as you're on the outside of this you will feel immensely better, I promise. Healing and recovering completely will be a long road, but you will immediately feel a great improvement. Good luck, stay strong, you can do this.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:07 AM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
On the couples counselling thing, it's specifically not recommended for abusive relationships (another take here).
posted by terretu at 5:09 AM on May 4, 2018 [18 favorites]
posted by terretu at 5:09 AM on May 4, 2018 [18 favorites]
I wanted to represent what her side of the situation could feel like, but did not strongly stress the more important part, which is that everything my guy did could be perceived as perfectly fine and unique ways of navigating life. It just drove me insane.
What mattered is that I personally could not stand any of it, and I became increasingly contemptuous of him to the point where he really couldn't do anything right in my eyes. It was not a salvageable relationship.
This may be similar to how she feels about you, and I'm sorry, but it's unlikely she can move past these feelings.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:12 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
What mattered is that I personally could not stand any of it, and I became increasingly contemptuous of him to the point where he really couldn't do anything right in my eyes. It was not a salvageable relationship.
This may be similar to how she feels about you, and I'm sorry, but it's unlikely she can move past these feelings.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:12 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Whether this is abuse or not is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if this is just your perception.
You don’t want to be there. Leave.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:14 AM on May 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
You don’t want to be there. Leave.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:14 AM on May 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Contempt is the death of love. This is not healthy, and after only 11 months I would say go.
posted by 41swans at 5:17 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by 41swans at 5:17 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
when I vowed to love my wife "For better or for worse", is what I'm describing qualify as "worse" or am I describing behaviors that could qualify as marriage dealbreakers?
When I vowed to love my wife for better or for worse, the kind of better and worse I had in mind at the time (and the way I've always read that particular vow) was about the external circumstances we found ourselves facing together, rather than having anything to do with the way we treated each other.
Marriage is supposed to be a relationship built on mutual love, trust and respect, none of which involves taking on the role of being your partner's punching bag or doormat.
If my marriage had devolved into an emotionally abusive nightmare like the one you've described, I'd consider my wife to have broken her vow many times over, the marriage therefore de facto dissolved, and the formal processes of dissolution to be mere administrative matters that I would pursue without a second thought or backward glance.
posted by flabdablet at 5:32 AM on May 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
When I vowed to love my wife for better or for worse, the kind of better and worse I had in mind at the time (and the way I've always read that particular vow) was about the external circumstances we found ourselves facing together, rather than having anything to do with the way we treated each other.
Marriage is supposed to be a relationship built on mutual love, trust and respect, none of which involves taking on the role of being your partner's punching bag or doormat.
If my marriage had devolved into an emotionally abusive nightmare like the one you've described, I'd consider my wife to have broken her vow many times over, the marriage therefore de facto dissolved, and the formal processes of dissolution to be mere administrative matters that I would pursue without a second thought or backward glance.
posted by flabdablet at 5:32 AM on May 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
For those who are in doubt as to whether or not this is in fact abuse, I invite you to re-read the question as if it were written by a wife about her husband. Asker, if you are having trouble seeing how not-OK this behavior is, consider whether you would ever consider it acceptable to behave this way yourself.
What we see in this question is a deep and pervasive pattern of control and isolation, and a spouse who uses belittlement and conflict to enforce it. This is not a "couples counseling" situation, this is a "get out while you still can" situation.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:36 AM on May 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
What we see in this question is a deep and pervasive pattern of control and isolation, and a spouse who uses belittlement and conflict to enforce it. This is not a "couples counseling" situation, this is a "get out while you still can" situation.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:36 AM on May 4, 2018 [7 favorites]
ok, but "Who's at fault" is irrelevant to the OP's core question of whether they should try and make this marriage work.
OP, you are fundamentally unhappy, and it doesn't sound like you are going to be happy in this marriage, even if you put in as much effort as you are willing and able to try and make this thing work. Marriage is a partnership, and your marriage ain't that.
I'm sorry. Based on your description, I don't think this marriage can or should be saved.
posted by duffell at 5:39 AM on May 4, 2018
OP, you are fundamentally unhappy, and it doesn't sound like you are going to be happy in this marriage, even if you put in as much effort as you are willing and able to try and make this thing work. Marriage is a partnership, and your marriage ain't that.
I'm sorry. Based on your description, I don't think this marriage can or should be saved.
posted by duffell at 5:39 AM on May 4, 2018
I always thought the "worse" meant stuff like drought, plague, layoffs.
This sounds awful and honestly it sounds like she's miserable and taking it out on you. Please get out.
posted by bunderful at 5:43 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
This sounds awful and honestly it sounds like she's miserable and taking it out on you. Please get out.
posted by bunderful at 5:43 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Once my fellow moved in with me, he put aside his good manners and I saw how he really lived, which shocked and disgusted me.
So here’s the thing. I think absolutely because of how women are generally socialized compared to how men are generally socialized, the first time a man raised in America lives with someone who is not their mother, there can sometimes be a...process of having to show them how to jointly care for a household, how to engage in hygiene, etc. There’s a reason “bachelor household” is a thing, and it’s not necessarily abusive if the first time a man is living with someone else, there’s a large learning curve.
But the key to it being healthy is how it’s expressed. When I got married, my husband was a total “bachelor” but I didn’t make him feel bad about it. He had terrible friends that routinely had DUIs, but I didn’t say “your friends are horrible”, I just made sure to invite different people who I knew he would also enjoy. He wore socks for days even when they were smelly, but I didn’t say “this is gross” just “oh, I washed new socks! Here they are!” It’s not about the fact that your wife wants you to change - that part is normal. It’s about how she expresses it. And also sometimes how she handles it when you don’t want to change. My husband has crooked teeth as a result of not having had corrective dental care as a kid. I said “hey do you want to get that taken care of” and he said “no, it doesn’t bother me” and I just let it go, because it’s not my mouth. It’s okay to push back.
The /other/ stuff you’ve written sounds not great though, but I join the crowd asking for clarity - why did you get married? What was it like before?
posted by corb at 5:56 AM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
So here’s the thing. I think absolutely because of how women are generally socialized compared to how men are generally socialized, the first time a man raised in America lives with someone who is not their mother, there can sometimes be a...process of having to show them how to jointly care for a household, how to engage in hygiene, etc. There’s a reason “bachelor household” is a thing, and it’s not necessarily abusive if the first time a man is living with someone else, there’s a large learning curve.
But the key to it being healthy is how it’s expressed. When I got married, my husband was a total “bachelor” but I didn’t make him feel bad about it. He had terrible friends that routinely had DUIs, but I didn’t say “your friends are horrible”, I just made sure to invite different people who I knew he would also enjoy. He wore socks for days even when they were smelly, but I didn’t say “this is gross” just “oh, I washed new socks! Here they are!” It’s not about the fact that your wife wants you to change - that part is normal. It’s about how she expresses it. And also sometimes how she handles it when you don’t want to change. My husband has crooked teeth as a result of not having had corrective dental care as a kid. I said “hey do you want to get that taken care of” and he said “no, it doesn’t bother me” and I just let it go, because it’s not my mouth. It’s okay to push back.
The /other/ stuff you’ve written sounds not great though, but I join the crowd asking for clarity - why did you get married? What was it like before?
posted by corb at 5:56 AM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
We are hearing this from your side, which I find very believable. But you married her, and for reasons, right? Therapy. For just you if she won't go with you. Pretty sure you're going to end this marriage, but an outside opinion will help you decide and feel better about the decision.
Right now, start documenting finances, make copies of stuff and keep it at work. She sounds like she might make it a vicious process.
posted by theora55 at 6:19 AM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Right now, start documenting finances, make copies of stuff and keep it at work. She sounds like she might make it a vicious process.
posted by theora55 at 6:19 AM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sometimes the transition from engagement to marriage, or the birth of a first child is the trigger for abusive behavior. Briefly, the abusive partner now sees the other as ‘trapped’ and therefore it’s now ok to reveal the true colors. Ask me how I know.
posted by Doc_Sock at 6:42 AM on May 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by Doc_Sock at 6:42 AM on May 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
Your wife is unbalanced and you need to GTFO right now. (And I say this is as someone who has anxiety that does manifest in my own relationship.)
She picks out your clothes for you? She tells you that your teeth are yellow? Yeah, fuck that noise.
I agree with Cranberry that if these behaviors are new they could conceivably be a symptom of a health problem, but that doesn't mean you should stay. If you feel that any part of the relationship is salvageable, you might tell her, "The way you're treating me is untenable. If you haven't seen a doctor and a psychiatrist within 2 weeks, I'm moving out."
posted by schroedingersgirl at 6:45 AM on May 4, 2018
She picks out your clothes for you? She tells you that your teeth are yellow? Yeah, fuck that noise.
I agree with Cranberry that if these behaviors are new they could conceivably be a symptom of a health problem, but that doesn't mean you should stay. If you feel that any part of the relationship is salvageable, you might tell her, "The way you're treating me is untenable. If you haven't seen a doctor and a psychiatrist within 2 weeks, I'm moving out."
posted by schroedingersgirl at 6:45 AM on May 4, 2018
This sounds terrible and for whatever it is worth I think you should end it immediately. If you aren't ready to do that, at least please start therapy so that you have someone to talk to about the whole thing.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:48 AM on May 4, 2018
posted by Dip Flash at 6:48 AM on May 4, 2018
This hurts my heart to read. I'm so sorry.
I stayed in a marriage like this for 25 years, specifically guilting myself over the better/worse/sickness/health vow, and always finding reasons to stick with it, and convincing myself that things would get better, while they only got worse.
Near the end of the marriage we were in counseling. She insisted we go because she wanted the counselor to "straighten me out." Once she saw the counselor was requiring changes from her as well, she stopped going. I kept the appointments and the counselor told me, "You are in an untenable situation." So.... when the marriage counselor tells you it's time to get out, I guess it's time.
I have since realized that vows and covenants only count if all parties abide by the them. I'm sure your vows also had reference to being loving, and her behavior doesn't sound very loving.
Don't be me.
posted by The Deej at 7:26 AM on May 4, 2018 [24 favorites]
I stayed in a marriage like this for 25 years, specifically guilting myself over the better/worse/sickness/health vow, and always finding reasons to stick with it, and convincing myself that things would get better, while they only got worse.
Near the end of the marriage we were in counseling. She insisted we go because she wanted the counselor to "straighten me out." Once she saw the counselor was requiring changes from her as well, she stopped going. I kept the appointments and the counselor told me, "You are in an untenable situation." So.... when the marriage counselor tells you it's time to get out, I guess it's time.
I have since realized that vows and covenants only count if all parties abide by the them. I'm sure your vows also had reference to being loving, and her behavior doesn't sound very loving.
Don't be me.
posted by The Deej at 7:26 AM on May 4, 2018 [24 favorites]
Adding my voice to say...I don’t know about your vows but mine included “to love and to cherish.” I think she’s breaking the contract here. If she won’t address her part in things, all you can do is leave.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:42 AM on May 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 7:42 AM on May 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
And, I know that the Internet is not a certified therapist, and I'm not making any specific recommendations here, but it may be worth looking for sources on 'borderline personality disorder' (BPD) to see if this matches what you are experiencing from your spouse.
posted by carter at 8:03 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by carter at 8:03 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
The thing is that EVEN IF she's right and you're terrible, even if she's justified in never wanting to hang out with your family because they're terrible -- then you STILL need to leave, because she thinks you're terrible and is making you miserable. I mean, very best case, reading what you've written here, it's a fundamental mismatch. (Worst case, she's an abusive monster.) Either way, though, leave; and don't have any unprotected sex with her going forward.
(Therapy is for situations where partners love each other and are committed to staying together and need help to overcome communication stumbling blocks, or to learn behavioral tools to deal with specific problems. It isn't magic potion to replace people's personalities or make them love each other when they don't.)
[on edit - your specific question - "worse" is when bad stuff happens, like one of you gets sick or loses a job or fails to sell your book &c. It doesn't mean "when we treat each other like shit."]
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:04 AM on May 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
(Therapy is for situations where partners love each other and are committed to staying together and need help to overcome communication stumbling blocks, or to learn behavioral tools to deal with specific problems. It isn't magic potion to replace people's personalities or make them love each other when they don't.)
[on edit - your specific question - "worse" is when bad stuff happens, like one of you gets sick or loses a job or fails to sell your book &c. It doesn't mean "when we treat each other like shit."]
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:04 AM on May 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
IT sounds like yous have irreconcilable differences. Divorce. It doesn't have to be anyone's fault.
posted by WeekendJen at 8:14 AM on May 4, 2018
posted by WeekendJen at 8:14 AM on May 4, 2018
This kind of treatment is absolutely not OK. It is however, "normal" for some people.
There are many households who only handle problems via open conflict. Yelling, nagging, passive-aggressive behavior, abusive language and physical abuse are not in any way uncommon. This behavior is passed down to children, and it not only becomes normal for them, but it is the only way they know how to deal with their problems. This seems particularly true with men, at least in the US. Unlearning abusive behavior often requires a true commitment, a dedicated partner, and years, if not decades of effort. Many, many people either can't or won't do it.
In my mind, this is a fundamental, dealbreaker difference in personality, and that may be the case in your marriage. Assuming we've heard the full story, I think it's reasonable to continue only if the other person is dedicated to recognizing and correcting their behavior with professional help.
If you want to give them a chance, my advice to you is this:
* Lay out the stakes for them very explicitly, without getting into side arguments about individual issues. The overall behavior is not acceptable and will end your relationship if it doesn't change.
* You have not been able to reach a solution together. It's marriage counseling and behavior change or divorce. Their choice.
* Be prepared to leave. If this conversation results in conflict, which is likely, it's time to go.
* If you do go to counseling, look very closely at your own behavior, with the help of the marriage counselor. Make sure you're being honest with yourself about your role here.
* Follow through. It's easy to be on a behavior yo-yo for decades. If their behavior reverts, or the counseling stops without dramatic improvement, divorce.
posted by cnc at 8:36 AM on May 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
There are many households who only handle problems via open conflict. Yelling, nagging, passive-aggressive behavior, abusive language and physical abuse are not in any way uncommon. This behavior is passed down to children, and it not only becomes normal for them, but it is the only way they know how to deal with their problems. This seems particularly true with men, at least in the US. Unlearning abusive behavior often requires a true commitment, a dedicated partner, and years, if not decades of effort. Many, many people either can't or won't do it.
In my mind, this is a fundamental, dealbreaker difference in personality, and that may be the case in your marriage. Assuming we've heard the full story, I think it's reasonable to continue only if the other person is dedicated to recognizing and correcting their behavior with professional help.
If you want to give them a chance, my advice to you is this:
* Lay out the stakes for them very explicitly, without getting into side arguments about individual issues. The overall behavior is not acceptable and will end your relationship if it doesn't change.
* You have not been able to reach a solution together. It's marriage counseling and behavior change or divorce. Their choice.
* Be prepared to leave. If this conversation results in conflict, which is likely, it's time to go.
* If you do go to counseling, look very closely at your own behavior, with the help of the marriage counselor. Make sure you're being honest with yourself about your role here.
* Follow through. It's easy to be on a behavior yo-yo for decades. If their behavior reverts, or the counseling stops without dramatic improvement, divorce.
posted by cnc at 8:36 AM on May 4, 2018 [5 favorites]
When you're asking about being critical about you as a partner and human is "normal husband-wife dynamic " I want to tell you that the TONE, intent, and feelings matters here.
It would be a lie if I told you I hadn't said "Dude, you STINK" to my husband. But the thing is, it's with a laugh. He smells his pits and goes "Ew, yeah I need deodorant." The same way my pits smelled like onions for some reason and he smelled them and said "Uhg, gross. You don't even smell like my wife. Get outta here!"
But the thing is, we both laughed. Hard. It's not an assault on our character. It's just normal "humans smell sometimes and I'm glad you told me" thing.
This is not what's going on in your relationship. Your parter is saying you're gross and I bet constantly coming up with something you can improve on, in a demeaning tone. There's no laugh. There's no "Hey, I just got your back dude cause the pants are getting worn around the crotch so don't wear them." thing going on here. It's JUST attacks.
There's no "constructive" in this criticism. I highly doubt you could "return the favor" if there was a shirt you didn't think fit well on her.
You're not working as a team. She is being controlling. She is trying to make you jump when she says jump.
This is not how a marriage should be.
(Full disclosure, The Deej above is my dad. I lived with an abusive parent for 15 years. Please leave this situation.)
posted by Crystalinne at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2018 [18 favorites]
It would be a lie if I told you I hadn't said "Dude, you STINK" to my husband. But the thing is, it's with a laugh. He smells his pits and goes "Ew, yeah I need deodorant." The same way my pits smelled like onions for some reason and he smelled them and said "Uhg, gross. You don't even smell like my wife. Get outta here!"
But the thing is, we both laughed. Hard. It's not an assault on our character. It's just normal "humans smell sometimes and I'm glad you told me" thing.
This is not what's going on in your relationship. Your parter is saying you're gross and I bet constantly coming up with something you can improve on, in a demeaning tone. There's no laugh. There's no "Hey, I just got your back dude cause the pants are getting worn around the crotch so don't wear them." thing going on here. It's JUST attacks.
There's no "constructive" in this criticism. I highly doubt you could "return the favor" if there was a shirt you didn't think fit well on her.
You're not working as a team. She is being controlling. She is trying to make you jump when she says jump.
This is not how a marriage should be.
(Full disclosure, The Deej above is my dad. I lived with an abusive parent for 15 years. Please leave this situation.)
posted by Crystalinne at 8:52 AM on May 4, 2018 [18 favorites]
I don't usually recommend this... but maybe show her this post?
posted by AppleTurnover at 9:04 AM on May 4, 2018
posted by AppleTurnover at 9:04 AM on May 4, 2018
I would certainly call this emotional abuse, but no matter the label, your wife holds you in contempt and it will never get better. Run.
posted by The Gaffer at 9:38 AM on May 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by The Gaffer at 9:38 AM on May 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
I gotta acknowledge that I am only hearing one perspective here, but from your description it sounds like all four of the relationship "Danger Signs" are rampant an unchecked in your marriage. Statistically, research says that your marriage will most certainly fail without significant intervention and change. And if one of you is unwilling to recognize/change, that's almost impossible to overcome.
posted by cross_impact at 9:39 AM on May 4, 2018
posted by cross_impact at 9:39 AM on May 4, 2018
I've been married 36 years. My husband is a really nice person and I admire his character. I love him and I try to make his life pleasant. (But I'm a shitty housewife.) I'll admit our sex life has slowed way down lately now that we are both chubby and tired and are nearly 60 years old. (I state emphatically that it's not wrong to wish to have (mutually desired) sex on the regular. It feels great and can make you feel a more glowing connection to each other.)
When we say "for better or for worse", worse means job loss and depression or many trips out of town to take care of failing parents or a tornado rips the roof off of your house. It doesn't mean -- "Surprise, I'm a lot worse person than you thought. Fooled you, you're stuck now."
Many marital arguments about small things are about power, about who is in charge. This is the toughest fight to win or settle. In a 'war', both sides lose. And your wife doesn't seem particularly interested in diplomacy.
I want to gently push back a little on "constantly". Is she rushing over and correcting you a couple of times a day, or more like five times an hour? Is she picking out your outfit everyday (yuck) or twisting your arm about your choices when you go clothes shopping. (The latter seems somewhat more minor. However, she shouldn't get to prevail every time.)
Bottom line: It sounds like your wife doesn't care about you being happy. She wants to do whatever makes her happy. Also, her picky controllingness is really unpleasant. I think she could be allowed to offer fashion tips and encourage you to eat vegetables, but what you wear and what you eat and also what you do with whom on weekends and holidays are decisions that you get to make. That last decision set needs to be more mutual than the first two.
I'm always had a perhaps unhealthy wish to make an audio recording of bickering and try to figure out who said what. I mean I'd like a transcript of your recent arguments so I could underline what's fair and unfair.
I recommend DIVORCE, but if not divorce (if you are dead set against it) then counselling to work on communicating and problem solving without quickly escalating into fighting every time.
posted by puddledork at 10:05 AM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
When we say "for better or for worse", worse means job loss and depression or many trips out of town to take care of failing parents or a tornado rips the roof off of your house. It doesn't mean -- "Surprise, I'm a lot worse person than you thought. Fooled you, you're stuck now."
Many marital arguments about small things are about power, about who is in charge. This is the toughest fight to win or settle. In a 'war', both sides lose. And your wife doesn't seem particularly interested in diplomacy.
I want to gently push back a little on "constantly". Is she rushing over and correcting you a couple of times a day, or more like five times an hour? Is she picking out your outfit everyday (yuck) or twisting your arm about your choices when you go clothes shopping. (The latter seems somewhat more minor. However, she shouldn't get to prevail every time.)
Bottom line: It sounds like your wife doesn't care about you being happy. She wants to do whatever makes her happy. Also, her picky controllingness is really unpleasant. I think she could be allowed to offer fashion tips and encourage you to eat vegetables, but what you wear and what you eat and also what you do with whom on weekends and holidays are decisions that you get to make. That last decision set needs to be more mutual than the first two.
I'm always had a perhaps unhealthy wish to make an audio recording of bickering and try to figure out who said what. I mean I'd like a transcript of your recent arguments so I could underline what's fair and unfair.
I recommend DIVORCE, but if not divorce (if you are dead set against it) then counselling to work on communicating and problem solving without quickly escalating into fighting every time.
posted by puddledork at 10:05 AM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
If this is how she is in the honeymoon period, with no kid-related stress, and no parenting obligation to stop you from leaving, I can't imagine how awful she would become further along in a marriage. The only positive thing I see here is the jealousy story, as jealousy is a sign that she values you even if she doesn't trust you.
posted by w0mbat at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2018
posted by w0mbat at 10:36 AM on May 4, 2018
I am so sorry to read that you're spending your first year of married life embroiled in constant conflict that is making you feel terrible about yourself. (I mean, WTF?!) My advice is to find a therapist for yourself so that you have a safe space to talk over all these things you have told us with a dispassionate listener to guide you through the feeling terrible parts and to also find a lawyer, and whatever you do, do not allow pregnancy to happen with this person while you work your way toward what I see is an inevitable divorce. Short version? DTMFA. Good luck.
posted by Lynsey at 1:07 PM on May 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Lynsey at 1:07 PM on May 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
It's impossible and bad form to attempt any sort of diagnosis over the internet, but she sounds narcissistic in many ways.
If the problem is "not her" that means she won't change. Though she probably will get worse. So your options are to crumble under her onslaught or leave.
You pretty much said you hate her, every day. This does not sound salvageable. Protect yourself. Don't have a baby with her. I'd get a divorce if my theoretical SO treated me half this bad
posted by Jacen at 5:40 PM on May 4, 2018
If the problem is "not her" that means she won't change. Though she probably will get worse. So your options are to crumble under her onslaught or leave.
You pretty much said you hate her, every day. This does not sound salvageable. Protect yourself. Don't have a baby with her. I'd get a divorce if my theoretical SO treated me half this bad
posted by Jacen at 5:40 PM on May 4, 2018
Your wife sounds like she feels profoundly unsafe in the marriage. You describe the actions and reactions of an exceptionally fearful person.
We can't know the cause or suggest solutions because you don't say how long you dated or what she was like before marriage.
posted by jbenben at 6:35 PM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
We can't know the cause or suggest solutions because you don't say how long you dated or what she was like before marriage.
posted by jbenben at 6:35 PM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes this is a very bad sign that all of this is happening in the first year of your marriage. This sounds like a miserable relationship. My husband and I have been married for 18 months and we always joke about how easy marriage is, because it is at the moment (we know that in future there will probably be tough times). No, daily fighting is not normal.
I know it is possible to have a tough start to a marriage and for it to improve over time but I think this is the exception rather than the rule. More often, having a bad start means that your marriage will degenerate over time before eventually ending in divorce. You don't say anything about outside stressors but what will happen if you have kids, for example, if you already have such a 'pathological' dynamic?
If I were you I'd leave.
posted by thereader at 8:10 PM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I know it is possible to have a tough start to a marriage and for it to improve over time but I think this is the exception rather than the rule. More often, having a bad start means that your marriage will degenerate over time before eventually ending in divorce. You don't say anything about outside stressors but what will happen if you have kids, for example, if you already have such a 'pathological' dynamic?
If I were you I'd leave.
posted by thereader at 8:10 PM on May 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Just two additions to the vox populi.
1. Imagine if your little sister came to you and said everything you said in this post. Imagine your Mom recently got married and said all this to you. Imagine your best friend came to you and said it. What would you say to them?
2. My second husband's first wife was an awful lot like you're describing your wife here. The criticism, denigration, and contempt quickly escalated to physical abuse. It started out with grabbing his arm or pushing him around. It escalated to her throwing their children across a room and stabbing him in the shoulder with a pair of scissors because he had the audacity to try to stop arguing with her. (None of this is he said, she said; it's all well-documented by CPS and LEOs.)
When she's out of the house, pack your stuff and move it out. Do it in the middle of the night if you have to. Bring a crowd of friends and family to get it done fast. GTFO. Now.
posted by The Almighty Mommy Goddess at 10:11 PM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
1. Imagine if your little sister came to you and said everything you said in this post. Imagine your Mom recently got married and said all this to you. Imagine your best friend came to you and said it. What would you say to them?
2. My second husband's first wife was an awful lot like you're describing your wife here. The criticism, denigration, and contempt quickly escalated to physical abuse. It started out with grabbing his arm or pushing him around. It escalated to her throwing their children across a room and stabbing him in the shoulder with a pair of scissors because he had the audacity to try to stop arguing with her. (None of this is he said, she said; it's all well-documented by CPS and LEOs.)
When she's out of the house, pack your stuff and move it out. Do it in the middle of the night if you have to. Bring a crowd of friends and family to get it done fast. GTFO. Now.
posted by The Almighty Mommy Goddess at 10:11 PM on May 4, 2018 [6 favorites]
I kid you not, Iron maiden's run to the hills started playing in my head reading your description of your daily.
since you've landed in a spot where you have to essentially mind-read to live up to someone else's standards* or are sharing a life as you are with someone who doesn't like it that way, you're caught between a rock and a hard place.
there are really kind, fun, loving people out there to build a new life with. and i totes recommend therapy after you get out of this one though, so you don't carry these negatives into your next relationship(s). good luck!
Here. metal gods are speaking to you. pump it.
*excluding the scenario where you are a couch-bound-hygiene&house work-neglecting icky lazy bones – which i doubt – since ladies are approaching you in bars?
posted by speakeasy at 11:51 PM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
since you've landed in a spot where you have to essentially mind-read to live up to someone else's standards* or are sharing a life as you are with someone who doesn't like it that way, you're caught between a rock and a hard place.
there are really kind, fun, loving people out there to build a new life with. and i totes recommend therapy after you get out of this one though, so you don't carry these negatives into your next relationship(s). good luck!
Here. metal gods are speaking to you. pump it.
*excluding the scenario where you are a couch-bound-hygiene&house work-neglecting icky lazy bones – which i doubt – since ladies are approaching you in bars?
posted by speakeasy at 11:51 PM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
I've only read a few of the above 70 comments, but I imagine you're getting a lot of variations on the first response re "you need a divorce". And i agree wholeheartedly, if for no other reason than this:
She is not interested in couples therapy btw--she is convinced the problem is not her.
Life is too short to spend another day dealing with this fucking nonsense.
posted by she's not there at 12:31 AM on May 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
She is not interested in couples therapy btw--she is convinced the problem is not her.
Life is too short to spend another day dealing with this fucking nonsense.
posted by she's not there at 12:31 AM on May 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
Someone upthread suggested you show this thread to her. I'd advise against it - it's not going to convince her of anything and it will likely result in an escalation of the abusive behavior.
posted by eustacescrubb at 4:36 AM on May 5, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by eustacescrubb at 4:36 AM on May 5, 2018 [15 favorites]
Run, don’t walk. This isn’t normal, this isn’t healthy, this isn’t going to get any better.
posted by RainyJay at 7:45 AM on May 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by RainyJay at 7:45 AM on May 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is absolutely an abusive relationship, and it is not likely to improve. I'm so sorry you're going through this. You need to leave, ASAP.
posted by sarcasticah at 7:45 AM on May 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by sarcasticah at 7:45 AM on May 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Why did you marry her?
Why did she marry you?
Have you changed your behavior since you got married?
Has she changed her behavior since she got married?
I don't understand why you would marry someone who treats you this way nor why she would marry someone she thinks so poorly of. What drove the decision to marry and what changed?
posted by Jacqueline at 12:01 PM on May 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Why did she marry you?
Have you changed your behavior since you got married?
Has she changed her behavior since she got married?
I don't understand why you would marry someone who treats you this way nor why she would marry someone she thinks so poorly of. What drove the decision to marry and what changed?
posted by Jacqueline at 12:01 PM on May 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
My first marriage lasted eighteen months. The situation wasn't exactly analogous to yours, but this question was what finally made my mind up to ask for a divorce:
Which is the real version of the person I have married: the one I saw when we were dating, the version that convinced me to marry her, or the one she is now? Has she put on a mask, or taken one off?
Best of luck.
One other thing: divorce feels like an ending. It's not, it's a transition. I am happier now than I could ever have been in that relationship.
posted by Hogshead at 2:54 PM on May 5, 2018 [7 favorites]
Which is the real version of the person I have married: the one I saw when we were dating, the version that convinced me to marry her, or the one she is now? Has she put on a mask, or taken one off?
Best of luck.
One other thing: divorce feels like an ending. It's not, it's a transition. I am happier now than I could ever have been in that relationship.
posted by Hogshead at 2:54 PM on May 5, 2018 [7 favorites]
My first marriage sounded very much like this. It lasted over 5 years, until he cheated on me, because being moderately unhappy all the time didn't seem like a big enough reason to get divorced. Don't be like me. This relationship does not sound salvageable.
About 6 months after my first husband and I split up I met my current husband. We have been together for 12 years and even though it's not always sunshine and roses I am always grateful to have a true partner.
posted by apricot at 9:12 PM on May 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
About 6 months after my first husband and I split up I met my current husband. We have been together for 12 years and even though it's not always sunshine and roses I am always grateful to have a true partner.
posted by apricot at 9:12 PM on May 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you're in a situation that you're finding intolerable, and where you're fighting all the time, and where your partner is unwilling to discuss things and unwilling to see a therapist, then I don't see what you can do but end it. Sorry.
I also feel some people are being pretty harsh on you:
A lot of people asked what she was like before you married. You don't say, but lots of people are perfectly charming before marriage and turn abusive afterwards. I'm more familiar with men doing it, but it doesn't seem impossible that women might.
A few people suggested that she may have legitimate grounds to be criticising you. I re-read the original post carefully. it's possible that maybe you are a slob (no judgement, I'm not great myself). But even if she's got grounds there, and if she's got grounds to criticise your car because it's dangerous, and your shoes and clothes because you stole them from a dumpster, she's still picking at things (like your music and how you workout) that aren't really her business.
Add in the lack of sex, and the totally one-sided way she wants to spend time with her family and not yours, and you've got plenty of things that need to be resolved. If they can't be, it's best for both of you to cut your losses now.
(Plus you don't say how old you are. A lot of my friends got married in their 20s and divorced pretty quickly. They're all a lot happier than they were. Best wishes, whatever happens).
posted by Pink Frost at 2:41 AM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
I also feel some people are being pretty harsh on you:
A lot of people asked what she was like before you married. You don't say, but lots of people are perfectly charming before marriage and turn abusive afterwards. I'm more familiar with men doing it, but it doesn't seem impossible that women might.
A few people suggested that she may have legitimate grounds to be criticising you. I re-read the original post carefully. it's possible that maybe you are a slob (no judgement, I'm not great myself). But even if she's got grounds there, and if she's got grounds to criticise your car because it's dangerous, and your shoes and clothes because you stole them from a dumpster, she's still picking at things (like your music and how you workout) that aren't really her business.
Add in the lack of sex, and the totally one-sided way she wants to spend time with her family and not yours, and you've got plenty of things that need to be resolved. If they can't be, it's best for both of you to cut your losses now.
(Plus you don't say how old you are. A lot of my friends got married in their 20s and divorced pretty quickly. They're all a lot happier than they were. Best wishes, whatever happens).
posted by Pink Frost at 2:41 AM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
"Better or worse" is referring to the circumstances life throws at you, not the attitude of your partner. They are supposed to be on your team. This sounds very much like a "lock them down then isolate and control" pattern of abuse that others have described above. Get out now.
posted by domo at 11:08 AM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by domo at 11:08 AM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
Not worth it mate. Move on.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:55 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:55 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
I've seen a number of people (both men and women) "play nice" until their prey is "trapped." (Married or living together.) Reader, ask me which side I was on.
Some things, phrased nicely, are basic improvement/attraction. "Look, honey! Coffee is yellowing our teeth so here are White Strips!" This does not sound like what's happening.
Nope out of there with a quickness before she "accidentally" gets pregnant. Yeah. Sit with THAT thought for a while.
posted by cyndigo at 3:37 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
Some things, phrased nicely, are basic improvement/attraction. "Look, honey! Coffee is yellowing our teeth so here are White Strips!" This does not sound like what's happening.
Nope out of there with a quickness before she "accidentally" gets pregnant. Yeah. Sit with THAT thought for a while.
posted by cyndigo at 3:37 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
I agree with most everyone here that what you've written sounds concerning. But ultimately, we know a lot about what she has done and how she has acted, but we don't really know anything about you, your style of interaction with her, your relationship history and your parents' dynamic, your pre-marriage life together, etc. Those are all pretty important in getting a sense of what's happening here.
I'm going to suggest a possible route for further exploration/introspection via a series of questions. These aren't rhetorical or meant to be suggestive, they're meant to have you reflect therapy-style on the nature of your relationship, your style of addressing conflict, and what role, if any, you might play in what you've described. If I'm barking up the wrong tree, feel free to ignore.
whenever I choose not to be a doormat or pushover and actually defend myself--it just causes us to get into a big fight
How much of the time in your relationship do you spend being "a doormat or pushover"? Why do you feel the need to act that way? Is that what you believe a husband should do for a wife? Why is "actually defending yourself" a rare occurrence?
Can you envision what your relationship might look like (would it still exist? why or why not?) if you decided to never be a doormat or pushover, and decided to always defend yourself when it's warranted to do so? It sounds like she's not a doormat or pushover, and it sounds like she's quick to defend herself when she feels the need to. It might be worth investigating why she acts that way, why you don't act that way, and whether anything can be done about the difference in your conflict handling styles.
I've tried to just contain my emotions but it just causes me to silently resent her
Why and for what reason did you decide that "just containing your emotions" is something that you should try or something that might be viable in a relationship? Does she contain her emotions or does she freely express them? What would your relationship look like if both of you contained your emotions, or if both of you chose to readily and consistently express your emotions?
If I say or do anything that is in conflict with what she wants, her first reaction is always to 1). act annoyed/angry 2). challenge me and make me explain myself.
Is acting annoyed or angry at something your partner does 'bad' in your view? Is challenging your partner and making your partner explain his/her actions 'bad' in your view? Do you have a conflict-avoidant personality and feel overly pushed/prodded by her conflict-forward personality?
Here's an interesting chart (and link to text) on five different styles of interpersonal conflict management. It sounds like you might be "Accomodating" (low concern for self, high concern for other) while it sounds like she might be "Competing" (low concern for other, high concern for self).
She may feel like she needs to assert her dominance and extract concessions from you, because past relationships / family dynamics have taught her that this is what she needs to do. Conversely, you may feel like you need to be overly accomodating and bend over backwards to make her happy, because past relationships / family dynamics have taught you that this is what you need to do.
Coming towards some middle ground in how you both handle conflict in relationships could be instrumental in making this relationship work. Couples counseling could prove to be very enlightening for both of you, if you can both agree to take it seriously and open yourselves up to scrutiny and be willing to reflect on your behavioral styles and work on modifying them based on suggestions.
Good luck!
posted by naju at 7:32 PM on May 8, 2018
I'm going to suggest a possible route for further exploration/introspection via a series of questions. These aren't rhetorical or meant to be suggestive, they're meant to have you reflect therapy-style on the nature of your relationship, your style of addressing conflict, and what role, if any, you might play in what you've described. If I'm barking up the wrong tree, feel free to ignore.
whenever I choose not to be a doormat or pushover and actually defend myself--it just causes us to get into a big fight
How much of the time in your relationship do you spend being "a doormat or pushover"? Why do you feel the need to act that way? Is that what you believe a husband should do for a wife? Why is "actually defending yourself" a rare occurrence?
Can you envision what your relationship might look like (would it still exist? why or why not?) if you decided to never be a doormat or pushover, and decided to always defend yourself when it's warranted to do so? It sounds like she's not a doormat or pushover, and it sounds like she's quick to defend herself when she feels the need to. It might be worth investigating why she acts that way, why you don't act that way, and whether anything can be done about the difference in your conflict handling styles.
I've tried to just contain my emotions but it just causes me to silently resent her
Why and for what reason did you decide that "just containing your emotions" is something that you should try or something that might be viable in a relationship? Does she contain her emotions or does she freely express them? What would your relationship look like if both of you contained your emotions, or if both of you chose to readily and consistently express your emotions?
If I say or do anything that is in conflict with what she wants, her first reaction is always to 1). act annoyed/angry 2). challenge me and make me explain myself.
Is acting annoyed or angry at something your partner does 'bad' in your view? Is challenging your partner and making your partner explain his/her actions 'bad' in your view? Do you have a conflict-avoidant personality and feel overly pushed/prodded by her conflict-forward personality?
Here's an interesting chart (and link to text) on five different styles of interpersonal conflict management. It sounds like you might be "Accomodating" (low concern for self, high concern for other) while it sounds like she might be "Competing" (low concern for other, high concern for self).
She may feel like she needs to assert her dominance and extract concessions from you, because past relationships / family dynamics have taught her that this is what she needs to do. Conversely, you may feel like you need to be overly accomodating and bend over backwards to make her happy, because past relationships / family dynamics have taught you that this is what you need to do.
Coming towards some middle ground in how you both handle conflict in relationships could be instrumental in making this relationship work. Couples counseling could prove to be very enlightening for both of you, if you can both agree to take it seriously and open yourselves up to scrutiny and be willing to reflect on your behavioral styles and work on modifying them based on suggestions.
Good luck!
posted by naju at 7:32 PM on May 8, 2018
Response by poster: I am amazed at how many insightful, intelligent, and articulate people there are on this online community. To be honest, my first reaction was sadness--I only want to resort to divorce as an absolute last ditch resort. To delve a little deeper into the issue and address some of the questions raised by you all:
1). has she always been like this? to a certain degree "yes"; however, it has steadily been getting worse since we've gotten married. She has always been the tell-you-how-it-is, no-filter-over-her-mouth type of person complete with a side of sarcasm; however, only recently has it really started to bother me. In hindsight, I this is because there were far many more "good days" to balance out the days where she felt like being nasty towards me. Also in the beginning, she used to care about my feelings so whenever I let her know that she crossed the line, she was apologetic and remorseful. Fast forward to now and she just acts like I'm crazy for wanting to defend myself and have anger management issues for getting upset by her remarks. In addition, as you can see, each of her "opinions" of me in a vacuum are relatively benign, but taken as a whole paint the picture that she's trying to mold me into somebody who I am not. Also, I am noticing the toll that it is taking on me. First, my decision making skills are struggling. I've have gotten to the point where I'm constantly second guessing myself with even seemingly straightforward decisions & have even noticed that I become very anxious when I need to make a decision that will affect the both of us and she is not around (b/c I know if I didn't consult her & I chose option A--she would've chose option B). I used to be very care-free & easy going with a very mild temperament. Now I feel irritable and stressed out and I feel like being angry towards her is a daily occurrence. Finally, I am noticing that I am starting to reciprocate how she treats me. I've tried my best to reason with her to stop the Mother-Child relationship dynamic but since that clearly isn't working, I have started to treat her how she treats me just out of spite. I'll sometimes jump on the opportunity to make her feel bad about something. This couldn't be more UNLIKE me but I'm desperate for her to understand how she makes me feel. In summary, I don't like the person I am turning into since getting married.
2). Were you aware of her family dynamic? Yes, but not through direct observation--just based on what she told me it was like growing up. Her mom sounded controlling and her dad was very hard on her -- a tough-love--type of parenting style that eventually evolved into emotional neglect. Her main complaint about him (and why she resents him so much) is that he never took ownership for his problematic behavior and instead blamed everyone else & always assumed the victim role--a behavioral pattern my wife has certainly embodied. I thought that because she detested these certain qualities in her parents that she would be sure to live a life making sure not to repeat the same mistakes--but I'm finding this not to be the case.
3). Nowhere in your post did you say you love your wife: This is true. It's getting harder and harder to CHOOSE to love my wife. It's hard to love someone who you are battling with on a constant basis. I feel like too often we are enemies rather than lovers. But one thing I know is true: I WANT to love my wife so badly. I worry that each attack on my character contaminates this relationship just a little bit more and eventually all the love in my heart will be replaced by anger & resentment. That's why I am trying to be proactive.
4). What was your parent's marriage like? mom definitely wore the pants in that relationship. dad was very passive but he didn't act like the dynamic bothered him. They are still happily married and were good role models.
5). How long did you date before getting married? Almost 2 years
6). Did you live with her before getting married? Yes, we lived together for about a year before getting married.
7). You know this is emotional abuse but yet you exhibit self doubt and look to us for validation of your feelings: This is where I get hungup the most. I have never been married before so I can only base my experience on what I've heard from others. "Happy Wife Happy Life." "The woman is always right." "The fastest way to get a woman to stop having sex with you is to feed her wedding cake." "The first year of marriage is always the hardest." "Marriage is hard and takes a lot of work." It's hearing things like this that makes me think marriage should inherently be a struggle. And I genuinely think sometimes that how my wife treats me is no different than how any other wife treats her husband--I just am A). too stubborn to let my wife call all the shots in the relationship B). suck at making and enforcing boundaries so I invite this type of bad behavior towards me and/or C). Overly sensitive. That's why I would LOVE to be able to observe a "healthy" marriage dynamic to see what that really looks like. Only then, will I know how truly dysfunctional or relatively normal my relationship is and how I'm being treated.
In summary, I realize that no matter how hard I try to make my wife happy, she is an inherently negative person who is quick to be annoyed, quick to be critical, quick to be judgmental, and quick to blame. In addition, I would describe her as inherently selfish, immature and too stubborn to compromise. Surprisingly, despite all this, for some reason I still love her and don't want to give up on her. I can't explain it. I CHOSE to marry this woman. She didn't transform into this type of person overnight so I feel responsible for getting myself into this situation. I am convinced she genuinely loves me and her behavior towards me does not have malicious intent--it's just who she is as a person. She claims she is just looking out for me. There are days where she radiates positivity and enthusiasm and is extra affectionate towards me. But unfortunately, those days are occurring less & less frequently. She seems like she's just always in a bad mood for some reason. I have tried everything in my power to make her happy about the things that I can control but I know she's still unhappy where she's living, unhappy with her job, unhappy with her financial situation, and unhappy with her relationship with her dad. I could come home from work in the best mood and within 5 minutes of being around her I can be in a horrible mood. It's remarkable how contagious moods are. I wish more than anything that she could develop some self-awareness. I would do anything to help her but she is strongly opposed to couples therapy and genuinely doesn't think there is anything wrong with her actions. It's mind boggling sometimes.
I wonder if I worked on my ability to set & enforce boundaries could create a better dynamic between us? I wish there was a magic phrase that I could use to get the message across to her whenever she resorts to treating me like a small child or is overly critical of me or trying to micromanage me.
posted by NewlyWed614 at 11:52 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
1). has she always been like this? to a certain degree "yes"; however, it has steadily been getting worse since we've gotten married. She has always been the tell-you-how-it-is, no-filter-over-her-mouth type of person complete with a side of sarcasm; however, only recently has it really started to bother me. In hindsight, I this is because there were far many more "good days" to balance out the days where she felt like being nasty towards me. Also in the beginning, she used to care about my feelings so whenever I let her know that she crossed the line, she was apologetic and remorseful. Fast forward to now and she just acts like I'm crazy for wanting to defend myself and have anger management issues for getting upset by her remarks. In addition, as you can see, each of her "opinions" of me in a vacuum are relatively benign, but taken as a whole paint the picture that she's trying to mold me into somebody who I am not. Also, I am noticing the toll that it is taking on me. First, my decision making skills are struggling. I've have gotten to the point where I'm constantly second guessing myself with even seemingly straightforward decisions & have even noticed that I become very anxious when I need to make a decision that will affect the both of us and she is not around (b/c I know if I didn't consult her & I chose option A--she would've chose option B). I used to be very care-free & easy going with a very mild temperament. Now I feel irritable and stressed out and I feel like being angry towards her is a daily occurrence. Finally, I am noticing that I am starting to reciprocate how she treats me. I've tried my best to reason with her to stop the Mother-Child relationship dynamic but since that clearly isn't working, I have started to treat her how she treats me just out of spite. I'll sometimes jump on the opportunity to make her feel bad about something. This couldn't be more UNLIKE me but I'm desperate for her to understand how she makes me feel. In summary, I don't like the person I am turning into since getting married.
2). Were you aware of her family dynamic? Yes, but not through direct observation--just based on what she told me it was like growing up. Her mom sounded controlling and her dad was very hard on her -- a tough-love--type of parenting style that eventually evolved into emotional neglect. Her main complaint about him (and why she resents him so much) is that he never took ownership for his problematic behavior and instead blamed everyone else & always assumed the victim role--a behavioral pattern my wife has certainly embodied. I thought that because she detested these certain qualities in her parents that she would be sure to live a life making sure not to repeat the same mistakes--but I'm finding this not to be the case.
3). Nowhere in your post did you say you love your wife: This is true. It's getting harder and harder to CHOOSE to love my wife. It's hard to love someone who you are battling with on a constant basis. I feel like too often we are enemies rather than lovers. But one thing I know is true: I WANT to love my wife so badly. I worry that each attack on my character contaminates this relationship just a little bit more and eventually all the love in my heart will be replaced by anger & resentment. That's why I am trying to be proactive.
4). What was your parent's marriage like? mom definitely wore the pants in that relationship. dad was very passive but he didn't act like the dynamic bothered him. They are still happily married and were good role models.
5). How long did you date before getting married? Almost 2 years
6). Did you live with her before getting married? Yes, we lived together for about a year before getting married.
7). You know this is emotional abuse but yet you exhibit self doubt and look to us for validation of your feelings: This is where I get hungup the most. I have never been married before so I can only base my experience on what I've heard from others. "Happy Wife Happy Life." "The woman is always right." "The fastest way to get a woman to stop having sex with you is to feed her wedding cake." "The first year of marriage is always the hardest." "Marriage is hard and takes a lot of work." It's hearing things like this that makes me think marriage should inherently be a struggle. And I genuinely think sometimes that how my wife treats me is no different than how any other wife treats her husband--I just am A). too stubborn to let my wife call all the shots in the relationship B). suck at making and enforcing boundaries so I invite this type of bad behavior towards me and/or C). Overly sensitive. That's why I would LOVE to be able to observe a "healthy" marriage dynamic to see what that really looks like. Only then, will I know how truly dysfunctional or relatively normal my relationship is and how I'm being treated.
In summary, I realize that no matter how hard I try to make my wife happy, she is an inherently negative person who is quick to be annoyed, quick to be critical, quick to be judgmental, and quick to blame. In addition, I would describe her as inherently selfish, immature and too stubborn to compromise. Surprisingly, despite all this, for some reason I still love her and don't want to give up on her. I can't explain it. I CHOSE to marry this woman. She didn't transform into this type of person overnight so I feel responsible for getting myself into this situation. I am convinced she genuinely loves me and her behavior towards me does not have malicious intent--it's just who she is as a person. She claims she is just looking out for me. There are days where she radiates positivity and enthusiasm and is extra affectionate towards me. But unfortunately, those days are occurring less & less frequently. She seems like she's just always in a bad mood for some reason. I have tried everything in my power to make her happy about the things that I can control but I know she's still unhappy where she's living, unhappy with her job, unhappy with her financial situation, and unhappy with her relationship with her dad. I could come home from work in the best mood and within 5 minutes of being around her I can be in a horrible mood. It's remarkable how contagious moods are. I wish more than anything that she could develop some self-awareness. I would do anything to help her but she is strongly opposed to couples therapy and genuinely doesn't think there is anything wrong with her actions. It's mind boggling sometimes.
I wonder if I worked on my ability to set & enforce boundaries could create a better dynamic between us? I wish there was a magic phrase that I could use to get the message across to her whenever she resorts to treating me like a small child or is overly critical of me or trying to micromanage me.
posted by NewlyWed614 at 11:52 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
I’m so sorry but there is no magic phrase to help you here. And no amount of boundary-setting on your part will change behaviour she thinks is justified and she feels entitled to do. You don’t like her anymore even if you have residual love for her, and you don’t even like who *you* are when you’re around her. You’ve already tried all the reasonable things to fix this, but you can’t fix a partnership all by yourself.
Marriage is hard, but it’s not meant to be *this* hard. Imagine if this is as good as it gets between you - if your happiest days are behind you? Do you want to live another 40 or 60 years like this?
If you leave, you will definitely be happier. And there is a very slight chance that she might learn to be happy too, once she doesn’t have you to blame anymore for her shitty moods and has to figure out what’s actually causing them.
posted by harriet vane at 1:07 AM on May 9, 2018 [4 favorites]
Marriage is hard, but it’s not meant to be *this* hard. Imagine if this is as good as it gets between you - if your happiest days are behind you? Do you want to live another 40 or 60 years like this?
If you leave, you will definitely be happier. And there is a very slight chance that she might learn to be happy too, once she doesn’t have you to blame anymore for her shitty moods and has to figure out what’s actually causing them.
posted by harriet vane at 1:07 AM on May 9, 2018 [4 favorites]
I’m so sorry but there is no magic phrase to help you here. And no amount of boundary-setting on your part will change behaviour she thinks is justified and she feels entitled to do.
One of the hardest lessons I have learned in my life is that you cannot *make* someone act in a certain way, or *want* to be someone they are not. I think a lot of AskMefi questions can be solved if they just consider this question. How can I make my husband apply for jobs and be more self-motivated and not apply for jobs for him (you cannot); how can I make my mother be more financially responsible and plan her finances (you cannot); how can I make someone love me and want to date me wholeheartedly (you cannot); how can I make my friend listen to me and dump her abusive spouse (you cannot). The most you can do is provide resources like time, a listening ear, Internet reading, courses, etc, and sometimes, a well-timed comment or action. But you cannot force them to do what they do not want to do.
You cannot change your wife if she does not want to be changed. You can only walk away.
posted by moiraine at 2:54 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
One of the hardest lessons I have learned in my life is that you cannot *make* someone act in a certain way, or *want* to be someone they are not. I think a lot of AskMefi questions can be solved if they just consider this question. How can I make my husband apply for jobs and be more self-motivated and not apply for jobs for him (you cannot); how can I make my mother be more financially responsible and plan her finances (you cannot); how can I make someone love me and want to date me wholeheartedly (you cannot); how can I make my friend listen to me and dump her abusive spouse (you cannot). The most you can do is provide resources like time, a listening ear, Internet reading, courses, etc, and sometimes, a well-timed comment or action. But you cannot force them to do what they do not want to do.
You cannot change your wife if she does not want to be changed. You can only walk away.
posted by moiraine at 2:54 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
I genuinely think sometimes that how my wife treats me is no different than how any other wife treats her husband
You might well genuinely believe that, but it's a mistaken belief. I've been happily married for seventeen years now. If Ms flabdablet had ever treated me the way you describe your wife treating you, I would have walked away without a backward glance.
posted by flabdablet at 3:25 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
You might well genuinely believe that, but it's a mistaken belief. I've been happily married for seventeen years now. If Ms flabdablet had ever treated me the way you describe your wife treating you, I would have walked away without a backward glance.
posted by flabdablet at 3:25 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
And just to be clear: obviously we argue sometimes because we are both human beings. But both of us think of ourselves as being on Team Each Other, so as soon as we've calmed down after any disagreement that's escalated to the point of inflicting distress, one of us will apologise to the other for being awful, and the other will accept that apology and apologise in turn, and then we'll both do our level best to work through whatever issue had us arguing in the first place and either resolve it or agree to disagree. Because both of us are working from the same basic principle: that what we have with each other matters more than whatever other thing is going on.
That's what the hard work of a committed relationship is supposed to look like, not this I Can Just Kick You Whenever I Feel Miserable And Your Job Is Learning To Deal With It bullshit.
posted by flabdablet at 3:37 AM on May 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
That's what the hard work of a committed relationship is supposed to look like, not this I Can Just Kick You Whenever I Feel Miserable And Your Job Is Learning To Deal With It bullshit.
posted by flabdablet at 3:37 AM on May 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
I wish there was a magic phrase that I could use to get the message across to her whenever she resorts to treating me like a small child or is overly critical of me or trying to micromanage me.
"I am not your child, I am not your employee, I am not your punching bag, and I do not have to put up with being treated like this."
To be delivered in the same tone you would use to announce that it is raining outside. Not shouting, not angry, not petulant, just flatly communicating a fact. And then you take yourself off elsewhere for a few hours. And if she's still in attack mode when you get back, you do it again. And if she never stops the attacks, you stop coming back.
That's the best plan you have.
It probably won't get you what you want.
posted by flabdablet at 3:44 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
"I am not your child, I am not your employee, I am not your punching bag, and I do not have to put up with being treated like this."
To be delivered in the same tone you would use to announce that it is raining outside. Not shouting, not angry, not petulant, just flatly communicating a fact. And then you take yourself off elsewhere for a few hours. And if she's still in attack mode when you get back, you do it again. And if she never stops the attacks, you stop coming back.
That's the best plan you have.
It probably won't get you what you want.
posted by flabdablet at 3:44 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
I only want to resort to divorce as an absolute last ditch resort.
....Let me give you a question to think about - what does "the absolute ditch last resort" look like to you? Meaning - what are the circumstances that would cause you to recognize that you are there and that there is no hope?
I think that's what many people in this thread are trying to say to you - that you are at the point of last resort but you don't recognize it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:47 AM on May 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
....Let me give you a question to think about - what does "the absolute ditch last resort" look like to you? Meaning - what are the circumstances that would cause you to recognize that you are there and that there is no hope?
I think that's what many people in this thread are trying to say to you - that you are at the point of last resort but you don't recognize it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:47 AM on May 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
I have tried everything in my power to make her happy about the things that I can control but I know she's still unhappy where she's living, unhappy with her job, unhappy with her financial situation, and unhappy with her relationship with her dad.
So, this piece, for me, is actually really illuminative - what it says to me is that you two may actually have what is a super common problem for young couples getting married right now. I'm not saying you don't also have other problems, but it might be worth it to try to look at the one that is fixable and then see where you're at afterwards.
Because the nature of marriage - what it means to be married - is really in flux right now, a lot of people have very different ideas about What Marriage Means. We no longer have a cultural commonality of what we understand it to be. Is it just a way of formalizing what you've already been doing (living together), or is it a fundamental change in your entire way of doing things? And if one person is thinking the first one, and the other is thinking the second, you're going to be deeply, deeply unhappy and not even really understand why.
What you are describing here - the problems that are making your wife unhappy - sound to me, from how I understand marriage, like marriage problems. It is a problem for your marriage if your wife is unhappy where she is living. Why is she unhappy where she is living? Could you live elsewhere? What is stopping her from living elsewhere? These are problems that, in a functional, healthy marriage (from my cultural POV) must be gone over jointly - they're definitely things you can control, or at least talk about moving to control. Unhappy with her job - why is she unhappy? How can it be fixed?
You also note that she is "unhappy with her financial situation" - not "our" financial situation. Do you have separate finances? If so, did she think that you would have separate finances after the marriage?
posted by corb at 8:04 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
So, this piece, for me, is actually really illuminative - what it says to me is that you two may actually have what is a super common problem for young couples getting married right now. I'm not saying you don't also have other problems, but it might be worth it to try to look at the one that is fixable and then see where you're at afterwards.
Because the nature of marriage - what it means to be married - is really in flux right now, a lot of people have very different ideas about What Marriage Means. We no longer have a cultural commonality of what we understand it to be. Is it just a way of formalizing what you've already been doing (living together), or is it a fundamental change in your entire way of doing things? And if one person is thinking the first one, and the other is thinking the second, you're going to be deeply, deeply unhappy and not even really understand why.
What you are describing here - the problems that are making your wife unhappy - sound to me, from how I understand marriage, like marriage problems. It is a problem for your marriage if your wife is unhappy where she is living. Why is she unhappy where she is living? Could you live elsewhere? What is stopping her from living elsewhere? These are problems that, in a functional, healthy marriage (from my cultural POV) must be gone over jointly - they're definitely things you can control, or at least talk about moving to control. Unhappy with her job - why is she unhappy? How can it be fixed?
You also note that she is "unhappy with her financial situation" - not "our" financial situation. Do you have separate finances? If so, did she think that you would have separate finances after the marriage?
posted by corb at 8:04 AM on May 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
do you see yourself with her in five years? like can you see it in your minds eye?
posted by speakeasy at 9:41 AM on May 9, 2018
posted by speakeasy at 9:41 AM on May 9, 2018
And I genuinely think sometimes that how my wife treats me is no different than how any other wife treats her husband
You are 100% wrong here - my wife treats me almost exactly the opposite from what you're describing. I had a girlfriend, however, about 10 years ago, who behaved almost identically to the way you describe your wife. She ended up becoming physically absuive as well as emotionally abusive.
You mention that you're starting to treat her like she treats you. That happened to me with my abusive ex as well. But here's the thing - it won't stop with her. Let it go on long enough and you'll start treating everyone in your life like that. I lost friends because I lost myself in that relationship. It took the breakup and 10 years of therapy to get me out of that soul-darkness. Please don't let that happen to you- get out while you're still yourself.
posted by eustacescrubb at 11:17 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
You are 100% wrong here - my wife treats me almost exactly the opposite from what you're describing. I had a girlfriend, however, about 10 years ago, who behaved almost identically to the way you describe your wife. She ended up becoming physically absuive as well as emotionally abusive.
You mention that you're starting to treat her like she treats you. That happened to me with my abusive ex as well. But here's the thing - it won't stop with her. Let it go on long enough and you'll start treating everyone in your life like that. I lost friends because I lost myself in that relationship. It took the breakup and 10 years of therapy to get me out of that soul-darkness. Please don't let that happen to you- get out while you're still yourself.
posted by eustacescrubb at 11:17 AM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
Exactly this. She is looking for some boundaries and is less attracted to you because you don't stand up for yourself. Learn to defuse her testing mode and don't argue back. I'd kinda toss back her original things at her so she sees how dumb they are
posted by Ironmouth at 3:36 PM on May 9, 2018
There is nothing, nothing AT ALL, inherently wrong with a female-dominant marriage partnership. If that is what you both were raised with, it only is sensible that you might seek it out for your own marriage. However, your descriptions of your wife's dominance-seeking behavior are, as repeatedly noted upthread, representations of unacceptable behavior. Ask her to stop, and emphasize that her abusive behavior is both unneeded to establish dominance and threatens it, because you'll leave. I mean, if that is what you want.
My own thirty-year partnership has been repeatedly challenged by my wife's family-earned dynamic of conflict-seeking: unless I rise to her bait and fight, she feels neglected and unloved. I hate it, and it has made me a crueler, angrier person. Unless I am able to demonstrate that cruelty and anger to her, she feels unprotected. It is terrible. Do not follow my lead.
posted by mwhybark at 4:27 PM on May 9, 2018
My own thirty-year partnership has been repeatedly challenged by my wife's family-earned dynamic of conflict-seeking: unless I rise to her bait and fight, she feels neglected and unloved. I hate it, and it has made me a crueler, angrier person. Unless I am able to demonstrate that cruelty and anger to her, she feels unprotected. It is terrible. Do not follow my lead.
posted by mwhybark at 4:27 PM on May 9, 2018
Also in the beginning, she used to care about my feelings so whenever I let her know that she crossed the line, she was apologetic and remorseful. Fast forward to now and she just acts like I'm crazy for wanting to defend myself and have anger management issues for getting upset by her remarks.
Lots of good advice here, but I just wanted to say that "people are on their best behavior before marriage" is totally a thing, to the point that Dear Abby and Ann Landers have said it many times (as well as here on Metafilter, of course :) ).
posted by Melismata at 8:43 AM on May 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Lots of good advice here, but I just wanted to say that "people are on their best behavior before marriage" is totally a thing, to the point that Dear Abby and Ann Landers have said it many times (as well as here on Metafilter, of course :) ).
posted by Melismata at 8:43 AM on May 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
And here's an old Carolyn Hax column that deals with this issue.
posted by Melismata at 8:48 AM on May 10, 2018
posted by Melismata at 8:48 AM on May 10, 2018
Response by poster: Once again, thank you for all the insightful replies to my situation. As I read through your suggestions, it has triggered my memory of how I have tried to diffuse her verbal attacks/tirades and how she successfully defends them:
1). If she's being particularly nasty to me for no valid reason, I've tried canned or scripted answers before such as "you don't have my permission to treat me this way" or some derivative and all that results in is her essentially laughing at me like I'm some Dr. Phil wannabe. It's clear she doesn't take me seriously.
2). I've called her out on her problematic behavior and used such adjectives as controlling/manipulative/mean etc...and all that does is fire her up even more and she will typically fire back with "well if you think I'm so "X" and such a bad person, why are you even with me?". That comeback usually stops me dead in my tracks b/c it usually makes me speechless.
Lately, whenever she doesn't get her way and we start arguing about it, her new go to is "I didn't sign up for this..." which I perceive as an insidious threat to leave the relationship. Although I try my best, she has the uncanny ability to bait me into an argument which I know are toxic to our relationship.
I wanted to get everyone's opinions on finances. Corb brought up an excellent point and it's one that could potentially be fueling the resentment my wife has towards me. We do have separate bank accounts. Although I make considerably more money than my wife, I pay for a VAST majority of the expenses (mortgage, car insurance, health insurance, groceries, restaurants, extravagant vacations, etc..) while she is responsible for her car & cell phone bill and 50% utilities. I prefer this for several reasons: A). My wife is controlling in nature and by having separate bank accounts it gives me one area of my life that I have complete control over B). My wife is more of a spender and I'm more of a saver C). My wife is very vocal that our world doesn't abide by traditional gender roles any more and therefore I am to be expected to help out with cooking dinners and grocery shopping and other chores so why should I assume the traditional gender role of being the 100% breadwinner? D) I fear that if I pay for everything she'll no longer have any motivation to work and she'll just quit her job (which she hates) and want to lay around the house all day (we don't have kids yet). E). When my wife is being nasty to me, the last thing I feel like doing is giving her unrestricted access to my bank account.
It sucks because I want to be 100% in this marriage and have joint bank accounts and really make myself vulnerable but I'm so used to having to protect myself against her. I'm old fashioned so I want to be working hard and be able to share all the money with my wife while she is at home taking care of the children when that day comes.
But for now, I just want her working a job that she likes. I think that would be an gigantic step in the RIGHT direction. She complains constantly about her job but at the same time spends ZERO time looking for another job (too much time spent on IG, FB, SC, and watching TV shows). And whenever I make a suggestion about what other jobs she could do or try to network for her--she just shuts down and tells me she doesn't want any help. I feel like I'm enabling her state of inertia but TRUST me--some people are impossible to motivate. It is FRUSTRATING beyond belief. Because I am a fixer, so when I hear somebody complaining about something--my first instinct is to find a solution but I swear she's not interested or motivated to find a solution--she just wants to complain which puts us all in a negative mood.
The past few week has been relatively uneventful and she has acted very lovingly toward me which gives me hope. I feel guilty that I essentially am just bashing my wife on this thread. She's not a bad person. I genuinely believe she's a loving, loyal, and committed person at her core that was just immersed in a toxic family environment and has no idea how much her emotional immaturity and "my-way-or-the-highway" approach to joint-decision making are jeopardizing this relationship. It's sad :( I think the last thing in the world she wants is to lose me. But at the same time, I kind of just walk around holding my breath waiting for the next flare up...
posted by NewlyWed614 at 10:28 PM on May 11, 2018
1). If she's being particularly nasty to me for no valid reason, I've tried canned or scripted answers before such as "you don't have my permission to treat me this way" or some derivative and all that results in is her essentially laughing at me like I'm some Dr. Phil wannabe. It's clear she doesn't take me seriously.
2). I've called her out on her problematic behavior and used such adjectives as controlling/manipulative/mean etc...and all that does is fire her up even more and she will typically fire back with "well if you think I'm so "X" and such a bad person, why are you even with me?". That comeback usually stops me dead in my tracks b/c it usually makes me speechless.
Lately, whenever she doesn't get her way and we start arguing about it, her new go to is "I didn't sign up for this..." which I perceive as an insidious threat to leave the relationship. Although I try my best, she has the uncanny ability to bait me into an argument which I know are toxic to our relationship.
I wanted to get everyone's opinions on finances. Corb brought up an excellent point and it's one that could potentially be fueling the resentment my wife has towards me. We do have separate bank accounts. Although I make considerably more money than my wife, I pay for a VAST majority of the expenses (mortgage, car insurance, health insurance, groceries, restaurants, extravagant vacations, etc..) while she is responsible for her car & cell phone bill and 50% utilities. I prefer this for several reasons: A). My wife is controlling in nature and by having separate bank accounts it gives me one area of my life that I have complete control over B). My wife is more of a spender and I'm more of a saver C). My wife is very vocal that our world doesn't abide by traditional gender roles any more and therefore I am to be expected to help out with cooking dinners and grocery shopping and other chores so why should I assume the traditional gender role of being the 100% breadwinner? D) I fear that if I pay for everything she'll no longer have any motivation to work and she'll just quit her job (which she hates) and want to lay around the house all day (we don't have kids yet). E). When my wife is being nasty to me, the last thing I feel like doing is giving her unrestricted access to my bank account.
It sucks because I want to be 100% in this marriage and have joint bank accounts and really make myself vulnerable but I'm so used to having to protect myself against her. I'm old fashioned so I want to be working hard and be able to share all the money with my wife while she is at home taking care of the children when that day comes.
But for now, I just want her working a job that she likes. I think that would be an gigantic step in the RIGHT direction. She complains constantly about her job but at the same time spends ZERO time looking for another job (too much time spent on IG, FB, SC, and watching TV shows). And whenever I make a suggestion about what other jobs she could do or try to network for her--she just shuts down and tells me she doesn't want any help. I feel like I'm enabling her state of inertia but TRUST me--some people are impossible to motivate. It is FRUSTRATING beyond belief. Because I am a fixer, so when I hear somebody complaining about something--my first instinct is to find a solution but I swear she's not interested or motivated to find a solution--she just wants to complain which puts us all in a negative mood.
The past few week has been relatively uneventful and she has acted very lovingly toward me which gives me hope. I feel guilty that I essentially am just bashing my wife on this thread. She's not a bad person. I genuinely believe she's a loving, loyal, and committed person at her core that was just immersed in a toxic family environment and has no idea how much her emotional immaturity and "my-way-or-the-highway" approach to joint-decision making are jeopardizing this relationship. It's sad :( I think the last thing in the world she wants is to lose me. But at the same time, I kind of just walk around holding my breath waiting for the next flare up...
posted by NewlyWed614 at 10:28 PM on May 11, 2018
The first part of a thing:
I am a fixer, so when I hear somebody complaining about something--my first instinct is to find a solution but I swear she's not interested or motivated to find a solution--she just wants to complain
The second part of the thing:
which puts us all in a negative mood.
Whether the second part necessarily follows from the first part is entirely your call.
Being able to listen to somebody's complaint in such a way that they feel listened to, while remaining completely clear on problem ownership - that whatever they're complaining about is their problem to solve and that you are not required to help solve it unless explicitly asked for advice - is a very valuable skill for anybody, married or not.
Because the simple fact is that simply being heard is actually what most people want to get from a good kvetch, and if you get good at hearing rather than reflexively leaping to fixing, having people complain to you can lift both your moods. Theirs because they've been heard, and yours because you know your attentive listening has helped lift theirs.
posted by flabdablet at 10:44 PM on May 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
I am a fixer, so when I hear somebody complaining about something--my first instinct is to find a solution but I swear she's not interested or motivated to find a solution--she just wants to complain
The second part of the thing:
which puts us all in a negative mood.
Whether the second part necessarily follows from the first part is entirely your call.
Being able to listen to somebody's complaint in such a way that they feel listened to, while remaining completely clear on problem ownership - that whatever they're complaining about is their problem to solve and that you are not required to help solve it unless explicitly asked for advice - is a very valuable skill for anybody, married or not.
Because the simple fact is that simply being heard is actually what most people want to get from a good kvetch, and if you get good at hearing rather than reflexively leaping to fixing, having people complain to you can lift both your moods. Theirs because they've been heard, and yours because you know your attentive listening has helped lift theirs.
posted by flabdablet at 10:44 PM on May 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
NewlyWed14 - what I'm about to say may sound mean, and I apologize, but I think you need some tough love right now -
You've posted two very, very long responses to the comments in here. Your responses are much, much longer than typical for someone who's just answering questions. In fact, they sound more like you're desperately trying to convince someone that your wife isn't mistreating you and that your marriage can be salvaged.
The question is - who are you trying to convince? Us, or yourself?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:38 AM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
You've posted two very, very long responses to the comments in here. Your responses are much, much longer than typical for someone who's just answering questions. In fact, they sound more like you're desperately trying to convince someone that your wife isn't mistreating you and that your marriage can be salvaged.
The question is - who are you trying to convince? Us, or yourself?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:38 AM on May 12, 2018 [5 favorites]
After reading your updates, I continue to stand 100% behind my initial assessments. You are being abused, you need a divorce, and the longer you put that off the more damage this relationship will do to your life and your psyche. Absolutely nothing you have said so far has sown even the smallest seed of doubt in my mind that this is the case.
Your thinking about this is distorted, which is understandable—my own thinking was similarly distorted while I was still living inside the bubble of my own abusive relationship—but no less true for all that. You are not thinking about this clearly. Your wife is harming you. It will only get worse with time. Please leave.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:00 AM on May 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
Your thinking about this is distorted, which is understandable—my own thinking was similarly distorted while I was still living inside the bubble of my own abusive relationship—but no less true for all that. You are not thinking about this clearly. Your wife is harming you. It will only get worse with time. Please leave.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:00 AM on May 12, 2018 [4 favorites]
I commented above, (as did my daughter) and have to follow up to your follow-up.
The past few week has been relatively uneventful and she has acted very lovingly toward me which gives me hope.
Once again, this could be me. My ex-wife could be incredibly charming and loving and thoughtful. After all, I wouldn't have married her if she as a Horrible Human Being with no redeeming values. And every time I thought things were so bad I had no choice but to leave, things would improve. Briefly. Just long enough for me to convince myself this was the new normal. Everything is great now, what was I thinking? But just as quickly, it would turn the other way. I rode that roller coaster for 25 years. Always fooling myself that the peaks were the new normal, and the valleys were just like everyone else's tough times, even when my friends and concerned family members would explain to me how abnormal it all was.
I feel guilty that I essentially am just bashing my wife on this thread.
My guilt was even worse. I felt guilty complaining about her, even among my friends in our informal get-togethers whose purpose was to specifically help each other with our marriages. Even worse than that, when we went into marriage counseling the first time, early in our marriage (just like the final time, it was her idea so she could get me straightened out) I couldn't even share legitimate complaints with the marriage counselor!
She had no problem railing against every perceived wrong of mine, no matter how outlandish or exaggerated. (One example: I rarely ever drink, but one night we went out of town and she insisted I have a drink because she was having one. It was stronger than I expected and I didn't even finish it. We walked back to our hotel, and I was so sleepy I couldn't stay awake. At our next session, she said this incident made her fear I was an alcoholic and had a drinking problem because I "passed out drunk" on our attempted romantic getaway. I'm still shaking my head over that one.)
Those early counseling sessions were useless because I couldn't be honest with myself or the counselor. I was so protective of her that I couldn't bear the thought of anyone thinking ill of her, and therefore I refused to see reality myself. She wasn't a horrible human; she was a flawed human with mental health and behavioral issues that she refused to have treated for many years. When she finally did acknowledge the issues and seek treatment, she wouldn't stick with it, and in fact used her illness as an excuse for any behavior she wanted to indulge in. Gambling away the mortgage money? "You know I can't help it!" Taking our daughter's gifts from under the Christmas tree to return them for cash for more gambling? "I'm in a manic phase, you know that!" As blatant as those things are, I still had a hard time sharing them with the (second, final) counselor, and felt terribly guilty when I did.
Look, I don't know you or your situation other than what you have written here. Am I 100% sure your marriage is totally unsalvageable? No, I can't be. There may be a chance. It has happened. But I encourage you to print out your question, and write out other specific incidents, and make an appointment for counseling for yourself alone and get some feedback. Be brutally honest about the behavior, but even more importantly, be brutally honest about your feelings. At this point, you may not be fully acknowledging how much her actions are hurting you. And until you can feel the flames, you'll stay in the fire.
posted by The Deej at 6:25 AM on May 12, 2018 [7 favorites]
The past few week has been relatively uneventful and she has acted very lovingly toward me which gives me hope.
Once again, this could be me. My ex-wife could be incredibly charming and loving and thoughtful. After all, I wouldn't have married her if she as a Horrible Human Being with no redeeming values. And every time I thought things were so bad I had no choice but to leave, things would improve. Briefly. Just long enough for me to convince myself this was the new normal. Everything is great now, what was I thinking? But just as quickly, it would turn the other way. I rode that roller coaster for 25 years. Always fooling myself that the peaks were the new normal, and the valleys were just like everyone else's tough times, even when my friends and concerned family members would explain to me how abnormal it all was.
I feel guilty that I essentially am just bashing my wife on this thread.
My guilt was even worse. I felt guilty complaining about her, even among my friends in our informal get-togethers whose purpose was to specifically help each other with our marriages. Even worse than that, when we went into marriage counseling the first time, early in our marriage (just like the final time, it was her idea so she could get me straightened out) I couldn't even share legitimate complaints with the marriage counselor!
She had no problem railing against every perceived wrong of mine, no matter how outlandish or exaggerated. (One example: I rarely ever drink, but one night we went out of town and she insisted I have a drink because she was having one. It was stronger than I expected and I didn't even finish it. We walked back to our hotel, and I was so sleepy I couldn't stay awake. At our next session, she said this incident made her fear I was an alcoholic and had a drinking problem because I "passed out drunk" on our attempted romantic getaway. I'm still shaking my head over that one.)
Those early counseling sessions were useless because I couldn't be honest with myself or the counselor. I was so protective of her that I couldn't bear the thought of anyone thinking ill of her, and therefore I refused to see reality myself. She wasn't a horrible human; she was a flawed human with mental health and behavioral issues that she refused to have treated for many years. When she finally did acknowledge the issues and seek treatment, she wouldn't stick with it, and in fact used her illness as an excuse for any behavior she wanted to indulge in. Gambling away the mortgage money? "You know I can't help it!" Taking our daughter's gifts from under the Christmas tree to return them for cash for more gambling? "I'm in a manic phase, you know that!" As blatant as those things are, I still had a hard time sharing them with the (second, final) counselor, and felt terribly guilty when I did.
Look, I don't know you or your situation other than what you have written here. Am I 100% sure your marriage is totally unsalvageable? No, I can't be. There may be a chance. It has happened. But I encourage you to print out your question, and write out other specific incidents, and make an appointment for counseling for yourself alone and get some feedback. Be brutally honest about the behavior, but even more importantly, be brutally honest about your feelings. At this point, you may not be fully acknowledging how much her actions are hurting you. And until you can feel the flames, you'll stay in the fire.
posted by The Deej at 6:25 AM on May 12, 2018 [7 favorites]
You know, sometimes you just marry the wrong person. It doesn't mean you suck at life, or that the other person is vile, it just means you're incompatible.
Love isn't war. Marriage is meant to be a fortress that safeguards your wellbeing and happiness so that you can grow old together, that someones always got your back (even when you do fuck up) ..a place to bring up kids in a healthy solid environment (that is, if you want kids).
i don't really know if you've defined for yourself what a good marriage is. Maybe start by making a list of things you'd want/need in a relationship, and see how many boxes you tick? and not like, on a once in awhile basis either.
i was in a relationship for four years with a guy who was super critical about every goddamn thing and always down on me for something, and then would flip around like magic and be this charming, warm, beautiful exciting creature and i always thought that that was his true nature. that the bad days, weeks, months were just cuz he had a shitty childhood and he was decent underneath it all.
but lemme tell you, no matter what a persons intention or nature be like, that shit wears you down, and you lose yourself. and its taken me years to patch up my self esteem and true spontaneity. that feeling, like when you laugh easy at things.
rarely, are people *all* bad. but there's bad, and there's bad for you. you know? this particular ex is now happily married with a woman that doesn't take shit and they're good. so. its not like i doomed him to a lifetime of sorrow because i finally found my spine and left him. we were just incompatible as hell. life can be like that.
posted by speakeasy at 12:04 PM on May 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
Love isn't war. Marriage is meant to be a fortress that safeguards your wellbeing and happiness so that you can grow old together, that someones always got your back (even when you do fuck up) ..a place to bring up kids in a healthy solid environment (that is, if you want kids).
i don't really know if you've defined for yourself what a good marriage is. Maybe start by making a list of things you'd want/need in a relationship, and see how many boxes you tick? and not like, on a once in awhile basis either.
i was in a relationship for four years with a guy who was super critical about every goddamn thing and always down on me for something, and then would flip around like magic and be this charming, warm, beautiful exciting creature and i always thought that that was his true nature. that the bad days, weeks, months were just cuz he had a shitty childhood and he was decent underneath it all.
but lemme tell you, no matter what a persons intention or nature be like, that shit wears you down, and you lose yourself. and its taken me years to patch up my self esteem and true spontaneity. that feeling, like when you laugh easy at things.
rarely, are people *all* bad. but there's bad, and there's bad for you. you know? this particular ex is now happily married with a woman that doesn't take shit and they're good. so. its not like i doomed him to a lifetime of sorrow because i finally found my spine and left him. we were just incompatible as hell. life can be like that.
posted by speakeasy at 12:04 PM on May 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
My wife is very vocal that our world doesn't abide by traditional gender roles any more and therefore I am to be expected to help out with cooking dinners and grocery shopping and other chores so why should I assume the traditional gender role of being the 100% breadwinner?
Whether or not you stay in this marriage, I just want to call out this piece, because I think it's something it would be helpful to work on, and I also think it's a problem that affects more than just you. Gender roles are shifting, and it sounds like you guys are having conflict about those shifts and what they mean, in the small scale, for you. If you want to stay in the relationship, you need to have a serious conversation with your wife about what you feel gender roles are and should be and what she feels they are and should be and find a compromise somewhere in the middle. If you want to find a new relationship, you need to figure out what you want there and be open about it with new partners - and still be open to the possibility of compromise. One of the things with having things changing is we don't have a collectively agreed to understanding anymore.
posted by corb at 1:05 PM on May 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
Whether or not you stay in this marriage, I just want to call out this piece, because I think it's something it would be helpful to work on, and I also think it's a problem that affects more than just you. Gender roles are shifting, and it sounds like you guys are having conflict about those shifts and what they mean, in the small scale, for you. If you want to stay in the relationship, you need to have a serious conversation with your wife about what you feel gender roles are and should be and what she feels they are and should be and find a compromise somewhere in the middle. If you want to find a new relationship, you need to figure out what you want there and be open about it with new partners - and still be open to the possibility of compromise. One of the things with having things changing is we don't have a collectively agreed to understanding anymore.
posted by corb at 1:05 PM on May 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by tristeza at 9:47 PM on May 3, 2018 [161 favorites]