Am I Latinx enough to wear the t-shirt?
May 2, 2018 6:04 PM Subscribe
How can I understand what it would mean to identify as both Latinx and white? Recognizing that race/ethnicity are complex social constructs, I could use some advice.
Background: I recently returned from a trip to Uruguay, where I studied Spanish - as I have been wanting to do for a while. I also bought a t-shirt at a museum that says, in bold letters, "Latino-Americano".
I was raised by my mom in Texas (which has been, and many will tell you still is, its own country). I no longer live there. I grew up speaking only English. My mom's side is a mix of European-American with US roots going back to the colonial days. My dad's side is a mix that includes European American, Native American, North African, and Mexican. I have relatives currently living in Mexico that I have visited, but don't know that well.
I know my ancestry based on both genealogy and genetics, and it's mostly European. But I want to claim my Latinx heritage because of:
1. My actual DNA and family tree
2. My lifelong love and study of Latin food, dance, music, culture, etc.
3. Politics. I want to be in solidarity with friends* and people around the world who are being persecuted for being migrants/people of color.
Arguments against: I was not raised as Hispanic, I usually "read" as white, and I'm scared of being called out as the latest colonialist appropriator.
Summary: If you were me, would you wear the t-shirt? If asked, should I say I'm "part Tejano"? What about checking both white and "Latino/Hispanic" on survey forms?
~~
*I plan to talk to my real-life POC friends about all this, but I haven't yet.
Background: I recently returned from a trip to Uruguay, where I studied Spanish - as I have been wanting to do for a while. I also bought a t-shirt at a museum that says, in bold letters, "Latino-Americano".
I was raised by my mom in Texas (which has been, and many will tell you still is, its own country). I no longer live there. I grew up speaking only English. My mom's side is a mix of European-American with US roots going back to the colonial days. My dad's side is a mix that includes European American, Native American, North African, and Mexican. I have relatives currently living in Mexico that I have visited, but don't know that well.
I know my ancestry based on both genealogy and genetics, and it's mostly European. But I want to claim my Latinx heritage because of:
1. My actual DNA and family tree
2. My lifelong love and study of Latin food, dance, music, culture, etc.
3. Politics. I want to be in solidarity with friends* and people around the world who are being persecuted for being migrants/people of color.
Arguments against: I was not raised as Hispanic, I usually "read" as white, and I'm scared of being called out as the latest colonialist appropriator.
Summary: If you were me, would you wear the t-shirt? If asked, should I say I'm "part Tejano"? What about checking both white and "Latino/Hispanic" on survey forms?
~~
*I plan to talk to my real-life POC friends about all this, but I haven't yet.
What t-shirt?
Lots of Latinos are white. I don't think white and Latino are separate categories (as in, I don't think people are "half latino and half white" or such but that there are white latinos and black latinos and indigenous and asian latinos. People who come from Spanish-speaking countries can have ancestry on any continent, just like an "American" can be any race a "whatever spanish-speaking-country-your-from-ancestrally" person can be any race.
So anyway, if you feel like you are ancestrally from a Spanish-speaking country, you're latino. If you're white, you're white. There is no contradiction.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:14 PM on May 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
Lots of Latinos are white. I don't think white and Latino are separate categories (as in, I don't think people are "half latino and half white" or such but that there are white latinos and black latinos and indigenous and asian latinos. People who come from Spanish-speaking countries can have ancestry on any continent, just like an "American" can be any race a "whatever spanish-speaking-country-your-from-ancestrally" person can be any race.
So anyway, if you feel like you are ancestrally from a Spanish-speaking country, you're latino. If you're white, you're white. There is no contradiction.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:14 PM on May 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
Sorry, just saw the shirt description. I swear I looked twice.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:15 PM on May 2, 2018
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:15 PM on May 2, 2018
This is too much exposition about a shirt. Identify however you want.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 6:52 PM on May 2, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by masquesoporfavor at 6:52 PM on May 2, 2018 [7 favorites]
Maternal side is Puerto Rican (with European, Native American, and African ancestry), paternal side is Irish/German/English, and I read as chalk white.
I would not wear that shirt myself, but I absolutely check both boxes on forms.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:13 PM on May 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
I would not wear that shirt myself, but I absolutely check both boxes on forms.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:13 PM on May 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Arguments against: I was not raised as Hispanic, I usually "read" as white, and I'm scared of being called out as the latest colonialist appropriator.
I was raised understanding I was Hispanic from one parent and the other parent, the non-Mexican one, angrily insisting my brother and I were not. Because she is 100% a racist and has only gotten worse about it since they divorced. I try not to, like, elevate myself over people who are talking who have faced more overt racism in their lives because I pass and they don't, because they're better at talking about that stuff? But I've like... never in my life had anybody treat me like I'm appropriating anything. And I think it's an important conversation to have, for example, how many of us grew up not speaking Spanish because it was seen as not a strength but a liability.
What I call myself depends a lot on the context, but none of them are less correct. I am Hispanic and Mexican, even if those things just come from my dad's side. In conversations about Hispanic/Latinx/Mexican culture, for those purposes I am white and I have had advantages from that even though my Mexican family was poor because they were less dark-skinned than others. That's a thing. I mean, my mom wouldn't have married my dad otherwise, so I wouldn't even exist.
But in the context of US culture, whiteness is a thing that doesn't belong to me. I can pass for white, and people who talk shit about Mexicans can certainly say they aren't talking about me, but even if they think they aren't talking about me, they're talking about my family, and that means they're talking about me. I think wearing the shirt is a good thing, because the racists and other bigots need to know they aren't "safe" saying whatever they want just because the people around them pass for cis, het, white, etc. Passing for is not being.
posted by Sequence at 7:50 PM on May 2, 2018 [21 favorites]
I was raised understanding I was Hispanic from one parent and the other parent, the non-Mexican one, angrily insisting my brother and I were not. Because she is 100% a racist and has only gotten worse about it since they divorced. I try not to, like, elevate myself over people who are talking who have faced more overt racism in their lives because I pass and they don't, because they're better at talking about that stuff? But I've like... never in my life had anybody treat me like I'm appropriating anything. And I think it's an important conversation to have, for example, how many of us grew up not speaking Spanish because it was seen as not a strength but a liability.
What I call myself depends a lot on the context, but none of them are less correct. I am Hispanic and Mexican, even if those things just come from my dad's side. In conversations about Hispanic/Latinx/Mexican culture, for those purposes I am white and I have had advantages from that even though my Mexican family was poor because they were less dark-skinned than others. That's a thing. I mean, my mom wouldn't have married my dad otherwise, so I wouldn't even exist.
But in the context of US culture, whiteness is a thing that doesn't belong to me. I can pass for white, and people who talk shit about Mexicans can certainly say they aren't talking about me, but even if they think they aren't talking about me, they're talking about my family, and that means they're talking about me. I think wearing the shirt is a good thing, because the racists and other bigots need to know they aren't "safe" saying whatever they want just because the people around them pass for cis, het, white, etc. Passing for is not being.
posted by Sequence at 7:50 PM on May 2, 2018 [21 favorites]
latinx is not a skin color. uruguyans of 100% white european ancestry are just as latinx as afro-cubans and indigenous mexicans and japanese peruvians.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:10 PM on May 2, 2018 [18 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:10 PM on May 2, 2018 [18 favorites]
If someone complains about you wearing the shirt, just say that the store wasn't selling half a shirt :)
posted by coberh at 9:03 PM on May 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by coberh at 9:03 PM on May 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
Ah, Uruguay. Where the people speak Spanish with an Italian accent, and all claim to be French. Mi Uruguaya ex-novia used to joke that they took the "latin" part of "latina" very seriously.
I think you're fine to wear the shirt.
posted by weed donkey at 11:14 PM on May 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think you're fine to wear the shirt.
posted by weed donkey at 11:14 PM on May 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
*If I was you* I would feel weird wearing the shirt. Simply because you describe yourself as "mostly european" from which I get the impression that these Mexican relatives are quite distant? I have a varied ancestry (various flavours of European, I am not American) but I don't feel I'm particularly any of those things, as I have no immediate relatives and have no real connection to the experiences of people in those countries.
That said, you seem to feel strongly that this part of you is important and you want that connection - I would never tell you not to wear the shirt if it feels right to you.
posted by stillnocturnal at 3:03 AM on May 3, 2018
That said, you seem to feel strongly that this part of you is important and you want that connection - I would never tell you not to wear the shirt if it feels right to you.
posted by stillnocturnal at 3:03 AM on May 3, 2018
On second thoughts, you know, as someone who isn't American or Latinx - my opinion probably isn't relevant anyway.
posted by stillnocturnal at 3:10 AM on May 3, 2018
posted by stillnocturnal at 3:10 AM on May 3, 2018
Maternal side is Puerto Rican (with European, Native American, and African ancestry), paternal side is Irish/German/English, and I read as chalk white.
I would not wear that shirt myself, but I absolutely check both boxes on forms.
This is me (like, down to the letter, although it's my father who is Puerto Rican, so I have his surname). I'm not chalk white by a long stretch, but I generally read as Italian here in NY until people hear my name.
Wouldn't wear the shirt, especially in my neighborhood, which has a lot of recent central American immigrants. I would just feel weird about it, as a label I don't fully own. Plus my Spanish is terrible.
But I always check both boxes.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:08 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
I would not wear that shirt myself, but I absolutely check both boxes on forms.
This is me (like, down to the letter, although it's my father who is Puerto Rican, so I have his surname). I'm not chalk white by a long stretch, but I generally read as Italian here in NY until people hear my name.
Wouldn't wear the shirt, especially in my neighborhood, which has a lot of recent central American immigrants. I would just feel weird about it, as a label I don't fully own. Plus my Spanish is terrible.
But I always check both boxes.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:08 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
You will definitely run into people (of all kinds of ethnic/racial identities) who put a lot of effort into policing their personal definitions of identity boundaries. I think that is bogus and they are assholes, but there are a lot of people like that and you will need to find a way that works for you to navigate the people who will be saying either "you are not one of us" or "you are not one of them."
posted by Dip Flash at 6:15 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 6:15 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: As for the white/Hispanic thing, the US census bureau (among other) specifically has independent concepts for race and ethnicity to allow for this (common, but commonly erased*) combo.
You may enjoy reading the Wikipedia article about White Hispanic and Latino Americans, or suggesting it to other people who may be unaware.
Wear the shirt proudly!
*Fun and perhaps eye-opening article: Desi Arnaz was white
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:07 AM on May 3, 2018
You may enjoy reading the Wikipedia article about White Hispanic and Latino Americans, or suggesting it to other people who may be unaware.
Wear the shirt proudly!
*Fun and perhaps eye-opening article: Desi Arnaz was white
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:07 AM on May 3, 2018
You might find the Code Switch podcast to be a helpful resource as you work through this question. I'd especially recommend the episode about "Racial Impostor Syndrome" (article, audio), as well as the 2020 census episode (transcript, audio), which includes an extended discussion of how Latinx became an identity in the US.
posted by ourobouros at 9:03 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by ourobouros at 9:03 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think you have the perfect right to wear the shirt, but if/when you do, you should be prepared for people to ask you about your heritage and connection to Latin America (perhaps pretty intrusively), and to generally receive somewhat different treatment from people when they think you're Latin@ rather than white. That's not necessarily a reason not to wear it, just something to be prepared for when you do wear it.
posted by rue72 at 9:05 AM on May 3, 2018
posted by rue72 at 9:05 AM on May 3, 2018
Hi there! My mother is Hispanic and was raised learning English as her second language and my dad is the whitest of white dudes. I pass as white, but am very proud of my Hispanic/Mexican background (def more so than my dad's because no one in the family knows what the hell they are except "generic white"). There are so many different flavours of Latinx people in the world; I say you wear the t-shirt.
Also, pro-tip for people who meet people who are Latinx but pass as white: saying "but you don't look {insert nationality here}!" is not a compliment. It's you thinking that all Latinx people look alike.
posted by Kitteh at 9:42 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Also, pro-tip for people who meet people who are Latinx but pass as white: saying "but you don't look {insert nationality here}!" is not a compliment. It's you thinking that all Latinx people look alike.
posted by Kitteh at 9:42 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
1 is sufficient-- and IMO the only-- reason to claim a certain heritage.
2 and 3 without 1 is Rachel Dolezal territory.
posted by kapers at 9:55 AM on May 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
2 and 3 without 1 is Rachel Dolezal territory.
posted by kapers at 9:55 AM on May 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
My mother was of Mexican descent, born in San Antonio, TX, and we can trace her lineage all the way to the Baja California peninsula in Mexico.
However, she died when I was very young, and my dad's an Anglo-Saxon white guy, and my stepmother is an Eastern European white lady. I was raised white, although in a multicultural community, and my dad was very adamant that I check the Hispanic box on forms when I could.
Now, I live in a much whiter part of the country, and I feel even more Latina than I did when I lived next to other Hispanic neighbors. Part of it is a matter of missing it, and another part of it is being more free to do it in my own way, without feeling like I'm just faking it. I don't speak Spanish, and that's my biggest regret.
That said, I think you should wear the shirt. You speak Spanish, you identify as Latinx, and you clearly have some ancestry. It's important to you -- so own it.
posted by PearlRose at 10:44 AM on May 3, 2018
However, she died when I was very young, and my dad's an Anglo-Saxon white guy, and my stepmother is an Eastern European white lady. I was raised white, although in a multicultural community, and my dad was very adamant that I check the Hispanic box on forms when I could.
Now, I live in a much whiter part of the country, and I feel even more Latina than I did when I lived next to other Hispanic neighbors. Part of it is a matter of missing it, and another part of it is being more free to do it in my own way, without feeling like I'm just faking it. I don't speak Spanish, and that's my biggest regret.
That said, I think you should wear the shirt. You speak Spanish, you identify as Latinx, and you clearly have some ancestry. It's important to you -- so own it.
posted by PearlRose at 10:44 AM on May 3, 2018
As for the white/Hispanic thing, the US census bureau (among other) specifically has independent concepts for race and ethnicity to allow for this (common, but commonly erased*) combo.
Latino/hispanic are panethnicities, not ethnicities.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:38 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've been thinking about your question without realizing it! So I came back to weigh in.
I am a totally white/European person. I grew up in San Antonio, TX and my family (100% white as well) has been there for many generations. Being from SA, I think my bar for "part Mexican" or "part Latino" is kind of high. There are oodles of people in SA with one Mexican-American parent and 2 Mexican grandparents, as in Mexican nationals, primary language Spanish. So--I am only giving my opinion, which is reflective of nothing--I would find it a little iffy if someone identified as part Latino with anything less than one Latino grandparent. Not iffy in a bad way, just a little precious, full of oneself, that's all.
I try to stand in solidarity with Latin Americans at all times. The way I think about it, any Latino person that may wander into my view has a friend in 8603, even though there may be (fortunately) no occasion where I need to speak up about something that's gone wrong. After leaving San Antonio and going to college, I settled in the large Dominican community of Washington Heights, NYC, where I lived for 14 years and worked at an almost totally Dominican social service agency. Being a white person alongside a big Latino community has made me what I am. So I understand that you identify strongly with this part of your heritage. I would be pumped to discover that I had some Latino ancestry!
posted by 8603 at 4:55 PM on May 3, 2018
I am a totally white/European person. I grew up in San Antonio, TX and my family (100% white as well) has been there for many generations. Being from SA, I think my bar for "part Mexican" or "part Latino" is kind of high. There are oodles of people in SA with one Mexican-American parent and 2 Mexican grandparents, as in Mexican nationals, primary language Spanish. So--I am only giving my opinion, which is reflective of nothing--I would find it a little iffy if someone identified as part Latino with anything less than one Latino grandparent. Not iffy in a bad way, just a little precious, full of oneself, that's all.
I try to stand in solidarity with Latin Americans at all times. The way I think about it, any Latino person that may wander into my view has a friend in 8603, even though there may be (fortunately) no occasion where I need to speak up about something that's gone wrong. After leaving San Antonio and going to college, I settled in the large Dominican community of Washington Heights, NYC, where I lived for 14 years and worked at an almost totally Dominican social service agency. Being a white person alongside a big Latino community has made me what I am. So I understand that you identify strongly with this part of your heritage. I would be pumped to discover that I had some Latino ancestry!
posted by 8603 at 4:55 PM on May 3, 2018
I am a Latinx and Tejano. Here are some thoughts:
Numbers 2 and 3 are not acceptable (or sufficient) to claim Latinx identity. Doing so based on those reasons is appropriative and minimizing. Do not use those as factors in your decision.
Use only the first reason as a factor in your decision.
Other things that are factors relating to aspects of your question: whether or not you are actually Tejano. Do not use that as a consolation prize identity.
Being raised in Texas is not necessarily a factor in Latinx or Tejano identity and is not relevant to your question as stated.
For what it's worth to you, I am from Texas, my family has lived in the areas currently designated as northern Mexico and South Texas for a very long time, and I appreciate your desire to express solidarity.
I can make a pretty good case that wearing a shirt claiming cultural authority one does not have is talking over people, especially the people who don't have that shirt.
Being Latinx does not require a particular skin color. This is not properly about your skin color. Your feelings about your childhood and/or skin color may be part of your thought process here. If this applies to you it should be handled separately.
posted by Verba Volant at 8:09 PM on May 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
Numbers 2 and 3 are not acceptable (or sufficient) to claim Latinx identity. Doing so based on those reasons is appropriative and minimizing. Do not use those as factors in your decision.
Use only the first reason as a factor in your decision.
Other things that are factors relating to aspects of your question: whether or not you are actually Tejano. Do not use that as a consolation prize identity.
Being raised in Texas is not necessarily a factor in Latinx or Tejano identity and is not relevant to your question as stated.
For what it's worth to you, I am from Texas, my family has lived in the areas currently designated as northern Mexico and South Texas for a very long time, and I appreciate your desire to express solidarity.
I can make a pretty good case that wearing a shirt claiming cultural authority one does not have is talking over people, especially the people who don't have that shirt.
Being Latinx does not require a particular skin color. This is not properly about your skin color. Your feelings about your childhood and/or skin color may be part of your thought process here. If this applies to you it should be handled separately.
posted by Verba Volant at 8:09 PM on May 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
It concerns me that you are asking Metafilter about this before your "real-life POC friends."
It also concerns me that you are asking Metafilter for a specific answer and are only planning to talk to your POC friends "all about" it. You should think about what you are asking each group, the general demographics of these groups, and who you are and aren't specifically requesting opinions from.
If the issue there is that you are not being precise and accurate with your language, that also concerns me. This is the type of thing that you should make as much of an effort as possible to be precise and accurate about. I hope you are doing that.
To be clear: These things concern me greatly. In multiple ways.
posted by Verba Volant at 8:17 PM on May 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
It also concerns me that you are asking Metafilter for a specific answer and are only planning to talk to your POC friends "all about" it. You should think about what you are asking each group, the general demographics of these groups, and who you are and aren't specifically requesting opinions from.
If the issue there is that you are not being precise and accurate with your language, that also concerns me. This is the type of thing that you should make as much of an effort as possible to be precise and accurate about. I hope you are doing that.
To be clear: These things concern me greatly. In multiple ways.
posted by Verba Volant at 8:17 PM on May 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
You're a bit vague here, but when you say "a mix" and "mostly European," I can imagine a situation where it's a very very tiny percentage and you wish it were greater due to factors 2 and 3. If that's the case, I feel that would be appropriation. Liking the food, music, and identifying with certain politics doesn't increase the percentage, you know? In fact, cherry-picking like that makes it even more disrespectful if you don't have the lived experience because it's merely an aesthetic identification.
Also worth asking yourself if you would wear a tee saying you're North African in the company of North Africans? Would you wear a tee claiming Native American affiliation on tribal land? Would you express German-American pride, for example, presuming you're a higher percentage of German and German culture doesn't appeal to you as much as Mexican?
I did an ancestry thing and got some unexpected results in small percentages. While it increased my interest in those areas, I would never wear a shirt claiming these identities. I would feel disrespectful and fraudulent.
posted by kapers at 8:36 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also worth asking yourself if you would wear a tee saying you're North African in the company of North Africans? Would you wear a tee claiming Native American affiliation on tribal land? Would you express German-American pride, for example, presuming you're a higher percentage of German and German culture doesn't appeal to you as much as Mexican?
I did an ancestry thing and got some unexpected results in small percentages. While it increased my interest in those areas, I would never wear a shirt claiming these identities. I would feel disrespectful and fraudulent.
posted by kapers at 8:36 AM on May 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
My sister passes as White and I do not, primarily because I got olive skin that tans well and she's paler than Emma Watson. The fact that everyone else identified me as "not like Us, the Majority"(so, not German/Dutch/Swedish enough) when I was younger& trapped in the upper Midwest is not the reason I identify as Latina. Actually, all of my siblings consider ourselves that.
Speaking for myself, i see myself as Venezuelana, Latina, because I was raised Venezuelan and I still follow their specific traditions which are important to me along with closely following the (super depressing) news about my country. I have strong opinions about the nixtamalization of corn along with multiple handed down recipes for different types, I taught myself to speak Spanish in order to connect with Latin pop culture and have real conversations with my relatives, and I continue to seek out Latin American friends, companions, and coworkers because I feel like they are my 'people'.
These are my reasons and they don't have to be yours, yet... If I asked you about your shirt, it would be because I thought we had a lot more in common than your current answer. I'd likely take away that you picked it up as a tourist.
posted by saveyoursanity at 6:30 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
Speaking for myself, i see myself as Venezuelana, Latina, because I was raised Venezuelan and I still follow their specific traditions which are important to me along with closely following the (super depressing) news about my country. I have strong opinions about the nixtamalization of corn along with multiple handed down recipes for different types, I taught myself to speak Spanish in order to connect with Latin pop culture and have real conversations with my relatives, and I continue to seek out Latin American friends, companions, and coworkers because I feel like they are my 'people'.
These are my reasons and they don't have to be yours, yet... If I asked you about your shirt, it would be because I thought we had a lot more in common than your current answer. I'd likely take away that you picked it up as a tourist.
posted by saveyoursanity at 6:30 PM on May 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
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posted by tilde at 6:12 PM on May 2, 2018 [2 favorites]