Is this an emotional affair?
April 27, 2018 8:52 AM Subscribe
My wife has had some shady behavior, but technically claims to not have crossed a line into "affair" territory, and doesn't see why I have a problem with what's going on. Bear with me, I will try to be complete, since this is anonymous, and follow-up is difficult.
My wife and I have been together for 10+ years now, three young kids. We are queer, as are all parties mentioned here. About 6 months ago, my wife fell HARD for the mom of one of our kid's friends at school, let's call her Amy. They met at a school function, and my wife quickly started using every excuse to see Amy. She got involved in a local activity, which she became fairly obsessed with, and which just so happened allowed my wife to see Amy, alone, almost every day. And on the days they weren't doing their shared activity, they would often meet up for a playdate with the kids. They are both housewives, so are free during the day to meet up alone without their respective partners around.
I ignored it at first. It seemed harmless, but my wife's obsessive talking about Amy, and her constant drive to see her started becoming frustrating & hurtful. I confronted her about it, and she admitted that yes, she had a crush on her, but that nothing would ever happen. She claims that they are just friends, and they have just developed a very good friendship, and that she very much values that friendship.
She has on and off claimed to see nothing wrong with her behavior, and is very defensive. It took about a month of arguing for her to understand that pursuing alone time with a crush would be hurtful to me. For the most part, she has completely lacked any sort of empathy. A couple of times, she's come to me days later to apologize, but she mostly seems indignant. She currently claims to have no feelings for her, and that they are just very good friends. Now, I don't actually believe that in any way. My wife has never had a friend like this in the time I've known her - one she texts every day, and who she sees almost daily.
Is she having a physical affair? I honestly don't know. Amy is seemingly happily married, and I also know her, and she doesn't act odd around me. Is she having an emotional affair? I think so. I think having a crush on someone and pursuing them in this manner, texting, and seeing them every day is an emotional affair, even if my wife hasn't confessed her feelings to Amy. If my wife didn't have feelings for her, and was just hanging out as friends though? I think this behavior would be fine. But it's her feelings that make her behavior cross the line.
And some needed background... maybe I deserve this? I was in a similar situation a few years ago, where I fell for someone and pursued them too much. But there, it was just too much texting and flirting, and I never saw her alone, much less nearly everyday. I pulled back from that, and that's no longer an issue, but inevitably, when we start arguing about Amy, my wife brings up my past poor behavior. Our ten years also hasn't been the happiest, and a lot of that is my fault, and my issues with intimacy. I wouldn't be surprised if my wife was just really enjoying having some attention, since I am so bad at that.
We had a "come to Jesus" talk two nights ago about all of this where I told her that I needed for her to cool it. But today, I found out that my wife had invited Amy to the park again for yet another playdate after school. So she lasted less than 48 hours without seeing her. My "come to Jesus" talk laid out that (1) either she gets this under control or (2) we have an open marriage, since she seems to already be doing that. I do not want a divorce, and at this point, honestly, it's mainly because of the kids. I don't know if I'd still be hanging around after how she's been treating me. But I've seen friends get divorces and share custody and that seems like a nightmare to me.
Help? I don't know what to do. And she doesn't even seem to think this is a real problem.
My wife and I have been together for 10+ years now, three young kids. We are queer, as are all parties mentioned here. About 6 months ago, my wife fell HARD for the mom of one of our kid's friends at school, let's call her Amy. They met at a school function, and my wife quickly started using every excuse to see Amy. She got involved in a local activity, which she became fairly obsessed with, and which just so happened allowed my wife to see Amy, alone, almost every day. And on the days they weren't doing their shared activity, they would often meet up for a playdate with the kids. They are both housewives, so are free during the day to meet up alone without their respective partners around.
I ignored it at first. It seemed harmless, but my wife's obsessive talking about Amy, and her constant drive to see her started becoming frustrating & hurtful. I confronted her about it, and she admitted that yes, she had a crush on her, but that nothing would ever happen. She claims that they are just friends, and they have just developed a very good friendship, and that she very much values that friendship.
She has on and off claimed to see nothing wrong with her behavior, and is very defensive. It took about a month of arguing for her to understand that pursuing alone time with a crush would be hurtful to me. For the most part, she has completely lacked any sort of empathy. A couple of times, she's come to me days later to apologize, but she mostly seems indignant. She currently claims to have no feelings for her, and that they are just very good friends. Now, I don't actually believe that in any way. My wife has never had a friend like this in the time I've known her - one she texts every day, and who she sees almost daily.
Is she having a physical affair? I honestly don't know. Amy is seemingly happily married, and I also know her, and she doesn't act odd around me. Is she having an emotional affair? I think so. I think having a crush on someone and pursuing them in this manner, texting, and seeing them every day is an emotional affair, even if my wife hasn't confessed her feelings to Amy. If my wife didn't have feelings for her, and was just hanging out as friends though? I think this behavior would be fine. But it's her feelings that make her behavior cross the line.
And some needed background... maybe I deserve this? I was in a similar situation a few years ago, where I fell for someone and pursued them too much. But there, it was just too much texting and flirting, and I never saw her alone, much less nearly everyday. I pulled back from that, and that's no longer an issue, but inevitably, when we start arguing about Amy, my wife brings up my past poor behavior. Our ten years also hasn't been the happiest, and a lot of that is my fault, and my issues with intimacy. I wouldn't be surprised if my wife was just really enjoying having some attention, since I am so bad at that.
We had a "come to Jesus" talk two nights ago about all of this where I told her that I needed for her to cool it. But today, I found out that my wife had invited Amy to the park again for yet another playdate after school. So she lasted less than 48 hours without seeing her. My "come to Jesus" talk laid out that (1) either she gets this under control or (2) we have an open marriage, since she seems to already be doing that. I do not want a divorce, and at this point, honestly, it's mainly because of the kids. I don't know if I'd still be hanging around after how she's been treating me. But I've seen friends get divorces and share custody and that seems like a nightmare to me.
Help? I don't know what to do. And she doesn't even seem to think this is a real problem.
I mean... it isn't the same thing at all, the way you described it. You flirted with someone and then stopped doing that. She is doing the opposite: NOT stopping.
But... both things could be true. She could be absolutely crushed out on this woman AND be lonely and starved for friendship. Is she?
Is Amy even queer? If not, this will peter out by necessity.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:10 AM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
But... both things could be true. She could be absolutely crushed out on this woman AND be lonely and starved for friendship. Is she?
Is Amy even queer? If not, this will peter out by necessity.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:10 AM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
Help? I don't know what to do. And she doesn't even seem to think this is a real problem.
It's cliched around here, but are you two up for couples therapy? It's clear there are unresolved issues with your own past emotional affair, she's currently having one and the marriage has not been happy for a very long time. My guess is - even if there's no reciprocated physical or emotional affair happening from Amy, she's getting something from her that she's not getting from you and the only way to solve that is to know what it is and how to provide it.
posted by notorious medium at 9:10 AM on April 27, 2018 [12 favorites]
It's cliched around here, but are you two up for couples therapy? It's clear there are unresolved issues with your own past emotional affair, she's currently having one and the marriage has not been happy for a very long time. My guess is - even if there's no reciprocated physical or emotional affair happening from Amy, she's getting something from her that she's not getting from you and the only way to solve that is to know what it is and how to provide it.
posted by notorious medium at 9:10 AM on April 27, 2018 [12 favorites]
maybe I deserve this?
I don't believe that any healthy relationship is one where bad behavior is made right via payback. Contrition, forgiveness and doing better are the cure to bad behavior not retribution.
As for the the larger issue, typically the answer to issues like this is more communication. But you seem to be at the point of not hearing/believing each other, IE is this a marriage ending crisis or nothing? She doesn't believe your need for this friendship to cool off, you don't believe it IS just a friendship. So at this point I'd recommend a marriage counselor, I would propose this as a way to get help hearing each other. I think if it were me I'd want t a 3rd party to help vet/calibrate my feelings/suspicions and also help communicate the way in which I feel hurt. Weather or not I'm "right" to feel that way.
This does not seem beyond repair or a catastrophe but you need to get back to a place were you basically believe each other. Good luck!
posted by French Fry at 9:11 AM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
I don't believe that any healthy relationship is one where bad behavior is made right via payback. Contrition, forgiveness and doing better are the cure to bad behavior not retribution.
As for the the larger issue, typically the answer to issues like this is more communication. But you seem to be at the point of not hearing/believing each other, IE is this a marriage ending crisis or nothing? She doesn't believe your need for this friendship to cool off, you don't believe it IS just a friendship. So at this point I'd recommend a marriage counselor, I would propose this as a way to get help hearing each other. I think if it were me I'd want t a 3rd party to help vet/calibrate my feelings/suspicions and also help communicate the way in which I feel hurt. Weather or not I'm "right" to feel that way.
This does not seem beyond repair or a catastrophe but you need to get back to a place were you basically believe each other. Good luck!
posted by French Fry at 9:11 AM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
Is Amy even queer?
I believe so. OP says "We are queer, as are all parties mentioned here."
posted by Knowyournuts at 9:25 AM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
I believe so. OP says "We are queer, as are all parties mentioned here."
posted by Knowyournuts at 9:25 AM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
You don't "deserve" this but I do think you're letting yourself a bit off the hook here:
I wouldn't be surprised if my wife was just really enjoying having some attention, since I am so bad at that.
Like...you know you're "so bad" at that; so what are you doing to get better at that? Are you taking concrete actions, like therapy, or scheduled dates, or a practice that helps you pay better attention?
I'm not wanting to let your spouse off the hook here either, her deal with Amy sounds inappropriate in even the very best possible interpretation (which is: she has a crush, but she has not acted upon it, and is simply enjoying a good new friendship with a little extra excitement due to crush feelings. Still inappropriate because it's making you unhappy, you have reasonably asked her to dial it back, and she has ignored you).
I'm just saying, if you know she's likely doing this to meet a need you know you are not currently meeting, well, what is stopping you from meeting that need?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:31 AM on April 27, 2018 [42 favorites]
I wouldn't be surprised if my wife was just really enjoying having some attention, since I am so bad at that.
Like...you know you're "so bad" at that; so what are you doing to get better at that? Are you taking concrete actions, like therapy, or scheduled dates, or a practice that helps you pay better attention?
I'm not wanting to let your spouse off the hook here either, her deal with Amy sounds inappropriate in even the very best possible interpretation (which is: she has a crush, but she has not acted upon it, and is simply enjoying a good new friendship with a little extra excitement due to crush feelings. Still inappropriate because it's making you unhappy, you have reasonably asked her to dial it back, and she has ignored you).
I'm just saying, if you know she's likely doing this to meet a need you know you are not currently meeting, well, what is stopping you from meeting that need?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:31 AM on April 27, 2018 [42 favorites]
I commend your honesty.
Your wife sounds stuck. She's not having a fulfilling intimate relationship with you because you're not able currently to be that way, and you want her to cut off the person that is giving her what she needs.
What do YOU want to do given those parameters?
posted by jbenben at 9:36 AM on April 27, 2018 [8 favorites]
Your wife sounds stuck. She's not having a fulfilling intimate relationship with you because you're not able currently to be that way, and you want her to cut off the person that is giving her what she needs.
What do YOU want to do given those parameters?
posted by jbenben at 9:36 AM on April 27, 2018 [8 favorites]
If my wife didn't have feelings for her, and was just hanging out as friends though? I think this behavior would be fine. But it's her feelings that make her behavior cross the line.
I think you've almost (but not quite) got the heart of it right here. What I see as crossing the line isn't that your wife sees Amy every day or texts her every day or interacts with her in a way she doesn't with her other friends or even that she has a crush on her!
What makes this line-crossing is that when you told your wife that all that made you uncomfortable, she told you that you were wrong to feel uncomfortable, and then she decided that since your discomfort was wrong she could just go on interacting with Amy in the same way; only change is that now she says to you that it isn't a crush, to reinforce to you that you're wrong. That's your wife prioritizing her relationship with Amy over her relationship with you, and that's what makes this a problem, whether or not it's an emotional affair. If your relationship were the priority, your wife would be willing to negotiate how/how much to cool relations with Amy EVEN IF she is being 100% honest when she says the complicated feelings aren't there anymore, and Amy really is just a friend.
All that said, I also agree with We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese - if there is a need you know she has, and you aren't helping her to get it met (either by working on yourself or by working with her to establish how your relationship can accommodate her getting this need met by someone else, you don't have to be someone's everything to be their partner), that's also a problem.
posted by solotoro at 9:38 AM on April 27, 2018 [9 favorites]
I think you've almost (but not quite) got the heart of it right here. What I see as crossing the line isn't that your wife sees Amy every day or texts her every day or interacts with her in a way she doesn't with her other friends or even that she has a crush on her!
What makes this line-crossing is that when you told your wife that all that made you uncomfortable, she told you that you were wrong to feel uncomfortable, and then she decided that since your discomfort was wrong she could just go on interacting with Amy in the same way; only change is that now she says to you that it isn't a crush, to reinforce to you that you're wrong. That's your wife prioritizing her relationship with Amy over her relationship with you, and that's what makes this a problem, whether or not it's an emotional affair. If your relationship were the priority, your wife would be willing to negotiate how/how much to cool relations with Amy EVEN IF she is being 100% honest when she says the complicated feelings aren't there anymore, and Amy really is just a friend.
All that said, I also agree with We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese - if there is a need you know she has, and you aren't helping her to get it met (either by working on yourself or by working with her to establish how your relationship can accommodate her getting this need met by someone else, you don't have to be someone's everything to be their partner), that's also a problem.
posted by solotoro at 9:38 AM on April 27, 2018 [9 favorites]
So two things --
Our ten years also hasn't been the happiest, and a lot of that is my fault, and my issues with intimacy. I wouldn't be surprised if my wife was just really enjoying having some attention, since I am so bad at that.
You say your marriage hasn't been great and you have problems with intimacy. Are you actively working on making it better? Because regardless of your wife's crush/friendship right now, if your marriage isn't providing you both with what you need, that's a big problem. So if you're not working on that but you are telling her to cool this relationship, that might be a pretty tough situation regardless on whether she does or not.
Is she having a physical affair? I honestly don't know. Amy is seemingly happily married, and I also know her, and she doesn't act odd around me. Is she having an emotional affair? I think so.
I'm bi and I get crushes on friends a lot, but because of my commitment to my joyful, fulfilling marriage, I generally keep them to myself. For that reason, I'm not always sold on the "emotional affair" label. I've gotten pretty good at managing my behaviour but my feelings are kinda like that.
I agree that there are standards of conduct for people in marriages, upon which they should mutually agree. And for me, my line emotionally is pretty much a rule that I confide in my husband first and he gets the best part of me, and then from there it's kind of up to me. So if I'm in a fast and furious friendship where my spouse is "losing out" to the friendship, that's not okay. But if he's super busy and everything between us is good, then I might go hang out every day and text a lot and that is okay.*
Because it's not about policing the frequency of my texts, it's about the quality of our marriage.
So from that perspective...you do have a right to bring forward your concerns and have her take them seriously, and it's a real problem that that is not happening. It really doesn't matter if it's an emotional affair or not so much as that you're not okay with it. I would think, though, about what that means and how you BOTH have to be okay. If it's her feelings that are the problem and not her behaviour...what is it that you would like her to do? Cool the hanging out so her feelings have time to calm down? Are you worried that it's going to cross a line?
So...my challenge to you really is it really doesn't matter what is going on as much as that you two resolve it as a team. It does sound like you need counselling.
* My marriage is monogamish, but basically monogamous.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:45 AM on April 27, 2018 [15 favorites]
Our ten years also hasn't been the happiest, and a lot of that is my fault, and my issues with intimacy. I wouldn't be surprised if my wife was just really enjoying having some attention, since I am so bad at that.
You say your marriage hasn't been great and you have problems with intimacy. Are you actively working on making it better? Because regardless of your wife's crush/friendship right now, if your marriage isn't providing you both with what you need, that's a big problem. So if you're not working on that but you are telling her to cool this relationship, that might be a pretty tough situation regardless on whether she does or not.
Is she having a physical affair? I honestly don't know. Amy is seemingly happily married, and I also know her, and she doesn't act odd around me. Is she having an emotional affair? I think so.
I'm bi and I get crushes on friends a lot, but because of my commitment to my joyful, fulfilling marriage, I generally keep them to myself. For that reason, I'm not always sold on the "emotional affair" label. I've gotten pretty good at managing my behaviour but my feelings are kinda like that.
I agree that there are standards of conduct for people in marriages, upon which they should mutually agree. And for me, my line emotionally is pretty much a rule that I confide in my husband first and he gets the best part of me, and then from there it's kind of up to me. So if I'm in a fast and furious friendship where my spouse is "losing out" to the friendship, that's not okay. But if he's super busy and everything between us is good, then I might go hang out every day and text a lot and that is okay.*
Because it's not about policing the frequency of my texts, it's about the quality of our marriage.
So from that perspective...you do have a right to bring forward your concerns and have her take them seriously, and it's a real problem that that is not happening. It really doesn't matter if it's an emotional affair or not so much as that you're not okay with it. I would think, though, about what that means and how you BOTH have to be okay. If it's her feelings that are the problem and not her behaviour...what is it that you would like her to do? Cool the hanging out so her feelings have time to calm down? Are you worried that it's going to cross a line?
So...my challenge to you really is it really doesn't matter what is going on as much as that you two resolve it as a team. It does sound like you need counselling.
* My marriage is monogamish, but basically monogamous.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:45 AM on April 27, 2018 [15 favorites]
Do you have "issues with intimacy," or do you have "issues with intimacy with your wife?" If I were on Year 10 of an unhappy marriage, I doubt if I'd be feeling super sexy and schmoopy toward my partner either. In my experience, "issues with intimacy" are more often a symptom of a deeper dysfunction rather than the cause of it. I have no way of knowing whether that's the case with you specifically, but possibly your issue is simply that you don't want to be intimate with your wife because your relationship sucks, not that you are, like, a broken person. (You are not a broken person.) After ten years of unhappiness with someone, it can be real hard to tell the difference.
Frankly I'm not reading anything in your question that makes me see why you still want to be married to this person. It doesn't sound like the two of you are in love, or that you respect each other, or trust each other, or enjoy living a shared life together. An open marriage as I normally conceive of it won't fix any of those things. What it sounds like is that you want to be functionally divorced while remaining legally married and living a shared life for convenience's sake, and to me that doesn't sound tenable. Admittedly I'm not getting a full picture of your relationship just from reading a single AskMe, but maybe you should put actual divorce back on the table. Yeah it sucks to get divorced and it sucks to be divorced, but not nearly as much as it sucks to live the rest of your life in an unhappy marriage.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:53 AM on April 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
Frankly I'm not reading anything in your question that makes me see why you still want to be married to this person. It doesn't sound like the two of you are in love, or that you respect each other, or trust each other, or enjoy living a shared life together. An open marriage as I normally conceive of it won't fix any of those things. What it sounds like is that you want to be functionally divorced while remaining legally married and living a shared life for convenience's sake, and to me that doesn't sound tenable. Admittedly I'm not getting a full picture of your relationship just from reading a single AskMe, but maybe you should put actual divorce back on the table. Yeah it sucks to get divorced and it sucks to be divorced, but not nearly as much as it sucks to live the rest of your life in an unhappy marriage.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:53 AM on April 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
Speaking as a child of divorced parents who stuck it out 'for the kids'... don't. All you're doing is teaching them by example that marriages aren't supposed to be happy. And you can pretend that they don't know you're unhappy, because you don't fight in front of them. But unless your kids are really stupid - they. will. know.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 10:20 AM on April 27, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 10:20 AM on April 27, 2018 [19 favorites]
I think that questioning whether this is an "affair" is not asking the right question; that's just terminology. For the record, no, I don't think your wife is having an emotional affair, because to my mind any sort of affair has to involve two (or more) people. You can't have an affair with someone who doesn't know they're having an affair with you!
That said, in my book, what your wife is doing is not by any means okay, even though it's not an "affair." There's nothing wrong with having a crush or spending one-on-one time with that person, but at the point at which you've said "this is hurtful to me and harmful to our relationship and I need you to dial this back and put your energy into working on our relationship instead of feeding your crush," and your wife's refusing to do that? That's where a line has been crossed, in my view.
You are allowed to feel hurt and I think it's very reasonable that you do. Couples therapy would be a really good idea. An open relationship could potentially be something to discuss down the road as part of that counselling, but probably not right now, in reaction to a breach of trust in the relationship.
You don't "deserve" any sort of tit-for-tat retaliation because of mistakes you've made in the past, and it's not fair for your wife to throw that at you in a retaliatory way. That said, it is reasonable and valid for her to express that she has lingering pain over your past actions and that her pain is still playing out in your intimacy issues today. That's a discussion you two should have, but not as a fight about Amy - it's a big elephant in the room of its own, and deserves its own time and discussion and care. You fucked up there (and in my book, what you're describing may have been an actual emotional affair on your part), and she gets to feel hurt about that as long as she needs to. But she's still responsible for the actions she takes in response to her feelings.
posted by Stacey at 10:28 AM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
That said, in my book, what your wife is doing is not by any means okay, even though it's not an "affair." There's nothing wrong with having a crush or spending one-on-one time with that person, but at the point at which you've said "this is hurtful to me and harmful to our relationship and I need you to dial this back and put your energy into working on our relationship instead of feeding your crush," and your wife's refusing to do that? That's where a line has been crossed, in my view.
You are allowed to feel hurt and I think it's very reasonable that you do. Couples therapy would be a really good idea. An open relationship could potentially be something to discuss down the road as part of that counselling, but probably not right now, in reaction to a breach of trust in the relationship.
You don't "deserve" any sort of tit-for-tat retaliation because of mistakes you've made in the past, and it's not fair for your wife to throw that at you in a retaliatory way. That said, it is reasonable and valid for her to express that she has lingering pain over your past actions and that her pain is still playing out in your intimacy issues today. That's a discussion you two should have, but not as a fight about Amy - it's a big elephant in the room of its own, and deserves its own time and discussion and care. You fucked up there (and in my book, what you're describing may have been an actual emotional affair on your part), and she gets to feel hurt about that as long as she needs to. But she's still responsible for the actions she takes in response to her feelings.
posted by Stacey at 10:28 AM on April 27, 2018 [2 favorites]
There seems to be a long-standing vacuum in your marriage. You've both filled it with attention from others. You also seem to recognize it and take responsibility for some of the root causes, but that's not enough. Counseling individually for you and a couple's counselor for both of you together seems like the best step right now. Opening a marriage when there's already another party involved is not a good idea. Redirect your efforts into healing the relationship with your spouse and healing the part of you that makes it difficult to provide for her emotional needs. You, your wife, and your kids will benefit greatly from you taking these steps. Good luck!
posted by quince at 10:28 AM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by quince at 10:28 AM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
They are both housewives, so are free during the day to meet up alone without their respective partners around.
how true would it be to say, instead, that they are both housewives, so they are both, to each other, one of the few social/work contacts available to isolated people while their spouses and the entire rest of the working world are away and inaccessible?
maybe your wife has a large circle of other peers who don't work outside the house. maybe many of them also self-identify as queer and have that in common with your wife along with other things. but that would be a rare circumstance and if it is not the case, then no, this is not fair of you. this isn't like having a crush on one officemate when there's an office full of 50 other people you could just as easily talk to instead. You compare this to your own situation when you were admittedly flirting with someone, but you don't say that your wife is flirting with this woman. perhaps she is, but that would be a step beyond having a crush.
you call her a housewife instead of a parent presumably because it's her own chosen job title. if it weren't, that would be an eyebrow-raiser on its own.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:22 AM on April 27, 2018 [33 favorites]
how true would it be to say, instead, that they are both housewives, so they are both, to each other, one of the few social/work contacts available to isolated people while their spouses and the entire rest of the working world are away and inaccessible?
maybe your wife has a large circle of other peers who don't work outside the house. maybe many of them also self-identify as queer and have that in common with your wife along with other things. but that would be a rare circumstance and if it is not the case, then no, this is not fair of you. this isn't like having a crush on one officemate when there's an office full of 50 other people you could just as easily talk to instead. You compare this to your own situation when you were admittedly flirting with someone, but you don't say that your wife is flirting with this woman. perhaps she is, but that would be a step beyond having a crush.
you call her a housewife instead of a parent presumably because it's her own chosen job title. if it weren't, that would be an eyebrow-raiser on its own.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:22 AM on April 27, 2018 [33 favorites]
I agree with everyone saying "Amy is a red herring".
I have experience in the polyamorous community, so I'm coming at this from a perspective on focusing on the relationships you actually have power over (with yourself and with your wife) rather than the ones you are not a part of (your wife and Amy). Also, I'm going to "nitpick" on your phrasing of certain things, not because I think your word choice represents absolute truth, but to call attention to what you're focusing on in writing your question. It may call attention to blind spots in your thought process.
My general barometer for emotional affairs (similar behaviors crop up in polyamory through "new relationship energy") is when an established partner (ie: you) has unmet needs because their partner (your wife) is spending resources on someone else (Amy). Very little in your question addresses how your wife is treating you, or how your interactions with her have changed. You don't mention your needs, just her behavior.
You don't say "my wife won't put her phone down when we are spending time together", just that they text a lot. You don't mention trying to reclaim your wife's attention, just that how she treats someone else hurts your feelings. So it sounds like you're trying to change her behavior over things that don't impact your life. You say yourself that the chatting and hanging out wouldn't bother you if your wife didn't have feelings for Amy.
What do you do?
Focus on your needs. Figure out what they are and how your wife can be involved with meeting them. What actions, habits, and routines make you feel loved and secure and supported in your relationship? What is missing? What do you want your wife to provide? Similarly, what does she need, and what can you provide to her? (Yes, couples counseling is great for this)
If, as a function of working on your relationship, it is necessary for your wife to limit contact with Amy, pursue that. But asking her to cut off what is probably her most important source of social support without working to replace it with something healthier for your relationship is a recipe for resentment and emotional disaster.
I also warn you against the path of "relationship broken; add more people". I know it ~seems~ like a reasonable and realistic way to relieve pressure on your relationship, but it rarely works out that way unless you have a solid foundation of intimacy, trust and communication
posted by itesser at 11:27 AM on April 27, 2018 [39 favorites]
I have experience in the polyamorous community, so I'm coming at this from a perspective on focusing on the relationships you actually have power over (with yourself and with your wife) rather than the ones you are not a part of (your wife and Amy). Also, I'm going to "nitpick" on your phrasing of certain things, not because I think your word choice represents absolute truth, but to call attention to what you're focusing on in writing your question. It may call attention to blind spots in your thought process.
My general barometer for emotional affairs (similar behaviors crop up in polyamory through "new relationship energy") is when an established partner (ie: you) has unmet needs because their partner (your wife) is spending resources on someone else (Amy). Very little in your question addresses how your wife is treating you, or how your interactions with her have changed. You don't mention your needs, just her behavior.
You don't say "my wife won't put her phone down when we are spending time together", just that they text a lot. You don't mention trying to reclaim your wife's attention, just that how she treats someone else hurts your feelings. So it sounds like you're trying to change her behavior over things that don't impact your life. You say yourself that the chatting and hanging out wouldn't bother you if your wife didn't have feelings for Amy.
What do you do?
Focus on your needs. Figure out what they are and how your wife can be involved with meeting them. What actions, habits, and routines make you feel loved and secure and supported in your relationship? What is missing? What do you want your wife to provide? Similarly, what does she need, and what can you provide to her? (Yes, couples counseling is great for this)
If, as a function of working on your relationship, it is necessary for your wife to limit contact with Amy, pursue that. But asking her to cut off what is probably her most important source of social support without working to replace it with something healthier for your relationship is a recipe for resentment and emotional disaster.
I also warn you against the path of "relationship broken; add more people". I know it ~seems~ like a reasonable and realistic way to relieve pressure on your relationship, but it rarely works out that way unless you have a solid foundation of intimacy, trust and communication
posted by itesser at 11:27 AM on April 27, 2018 [39 favorites]
I also warn you against the path of "relationship broken; add more people". I know it ~seems~ like a reasonable and realistic way to relieve pressure on your relationship, but it rarely works out that way unless you have a solid foundation of intimacy, trust and communication
Cannot agree with this enough. Ask me how I know.
Nothing will be right until you shore up that foundation. Jazz it up all you want, but if that mofo is cracked, the house will not stand.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 11:31 AM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
Cannot agree with this enough. Ask me how I know.
Nothing will be right until you shore up that foundation. Jazz it up all you want, but if that mofo is cracked, the house will not stand.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 11:31 AM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
Your wife sounds stuck. She's not having a fulfilling intimate relationship with you because you're not able currently to be that way, and you want her to cut off the person that is giving her what she needs.
Agreed. I don't think you can solve this just by having her cut off contact. That may be part of the picture, but it probably has to go along with a conversation about what's not working in your current relationship and your mutual intent to improve it. Isolation and loneliness, especially as a stay at home parent, can be really painful.
posted by salvia at 11:37 AM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
Agreed. I don't think you can solve this just by having her cut off contact. That may be part of the picture, but it probably has to go along with a conversation about what's not working in your current relationship and your mutual intent to improve it. Isolation and loneliness, especially as a stay at home parent, can be really painful.
posted by salvia at 11:37 AM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
I don't view having a close friendship with someone else (even if she does have a crush!) as having an emotional affair. Our partners cannot reasonably meet all of our emotional needs.
I think that your focus and/or demands regarding how much they see each other or talk is not doing you any favors in convincing your wife that there is a problem. From what you've said, she's not spending time with Amy INSTEAD OF you, but in addition to.
The problematic behavior is the way your wife is endlessly chattering about Amy to you. That's where there is an "instead of." It would obviously be fine for her to share news of her day (Amy and I went to the park, her kid is going through a phase, yada yada yada, anyway how was your day?) It's not okay for your wife to hijack the time that you and she spend together to make it all about her friendship with Amy.
posted by desuetude at 11:38 AM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think that your focus and/or demands regarding how much they see each other or talk is not doing you any favors in convincing your wife that there is a problem. From what you've said, she's not spending time with Amy INSTEAD OF you, but in addition to.
The problematic behavior is the way your wife is endlessly chattering about Amy to you. That's where there is an "instead of." It would obviously be fine for her to share news of her day (Amy and I went to the park, her kid is going through a phase, yada yada yada, anyway how was your day?) It's not okay for your wife to hijack the time that you and she spend together to make it all about her friendship with Amy.
posted by desuetude at 11:38 AM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
My wife has never had a friend like this in the time I've known her - one she texts every day, and who she sees almost daily.
jesus, this though. if she's never cheated on you or given you reason to be suspicious before, this should make you happy for her. a really good close friend when you've never had one before is like a crush even when it's not also a crush. it is about as rare as true love, and as valuable. crushes reach a height of intensity and then fade. real friendship lasts like a marriage does.
if you don't trust her, you don't trust her. maybe she's just not trustworthy. but if you believe her that she's not about to make a move on this woman, it is cruel to try to crush the only intimate friendship she's ever had. if you don't have friends like this, maybe the jealousy is about that, primarily. and if you do, maybe you've lost sight of how precious they are if they're not rare for you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:43 AM on April 27, 2018 [48 favorites]
jesus, this though. if she's never cheated on you or given you reason to be suspicious before, this should make you happy for her. a really good close friend when you've never had one before is like a crush even when it's not also a crush. it is about as rare as true love, and as valuable. crushes reach a height of intensity and then fade. real friendship lasts like a marriage does.
if you don't trust her, you don't trust her. maybe she's just not trustworthy. but if you believe her that she's not about to make a move on this woman, it is cruel to try to crush the only intimate friendship she's ever had. if you don't have friends like this, maybe the jealousy is about that, primarily. and if you do, maybe you've lost sight of how precious they are if they're not rare for you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:43 AM on April 27, 2018 [48 favorites]
And some needed background... maybe I deserve this?
Quick addition to address this:
You deserve a partner who works with you to meet your needs for love and security. Your wife deserves the same. That's all.
I promise you that even though you did play it fast and loose with boundaries in the past, if your wife is at all a decent person, she didn't mentally save up some kind of "credit" to do the same. Your wife is possibly bringing it up because you neglected her needs then and it's possibly a need that still isn't being met.
It's possible that your actions have contributed to this infatuation with Amy, but because of the intimacy vacuum in your marriage, not because you flirted with someone else a few years ago...although, now that i'm saying it, it's possible the same underlying need was called out in both situations.
Food for thought.
posted by itesser at 11:51 AM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Quick addition to address this:
You deserve a partner who works with you to meet your needs for love and security. Your wife deserves the same. That's all.
I promise you that even though you did play it fast and loose with boundaries in the past, if your wife is at all a decent person, she didn't mentally save up some kind of "credit" to do the same. Your wife is possibly bringing it up because you neglected her needs then and it's possibly a need that still isn't being met.
It's possible that your actions have contributed to this infatuation with Amy, but because of the intimacy vacuum in your marriage, not because you flirted with someone else a few years ago...although, now that i'm saying it, it's possible the same underlying need was called out in both situations.
Food for thought.
posted by itesser at 11:51 AM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Aside from an open relationship not fixing things, I don't know how that'd even apply, here. You describe Amy as spending this much time with your wife while "happily married". Unless you're very deeply wrong about that or she's happily married but nonmonogamous, I don't know how you think an open relationship would change what she's doing. Or do you want permission to go romantically pursue other people in exchange for her getting to have some kind of emotional intimacy? But I don't know how that works if you've apparently been disinterested in even pursuing your own wife this way for a long time before this came up. Do you have "intimacy issues", or are you just looking for a way out of being intimate with a person you're no longer interested in, possibly in a way that would free you up to pursue someone else entirely?
I have multiple friends who I am nonromantically at least this close to. One of them I would totally go out with, given a chance--several I definitely wouldn't, part of them aren't even interested in women like that. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be bothered by her being this close to someone else and not you--I'd be bothered by that, too! But man, just given how you wrote this, you don't sound like you want to be closer to her, you sound like you want permission to be close to someone else. And if that's true, it's nothing to do with Amy.
posted by Sequence at 11:57 AM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
I have multiple friends who I am nonromantically at least this close to. One of them I would totally go out with, given a chance--several I definitely wouldn't, part of them aren't even interested in women like that. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be bothered by her being this close to someone else and not you--I'd be bothered by that, too! But man, just given how you wrote this, you don't sound like you want to be closer to her, you sound like you want permission to be close to someone else. And if that's true, it's nothing to do with Amy.
posted by Sequence at 11:57 AM on April 27, 2018 [4 favorites]
A lot of at-home parents have friends they are very close with, text all the time, and see just about every day. I didn't see anything in your question that suggests that this takes away anything from your life or relationship. So saying she needs to step away from it comes across as very controlling.
posted by metasarah at 12:04 PM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by metasarah at 12:04 PM on April 27, 2018 [5 favorites]
It feels a bit like you are asking the wrong question here - you ask "is this an emotional affair" but I think what you really would like to be asking is "how can we be happy together again?" the answers to these questions are very different, and the answers to the second question are going to be way more helpful.
So, do you want to be right, or do you want a good marriage? You can't get to being in a place of love and mutual respect by arguing over who is right and wrong, you have to say "ok, we're not acting like a team here, how can we get back onto the same page, and make sure we are giving each other the love and support we need'
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:09 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
So, do you want to be right, or do you want a good marriage? You can't get to being in a place of love and mutual respect by arguing over who is right and wrong, you have to say "ok, we're not acting like a team here, how can we get back onto the same page, and make sure we are giving each other the love and support we need'
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:09 PM on April 27, 2018 [7 favorites]
The only people who can answer the questions of loyalty in a relationship are the people in it. We can't tell you if this is crossing a line - that's for you to decide. There's no quantifiable line, there's guidelines and most used practices, but nothing you can point to and say "A-HA! See! I'm right!" to her. This has to be something you work out between you.
In my relationship (queer in a het presenting relationship), some of this would be ok & some of it wouldn't, namely the seemingly obvious lying about feelings would be not ok. But my spouse and I spent a lot of time discussing our own boundaries and how those work together or don't.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:30 PM on April 27, 2018
In my relationship (queer in a het presenting relationship), some of this would be ok & some of it wouldn't, namely the seemingly obvious lying about feelings would be not ok. But my spouse and I spent a lot of time discussing our own boundaries and how those work together or don't.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 12:30 PM on April 27, 2018
> how true would it be to say, instead, that they are both housewives, so they are both, to each other, one of the few social/work contacts available to isolated people while their spouses and the entire rest of the working world are away and inaccessible?
I'm a housewife and want to second this. There aren't many of us around these days, so when you find someone who can meet you for coffee, or is up for a trip to Ikea on a weekday and also is willing to structure social events around the kids' naps, it's wonderful. I'm texting all day long to the few other fulltime parents I know, and meeting up with them for volunteer work or for ridiculous errands because otherwise I might not talk to any adults all day other than the cashier at Costco. Your wife is seeing her friend every day but you're probably seeing people all day too, you just have more people available to see.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:04 PM on April 27, 2018 [20 favorites]
I'm a housewife and want to second this. There aren't many of us around these days, so when you find someone who can meet you for coffee, or is up for a trip to Ikea on a weekday and also is willing to structure social events around the kids' naps, it's wonderful. I'm texting all day long to the few other fulltime parents I know, and meeting up with them for volunteer work or for ridiculous errands because otherwise I might not talk to any adults all day other than the cashier at Costco. Your wife is seeing her friend every day but you're probably seeing people all day too, you just have more people available to see.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:04 PM on April 27, 2018 [20 favorites]
how true would it be to say, instead, that they are both housewives, so they are both, to each other, one of the few social/work contacts available to isolated people while their spouses and the entire rest of the working world are away and inaccessible
I wanted to second this too - if you’ve never been a SAHP (and maybe you have), then you really don’t understand how lonely and isolating it can be with no adult company. Much as I adore our son, I used to be so relieved when it got to 6pm and I knew my husband would be home soon. And every Mum I know filled their day with walks, coffees, baby sensory and anything else they could think of to get themselves out of the house and interacting with other people.
If Amy is another school Mum they will presumably be meeting daily anyway. It’s very easy from there to fall into getting coffee together daily, and texting back and forth about this and that. It sounds like your wife is terribly lonely and has leapt on this friendship like a lifeline, rather than having an affair. And if your reaction to what to her is her lovely new friendship is sulkiness and jealousy, that is just going to cause resentment and drive you further apart.
And yep the immediate jump to “let’s have an open marriage” rather than “let’s go to Relate” does sound a bit like you’ve been looking for an excuse to shag around and now you’ve found one.
posted by tinkletown at 1:50 PM on April 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
I wanted to second this too - if you’ve never been a SAHP (and maybe you have), then you really don’t understand how lonely and isolating it can be with no adult company. Much as I adore our son, I used to be so relieved when it got to 6pm and I knew my husband would be home soon. And every Mum I know filled their day with walks, coffees, baby sensory and anything else they could think of to get themselves out of the house and interacting with other people.
If Amy is another school Mum they will presumably be meeting daily anyway. It’s very easy from there to fall into getting coffee together daily, and texting back and forth about this and that. It sounds like your wife is terribly lonely and has leapt on this friendship like a lifeline, rather than having an affair. And if your reaction to what to her is her lovely new friendship is sulkiness and jealousy, that is just going to cause resentment and drive you further apart.
And yep the immediate jump to “let’s have an open marriage” rather than “let’s go to Relate” does sound a bit like you’ve been looking for an excuse to shag around and now you’ve found one.
posted by tinkletown at 1:50 PM on April 27, 2018 [6 favorites]
Two housewives spending this much time together is not unusual. But statistically speaking I'm really surprised that two queer stay-at-home moms found each other in the same school boundaries with soooo much in common.
The chances of being queer and and a stay at home mom and physically attractive and living in the same neighborhood and having kids the same age and insanely compatible with each other are just wildly low. Based on that I think you have every right to be worried. If she just wanted a friend I'm sure she's come in contact with far more non-queer stay-at-home moms where they shared plenty of interests but not romantic preferences. Instead she's cherry-picked the one proximate woman capable of reciprocating romantic feelings.
Amy is probably not oblivious to your wife's attentions. It is very likely that Amy shares these feelings but is better at hiding them. No one wants to spend that much time with a friend with unreciprocated sexual tension in the mix. It's uncomfortable for both parties.
I'm going to echo what others have said and take it farther. What I see are two stay-at-home women with strong feelings for each other but financial dependency on their working spouses and ties to children. If either of them had a career, or was childless, your marriage would already be over.
You can go to counseling, not to salvage your marriage, but to set a clean and amicable slate for divorce. Divorce sucks but you can take steps to make it tolerable.
posted by ticktickatick at 1:55 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
The chances of being queer and and a stay at home mom and physically attractive and living in the same neighborhood and having kids the same age and insanely compatible with each other are just wildly low. Based on that I think you have every right to be worried. If she just wanted a friend I'm sure she's come in contact with far more non-queer stay-at-home moms where they shared plenty of interests but not romantic preferences. Instead she's cherry-picked the one proximate woman capable of reciprocating romantic feelings.
Amy is probably not oblivious to your wife's attentions. It is very likely that Amy shares these feelings but is better at hiding them. No one wants to spend that much time with a friend with unreciprocated sexual tension in the mix. It's uncomfortable for both parties.
I'm going to echo what others have said and take it farther. What I see are two stay-at-home women with strong feelings for each other but financial dependency on their working spouses and ties to children. If either of them had a career, or was childless, your marriage would already be over.
You can go to counseling, not to salvage your marriage, but to set a clean and amicable slate for divorce. Divorce sucks but you can take steps to make it tolerable.
posted by ticktickatick at 1:55 PM on April 27, 2018 [3 favorites]
The chances of being queer and and a stay at home mom and physically attractive and living in the same neighborhood and having kids the same age and insanely compatible with each other are just wildly low. Based on that I think you have every right to be worried. If she just wanted a friend I'm sure she's come in contact with far more non-queer stay-at-home moms where they shared plenty of interests but not romantic preferences. Instead she's cherry-picked the one proximate woman capable of reciprocating romantic feelings.
Uh . . . I just want to say that in my experience queer women are great at finding one another, including among stay at home parents. I'm a queer work from home parent and one of my best mom friends is also a queer work from home mom and we play dominoes with other queer ladies once a month and finding other queer people is important and exciting when you are deep in a culture that is heteronormative.
This friendship as described doesn't ring particular alarm bells for me, and I think OP should focus on improving their marriage rather than forbidding a supportive friendship.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:23 PM on April 27, 2018 [19 favorites]
Uh . . . I just want to say that in my experience queer women are great at finding one another, including among stay at home parents. I'm a queer work from home parent and one of my best mom friends is also a queer work from home mom and we play dominoes with other queer ladies once a month and finding other queer people is important and exciting when you are deep in a culture that is heteronormative.
This friendship as described doesn't ring particular alarm bells for me, and I think OP should focus on improving their marriage rather than forbidding a supportive friendship.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:23 PM on April 27, 2018 [19 favorites]
Yes, I know a few lesbian full-time parents, although as a straight person I can’t speak to their physical attractiveness (?). And many of my friends now are not the friends I would have predicted I would make back before I became a housewife. Other than that they’re mostly female, it’s a much more diverse crew than when I worked in an office. It doesn’t surprise me that two queer women could find each other and get along.
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:03 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:03 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wish I could favorite this more than once.
posted by salvia at 9:26 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 9:26 PM on April 27, 2018 [1 favorite]
Uh . . . I just want to say that in my experience queer women are great at finding one another, including among stay at home parents. I'm a queer work from home parent and one of my best mom friends is also a queer work from home mom and we play dominoes with other queer ladies once a month and finding other queer people is important and exciting when you are deep in a culture that is heteronormative.
But yet, you say "finding one another." Which implies a level of effort to find another queer person in a sea of heteronormative people. That's still a different friend-finding mechanism than, "oh, I just met this other mom at school and she just happens to be queer soulmate material."
Not that I blame wife for trying to find another queer person to relate to. But if she's going to the effort of finding a queer woman in the "sea" of heteronormative, couldn't she have found a queer dad to strike up a friendship with? Have the queer to relate to but not the potential for romantic attraction? There's also plenty of heterosexual stay-at-home moms that are A-OK if you're queer. Can't wife get more queer relation from her spouse than from another queer mom that she's also attracted to? She's already admitted to having a crush on Amy, and the chances that Amy genuinely hasn't noticed during all this time are pretty low. That's a people thing, not a queer thing. Married adults who are also parents generally have enough life and relationship experience to notice sexual tension from friends.
posted by ticktickatick at 10:46 AM on April 28, 2018
But yet, you say "finding one another." Which implies a level of effort to find another queer person in a sea of heteronormative people. That's still a different friend-finding mechanism than, "oh, I just met this other mom at school and she just happens to be queer soulmate material."
Not that I blame wife for trying to find another queer person to relate to. But if she's going to the effort of finding a queer woman in the "sea" of heteronormative, couldn't she have found a queer dad to strike up a friendship with? Have the queer to relate to but not the potential for romantic attraction? There's also plenty of heterosexual stay-at-home moms that are A-OK if you're queer. Can't wife get more queer relation from her spouse than from another queer mom that she's also attracted to? She's already admitted to having a crush on Amy, and the chances that Amy genuinely hasn't noticed during all this time are pretty low. That's a people thing, not a queer thing. Married adults who are also parents generally have enough life and relationship experience to notice sexual tension from friends.
posted by ticktickatick at 10:46 AM on April 28, 2018
N’thing it’s not unusual to want to see a friend everyday, especially if they are both stay at home moms. Consider them co-workers. Also sometimes admitting a crush helps to set a damper on it. For now just make an agreement that you’ll talk about your crushes to each other and then focus on doing fun things when you’re together. Be happy that your wife isn’t so isolated during the day and has someone to talk to! Friendship is healthy and may even put her in a more pleasant place when it comes to tackling the challenges that come with life/marriage/momhood.
posted by donut_princess at 4:42 AM on April 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by donut_princess at 4:42 AM on April 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Hetero guy here, was for years the at-home parent. During that time period I had a few close women friends who were also at-home parents. I saw them every day - didn't text because back then texting wasn't common. Parenting is a lonesome, stressful business and I was grateful for adult friendships. No affairs, emotional or otherwise. It's entirely possible that your wife is just excited and happy to not be so alone.
posted by eustacescrubb at 5:31 AM on April 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by eustacescrubb at 5:31 AM on April 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
how true would it be to say, instead, that they are both housewives, so they are both, to each other, one of the few social/work contacts available to isolated people while their spouses and the entire rest of the working world are away and inaccessible?
THIS. I was a solo stay-at-home-parent for literally 5 weeks (my maternity leave minus the parental leave my husband had so we were both at home during that time), and STILL nearly went stir-crazy with lack of social interaction. Now, I am clearly not cut out to be a good stay-at-home-parent, and many people are much more so than me, but none-the-less, it can be SO lonely! If I had a good social thing going with a friend and my spouse told me to cut it out because he was jealous, I probably would have just started sobbing. Keep in mind you get to go out to work every day and see lots of people have plenty of social interaction, but it's a LOT harder when you're not working and have to bring children with you everywhere you go. To me, this just sounds like an important friendship. If you guys are having marital problems, definitely go see a counselor, but I just feel like it is cruel to try to cut off your wife's social lifeline during the workday.
posted by rainbowbrite at 2:09 PM on April 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
THIS. I was a solo stay-at-home-parent for literally 5 weeks (my maternity leave minus the parental leave my husband had so we were both at home during that time), and STILL nearly went stir-crazy with lack of social interaction. Now, I am clearly not cut out to be a good stay-at-home-parent, and many people are much more so than me, but none-the-less, it can be SO lonely! If I had a good social thing going with a friend and my spouse told me to cut it out because he was jealous, I probably would have just started sobbing. Keep in mind you get to go out to work every day and see lots of people have plenty of social interaction, but it's a LOT harder when you're not working and have to bring children with you everywhere you go. To me, this just sounds like an important friendship. If you guys are having marital problems, definitely go see a counselor, but I just feel like it is cruel to try to cut off your wife's social lifeline during the workday.
posted by rainbowbrite at 2:09 PM on April 29, 2018 [3 favorites]
But if she's going to the effort of finding a queer woman in the "sea" of heteronormative, couldn't she have found a queer dad to strike up a friendship with? Have the queer to relate to but not the potential for romantic attraction?
Only if her main criteria for friendship is avoiding any possibility of paranoid irrational possessive jealousy. (Also, how many stay at home queer dads do you think are in any given area?)
It is not suspicious for two queer women to be friends, FFS.
posted by desuetude at 9:30 PM on April 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
Only if her main criteria for friendship is avoiding any possibility of paranoid irrational possessive jealousy. (Also, how many stay at home queer dads do you think are in any given area?)
It is not suspicious for two queer women to be friends, FFS.
posted by desuetude at 9:30 PM on April 29, 2018 [7 favorites]
I think your wife is getting something from this she isn't getting at home. It sounds like you feel/know you aren't putting an emotion into your relationship that she needs and, being on the receiving end of that in my own relationship, it can make you feel so unlovable, undesirable, and lonely. That said, I think she needs to be honest with you and herself about the nature of her interest in the other woman. If she is hitting at you with your past transgressions, that sounds like, in her heart of hearts, she knows she's feeling a bit more than friends with this lady. If she can't be honest about this, you two can't have a real conversation about how to fix what's wrong.
posted by Foam Pants at 12:20 AM on May 1, 2018
posted by Foam Pants at 12:20 AM on May 1, 2018
Mod note: From the OP:
OP here - after an intense weekend, my wife finally came clean and admitted that her she had been lying to me about her feelings for Amy. She simply didn't want to admit to them, because then she would have to come to terms with her bad behavior, and it was easier to just make me out to be possessive and jealous.posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 6:12 AM on May 4, 2018
The answers here were good to read, but I think it may have hurt more than helped the situation. I don't think I conveyed how obvious her feelings were or how hurtful it was to our relationship. Everyone coming to her aid as 'a poor SAHM who just wanted a friend because I am clearly cold and distant' really was just giving her even more excuses, and it sounds like I hit a nerve with a lot of people here, and people projected their own details into my story. Being a SAHM doesn't give her any more excuse to inappropriately pursue crushes anymore than my proximity with my coworkers does for me.
The main reason I wanted to come back to the post is because I wanted to share a thread that I found that actually helped a lot. It basically outlines boundaries similar to those my wife and I had come to over the weekend. We understand crushes happen, and if we want a strong and lasting marriage, then we need a plan to deal with them.
really was just giving her even more excuses
Wait, the OP showed her this thread? That's always a really bad idea.
posted by eustacescrubb at 4:30 AM on May 5, 2018
Wait, the OP showed her this thread? That's always a really bad idea.
posted by eustacescrubb at 4:30 AM on May 5, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
And some needed background... maybe I deserve this?
Nope! That's not how relationships work. Okay, so you had a crush a few years ago and didn't behave great. You have some intimacy issues. But a relationship should never be about tit-for-tat... when one partner messes up, they make it right, but don't "deserve" to be treated in the same fashion at a later date to make things "even."
To give a real-life example that I hope you won't find trite: Earlier this week my bf and I were working on a home improvement project, and he got snappy with me. (We've since made up.) It sucked to be snapped at, but it would not be okay for me to purposely snap at him next time we're doing a project just to make us even.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 9:01 AM on April 27, 2018 [10 favorites]