[Job] Offer I can't refuse?

April 23, 2018 10:58 AM

Please help me understand if an upcoming work "opportunity" that's being offered to me is patronage or patronizing.

So, I've been gently asking for a new role / working with my Boss to determine next steps for me within my company. Now it comes to pass that a Higher Up powerful person in Department X (not my department but people with whom I work frequently) has a new role planned for me (as part of a multi role mini re-org). He has gotten buy in from HR and my Boss, but neither Boss nor Higher Up is ready to tell me what this new role will be. Higher Up has a lot of clout within the company.

I came to know Higher Up's plans over drinks but coudn't get details from him. I mentioned that I like to have agency and control in what I want my next move to be, and got back drunken indignation that I wouldn't want his guidance and blessing within the company. He claimed to know the kind of work I'd be interested in. (I realized afterwards he must have had discussions with my Boss. However Boss doesn't know all my thoughts-- some of which are I don't really want to work for Boss any longer.)

With much emotional labor from me, Higher Up and I ended our chat on a good note. I also discovered that this mini reorg will not fly if any of the people involved turn him down, so I have some leverage here. I'm imaging a variety of roles I could get placed in (or shunted off to). Some I'd be happy about and some very not. But I can't lose the bad taste of "Higher Up thinks I'm his puppet".

I know my blue collar roots are showing here, and I'm a woman in a male dominated field. Is this kind of thing common? Should I be pleased to have Higher Up's spotlight? Or are they assuming I'll smile and take whatever is handed to me? In digging around Ask a Manager
I came across the idea of _Good to Great Company_ and "moving people to different seats on the bus", so I guess this happens, but I haven't experienced this in my career ( which has been 20 years in various cubicles -- most recently having a boss steal my ideas and his boss ogle me, so not a great foundation of well run bizness norms.) So far my current company has been great though.

The other shoe should drop later this week. I intend to ask for time to think, offer compromises (if I need them) to the role offered, and negotiate the hell out of salary. But I have no idea what my best alternative would be if I say no. I think I have enough contacts in the rest of the company to find a place to land if I burn a bridge and I have enough savings to rage quit but do like the company as a whole, so would prefer to find a third way if these machinations turn out to be insulting bullshit.

posted by travertina to Work & Money (17 answers total)

Best answer: It sounds to me like a manager in another department has a role he needs to fill and thought of you because you do a good job. I don't see how this is in any way insulting. I see this sort of thing happen in my company all the time - managers are in fact encouraged to look within the organization to provide opportunity for our top talents when a role becomes available on their team, and it sounds like this person is going through the proper steps clearing it with HR and your manager first.

Once the role is presented to you, if it doesn't sound like a great fit you can always decline. If this affects your standing or relationships in the company and/or causes you to be denied other opportunities in the future, that's doesn't say great things about your company culture. In a healthy workplace, people decline these sorts of things all the time for various reasons (not a great fit, don't want to move, family commitments, etc) and if they're strong performers before the transfer offer, they're still considered strong performers afterward.
posted by something something at 11:07 AM on April 23, 2018 [14 favorites]

Completely agree with something something above.

I'd just like to add, we add a lot of emotional energy into "status" and "position" and "being in the spotlight" and "clout" - but when applying for your next job at the next company, all of this goes out the window. In the end, you get paid a certain amount, and hopefully you provide enough value to the company to get by. I wouldn't lose too much sleep about pushing up towards the top if you are happy with the amount of work and money you have now.

I've pushed higher than I've deserved a few times and it's given me a ton more stress. Taking a chill approach to work is where all the happy people I work with come from. They get the work done - work on enough continuous improvement to not be sitting still, and collect their 3% raise and annual bonus.
posted by bbqturtle at 11:16 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]

Something seems a bit odd to me - a potential boss offering some mystery role they won't define while drinking with you and showing indignation at the notion of you turning them down? Given you are a female in a male-dominated workforce, my Spidey senses would be tingling awfully hard at how real or beneficial this whole thing would be. At a minimum, I would stop drinking with potential boss asap until things firm up.
posted by notorious medium at 11:17 AM on April 23, 2018 [24 favorites]

I think it can be a good thing, but don't let it turn into a dangling carrot. I wasted a long time in my career believing that my version of this "opportunity" would actually materialize and wasn't just the big boss shooting off his mouth. Boss leaves, others get their opportunities and I am in the exact same seat I was 10 years ago.
posted by cabingirl at 11:17 AM on April 23, 2018

Best answer: In your position I'd just be prepared to listen very very hard to the offer and don't let them persuade you into a position that you don't want just because they want a warm body in it and have decided you're the sucker. It might very well be a great fit, but I'd remain medium-grade skeptical because of the weird frontloading from the boss.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:19 AM on April 23, 2018 [13 favorites]

When you started mentioning secrecy about the new role and how dude got indignant when you expressed a desire for agency I immediately wondered if you were a woman in a male dominated workplace. I was sad to see confirmation.

I am going to say you are being forced into a shitty situation and should start looking for an exit. If you take the new role, you’ll be beholden to a dude who doesn’t treat you like a person. If you don’t, you’ll have pissed him off and he’ll start sabotaging you.

Sometimes someone fucks with you at work and the only sane response is to jet.

Maybe I’m wrong. But gut feelings are worth listening to. In any case keep your eyes open and start reaching out to genuine allies at current employer, and nose around for a better job before it becomes difficult to get a good reference.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:40 AM on April 23, 2018 [11 favorites]

It's not clear how optional the reorganization is; this could be anything from a company leader trying to help a colleague whose position is being axed, to some wannabe mover and shaker trying to surround himself with people he sees as "nice ladies" that will be too polite to shoot down his ridiculous ideas. I've been part of the former before and the results were really positive for me.

At this point it sounds like you're borrowing some trouble about reacting so negatively to something you don't even know the specifics of yet. In his place I'd probably be taken aback by that. (As someone raised working class I'm taken aback by the idea of actually considering oneself to HAVE any agency in a workplace, but that may just be my thing.) Just stick with bland enthusiasm until you have a job description, salary, etc in writing.
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:42 AM on April 23, 2018

Best answer: I intend to ask for time to think

Given what you've learned about Higher Up's prickliness vis-a-vis even a gentle suggestion that you have agency and prefer to exercise control over your career, I think you need to find a better way to phrase this request. Maybe something on the order of suggesting that you know you'll have further questions and it would be more efficient if you had them all organized first, ergo you need a few days. Another route might be suggesting that this conversation should occur after the entire new/reshuffled project team has heard the plan... which is true, because the roles others will play have bearing on your questions, concerns, and threshold requirements.
posted by carmicha at 11:42 AM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]

Don't have drinks with people from work. I'm serious. The guy you were drinking with sounds unprofessional with a few drinks in him, such that you had to manage his reactions to you. Don't repeat this behavior. Drink an arnold palmer if you get stuck. Overall it is best not to socialize at bars with people you work with.

I would not be surprised if the is no offer towards the end of the week. I don't think this was a real opportunity, just some drunk guy throwing his ego around. The tip off was that it's all secret + the "opportunity" might easily be scuttled by others. Yeah, this was bullshit drunk talk. Ignore it. Be wary if anything comes of it? No more drinks with this guy or anyone else at work.
posted by jbenben at 11:46 AM on April 23, 2018 [14 favorites]

I put it poorly, but your gut feeling that this is hinky is A+ and the Big Clue is that this happened over drinks and not in a professional setting, then the guy got seriously unprofessional. Plus the secrecy bit.
posted by jbenben at 11:53 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]

Seconding to forget about everything said over drinks. Anything that comes up outside of that you can always take it "under advisement" in order to sleep on it, just treat everything as a submission and tell them in some words "thanks, sounds interesting. let's talk more tomorrow/in a day or two/next week/etc." Don't let people hustle you into making decisions on the spot, just take in the information.
posted by rhizome at 12:08 PM on April 23, 2018

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. You have no idea what this new role is. And given that it's part of a larger reorganization it's unlikely to be someone 'puppeting' you. The fact that a higher up mentioned this to you implies, if anything, that they think you'd like this role.

Just wait and see -- you're deep in baseless speculation territory right now.
posted by so fucking future at 12:16 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]

Best answer: I've had this happen and my spidey senses tingled just as yours are.

It was indeed a shitty demotion to take over someone else's grunt work, framed as a promotion. I felt pressured so I took it, it was awful and I hated it and I was eventually fired, even though I had been lauded organization-wide for being a rockstar in my previous role.

100% trust your gut, and listen verrry carefully to what's on offer. And it would likely be useful to start thinking of tactful ways to ask for more time and eventually say no.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:17 PM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]

Response by poster: I've realized I should clarify-- the mini reorg was confirmed by my Boss and not just drunk talk on Higher Up's part. I mentioned the booze as *why* the beans were partially spilled. He likes to wield power / knowledge but wouldn't make up something out of whole cloth, and is actually one of the better members of Department X at working with women. (Working in Department X is one of the "no thank you" scenarios I'm imagining-- partially because of the drinking culture within it.)

I really appreciate all the viewpoints here -- it sounds like this isn't wholly unheard of as a process leading to both good / bad outcomes.
posted by travertina at 1:32 PM on April 23, 2018

Best answer: just wanted to say that 'blue collar roots' is near to my heart. Wanted to give some suggestions:

Management is not always out to get us (?). They may know why they're doing things but unable to communicate them to you (for various reasons, some may be personal and some may be corporate or culture driven). One thing I've learned is that if you can ask questions that are not pointed or seem like they're questioning their ability, etc... you're going to get a better outcome.

You should always feel like you can say no or have the ability to walk away from an undesirable outcome. Part of this is building up that financial safety net but part is communication as well. If you're going to turn away an opportunity that doesn't fit, make sure that you're clear why you're doing it and hopefully its got a 'what's good for the company' component to that.

This sounds to me like you may be getting a promotion (but I'm not your manager). When the time to discuss that position actually comes around make sure you're clear on what the expectations of that position are. Its not crazy to ask "if I were to take position X, in order to be successful, what do you think I would be doing?" or "what are your expectations for this role?" (or a combination of the two)
posted by kookywon at 2:57 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]

Without knowing more about where you work it's hard to say for certain what's going on.

In many companies and particularly the larger ones, new product/project initiatives are planned by upper management, and the rank-and-file are not informed until the general announcement and release plan is made. There are a few reasons for doing this; some are manipulative (need to trap staffers for a doomed-before-it-starts project before they can find their parachutes), some are legit (have to avoid spreading rumors about a project while its plan, funding, and resources are still in flux, or before the client contract is signed).

Without knowing more about where you work and your office culture, it's hard to make an informed guess whether this is good or bad for you. Do you have any peers who've spent more time in the company that you can take out for lunch to chat about the office culture with? Learn how projects start up and wind down, try to avoid tipping your hand w/r/t what your chain of managers seem to be positioning you for.

Nobody is irreplaceable, and you should keep this in mind if you feel like you are being pressured into accepting a role you don't want.
posted by at by at 4:12 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Guess who just got a promotion? This gal! I've done a lot of learning over the past few months on how business gets done, and I'm super excited. Thanks everyone for the kind words and advice above and throughout the site-- MeFites are even better than Ask a Manager!
posted by travertina at 8:07 PM on June 24, 2018