Just had our first tough moment, she just forgave me, I need some advice
April 4, 2018 5:51 PM Subscribe
Last Saturday, my girlfriend and I faced our first tough moment. (she's my first one, we've been going out nearly a year, she lives an hour away, we see each other on average 3 weekends a month.) It really was all my fault. We are both intensely busy and stressed - me with my coursework and her with finishing up her internship as a school psychologist and graduating with a Masters in May. As she put it, this past Saturday was the last weekend where she could have a moment free from stress.
The weekend prior to last weekend we had talked about this, but we had also talked about my friend who I haven't seen in almost 2 months joining us to hang out at the river. So last Saturday she (my friend) did - I went with my GF and my friend. (My friend is lesbian btw and acts like a dude, so there's no sexual competition going on. My GF and I have talked about this). Anyway, here's where I effed up. We got back to my apartment around 7pm. My GF said she wanted to spend some alone time with me. But we had also as a group talked about getting dinner and going out clubbing. So my thinking was that since I see my GF once a weekend, and I haven't seen my friend in a month and a half, I'd rather continue on with the plan of going out.
So yeah, I heard what my GF wanted and I didn't act on it.
I was a little frustrated because my GF had been spending a lot of time with her mom, which I was cool with, but I was figuring "If she wanted to spend alone time with me, why didn't she make time yesterday?" I didn't want to make a scene, so I texted something along the lines of "Hey, I totally respect your relationship with your mom and think it's great that it's so strong. But I have a good relationship with my friend. I respect your time with her, why can't we spend time with my friend?" Also, she could have done work on Sunday at my apartment, but she left her laptop at her moms. So I lightly brought that up in the text as well - "I just wish you had brought your laptop, that way we could spend time tomorrow working together".
There were many moments where my friend must have sensed that something was up, because on retrospect she kept on asking if everything was okay, if we were tired, etc. I went to go take a shower, while my GF and my friend stayed in my room and had friendly smalltalk. When I came out, my GF told me with a straight face that it was okay, that we could go ahead with the plans with my friend.
So that's how I took it.
In RETROSPECT, it's so obvious the moments I could have avoided the problem. It's so obvious what I did wrong. She later told me (more on that a bit later) but I didn't need her to tell me. I knew upon retrospective reflection.
We all three went to a restaurant - my GF was a little quiet, but I thought she was tired and would just get a second wind (STUPID - I should never wait for her to get her energy back - I should ask if she's alright and offer an out, or even better just make the decision myself and tell my friend that we are tired and want to go our separate ways).
We then went to the club - we are all a bit tired at this point, but my friend and I were like "It's okay. The energy of the club will wake us up". We get there, and my GF isn't very animated. After a while, she has had enough and runs into the bathroom. Alarmed, I go after her (stand outside the restroom). She comes out, says she isn't feeling it, and cries into my hug. I tell her it's okay and that we are going to leave. We are all three quiet on the drive home.
My friend lives an hour away and it's pretty late. I say that it's okay for her to sleep on the couch. I take my dog out to pee, and when I get back, my GF is asleep with the covers over her head in my bed. I lay down and sleep. At this point, I think she's annoyed, but I haven't realized the fullness of my mistakes.
Next morning, I'm surprised that my friend is still there. Instead of telling her we want a morning alone, I say let's go get breakfast and then my friend can leave. And so it's about 1:30pm before my friend leaves.
Immediatly when my friend walks out the door, my GF turns, runs into my room, grabs her stuff, says "I've been holding in my screaming for so long", and runs down to her car. I go after her, ask to sit in the car with her, and it's at this point that I'm starting to realize the fullness of what I've done.
I hug her over and over, tell her I'm so sorry, listen to her, and tell her my understanding of what I've done wrong. I tell her that I understand how she felt ignored. How she felt like the third wheel. She says she feels like her trust in me has been betrayed. That she trusted that I would stand up for her but I repeatedly let her down.
I plead that I'm so so so sorry, that I understand what I've done wrong and that I'll never do it again. But it doesn't matter - my words are useless.
She drives off, and I remember the text I sent her. She has two phones, and I accidentally sent it to the one she doesn't usually check, so I call her and tell her the message I sent - I wanted to tell her and apologize in advance before she saw it on her own.
We usually talk every night. I'm freaking out with guilt - legit guilt - and I'm scared because I've never seen her mad like this before. I've never heard her say the things she has said before - words like betrayal, statements like "I can't trust you; you let me down".
So on Monday, I'm feeling depressed and scared. I give her a call after class and she's very flat. We don't talk all that long, but I acknowledge that it's going to take some time for her to recover. When I say bye, she says nothing in return and hangs up on me. At this point, I'm even more scared.
And so we come to yesterday, Tuesday. I wasn't planning on calling her - I was planning on giving her space - but she calls me that evening. She calmly explains things from her perspective, why she reacted the way she did, and explicitly states what I did wrong. They were all things that I had already realized myself and that I had been obsessively fixated on with guilt and a desire to go back in time and undo.
- She felt trapped. She felt like she couldn't leave because it would be super rude to my friend and cause a scene, and she couldn't count on me to intervene.
- She felt like her time was being wasted.
- She almost in a way felt emotionally abused. Neglected may have been a better word, but I know what she means.
- She felt like I didn't love her. That all the words I've said for the nearly past year all fell flat when it mattered. My actions undid my words.
- She felt like I was a stranger. She didn't recognize who I was - it was like I had changed.
- She felt out of place and that she couldn't contribute to some of the conversations my friend and I were having.
I quietly listened and didn't apologize that much, because I knew that my apologizes meant nothing. I mean, I did say I'm so sorry two times and that if I ever do something like this again, she should leave me and find someone who will treat her right. But by and large, I kept on repeating that my words don't mean anything right now - her trust is breached. Only time can prove my case of how sorry I am.
So here's where things are. She's going to give me a second chance. She said I could come over Saturday, but that she'd be working (I'm going to head on over, since time is the thing she values most and I want to give her my time).
When I get there, I want to both try to regain normalcy if she's willing for that to happen, but also ask her any other ways I've hurt her in the past and what I can do to start the process of regaining her trust.
I'm not going to call her between now and Saturday. I plan on texting her Friday to see when I can come over Saturday, but I don't think it's wise to talk over the phone until I see her face to face. Things aren't normal, and the only way they can start to be normal again is face to face interaction. She may call me, which is different... that's her call. But I'm not counting on it.
Now here's the thing. Before this huge mistake, I felt like I was being an amazing boyfriend. And her feedback never told me otherwise. I haven't been perfect, but I've taken this relationship very seriously and tried to do the correct thing every time.
Primarily, I feel disturbed for two reasons - the first of which is that the only excuse I have for how I acted is that I've had a couple of nights of all nighters (my brain is a little on the fritz) and that I'm insanely stressed out. So my judgement may be clouded. When I tell myself this, I feel like it's bullshit, that it doesn't excuse anything. But at the same time, I would never purposefully hurt her like I did. Never. I love her so much. I'm disturbed by what I did and my inability to explain it away with even the weakest of excuses. It scares me, because I never want to hurt her like this again.
Secondarily, I feel disturbed that one evening of not being on the ball undid all of the memories that we have shared, all of the times that I went and cleaned her house without being asked, all the times that I did this, that, etc. All the moments that I tried my best to be the best boyfriend ever. In one fell swoop, she can't trust me and doesn't know if I truly love her. I'm putting a bit of my blame and projection into this... she hasn't said that I've undone everything. I just feel like I have. I feel like I have to start at square one building this relationship back up, patching the hole I tore. And I'm gracious (I told her how gracious I was) to have the opportunity to do so (rather than the alternative of her ditching me).
And as a brief aside that I don't feel like I should bring up any time soon, there are times that she hasn't been the perfect girlfriend. She's been amazing - we are so compatible with each other in so many ways - but there are times where she's been moody and I've always been there to bring her back up. I get it, I've been moody too. But I feel like if I wanted to, there could be a number of minor things that I could pick out and complain about. Not that what I did was minor and not that she's complaining. But I just feel like the narrative that she's great and that I've been a monster and that I have to regain her trust (almost as if I cheated) isn't telling the whole story.
Overall, I feel sad. Sad that I let the most important person in my life down. Sad that she doesn't know how much I love her. Sad about all the progress that has been lost. Sad that I let myself down by not being what I think she deserves - the best boyfriend ever.
For those of you who have read all of my ramblings, do you have any comments? Advice? Perspectives? I don't have a therapist right now, but getting this out there has been helpful.
The weekend prior to last weekend we had talked about this, but we had also talked about my friend who I haven't seen in almost 2 months joining us to hang out at the river. So last Saturday she (my friend) did - I went with my GF and my friend. (My friend is lesbian btw and acts like a dude, so there's no sexual competition going on. My GF and I have talked about this). Anyway, here's where I effed up. We got back to my apartment around 7pm. My GF said she wanted to spend some alone time with me. But we had also as a group talked about getting dinner and going out clubbing. So my thinking was that since I see my GF once a weekend, and I haven't seen my friend in a month and a half, I'd rather continue on with the plan of going out.
So yeah, I heard what my GF wanted and I didn't act on it.
I was a little frustrated because my GF had been spending a lot of time with her mom, which I was cool with, but I was figuring "If she wanted to spend alone time with me, why didn't she make time yesterday?" I didn't want to make a scene, so I texted something along the lines of "Hey, I totally respect your relationship with your mom and think it's great that it's so strong. But I have a good relationship with my friend. I respect your time with her, why can't we spend time with my friend?" Also, she could have done work on Sunday at my apartment, but she left her laptop at her moms. So I lightly brought that up in the text as well - "I just wish you had brought your laptop, that way we could spend time tomorrow working together".
There were many moments where my friend must have sensed that something was up, because on retrospect she kept on asking if everything was okay, if we were tired, etc. I went to go take a shower, while my GF and my friend stayed in my room and had friendly smalltalk. When I came out, my GF told me with a straight face that it was okay, that we could go ahead with the plans with my friend.
So that's how I took it.
In RETROSPECT, it's so obvious the moments I could have avoided the problem. It's so obvious what I did wrong. She later told me (more on that a bit later) but I didn't need her to tell me. I knew upon retrospective reflection.
We all three went to a restaurant - my GF was a little quiet, but I thought she was tired and would just get a second wind (STUPID - I should never wait for her to get her energy back - I should ask if she's alright and offer an out, or even better just make the decision myself and tell my friend that we are tired and want to go our separate ways).
We then went to the club - we are all a bit tired at this point, but my friend and I were like "It's okay. The energy of the club will wake us up". We get there, and my GF isn't very animated. After a while, she has had enough and runs into the bathroom. Alarmed, I go after her (stand outside the restroom). She comes out, says she isn't feeling it, and cries into my hug. I tell her it's okay and that we are going to leave. We are all three quiet on the drive home.
My friend lives an hour away and it's pretty late. I say that it's okay for her to sleep on the couch. I take my dog out to pee, and when I get back, my GF is asleep with the covers over her head in my bed. I lay down and sleep. At this point, I think she's annoyed, but I haven't realized the fullness of my mistakes.
Next morning, I'm surprised that my friend is still there. Instead of telling her we want a morning alone, I say let's go get breakfast and then my friend can leave. And so it's about 1:30pm before my friend leaves.
Immediatly when my friend walks out the door, my GF turns, runs into my room, grabs her stuff, says "I've been holding in my screaming for so long", and runs down to her car. I go after her, ask to sit in the car with her, and it's at this point that I'm starting to realize the fullness of what I've done.
I hug her over and over, tell her I'm so sorry, listen to her, and tell her my understanding of what I've done wrong. I tell her that I understand how she felt ignored. How she felt like the third wheel. She says she feels like her trust in me has been betrayed. That she trusted that I would stand up for her but I repeatedly let her down.
I plead that I'm so so so sorry, that I understand what I've done wrong and that I'll never do it again. But it doesn't matter - my words are useless.
She drives off, and I remember the text I sent her. She has two phones, and I accidentally sent it to the one she doesn't usually check, so I call her and tell her the message I sent - I wanted to tell her and apologize in advance before she saw it on her own.
We usually talk every night. I'm freaking out with guilt - legit guilt - and I'm scared because I've never seen her mad like this before. I've never heard her say the things she has said before - words like betrayal, statements like "I can't trust you; you let me down".
So on Monday, I'm feeling depressed and scared. I give her a call after class and she's very flat. We don't talk all that long, but I acknowledge that it's going to take some time for her to recover. When I say bye, she says nothing in return and hangs up on me. At this point, I'm even more scared.
And so we come to yesterday, Tuesday. I wasn't planning on calling her - I was planning on giving her space - but she calls me that evening. She calmly explains things from her perspective, why she reacted the way she did, and explicitly states what I did wrong. They were all things that I had already realized myself and that I had been obsessively fixated on with guilt and a desire to go back in time and undo.
- She felt trapped. She felt like she couldn't leave because it would be super rude to my friend and cause a scene, and she couldn't count on me to intervene.
- She felt like her time was being wasted.
- She almost in a way felt emotionally abused. Neglected may have been a better word, but I know what she means.
- She felt like I didn't love her. That all the words I've said for the nearly past year all fell flat when it mattered. My actions undid my words.
- She felt like I was a stranger. She didn't recognize who I was - it was like I had changed.
- She felt out of place and that she couldn't contribute to some of the conversations my friend and I were having.
I quietly listened and didn't apologize that much, because I knew that my apologizes meant nothing. I mean, I did say I'm so sorry two times and that if I ever do something like this again, she should leave me and find someone who will treat her right. But by and large, I kept on repeating that my words don't mean anything right now - her trust is breached. Only time can prove my case of how sorry I am.
So here's where things are. She's going to give me a second chance. She said I could come over Saturday, but that she'd be working (I'm going to head on over, since time is the thing she values most and I want to give her my time).
When I get there, I want to both try to regain normalcy if she's willing for that to happen, but also ask her any other ways I've hurt her in the past and what I can do to start the process of regaining her trust.
I'm not going to call her between now and Saturday. I plan on texting her Friday to see when I can come over Saturday, but I don't think it's wise to talk over the phone until I see her face to face. Things aren't normal, and the only way they can start to be normal again is face to face interaction. She may call me, which is different... that's her call. But I'm not counting on it.
Now here's the thing. Before this huge mistake, I felt like I was being an amazing boyfriend. And her feedback never told me otherwise. I haven't been perfect, but I've taken this relationship very seriously and tried to do the correct thing every time.
Primarily, I feel disturbed for two reasons - the first of which is that the only excuse I have for how I acted is that I've had a couple of nights of all nighters (my brain is a little on the fritz) and that I'm insanely stressed out. So my judgement may be clouded. When I tell myself this, I feel like it's bullshit, that it doesn't excuse anything. But at the same time, I would never purposefully hurt her like I did. Never. I love her so much. I'm disturbed by what I did and my inability to explain it away with even the weakest of excuses. It scares me, because I never want to hurt her like this again.
Secondarily, I feel disturbed that one evening of not being on the ball undid all of the memories that we have shared, all of the times that I went and cleaned her house without being asked, all the times that I did this, that, etc. All the moments that I tried my best to be the best boyfriend ever. In one fell swoop, she can't trust me and doesn't know if I truly love her. I'm putting a bit of my blame and projection into this... she hasn't said that I've undone everything. I just feel like I have. I feel like I have to start at square one building this relationship back up, patching the hole I tore. And I'm gracious (I told her how gracious I was) to have the opportunity to do so (rather than the alternative of her ditching me).
And as a brief aside that I don't feel like I should bring up any time soon, there are times that she hasn't been the perfect girlfriend. She's been amazing - we are so compatible with each other in so many ways - but there are times where she's been moody and I've always been there to bring her back up. I get it, I've been moody too. But I feel like if I wanted to, there could be a number of minor things that I could pick out and complain about. Not that what I did was minor and not that she's complaining. But I just feel like the narrative that she's great and that I've been a monster and that I have to regain her trust (almost as if I cheated) isn't telling the whole story.
Overall, I feel sad. Sad that I let the most important person in my life down. Sad that she doesn't know how much I love her. Sad about all the progress that has been lost. Sad that I let myself down by not being what I think she deserves - the best boyfriend ever.
For those of you who have read all of my ramblings, do you have any comments? Advice? Perspectives? I don't have a therapist right now, but getting this out there has been helpful.
Your girlfriend is overreacting -- maybe because of stress, but overreacting all the same, particularly considering that she wasn't communicating her needs to you and was evidently expecting you to read her feelings and mind. This is by no means 'second chance' territory and I don't think her behaviour suggests this is a healthy relationship.
posted by halation at 6:22 PM on April 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by halation at 6:22 PM on April 4, 2018 [14 favorites]
Best answer: I think the main problem isn’t letting the girlfriend down by not giving alone time - it’s that it sounds like you kind of made unilateral plans for both of you. The girlfriend also had to come along to the dinner and the clubbing, and then you invited your friend to sleep over at the place that your girlfriend essentially cohabitates in on weekends without asking her, and not giving her the boot in the morning. It sounds like she did communicate her need for “alone time”, meaning “not the friend”, and you ignored it and proceeded full speed ahead on your plans without getting her consent first.
Which may make her feel like you’re always going to steamroll her wishes and feelings.
posted by corb at 6:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
Which may make her feel like you’re always going to steamroll her wishes and feelings.
posted by corb at 6:24 PM on April 4, 2018 [15 favorites]
I get that your girlfriend was tired, but sometimes life doesn't go the way we want to (even when we're tired) and it seems to me that her demands on you were unreasonable. So, you didn't focus 100% of your attention on her for a day-and-a-half? Big deal. You are allowed to have friends. You are allowed to have interests apart from her. You are allowed to feel differently about things than she does. To say that she felt 'emotionally abused' sounds to me like HER problem, more than yours (assuming my understanding of the story is accurate/complete).
Diagnosing people through the internet is generally not wise, but she sounds like she has an 'anxious/ambivalent' attachment style (read articles 1, 2 to see if they ring a bell). If this is her, it will be difficult for you to EVER give her enough attention/time/reassurance.
In any case, she is an adult and can use her words: if she didn't want to go out clubbing, she didn't have to go. She says she didn't want to cause a 'scene' but, in the end, that's what happened anyway. She needs to take some responsibility for how the situation unfolded. This isn't ALL on you, and you shouldn't believe that either.
posted by Halo in reverse at 6:25 PM on April 4, 2018 [27 favorites]
Diagnosing people through the internet is generally not wise, but she sounds like she has an 'anxious/ambivalent' attachment style (read articles 1, 2 to see if they ring a bell). If this is her, it will be difficult for you to EVER give her enough attention/time/reassurance.
In any case, she is an adult and can use her words: if she didn't want to go out clubbing, she didn't have to go. She says she didn't want to cause a 'scene' but, in the end, that's what happened anyway. She needs to take some responsibility for how the situation unfolded. This isn't ALL on you, and you shouldn't believe that either.
posted by Halo in reverse at 6:25 PM on April 4, 2018 [27 favorites]
This sounds like a lot of drama. From what you've written here, I don't think you acted badly at all, but your girlfriend seems to be the type that swallows a whole lot of (apparently building?) feelings and then explodes in an over-the-top moment of wailing. There are some people who are like this, and some who feed on that sort of drama, building a narrative, as you say, that they are perfect little martyrs and everyone else is a monster. It can turn into a co-dependent pattern if you're not careful. Please, be careful.
posted by basalganglia at 6:26 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by basalganglia at 6:26 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
- She almost in a way felt emotionally abused. Neglected may have been a better word, but I know what she means.
- She felt like I didn't love her. That all the words I've said for the nearly past year all fell flat when it mattered. My actions undid my words.
Whoah...those are some pretty extreme responses. Yes, you were really, really inconsiderate. Yes, you missed some obvious clues. Yes, you could have made different choices. But one bad night absolutely shouldn't undo a year's worth of love and kindness. That's just not how mature people respond to relationship difficulties.
But hey, it takes time and practice to learn how to handle challenges in relationships and how to communicate expectations and how to argue in a constructive way. It sounds like both of you need some work in this area.
posted by brookeb at 6:32 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
- She felt like I didn't love her. That all the words I've said for the nearly past year all fell flat when it mattered. My actions undid my words.
Whoah...those are some pretty extreme responses. Yes, you were really, really inconsiderate. Yes, you missed some obvious clues. Yes, you could have made different choices. But one bad night absolutely shouldn't undo a year's worth of love and kindness. That's just not how mature people respond to relationship difficulties.
But hey, it takes time and practice to learn how to handle challenges in relationships and how to communicate expectations and how to argue in a constructive way. It sounds like both of you need some work in this area.
posted by brookeb at 6:32 PM on April 4, 2018 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Edit: This is her in a nutshell.
She just gave me a quick call on her own accord and asked if I was okay, if she was too harsh on the phone yesterday. I was flabbergasted and told her (A) of course I'M okay, (B) I'm shocked that she would ask, and (C) how amazingly compassionate that even through the hurt, even under the shadow of what I've done, she's still thinking about my feelings. She told me that she's genuinely looking forward to seeing me this weekend and apologized for being so stressed.
I feel like I'm living in an upside-down world. I've never been so pleasantly taken aback.
posted by ggp88 at 6:35 PM on April 4, 2018
She just gave me a quick call on her own accord and asked if I was okay, if she was too harsh on the phone yesterday. I was flabbergasted and told her (A) of course I'M okay, (B) I'm shocked that she would ask, and (C) how amazingly compassionate that even through the hurt, even under the shadow of what I've done, she's still thinking about my feelings. She told me that she's genuinely looking forward to seeing me this weekend and apologized for being so stressed.
I feel like I'm living in an upside-down world. I've never been so pleasantly taken aback.
posted by ggp88 at 6:35 PM on April 4, 2018
This is an incredibly overblown response by both of you about something that could have been a 5 minute conversation, like "Hey babe, sorry that I moved ahead with the going out plan when you had expressed you wanted alone time. I was excited to see my friend and not thinking clearly! I didn't realize until later how much you needed to just be at home with me." "Thanks for seeing that babe, it did really make me upset and exhausted. Can we try to check in more clearly about what each of our wishes are for our time together?" "Yeah, let's do that. Love you babe." "Love you."
posted by fairlynearlyready at 6:50 PM on April 4, 2018 [47 favorites]
posted by fairlynearlyready at 6:50 PM on April 4, 2018 [47 favorites]
Response by poster: For all of those who are making her out to be the bad one, here's her background:
She may have an 'anxious/ambivalent' thing going on. She comes from an Indian background (the country India, not Native American) where she was never quite allowed her freedom. She grew up with learning difficulties (she's fixing to graduate with a Master's now, so she's a fighter), but it was always an unsaid thing that this was a problem for her mother. She's extremely close to her Mom, but... I don't know, it's complicated. Her parents had an arranged marriage and got divorced before she was old enough to remember.
She's had some rough patches of people taking advantage of her kindness over the years. She's had to speak up and grow thick skin. So maybe she's over reacting, sure. But she's still learning how to stand up for herself. Maybe she hasn't quite calibrated it yet.
Her past boyfriends have all treated her like they are the one she should follow - that she, a woman, should be subservient to them, the man.
I'm a little different. I don't think that way. I know what it's like, from experience, to have your kindness taken advantage of. I wholeheartedly celebrate that it's 2018, women have a voice, and that she has just as much power as me. I think the old school way is bullshit.
She told me that she had flashbacks to her old relationships. And that it scared her. I think that she puts a lot on me that I'm different. Sure, that's a lot of responsibility for me. But I take it as an honor. And I slipped up and reminded her of what she was running away from.
I'm not going to ditch her. She's not perfect. But neither am I.
posted by ggp88 at 6:53 PM on April 4, 2018
She may have an 'anxious/ambivalent' thing going on. She comes from an Indian background (the country India, not Native American) where she was never quite allowed her freedom. She grew up with learning difficulties (she's fixing to graduate with a Master's now, so she's a fighter), but it was always an unsaid thing that this was a problem for her mother. She's extremely close to her Mom, but... I don't know, it's complicated. Her parents had an arranged marriage and got divorced before she was old enough to remember.
She's had some rough patches of people taking advantage of her kindness over the years. She's had to speak up and grow thick skin. So maybe she's over reacting, sure. But she's still learning how to stand up for herself. Maybe she hasn't quite calibrated it yet.
Her past boyfriends have all treated her like they are the one she should follow - that she, a woman, should be subservient to them, the man.
I'm a little different. I don't think that way. I know what it's like, from experience, to have your kindness taken advantage of. I wholeheartedly celebrate that it's 2018, women have a voice, and that she has just as much power as me. I think the old school way is bullshit.
She told me that she had flashbacks to her old relationships. And that it scared her. I think that she puts a lot on me that I'm different. Sure, that's a lot of responsibility for me. But I take it as an honor. And I slipped up and reminded her of what she was running away from.
I'm not going to ditch her. She's not perfect. But neither am I.
posted by ggp88 at 6:53 PM on April 4, 2018
I'm not really sure what precisely is going on here but the language you're using just gives me one strong, clear reaction: this is not a healthy relationship.
Take care of yourself.
posted by sockermom at 6:53 PM on April 4, 2018 [59 favorites]
Take care of yourself.
posted by sockermom at 6:53 PM on April 4, 2018 [59 favorites]
amazingly compassionate that even through the hurt, even under the shadow of what I've done, she's still thinking about my feelings.
Seriously, what you did was not bad enough to justify this kind of melodrama. You were both a bit self-centered and didn’t communicate enough. That’s it. Learn from it and move past it.
posted by amro at 6:53 PM on April 4, 2018 [72 favorites]
Seriously, what you did was not bad enough to justify this kind of melodrama. You were both a bit self-centered and didn’t communicate enough. That’s it. Learn from it and move past it.
posted by amro at 6:53 PM on April 4, 2018 [72 favorites]
I don't know you guys or your relationship in real life, and maybe it's just the way you wrote this, but while you were inconsiderate, her reaction sounds WAY over the top. Honestly from an outside perspective, if I got that reaction I would be the one reconsidering the relationship.
But having read your followup, I also feel like maybe it's the way you respond, too? Like, what you wrote that you said to her, that you felt "flabbergasted" and "shocked" she would ask, and that she was "amazingly compassionate"...it all sounds a bit overwrought, too. It gives me the impression that this is just a feature in your relationship, really expressive declarations and dramatic takes.
I dunno, maybe I'm just getting old and crave calm, but reading it all gave me anxiety. Everyone should just be adult about it and have a calm, open discussion about expectations.
posted by sprezzy at 6:56 PM on April 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
But having read your followup, I also feel like maybe it's the way you respond, too? Like, what you wrote that you said to her, that you felt "flabbergasted" and "shocked" she would ask, and that she was "amazingly compassionate"...it all sounds a bit overwrought, too. It gives me the impression that this is just a feature in your relationship, really expressive declarations and dramatic takes.
I dunno, maybe I'm just getting old and crave calm, but reading it all gave me anxiety. Everyone should just be adult about it and have a calm, open discussion about expectations.
posted by sprezzy at 6:56 PM on April 4, 2018 [21 favorites]
Response by poster: I want to make this relationship work. If she did overreact, what can I do to communicate that to her? Do I say, "Hey, I think you overreacted, and so did I with my guilt"? That kind of turns the whole thing around and makes it sound like her fault.
posted by ggp88 at 6:56 PM on April 4, 2018
posted by ggp88 at 6:56 PM on April 4, 2018
I'm not really sure what precisely is going on here but the language you're using just gives me one strong, clear reaction: this is not a healthy relationship.
Take care of yourself.
posted by sockermom at 6:53 PM on April 4
Seconded. The language used here makes me think that there is a lack of security in this relationship, vs a healthy, stable relationship.
posted by sprezzy at 6:59 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Take care of yourself.
posted by sockermom at 6:53 PM on April 4
Seconded. The language used here makes me think that there is a lack of security in this relationship, vs a healthy, stable relationship.
posted by sprezzy at 6:59 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Drama aside, the options from the very start shouldn't have been "make a scene" or "hash it out over text, but not actually resolve anything". You do not need to be entertaining your guests 100% of the time, you should've had a brief private chat at some point early in the evening (this goes for both of you). "Honey can you help me with this thing in the other room" may sound silly and transparent but it's way less uncomfortable for your guest than what ultimately happened.
posted by acidic at 7:03 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by acidic at 7:03 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I have a two-types-of-people theory. In any interaction or decision, each person is investing some energy in pleasing themselves and some energy in pleasing others. One type of person is trying to please everyone equally, so they're giving 50% of their energy to their own needs and 50% to the other person's. Two of these people working together are likely to come to a fairly balanced decision.
The other type will devote 90% of their capacity to their own needs and 10% to the other person's. This doesn't make them a jerk, because they assume that the other person is doing the same thing, in which case half of the total energy is still spent on each party. But when one of each type gets together, 70% of the energy is one one person and 30% on the other, and the person being more giving gets screwed.
Your GF wasn't looking out for herself, and you weren't looking out for her either. Not in a horrible way--you're both overreacting, but honestly, I think you are especially--but she needs to work on making her own decision and not trying to please others so much.
But for everyone who's saying she's being irrational, I disagree. She told you what she needed, and at about six different decision points, you did the opposite thing. It sounds like she's socialized to be very polite to guests and she did not feel comfortable overruling you or bowing out. I would have been really mad and probably gotten in a fight, too (and cried at the club, when I pushed myself way beyond my energy and just couldn't go anymore). At least when I was younger; at this point in my life I would never have gone with you.
So yeah, her outburst makes sense to me, though her language was unnecessarily inflammatory. Her call to apologize seems like a very reasonable response. I think you go forward by encouraging her to speak up for herself and make her own choices, and by paying attention to her needs when she states them.
I'm sympathetic. When I was in my first relationship, I was never sure how to balance the wants and needs of my partner and my other friends. It's still tricky, but I've learned over time, and you will too.
posted by gideonfrog at 7:05 PM on April 4, 2018 [48 favorites]
The other type will devote 90% of their capacity to their own needs and 10% to the other person's. This doesn't make them a jerk, because they assume that the other person is doing the same thing, in which case half of the total energy is still spent on each party. But when one of each type gets together, 70% of the energy is one one person and 30% on the other, and the person being more giving gets screwed.
Your GF wasn't looking out for herself, and you weren't looking out for her either. Not in a horrible way--you're both overreacting, but honestly, I think you are especially--but she needs to work on making her own decision and not trying to please others so much.
But for everyone who's saying she's being irrational, I disagree. She told you what she needed, and at about six different decision points, you did the opposite thing. It sounds like she's socialized to be very polite to guests and she did not feel comfortable overruling you or bowing out. I would have been really mad and probably gotten in a fight, too (and cried at the club, when I pushed myself way beyond my energy and just couldn't go anymore). At least when I was younger; at this point in my life I would never have gone with you.
So yeah, her outburst makes sense to me, though her language was unnecessarily inflammatory. Her call to apologize seems like a very reasonable response. I think you go forward by encouraging her to speak up for herself and make her own choices, and by paying attention to her needs when she states them.
I'm sympathetic. When I was in my first relationship, I was never sure how to balance the wants and needs of my partner and my other friends. It's still tricky, but I've learned over time, and you will too.
posted by gideonfrog at 7:05 PM on April 4, 2018 [48 favorites]
Best answer: Here's what I think: You and she both meant well, but you both borked the planning and communication and both were, in different ways, upset and angry. It seems really normal that people who haven't had a lot of relationship experience would do this - you were kind of thoughtless but if you'd thought about it you would have acted differently, she was probably trying to be nice and polite the way women are taught to be nice and polite, and then it got overwhelming.
A thing to think about: women and AFAB people are often socialized to put their needs and wishes last and to signal what they want instead of clearly asking for it. Growing the trust in someone and the confidence in yourself to be able to use your words is hard work. I've been in your girlfriend's situation, where I felt like I was not allowed [by society] to say, "No, I'm too tired for the club, what about dinner and then calling it a night" or "breakfast is cool, but can we be done by 11" or whatever and so I toughed it out feeling worse and angrier until I couldn't anymore.
If you and your girlfriend talk about this fight more, maybe reassure her that you will listen better in the future and say that you totally support her in telling you what she's feeling.
If you were both experienced in relationships and were, like, 35, I would think "this isn't a great relationship"...but you're both still in school and a lot of this is new to you. Treat this as a learning experience.
I think "overreacted" is the wrong frame here - this isn't about figuring out who is right and who is wrong, it's about learning to communicate better next time. You both care about each other, you both need to work to communicate and overcome your inexperience and/or fears. That's normal.
If this were me, I'd probably just talk to my partner about what we can both do to communicate honestly in the moment, and talk about how you're both there for each other so it's okay to say, "I know this is your friend, but I am too tired and stressed for the club". It can be hard and scary to say that, even though it's a reasonable thing to say.
posted by Frowner at 7:06 PM on April 4, 2018 [19 favorites]
A thing to think about: women and AFAB people are often socialized to put their needs and wishes last and to signal what they want instead of clearly asking for it. Growing the trust in someone and the confidence in yourself to be able to use your words is hard work. I've been in your girlfriend's situation, where I felt like I was not allowed [by society] to say, "No, I'm too tired for the club, what about dinner and then calling it a night" or "breakfast is cool, but can we be done by 11" or whatever and so I toughed it out feeling worse and angrier until I couldn't anymore.
If you and your girlfriend talk about this fight more, maybe reassure her that you will listen better in the future and say that you totally support her in telling you what she's feeling.
If you were both experienced in relationships and were, like, 35, I would think "this isn't a great relationship"...but you're both still in school and a lot of this is new to you. Treat this as a learning experience.
I think "overreacted" is the wrong frame here - this isn't about figuring out who is right and who is wrong, it's about learning to communicate better next time. You both care about each other, you both need to work to communicate and overcome your inexperience and/or fears. That's normal.
If this were me, I'd probably just talk to my partner about what we can both do to communicate honestly in the moment, and talk about how you're both there for each other so it's okay to say, "I know this is your friend, but I am too tired and stressed for the club". It can be hard and scary to say that, even though it's a reasonable thing to say.
posted by Frowner at 7:06 PM on April 4, 2018 [19 favorites]
Best answer: I want to make this relationship work. If she did overreact, what can I do to communicate that to her? Do I say, "Hey, I think you overreacted, and so did I with my guilt"? That kind of turns the whole thing around and makes it sound like her fault.
posted by ggp88 at 6:56 PM on April 4 [+] [!]
If you're going to meet up with her and she sounds like she's in a better place to have a discussion, just express some of what you expressed here (but you don't have to go overboard with being overly apologetic). Just say that you're really sorry and realized how you were inconsiderate about her feelings, and reiterate that you don't want to make her feel that way. But also reinforce that you were scared by what you heard (frame it in terms of how you felt, not what she did) and that you want to make sure that this didn't completely undo the relationship up until this point, because you're committed to her and love her. You want a future with her but don't want to be consumed with anxiety about whether a misstep could derail the whole things. Frame it as working together to find a communication method that works toward the goal of a long, healthy future together.
posted by sprezzy at 7:07 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by ggp88 at 6:56 PM on April 4 [+] [!]
If you're going to meet up with her and she sounds like she's in a better place to have a discussion, just express some of what you expressed here (but you don't have to go overboard with being overly apologetic). Just say that you're really sorry and realized how you were inconsiderate about her feelings, and reiterate that you don't want to make her feel that way. But also reinforce that you were scared by what you heard (frame it in terms of how you felt, not what she did) and that you want to make sure that this didn't completely undo the relationship up until this point, because you're committed to her and love her. You want a future with her but don't want to be consumed with anxiety about whether a misstep could derail the whole things. Frame it as working together to find a communication method that works toward the goal of a long, healthy future together.
posted by sprezzy at 7:07 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Hey, ggp88, AskMe isn’t really for back-and-forth discussion. You’ve laid out the situation - please just let people answer, and take in whatever’s useful to you.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 7:18 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 7:18 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Bring up times you've supported her in the past as evidence that it's okay for her to be more direct in communicating. And maybe you can talk together about how to handle situations like this in the future. Examples: she didn't have to go to dinner, or the club, or breakfast. She could have talked you you when you came to bed. She could have spoken up earlier and said she'd need more down time than you were planning. You could make separate plans to see your friend.
posted by momus_window at 7:18 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by momus_window at 7:18 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm getting some red flags from your language here - not even sure if the girlfriend's reaction is overblown or not, since your own emotions seem to have heightened the situation. This is totally fair but also something to keep in mind.
Your gf is finishing up a masters and this is the last weekend you guys will have any down time for a while. Grad school is notoriously stressful, especially for things like medical degrees which require lots of residency or internship hours on top of coursework. In spite of this she managed to voice her wishes up front, have a nice day out as planned at the river, be polite about dinner (first push of the boundaries), about the club (going to the bathroom and being weepy when you aren't feeling well isn't making a scene .. and especially not in a club - strike 2), about the friend sleeping over (third strike), about breakfast (4th), and then not kicking her out afterwards (5th). At this point she expresses her feelings and also leaves as she had previously indicated she would be doing anyways - you follow her to her car to talk? Then multiple phone calls to discuss? I'd call following her to the car as a sixth boundary push - she seems like she was trying to deescalate the situation while upset and needed some space.
Also wondering about her leaving the laptop at moms. I would assume she chose to do this intentionally and suspect "working together" indicates you could be you bugging her the entire time (from past experience some people are impossible to spend even five minutes trying to do something due to the constant interruptions, and I am not speaking of small children) or that she feels working independently on separate tasks doesn't constitute spending time together.
In any event think at least one of you is blowing things waaay out of proportion - and not sure that flowery and overly apologetic explanations and promises is a good way to fix things. Don't promise the moon when you can't abide by a simple request for some down time by overstepping boundaries several times.
posted by love2potato at 7:29 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Your gf is finishing up a masters and this is the last weekend you guys will have any down time for a while. Grad school is notoriously stressful, especially for things like medical degrees which require lots of residency or internship hours on top of coursework. In spite of this she managed to voice her wishes up front, have a nice day out as planned at the river, be polite about dinner (first push of the boundaries), about the club (going to the bathroom and being weepy when you aren't feeling well isn't making a scene .. and especially not in a club - strike 2), about the friend sleeping over (third strike), about breakfast (4th), and then not kicking her out afterwards (5th). At this point she expresses her feelings and also leaves as she had previously indicated she would be doing anyways - you follow her to her car to talk? Then multiple phone calls to discuss? I'd call following her to the car as a sixth boundary push - she seems like she was trying to deescalate the situation while upset and needed some space.
Also wondering about her leaving the laptop at moms. I would assume she chose to do this intentionally and suspect "working together" indicates you could be you bugging her the entire time (from past experience some people are impossible to spend even five minutes trying to do something due to the constant interruptions, and I am not speaking of small children) or that she feels working independently on separate tasks doesn't constitute spending time together.
In any event think at least one of you is blowing things waaay out of proportion - and not sure that flowery and overly apologetic explanations and promises is a good way to fix things. Don't promise the moon when you can't abide by a simple request for some down time by overstepping boundaries several times.
posted by love2potato at 7:29 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I'm surprised by the number of people saying she should have just left if she wanted, or that you didn't act poorly at all, that she doesn't have anything to be upset about. This is a situation that, if my partner weren't so good at communicating and checking in with me, I could definitely see happening in my relationship. I'm a busy grad student, and I don't get a lot of down time, or a lot of time with my partner, so when I get a break I really want to be able to 1) relax, and 2) spend time with my partner. If I was planning for down time on the weekend with my partner, and my partner went ahead and planned something with a friend, and then further, when I expressed that I didn't want to, started questioning why and saying "well why didn't you spend time with me at x time" (maybe I was too tired, had to work on something else, had different emotional needs then, whatever), I would be upset. But I would also want to respect my partner's socioemotional needs, and understand they haven't seen this friend in a while, and since they are expressing that it is more important to them to spend time with this friend, I would probably go alone with it. As a woman, I'm socialized to consider other people's needs and wants, and I might think that even though this isn't ideal for me, it's something I'm willing to do for my partner. I'm not going to enjoy it, but I would do it for their sake.
At this point I would feel kind of brushed aside but not really stressed out or angry. What would really get me, though, is if my partner afterward invited this person over to our house--my personal space--without asking me, and then further let them stay well into the next day, which was supposed to be my resting time, which I can't get if there are other people in my space, because I (like my partner!) am someone with a very low social battery. I would be feeling pretty damn upset at this point, yeah. Not because I need my partner to spend every moment with me, but because I'm stressed out and tired and didn't get a chance to recharge, and am being asked to expend a lot more social and emotional energy than I expected. And sure, I could have just not gone to the club--but maybe it would've been worse for my mental/emotional health to be home all alone than to be at the club with my partner. Then, once we get home, I can't even have my space to recharge, because the friend is there. That would be really, really draining on me, and I can definitely imagine getting pretty upset over it. And it's something that, in the moment, I would have a hard time expressing because I'm tired and trying to follow social conventions and just don't have the emotional energy to explain to my partner what the problem is, ESPECIALLY if they've already questioned me when I say there is a problem. So I can definitely imagine myself bottling it all up until the friend is gone, and then letting it out when the friend leaves.
BUT. BUT BUT BUT. Once I expressed that, my partner would have responded similar to you--expressing their apology, showing understanding of what they did wrong, promising to try and do better in the future. And I would have also shown understanding of how I contributed to the problem--I should probably have told them a lot sooner that I didn't want to do this. They would then reassure me that it's totally okay for me to tell them stuff like that at any point, while acknowledging that it's hard for me to do that, and we would both promise to try and get better at this whole communication thing (we've had very similar conversations before, so I can in fact tell you this is exactly how it would go). And then it would be over! It would not be a relationship-ruining, perspective-changing event. I would not think my partner has totally changed into an unrecognizable person, I would not think that I can't trust them--they have SHOWN me that I can trust them, by acknowledging the problem and showing a real desire to do better. So I do agree that she overreacted. Her feelings are totally valid, and her actions during the event, while not necessarily the most healthy/productive response, are totally understandable. But I don't think it's reasonable of her to continue to respond that way after you've had that conversation and you've shown your willingness and motivation to fix it. Some lingering distress, sure, but what you've described seems too much to me.
That said... it's also really hard for me to tell how much of this her actual response, and how much is you projecting your own guilt. Because that's something my partner does sometimes; they have trouble disentangling their guilt from my response. This is especially true when I'm tired; they interpret my 'tired' signals as 'angry' signals (which is why it is common and acceptable for them to ask "are you mad at me?" when my tone is flat, so I can say "nope, just tired and can't inflect right now, love you though"). I think your guilt over this is understandable, especially if you have anxiety because this is your first serious relationship and you don't want to mess it up, but it is way more guilt than you should have in this situation, and that is exacerbating things for both of you. You both seem to have interpreted this event in a very extreme way that's not healthy.
I think the reason you both took this so hard is because, as you said, it's your first tough moment. If you both haven't dealt with that before, then of course you're going to freak out and think it's the end because you've never had this happen in your relationship before. In your minds, it marks a sudden and unexpected change that you don't know how to deal with. That's okay! That's understandable! I want to tell you, from someone who's been in a relationship for seven years, is that you can have problems like this and it will be okay. You will hurt each other sometimes, because you're not thinking or you're tired or whatever reason--people make mistakes, all the time. It's okay. It doesn't mean the relationship is ruined, or that the other person is now someone completely different.
I think your next step is for both of you to focus on understanding that mistakes don't define your relationship--it's your response to those mistakes that does. How do you address it, how do you keep it from happening again, how do you incorporate it into your understanding of each other so you don't make similar mistakes later? And do you do so in a way that's collaborative, two people looking to solve a problem rather than assign blame (in either direction. It's just as harmful for you to totally take the blame on yourself and act like you've ruined everything--that's not healthy or helpful to anyone)? You both sound like you could benefit from some emotion regulation skills; if you do seek therapy, that would be a goal to work on. In general, though, just remember that this was scary because it was the first time one of you messed up in a way that really hurt the other--but that doesn't mean you've ruined anything, and if you're both open and honest and understanding with each other, it will get bettery.
I'm kinda tired so this whole post is kind of rambly and not super clear, but I hope it was of some use to you. Feel free to Memail me for clarification or questions. I think you have really good intentions (much better than many men I've seen!) in wanting to address this issue, and I think you're on the right track in terms of communicating and understanding problems--it's just the extremeness and emotional regulation that's getting in your way.
On preview, to your update: something you could express to your GF is that it would be productive for her to try and understand why you did what you did--NOT because she shouldn't be upset, but because it will help her keep from blowing things out of proportion and turning you into this scary character you're not. This is how my partner and I approach issues like this: we both try and to understand, okay, you did this for a b c reasons, and you had x y z feelings. I responded this way for a b c reasons, and had x y z feelings. Both of our feelings and reasons were valid, but our actions were incompatible. It doesn't mean either of us is mean or selfish or untrustworthy or horrible, just that we were in a bad situation. Next time, we'll think about how we can modify the situation so that this doesn't happen. Not assign blame for who did what wrong--just see what each of us can do to keep this from happening again.
posted by brook horse at 7:51 PM on April 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
At this point I would feel kind of brushed aside but not really stressed out or angry. What would really get me, though, is if my partner afterward invited this person over to our house--my personal space--without asking me, and then further let them stay well into the next day, which was supposed to be my resting time, which I can't get if there are other people in my space, because I (like my partner!) am someone with a very low social battery. I would be feeling pretty damn upset at this point, yeah. Not because I need my partner to spend every moment with me, but because I'm stressed out and tired and didn't get a chance to recharge, and am being asked to expend a lot more social and emotional energy than I expected. And sure, I could have just not gone to the club--but maybe it would've been worse for my mental/emotional health to be home all alone than to be at the club with my partner. Then, once we get home, I can't even have my space to recharge, because the friend is there. That would be really, really draining on me, and I can definitely imagine getting pretty upset over it. And it's something that, in the moment, I would have a hard time expressing because I'm tired and trying to follow social conventions and just don't have the emotional energy to explain to my partner what the problem is, ESPECIALLY if they've already questioned me when I say there is a problem. So I can definitely imagine myself bottling it all up until the friend is gone, and then letting it out when the friend leaves.
BUT. BUT BUT BUT. Once I expressed that, my partner would have responded similar to you--expressing their apology, showing understanding of what they did wrong, promising to try and do better in the future. And I would have also shown understanding of how I contributed to the problem--I should probably have told them a lot sooner that I didn't want to do this. They would then reassure me that it's totally okay for me to tell them stuff like that at any point, while acknowledging that it's hard for me to do that, and we would both promise to try and get better at this whole communication thing (we've had very similar conversations before, so I can in fact tell you this is exactly how it would go). And then it would be over! It would not be a relationship-ruining, perspective-changing event. I would not think my partner has totally changed into an unrecognizable person, I would not think that I can't trust them--they have SHOWN me that I can trust them, by acknowledging the problem and showing a real desire to do better. So I do agree that she overreacted. Her feelings are totally valid, and her actions during the event, while not necessarily the most healthy/productive response, are totally understandable. But I don't think it's reasonable of her to continue to respond that way after you've had that conversation and you've shown your willingness and motivation to fix it. Some lingering distress, sure, but what you've described seems too much to me.
That said... it's also really hard for me to tell how much of this her actual response, and how much is you projecting your own guilt. Because that's something my partner does sometimes; they have trouble disentangling their guilt from my response. This is especially true when I'm tired; they interpret my 'tired' signals as 'angry' signals (which is why it is common and acceptable for them to ask "are you mad at me?" when my tone is flat, so I can say "nope, just tired and can't inflect right now, love you though"). I think your guilt over this is understandable, especially if you have anxiety because this is your first serious relationship and you don't want to mess it up, but it is way more guilt than you should have in this situation, and that is exacerbating things for both of you. You both seem to have interpreted this event in a very extreme way that's not healthy.
I think the reason you both took this so hard is because, as you said, it's your first tough moment. If you both haven't dealt with that before, then of course you're going to freak out and think it's the end because you've never had this happen in your relationship before. In your minds, it marks a sudden and unexpected change that you don't know how to deal with. That's okay! That's understandable! I want to tell you, from someone who's been in a relationship for seven years, is that you can have problems like this and it will be okay. You will hurt each other sometimes, because you're not thinking or you're tired or whatever reason--people make mistakes, all the time. It's okay. It doesn't mean the relationship is ruined, or that the other person is now someone completely different.
I think your next step is for both of you to focus on understanding that mistakes don't define your relationship--it's your response to those mistakes that does. How do you address it, how do you keep it from happening again, how do you incorporate it into your understanding of each other so you don't make similar mistakes later? And do you do so in a way that's collaborative, two people looking to solve a problem rather than assign blame (in either direction. It's just as harmful for you to totally take the blame on yourself and act like you've ruined everything--that's not healthy or helpful to anyone)? You both sound like you could benefit from some emotion regulation skills; if you do seek therapy, that would be a goal to work on. In general, though, just remember that this was scary because it was the first time one of you messed up in a way that really hurt the other--but that doesn't mean you've ruined anything, and if you're both open and honest and understanding with each other, it will get bettery.
I'm kinda tired so this whole post is kind of rambly and not super clear, but I hope it was of some use to you. Feel free to Memail me for clarification or questions. I think you have really good intentions (much better than many men I've seen!) in wanting to address this issue, and I think you're on the right track in terms of communicating and understanding problems--it's just the extremeness and emotional regulation that's getting in your way.
On preview, to your update: something you could express to your GF is that it would be productive for her to try and understand why you did what you did--NOT because she shouldn't be upset, but because it will help her keep from blowing things out of proportion and turning you into this scary character you're not. This is how my partner and I approach issues like this: we both try and to understand, okay, you did this for a b c reasons, and you had x y z feelings. I responded this way for a b c reasons, and had x y z feelings. Both of our feelings and reasons were valid, but our actions were incompatible. It doesn't mean either of us is mean or selfish or untrustworthy or horrible, just that we were in a bad situation. Next time, we'll think about how we can modify the situation so that this doesn't happen. Not assign blame for who did what wrong--just see what each of us can do to keep this from happening again.
posted by brook horse at 7:51 PM on April 4, 2018 [10 favorites]
Best answer: Boundaries: You need them. She needs them. She needs to get to a point where she feels comfortable enough saying clearly what she wants and how she feels, laying down those boundaries, even if that has to happen off to the side somewhere at some point, and even if she doesn't want to let people down socially. But this may require some navigation and compromise on both your parts because there are cultural issues.
You both need to work together to develop 1. trust in each other and the relationship and 2. some shared signals or common language or understanding of cues or whatever needs to happen to be on the same page in difficult situations where you may not have shared norms to fall back on. The situations only get more difficult and higher-stakes the older you get, the longer you're together, and the more serious you are about each other, so it's good to get this settled now. Take this as a wake-up call to figure some things out together. You need to come first for each other—what that means for you is that you need to work on how you can be mindful of and present with her enough to recognize the emotional labor she's doing on your behalf and when it's too much. She needs to work on acquiescing to fewer things that are just going to make her feel angry and put-upon later. You both need to use words more to describe how you're feeling and what you want, even if one or both of you are kind of "guess culture" or more about implicit signaling than outright stating needs.
In particular, you need to work on setting boundaries around something that's common in college but that doesn't really work for people with adult obligations: the endless hangout. Not having seen a friend in a couple months doesn't mean they should spend every waking minute with you and your girlfriend, who you also don't see all the time, for the better part of 24 hours. This is not at all comparable to time spent with family members—though the similarity is that boundaries should be drawn with family as well. But friend time is different and has different norms than family time, I'd say. Some of your assumptions here are reminding me a bit of the geek social fallacies, which you might do well to read over.
But yeah... I remember after college when friends wanted every night out together to basically mean at least 8 or 9 solid hours of hangout time, including a restaurant visit, maybe a visit to another location such as the club you went to, then continued hangout time at home, sleeping on couches if it got too late or people got too drunk, etc.—and then doing this again more than once in a given week. I had to draw boundaries on all of that at some point, because we didn't live in dorms anymore, my significant other was a lot older and wasn't into that, it was expensive and I didn't have the money, and also I'm an introvert and that's real. I also remember getting very upset when friends with different ideas about the endless hangout thing basically kidnapped me, under the premise of my agreeing to a surprise, and took me to another town 2 hours away. They had hoped to stay the night at friends' barely furnished college-town rental house, and that I would agree to doing so as well. I made them drive me back and basically never hung out with them again after that.
It's a little different when I've made deliberate plans to visit some friends out of town and I'm staying with them, because that's specifically the purpose of the visit and we find ways to get alone time or "alone together" time where we're all in the same room maybe but chilling out on separate laptops or phones or quietly watching a movie or listening to music. So it's a little weird that this friend stayed over if they live in your town but you just hadn't seen them in a while—they probably should've gone home, but maybe they were also too polite to say outright that they needed their own space. Basically, if the premise is that someone is staying over, 1. everyone has to be on the same page about that, and 2. alone time or "alone together" time has to happen.
This also reminds me of camp, which can be very intense for a lot of people, not least of all because you're there together in this third space, with nowhere to go by yourself (and indeed often requirements to have a buddy anywhere you might go). One hard rule for everyone at the camps I went to, counselors and campers alike, was that people are required to take "me time" every afternoon—chill out in the bunk, write letters, read a book, generally do self-care—because people start to flip out a little bit, regardless of whether they're introverted or extroverted, if they don't get that time to themselves. You are not running a camp, and I would strongly suggest setting clear boundaries with friends in the future. From how your friend responded, it seems like they would appreciate the boundaries as much as your girlfriend would. And you'll get benefits from it yourself.
One other thing: You're doing a lot of narrating about the relationship and what things mean, and some of it feels a bit dramatic and romanticized ("I'm not going to ditch her. She's not perfect. But neither am I.") I tend toward this, too, but with the perspective of a few years on you and a lot more relationship experience, I'd suggest keeping your grand unified theories of what your relationship means and what this big event in your relationship means in perspective. Work on seeing things for what they are, not what they could be and how they're part of the big narrative of how you're meant for each other or whatever the case may be. If you both feel that way, it's good that you do, because having a shared narrative together is important. But make sure it's shared—and that you're being realistic and pragmatic and consulting expert advice (books, research, professionals as needed), not relying on fate and "what your heart tells you." Even in relationships that feel fated and effortless at first, deliberate, intentional effort is often required at various points along the way to keep them feeling that way.
posted by limeonaire at 8:34 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
You both need to work together to develop 1. trust in each other and the relationship and 2. some shared signals or common language or understanding of cues or whatever needs to happen to be on the same page in difficult situations where you may not have shared norms to fall back on. The situations only get more difficult and higher-stakes the older you get, the longer you're together, and the more serious you are about each other, so it's good to get this settled now. Take this as a wake-up call to figure some things out together. You need to come first for each other—what that means for you is that you need to work on how you can be mindful of and present with her enough to recognize the emotional labor she's doing on your behalf and when it's too much. She needs to work on acquiescing to fewer things that are just going to make her feel angry and put-upon later. You both need to use words more to describe how you're feeling and what you want, even if one or both of you are kind of "guess culture" or more about implicit signaling than outright stating needs.
In particular, you need to work on setting boundaries around something that's common in college but that doesn't really work for people with adult obligations: the endless hangout. Not having seen a friend in a couple months doesn't mean they should spend every waking minute with you and your girlfriend, who you also don't see all the time, for the better part of 24 hours. This is not at all comparable to time spent with family members—though the similarity is that boundaries should be drawn with family as well. But friend time is different and has different norms than family time, I'd say. Some of your assumptions here are reminding me a bit of the geek social fallacies, which you might do well to read over.
But yeah... I remember after college when friends wanted every night out together to basically mean at least 8 or 9 solid hours of hangout time, including a restaurant visit, maybe a visit to another location such as the club you went to, then continued hangout time at home, sleeping on couches if it got too late or people got too drunk, etc.—and then doing this again more than once in a given week. I had to draw boundaries on all of that at some point, because we didn't live in dorms anymore, my significant other was a lot older and wasn't into that, it was expensive and I didn't have the money, and also I'm an introvert and that's real. I also remember getting very upset when friends with different ideas about the endless hangout thing basically kidnapped me, under the premise of my agreeing to a surprise, and took me to another town 2 hours away. They had hoped to stay the night at friends' barely furnished college-town rental house, and that I would agree to doing so as well. I made them drive me back and basically never hung out with them again after that.
It's a little different when I've made deliberate plans to visit some friends out of town and I'm staying with them, because that's specifically the purpose of the visit and we find ways to get alone time or "alone together" time where we're all in the same room maybe but chilling out on separate laptops or phones or quietly watching a movie or listening to music. So it's a little weird that this friend stayed over if they live in your town but you just hadn't seen them in a while—they probably should've gone home, but maybe they were also too polite to say outright that they needed their own space. Basically, if the premise is that someone is staying over, 1. everyone has to be on the same page about that, and 2. alone time or "alone together" time has to happen.
This also reminds me of camp, which can be very intense for a lot of people, not least of all because you're there together in this third space, with nowhere to go by yourself (and indeed often requirements to have a buddy anywhere you might go). One hard rule for everyone at the camps I went to, counselors and campers alike, was that people are required to take "me time" every afternoon—chill out in the bunk, write letters, read a book, generally do self-care—because people start to flip out a little bit, regardless of whether they're introverted or extroverted, if they don't get that time to themselves. You are not running a camp, and I would strongly suggest setting clear boundaries with friends in the future. From how your friend responded, it seems like they would appreciate the boundaries as much as your girlfriend would. And you'll get benefits from it yourself.
One other thing: You're doing a lot of narrating about the relationship and what things mean, and some of it feels a bit dramatic and romanticized ("I'm not going to ditch her. She's not perfect. But neither am I.") I tend toward this, too, but with the perspective of a few years on you and a lot more relationship experience, I'd suggest keeping your grand unified theories of what your relationship means and what this big event in your relationship means in perspective. Work on seeing things for what they are, not what they could be and how they're part of the big narrative of how you're meant for each other or whatever the case may be. If you both feel that way, it's good that you do, because having a shared narrative together is important. But make sure it's shared—and that you're being realistic and pragmatic and consulting expert advice (books, research, professionals as needed), not relying on fate and "what your heart tells you." Even in relationships that feel fated and effortless at first, deliberate, intentional effort is often required at various points along the way to keep them feeling that way.
posted by limeonaire at 8:34 PM on April 4, 2018 [11 favorites]
Also getting huge red flags based on your language here. People always read our own experiences into everything, of course, but “she’s amazing and I fucked up so bad and betrayed her incredibly delicate feelings and now I must grovel for her forgiveness” is pretty much exactly what I said when my ex was holding me emotionally hostage, playing the martyr and abusing me. YMMV, and I hope it does. My advice—your internal barometer is off and you need to readjust to what’s healthy. Does this fight/relationship feel weird to you? Does something feel off about your dynamic? Investigate that. Why do you feel so guilty about doing a normal thing (hanging out with a friend you don’t see often)? Ask others you know for a perspective. How do I act around her? Have I changed?
posted by lieber hair at 8:59 PM on April 4, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by lieber hair at 8:59 PM on April 4, 2018 [19 favorites]
Wow. So much drama from her and grovelling, bowing and scraping from you. At any point in the night, your girlfriend could have used her words and actually told you she wasn't up for a big evening out instead of going along with it. Then she's blown up at you and convinced you that you're abusive and don't love her? WTF? If all it takes is not being a mind reader, then I guess we all are.
I get that you don't have much relationship experience but you need to be careful here because often your first relationship sets the tone for future ones and what you view as normal, and this isn't normal.
You both need to learn to talk to each other and work out issues without one of you having to fall on your sword while the other convinces them that they're the worst person on the planet. It will get old fast. Heck. She's not even my girlfriend and I already want to leave her.
posted by Jubey at 9:18 PM on April 4, 2018 [22 favorites]
I get that you don't have much relationship experience but you need to be careful here because often your first relationship sets the tone for future ones and what you view as normal, and this isn't normal.
You both need to learn to talk to each other and work out issues without one of you having to fall on your sword while the other convinces them that they're the worst person on the planet. It will get old fast. Heck. She's not even my girlfriend and I already want to leave her.
posted by Jubey at 9:18 PM on April 4, 2018 [22 favorites]
Wow.
You sound terrified of making mistakes and totally willing to accept her perception of you and your actions. When she (really dramatically!) brings up something you did that bothers her you immediately accept that you’re the villain in the situation and first, beat yourself up over it to an extreme and then second, apologize profusely to her for your horrible actions. You’re totally buying into her drama and punishing yourself because of it.
I’m definitely not saying that she can’t express her feelings but the balance here is totally off. I didn’t get any impression of you expressing your own feelings to her. I don’t mean the apologies you made for hurting her feelings, but your own feelings about your visiting friend, or your feelings about how you wanted to spend the weekend.
Yes you told GF that you wanted to spend time with her, but it was also important to you to spend time with your friend. This would have been a great time for you to set a boundary - something along the lines of “hey, friend is coming over to hang out. We’re planning to go out clubbing, you can come along if you want to or you’re welcome to hang out at my place. I’ll be home by 1 AM. Friend may need to crash here, and if so I’ll grab coffee with her in the morning before she leaves but I’ll make sure she’s on the road by 11 and we’ll have the rest of the day together.”
Obviously you don’t have to lay out all the rules beforehand but as things come up you both need to be able to communicate what’s acceptable. Maybe GF wants friend to leave by 10 AM. Maybe GF goes home and asks you to come to her house on Sunday. She needs to communicate that need to you explicitly.
Currently you’re shouldering 100% of the blame for all of the conflicts between you and her and that is just not healthy or sustainable.
posted by bendy at 12:40 AM on April 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
You sound terrified of making mistakes and totally willing to accept her perception of you and your actions. When she (really dramatically!) brings up something you did that bothers her you immediately accept that you’re the villain in the situation and first, beat yourself up over it to an extreme and then second, apologize profusely to her for your horrible actions. You’re totally buying into her drama and punishing yourself because of it.
I’m definitely not saying that she can’t express her feelings but the balance here is totally off. I didn’t get any impression of you expressing your own feelings to her. I don’t mean the apologies you made for hurting her feelings, but your own feelings about your visiting friend, or your feelings about how you wanted to spend the weekend.
Yes you told GF that you wanted to spend time with her, but it was also important to you to spend time with your friend. This would have been a great time for you to set a boundary - something along the lines of “hey, friend is coming over to hang out. We’re planning to go out clubbing, you can come along if you want to or you’re welcome to hang out at my place. I’ll be home by 1 AM. Friend may need to crash here, and if so I’ll grab coffee with her in the morning before she leaves but I’ll make sure she’s on the road by 11 and we’ll have the rest of the day together.”
Obviously you don’t have to lay out all the rules beforehand but as things come up you both need to be able to communicate what’s acceptable. Maybe GF wants friend to leave by 10 AM. Maybe GF goes home and asks you to come to her house on Sunday. She needs to communicate that need to you explicitly.
Currently you’re shouldering 100% of the blame for all of the conflicts between you and her and that is just not healthy or sustainable.
posted by bendy at 12:40 AM on April 5, 2018 [11 favorites]
Nthing the scary red flags that pop up when I read your words here. It's okay for her to be upset that she didn't get her alone time, it's okay for you to feel bad that you misread signals and didn't behave perfectly. But... dude. There's a whole lot about the way you've described your interactions that gives me serious pause. The "it's me and her against the world, nobody understands our love, and I am a bad bad bad man who deserves to feel awful because I wasn't perfect for my shining princess, of course she is furious with me, I deserve nothing but her ire forever and if she lowers herself to love me I will be the happiest man forever and ever" thing... dude. It's okay for you to have friends that aren't your girlfriend, and for you to spend time around those friends. There are plenty of women on this planet who will not make you grovel at their feet for days and days because you made a very minor mistake. And it's really okay for you to let go of the idea that you have to be perfect in order to "deserve" her. What does she have to do to deserve you, my dude? What does she bring to the table that makes it worthwhile for you to walk around considering yourself basically the worst person ever for wanting to hang out with your friend? Are the feelings of love you get from her when you behave in ways she approves of worth the way she treats you when you're less than perfect?
Take her off the pedestal, for starters.
posted by palomar at 7:14 AM on April 5, 2018 [12 favorites]
Take her off the pedestal, for starters.
posted by palomar at 7:14 AM on April 5, 2018 [12 favorites]
I think both of y'all were way overtired and that's how things got out of control in the moment, but this dramatic performance on both sides does not feel like a one-off from exhaustion (which happens, and usually afterwards both parties are like okay that was a terrible thing, and then everyone moves on and doesn't write extensively and dramatically about it for advice - that part tells me you're spinning quite the elaborate narrative for yourself here).
But you are being introduced here to some problematic behavior and reactions in yourself that you should work on, not in a Perfect Boyfriend Forever way but in a Man Living In The Current World way. There's a break point on 24-hour party cycles with friends, there needs to be a give and take between doing only what you think is fun and what the people you're with can or should be doing with their time and energy, AND you need to be able to make mistakes and accept/process them like a grownup without either going into a panic deathspiral or being dragged across the coals by your partner.
(Also don't clean people's places without being asked. Literally nobody asked you to do that. It's Too Much. Especially don't do it and then cry about how you should get points. I recognize her reaction to this weekend party situation as a busy tired introvert and I guarantee she doesn't really want you up in her stuff as a "favor" and is having trouble telling you so, possibly because you'll freak out, which is absolutely a controlling type of behavior for this reason.)
Your future relationships are all going to be with grownups with a lot of stuff going on, maybe even stuff like gestating/birthing/statistically likely to be doing 70% of the actual parenting gruntwork/coparenting children with you, and if you're going to freak out every time there's a miscommunication, there's never going to be good solid communication. Accidents happen. You're going to make people mad sometimes. And yet, these incidents are rarely fatal for men, so you'd be better off directing your energy to learning how to do better when you mess up and gracefully moving on, and not staying with partners who want to flog you for it forever, and worrying less about being perfect and more about being responsive.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:29 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
But you are being introduced here to some problematic behavior and reactions in yourself that you should work on, not in a Perfect Boyfriend Forever way but in a Man Living In The Current World way. There's a break point on 24-hour party cycles with friends, there needs to be a give and take between doing only what you think is fun and what the people you're with can or should be doing with their time and energy, AND you need to be able to make mistakes and accept/process them like a grownup without either going into a panic deathspiral or being dragged across the coals by your partner.
(Also don't clean people's places without being asked. Literally nobody asked you to do that. It's Too Much. Especially don't do it and then cry about how you should get points. I recognize her reaction to this weekend party situation as a busy tired introvert and I guarantee she doesn't really want you up in her stuff as a "favor" and is having trouble telling you so, possibly because you'll freak out, which is absolutely a controlling type of behavior for this reason.)
Your future relationships are all going to be with grownups with a lot of stuff going on, maybe even stuff like gestating/birthing/statistically likely to be doing 70% of the actual parenting gruntwork/coparenting children with you, and if you're going to freak out every time there's a miscommunication, there's never going to be good solid communication. Accidents happen. You're going to make people mad sometimes. And yet, these incidents are rarely fatal for men, so you'd be better off directing your energy to learning how to do better when you mess up and gracefully moving on, and not staying with partners who want to flog you for it forever, and worrying less about being perfect and more about being responsive.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:29 AM on April 5, 2018 [2 favorites]
I want to make this relationship work.
taking all the responsibility on yourself to make it "work" by fr. ex. beating yourself up and offering apology after apology tends to have really harmful side effects such as causing your partner to lose all respect for you or building up a reserve of resentment within yourself that you may not even entirely realize is there until it just, like, erupts all over the place.
but that's some classic first relationship shit. it's the best thing ever and you don't want to let it go and you'll do anything to keep it going.
and of course, that tension and struggle of trying to keep a failing relationship alive is kind of addictive, isn't it? all the highs and lows, like in the phone call from her you referenced above where she was compassionate. hell of a rush of happy brain chemicals from that, right? the good lord loves codependents, He made so very many of them.
there's lots of ways to make a relationship "work," and one of them is to learn from mistakes that you'll never repeat again. good luck.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:09 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
taking all the responsibility on yourself to make it "work" by fr. ex. beating yourself up and offering apology after apology tends to have really harmful side effects such as causing your partner to lose all respect for you or building up a reserve of resentment within yourself that you may not even entirely realize is there until it just, like, erupts all over the place.
but that's some classic first relationship shit. it's the best thing ever and you don't want to let it go and you'll do anything to keep it going.
and of course, that tension and struggle of trying to keep a failing relationship alive is kind of addictive, isn't it? all the highs and lows, like in the phone call from her you referenced above where she was compassionate. hell of a rush of happy brain chemicals from that, right? the good lord loves codependents, He made so very many of them.
there's lots of ways to make a relationship "work," and one of them is to learn from mistakes that you'll never repeat again. good luck.
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:09 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
I just want to chime in and agree with all the others who have said that your gf is over reacting! This is an issue but it is a small one and it is difficult to see why she doesn't trust you now.
I think your girlfriend has to take some responsibility for regulating her extremely strong feelings instead of leaving that job to you.
posted by thereader at 1:25 PM on April 5, 2018
I think your girlfriend has to take some responsibility for regulating her extremely strong feelings instead of leaving that job to you.
posted by thereader at 1:25 PM on April 5, 2018
She's had some rough patches of people taking advantage of her kindness over the years. She's had to speak up and grow thick skin. So maybe she's over reacting, sure. But she's still learning how to stand up for herself. Maybe she hasn't quite calibrated it yet.
Her past boyfriends have all treated her like they are the one she should follow - that she, a woman, should be subservient to them, the man.
I'm a little different. I don't think that way. I know what it's like, from experience, to have your kindness taken advantage of. I wholeheartedly celebrate that it's 2018, women have a voice, and that she has just as much power as me. I think the old school way is bullshit.
So the thing is, that men making decisions for women without women speaking up and expressing their own needs is harmful even if the man is doing so because he wants to protect the woman rather than harm her.
Expecting you to read her mind, whether it's your expectation or hers, keeps her in a cycle of not expressing her own needs in explicit ways. It's not a healthy dynamic.
posted by lazuli at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2018
Her past boyfriends have all treated her like they are the one she should follow - that she, a woman, should be subservient to them, the man.
I'm a little different. I don't think that way. I know what it's like, from experience, to have your kindness taken advantage of. I wholeheartedly celebrate that it's 2018, women have a voice, and that she has just as much power as me. I think the old school way is bullshit.
So the thing is, that men making decisions for women without women speaking up and expressing their own needs is harmful even if the man is doing so because he wants to protect the woman rather than harm her.
Expecting you to read her mind, whether it's your expectation or hers, keeps her in a cycle of not expressing her own needs in explicit ways. It's not a healthy dynamic.
posted by lazuli at 1:34 PM on April 5, 2018
Sad that I let myself down by not being what I think she deserves - the best boyfriend ever.
Let go of this notion. If you are both human beings, it is untrue.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 1:35 PM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Let go of this notion. If you are both human beings, it is untrue.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 1:35 PM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
I just want to +1 on the notion that it was a rookie error for both of you. She's stressed. You're new at this. It was a mistake, and you clearly care about her feelings. Enough with the self-flagellation.
The best thing now is to let it air out. Forgive her for being overdramatic (you don't need to address it, we're all prone to it from time to time). Forgive yourself for being inconsiderate.
Plan something fun together for the future where you BOTH are involved in dreaming it up, and let this fade into a memory that will one day be chuckled over as your first fight.
posted by Dr_Janeway at 3:19 PM on April 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
The best thing now is to let it air out. Forgive her for being overdramatic (you don't need to address it, we're all prone to it from time to time). Forgive yourself for being inconsiderate.
Plan something fun together for the future where you BOTH are involved in dreaming it up, and let this fade into a memory that will one day be chuckled over as your first fight.
posted by Dr_Janeway at 3:19 PM on April 5, 2018 [5 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
You may have let her down, but that doesn't excuse her harsh response. I think an honest conversation between the two of you about relationship expectations is in order, if this is to continue being a healthy relationship.
posted by Amity at 6:19 PM on April 4, 2018 [39 favorites]