How can we prevent the deportation of some acquaintences?
February 4, 2006 5:18 AM Subscribe
Some friends arrived from overseas yesterday, but didn't clear customs and are being deported tomorrow. Do we have any rights or options in this situation?
My neighbor is from Israel and he wants to bring his brother, sister-in-law and infant nephew here on valid tourist visas. They brother has history of visiting here and leaving on time. This time, they planned to take some test to become registered nurses (this is what they do back there), which they hope would help get them working visas due to an apparent shortage of registered nurses here.
So, in short, they'd like to explore the possibility of staying here, but only legally. If they can't work legally, they'll return home and have had a nice visit with family here in the States.
Problem is, the flight arrived yesterday and customs agents put them through a random check and found a resume and letter of recommendation. Apparently this is enough to refuse entry into the country. Since there were no flights until Sunday, they let them go with my neighbors, but held onto all of their belongings (including passports) except two days worth of clothes.
The worst thing about all this is it happened late in the afternoon on Friday and they have to leave Sunday, so they can't call a lawyer for advice or anything.
The main questions they have seem to be:
1) What happens if they don't show up for the flight Sunday? Will the authorities come arrest them? Will my neighbors (he is a citizen, she has a green card, 3 kids are citizens) get in trouble for hosting them?
2) If they do overstay, will it be harder for them to obtain "legal" status or simply enter as tourists later on?
3) Is there anything that can be done legally to prevent or delay deportation? There was talk of getting a doctor to say they're too sick to leave right now as a stall tactic.
Any advice is appreciated, but please bear in mind the desire to do things legally. My neighbor is saying he's just going to keep them here for a while, but I think that will only make things more difficult in the end.
My neighbor is from Israel and he wants to bring his brother, sister-in-law and infant nephew here on valid tourist visas. They brother has history of visiting here and leaving on time. This time, they planned to take some test to become registered nurses (this is what they do back there), which they hope would help get them working visas due to an apparent shortage of registered nurses here.
So, in short, they'd like to explore the possibility of staying here, but only legally. If they can't work legally, they'll return home and have had a nice visit with family here in the States.
Problem is, the flight arrived yesterday and customs agents put them through a random check and found a resume and letter of recommendation. Apparently this is enough to refuse entry into the country. Since there were no flights until Sunday, they let them go with my neighbors, but held onto all of their belongings (including passports) except two days worth of clothes.
The worst thing about all this is it happened late in the afternoon on Friday and they have to leave Sunday, so they can't call a lawyer for advice or anything.
The main questions they have seem to be:
1) What happens if they don't show up for the flight Sunday? Will the authorities come arrest them? Will my neighbors (he is a citizen, she has a green card, 3 kids are citizens) get in trouble for hosting them?
2) If they do overstay, will it be harder for them to obtain "legal" status or simply enter as tourists later on?
3) Is there anything that can be done legally to prevent or delay deportation? There was talk of getting a doctor to say they're too sick to leave right now as a stall tactic.
Any advice is appreciated, but please bear in mind the desire to do things legally. My neighbor is saying he's just going to keep them here for a while, but I think that will only make things more difficult in the end.
Why did they bring the resume and such? That is an obvious red-flag that they were intending to overstay their visas (from a bureaucratic perspective).
I suggest that they do what they are told and just allow the deportation to continue - unless you can manage to get a lawyer in that time. Breaking any of the rules laid out for them might make it harder to even get visas next time.
Of course, the entire visa, residence and citizen process can be strange and unfair. I've known Europeans who have come over illegally, lived here for a decade, married a citizen, gotten caught, arrested and threatened with deportation then after a lot of court appearances and money spent on lawyers been granted resident status. I've also known Europeans with a lot of money be able to start a company here and thus be allowed to come over and become citizens with their entire family following them. Just because they have money and were potentially hiring Americans.
posted by melt away at 5:55 AM on February 4, 2006
I suggest that they do what they are told and just allow the deportation to continue - unless you can manage to get a lawyer in that time. Breaking any of the rules laid out for them might make it harder to even get visas next time.
Of course, the entire visa, residence and citizen process can be strange and unfair. I've known Europeans who have come over illegally, lived here for a decade, married a citizen, gotten caught, arrested and threatened with deportation then after a lot of court appearances and money spent on lawyers been granted resident status. I've also known Europeans with a lot of money be able to start a company here and thus be allowed to come over and become citizens with their entire family following them. Just because they have money and were potentially hiring Americans.
posted by melt away at 5:55 AM on February 4, 2006
Response by poster: Yeah, I think they called the Israeli consulate and left a message on their emergency line. There's some question over what they will do for them since they're arabs, and over what they could do even if they wanted...
I've been imploring my neighbor to send them home.
posted by b_thinky at 7:20 AM on February 4, 2006
I've been imploring my neighbor to send them home.
posted by b_thinky at 7:20 AM on February 4, 2006
Call the Israeli consulate and ask for advice. They won't help you, but you might as well call.
If they overstay, yes, a warrant will be issued for their arrest. Probably no one will come looking for them, except for perhaps one visit to the neighbor's house, but if any of them ever have any encounter with the police for the rest of their lives, they'll be locked up and then forcibly deported, and they'll never be permitted to enter the U.S. legally (including as tourists).
Harboring or assisting illegal aliens is a crime with serious penalties. Your neighbor's wife could be deported for participating in such a scheme. Your neighbor could spend a lengthy period in jail. These laws are enforced; there are two volunteers with Humane Borders on trial right now because they picked up several illegal immigrants in the Arizona desert and brought them for medical care.
posted by jellicle at 7:21 AM on February 4, 2006
If they overstay, yes, a warrant will be issued for their arrest. Probably no one will come looking for them, except for perhaps one visit to the neighbor's house, but if any of them ever have any encounter with the police for the rest of their lives, they'll be locked up and then forcibly deported, and they'll never be permitted to enter the U.S. legally (including as tourists).
Harboring or assisting illegal aliens is a crime with serious penalties. Your neighbor's wife could be deported for participating in such a scheme. Your neighbor could spend a lengthy period in jail. These laws are enforced; there are two volunteers with Humane Borders on trial right now because they picked up several illegal immigrants in the Arizona desert and brought them for medical care.
posted by jellicle at 7:21 AM on February 4, 2006
Giving up on lawyers just because it's a weekend might be premature. Immigration lawyers understand that these things happen even when it's not the work week. It might cost a little more, but you should be able to find someone that can help you out.
Failing that, I agree with everyone else: they should leave when they're supposed to. Screwing around with doctor's notes and that sort of thing will make the odds of long-term residency that much more remote.
posted by flipper at 7:21 AM on February 4, 2006
Failing that, I agree with everyone else: they should leave when they're supposed to. Screwing around with doctor's notes and that sort of thing will make the odds of long-term residency that much more remote.
posted by flipper at 7:21 AM on February 4, 2006
There are definitely immigration lawyers that work on the weekend. I'd start there, ASAP, if fighting this thing is a priority.
posted by fionab at 7:46 AM on February 4, 2006
posted by fionab at 7:46 AM on February 4, 2006
Problem is, the flight arrived yesterday and customs agents put them through a random check and found a resume and letter of recommendation. Apparently this is enough to refuse entry into the country.
That's probably the wrong way to think of it. A resume and recommendation are evidence that their intentions aren't just tourism, especially if your brother is a US citizen and so you could be easily sponsored for a green card. Having intentions that don't line up with your visa *is* enough to refuse entry.
1) What happens if they don't show up for the flight Sunday? Will the authorities come arrest them?
Maybe. Probably not immediately. But ICE are emphatically not nice people, so your neighbors or the wannabe nurses can expect a big, terrifying, gun-filled bust late one night.
2) If they do overstay, will it be harder for them to obtain "legal" status or simply enter as tourists later on?
An overstay triggers a ban on entry and will presumably make it harder to obtain entry even after the ban expires.
3) Is there anything that can be done legally to prevent or delay deportation? There was talk of getting a doctor to say they're too sick to leave right now as a stall tactic.
I wouldn't bother, and there's probably not much that can be done. Odds are that technically, they're not being deported, they're just being denied entry, and there's not much appeal from being denied entry.
Personally, I would chalk this up to experience. Rule #1 is, don't fuck with immigration. Their intentions weren't just tourism, and they entered on a tourist visa, which is fucking with immigration in a small way. There is no doubt a "right" way to go about doing what they wanted to do. Either a more appropriate visa, or a way to take the test in Israel, or whatever. They should look into that and keep their tourist visits all pleasure and no business.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:52 AM on February 4, 2006
That's probably the wrong way to think of it. A resume and recommendation are evidence that their intentions aren't just tourism, especially if your brother is a US citizen and so you could be easily sponsored for a green card. Having intentions that don't line up with your visa *is* enough to refuse entry.
1) What happens if they don't show up for the flight Sunday? Will the authorities come arrest them?
Maybe. Probably not immediately. But ICE are emphatically not nice people, so your neighbors or the wannabe nurses can expect a big, terrifying, gun-filled bust late one night.
2) If they do overstay, will it be harder for them to obtain "legal" status or simply enter as tourists later on?
An overstay triggers a ban on entry and will presumably make it harder to obtain entry even after the ban expires.
3) Is there anything that can be done legally to prevent or delay deportation? There was talk of getting a doctor to say they're too sick to leave right now as a stall tactic.
I wouldn't bother, and there's probably not much that can be done. Odds are that technically, they're not being deported, they're just being denied entry, and there's not much appeal from being denied entry.
Personally, I would chalk this up to experience. Rule #1 is, don't fuck with immigration. Their intentions weren't just tourism, and they entered on a tourist visa, which is fucking with immigration in a small way. There is no doubt a "right" way to go about doing what they wanted to do. Either a more appropriate visa, or a way to take the test in Israel, or whatever. They should look into that and keep their tourist visits all pleasure and no business.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:52 AM on February 4, 2006
b_thinky, cheers to you for helping your friends.
What you need is a US immigration advisor or solicitor. There's a google search for your state. You also might want to get a recommendation for an attorney from a local immigrants' rights organization. Being 100% legal is very necessary. There's no way they can work as nurses illegally.
posted by By The Grace of God at 9:31 AM on February 4, 2006
What you need is a US immigration advisor or solicitor. There's a google search for your state. You also might want to get a recommendation for an attorney from a local immigrants' rights organization. Being 100% legal is very necessary. There's no way they can work as nurses illegally.
posted by By The Grace of God at 9:31 AM on February 4, 2006
Overstaying will definitely be a bad idea, as that will nix any chance of getting legal status in the future. They could stay illegally but I doubt there are many cash-in-hand RN jobs around. Since you say your neighbour seems set on the idea of just keeping them anyway, if you don't think you can talk him out of it, then call an immigration lawyer pronto, so they can talk your neighbour down and provide advice. I'm assuming that this can be resolved in the long-term, but its already going to be harder because of this red-flag. BCIS are the worst and most difficult kind of beauracrats, I speak from experience!
posted by Joh at 11:36 AM on February 4, 2006
posted by Joh at 11:36 AM on February 4, 2006
Can they cancel their flights, get a visa for Canada/US, drive o Vancouver or Tijuana, do some sightseeing and then figure out what to do from there? Could they take the test there?
posted by acoutu at 6:12 PM on February 4, 2006
posted by acoutu at 6:12 PM on February 4, 2006
I worked overseas for the state department for a little while, in the visa section. Overstaying is one of the worst things you can do in terms of getting another visa to the US. It was a while ago, and not very long that I worked there, so I'm not sure how the US would look on them getting a quickie visa to Canada (or Mexico) and going there.
Find yourself a lawyer quickly. Looks like you're in a relatively unpopulated area. Call places in California and New York - surely someone is working this weekend and can help. Wish I had more information.
posted by lorrer at 7:26 PM on February 4, 2006
Find yourself a lawyer quickly. Looks like you're in a relatively unpopulated area. Call places in California and New York - surely someone is working this weekend and can help. Wish I had more information.
posted by lorrer at 7:26 PM on February 4, 2006
Overstaying is definitely a no-no, and the INS can be truly insane in enforcing the post-overstay ban. A close friend of mine overstayed his US visa by six weeks, and now has been refused entry and visas ever since.
And he had a good excuse for overstaying: HE WAS IN A COMA (he'd been in a car wreck two days before his scheduled departure.)
INS acknowledged that he'd been unconscious, that he'd left the US as soon as he was medically able, and that he'd properly done the paperwork explaining and providing backup to show why he'd overstayed. The US consul general in his native country attempted to help him.
None of it worked, and now he can't enter the US - which is where his ex-wife has spirited his kids (violating a custody agreement in their native country) with her new American husband.
They told him the Post 9/11 zero tolerance edicts made his situation basically non-changeable.
I know I feel safer.
posted by soulbarn at 10:11 PM on February 4, 2006
And he had a good excuse for overstaying: HE WAS IN A COMA (he'd been in a car wreck two days before his scheduled departure.)
INS acknowledged that he'd been unconscious, that he'd left the US as soon as he was medically able, and that he'd properly done the paperwork explaining and providing backup to show why he'd overstayed. The US consul general in his native country attempted to help him.
None of it worked, and now he can't enter the US - which is where his ex-wife has spirited his kids (violating a custody agreement in their native country) with her new American husband.
They told him the Post 9/11 zero tolerance edicts made his situation basically non-changeable.
I know I feel safer.
posted by soulbarn at 10:11 PM on February 4, 2006
My husband worked in an immigration law firm for years, and one of the lawyers specialized in tough deportation cases. He worked on weekends all the time.
Also, soulbarn, did you ever think of dropping your friend's coma story to your local large newspaper? Because it seems to me that his situation is the exact kind of ridiculous policy that deserves a good public mocking, and bad press might exert just enough pressure to change his situation, zero-tolerance or no.
posted by GaelFC at 10:41 PM on February 4, 2006
Also, soulbarn, did you ever think of dropping your friend's coma story to your local large newspaper? Because it seems to me that his situation is the exact kind of ridiculous policy that deserves a good public mocking, and bad press might exert just enough pressure to change his situation, zero-tolerance or no.
posted by GaelFC at 10:41 PM on February 4, 2006
The goons have their passports, right? Overstaying is one thing with your passport (and associated ability to get home at any time for any family emergency), and I know plenty of people who have done so, but with none I wouldn't chance it for a second. I really think they need to go back home.
Now if they are nurses then they are correct - their skills ARE in great demand in the U.S. These aren't day labourers we're talking about here, and I'm assuming hospitals aren't the sort of employers who will look the other way on visa issues. Presumably they can do the nurses' tests from there, or figure out a way to get sponsorship and do them.
posted by jamesonandwater at 9:33 AM on February 5, 2006
Now if they are nurses then they are correct - their skills ARE in great demand in the U.S. These aren't day labourers we're talking about here, and I'm assuming hospitals aren't the sort of employers who will look the other way on visa issues. Presumably they can do the nurses' tests from there, or figure out a way to get sponsorship and do them.
posted by jamesonandwater at 9:33 AM on February 5, 2006
No-one has the legal right to enter any country of which they are not a citizen. The border guards can make any decision they want and they don't have to offer a means of appeal.
If they do not leave according to the orders, the best case scenario is that they will not be allowed to enter the USA for 5 or 10 years. Most likely, they will never get back in.
Generally, if you want to change your status from tourist to an employment visa, you have to leave the country to apply for the new visa anyway.
posted by winston at 6:44 PM on February 5, 2006
If they do not leave according to the orders, the best case scenario is that they will not be allowed to enter the USA for 5 or 10 years. Most likely, they will never get back in.
Generally, if you want to change your status from tourist to an employment visa, you have to leave the country to apply for the new visa anyway.
posted by winston at 6:44 PM on February 5, 2006
1) What happens if they don't show up for the flight Sunday? Will the authorities come arrest them? Will my neighbors (he is a citizen, she has a green card, 3 kids are citizens) get in trouble for hosting them?
2) If they do overstay, will it be harder for them to obtain "legal" status or simply enter as tourists later on?
3) Is there anything that can be done legally to prevent or delay deportation? There was talk of getting a doctor to say they're too sick to leave right now as a stall tactic.
1) Yes, the authorities will come and arrest them, then they will be removed and barred from reentry for several years. Their host can get into trouble if they harbor them.
2) See number one.
3) No. Do not lie, it only makes the bad situation worse.
Here's the problem, a visa is not a pass to enter the US, it is a pass to attempt to enter the US. Your friends screwed up. They lied to the consulate. They said they intended to come to the US as tourists and that they would go home, but that's not true, they came here for school and a job. Their grounds for admission were that they would spend time as a tourist and go home, when they showed up and it was revealed that they did not intend to follow these grounds they were sent back.
They should file for student visas to train at a certified school or get into an H-visa training program.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:01 AM on February 14, 2006
2) If they do overstay, will it be harder for them to obtain "legal" status or simply enter as tourists later on?
3) Is there anything that can be done legally to prevent or delay deportation? There was talk of getting a doctor to say they're too sick to leave right now as a stall tactic.
1) Yes, the authorities will come and arrest them, then they will be removed and barred from reentry for several years. Their host can get into trouble if they harbor them.
2) See number one.
3) No. Do not lie, it only makes the bad situation worse.
Here's the problem, a visa is not a pass to enter the US, it is a pass to attempt to enter the US. Your friends screwed up. They lied to the consulate. They said they intended to come to the US as tourists and that they would go home, but that's not true, they came here for school and a job. Their grounds for admission were that they would spend time as a tourist and go home, when they showed up and it was revealed that they did not intend to follow these grounds they were sent back.
They should file for student visas to train at a certified school or get into an H-visa training program.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:01 AM on February 14, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
Whatever they do, the one thing that they should absolutely NOT do is overstay. It will not simply be harder for them to obtain legal status, it will be almost impossible.
posted by atrazine at 5:38 AM on February 4, 2006