Animals looking for pee in all the wrong places.
March 28, 2018 12:50 PM Subscribe
Cats and dog are peeing in the wrong places, sometimes in related ways. It is making me crazy. Please help me figure out why this is happening and a solution!
Two cats and dog both moved from an apartment where they were (mostly) doing the right thing. Cats peed in the litterbox only, no surprises. Occasionally the dog would pee in our bathrooms if the door to it was left open and he had been waiting a while, but nowhere else, and not frequently. Cats and dog largely did not interact in the other place, as it was small, cramped, and they could leap from tall thing to tall thing continuously to confound the dog. Occasionally Cat A would swipe at the dog from a cupboard and then run away, but it was not really an issue.
Moved to a two-floor place, and everything changed. Cats started peeing on the floor until litterboxes were installed on multiple floors. This seemed to solve the problem, except the cat/dog dynamic shifted and now everyone is peeing everywhere. This is horrible and is making me crazy.
The dynamic change:
Dog has always been interested in playing with cats - Cat B tolerates it and will sleep next to him and be butt-sniffed by him and sometimes licked by him. Cat B, as far as I can tell, is using litterboxes appropriately. Cat A has never been interested in it, but has previously mostly been content to avoid. However: in the new place, we are far less cluttered, and cats can't travel as easily on top of things or under things - Cat A has consequentially had complicated negative interactions with dog, and we found out that Cat A had started peeing in hidey places and other random places.
Dog peed in a place, then Cat A peed in the same place, then dog started peeing in every room where cat litter existed or cats have peed. I am at my wit's end and so stressed by this it is unbelievable. I am cleaning up pee every day on flooring that cannot be bleached and it is making me crazy.
Please help me figure out something to do to even reduce this problem slightly.
Two cats and dog both moved from an apartment where they were (mostly) doing the right thing. Cats peed in the litterbox only, no surprises. Occasionally the dog would pee in our bathrooms if the door to it was left open and he had been waiting a while, but nowhere else, and not frequently. Cats and dog largely did not interact in the other place, as it was small, cramped, and they could leap from tall thing to tall thing continuously to confound the dog. Occasionally Cat A would swipe at the dog from a cupboard and then run away, but it was not really an issue.
Moved to a two-floor place, and everything changed. Cats started peeing on the floor until litterboxes were installed on multiple floors. This seemed to solve the problem, except the cat/dog dynamic shifted and now everyone is peeing everywhere. This is horrible and is making me crazy.
The dynamic change:
Dog has always been interested in playing with cats - Cat B tolerates it and will sleep next to him and be butt-sniffed by him and sometimes licked by him. Cat B, as far as I can tell, is using litterboxes appropriately. Cat A has never been interested in it, but has previously mostly been content to avoid. However: in the new place, we are far less cluttered, and cats can't travel as easily on top of things or under things - Cat A has consequentially had complicated negative interactions with dog, and we found out that Cat A had started peeing in hidey places and other random places.
Dog peed in a place, then Cat A peed in the same place, then dog started peeing in every room where cat litter existed or cats have peed. I am at my wit's end and so stressed by this it is unbelievable. I am cleaning up pee every day on flooring that cannot be bleached and it is making me crazy.
Please help me figure out something to do to even reduce this problem slightly.
It's not bleach you want; it's Nature's Miracle, or similar product with the enzymes that get rid of the stuff the pets use for marking. Can you put up any sort of barrier the cats can get through and the dog can't? I used to have a cat and a collie mix; I cut a cat hole in a baby gate so the cat could have free access to her litter box and to the whole house, but the dog stayed in the kitchen and bathroom for more than 3 - 4 hours of us not being home. Some dogs want to be friends and that's stressful for some cats. If you can keep the dog downstairs, the cats might settle down. I also made a space for my cat's food that the dog couldn't get to.
posted by theora55 at 1:01 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 1:01 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
For the dog, keep him (literally) leashed to you. He never goes out of sight. Treat him like he's a new puppy being house trained. When you're not home, he's in a crate or a small area like a bathroom with no cats nearby. Get him into a routine asap.
For the cats, if it's possible, I'd also reduce the space they have available. Can you confine them to one floor? Get them feeling comfortable and confident in their environment.
Felliway is often recommended. It didn't help me, but lots of people like it. They're plug-in pheromones to help calm cats.
You have my sympathies - this is a horrid situation.
posted by hydra77 at 1:01 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
For the cats, if it's possible, I'd also reduce the space they have available. Can you confine them to one floor? Get them feeling comfortable and confident in their environment.
Felliway is often recommended. It didn't help me, but lots of people like it. They're plug-in pheromones to help calm cats.
You have my sympathies - this is a horrid situation.
posted by hydra77 at 1:01 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Can you put up any sort of barrier the cats can get through and the dog can't?
Problem is, the dog is a 95-pound German shepherd - he can definitely jump any baby gate I can purchase, and even without trying to jump, if he stands on his hind legs he's about five feet tall. While we have a crate, we have to be away for long enough periods of time that we can't keep him crated that long.
The rooms with litterboxes can all have the door shut to keep dog out, and they're large enough that food and water could be put somewhere separate, though.
posted by corb at 1:18 PM on March 28, 2018
Problem is, the dog is a 95-pound German shepherd - he can definitely jump any baby gate I can purchase, and even without trying to jump, if he stands on his hind legs he's about five feet tall. While we have a crate, we have to be away for long enough periods of time that we can't keep him crated that long.
The rooms with litterboxes can all have the door shut to keep dog out, and they're large enough that food and water could be put somewhere separate, though.
posted by corb at 1:18 PM on March 28, 2018
How long ago did you move? If this is still fairly new for everyone, this could pass once their territories, routines, and routes are established.
Definitely recommend Nature's Miracle for clean-up-- it breaks down the scent that communicates "pee here anytime!" that other cleaners can't get.
posted by kapers at 1:27 PM on March 28, 2018
Definitely recommend Nature's Miracle for clean-up-- it breaks down the scent that communicates "pee here anytime!" that other cleaners can't get.
posted by kapers at 1:27 PM on March 28, 2018
However: in the new place, we are far less cluttered, and cats can't travel as easily on top of things or under things
Not a perfect solution, but could you install some shelving or platforms along the walls that the cats could use to avoid the dog while moving about the house? Google 'cat wall highway' or 'cat wall bridge' for some examples.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:42 PM on March 28, 2018
Not a perfect solution, but could you install some shelving or platforms along the walls that the cats could use to avoid the dog while moving about the house? Google 'cat wall highway' or 'cat wall bridge' for some examples.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:42 PM on March 28, 2018
in the new place, we are far less cluttered, and cats can't travel as easily on top of things or under things - Cat A has consequentially had complicated negative interactions with dog, and we found out that Cat A had started peeing in hidey places and other random places.
I think most cats don't enjoy moving to new locations, and from the sound of it the new surroundings may make Cat A feel unsafe and vulnerable for the reasons you named. (After the last time we moved our old cat basically just quit using his litter box entirely, but as he was free to roam the neighbourhood he just took to doing all his business outdoors.)
So trying to reduce any stress Cat A feels about your new home could help break the vicious circle. How about installing cat walkways (basically just hanging shelves high on the walls) and maybe actually creating designated secluded, dog-free places to pee? There are lots of DIY ideas online for turning old dressers, benches and end tables into kitty toilets.
posted by sively at 1:45 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think most cats don't enjoy moving to new locations, and from the sound of it the new surroundings may make Cat A feel unsafe and vulnerable for the reasons you named. (After the last time we moved our old cat basically just quit using his litter box entirely, but as he was free to roam the neighbourhood he just took to doing all his business outdoors.)
So trying to reduce any stress Cat A feels about your new home could help break the vicious circle. How about installing cat walkways (basically just hanging shelves high on the walls) and maybe actually creating designated secluded, dog-free places to pee? There are lots of DIY ideas online for turning old dressers, benches and end tables into kitty toilets.
posted by sively at 1:45 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, until you solve the cat-dog interaction problem, you're going to get cat pee. The litter boxes need to be inaccessible to the dog and accessible by the cats without having to run a dog-gauntlet. This may involve having a Cat Floor and a Dog Floor (or just a Cat Room) or, if you own the place, installing cat doors can help a ton.
Also, your dog should know the "Leave it!" command (say Leave it!, offer a treat, dog comes and gets the treat. Repeat every time you see the dog so much as look interestedly at the cat) and keep on that until the cat is boring. This may or may not work, depending on your dog's prey drive, but if it doesn't, you're probably back to Cat Floor and Dog Floor. (I have sympathy! We're petsitting, and our house currently has one cat in the master suite, one dog and five cats loose (the dog is well-trained and puts up with being alternately glared at and licked with good grace), and one dog in my office who cannot be allowed to interact with any other creature. My office does not have outside access. The logistical problems are immensely annoying.)
posted by restless_nomad at 1:49 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also, your dog should know the "Leave it!" command (say Leave it!, offer a treat, dog comes and gets the treat. Repeat every time you see the dog so much as look interestedly at the cat) and keep on that until the cat is boring. This may or may not work, depending on your dog's prey drive, but if it doesn't, you're probably back to Cat Floor and Dog Floor. (I have sympathy! We're petsitting, and our house currently has one cat in the master suite, one dog and five cats loose (the dog is well-trained and puts up with being alternately glared at and licked with good grace), and one dog in my office who cannot be allowed to interact with any other creature. My office does not have outside access. The logistical problems are immensely annoying.)
posted by restless_nomad at 1:49 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
they make a special Pee Don't formulation for nature's miracle. my cat is a pee boy idiot so we get a lot of mileage out of Pee Don't here at the nixon dome
agree that cat-dog relations must be negotiated to improve the piss nightmare
also agree that high-walled privacy litterboxes somehow make cats less weird about peeing
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 1:54 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
agree that cat-dog relations must be negotiated to improve the piss nightmare
also agree that high-walled privacy litterboxes somehow make cats less weird about peeing
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 1:54 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Can you plug in some feliway and build them a cat super highway of cat shelves to get Cat A to calm down and feel safe?
posted by edbles at 2:20 PM on March 28, 2018
posted by edbles at 2:20 PM on March 28, 2018
Doesn't solve your problem, but:
Nature's miracle is non-negotiable, and in addition to that, get yourself a UV flashlight. Shine it around the house at night and it'll help you get a handle on any areas you may not have noticed before.
Cleaning well (with enzymes) will probably help the underlying issues, too; if they're smelling residual pee it'll turn into a whole cycle.
posted by mosst at 2:30 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Nature's miracle is non-negotiable, and in addition to that, get yourself a UV flashlight. Shine it around the house at night and it'll help you get a handle on any areas you may not have noticed before.
Cleaning well (with enzymes) will probably help the underlying issues, too; if they're smelling residual pee it'll turn into a whole cycle.
posted by mosst at 2:30 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
"Nature's miracle is non-negotiable"
Nature's Miracle seems better than most, but in my experience, neither dog nor cat pee can ever truly be eliminated from carpet once it happens. You can soak the carpet in that shit, plus whole bottles of vinegar and baking soda to boot and at the end of the day, once everything dries, that stink remains. I've resolved to never get a dog or cat until a chemical is discovered that can actually remove the smell.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:35 PM on March 28, 2018
Nature's Miracle seems better than most, but in my experience, neither dog nor cat pee can ever truly be eliminated from carpet once it happens. You can soak the carpet in that shit, plus whole bottles of vinegar and baking soda to boot and at the end of the day, once everything dries, that stink remains. I've resolved to never get a dog or cat until a chemical is discovered that can actually remove the smell.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:35 PM on March 28, 2018
Also, my parents had a lot of luck using hook and eye screws (something like this) mounted so that the door was held open maybe 6" or so - a distance that was plenty wide enough for our cats to waltz right through but too narrow for the dog. It made for a really simple way to dog-proof the litter box room, plus it kept us from accidentally closing the cats on the wrong side of the litter box door (always a plus).
posted by mosst at 2:41 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by mosst at 2:41 PM on March 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Problem is, the dog is a 95-pound German shepherd - he can definitely jump any baby gate I can purchase, and even without trying to jump, if he stands on his hind legs he's about five feet tall.
Can you do a full length door then with a hole big enough for the cats to get through but not the dog? You could either install some kind of gate door or cut a cat door in a regular door. Cats can get though very narrow spaces, and with a dog that big it’ll be easy to make a space that’s cat-accessible and not dog-accessible.
If installing a door isn’t possible, you could try to figure out a way to prop the door 5ish inches open - maybe tie it close with enough slack to open slightly, then use a doorstop to keep it open?
It’s important for the cats to feel safe using the litterbox and not need to worry that the dog will disturb them while using it.
posted by insectosaurus at 2:49 PM on March 28, 2018
Can you do a full length door then with a hole big enough for the cats to get through but not the dog? You could either install some kind of gate door or cut a cat door in a regular door. Cats can get though very narrow spaces, and with a dog that big it’ll be easy to make a space that’s cat-accessible and not dog-accessible.
If installing a door isn’t possible, you could try to figure out a way to prop the door 5ish inches open - maybe tie it close with enough slack to open slightly, then use a doorstop to keep it open?
It’s important for the cats to feel safe using the litterbox and not need to worry that the dog will disturb them while using it.
posted by insectosaurus at 2:49 PM on March 28, 2018
We have a couple of these pet gates and they work really well with our two giant-breed dogs. Note the cat door. :)
posted by Boogiechild at 3:05 PM on March 28, 2018
posted by Boogiechild at 3:05 PM on March 28, 2018
I solved keeping the dog separate from the cats by putting easy door chains on. Cats get in and out of rooms and the dog can't.
As far as the naughty weeing, I had to---uh----rip out all my carpet, Kilz the underfloor, and refloor my entire house. Sorry.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:10 PM on March 28, 2018
As far as the naughty weeing, I had to---uh----rip out all my carpet, Kilz the underfloor, and refloor my entire house. Sorry.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:10 PM on March 28, 2018
If you can install a cat door/hole in a door or two, I highly recommend this one.
I've been having issues with one of my four cats urinating in inappropriate places. We also just moved, like you, and the cats were all out of sorts because of the move and reasserting their dominance over each other, getting used to the new place, all the new sounds and people, etc.
The youngest, and the only female, was peeing in the new bathroom - my bathroom. I installed their litter boxes in two different locations: one with just a door propped open, the other behind a closed closet door with that cat hole installed in it. Something about this arrangement has calmed the feline storm and everyone is peeing where they should.
Also: the door looks tiny once installed, but my 26 pound behemoth can hunker down and crawl through it. This is actually what has likely calmed the cats down - the behemoth tends to bully the female cat. When he's hunkered down, trying to fit through the cat hole, she's off, escaping from him.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 5:48 PM on March 28, 2018
I've been having issues with one of my four cats urinating in inappropriate places. We also just moved, like you, and the cats were all out of sorts because of the move and reasserting their dominance over each other, getting used to the new place, all the new sounds and people, etc.
The youngest, and the only female, was peeing in the new bathroom - my bathroom. I installed their litter boxes in two different locations: one with just a door propped open, the other behind a closed closet door with that cat hole installed in it. Something about this arrangement has calmed the feline storm and everyone is peeing where they should.
Also: the door looks tiny once installed, but my 26 pound behemoth can hunker down and crawl through it. This is actually what has likely calmed the cats down - the behemoth tends to bully the female cat. When he's hunkered down, trying to fit through the cat hole, she's off, escaping from him.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 5:48 PM on March 28, 2018
Nature's Miracle is good, but to GoblinHoney's point there can be some residual smell that the animals can detect (especially if they are peeing on a carpet with padding underneath.) When we moved into our current apartment with four cats, there was a particular spot that I think must have been peed on by the dog of a previous tenant. After a few cycles of the cats peeing there and me cleaning it up with Nature's Miracle, I bought a big fake plant and put it over the spot. They soon lost interest in peeing there.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:51 AM on March 29, 2018
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:51 AM on March 29, 2018
Response by poster: agree that cat-dog relations must be negotiated to improve the piss nightmare
Since this or variants on this seemed to be the overwhelming advice, we now have a Room Cat - food, water, and litter box all in the same room for Cat A's safety pleasure. She has stopped peeing on things and seems pretty happy overall, has not requested to get out even once, and is acting way more normal.
This plus a generous application of enzymes has eliminated dog pee entirely. Cat B still has to run a dog gauntlet for the litter box, but since he doesn't mind the dog, it doesn't seem to be a problem for him.
Dog is still pooping in the places he previously was doing both in, but that is way, way easier to clean up because it's not actually going into cracks and doom and I have the sanity to maybe figure this out. (or you'll see another AskMe in a while, but still, a saner one)
Thank you everyone from the bottom of my heart.
posted by corb at 3:43 PM on March 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Since this or variants on this seemed to be the overwhelming advice, we now have a Room Cat - food, water, and litter box all in the same room for Cat A's safety pleasure. She has stopped peeing on things and seems pretty happy overall, has not requested to get out even once, and is acting way more normal.
This plus a generous application of enzymes has eliminated dog pee entirely. Cat B still has to run a dog gauntlet for the litter box, but since he doesn't mind the dog, it doesn't seem to be a problem for him.
Dog is still pooping in the places he previously was doing both in, but that is way, way easier to clean up because it's not actually going into cracks and doom and I have the sanity to maybe figure this out. (or you'll see another AskMe in a while, but still, a saner one)
Thank you everyone from the bottom of my heart.
posted by corb at 3:43 PM on March 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by FencingGal at 12:56 PM on March 28, 2018 [1 favorite]