Are some fruit pies easier/harder than others to make from scratch?
March 16, 2018 3:26 PM Subscribe
I'd like to expand my repertoire of desserts to include fruit pies, which are both my favorite dessert and s/th I have no experience making despite being an otherwise quite capable cook. At first glance, it seems some pies would be inherently more difficult than others to make from scratch. Lemon meringue, for example, includes the not-always-easy-to-stiffen-and-peak meringue, as well as getting the filling to gel just right. Pie made with whole fruit--apples, for example, would seem easier. What do people think? Are there better starter/first pies than others? Thanks, and happy eating!
Apples can be juicy, but I think they are one of the easiest fruit pies to start with because they are less juicy than other fruits and contain a lot of pectin, which helps the filling set up. Cranberries have a lot of pectin too so an apple cranberry pie would be a good place to start. Berries and stone fruits are more challenging, but doable.
But yes, just start with a pie you love and then make it a bunch, trying different variations and recipes. It may not always turn out but you'll start to get a feel for how to improve things. And you'll get lots of practice making crusts, which are simple but definitely require practice. :)
posted by Knicke at 3:46 PM on March 16, 2018
But yes, just start with a pie you love and then make it a bunch, trying different variations and recipes. It may not always turn out but you'll start to get a feel for how to improve things. And you'll get lots of practice making crusts, which are simple but definitely require practice. :)
posted by Knicke at 3:46 PM on March 16, 2018
Key lime pie is so easy, the original recipe didn't even need an oven—and it tastes great too!
posted by infinitewindow at 3:50 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by infinitewindow at 3:50 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think pumpkin pies are free from tricky parts. Apple pie tends to set up well and really reads as a classic pie. If you do a streusel crust, you can avoid some of the fiddly parts of pie tops. Any pie that contains berries has a danger of becoming a soupy mess. I’ve made enough mistakes to know when to be suspicious of a recipe, but if you are looking up recipes online, read reviews.
posted by advicepig at 4:01 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by advicepig at 4:01 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
OP, absolutely. And I agree that the crust is key here and what makes a pie 'great'. Getting the from-scratch crust right is always the hardest part for me and only sometimes worth the effort. A simple compote can be made of almost any fruit - especially cherries, berries, and peaches - in about 20 minutes and works great as a pie filling. A bit of extra reduction, some tweaks like ginger or citrus, and add the thickener. No worries about pie soup.
I'll also say go with apple unless you have a favorite. Another plus is there are also a few variations to try - with top crust, with no top crust (like a tart), or dutch apple pie with the sugar crumbles. My own apple pie 'secret' is dried cranberries - they add good flavor as above but also absorb extra liquid.
posted by anti social order at 4:13 PM on March 16, 2018
I'll also say go with apple unless you have a favorite. Another plus is there are also a few variations to try - with top crust, with no top crust (like a tart), or dutch apple pie with the sugar crumbles. My own apple pie 'secret' is dried cranberries - they add good flavor as above but also absorb extra liquid.
posted by anti social order at 4:13 PM on March 16, 2018
The best starter pie is the type of pie you / your family / your friends / your neighbours love the most, so that you're happy making it a bunch of times and then eating it and sharing it. (The simplest pie I've ever made is this one, though it's dried fruit and may be stretching your definition a bit.)
Think about your current cooking skillset when deciding how to approach this: are you experienced with custard? Do you like learning semi-fiddly stuff, like how to work with meringue? Are you already good at making and rolling out and cutting dough? Do you love looking at pictures of elaborately-crafted lattice-crust pies, and is that something you'd like to practice a bunch?
You may already have a crust recipe you're working with, but I can vouch for this one if you don't. It's delicious, simple, and easy to work with despite being all-butter.
posted by halation at 4:18 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Think about your current cooking skillset when deciding how to approach this: are you experienced with custard? Do you like learning semi-fiddly stuff, like how to work with meringue? Are you already good at making and rolling out and cutting dough? Do you love looking at pictures of elaborately-crafted lattice-crust pies, and is that something you'd like to practice a bunch?
You may already have a crust recipe you're working with, but I can vouch for this one if you don't. It's delicious, simple, and easy to work with despite being all-butter.
posted by halation at 4:18 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
See, I find apple pies to be difficult because they seem to take way longer to bake through then they "should" according to every recipe I've ever seen. And an underbaked apple pie is a sad, liquidy pie.
For me, custard pies like lemon meringue or key lime are way way easier because it's pretty obvious when they are cooked.
posted by muddgirl at 5:08 PM on March 16, 2018
For me, custard pies like lemon meringue or key lime are way way easier because it's pretty obvious when they are cooked.
posted by muddgirl at 5:08 PM on March 16, 2018
I think apple is on the difficult side because you have to peel and core and slice all of the apples, and the fruit chunk size affects baking time, etc. etc.
The absolute simplest pie I make is chocolate cream — that is to say, the kind where the filling is literally Jell-O Instant Pudding with whipped cream on top.
posted by Andrhia at 5:16 PM on March 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
The absolute simplest pie I make is chocolate cream — that is to say, the kind where the filling is literally Jell-O Instant Pudding with whipped cream on top.
posted by Andrhia at 5:16 PM on March 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think pumpkin is among the easiest. No pectin/gelling variables.
A good idea would be to use a Cook's Illustrated recipe, as they are tested so thoroughly as to be really foolproof if you do Exactly What They Say.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:34 PM on March 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
A good idea would be to use a Cook's Illustrated recipe, as they are tested so thoroughly as to be really foolproof if you do Exactly What They Say.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:34 PM on March 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
My go-to apple pie doesn't peel the apples, but I slice them really thin -- about a millimeter -- so (a) the slices cook evenly (b) the peels aren't too big to cut with the side of a fork. Bit more flavor, and I think there's setting-up pectin in the peels.
I think the easiest pies are the mixed frozen berry one from Rose Levy Berenbaum's pie bible, thickened with tapioca flour, or pumpkin pie made from canned pumpkin and sweetened condensed milk.
Start with your favorite to eat, and *take notes* about what was hard, whether it was too liquid or took longer to cook than the recipe said, etc etc.
posted by clew at 5:35 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think the easiest pies are the mixed frozen berry one from Rose Levy Berenbaum's pie bible, thickened with tapioca flour, or pumpkin pie made from canned pumpkin and sweetened condensed milk.
Start with your favorite to eat, and *take notes* about what was hard, whether it was too liquid or took longer to cook than the recipe said, etc etc.
posted by clew at 5:35 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
One way to ensure that you don't have a soggy bottom crust is to use a glass pie plate. You will get better browning on the bottom crust that way.
posted by nolnacs at 5:47 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by nolnacs at 5:47 PM on March 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
One way to ensure that you don't have a soggy bottom crust is to use a glass pie plate. You will get better browning on the bottom crust that way.
Or put a cookie sheet in the oven when the oven is preheating, and put the pie plate on the cookie sheet when you put it in. The heat from the cookie sheet will help cook the bottom crust quickly, so it doesn't get soggy.
posted by suelac at 6:13 PM on March 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Or put a cookie sheet in the oven when the oven is preheating, and put the pie plate on the cookie sheet when you put it in. The heat from the cookie sheet will help cook the bottom crust quickly, so it doesn't get soggy.
posted by suelac at 6:13 PM on March 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
An added bonus with the cookie sheet is that if the juices boil over, it's easier to clean a cookie sheet than the floor of your oven.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:16 PM on March 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:16 PM on March 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Blueberry pie and cherry pie are soooooo good and soooo easy. And so many variations to play with! (Bourbon cherry pie anyone?)
For both I usually use frozen fruit because it’s packaged at its most ripe so is more flavorful. It all gets broken down anyway while baking. I make the filling on the stovetop and blind bake the crust to keep it from getting soggy, then pour in the filling to let it finish. You don’t need to do a top crust, but can if you want to!
And you can get as “difficult” as you want. The hardest pie I ever made was a brandied Chestnut pumpkin pie, totally from scratch. Pie crust can be tricky, but I once got a great recommendation for vodka pie crust which I make in the blender and is super simple and flaky and delicious. Then I had to roast the chestnuts, let them cool, peel them (wtf so sharp!), mash them into a paste, and layer the paste in the bottom of the crust. Plus I used a pie pumpkin instead of canned. The baking itself was the east part, but the pie took half a day to make. Compared to mixing a can of pumpkin with some condensed milk and spices and a store bought pie crust? Piece of cake.
posted by DoubleLune at 6:33 PM on March 16, 2018
For both I usually use frozen fruit because it’s packaged at its most ripe so is more flavorful. It all gets broken down anyway while baking. I make the filling on the stovetop and blind bake the crust to keep it from getting soggy, then pour in the filling to let it finish. You don’t need to do a top crust, but can if you want to!
And you can get as “difficult” as you want. The hardest pie I ever made was a brandied Chestnut pumpkin pie, totally from scratch. Pie crust can be tricky, but I once got a great recommendation for vodka pie crust which I make in the blender and is super simple and flaky and delicious. Then I had to roast the chestnuts, let them cool, peel them (wtf so sharp!), mash them into a paste, and layer the paste in the bottom of the crust. Plus I used a pie pumpkin instead of canned. The baking itself was the east part, but the pie took half a day to make. Compared to mixing a can of pumpkin with some condensed milk and spices and a store bought pie crust? Piece of cake.
posted by DoubleLune at 6:33 PM on March 16, 2018
I think of lemon meringue and key lime as "starter pies", because they call for prebaked (so, not soggy) crusts. But I've never had any trouble with the egg whites. Do you add cream of tarter when beating the egg whites?
posted by she's not there at 11:16 PM on March 16, 2018
posted by she's not there at 11:16 PM on March 16, 2018
I've never found apple pie to be terribly difficult. A bit fiddly with the peeling and slicing, but not hard. Put a tablespoon of flour in with the apples (along with sugar and cinnamon and any other spices you are using) and that helps soak up the juices. There's also a gorgeous Ohio lemon pie (from Joy of Cooking) which uses the whole lemon, well, bar the pips, and is just gorgeous. Let me know if you want the recipe. I find pies where you have to blind bake the crust to be a pain, so YM clearly V.
I think the secret to a really good pie is in the crust. I think all butter is best - it certainly tastes the nicest - and my top tip here is one I got from an ex-colleague who used to be a caterer: freeze your butter and then grate it into the flour on a cheese grater. It gets a little bit tricky at the end where you've been holding the butter, but it is still vastly easier than the nonsense with two forks or a pastry cutter.
posted by Athanassiel at 7:12 AM on March 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think the secret to a really good pie is in the crust. I think all butter is best - it certainly tastes the nicest - and my top tip here is one I got from an ex-colleague who used to be a caterer: freeze your butter and then grate it into the flour on a cheese grater. It gets a little bit tricky at the end where you've been holding the butter, but it is still vastly easier than the nonsense with two forks or a pastry cutter.
posted by Athanassiel at 7:12 AM on March 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
This thread is nothing without recipes....Honestly, I mostly use the recipes in the Joy of Cooking. I usually do half-butter, half-cream cheese crust. I cut the butter into cubes and then freeze it for a while while I get everything else ready. I usually use a pastry blender, which I also freeze for a while before I get started, but I typically abandon it halfway through and just rub the butter and cream cheese into the flour with my hands. I've heard about the grater trick that Athanassiel describes, and that sounds worth trying.
My sense is that crust is a lot easier if you have a food processor. I don't, and it is a little tricky to get the hang of it by hand. I don't think that a non-perfect pie crust is a tragedy, so the thing to do is just to keep making pies until you get good at it. Homemade pie is going to be delicious even if it doesn't have the flakiest crust ever.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:41 AM on March 17, 2018
Comments:
Pie crust - I've had two different kinds of gadgets to keep me from rolling the crust too thin.
Search "pie crust rings". Mix the dough first, before preparing the filling, cover it, and put it in the refrigerator this will let the moisture get distributed with a minimum of mixing. I usually roll pie crust on wax paper. And I've gone back to using box mixes (Betty Crocker or Pillsbury) because my from-scratch crusts were almost as good but never better. My solution to a soggy bottom crust is "that's the way it is."
All pies: taste the fruit as you go and adjust the sugar content. If the pie turns out a bit tart, serve it with whipped cream or ice cream. And, if you plan to serve it a la mode, don't make the pie too sweet. Pro chefs and commercial kitchens like to paint crust with an egg wash which can give a dark brown, pretzel-like color to the finished product. I don't care for that, and it's entirely optional. I sprinkle apple and blueberry pies with cinnamon sugar.
Apple pie: There are lots of kinds of apples and some make better pies than others. In my store, apples good for pie are marked. The week before the pie, take note of what's available and look them up. I tend to go for the old New England favorites because I'm old and of New England stock. Fancy recipes sometimes call for a mix of apples varieties. As you slice the apples, mix them with a little lemon juice to keep them from going brown. I also use half brown sugar and put that it early so I can't tell if the apples are browning. You can find a recipe where the filling is cooked in pan and put in a pre-baked crust which may work better if you choose to become obsessive about the bottom crust.
Blueberry pie: I use the recipe from Joy of Cooking which uses Instant Tapioca rather than cornstarch for thickening. It controls the liquidity without making gummy as cornstarch can. I rinse the berries using two bowls so I can move the berries back and forth, changing the water as I go. Until a few years ago, berries were usually sandy, but not so much recently. Perhaps standards have changed. Sometimes you get a lot of dark flakes in the water. Those are dried out flower petals, and are innocuous.
Cherry pie: Calls for a pitter. We have a version of the Progressive International Multiple Cherry Pitter. It's much faster than a one-cherry-at-a-time pitter and gets almost every pit. Have a system for making sure you get all the pits. There are different kinds of cherries so make sure that your recipe matches your cherries.
Peach pie: I've never had a peach pie that I thought was a roaring success, plus I have not had a really good peach from a grocery store in years. I would not make peach pie unless I had a superior source of fruit. Otherwise, I'd go for peach cobbler made with canned peaches, which sounds like a very 1950s thing to do, and maybe that's what my mother served us back then, so I have an excuse.
I bake my pies in a convection oven, not because it's convection, but because it has an easy-to-use timer. If you fill your pie full, it may well boil over. I put foil underneath.
posted by SemiSalt at 9:08 AM on March 17, 2018
Pie crust - I've had two different kinds of gadgets to keep me from rolling the crust too thin.
Search "pie crust rings". Mix the dough first, before preparing the filling, cover it, and put it in the refrigerator this will let the moisture get distributed with a minimum of mixing. I usually roll pie crust on wax paper. And I've gone back to using box mixes (Betty Crocker or Pillsbury) because my from-scratch crusts were almost as good but never better. My solution to a soggy bottom crust is "that's the way it is."
All pies: taste the fruit as you go and adjust the sugar content. If the pie turns out a bit tart, serve it with whipped cream or ice cream. And, if you plan to serve it a la mode, don't make the pie too sweet. Pro chefs and commercial kitchens like to paint crust with an egg wash which can give a dark brown, pretzel-like color to the finished product. I don't care for that, and it's entirely optional. I sprinkle apple and blueberry pies with cinnamon sugar.
Apple pie: There are lots of kinds of apples and some make better pies than others. In my store, apples good for pie are marked. The week before the pie, take note of what's available and look them up. I tend to go for the old New England favorites because I'm old and of New England stock. Fancy recipes sometimes call for a mix of apples varieties. As you slice the apples, mix them with a little lemon juice to keep them from going brown. I also use half brown sugar and put that it early so I can't tell if the apples are browning. You can find a recipe where the filling is cooked in pan and put in a pre-baked crust which may work better if you choose to become obsessive about the bottom crust.
Blueberry pie: I use the recipe from Joy of Cooking which uses Instant Tapioca rather than cornstarch for thickening. It controls the liquidity without making gummy as cornstarch can. I rinse the berries using two bowls so I can move the berries back and forth, changing the water as I go. Until a few years ago, berries were usually sandy, but not so much recently. Perhaps standards have changed. Sometimes you get a lot of dark flakes in the water. Those are dried out flower petals, and are innocuous.
Cherry pie: Calls for a pitter. We have a version of the Progressive International Multiple Cherry Pitter. It's much faster than a one-cherry-at-a-time pitter and gets almost every pit. Have a system for making sure you get all the pits. There are different kinds of cherries so make sure that your recipe matches your cherries.
Peach pie: I've never had a peach pie that I thought was a roaring success, plus I have not had a really good peach from a grocery store in years. I would not make peach pie unless I had a superior source of fruit. Otherwise, I'd go for peach cobbler made with canned peaches, which sounds like a very 1950s thing to do, and maybe that's what my mother served us back then, so I have an excuse.
I bake my pies in a convection oven, not because it's convection, but because it has an easy-to-use timer. If you fill your pie full, it may well boil over. I put foil underneath.
posted by SemiSalt at 9:08 AM on March 17, 2018
And one more thing: apple pie recipes usually call for putting pats of butter on the apples before topping the pie with the crust. I omit it, and no one has ever complained my home-made apple pie isn't buttery enough.
posted by SemiSalt at 9:15 AM on March 17, 2018
posted by SemiSalt at 9:15 AM on March 17, 2018
I agree with muddgirl: apple pies (and berry pies) just take longer to bake than recipes say they will. The juices should be thickly bubbling through the vents. I've had the baking take as long as 2 hours, and I felt nervous about leaving that pie in the oven for so long, but it was the right call. (With a foil hat over the rim to keep the crust from burning.)
As for crust: I spent years making fiddly, unreliable crusts before I figured out my current routine, which never fails (uh oh, now I'm tempting fate). Here it is:
* Measure 12 oz. flour with a kitchen scale. Add 1 tsp. salt.
* Cut in 4 oz. cold butter + 4 oz. shortening (again, weighed with the scale). I use one hand to make strokes with a pizza cutter while the other hand turns the bowl. Stop when mixture is crumby.
* Measure 4 oz. water and mix just until everything is moistened. Quickly gather dough into a ball with one hand and put it in the fridge for half an hour.
* Take ball of dough from fridge and separate into two lumps. Put a lump on silicone mat, flour both sides, roll out (flouring more as needed to prevent sticking). Fold in quarters, transfer to pie plate, unfold. Trim edges. Return to fridge. Repeat with second lump for another pie or a top crust.
* (The most delicious part) Take the trimmed scraps of dough and dredge them in sugar. Bake ~15 minutes, just until the dough is golden-brown and the sugar has begun to caramelize (but not burn). These "pie crust cookies" are the best part of baking a pie.
posted by aws17576 at 9:28 AM on March 17, 2018
As for crust: I spent years making fiddly, unreliable crusts before I figured out my current routine, which never fails (uh oh, now I'm tempting fate). Here it is:
* Measure 12 oz. flour with a kitchen scale. Add 1 tsp. salt.
* Cut in 4 oz. cold butter + 4 oz. shortening (again, weighed with the scale). I use one hand to make strokes with a pizza cutter while the other hand turns the bowl. Stop when mixture is crumby.
* Measure 4 oz. water and mix just until everything is moistened. Quickly gather dough into a ball with one hand and put it in the fridge for half an hour.
* Take ball of dough from fridge and separate into two lumps. Put a lump on silicone mat, flour both sides, roll out (flouring more as needed to prevent sticking). Fold in quarters, transfer to pie plate, unfold. Trim edges. Return to fridge. Repeat with second lump for another pie or a top crust.
* (The most delicious part) Take the trimmed scraps of dough and dredge them in sugar. Bake ~15 minutes, just until the dough is golden-brown and the sugar has begun to caramelize (but not burn). These "pie crust cookies" are the best part of baking a pie.
posted by aws17576 at 9:28 AM on March 17, 2018
Adding flour to the apple filling only helps if the filling actually gets hot enough for long enough to thicken. Otherwise now you have an underbaked, liquidy filling that tastes like flour. I think the problem for me (when I was a beginning baker) is that most glass pie pans sold in stores are "deep dish" pie pans which just plain take longer. So it will start to thickly bubble on the edges and appear "done" but it needs to be bubbling out of the center vent, and it needs to bubble for a good long while. That's why I think open-faced pies are the easiest.
posted by muddgirl at 10:18 AM on March 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 10:18 AM on March 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
Berenbaum has one freeze the unfilled bottom crust before adding the filling and the top crust and popping it in the oven. Helps with keeping the bottom crust crisp and flaky (I would love to see the thermodynamic explanation). Putting a cookie sheet underneath makes it soggier for me! (Oven differences?)
Helpful trick for making pretty crust decorations on berry or pumpkin pies: form and bake them separately on a cookie sheet. You can make 3D ones over bits of tinfoil, and make more than you actually need and use the prettiest ones, and they won't steam as the filling cooks off or sink into the liquid or get stained by bubbling and you don't have to tent the pie to keep the crust from burning while the rest finishes. I often put the pies in, and then fuss about with pretty crust, and bake the crust on an upper rack so it serves as a tent itself.
Pinterest shows me a lot of spectacular top crusts *before baking*, and I am very curious how they survive the actual cooking.
posted by clew at 11:49 AM on March 17, 2018
Helpful trick for making pretty crust decorations on berry or pumpkin pies: form and bake them separately on a cookie sheet. You can make 3D ones over bits of tinfoil, and make more than you actually need and use the prettiest ones, and they won't steam as the filling cooks off or sink into the liquid or get stained by bubbling and you don't have to tent the pie to keep the crust from burning while the rest finishes. I often put the pies in, and then fuss about with pretty crust, and bake the crust on an upper rack so it serves as a tent itself.
Pinterest shows me a lot of spectacular top crusts *before baking*, and I am very curious how they survive the actual cooking.
posted by clew at 11:49 AM on March 17, 2018
Lemon and Key Lime are so much easier to make then fruit pies. Your concern about "gelling" the filling isn't really a problem if you follow the ratios in a good recipe. It is about as foolproof as baking can get. Fruit pies on the other hand have variability due to the variable nature of the moisture in the fruit. Also the size of the cut pieces of fruit makes a difference in the texture of the end result.
As far as making meringue goes, it too isn't a problem if you have a good mixer. They will beat your egg whites into submission.
Lastly, with a key lime pie, making a scratch graham cracker crust is not only doable, it is delicious and not hard to do right. Compare that to making homemade pie dough and you'll see it is a lot more steps and more error prone for the novice.
Happy baking!
posted by mmascolino at 6:24 PM on March 17, 2018
As far as making meringue goes, it too isn't a problem if you have a good mixer. They will beat your egg whites into submission.
Lastly, with a key lime pie, making a scratch graham cracker crust is not only doable, it is delicious and not hard to do right. Compare that to making homemade pie dough and you'll see it is a lot more steps and more error prone for the novice.
Happy baking!
posted by mmascolino at 6:24 PM on March 17, 2018
When using fruit like plums, peaches etc that can produce a lot of juice, cook the fruit 1st, and then add the cooked fruit to the pie [sans juice]. Making a pie with the raw fruit will result in all that liquid inside the crust which is not ideal.
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:13 PM on March 22, 2018
posted by HiroProtagonist at 7:13 PM on March 22, 2018
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I've found key lime to be pretty foolproof. Meringue could be a bit of a pain, but I just put whipped cream on top of my key lime pie, which also hides any imperfections. But honestly, even imperfect pie is going to be fine, and I would just start with your favorite kind.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:37 PM on March 16, 2018 [2 favorites]